European enemies

[VIPER]

I was just organizing my old Champs stuff and came across this.

Is the secret page 35 available? I am sure this has been discussed before so a point in the right direction would be great.

V1

[Steve Long]

No, it's not; that was 13 years and 2-3 (quasi-)owners ago. ;) AFAIK no one who wrote in for it (and I knew several people who did) ever received any information.

[Armitage]

Originally posted by Steve Long
No, it's not; that was 13 years and 2-3 (quasi-)owners ago. ;) AFAIK no one who wrote in for it (and I knew several people who did) ever received any information.

One of my friends did and received a sheet of errata.
(Grabbing my hand-annotated copy of EE).

p.12, Chromedome has 80 STR, 100 points*.
*-referenced in the book, 0 END, DI figured in.

p.16, Casca's 5d6 EB, +1 Stun is a 1 1/2 d6 RKA.

p.28, Shrike has 20 EGO.

p.46, Cavalry should have 10+5 BODY. His 4d6 EB +1 Stun should be a 1d6 +1 RKA.

p.47, Ghost Horse has 50 STR, 22 BODY, 47 STUN, and 4 DCV.

p.56, Facet has 90 STR, 18 PD, and 14 ED.

p.68, Huntsman's Flight has a x4 non-combat multiplier. The same is true for his Hounds.

p. 76, Midnight Sun's 16d6 EB is No Knockback.

p.84, Spector has 4 Combat Skill Levels with his rifle.

p. 86, Thespian has 5 Combat Skill Levels with Fencing Maneuvers.

[Steve Long]

Wow, if that's all it was, what a let-down. That's not much of a "prize." ;)

[VIPER]

Thanks!
V1

[Lord Mhoram]

I've got all three pages, scanned in PDF mode.

The first is a letter from the Until guy in paris explaining that there was an attack on the base and the file had to be reconstructed and that was why there were errors.

The second page is a list of errata.

The third is a map of Europe with which villians are from which country.

Steve, I'd be happy to send them to you guys so you can put that on the free stuff page if you like, just tell me where.

[Steve Long]

LM's sent me the pages, and I've forwarded them to Ben so he can post them on the Free Stuff page... in case anyone's truly interested. ;)

[Richard Logue]

Originally posted by Steve Long
LM's sent me the pages, and I've forwarded them to Ben so he can post them on the Free Stuff page... in case anyone's truly interested. ;)

You people are cool.

Now if I can just get Ben to send me a reply concerning the Eurostar wallpaper I made, all in the world would be perfect.... ;)

:)

[BobGreenwade]

Hey, Ben's a pretty busy guy, so cut him some slack. I mean, he has yet to post the starships and space station I sent him for the Spacer's Toolkit Online.... ;)

[Ben Seeman]

Originally posted by BobGreenwade
Hey, Ben's a pretty busy guy, so cut him some slack. I mean, he has yet to post the starships and space station I sent him for the Spacer's Toolkit Online.... ;)
Oh yeah! ;)

[KA.]

Hey Ben!

Steve said you would post the extra pages in Free Stuff?

Is it there yet?
Is it there yet?
Is it there yet?
Is it there yet?
Is it there yet?

Oh, where exactly are you going to put it, anyway?

And, by the way . . .

Is it there yet?
Is it there yet?
Is it there yet?

:D

KA. (Who is jumping up and down in the back seat!)

[Lord Liaden]

For people who own European Enemies and have noticed the (frequent and often severe) math errors and writeup inconsistencies in that book; Michael Surbrook has put up edited and annotated versions of the EE characters (in 4E HERO System) on his fine website, "Surbrook's Stuff":

http://www.devermore.net/surbrook/revisedhero/herorev.html

Note: these writeups are hosted with DoJ's permission, since Hero Games are unlikely to want to use them in future. :rolleyes:

[Susano]

Originally posted by Lord Liaden
For people who own European Enemies and have noticed the (frequent and often severe) math errors and writeup inconsistencies in that book; Michael Surbrook has put up edited and annotated versions of the EE characters (in 4E HERO System) on his fine website, "Surbrook's Stuff":

http://www.devermore.net/surbrook/revisedhero/herorev.html

Note: these writeups are hosted with DoJ's permission, since Hero Games are unlikely to want to use them in future. :rolleyes:

Yeah, Steve basically asked for a fork so he could edit his memeory and forget ever seeing them. I never got the secret pages, so some of my comments (like on EBs with +1 STUN) don't stand in the face of the offical corrections, however the rest (mainly dealing with how nonsensical the character sheets are) do.

PS: Looking at the page, I realize I will probably never do a 5th edition revision, so should take that sentence out.

[Lord Liaden]

Actually, IMHO there are a few EE characters who, once you tidy up the errors and inconsistencies in their writeups, are pretty decent and usable. I've used Cavalry, the Bastion of Budapest (a rather original and distinctive concept) and the Huntsman of the Black Forest in past globe-trotting games.

[Dr. MID-Nite]

I agree with you. Some of the ideas were sound. Just the logic was way off....like Maximum Overdrive with a 50 EGO. SHEESH!!! I've a version of Glacier in my own campaign updated to 5th and with a new origin.

Rob

[BobGreenwade]

I agree about some of the EE characters being halfway decent... I actually liked Doppleganger, enough to add her to the Eurostar roster (and later to the VOICE roster, when I was going to do the VOICE update for 4E Hero).

OTOH some were just offensive... I hated the Thespian so much, I actually killed him off twice (once by Genocide, then resurrected him to be soon killed again by the Huntsman of the Black Forest).

[Vondy]

I used Carpathia ONCE. That was amusing.

[Armitage]

Originally posted by Susano
I never got the secret pages, so some of my comments (like on EBs with +1 STUN) don't stand in the face of the offical corrections

Those may be in the errata or they may be something I wrote in my book along with the errata because of the obvious error. I don't remember.
Your versions still kick @$$ though.

[Dr. MID-Nite]

My version of Glacier I built as an Automaton, but he(it?) only takes BODY. Gave him a PD?ED of 19 and 80 STR and I was good to go. Plus, I think I gave him an NND "Blizzard Breath." I don't remember if the original had this, but my version does.

Rob

[Killer Shrike]

Who cant love the Despoiler? :D

Not to start another "this book sucked" riff, but I can honestly say that none of the other old champs stuff ever made me laugh quite so hard :p

[Derek Hiemforth]

Hey Ben, did you ever get a chance to post the "Especially Secret Page" in the Free Stuff section?

[Ben Seeman]

Originally posted by Derek Hiemforth
Hey Ben, did you ever get a chance to post the "Especially Secret Page" in the Free Stuff section?
Ummm, errr, uhhh, yeah... it's up... yeah... it's been up for... uh... quite some time now... like 10... 15 seconds... :)

It's at the very bottom of the main Free Stuff page. :)

[BobGreenwade]

Good job, Ben.

Now go put some more of my ships in the STKO. ;)

[Dr. MID-Nite]

Originally posted by Killer Shrike
Who cant love the Despoiler? :D

Not to start another "this book sucked" riff, but I can honestly say that none of the other old champs stuff ever made me laugh quite so hard :p

Actually, I didn't mind the idea of a nihilist villain, but the writeup was poor. I'm considering updating The Despoiler to 5th Edition like I did Glacier. My take is that The Despoiler was intended to be very powerful, so spending 700+ points isn't out of the question. I remember his stats being odd....like 30 EGO, but only 20 PRE. I'd probably swap those two stats myself. The energy field that surrounds him would probably be better done as some sort of decaying Transform...or perhaps a BODY Drain. Only thing that's hard to explain is how he can walk around with everything being constantly blasted. I'd definitely remove the always on limitation he had.

Rob

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by Dr. MID-Nite
Actually, I didn't mind the idea of a nihilist villain, but the writeup was poor. I'm considering updating The Despoiler to 5th Edition like I did Glacier. My take is that The Despoiler was intended to be very powerful, so spending 700+ points isn't out of the question. I remember his stats being odd....like 30 EGO, but only 20 PRE. I'd probably swap those two stats myself. The energy field that surrounds him would probably be better done as some sort of decaying Transform...or perhaps a BODY Drain. Only thing that's hard to explain is how he can walk around with everything being constantly blasted. I'd definitely remove the always on limitation he had.

Rob He was the worst of the lot....just enough redeeming conceptual value to want to use him in some way shape or form, but so flawed that you basically couldnt. That whole book is IMO one of the worst gaming supplements ever printed.

But, in an odd way highly amusing -- like a Champions spoof packed full of inside-joke conceptual errors that only major Champion geeks would get a laugh out of.

IMO, and I bow before all of your greater collected wisdom on the matter of course :D

[Jhamin]

Originally posted by Killer Shrike
He was the worst of the lot....just enough redeeming conceptual value to want to use him in some way shape or form, but so flawed that you basically couldnt.

That's a really good summation of The Despoiler.

Not that I didn't rewrite him so that he could do what they said he could and use him anyway. How can you not like somebody who is a cross between pure Entropy and Taz?

Despoiler ended up being a key player in my "Crisis" style game that marked my groups trasition from 4th to 5th Ed.

[Susano]

All of a sudden (having seen the errata) I have this desire to update the cast of EE to 5th, include all the errata, and see what I get. Err... provided that's still okay with DOJ.

[misterdeath]

That sounds cool to me.

Anyone else?

Quick Turn on the SteveSignal...

D

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by Susano
All of a sudden (having seen the errata) I have this desire to update the cast of EE to 5th, include all the errata, and see what I get. Err... provided that's still okay with DOJ. Not sure if this should be classified as sadistic or just masochistic -- or both. ;)

[Susano]

Originally posted by Killer Shrike
Not sure if this should be classified as sadistic or just masochistic -- or both. ;)

Or just me rambling.

Oh, I did have the entire cast of EE fight it out on my living room floor using the revised versions I made. Gawain won (IIRC), but the results were really, really messy.

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by Susano
Or just me rambling.

Oh, I did have the entire cast of EE fight it out on my living room floor using the revised versions I made. Gawain won (IIRC), but the results were really, really messy. So long as they were also fatal in most cases, I think we can all live with that :D

[Susano]

Originally posted by Killer Shrike
So long as they were also fatal in most cases, I think we can all live with that :D

Very fatal. Maruader's 3d6 RKA Extended Explosion blanketed the map (and ended up killing quite a few). IIRC, 75% of the charaters ended up dead, mainly because they'd been KO'd by other attacks, and then that Explosion when off. Twice.

[Dr. MID-Nite]

Originally posted by Killer Shrike
He was the worst of the lot....just enough redeeming conceptual value to want to use him in some way shape or form, but so flawed that you basically couldnt. That whole book is IMO one of the worst gaming supplements ever printed.

But, in an odd way highly amusing -- like a Champions spoof packed full of inside-joke conceptual errors that only major Champion geeks would get a laugh out of.

IMO, and I bow before all of your greater collected wisdom on the matter of course :D

It was pretty bad. A mish mash of illogical elements, poor game mechanics, and bad math. Still, some of the characters were usable conceptually.....provided you took the time to update them. On the other hand, some of the concepts you might as well throw out the window....like Mastadon and Eclipse(they were especially bad).

Rob

[Enforcer84]

I think I used Bastion of Budapest, Carpathia, Cavalier, and three self made heroes to create Euroforce.
If I remember one of the characters was the son of former WWF wrestler Ivan Putski (Michael; who did wrestle for a while and I kind of liked for some reason).