Which Archetype has the best "Coolness" factor, and more

[Hermit]

Yes, this is inspired by another thread about mystics and mentalists :)

I'm going with the 'official' archetypes, because most of us at least know what we mean by that, and its a common ground.
However, in case you need a refersher...
Brick
Energy Projector
Gadgeteer
Martial Artist
Mentalist
Metamorph
Mystic
Patriot
Powered Armor
Speedster
Weapon Master


So, very generally speaking: which archetype has the best
1) Coolness factor?
2) Sex appeal?
3) Trust ? (Understated, but let's face it, an important side effect in how you fight crime is how you're trusted by the public)

[Kevin]

The Patriot has the biggest trust factor.

As far as cool and sex appeal, In many ways it depends more on character than power framework.

Mentalists, metamorphs, and mystics tend to get the least trust because much of their mystique centers on mystery and to a certain extent deception.

[Tae Kwon Dan]

1)Coolness - I would probably go with the Martial Artist on that one. Followed closely by the Gadgeteer and that's only so I can mix the two and get Batman who is still teh r0XX3r.

2)Sex Appeal - I would think this is more a function of costume than archetype.

3)Trust - I think in comic history it's always like folks trust the Brick for some reason. There's something about being big and strong that instills confidence in folks. Unless of course you're a Mentalist and just make them trust you. ;)

[BishopofB&W]

Coolness: I'm torn between gadgeteer and speedster.
Sex Appeal: Martial Artist(they're so flexible!) or mystic(he's so mysterious!)
Trust: The Brick. Joe Average made larger than life.

[Blue]

Coolness eh?

For me, cool characters are the ones achieving more with less ability. Obviously that's not an archetype. So back to the list...

Mystic or Weapon Master.

I make a lot of characters that depend on minor mystical abilities to enhance their other powers. Martial artists with small enchantments, that sort of thing. I like that mystic edge to a character.

Weapon Master's are cool in that they are generally normal guys who walk into a room filled with guys who have native powers, big suits of armor, magic, etc. and they make the challenge.

[Kristopher]

There's such a wide variety of characters in each archetype. I don't think it breaks down very easily. I can't even pick out a character for each of the three, because different writers do wildly different things with them. I can't even say I have a favorite comic character, because some shlep inevitably comes along, does a run on the book, and screws the character up for me.

[Crimson Arrow]

It is a bit difficult because even within archetypes there can be a huge spread. However...

1) Coolness. I agree with Blue that someone who achieves a lot with only dedication and training could be perceived as "cooler" than some guy who happened to be born on a weird planet, or fell into the right vat of chemicals. I'd say Martial Artist or Weapon Master, though. They also often have a disciplined attitude, so they aren't easily scared or impressed, again adding the the cool factor.

2) Sex Appeal. Impossible to really say as this partially depends on the character him/herself and partly on what the other party likes. For example, if a lady likes a sense of humour, she might go for Plastic Man (although I am not sure that's the type of humour women necessarily go for). If she likes dark, brooding types, it might be Batman. If she prefers a real blue-eyed, blue-collar type hunk, it could be Captain America (yes I know he's an artist, not really blue-collar, but he's the "All-American" type isn't he?).

Being more than a little crude, a stretchy-type metamorph or one with Growth (in small doses), could be very popular. Actually, a stretchy guy who can change his appearance, alter his, er, dimensions (I mean to appear hunky, get your mind out of the gutter) and has a great sense of humour might win in all departments.

Martial Artists and Weapon Masters might be very fit and controlled, but they are so dedicated, they might not appeal to ladies, maybe even appearing uptight and obsessed by violence. Mind you, no one ever told that to Ollie Queen's ladies.

3) Trust. I'd go with Patriots and Bricks. Patriots are idealists and often very good people (although theoretically some types of Patriot could be evil). Bricks have very up-front powers. What you see is what you get, plus who doesn't like a hero with a "safe pair of hands"?

[Houston GM]

Brick
Coolness: B+. Strong and tough are cool, but the "all brawn / no brain" reputation detracts a bit.

Sex Appeal: B/D. Women like a man that makes them feel petite and delicate. This may wear a little thin when he cracks your ribs giving you a warm hug. Men do not prefer women who make them feel small and delicate.

Trust: C. To many bricks end up as thugs for them to be wholeheartedly trusted. Even the heroes can cause collateral damage by breathing heavily. The smarter bricks can work their way into the public trust, however.

Energy Projector
Coolness: B. They're flashy and impressive. Power pulses through their veins.

Sex Appeal: B-. They're the kings of the skin-tight costumes. The inherent risk has an appeal ... until it becomes immediately life threatening.

Trust: C-. They're easy to understand, which the public likes. But they lose their temper and start blowing things up.

Gadgeteer
Coolness: D. Too many of these guys were the introverts who spent most of their time talking to inanimate objects.

Sex Appeal: D. I think he built himself a gadget to take care of those urges.

Trust: B. These are the "normal blokes" who keep an eye on those "freaky mutants". If it wasn't for the occasional doomsday device (or experiment gone wrong), these guys would be ranked 'A'.

Martial Artist
Coolness: A. These are the real people who have the courage to go toe-to-toe with supers. And they have the skill to win too.

Sex Appeal: A. They've spent a lifetime getting an incredible physique. Unless they've been horribly scarred in the process, they're the ones you want to be with. And their level of discipline usually means they're not hopping from bed to bed. Nobody wants sloppy seconds.

Trust: A. These are also "normal people" who are keeping the neighborhood safe from all the freaks.

Mentalist
Coolness: D. Mentalists are only cool in a creepy sort of way. People like the idea of being able to see into other people's minds, but they don't like it if the situation is reversed.

Sex Appeal: D. Mentalists can take intimacy a step further than it should go.

Trust: F. If they trust you, they won't kill you on sight. That's about as much trust as you're going to get.

Metamorph
Coolness: B. Turning into some things (wolves, sports cars, pillars of fire) is cool. Turning into other things (fish, toaster ovens, mud puddles) is not so cool.

Sex Appeal: C. Sure, they can look like the man/woman of your dreams ... but what if they're really a man or an amorphous blob looking like the woman of your dreams (or vice versa)? That's not nearly as sexy.

Trust: F. They can sneak around and spy on you. They can pretend to be your best friend and learn your secrets. They can sleep with your girlfriend, and she might not notice the difference.

Mystic
Coolness: A. They're dark and mysterious. They know secrets that other people don't. They have power.

Sex Appeal: A. They have mystery, danger, and most have a fabulous wardrobe to back it up.

Trust: D. Communing with dark powers and demons from beyond the pale may be cool, but nobody wants it happening next door.

Patriot
Coolness: D. They stand up and support the government. They obey the law. They are so uncool.

Sex Appeal: D. They're safe. They're the kind of date your mother would approve of. Who wants to date a square?

Trust: A. They have a mission to protect the people. They're accountable.

Powered Armor
Coolness: B. They may not be powerful on their own, but they're cool just like a sports car or a jet fighter.

Sex Appeal: A-. All the sex appeal of a sports car, and the mystery of wondering what he/she really looks like in there. But there's that nagging question whether someone is "compensating" for something.

Trust: A-. They're also seen as normal people who stand up to the mutants and freaks. While they do have potential to cause destruction, you can always sue them for everything they own (like their powered armor).

Speedster
Coolness: B. These are the king of the smart-alecs. They excel at making their opponents look slow, clumsy, and foolish. Wisecracks may be cool, but only up to a point.

Sex Appeal: F. No one wants a man who is going to take them on a "minute waltz", or a woman who will look up and say "Would you hurry up and finish already."

Trust: B+. They're not destructive. Many run around helping people out in their spare time. This compensates for their flighty nature.

Weapon Master
Coolness: A-. They're respected for the same reasons that martial artists are.

Sex Appeal: B. They have the benefits of martial artists, but weapons sometimes cross the line from "dangerous" to "threatening".

Trust: B. They're normal folks standing up for the rest of us, but some of them are clearly violating weapon laws.

---------------------------------------------

These are just generalizations. Never underestimate the power of a pretty face, a cool costume, a sexy accent, and lots of money.

[Bartman]

Well done Houston. Logical, well thought out, and complete.

[Hermit]

Originally posted by Bartman
Well done Houston. Logical, well thought out, and complete.

Got to second that, though I might disagree on a few of them, it was well done.

[Rene]

Cool thread, and Houston's answer was cool too. But I think coolness, sex appeal, and trust have more to do with the character's personality, history, and style.

It's true that certain sets of powers seem to influence the character's personality and style to a degree, though. And there is also comic book tradition.

I'm saying the obvious here, but 99.9% of comic book superheroines have A+ in sex appeal. :p Is there anyone with COM lower than 18?

[Bartman]

Originally posted by Rene
I'm saying the obvious here, but 99.9% of comic book superheroines have A+ in sex appeal. :p Is there anyone with COM lower than 18?

I'd say most of them. Frankly top-heavy has never been my prefered body form.

[Kristopher]

The artists need to take a look at real female athletes and martial-artists for inspiration for more of the female characters.

[Blue]

Originally posted by Kristopher
The artists need to take a look at real female athletes and martial-artists for inspiration for more of the female characters. Living up to your title there, Kristopher.

Forget realism. These are comics.

[Kristopher]

There's also the fact that I find Mia Hamm, or Michelle Yeoh, or Yancy Butler far more attractive than the typical supermodel or blonde busty ditz -- or the spandex-busting art that many comic-book artists seem incapable of deviating from.

If they want some female characters to defy gravity and have the unspoken power of superhuman balance and spinal column, that's OK I guess. But what about a little variety? Is it that they're so limited artisticly that they can't do anything else, or are they like the drooling fanboys of stereotype?

[Blue]

Mmmmmmm. Hamm. [drool]

[phydaux]

Originally posted by Kristopher
The artists need to take a look at real female athletes and martial-artists for inspiration for more of the female characters.

Yeah that's just what comics need - female characters with thick waists, muscular thighs, flat butts and so little body fat they don't even need bras.

Brother, if it aint broke, don't go FIXIN' it.

[phydaux]

Originally posted by Blue
Mmmmmmm. Hamm. [drool]

Damn it, Blue! You made me spit out my soda! And I'm all out!

Now I have to go to the store...

[Chuckg]

Michelle Yeoh and Victoria Smurfit, to name just two examples, would beg to differ.

[Kristopher]

Originally posted by phydaux
Yeah that's just what comics need - female characters with thick waists, muscular thighs, flat butts and so little body fat they don't even need bras.

Brother, if it aint broke, don't go FIXIN' it.

Well, if that's the image of the typical athletic female you have in your head, I'm not sure where to go from here.

Of course, I've never understood the appeal of the ghetto booty either...

[WhammeWhamme]

Originally posted by Kristopher
The artists need to take a look at real female athletes and martial-artists for inspiration for more of the female characters.

As soon as the movies, novels and television lead the way I'll be all for it.

[Mutant for Hire]

To some extent sexiness and cool is more a matter of packaging than powers. Let us take the mystic archetype. On one end you have folks like Doctor Fate and Doctor Strange, who really don't rate high on the sexy meter or the cool meter. Then you have the Trenchcoat Brigade and Zatanna on the other end of the matter. Admittedly, John Constantine isn't exactly a superhero, but he is a magician, and while some might debate the trenchcoat isn't exactly a proper superhero costume, it's been a staple of the mystic end of the superhero business.

Likewise if you look at mentalists, on one end you have Charles Xavier, and on the other end you have Psylocke. Creating a cool male mentalist shouldn't be that impossible. It's really a matter of styling when you get down to it. We could probably go through archetype after archetype and create cool/sexy or uncool/unsexy. In most cases you could probably find actual examples of each.

And of course there's also fashion and public awareness. Martial arts were sort of a ghetto thing back in the seventies and in the sixties they were non-existance. They started slowly entering the public consciousness during the eighties (the Age of Ninjas), and now thanks to all these martial arts movies from Hong Kong and inspired by Hong Kong (Matrix, et al) you've got martial arts being fashionable and cool in superhero comics, even though effectively most superheroes were trained martial artists from the beginning (at least if you're Batman).

Trust is a more interesting issue. I'd tend to phrase it the opposite way. There are three sorts of powers that tend to scare the crap out of people. They are information gathering powers, misinformation producing powers and manipulation powers. Information gathering powers are primarily telepathy and clairvoyance, though precognatives fall into that category as well. People who know things that other people don't want them to know. Everyone is afraid of people who can find out their secrets or know things no one should be able to know. The second category covers shapeshifters, illusionists and people who can tamper with memories. People don't like being able not to trust their memories and senses. The last category is mind control, though people who can transform other people, even things can make people twitch.

In all other cases, it's more a matter of personality and attitude. I'll give a simple example. Captain America versus Batman. Strip away Cap's shield and Batman's utility belt and they're more or less both brilliantly trained hand to hand fighters. And it isn't Batman's utility belt that makes him somewhat less than embraced by others, and Cap's shield isn't the reason for his trust and popularity. Superman and the Hulk are both bricks, but there's a wide degree of difference between the two of them in terms of public perception and trust.

So to sum up, I don't consider most archetypes to be inherently sexy or unsexy, cool or uncool, it's all a matter of packaging. As for trust, there are some archetypes, or more precisely powersets that tend to make people afraid. As for the others, there is more potential for trust in general, though in the end, anyone can be untrustworthy.

[Hermit]

Sorry guys, I didn't mean to imply that Coolness, Sex appeal, and trust was based entirely, or even major league on archetypes; just that archetypes were simple ways to break it down, and therefore easy to try (however inaccuately).

Naturally, we could scrap the archetypes all together and talk about what makes those qualities shine most, but that's almost too OPEN a field ;)

[RevHooligan]

Has no one seen the irony of asking a forum of GAMERS what is cool and sexy?

I can ask my girlfriend about it. She's from Canada. You wouldn't know her.

[Lord Liaden]

Originally posted by Mutant for Hire
On one end you have folks like Doctor Fate and Doctor Strange, who really don't rate high on the sexy meter or the cool meter.

Wholly subjective, of course, but I know people who would rate Doctor Strange high on both. He's powerful, mysterious, elegant, with a dapper mustache and distinguished grey at the temples. Not to mention a great pad and stylin' wardrobe.

[Lord Liaden]

Originally posted by RevHooligan
Has no one seen the irony of asking a forum of GAMERS what is cool and sexy?

I can ask my girlfriend about it. She's from Canada. You wouldn't know her.

If you have a girlfriend, you're already ahead of many gamers in cool and sexy. :rolleyes:

[zornwil]

Just my gut feels, bearing in mind these are all the hero versions:

Brick - not cool, not sexy, but trusty; the Brick can be counted on but he's a workhorse and he's, relatively, commonplace

Energy Projector - cool, sexy, and trusty; the Energy Projector is often dashing but stalwart, and is the "flying ace" of the heroes; but at the end of the day, in these categories, he's jack of all trades but master of none

Gadgeteer - cool, not sexy, and not trusty; the Gadgeteer is always scheming and makes mistakes (which are great plot devices); he's got enough nifty stuff to be cool, but he's rarely sexy, as he's ultimately a crime-fighting nerd - he's cool in the way those Internet whiz-kids were cool, back in the day

Martial Artist - cool, not sexy, and trusty; not high on the cool meter, but certainly registers, with those moves; not sexy as he/she is way too dedicated and focused; but certainly trusty with those codes of honor

Mentalist - not cool, sexy, and not trusty; they always seem to know what you're thinking, and they're generally outcasts, but they seem to be sexy, perhaps because they got all those ideas from so many others

Metamorph - cool, sexy, and not trusty; always being in different shapes, who knows what they're up to? but they do always look good, whether gleaming chrome or sinuously seductive with curves; and shape-shifting is just plain cool

Mystic - cool, sexy, and not trusty; not trusty at all, usually saving the world by damning a few people, but otherwise obviously mysterious, what with all that "other worlds" stuff, and so that alone is cool and sexy

Patriot - not cool, not sexy, and trusty; the Patriot is never cool (he's kinda square, actually), and although he has the body to be sexy, the girls go for the dangerous types and he' snot dangerous; but he is so damn trusty it makes ya cry!

Powered Armor - cool, not sexy, and hard to say on trusty; they are cool, with all that metal and toys; but not sexy, as they're covered up, unless you have a thing for metal, and maybe those attachments; trusty is hard to say, after all, they're hidden away and they seem to have all sorts of mental problems, but they do always show up on the right side, in the end - they just might be a bit weird to work with

Speedster - cool, sexy, and not trusty; at that speed and dashing, always sexy; cool, well, that can vary, but most can use their speed tricks to dazzle; but they aren't reliable in a fight as they get sucker-punched too often, when you least expect it

Weapon Master - cool, sexy, and not trusty; sort of a hybrid Energy Projector and Gadgeteer, but usually so human and flawed, with their fanatical obsession with their one weapon, the thing that they can trust more than humanity, they can't quite be fully trusted; but they usually have an eye patch or scar and are cool and sexy

The winnners?

The Metamorph is the coolest, both mysterious and viewable at the same time.

The Weapon Master is always the sexiest, they're the most human but both dashing and appropriately rough.

The Patriot is as trusty as they get. He never wavers.

[Blue]

Originally posted by RevHooligan
Has no one seen the irony of asking a forum of GAMERS what is cool and sexy?

I can ask my girlfriend about it. She's from Canada. You wouldn't know her. LOL. Yeh, mine too ;)

Actually I would argue that we KNOW cool and sexy, we're just incapable of being either.

Except maybe the bat-weilding, knee-cap breaking contingent of this board.