Death Trigger

[Snarf]

I've read various books where a character had the ability to unleash some massive disaster if they were killed. In the book Snow Crash, there was an extemely badass guy called Raven who had an A-bomb as a sidecar on his motorcycle. It was triggered by radio to go off if his heart stopped. There was another book I read where you would get horribly cursed if you killed someone with royal blood. I think that was based on what some slavic countries used to believe.

Do you think it's ever worth buying a power like this? How would you construct a power like this? Has anyone already used something like this in a game?

I thought of two ways this could be done. One way is to just buy the A-bomb with points or money and place some steep limitations on it. Things like Only Activates At Moment Of Death (-5) and One Non-Recoverable Charge (-4).

But, if you reason from effects, the main point of a power like this is that enemies are afraid to kill you, and the actual explosion is mostly a special effect. So, you could just buy a huge reputation and forget about statting out the power.

[Maccabe]

3 words;
Duex et Machina

[Snarf]

I disagree. A power that you have to die to use is not going to win the game for you, no matter how sick it is.

[badger3k]

Originally posted by Snarf
I disagree. A power that you have to die to use is not going to win the game for you, no matter how sick it is.

True, but it can be very useful for bad guys. The power would probably be built with a trigger instead of the limitation, IMO, and definitely have 1 , non-recoverable charge. O END too, area effect is also good.

Another variant of this is the creature that explodes upon death (ala dragonlance) - didn't someone here post something like this construct? I can't remember now, but I thought somebody was talking about this type of thing.

[Lord Liaden]

Originally posted by Snarf
I disagree. A power that you have to die to use is not going to win the game for you, no matter how sick it is.

I think that would depend entirely on how you define "winning." It's a classic tactic of many villains that "if I fall, I'm taking all of you with me!" That thought seems to give them a certain amount of satisfaction. It's also often considered noble to sacrifice yourself to take out large numbers of the enemy.

Maccabe, the "deus ex machina" approach is fine if you want the effect to be inescapable; but if the GM wants the players to have some chance to escape or withstand it, or even mitigate its effects, defining it can be helpful.

Snarf, the Reputation works fine if this is something that you never intend to use; but if the PCs call the character's bluff, you either need the Plot Device approach or need to whip up stats on the spot. ;)

[cutsleeve]

i posted something on a samurai ability that would allow him to strike a blow after he was struck down. it was followed by someone posting a reply which had it set up as an killing attack with trigger. This is something which is more of a thing to flesh out the character. i personally might use it even though it would only be 1 charge which cant be replenished . and of course he is dead but it is something some samurai would have because of their powerful spirit. things like that

[badger3k]

Originally posted by cutsleeve
i posted something on a samurai ability that would allow him to strike a blow after he was struck down. it was followed by someone posting a reply which had it set up as an killing attack with trigger. This is something which is more of a thing to flesh out the character. i personally might use it even though it would only be 1 charge which cant be replenished . and of course he is dead but it is something some samurai would have because of their powerful spirit. things like that

Sounds like some martial arts movies - the master (or samurai) would kill the man who cut his head off, something like that - definitely cool.

[Rebar]

samurai ability that would allow him to strike a blow after he was struck down.

Fascinating. I just heard this recently - that a dying Samurai should be able to do one excellent thing before he expires.

Now I don't remember where I heard it, but I immediately asked my GM for it for my Samurai character.

[The Horror]

I'm thinking of the Predator here...

Really, I do like the idea, but would rather it was built with a delay on it, like a clock counting down. That way the characters would have to race against the clock to disarm it, or even find the body then disarm it.


The Horror

[Snarf]

A trigger works great, but it seems wrong to me that an effect which only works when you die costs more points instead of saving them. Doesn't a plain 4D6 Energy Blast seem more useful than a more costly 4d6 Energy Blast that only goes off when you die?

[Chris Goodwin]

Let's see. The one you can use any time you like, the other you can only use once, ever, and you're dead afterward. So, no.

[Rebar]

seems wrong to me that an effect which only works when you die costs more points instead of saving them. Doesn't a plain 4D6 Energy Blast seem more useful than a more costly 4d6 Energy Blast that only goes off when you die?

Who said it's more? After buying 1 non-recoverable charge, it is quite cheap indeed, wouldn't you say? (I can get it up to a -9 lim).

[Snarf]

Originally posted by Rebar
Who said it's more? After buying 1 non-recoverable charge, it is quite cheap indeed, wouldn't you say? (I can get it up to a -9 lim).
I agree that that's crazy cheap, but it still doesn't justify the cost of the trigger. What seems more useful, a 4d6 energy blast that you can only use once or a 4d6 energy blast that you can only use once which goes off when you die?

[zornwil]

I had a PC once who had this power where the spider egg(s) in his brain would hatch upon his death and the resulting giant spider would go on a killing rampage until it reached salt water (it's an alien "spider"). I awarded it with no points, as there was no resurrection or similar.

If you're playing a Deadlands-style game where death is the norm, I'd say it might make sense to model some powers like this with the appropriate limitation.

[badger3k]

I agree it is kinda odd to pay more for an ability that can only be used after you're dead. What if the death trigger was a limitation instead of a disadvantage (sort of like the difference between an uncontrolled duration and a reduced duration in the FHG). Say -1/2 for an offensive power.

Of course, another power, such as a linked teleport and resurrection, would still have the +1/2 trigger. It would all depend on whether or not the trigger was an advantage (true, the healing is still more limited, but it is a big advantage to be able to get to safety and heal up instead of getting eaten, IMO.

[AnotherSkip]

Originally posted by Snarf
I agree that that's crazy cheap, but it still doesn't justify the cost of the trigger. What seems more useful, a 4d6 energy blast that you can only use once or a 4d6 energy blast that you can only use once which goes off when you die?

Snarf that is why you get -9 in limitations, a +1/4 trigger only boosts the Active not real points

[Snarf]

Originally posted by AnotherSkip
Snarf that is why you get -9 in limitations, a +1/4 trigger only boosts the Active not real points
What limitations are you using specifically? I can't figure out precisely what you're doing.

[Snarf]

Originally posted by zornwil
I had a PC once who had this power where the spider egg(s) in his brain would hatch upon his death and the resulting giant spider would go on a killing rampage until it reached salt water (it's an alien "spider"). I awarded it with no points, as there was no resurrection or similar.
I love this idea. I'm going to steal this for one of my games at some point.

[Rebar]

My personal pref is:

1 charge -2
never recovers -2
only works upon death -4
only works vs. immediate, point-blank attacker (i.e. if he dies by arrow or by poison, he's SOOL) -1 (or more)

Of course, the middle one is open to judgement about how much it's worth.

[Snarf]

Originally posted by Rebar
My personal pref is:

1 charge -2
never recovers -2
only works upon death -4
only works vs. immediate, point-blank attacker (i.e. if he dies by arrow or by poison, he's SOOL) -1 (or more)

Of course, the middle one is open to judgement about how much it's worth.
Sounds good to me.

Self-Destruct: RKA 8d6, Explosive (+1/2), (AP 180); 1 Nonrecoverable Charge (-4), Only Works Upon Death (-4), (RC 20).

Alien Hatchling: Summon 1 800 point Monster, (AP 160); 1 Nonrecoverable Charge (-4), Only Works Upon Death (-4), (RC 18).

How's that look? Seems a little pricy for something you would never want to use, but even the threat of what could happen can get results sometimes.

[cutsleeve]

The thread about the samurai ability to take one final action even after being struck down. I mentioned it in this thread http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=9503&highlight=hagakure . It is based on a passage from the hagakure which is one of the books which was written to explain the way of bushido to successive generations of ancient samurai.

[Snarf]

Wow, it's so cool that there's a real world example of this kind of power.

If you made that ability using Rebar's method it would be a little cheaper:

Samurai Determination:
2d6 HKA, (AP 30); OIF (weapon of opportunity, -1/2), Only Works Upon Death (-4), Only Works Vs. Immediate Point-Blank Attacker (-1), 1 Nonrecoverable Charge (-4), (RC 3);
plus +5 OCV, (AP 10); OIF (weapon of opportunity, -1/2), Only Works Upon Death (-4), Only Works Vs. Immediate Point-Blank Attacker (-1), 1 Nonrecoverable Charge (-4), (RC 1);
plus +8 Penalty Skill Levels (head/vitals shot), (AP 12); OIF (weapon of opportunity, -1/2), Only Works Upon Death (-4), Only Works Vs. Immediate Point-Blank Attacker (-1), 1 Nonrecoverable Charge (-4), (RC 2);
Total Cost: 6 Points