Sweep Manuevers & PSL

[Ndreare]

I have read people on multiple time recamend someone take PSL for sweep manuvers but I was under the impresion from my question to Steve that this is not allowed as they are ment to remove range or location type penalties. Not to remove penalties induced by a "Maneuver" such as sweep or rapid fire

Have I misunderstood or do you use house rules?

Just curious.


Originally posted by Steve Long
1. As a default rule, no, characters cannot buy PSLs to counteract the OCV penalties inherent in a specific Combat Maneuver. The point of PSLs is to reduce “specific types of negative modifier[s] for making particular types of attacks” — things like the Range Modifier or the Hit Location modifier. The OCV penalties inherent in a Maneuver aren’t really “general” enough for PSLs — to cancel them out, buy Combat Skill Levels. However, as always, the GM can allow it if he thinks it fits the character conception and doesn’t unbalance the game.


http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3642

[Monolith]

There is a Talent in FH called Rapid Archer which is two, 2 point PSLs to offset the Rapid Fire penalty with all bows. That alone would seem to indicate that PSLs for the Sweep and Rapid Fire maneuvers are allowed.

[Vondy]

I allow them.

[misterdeath]

Me too.

D

[Mole]

This is an intertesting topic. I looked into buying PSLs to offset the OCV penalties for Move-Throughs, but I found this in the FAQs and thought it was off-limits.


Q: Could a character buy Penalty Skill Levels to counteract the standard OCV penalty imposed by a Combat Maneuver, such as the -3 OCV for a Grab By?

A: No. If a character wants to buy PSLs with the attack, he has to define some form of negative OCV modifier they counteract — such as the Range Modifier or Hit Location modifiers. He cannot apply them to, for example, the -3 OCV with Grab By, the -v/5 penalty for Move Through, or the -2 per subsequent attack for Rapid Fire/Sweep. If he wants to counteract the OCV penalty associated with a Combat Maneuver, buy 2-point Combat Skill Levels.

Would you guys allow PSLs vs. the OCV penalties on Move-Throughs, Move-Bys, Grab By, etc.?

[Kristopher]

That's...interesting.

So is that saying that the negative modifiers to OCV for martial arts maneuvers and the like aren't really "penalties"?

[Vondy]

Originally posted by Mole
This is an intertesting topic. I looked into buying PSLs to offset the OCV penalties for Move-Throughs, but I found this in the FAQs and thought it was off-limits.

Would you guys allow PSLs vs. the OCV penalties on Move-Throughs, Move-Bys, Grab By, etc.?

In those instances the penalties are range modifiers, aren't they?

[badger3k]

Originally posted by D-Man
In those instances the penalties are range modifiers, aren't they?

For move throughs and bys? I figured them for the difficulty of attacking and moving full speed (or whatever speed). How can they be range since you are making the attack at no range? (or are you counting the distance moved as the range?) Maybe I misunderstood which is why I'm asking.

I follow the faq on these -

and if you look, FH does too:
FH p 107 - "At the GMs option, characters can buy this Talent for other ranged attacks, such as knife-throwing, by changing the name and what the Combat Skill Levels apply to."

So they did use the 2 point CSLs for the ocv penalty for the maneuver. I didn't think the .5 point difference between the lowest PSL level and CSL level was big enough to bother with (so far I haven't used them to very high bonuses where the half point may matter).

[TheEmerged]

Originally posted by Mole
This is an intertesting topic. I looked into buying PSLs to offset the OCV penalties for Move-Throughs, but I found this in the FAQs and thought it was off-limits.



Would you guys allow PSLs vs. the OCV penalties on Move-Throughs, Move-Bys, Grab By, etc.?

No, but I'd allow you to buy PSL's vs. the *cumulative* penalty for attacking more than one person with these mmanuevers. I have a PC with this in fact.

[Mole]

Good discussion. Thanks, guys!

[Vondy]

Originally posted by badger3k
For move throughs and bys? I figured them for the difficulty of attacking and moving full speed (or whatever speed). How can they be range since you are making the attack at no range? (or are you counting the distance moved as the range?) Maybe I misunderstood which is why I'm asking.

I follow the faq on these -

and if you look, FH does too:
FH p 107 - "At the GMs option, characters can buy this Talent for other ranged attacks, such as knife-throwing, by changing the name and what the Combat Skill Levels apply to."

So they did use the 2 point CSLs for the ocv penalty for the maneuver. I didn't think the .5 point difference between the lowest PSL level and CSL level was big enough to bother with (so far I haven't used them to very high bonuses where the half point may matter).

I was thinking in terms of move by, grab by, and move through. Generally, most of the penalties involved (other than the base OCV/DCV pens) are stacked on due to the range between the characters starting point and their targets location. In that event I would just buy levels versus range, which are hard coded I think.

If you are talking about the flat OCV/DCV modifiers for performing the manuever (before taking range into account) I have no issue with someone buying levels to offset them no matter what the official rules say.

I've even allowed a supersoldier character to by levels versus "OCV PENS" to represent his uber-fighting mastery (in any situation).