Ultimate Disadvantage: Age

[BobGreenwade]

Along the same lines as the "Accidental Change" thread (qv), what ideas do people have for expanding the Age Disadvantage?

To start with, I'd change the header to "Age/Normal Characteristic Maxima."

The optional rules I can think of include:
A return of some version of the old way of creating different NCM for different species (though of course very much as an option).
A listing for Age 80+, for the truly ancient.
Cross-references to Physical Limitations related to age.
Ways to differentiate characters with Normal Characteristic Maxima from those without in games that don't impose it as default -- for example, for example, characters with NCM might use Heroic rather than Superheroic rules for Pushing, Endurance, Knockdown/Knockback, and other rules.
Any other ideas?

[Ghost who Walks]

~Stats for babies and teenagers.

~A listing of what actually are the starting stats for the average poerson of each age. "Normal" is pretty obvious, but does age 60+ mean they start with 0 Str, Con, and Body, with a max of 10?

[Fitz]

My feeling is that the Age disad should reduce (or increase) the character's starting characteristics as well as altering the NCM level.

At present it's an easy disad to abuse in a sci-fi or fantasy heroic campaign -- how many times have you seen someone say "Well I didn't want a high STR anyway, and if I make him a doddering ancient I can buy his INT up to a gazillion without any cost penalty".

Also, I'd like to see a cosmetic change made in the description of the disad categories. Rather than setting specific age ranges (40+, 60+ etc.) I think the age ranges should be made descriptively: for example, Infant, Juvenile, Adult, Middle-Aged, Old, Ancient. That makes the description more generic, and less humanocentric.

[BobGreenwade]

I really like the name changes; that definitely goes on the list of possibilities.

So will the question of altering base stats as well as maxima. (Currently, it only alters the maxima; I'm just talking option here.)

About the "babies and teenagers" thing, GWW... did you mean base character sheets, or "teen" and "infant" as Age levels? I could see adding the latter to the list, but I'm not so sure about the former.

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by Fitz
My feeling is that the Age disad should reduce (or increase) the character's starting characteristics as well as altering the NCM level.

At present it's an easy disad to abuse in a sci-fi or fantasy heroic campaign -- how many times have you seen someone say "Well I didn't want a high STR anyway, and if I make him a doddering ancient I can buy his INT up to a gazillion without any cost penalty".

Also, I'd like to see a cosmetic change made in the description of the disad categories. Rather than setting specific age ranges (40+, 60+ etc.) I think the age ranges should be made descriptively: for example, Infant, Juvenile, Adult, Middle-Aged, Old, Ancient. That makes the description more generic, and less humanocentric.

Agreed. Also, here is a utility to create alternate NCM Templates for HERO Desinger, for those who like to do such things: http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/GreyHEROContent/RacePackageDeals/NCMExport/NCMExport.asp

[Snarf]

Age could be cross referenced with how it can be a social limitation (or advantage). Young people get less respect and won't be taken seriously at all in some situations.

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by Snarf
Age could be cross referenced with how it can be a social limitation (or advantage). Young people get less respect and won't be taken seriously at all in some situations. But simultaneously are not held accountable for a long list of reprehensible behavior.....

[Snarf]

Originally posted by Killer Shrike
But simultaneously are not held accountable for a long list of reprehensible behavior.....
Yeah, that's interesting to consider. My first thought is that it's still more of a disadvantage in an RPG but I need to think of more examples.

[Hugh Neilson]

What about removing the reference to trhe age of the character entirely (making this a "Characteristic Maxima" disad only). Why can't a character be "Frail", with the limits presently attributed to 40+, or even "Feeble", with attribute maxima more stringent than 60+?

[BobGreenwade]

Okay, the Social Limitation cross-reference definitely goes onto the list right next to the Physical Limitation cross-reference. I'm not sure about Hugh's idea of removing all references to Age, though; it could be presented as a GM's option.

[Ghost who Walks]

Originally posted by BobGreenwade
About the "babies and teenagers" thing, GWW... did you mean base character sheets, or "teen" and "infant" as Age levels? I could see adding the latter to the list, but I'm not so sure about the former.
I was thinking case character sheets originally, Age is a disadvantage that pops up more in the non-powered hero stuff.

You could be right. The "infant-toddler" age bracket would be useful for DNPC's, and the future supplement "PreSchool HERO".

Really like the idea of defining it by age groups. That would be very useful I imagine to fantasy and star hero, if the chart could be easily adapted to other races.

[Fenixcrest]

Personally, I always considered "Teen" (or at least "late Teen") to be the start of the normal characteristic range. Generally, I rule that from age 16 to around 30-ish, the character is a "normal" i.e. unadjusted character, and does not apply for the age limitation. That's just my opinion, though. I tend to run games with teen-aged characters, anyway.

[pinecone]

One more vote for non-age base health descriptors as a option...such as "Frail" so an "Elf" might live to be a thousand but be built with "age" modified NCM because Elves are not built too sturdy....Hmmm would "Robust" be a viable advantage in a NCM world? (NCM with some or all base max at a higher level?)

[Blue Jogger]

Well, a couple points...

Really, the age disadvantage first popped up in Fantasy Hero where the "doddering ancient" really took centerstage with high INT being a requirement for launching fireballs and keeping several spells racked (or running), etc... Really if you think about it, how many 60-year-olds have a 25 to 30 INT when 8 is average. Lots of skills, of course. Lots of skill modifiers, skill levels and complimentary skills, naturally. ("In my day, we wrote machine code by hand!") But sheer raw brainpower? Then again, Stephen Hawking is 64.

I wouldn't have Robust in a NCM world unless it was part of a packaged deal of some sort. But I've seen one too many half-orges that even paying double beyond 20 were fairly scary PCs.

[pinecone]

Well ...back in the day I used the Demi-god, major hero and regular hero packages out of "Age of heros" (?) and it was pretty ballenced, but yes in fantasy hero "stat monsters" can be very unballencing.....

[AnotherSkip]

the best way to stop the "Stat Monsters" is to minimise use of stats for skills. or ino ther words run a few "heavy skill" campaigns...

a character with only 4 skills who falls in love with the social elite has a good motivation to buy more skills.