Military vs. Terrorists (aka - Viper)

[Celebrin]

Hey there, folks.

As I am planning on using Viper as a major villain organization in my game, and the characters are looking like they may end up working for the military in some form or other (probably under SOCOM - as noted in a previous thread), I'm wondering what kind of action the military would be able/allowed to take on home soil against terrorist organizations such as Viper (they are the major global terror threat in my game).

I know there are military/ex-military folks on the board and I'd love to hear your views - as well as other people as well, since it's still a superhero game and not everything is absolutely realistic. ;)

Thanks,
Darren
:)

[Crusader108]

Why does this sound like the premise for the old GI JOE cartoon? :D

[Celebrin]

*laughs* Yeah, I know, but the characters are actually mutants nd only one actually runs around with a weapon (non-lethal, just like the old GI Joe cartoon) - used to watch it all the time as a kid)

Not my choice, one of the characters is n officer working on his education at the University all the characters are based around, and when his mutant powers manifested he contacted the Army so they could bring him in for study, etc... The rest of the group just kinda tagged along with him for their own reasons. :)

The previous thread is here. (http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11142)

[megaplayboy]

Do you want a realistic answer or a comic-bookish one?

Realistically, since VIPER agents don't have a specific "profile", it's pretty easy for them to operate covertly. They'd probably have a preference for dummy corporations, armored mansions and the like. The military would probably operate using small covert action teams, with the heavy hardware being saved for extreme circumstances.(i.e., stealth bombers with bunker-buster bombs are extremely unlikely to be deployed in the US, and airstrikes of any kind in a populated area would be ruled out PDQ). Figure VIPER to be the worst nightmare terrorist group--unbelievably well-financed and well-connected, stealthy, equipped with bleeding edge technology and the world's most destructive weaponry, and numbering in the thousands.

Only a team of very SPECIAL operatives has a chance to find their Achilles heel to take them down...

[Supreme Serpent]

Well, if a group like VIPER had been around for the last 40 yrs in the US regularly robbing banks, killing people, blowing stuff up, etc with superpowered operatives, high-tech weapons, tanks, etc. then there would be an appropriate response.

In the CU history, that has been UNTIL, which was allowed to come in and operate in the US heavily, then PRIMUS and SAT, both of which are heavily staffed by military personnel. You could have the group technically under the PRIMUS umbrella as far as org charts go.

If you wanted to, you could have the US legal system response evolve further away from modern-day reality given the 40-years extra of "War on Terror" in the super-verse. Patriot Act type laws long established. Restrictions on military use in the US, esp as police very different, or a large special force has been set up to respond (aka PRIMUS, but could decide that the "National Guard" is a very different creature these days, for example).

[Ghost who Walks]

There is an interesting way to do quasi-military supers who may still have civilian lives.

Technically, the US military is prohibited from conducting operations on US soil. They are allowed to operate as advisors/consultants however.

So you could have the FBI staking out the VIPER base and doing their wiretap thing. The FBI suspects VIPER is trying toget ahold of WMD, and so the military supers are called in.
VIPER starts to wonder why the pizza truck has been parked outside for three weeks. Theysenda guy tyo knockonthedoor. So what do the Heroes do when Boa Constrictor tells him to move the van?

Another seldom used route could have the Heroes be known to the generals as supers, but not to the troops. This has the fun of them keeping secret identities (like Navy cook). If the military actually hadsupers working for it, they may want to keep it quiet...

You could also try the "Department of Homeland Security Route"

[ShadowHawk]

The "Primus" concept has, I think, been the usual way to handle this. I never liked the idea of UNTIL operating freely in the USA. I just see that as too unrealistic, even for comics. Maybe as advisors or working on special ops with the US Law Enforcement.

I would go with the Homeland Security idea. There is some relaxation in the "real world" on the use of Military (eg, jets escorting airliners; Missle batteries defending Wash.DC; National Guard troops in some Airports) and the US Coast Guard has operated in US waters since it was created. They are now part of the Dept. of Homeland Security & all officers are Deputy US Marshals (reserve) so that they can arrest drug smugglers & the like (a little known fact which may win me the big $ on a game show someday:D ) So, I had thought to use Primus as a arm of the Homeland Security Dept in a similar fashion in my own campaigns.

[Celebrin]

Well, I don't use UNTIL in a military sense - IMC UNTIL is more of an investigatory and legal body - they look a lot more like FBI agents than military personal. They have an attachment to the United Nations military, but they aren't a military organization.

I don't have any bodies such as PRIMUS or SAT set up within the government as yet, and have been thinking of setting the characters up as such at some point in the game if they continue to act for the military. Not for the time being, though.

Perhaps I'll work them through more foreign actions against VIPER cells to begin with, unless they want to leave change their mind and manage to do so without too much problem.

Also, super have only been around IMC for about 10 or so years - there is a slowly growing population of mutants but their numbers aren't anywhere near what they would be ain a Marvel-style univese.

Thanks for the ideas, folks, I appreciate them. :)

Darren
:)

[Trebuchet]

In our campaign we also don't use the CU. Supers have been around for only about 5 years, making their first official appearance in 2000 (It's now spring 2005 in our game). As yet we do not have any VIPER clones; organized crime and terrorism fills that bill just fine.

We're just now starting to see serious government action with regard to paranormals, with both the US and EU recently constructing facilities to hold supercriminals. The first stirrings of paranormal registration and/or control are being proposed in legislatures in America and elsewhere. And America has established two official superhero teams known as Justice Watch and Justice Guard, both affiliated with the Dept. of Justice and all members being US Marshals.

Our team MidGuard is international and based in Europe, but they've already interacted with Justice Watch in New York.

[Vondy]

My campaign was centered around a team of meta-humans in the employ of the defense department as a paramilitary and covert operations team. Its a homebrew world, though. I've never bought into the CU conception of the United States allowing UNTIL to operate on their soil (not when they could easily fund PRIMUS over and beyond UNTIL's capacity) - as such I would change that part of the paradigm if I were ever to use the CU. I'm of the opinion, in the current political climate, that the government would make VIPER a very high level priority (and: US Government, NCI, 14- is not a hunted you want). I think they would work double agents into place until they had a big picture and would then hit them like a whirlwind. I don't think Viper, in the US, would remain effective for very long - supers or no.

[assault]

Originally posted by D-Man
I'm of the opinion, in the current political climate, that the government would make VIPER a very high level priority (and: US Government, NCI, 14- is not a hunted you want). I think they would work double agents into place until they had a big picture and would then hit them like a whirlwind. I don't think Viper, in the US, would remain effective for very long - supers or no.

Presumably there is some reason why this hasn't been done to organised crime...

In fact, I suspect that most of VIPER's operations in the US would be more like those of organised crime than of "terrorist" groups. It's certainly how they operate in Australia in my game.

And as for infiltrating VIPER... well, VIPER is simultaneously infiltrating the US government! A couple of snakes in the right places, and your double agents' heads roll. The US government doesn't have a cell structure. VIPER does.

A lot depends on how VIPER operates. If it insists on running around with a bunch of agents in green and yellow spandex, it will be beaten rather quickly. If, on the other hand, it mainly operates covertly and conspiratorily, it would be a lot more formidable opponent.

Just try sending double agents into the Nest that is operating inside the Office of Homeland Security!

Alan

[Trebuchet]

Originally posted by assault
Presumably there is some reason why this hasn't been done to organised crime...Actually, to a large extent it has. The Mob is only a pale shadow of its former glory days, most of its senior dons are in prison. And consider that most of the Mafia's operations are protection rackets, gambling, loan sharking, prostitution, etc. These are fairly low key (sometimes called "victimless") and are seldom seen by the general public.

But a bunch of guys in VIPER-like uniforms suddenly knocking off banks, trashing research labs and kidnapping Senator's wives would get a lot of negative attention really fast. I doubt even VIPER would really want to deal with cruise missiles, Apache helicopters and Abrams tanks. :eek:

[Vondy]

Originally posted by assault
Presumably there is some reason why this hasn't been done to organised crime...


It was done to organized crime in this country. LCN is nothing compared to what it used to be, and it didn't event take the military to do it, just the FBI organized crime task force and good police work. And the mob never merited the same kind of attention a subversive (and terrorist) organization like viper would.

We do have other organized crime groups in this country, but they are under a lot of pressure from the feds (because attention is turning away from the old mob to the new mobs (every wave immigrants has one to deal with). Organized crime isn't generally considered to be a national security threat. Viper, however, would make that list.

And they won't just have Elliot Ness on their doorstep. They'll have Wild Bill Donovan and General Patton saying hello, too.