UNTIL:Defenders of Freedom Preview

[TheQuestionMan]

Hello Folks , I just wanted to say what a good job your doing and will be happy to buy new product of such good quality . My latest inquiry is for details on UNTIL : Defenders of Freedom . I haven't seen any comments or previews for this product and saw very little in the way of requests for input . Please give us some hints hmmm ...

Sincerly QM.

[Hermit]

Sounds promising. Almost makes me wish I were a playtester.

[Steve Long]

Come to think of it, I guess we didn't have a "what do you want to see?" thread. Since I wasn't the primary author, I didn't even think about starting one. Ah, well, c'est la vie -- it's in playtest now, so it's a little late to start one. ;)

As a quick tease, in addition to the usual stuff you'd expect -- history, organizational structure, technology, agent Package Deals -- the book also covers the nature of the UN, international law, major UNTIL facilities (the space station, the undersea base...), UNITY (the official UNTIL superteam, and how your heroes can join!), and the usual GM's Vault full of secret information. ;) So far, the playtesters seem to be enjoying it (I'm amazed how quickly some of 'em read!).

[misterdeath]

All I got left to mathcheck is the Vehicles. Just finished the Guns and Personal Equipment. Whoo, ha!

Personally, I really like this book. It's got a lot of history and law to base everything off of. One of the things that has always bothered some gamers is "how could UNTIL really exist?" DW does a fine job, IMO, of explaining that, and giving you enough international law to make working with UNTIL sound plausible (both as a GM and as a Player).

The UNITY team's pretty cool, and should be fun to interact with, but not very likely to "spotlight steal" from the PCs.

Nifty guns and vehicles and guns and agents and stuff.

It's a good book. So far, I think it's Darren's best work.

D

[Hermit]

Originally posted by misterdeath

Personally, I really like this book. It's got a lot of history and law to base everything off of. One of the things that has always bothered some gamers is "how could UNTIL really exist?" DW does a fine job, IMO, of explaining that, and giving you enough international law to make working with UNTIL sound plausible (both as a GM and as a Player).
D

Okay, now this gives me hope...see, I am one of those gamers ;)

And yes, I am curious about UNITY

[Darren Watts]

Thanks much for the kind words, but to give credit where it's due, Steve (as our resident legal expert) wrote the parts about international law, and also designed the original versions of UNITY that I updated to 5th Ed.

[misterdeath]

Originally posted by Hermit
Okay, now this gives me hope...see, I am one of those gamers ;)

And yes, I am curious about UNITY

Me too, which is why I've always been a PRIMUS fan rather than an UNTIL fan.

Until now. (ha ha)

D

[death tribble]

Not wanting to be crude but

I always took it that Until wiped their bottoms on Primus and the Golden Avenger.

And so yes, I am looking forward to this.

[Kristopher]

Originally posted by death tribble
Not wanting to be crude but

I always took it that Until wiped their bottoms on Primus and the Golden Avenger.

And so yes, I am looking forward to this.

Could you explain what you mean in more detail?

[Hermit]

Originally posted by misterdeath
Me too, which is why I've always been a PRIMUS fan rather than an UNTIL fan.

Until now. (ha ha)

D

Hey, I'm still a PRIMUS fan, one of the more popular NPCs that I ever created was a high level agent who is apparently a cross between Nick Fury and Columbo ;)

Never cared much for UNTIL, but there's room enough in my little gamer heart for two organizations I guess if they can impress ;)

[Lord Liaden]

Originally posted by Hermit
Hey, I'm still a PRIMUS fan, one of the more popular NPCs that I ever created was a high level agent who is apparently a cross between Nick Fury and Columbo ;)

Never cared much for UNTIL, but there's room enough in my little gamer heart for two organizations I guess if they can impress ;)

For us HEROphiles who live (and whose characters adventure)outside of the United States, elaboration on UNTIL would tend to be a higher priority than PRIMUS. ;)

[Hermit]

Originally posted by Lord Liaden
For us HEROphiles who live (and whose characters adventure)outside of the United States, elaboration on UNTIL would tend to be a higher priority than PRIMUS. ;)

Hey, is it my fault that so many of you are disadvantaged? ;)

*hides quickly*

Seriously, no arguement from me there. I can see why an UNTIL book is much needed.

[TheQuestionMan]

Heh Folks , As a former Canadian Peace Keeper I must agree with Lord Liaden . In my own Campaigns UNTIL has always worked closely with the RCMP and several UNTIL Agents were Canadian .

Don't get me wrong PRIMUS and SCM the QM here askin' how your project is going . Don't get me wrong PRIMUS was a good organization book and SCM's PRIMUS improved and updated it .

It's just to me UNTIL represents an International Agency that's relatively unblemished by scandle . I want UNTIL ( and hope PRIMUS is soon to follow :)

QM

[TheQuestionMan]

Originally posted by Hermit
Hey, is it my fault that so many of you are disadvantaged? ;)

*hides quickly*

Seriously, no arguement from me there. I can see why an UNTIL book is much needed.

You better hide :) ( QM returns to igloo and grabs bag of snow balls , turns and smiles evilly " I'm ah huntin' HERMIT heh heh heh" )

[misterdeath]

Originally posted by Hermit
Hey, I'm still a PRIMUS fan, one of the more popular NPCs that I ever created was a high level agent who is apparently a cross between Nick Fury and Columbo ;)

Never cared much for UNTIL, but there's room enough in my little gamer heart for two organizations I guess if they can impress ;)

I've got plenty of characters that are plenty tied in with PRIMUS.

I think UNTIL will impress.

D

[BishopofB&W]

Originally posted by Hermit
Hey, I'm still a PRIMUS fan, one of the more popular NPCs that I ever created was a high level agent who is apparently a cross between Nick Fury and Columbo ;)

Never cared much for UNTIL, but there's room enough in my little gamer heart for two organizations I guess if they can impress ;)

I know what you mean. It's probably just my dislike of and cynicism toward the real-world UN, but I have a hard time picturing a UN organization that has the kind of credibility UNTIL is supposed to have. I understand that it's a genre convention and some such response would be made to the emergence of high-powered superhumans, but I picture Interpol as having more relevance, credibility, and prestige than a UN org in such a world. That's why I look forward to seeing a good rationale for UNTIL.:)

[Hermit]

Originally posted by BishopofB&W
I know what you mean. It's probably just my dislike of and cynicism toward the real-world UN, but I have a hard time picturing a UN organization that has the kind of credibility UNTIL is supposed to have. I understand that it's a genre convention and some such response would be made to the emergence of high-powered superhumans, but I picture Interpol as having more relevance, credibility, and prestige than a UN org in such a world. That's why I look forward to seeing a good rationale for UNTIL.:)

Same here.

I also hope (And , since they're often two steps ahead, expect) for there to be some notes on how to play UNTIL and UNITY with different "ages" and degrees of Morality if need be.

[TheQuestionMan]

bump

[BishopofB&W]

Nice cover. I like the depiction of teamwork.

[Jon Fry]

Agreed -- this is the best cover I've seen for any RPG product in some time. I like blue. :)

The content looks promising as well. I've never run a supers campaign, but I can definitely see the appeal of playing regular guys in a superpowered world. One question, though: does UNTIL just try to stop supervillians, or are they a check against hero excesses as well?

Jon

[Darren Watts]

Originally posted by Jon Fry
One question, though: does UNTIL just try to stop supervillians, or are they a check against hero excesses as well?

Jon

In the "standard" setting, they concentrate on supervillainy ( and alien invasions, unnatural disasters and other facts of life in a superheroic universe.) UNTIL presumes a setting where there are largely unequivocal good guys and bad guys. There is a fairly extensive discussion of using UNTIL in other ways, including as rivals or opposition to the heroes, or in worlds where there are no heroes. dw

[Nato]

Originally posted by Jon Fry
Agreed -- this is the best cover I've seen for any RPG product in some time. I like blue. :)

The content looks promising as well. I've never run a supers campaign, but I can definitely see the appeal of playing regular guys in a superpowered world. One question, though: does UNTIL just try to stop supervillians, or are they a check against hero excesses as well?

Jon

Thanks for the compliments guys. Very much appreciated!

Nato

[Redmenace]

Originally posted by Nato
Thanks for the compliments guys. Very much appreciated!

Nato


I trust we'll be seeing some of your work inside as well Nato. Two weeks ago I showed off the Viper hovertank from V-cots to my players, it stopped the game in it's tracks.

[Lord Liaden]

Am I right in guessing that the action on this cover is taking place moments after that depicted on the cover for VIPER? It looks like Ripper has just burst out of that prison van from the aforementioned villain sourcebook, and is now facing a counterattack by the Forces of Good (tm).

If so it's a fine gimmick, and a very sharp cover. I'm really looking forward to this book. :D

[Nato]

Originally posted by Lord Liaden
It looks like Ripper has just burst out of that prison van from the aforementioned villain sourcebook, and is now facing a counterattack by the Forces of Good (tm).

If so it's a fine gimmick, and a very sharp cover. I'm really looking forward to this book. :D

That's definitely the idea we had in mind for this cover. Sort of a sequel to the VIPER cover. I'm glad you like!

[Nato]

Originally posted by Redmenace
I trust we'll be seeing some of your work inside as well Nato. Two weeks ago I showed off the Viper hovertank from V-cots to my players, it stopped the game in it's tracks.
I have a few interior pieces in UNTIL. A snowmobile, a Shuttle, and some other stuff I can't remember at the moment.
I'm happy to hear that the VIPER tank drawing had an impact on your group. I really dig drawing vehicles and tech stuff like that.

[Hermit]

Originally posted by Darren Watts
In the "standard" setting, they concentrate on supervillainy ( and alien invasions, unnatural disasters and other facts of life in a superheroic universe.) UNTIL presumes a setting where there are largely unequivocal good guys and bad guys. There is a fairly extensive discussion of using UNTIL in other ways, including as rivals or opposition to the heroes, or in worlds where there are no heroes. dw

Thanks, Darren. That's very much what I was hoping for :)

[Kristopher]

Originally posted by BishopofB&W
I know what you mean. It's probably just my dislike of and cynicism toward the real-world UN, but I have a hard time picturing a UN organization that has the kind of credibility UNTIL is supposed to have. I understand that it's a genre convention and some such response would be made to the emergence of high-powered superhumans, but I picture Interpol as having more relevance, credibility, and prestige than a UN org in such a world. That's why I look forward to seeing a good rationale for UNTIL.:)

I think it's kinda strange that between UNTIL and PRIMUS, it's PRIMUS that has the rep for intrigue, backstabbing, and infighting. (At least, that's the impression I get from these boards, and reading Champions and CU.)

[GestaltBennie]

This is a case where genre and the real world have a distinct disconnect. The comics' vision of the UN is very Silver Age, it's a very 60s idealistic body, the bright shiny hope of humanity taking its natural next step toward unity and enlightenment.

George MacDonald's original UNTIL reflects this idealistic attitude. This shouldn't come as too much of a surprise, George's love for 60s and 70s Marvel is obvious in his work, and when he created UNTIL in the early 1980s, it predated a lot of the dissatisfaction that American nationalists have expressed toward the UN over the last few decades.

Scott Bennie

[TheQuestionMan]

I can't seem to find the UNTIL cover art posted . Where it go ? ( Where'd who go ??? ) ;)

[Monolith]

Has anyone even seen a copy of this book yet? This one seems to be going very slowly through the chain. I know, I know, holidays, but still. :)

[Darren Watts]

We got ours at the office Monday, and we're just across the bay from the printer. Delivery does seem to be unusually slow this week. dw

[Blue]

It was not at my very efficient game store yesterday. I expect it will show up today, if their pattern follows.

Unfortunately it's comic book day, so I'll have to wait UNTIL tomorrow ;).

I'll mention it in Thursday Chat if I have it. (<---Read "Rub it in")

[Monolith]

Did you get it yet Blue? Has anyone gotten it yet? Did all the books get destroyed in a mudslide? :)

[winterhawk]

Originally posted by Monolith
Did you get it yet Blue? Has anyone gotten it yet? Did all the books get destroyed in a mudslide? :)

Thanks to the wonderful folks at Games Plus in lovely Mt. Prospect, IL, I own a copy. :)

[Morningstar]

"We got ours at the office Monday, and we're just across the bay from the printer. Delivery does seem to be unusually slow this week. dw"

I pre-ordered it from FRP and they still don't seem to have it up on their site. They are up north too, I would have thought they would get it quick. Bummer

[ChuckB]

Originally posted by Kristopher
I think it's kinda strange that between UNTIL and PRIMUS, it's PRIMUS that has the rep for intrigue, backstabbing, and infighting. (At least, that's the impression I get from these boards, and reading Champions and CU.)

Actually Special American Tactics (from Deathstroke and Super-Agents) were the REALLY back-stabbing type agency(and often played as comic relief).

PRIMUS wasn't too bad , just somewhat territorial over U.S. borders (which is where the rivalry with UNTIL started) and , for some reason , the Golden Avenger (PRIMUS' pet hero) had a whole anti-mutant thing going on and by default , PRIMUS had one too.

In my campaign I differentiated the three teams by making them hybrids of agencies in real life and fiction.

UNTIL was sort of an idealized hybrid of UNCLE and SHIELD and
tended to have a mindset very similar to the Federation from Star Trek albeit more Earth-bound. Dealt with rescues and unusual combat situations on an international level.

PRIMUS was sort of a Reaganesque THUNDER/SHIELD/ G.I. Joe hybrid , essentially well-intentioned gung-ho cowboys. I ditched the whole anti-mutant thing. Primus pretty much operated as an investigative SWAT team/Delta-Force operation dealing with immediate extra-normal threats.

SAT (which I renamed Special American Methods because the acronym sounded more American) was a cynical and semi-incompetent hybrid of G.I. Joe , Control (from Get Smart) and the Shop (from Steven King novels) and International Operations (from Wildstorm) who represented the dark side of American government (J. Edgar Hoover , Vietnam , CIA ,
Ollie North , Nixon , etc) SAM's charter was "classified" , so they could pretty much involve themselves into any domestic ( or covertly international) situation.