When do *we* find out?

[BobGreenwade]

So the schedule for 2005 is supposed to be announced at DunDraCon...

...and when do we on the boards (and website) get to find out? I know I'm being impatient, but that's just me all over, and I'm really chomping at the proverbial bit here! :D

[Blue]

I hear ya. I tried to pry some of it out of Steve in the Thursday chat a week ago... no luck.

I hope we don't have to wait until the Friday news update.

Whattya wanna see?

I want...
--5e Cyber Hero
--5e Pulp Hero (Justice Inc.)

[Rigel]

I seem to recall that someone attending the convention posted a list of the planned books on the boards within hours of the official announcement. Steve's Friday post was the first official listing, confirming the 18 titles. Hopefully, the same will happen this year and we'll get the list tonight at some point.

Personally, I am very curious about the 2005 schedule, but I don't know that I have any favorites I'm hoping for. My hopes have already been dashed a bit, since I was most excited about new Star Hero books.

[BobGreenwade]

Originally posted by Rigel
I seem to recall that someone attending the convention posted a list of the planned books on the boards within hours of the official announcement. Steve's Friday post was the first official listing, confirming the 18 titles. Hopefully, the same will happen this year and we'll get the list tonight at some point. I recall something very similar from last year, including an official list well before this point. That's a part of why I've been so anxious to see the list.
Personally, I am very curious about the 2005 schedule, but I don't know that I have any favorites I'm hoping for. My hopes have already been dashed a bit, since I was most excited about new Star Hero books. Again, I'm in the same (or a very similar) situation. I'm pretty sure we'll be seeing Galactic Federation, and probably no other Star Hero books in next year's schedule (unless Scourges Of The Galaxy is moved from this year to next, in which case that will be the sole book). I'm holding out hope that next year's Ultimate entries will be useful for SH -- I'm thinking The Ultimate Mentalist and The Ultimate Gadgeteer would be good.

(Just before the end of the ICE Age, Dave Mattingly and I had been working with Bruce H on a proposal for TUG. As much as I'd like to follow through on that, though, I rather suspect that Steve will want to author this one himself.)

[Monolith]

Originally posted by BobGreenwade
(Just before the end of the ICE Age, Dave Mattingly and I had been working with Bruce H on a proposal for TUG. As much as I'd like to follow through on that, though, I rather suspect that Steve will want to author this one himself.)
I think the general plan is to keep as much writing "in-house" as possible. Between Steve, Darren, and Allen a lot of books can get written, and it saves on writer's fees as well. IIRC there are only 4 books on this year's schedule not written by the three of them (The Ultimate Brick, The Ultimate Mystic, The Mystic World, and Villainy Amok).

[BobGreenwade]

Originally posted by Monolith
I think the general plan is to keep as much writing "in-house" as possible. Between Steve, Darren, and Allen a lot of books can get written, and it saves on writer's fees as well. IIRC there are only 4 books on this year's schedule not written by the three of them (The Ultimate Brick, The Ultimate Mystic, The Mystic World, and Villainy Amok). That's my impression as well.

[Steve Long]

We'll post the schedule when Ben gets back in the office and has time -- probably next Wednesday. Until then, you'll just have to wait, or hope that a fan here at the show posts on the subject. ;)

[BobGreenwade]

With that, I'm OK now. :D

[Steve Long]

Actually, I suppose I can provide a few highlights:

European Enemies II: The perennial fan favorite now has a sequel! The instances of rules violations and mistranslations have been increased for added fun!

American Enemies: Fans from outside the US create villains based on American stereotypes! Thrill to the criminal exploits of The Ugly American, Tex, Captain Bayou, and more!

GURPS Hero: The ultimate system crossover!

The Ultimate Crustacean: Advanced and expanded rules for creating and playing crabs, lobsters, and similar oceanic denizens.

[Edsel]

Originally posted by Steve Long
The Ultimate Crustacean: Advanced and expanded rules for creating and playing crabs, lobsters, and similar oceanic denizens. I had a character once whose sidekick was Rodney the Wonder Carp. But this could be an interesting change of pace.

However, in all seriousness, I want Dark Champions so very badly. Is it still on for the middle of this year sometime?

[BobGreenwade]

Originally posted by Steve Long
The Ultimate Crustacean: Advanced and expanded rules for creating and playing crabs, lobsters, and similar oceanic denizens. Will this be followed up by the Suicide Squid campaign setting book? ;)

[lemming]

Originally posted by Steve Long
Actually, I suppose I can provide a few highlights:

For an April 1 release?

[Southern Cross]

So I'm not the only one to spot Steve's little joke.....

[Southern Cross]

Still,a GURPS Hero book would be nice.It would be quite useful to be able to convert the GURPS Mana Enhancer Advantage into Hero System terms.

[Steve Long]

Yes, Dark Champions is still on the schedule for mid-year -- specifically, GenCon. Lots of modern-day action-adventure will be heading your way soon! :)

[Talon]

Will TUC contain stats for Barnacle Boy?

[Balok]

But the question on everyone's lips has to be: Will Dark Champions include the write-up for The Harbinger of Justice, perhaps with *even more* experience to reflect the passage of time since the last version? And how about the eerily Steve Longesque "Timothy G. Gersh"?

Inquiring minds want to know! :)

[Toadmaster]

Originally posted by Steve Long
Actually, I suppose I can provide a few highlights:

GURPS Hero: The ultimate system crossover!

The Ultimate Crustacean: Advanced and expanded rules for creating and playing crabs, lobsters, and similar oceanic denizens.

OOOOh, I'll have to dig out my Creeks and Crawdads for source material.


And while I realize GURPS HERO is a joke I agree that it would be a very handy source book. I have many GURPS books which work nicely for HERO and from the other side I think StarHERO and Fantasy HERO are better than the GURPS Space or GURPS Fantasy (although I do like the yrth setting)

[Chris Goodwin]

Originally posted by Steve Long
American Enemies: Fans from outside the US create villains based on American stereotypes! Thrill to the criminal exploits of The Ugly American, Tex, Captain Bayou, and more!


I might actually buy this one!

[Cybrarian]

Originally posted by Talon
Will TUC contain stats for Barnacle Boy?

And don't forget his sidekick, The Shrimp!

[Bazza]

European Enemies II: The perennial fan favorite now has a sequel! The instances of rules violations and mistranslations have been increased for added fun!
Will it have errata or is not having it one of it's selling points? Or ithe errata contains more rules violations and mistranslations if the write-ups actually follow the rules.

:cool:

[SCUBA Hero]

Originally posted by Steve Long
European Enemies II: You very bad man!!!

;)

[Derek Hiemforth]

Originally posted by SCUBA Hero
You very bad man!!!

;) You can blame me for that one. I suggested it to Steve at DDC. ;)

[keithcurtis]

Originally posted by Blue
I hear ya. I tried to pry some of it out of Steve in the Thursday chat a week ago... no luck.

I hope we don't have to wait until the Friday news update.

Whattya wanna see?

I want...
--5e Cyber Hero
--5e Pulp Hero (Justice Inc.)

Eerily enough, one of these guesses is correct.

Keith "loves prolonging the suspense" Curtis

[misterdeath]

Originally posted by Steve Long
Actually, I suppose I can provide a few highlights:

European Enemies II: The perennial fan favorite now has a sequel! The instances of rules violations and mistranslations have been increased for added fun!

Kick ass. Don't forget the mislabeled countries on the maps. I want to see something that makes Hero Designer choke from the rules violations. +1 Stun Modifier on an EB, my butt.


American Enemies: Fans from outside the US create villains based on American stereotypes! Thrill to the criminal exploits of The Ugly American, Tex, Captain Bayou, and more!

Even cooler. Look back through your comics and pull all of the stereotypes right on out.


'URPS Hero: The ultimate system crossover!

Oooh. Whole new levels of ... fun.

And people thought Fuzion was a bad idea....


The Ultimate Crustacean: Advanced and expanded rules for creating and playing crabs, lobsters, and similar oceanic denizens. [/B]

Finally, DW got that on the Schedule? I tried telling him that he wanted Ultimate Aquatic Primate, but ...

D

[BobGreenwade]

Originally posted by keithcurtis
Eerily enough, one of these guesses is correct.

Keith "loves prolonging the suspense" Curtis Oh, so you know the list, then, Keith? In that case...

Spill it.

[Jhaierr]

EVIL, Keith. Evil. ;)

[Blue]

Originally posted by Steve Long
Actually, I suppose I can provide a few highlights:

European Enemies II: The perennial fan favorite now has a sequel! The instances of rules violations and mistranslations have been increased for added fun!

American Enemies: Fans from outside the US create villains based on American stereotypes! Thrill to the criminal exploits of The Ugly American, Tex, Captain Bayou, and more!

GURPS Hero: The ultimate system crossover!

The Ultimate Crustacean: Advanced and expanded rules for creating and playing crabs, lobsters, and similar oceanic denizens. This may be the greatest line up of game products in the history RPGs! I'll write you a check right now.

I'm sure these are on the books right after the Hero System adaption of the LotR movies.

[keithcurtis]

OK, here is the list as presented at Dundracon, with two Caveats. First, this is from my notes; I make no claim for accuracy. Second, I am leaving out one item that is sure to be so big that I don't want to accidentally misrepresent it, lest I start unintended controversy. Also, I'm a right rat bastard. :)

2006:
Demon
Allen has revealed this already

Teen Champions
Like the Teen TItans? Power Pack? You'll love this.

Dark Champions Battlegrounds
Full of Keith "Mappy Goodness" Curtis

Hidden Lands
Atlantis, Arcadia and all those folks in the Champions Universe

Underworld Sourcebook
Working TItle. I think this is about crime. A companion to DC

Everyman
Working Title again. Similar to Normals Unbound

Nobles, Knights and Necromancers
Fantasy Hero Bad Guys

Dark Champions, the Animated Series
What it sounds like, though I think it might also address what might be loosely called "Toon Hero"

Champions Worldwide
Just what is Africa like in the CU?

Villains Vandals and Vermin
I think this is a Champions enemies book, thoug it might be DC

Enchanted Items
Want that wand of mile-radius fireballs or the rod of "Smite-Ruler-and-Transfer-Loyalty-of-Population-to-Wielder"? Then this is the book for you. Seriously, a book of magic items.

Ultimate Speedster
What it sounds like

Scourges of the Galaxy
Star Hero Bad Guys

Ultimate Mentalist
All covered with fifth edition goodness

PULP HERO!
This got a tremendous round of applause. This is the big genre book for 2005. Also if it's anything like the Pulp Hero game Darren ran, it's going to be a total winner! It will have an extensive "What life is like in the 20-30s" section.

Asian Bestiary
Go, Michael!

Golden Age of Champions
Lets get us some Ratzis!

Masterminds and Madmen
Some kind of enemies book?

Finally, Hero games will be publishing a fiction anthology. I don't want to say more than it will be in the pulp genre. I'll let Steve give official details when he's ready.

Keep in mind, I have left out the biggest news. I am totally jazzed about it, though!

Keith "partial snitch" Curtis

[Monolith]

Originally posted by keithcurtis
2006:
I certainly hope you meant 2005. :)


Demon
Allen has revealed this already
This one's on the 2004 schedule. :)

[Blue]

Wow! Pulps, Golden Age, and Teen Champions all in one year! 2005 Rocks. Can we just get 2004 over with already?


...damn this year is taking forever!...


[taps foot impatiently]


Maybe if I somehow fooled with the rotation of the Earth around the Sun...

[BlackSword]

:Picks jaw off floor:

I'm gonna need a second job. Sounds like a great line-up. I'll start buttering up some friends for a pulp adventure. A year, that might be enough time to organize game session.

[Monolith]

Originally posted by Blue
Wow! Pulps, Golden Age, and Teen Champions all in one year! 2005 Rocks. Can we just get 2004 over with already?

...damn this year is taking forever!...

[taps foot impatiently]

Maybe if I somehow fooled with the rotation of the Earth around the Sun...
Aren't we Hero gamers getting old enough already? You start fooling around with time and the next thing you know we'll be buying Geriatric Hero to learn about the damage done by gumming food and to see the write-up for Metamucil. :)

[BobGreenwade]

Hmmm.... having to wait until next year for Scourges Of The Galaxy, eh? I guess that means a bit more work for the earlier parts of my TE game.

I also get half my wish list on Ultimate books. Hopefully we'll get The Ultimate Gadgeteer for 2006.

I probably can also get at least a little mileage out of the Asian Bestiary -- I'm definitely getting a copy of it at any rate.

Yes, I think M&M is an enemies book; my guess is that it'd be for Pulp Hero. Most likely Hidden Lands will also be written to be usable with PH (though if it comes first it'll probably be primarily a Champions book).

It looks pretty great overall; I count 18 books on the list, and that's not including the unrevealed book nor the fiction book. So Hero Games continues to inch upward on the scale. :D

[Blue]

I'm curious to see how they're going about the fiction. If it's going to be written by DOJ employees, solicited from many sources, etc.

...no motivated self-interest there... ;)

[keithcurtis]

Originally posted by Monolith
I certainly hope you meant 2005. :)


This one's on the 2004 schedule. :)
Oops and oops. I did give out caveats.

Keith "Swiss Cheese memory" Curtis

[lemming]

Originally posted by keithcurtis
Also, I'm a right rat bastard. :)
But you make nice maps and other things, so we tolerate your rattiness.

On the must buy; Demon, Dark Champions Battlegrounds, Hidden Lands, Champions Worldwide, Ultimate Speedster, Ultimate Mentalist, & Pulp Hero.
And the rest sounds cool. I need to get a better paying job, that's all there is to it.

[misterdeath]

Originally posted by keithcurtis
Oops and oops. I did give out caveats.

Keith "Swiss Cheese memory" Curtis

Going with the Geriatric Hero theme, are we?

D

[keithcurtis]

Originally posted by misterdeath
Going with the Geriatric Hero theme, are we?

D

Henh? What's that? SPEAK UP! ya dang kid! And get some meat on them bones, you look like a durn skellington!

Keith "uhhh, I forget" Curtis

[Monolith]

Overall I think I'm a little disappointed by the schedule. I was hoping for more campaign information and less genre and sub-genre books. I wanted to see DOJ expand what they already have in print, not just give us more unsupported material. As near as I can tell there are only 4 Champions Universe books on the schedule (Hidden Lands, Champions Worldwide, Everyman, and Villains/Vandals/Vermin - I'm not including DEMON as that is listed as a 2004 product).

There's so much of the CU still left undone that's is a little sad to see so much effort put into sub-genre books like Teen Champions, DC:TAS, and Golden Age of Champions that will not be that useful for currently established games. I'm also surprised to see only three Fantasy Hero books (guess the Asian Bestiary goes with FH and not Ninja hero) on the list. I assumed that was a good seller for DOJ.

I guess I need time for it to all sink in, but as it looks right now there's about half the products I have no intention of buying; but 2005 is a long way off. :)

[Ben Seeman]

http://www.herogames.com/Products/sched2005.jsp

[Monolith]

Originally posted by Ben Seeman
http://www.herogames.com/Products/sched2005.jsp
Ben is trying to make us crazy with a dead link. :)

[lemming]

Originally posted by Monolith
Ben is trying to make us crazy with a dead link. :)
It's only dead if you try to jump there without going to the home page.

So I'm guessing that the Revised 5th edition is the big news?

[BlackSword]

Originally posted by lemming

So I'm guessing that the Revised 5th edition is the big news?
Well, from the sounds of everything they plan on adding to it, it definitaly counts as big. Encyclopedia Heroica :).

[yamamura]

I am happy to see Michael's book for Asia finally being release. Also happy to see the world wide Champ book...

G

[Monolith]

Originally posted by lemming
So I'm guessing that the Revised 5th edition is the big news?
Maybe Keith is all excited about The Ultimate Metamorph. :)

[SCUBA Hero]

Originally posted by Derek Hiemforth
You can blame me for that one. I suggested it to Steve at DDC. ;) Oh.

(rephrases previous reaction)

YOU very bad man!!!

;)

[SCUBA Hero]

Originally posted by Monolith
the next thing you know we'll be buying Geriatric Hero to learn about the damage done by gumming food and to see the write-up for Metamucil. :) While reasonable people can, I believe, differ on gumming food damage, Metamucil is clearly a plop device, er, make that plot device.

;)

[Blue]

I seem to recall Steve saying that with the improved layout techniques in the books since FREd they've been able to squeeze more in. So I'm guessing they lay things out in a new way, add the new info and addendum, maybe ad a few new pieces of art, and voila!

I wonder if it will still feature Hex-Man as the cover or if they will feature some zippy new art. (Maybe Hex-man in many different genres of attire ;) )

[misterdeath]

Originally posted by Blue
I seem to recall Steve saying that with the improved layout techniques in the books since FREd they've been able to squeeze more in. So I'm guessing they lay things out in a new way, add the new info and addendum, maybe ad a few new pieces of art, and voila!

I wonder if it will still feature Hex-Man as the cover or if they will feature some zippy new art. (Maybe Hex-man in many different genres of attire ;) )

I'm hoping for Hex man.

Mainly because I do some reading here at work, and it's nice to haul out what looks to be a textbook and start to work on something.

Stealth Gaming.

Oh, yeah. I'm still waiting for the nomex, kevlar, titanium version. Maybe this time...

D

[keithcurtis]

Originally posted by Monolith
Overall I think I'm a little disappointed by the schedule. I was hoping for more campaign information and less genre and sub-genre books. I wanted to see DOJ expand what they already have in print, not just give us more unsupported material. As near as I can tell there are only 4 Champions Universe books on the schedule (Hidden Lands, Champions Worldwide, Everyman, and Villains/Vandals/Vermin - I'm not including DEMON as that is listed as a 2004 product).

There's so much of the CU still left undone that's is a little sad to see so much effort put into sub-genre books like Teen Champions, DC:TAS, and Golden Age of Champions that will not be that useful for currently established games. I'm also surprised to see only three Fantasy Hero books (guess the Asian Bestiary goes with FH and not Ninja hero) on the list. I assumed that was a good seller for DOJ.

I guess I need time for it to all sink in, but as it looks right now there's about half the products I have no intention of buying; but 2005 is a long way off. :)

18 books in one year! 18! and you'll buy half? Sounds like a win-win situation to me!

Keith "Remembers the cold, bleak winter of Hero" Curtis

[Lord Mhoram]

Originally posted by Monolith
There's so much of the CU still left undone that's is a little sad to see so much effort put into sub-genre books like Teen Champions, DC:TAS, and Golden Age of Champions that will not be that useful for currently established games.


Well the product page does list that Teen Hero will have details for Ravenswood Acadamy, and GAC will have WWII CU stuff.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Originally posted by Monolith
Overall I think I'm a little disappointed by the schedule. I was hoping for more campaign information and less genre and sub-genre books.And here we have a perect example of why Hero Games can't please everyone. :)

While I like the campaign setting stuff, and I regularly mine it for inspiration, I (since I run my games in my original world, not in the Hero Universe) find the genre and sub-genre books much more useful than the campaign setting books.

Ah, diversity! :D

I wanted to see DOJ expand what they already have in print, not just give us more unsupported material.I'm not sure what you mean by "unsupported material." There are support books for Champions Universe on there, plus some CU support in the sub-genre books, Fantasy Hero support, Star Hero support, Dark Champions support, and Pulp Hero support to follow Pulp Hero. What exactly are you seeing on the schedule that you consider "unsupported?"

[Monolith]

Originally posted by Derek Hiemforth
I'm not sure what you mean by "unsupported material." There are support books for Champions Universe on there, plus some CU support in the sub-genre books, Fantasy Hero support, Star Hero support, Dark Champions support, and Pulp Hero support to follow Pulp Hero. What exactly are you seeing on the schedule that you consider "unsupported?"
Do you think Golden Age will be supported? DC:TAS will be supported? Teen Champions will be supported? It seems that DOJ has introduced three new genre/sub-genre books that will basically go no where because they will not be supported with follow-up books. I'd rather see DOJ do two things well then do 10 mediocre.

Let's look at the words DOJ will have at the end of this year:

Champions Universe (getting 3 full books and 2 half books)
Terran Empire (getting 1 book)
Alien Wars (getting 0 books)
The Turakian Age (getting 2 books)
The Valdorian Age (getting 0 books)
Hudson City (getting 2 books)
Galactic Champions (getting 0 books)

That's 7 existing campaign worlds that are getting a combined 8 support books. IMO that's undersupported. Why would I want to play a Valdorian game when I know there will be no follow-up product for at least 1.5 to 2 years? Why Galactic Champions? You need to support the campaign worlds you have, not add DC:TAS and GAoC, and Teen Champions, IMO. Yes they're cool books but I want material for the games I'm already playing, not more new games to play.

[Monolith]

Originally posted by keithcurtis
18 books in one year! 18! and you'll buy half? Sounds like a win-win situation to me!
To me it sounds like a failure. A year ago I would have purchased everything DOJ produced. I'm their target audience. I'm a fanboy and I have disposable cash. But I'm to the point now where I'm only looking at buying 12 products of theirs this year and maybe 9-10 next year. I'll be buying more licenses Hero and M&M/SAS material then I will be Hero. That's never a good thing.

[BobGreenwade]

Originally posted by Monolith
Why would I want to play a Valdorian game when I know there will be no follow-up product for at least 1.5 to 2 years? Why Galactic Champions? You need to support the campaign worlds you have, not add DC:TAS and GAoC, and Teen Champions, IMO. Yes they're cool books but I want material for the games I'm already playing, not more new games to play. It seems like you're recommending that, whatever happens next year, 2006 should be a year of campaign support material.

I can certainly get behind that, though I'd consider toolboxes (USPD, STK, FHG, and so forth) to be decent as support material. The same goes for Ultimate books, though to a lesser extent.

Personally I'd like to see a return of "theme" enemies books, more in the Battlegrounds series, maybe some further bestiaries, and full-length adventures.

Someone (I forget the name) has been posting ideas in the Star Hero forum for some cool "color" equipment for the Alien Wars setting. I think this would be a good product for 2006.

I'd also like to see more in the way of multi-genre support, like the HSB and HSVS. I'm not sure what else there could be, but just about anything could count as a good thing. ;)

Just random thoughts here... but while I do think that the 2005 lineup is a mostly good one, I do agree that 2006 should start showing more in the way of setting support.

Not that I'd want to see the Ultimate series neglected (especially The Ultimate Gadgeteer and The Ultimate Base). :D

[Toadmaster]

Well since I have no use for Champs stuff and about 1/2 of the books are for Champs I too will only be buying about 1/2 the line up. I'm pretty darn happy to see DoJ cranking out genre and subgenre books over specific settings. Not complaining just pointing out the problem DoJ has in keeping all of us happy. Woohoo Pulp, now to plant my evil seeds of thought "you are getting sleepy, 2006 schedule will be Western Hero, Wasteland HERO, WarHERO and Horror HERO, oh yeah, also deposit $10,000 in the Toadmaster for President fund (HERO buying fund), when I snap my flippers you will wake up refreshed, now get to work you HERO writing loaffers " :rolleyes:

[keithcurtis]

Originally posted by Monolith
To me it sounds like a failure. A year ago I would have purchased everything DOJ produced. I'm their target audience. I'm a fanboy and I have disposable cash. But I'm to the point now where I'm only looking at buying 12 products of theirs this year and maybe 9-10 next year. I'll be buying more licenses Hero and M&M/SAS material then I will be Hero. That's never a good thing.

Sorry, still sounds win-win to me. You may consider yourself the target audience, but you obviously have different needs from Derek, who as far as I'm concerned purchasees nearly half of the Hero inventory, not just the titles :) And different needs from me, or Mr. D, or Lord Mhoram, or Bob Greenwade, or any of the other folks.
Seriously, if everyonebuys half of the titles, that would put Hero way up on top.

As for buying M&M and SAS, that's just you, again. I won't be buying any of it, because I don't run supers. M&M and SAS aren't going to go belly up because I don't throw my disposable cash their way either.

Keith "Different Strokes" Curtis

PS. None of the speech above was intended with an ounce of animosity, BTW. (Sometimes you have to say that since intent is not always obvious on the Internet).

[Monolith]

Originally posted by keithcurtis
Seriously, if everyonebuys half of the titles, that would put Hero way up on top.
I disagree with that. I think part of the initial excitement of Hero being back in business led to most players buying everything they could get their hands on. So the first year for DOJ was pretty good. The starving throng were feeding. :) But I don't believe that Hero's fanbase is large enough that they can afford to have their fans only purchase half of their books. I think part of the down-swing DOJ has been experiencing this year is due to the fans being more choosy about what they buy.


As for buying M&M and SAS, that's just you, again. I won't be buying any of it, because I don't run supers. M&M and SAS aren't going to go belly up because I don't throw my disposable cash their way either.
No matter how "universal" DOJ wants HERO to be, it will always be Champions and Champs will always be their most popular genre. I would bet good money that at least 75% of their fans use the game for superheroes over any other genre. If DOJ cannot supply us with the product demand then we need to go elsewhere to get it. I bet you'd find that an extremely large percentage of gamers have shelves full of V&V, Marvel, and DCHeroes material, all of which they've tried to convert to Champs during the down-times. I just never thought a superhero down-time would be right in the middle of a system upsurge. :)

[Blue]

I imagine we will see support of subgenre books based on their popularity. Naturally, DOJ would love to see all of them go through the roof, but realistically, they're going to take the ones that sell well and expand on them. That's how business works.

If I could *ONLY* pick a few items off the list, they end up being those subgenre books in many cases. So I don't see any problem with what they are doing.

[Cybrarian]

Originally posted by Monolith
No matter how "universal" DOJ wants HERO to be, it will always be Champions and Champs will always be their most popular genre. I would bet good money that at least 75% of their fans use the game for superheroes over any other genre. If DOJ cannot supply us with the product demand then we need to go elsewhere to get it. I bet you'd find that an extremely large percentage of gamers have shelves full of V&V, Marvel, and DCHeroes material, all of which they've tried to convert to Champs during the down-times. I just never thought a superhero down-time would be right in the middle of a system upsurge. :)

Prior to 2003 I had never bought a Hero product. Looking at the shelf, I now own ten books and non of them are Champions related. I own every SH product, every FH product and three DOJHERO1xx products -- I'll probably pick up UV and a Sidekick soon. I'm not in a hurry to get HSVS, but who knows.

The point being that they have a new fan precisely because they're doing stuff besides Champions. If they continue to support other genres they may well grow the fan base, rather than relying on just the folks who enjoy supers.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Originally posted by Monolith
That's 7 existing campaign worlds that are getting a combined 8 support books. IMO that's undersupported.It seems we just have a different view of what constitutes "support." To me, the campaign book is the support. :)

[Derek Hiemforth]

Originally posted by Monolith
No matter how "universal" DOJ wants HERO to be, it will always be Champions and Champs will always be their most popular genre.To you. :)

"Always" is a long time. I'd argue that the only reason the HERO System hasn't historically given GURPS a stronger run for its money as the dominant universal system is that Hero Games in the past had not done enough genre books and then supported those with world books. In other words, some people haven't really gotten behind the idea of the HERO System as a univeral game in the past, because they look at the FLGS shelf and see 15 books, of which 12 are Champions books and 3 are other stuff. That doesn't convey the idea of "universal" to anyone. The greater the number of non-supers books Hero Games does, the more people will come to view the HERO System as a universal game, IMO.

Besides, it's hardly like Hero Games is abandoning Champions. Of the 33 non-core-rules, non-fiction, books on the 2004 and 2005 schedules, 18 of them are either primarily Champions books, or are as much for Champions as for anything else (like an Ultimate book). And that's not even counting any of the Dark Champions books except DC:TAS...

I know everyone has a different view, but devoting roughly half the schedule to Champions and half to Everything Else (which seems to be about what HG has done) seems like plenty of Champions support to me. :)

[BobGreenwade]

Really, the main problem with expecting more campaign-world support material is that Steve's already pointed out that those kinds of books don't sell so well (outside Champions), while rules and genre books have been. I know I'd love to see Scourges Of The Galaxy this year and Star Hero Battlegrounds, Spacer's Toolkit II, and The Vorsan Expanse next year, but DOJ's experience is that they just wouldn't sell. I've little doubt that these other three books will appear sooner or later, but DOJ really needs to get a bit more momentum going financially before they can promote something not quite so strong.

I'm not sure I'm remembering this 100% correctly, but Steve or one of the other DOJ guys can correct me if I'm getting this wrong, but I think what's been said is that each genre book from here on would get a setting book, an enemies book, and a toolkit, and sales of those last three would determine what else would be done for it. I personally would like to see Battlegrounds added to that list, but on the whole, given the disappointment with the Terran Empire setting, I think it's a financially sound approach.

[SAVeira]

Originally posted by Derek Hiemforth
To you. :)

"Always" is a long time. I'd argue that the only reason the HERO System hasn't historically given GURPS a stronger run for its money as the dominant universal system is that Hero Games in the past had not done enough genre books and then supported those with world books. In other words, some people haven't really gotten behind the idea of the HERO System as a univeral game in the past, because they look at the FLGS shelf and see 15 books, of which 12 are Champions books and 3 are other stuff. That doesn't convey the idea of "universal" to anyone. The greater the number of non-supers books Hero Games does, the more people will come to view the HERO System as a universal game, IMO.

Besides, it's hardly like Hero Games is abandoning Champions. Of the 33 non-core-rules, non-fiction, books on the 2004 and 2005 schedules, 18 of them are either primarily Champions books, or are as much for Champions as for anything else (like an Ultimate book). And that's not even counting any of the Dark Champions books except DC:TAS...

I know everyone has a different view, but devoting roughly half the schedule to Champions and half to Everything Else (which seems to be about what HG has done) seems like plenty of Champions support to me. :)

I have cannot agree with you more. That is just was thinking, with only difference being I count the Dark Champions books :D

S.A. Veira

[Monolith]

Originally posted by Derek Hiemforth
I know everyone has a different view, but devoting roughly half the schedule to Champions and half to Everything Else (which seems to be about what HG has done) seems like plenty of Champions support to me. :)
I want DOJ to support their game worlds Derek. I don't want DOJ to publish 10 different campaign worlds while not supporting what's already done. And I'm not talking about the genre of Champions, I'm talking about the Campaign Worlds of Champions Universe, Hudson City, The Turakian Age, The Valdorian Age, ect. I can clearly understand if a world is not selling to not support it, but I believe you do need to support them until they prove that they're not popular (which is what DOJ did with Terran Empire/Star Hero).

After now learning that The Valdorian Age will not be supported I have zero interest in buying that book when it's published. I'd rather buy a supported d20 campaign world and convert characters then buy a book that will not get additional support material. I just don't have the time or desire to create everything from scratch. I think many of us are in the same boat.

Trying to put out a book for every possible genre is what helped bring the downfall of 4E under the ICE age. All I'm seeing now is DOJ remaking the same mistakes ICE did.

[rjcurrie]

One thing that Hero could do (and they may have already thought about this) for both their Fantasy Hero and Star Hero lines is to include information on using supplements with the various settings. Whether this appeared in the setting book or the supplement would depend upon when each came out.

For example, the Valdorian Age could have information on how to use the Fantasy Hero Grimoire and Monsters, Minions, and Marauders with that setting. Future Fantasy Hero supplements centred primarily around the Turakian Age could then contain sections on using them with the Valdorian Age as well.

As for the subgenre books, I'm not sure what kind of additional support you're looking for. Surely, it is just as easy to adapt a villain from CKC to fit the subgenre as it is to convert a villain from a different game system. But maybe I'm missing something here, so please inform me.

Finally, I'm not sure what you mean about the downfall of 4e during the ICE Age. I was under the impression that any problems and the eventual split of Hero Games from ICE had more to do with the financial problems of ICE than what was actually published.

Rod

[misterdeath]

Originally posted by Monolith
I want DOJ to support their game worlds Derek. I don't want DOJ to publish 10 different campaign worlds while not supporting what's already done. And I'm not talking about the genre of Champions, I'm talking about the Campaign Worlds of Champions Universe, Hudson City, The Turakian Age, The Valdorian Age, ect. I can clearly understand if a world is not selling to not support it, but I believe you do need to support them until they prove that they're not popular (which is what DOJ did with Terran Empire/Star Hero).

Truth. I'd like to see some more support to things. I'd like to see Galactic Federation. And, I'd like a billion dollars and a pony. :)

However, I can see the point Darren made when we were talking about the cancelling of the Galactic Federation. People seem to buy Hero to create their own universes. That means they buy the genre book, and maybe the setting book for ideas.

Gotta go with what sells.


After now learning that The Valdorian Age will not be supported I have zero interest in buying that book when it's published. I'd rather buy a supported d20 campaign world and convert characters then buy a book that will not get additional support material. I just don't have the time or desire to create everything from scratch. I think many of us are in the same boat.

I'm much more interested in the Valdorian age than buying the equivalent Conan d20 book (sorry) It's got the Hero stats, and a start and then I can do the rest.

Because, seeing the idea "Hey, look it's a low magic swords and barbarians game for the Hero system" gets the creative juices flowing.

While it'd be nice to have a book of characters, and some cool info on places and things in the setting, you end up with the "crunchy bits" problem.

AFAIK, even WotC doesn't sell as many sub-setting books as they do main setting books. Because, eventually, you get to the point where what you've created for the book starts stepping on the ideas of the people running the game.

Hero's got the advantage that they can learn from other people's mistakes.

Sub-setting books don't sell? Then don't waste the resources on them.

Personally, I don't like it. I'd like to see more support, too.

But, I'd rather have them produce the Valdorian Age, then maybe in a year or so revisit the setting with a sub-book, than to have them not give me the Valdorian age and me to have to adapt something else to work.


Trying to put out a book for every possible genre is what helped bring the downfall of 4E under the ICE age. All I'm seeing now is DOJ remaking the same mistakes ICE did.

I would have assumed that that was because of the lack of actual product, along with spotty quality rather than the publishing of lots of books.

We got genre/setting books tied in together, rather than genre (create your own setting) and a setting (to mine for ideas).

That's not going to sell. Especially when the settings are ... well, lame.

D

[Lord Mhoram]

Originally posted by Monolith
I want DOJ to support their game worlds Derek. I don't want DOJ to publish 10 different campaign worlds while not supporting what's already done. And I'm not talking about the genre of Champions, I'm talking about the Campaign Worlds of Champions Universe, Hudson City, The Turakian Age, The Valdorian Age, ect.


Whereas I am just the opposite. I don't use any published setting, I always use my own. I want genre and subgenre books, I want ultimate books, I want things that will spur my imagination for my own world. Don't give me info about the published setting, because aside from maybe a character or an idea or two I will never use it. Give me the base campaign book ,because I can steal stuff, but the later books become so interwoven that it becomes harder to steal.

I would rather see the genre supported than a game world.

In the example of Champions Universe, in general I have a low opinion of them. I don't like the world at all, and I don't especially care for a number of the NPCs. It's HERO so I buy it (I'm a collector there in addition to being a gamer) but they sit on my shelf. I use more details from other companies super settings (and mostly my own) than anything from CU - other than of course Dr Silverback- he rocks.
Fantasy - I am working on my FH game. I have FREd, FH, Grimoire, MMM, and the Bestiary on my desk almost all the time. I'll get the Turakian or Valdorian age, flip through it, steal an idea or two and it goes on the shelf as well.

I like the 2005 support line. My base feeling was there was too much specific campaign world support and not enough general books.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Originally posted by Monolith
I want DOJ to support their game worlds Derek. I don't want DOJ to publish 10 different campaign worlds while not supporting what's already done.And what I'm saying is that, to me, the campaign worlds are themselves support for the genre books, and don't require additional layers of support. I mean, how far do you go with that? We have Champions, which is a genre book. Then we have Champions Universe, which is a campaign setting. Then we have Millenium City, which is a sub-campaign setting. how much further does it need to go? Should there be books on neighborhoods within MC? Then books on blocks within the neighborhoods, buildings within the blocks, etc.? Obviously there's a point at which further detail isn't needed.

For me, I think that point is at the first book in most cases, perhaps with a few second-level books for particularly notable areas. That's plenty for me. I think many game worlds detail way too much stuff, and don't leave nearly enough room for me to fit my game into it (even if I used it as an out-of-the-box game world, which I rarely do).

So if they do The Valdorian Age, that is itself support for Fantasy Hero, and further books in the Valdorian Age setting may or may not be needed. If there's some kingdom or city or campaign focus area that's particularly important (like Millenium City and Vibora Bay are for Champions Universe), then maybe they can get their own books. But to me, that's plenty. There doesn't need to be a book micro-detailing every part of the world.

IMO, the problem with Hero Games during the I.C.E. Age and earlier wasn't that Fantasy Hero (or Star Hero or whatever) failed because there wasn't Forgotten Realms-level support for some particular setting... it's that there were no settings published at all.

We just conceive of "support" differently. I care more about supporting the genre books with multiple sub-genres and campaign settings than I do about supporting the individual campaign settings with sub-settings. If Hero Games published The Turakian Age, the Valdorian Age, and Tuala Morn, I would consider that to be more "support" than if they just published The Turakian Age and two books further detailing the world of The Turakian Age.

The broader the type of support... the more different styles of play they cover, the more universal it makes the system and the more useful I find it to be.

As always, that's just my .02, and YMMV. :)

[Toadmaster]

Originally posted by Derek Hiemforth
To you. :)

"Always" is a long time. I'd argue that the only reason the HERO System hasn't historically given GURPS a stronger run for its money as the dominant universal system is that Hero Games in the past had not done enough genre books and then supported those with world books. In other words, some people haven't really gotten behind the idea of the HERO System as a univeral game in the past, because they look at the FLGS shelf and see 15 books, of which 12 are Champions books and 3 are other stuff. That doesn't convey the idea of "universal" to anyone. The greater the number of non-supers books Hero Games does, the more people will come to view the HERO System as a universal game, IMO.


I'd agree with that, while I started with the HERO system through Champions I really started playing heavily when it moved into other genres, unfortunately these other genres never had much support, JInc and DI / Esp got a few adventures each and FH did the best with 2 compendiums, all the others got a genre book and good night off to print more Champs. While I'm pretty sure HERO will always support Champs way more than I need at least DoJ is showing some real support for the other genres and can actually be viewed as a challenger to GURPS. I don't know what the actual issues behind the ICE failure was but they along with several other established game companies (GDW, TSR, FGU, Leading Edge etc) went down for reasons I suspect that had little to do with what HERO books got printed, MERP and RM were good sellers on their own.

[Monolith]

Originally posted by Derek Hiemforth
I mean, how far do you go with that? We have Champions, which is a genre book. Then we have Champions Universe, which is a campaign setting. Then we have Millenium City, which is a sub-campaign setting. how much further does it need to go? Should there be books on neighborhoods within MC? Then books on blocks within the neighborhoods, buildings within the blocks, etc.? Obviously there's a point at which further detail isn't needed.
First off, I think it's odd that you can praise Gold Rush Games for giving us a book like Dragon's Gate - which does nothing but detail one small section of San Angelo - and then state that further detail is not needed for the Champions Universe. :)

How much further information is needed, IMO?

PRIMUS and other government agencies and projects
Is there anyone playing in a CU game who isn't using PRIMUS?

ARGENT
They are one of the "Big 4" criminal organizations. Shouldn't they be written up?

IHA
Another of the "Big 4." Is the mutant hunting organization not worthy of a book?

The High Apostic Church
Hopefully this will be fully detailed in Vibora Bay, but if not why have it if it's not going to get filled out?

L'Institute Thoth
It's important enough to get some paragraphs, is not not important enough to get flesh out?

ACI and Franklin Stone, as well as things from the Corporate World
Shouldn't the "Lex Luthor" of the CU get a book, as well as all the other major corporations?

Star*Guard Organization
Shouldn't some information be given about the CU "Green Lantern Corp" as well as information about the various addition alien threats that have and might attack the Earth?

Any information on the 200 superheroes in the CU.
Shouldn't we see info on the Sentinels and Justice Squadron, maybe some of the Canadian teams, or any of the other heroes?

And that's just the few I can name off the top of my own head in 5 minutes, and just about one campaign genre.

I'm sorry, but I don't think it's too much to ask to fleshout what they've already began rather than to continuously start new projects. Obviously YMDV, but I wonder if you'd be arguing the other side of the equation if I had said I was disappointed that DOJ published too many non-genre books.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Originally posted by Monolith
First off, I think it's odd that you can praise Gold Rush Games for giving us a book like Dragon's Gate - which does nothing but detail one small section of San Angelo - and then state that further detail is not needed for the Champions Universe. :)There's a difference between San Angelo and the Champions Universe. The latter is aiming primarily (as I see it) to provide a big, wide-open supers world to play in. As such, its followup books tend to be broader in scope. San Angelo is aiming primarily to provide a single, largely self-contained city to base a campaign in. So its second-level books are of course detailing smaller pieces of San Angelo. (Just as the second-level books for Champions Universe detail smaller pieces of the Champions Universe.)

But that's the difference in scope between them. Just as I argue that Champions Universe doesn't need books detailing neighborhoods of Millenium City (a "third-level" book, if you will), likewise San Angelo doesn't need third-level books detailing smaller sections of The Dragon's Gate (for example).

Besides, I think San Angelo stuff is good... I never said I thought it was useful. ;) (I'm kidding here, of course. But I do think the San Angelo main book is more useful than The Dragon's Gate. See below.)

How much further information is needed, IMO?
(snip list of areas for expansion)That all looks fine to me, but I don't see a pressing need to get them all out by next year. There are already things on the schedule for the rest of 04 and now for 05 that continue to detail the Champions Universe. I just think that's sufficient. There will be an 06 schedule, and I'm sure there will be Champions Universe-related stuff on it. :)

I'd rather see them continue to broaden the line than to let other genres, sub-genres, or settings go untouched while they delve deeper into one of their existing settings. We simply want different things. :)


I'm sorry, but I don't think it's too much to ask to fleshout what they've already began rather than to continuously start new projects. Obviously YMDV, but I wonder if you'd be arguing the other side of the equation if I had said I was disappointed that DOJ published too many non-genre books. No, I wouldn't. 'Cause truth be told, it wouldn't have bothered me if the 2005 schedule had even more genre, sub-genre, and Ultimate books, and fewer setting and sub-setting books. I think the schedule is fine as it is, because I recognize that many gamers find specific information to be more useful than general information. But I personally find general information to be more useful than specific information.

I'm just weird that way. (And I mean that seriously; I know a lot of people find that stance to be unusual.) I find genre books and Ultimate books to be of roughly equal utility. Then sub-genre books like, say, Teen Champions. Then powers books like USPD and FH Grimoire. Then broad campaign settings like Champions Universe or Terran Empire. Then character books like CKC or Everyman. Then organization books like VIPER and UNTIL. Then campaign sub-settings like Millenium City. And lastly, pre-made adventure books (although the Battlegrounds line is greatly aided in its utility by having the re-usable maps and detailed area descriptions).

If you look at that hierarchy, I generally find books to be more useful the less specific they are. If someone published a book of 128 single-page adventure outlines, for example, I would find that much more useful than a single, detailed, 128-page adventure. The more focussed something is, the harder it is to fit it into my game.

So I think that's why we're coming at this from different angles, Monolith. It sounds like you prefer plenty of detail, while I prefer more generic overviews. :)

[rjcurrie]

Well, Derek, besides our shared psych lim of "Must buy all things Hero", we also share the same "weird" fondness of general over specific. And I know we are not alone in this view. I know of several other Hero GMs who feel this way not only about Hero but about other game systems as well.

[Monolith]

Originally posted by Derek Hiemforth
If you look at that hierarchy, I generally find books to be more useful the less specific they are. If someone published a book of 128 single-page adventure outlines, for example, I would find that much more useful than a single, detailed, 128-page adventure. The more focussed something is, the harder it is to fit it into my game.
You might find this interesting when it is sold then:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/kperrine/HeroHooks/HERO_HOOKS.htm

I'd also like to see a book as you decribe above; I'd just like to see it with with Millennium City connotations. :)

As a CU gamer I don't feel as though I have enough information about the universe. And yes, I'd like to see more detail on Millennium City. For gamers who don't have a great deal of free time it's easier to take away detail that it is to create it from scratch. As others have said on these boards, there's nothing worse than having to create something from scratch and then retro-fit it 2 years later because DOJ finally gets around to publishing something. We play in the CU because we don't have the time to create and fleshout our own worlds.

[Plucky]

Speaking about psychological limitation, I have purchased every single Hero book within 2 months of it's publication over the last two year. And FRED is the ONLY book I've actually read. In addition, I will continue to get every single one of the books on the list over the next two years in spite of that and regardless of how useful it might be to me.

I...have...problems...

Don't think I'm a preferred-type of customer since I would not be as effective at getting new Hero players.

Plucky

[BobGreenwade]

Originally posted by Monolith
You might find this interesting when it is sold then:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/kperrine/HeroHooks/HERO_HOOKS.htm Now if only someone would do something like this for sci-fi... ;)
As a CU gamer I don't feel as though I have enough information about the universe. And yes, I'd like to see more detail on Millennium City. For gamers who don't have a great deal of free time it's easier to take away detail that it is to create it from scratch. As others have said on these boards, there's nothing worse than having to create something from scratch and then retro-fit it 2 years later because DOJ finally gets around to publishing something. We play in the CU because we don't have the time to create and fleshout our own worlds. Again, I'm the same way with the TE. I was very disappointed at the scaling-back, even though I completely understand the reasons behind it. The only hope I have of not having to retrofit stuff (other than letting what I've done overrule the newly-published material) will be to convince Steve to let me write up my creations for publication once the time does come to expand more on the TE setting.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Originally posted by Monolith
You might find this interesting when it is sold then:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/kperrine/HeroHooks/HERO_HOOKS.htmCool! Thanks for the tip! :)

[lemming]

Originally posted by Plucky
Speaking about psychological limitation, I have purchased every single Hero book within 2 months of it's publication over the last two year. And FRED is the ONLY book I've actually read. In addition, I will continue to get every single one of the books on the list over the next two years in spite of that and regardless of how useful it might be to me.

I...have...problems...

Don't think I'm a preferred-type of customer since I would not be as effective at getting new Hero players.
Cats tend to like perching on top of books, so I can see this...
I know one of my cats likes the pile of Hero books to look out the window...

[Blue]

Originally posted by Plucky
Speaking about psychological limitation, I have purchased every single Hero book within 2 months of it's publication over the last two year. And FRED is the ONLY book I've actually read. In addition, I will continue to get every single one of the books on the list over the next two years in spite of that and regardless of how useful it might be to me.

I...have...problems...

Don't think I'm a preferred-type of customer since I would not be as effective at getting new Hero players.

Plucky Sure you are! Okay, I'm sure they'd like you to be more... "evangelical" in your delivery of the gospel of Hero, but anyone who buys the product is exactly who they want.

And I feel your pain. I've bought EVERYTHING 5e. The ones I *need* I read quickly (often missing details). The ones I don't need right away (Mostly Star Hero and some FH) are on my shelf collecting dust with the promise that maybe "Someday" I'll get to run a game of them.

[Steve Long]

Don't think I'm a preferred-type of customer since I would not be as effective at getting new Hero players.

Someone who buys all our books is a top-notch customer as far as we're concerned! Recruiting other players is always cool, but buying books is even better. ;)

[lemming]

Originally posted by Blue
And I feel your pain. I've bought EVERYTHING 5e.
I've bought most 5e, but have the same problem.
A) I need a better paying job.
B) It also needs to be where I get to read Hero books.

[slaughterj]

Originally posted by Monolith
You might find this interesting when it is sold then:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/kperrine/HeroHooks/HERO_HOOKS.htm

I'd also like to see a book as you decribe above; I'd just like to see it with with Millennium City connotations. :)


I recall seeing a website out there with a bunch of hooks for fantasy adventure - anybody got a link to that?

[bcholmes]

Originally posted by Monolith
PRIMUS and other government agencies and projects
Is there anyone playing in a CU game who isn't using PRIMUS?

Me. Canadian campaign.

[Monolith]

Originally posted by bcholmes
Me. Canadian campaign.
Well, we don't count the Canadians. :)

I'll bet you'd like a new Champions Of The North though! :)

[Monolith]

Originally posted by slaughterj
I recall seeing a website out there with a bunch of hooks for fantasy adventure - anybody got a link to that?
Sorry, I haven't seen that one. No help from me.

[lemming]

Originally posted by Monolith
Well, we don't count the Canadians. :)

I'll bet you'd like a new Champions Of The North though! :)
I actually don't use PRIMUS either. Had a home grown version before hand. Though the similarities are close enough so Shelley shouldn't be too miffed at me. ;)

[GestaltBennie]

Originally posted by bcholmes
Me. Canadian campaign.

I can easily see PRIMUS getting involved in a Canada-based CU campaign.

Foreign agencies who show minimal respect to our borders isn't an unknown occurence in the real world, and there's precedent in the comics for Canadian supers who show the same lack of respect to the US border.

Scott Bennie

[bcholmes]

Originally posted by Monolith
Well, we don't count the Canadians. :)


Darn! Snubbed again :-)


I'll bet you'd like a new Champions Of The North though! :)

Actually, I've used a number of <cite>Champions of the North</cite> characters in my campaign. And MISSION is my main PRIMUS equivalent.

[Toadmaster]

Originally posted by Monolith
You might find this interesting when it is sold then:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/kperrine/HeroHooks/HERO_HOOKS.htm


BTRC did something like this for CORPS with PA gaming plots, 13 end of the world scenarios each with about 4 pages to detail each plus some maps of the earth flooded, dried up and ice covered.

http://www.btrc.net/html/catalog.html#CORPS