Should I get Hero Designer/other programs?

[Rerednaw]

Hello, first I should start by saying I've been playing Champions since first edition. I've read some of the comments and reviews covering the changes in 5th edition and I am debating on whether to buy it, especially since no one in my home town (Las Vegas) seems to play the game. It would be a champions game (not NCM hero or Fantasy Hero).

I've viewed some of the information on Hero Designer and I'm not sure if I should pick this up. Apparently version 2 is in the works and I have always been a pencil and paper creator at heart.

However, in the past I have used Heromaker, the DOS based character creator and while a bit clunky I found it to be a fairly decent program. Anything that saves on the math is welcome. :D

So what I was looking for was some opinions on people who have used various Hero System character generators. Should I get one? Should I get this one?

Should I buy everything with the Hero label because I am a fan? :D

Cheers.

[Fitz]

If you want a character generator, I'd recommend Hero Designer. It's very easy to use, it doesn't cost a hell of a lot, and support via these boards is fast and useful (most of the time). I used to use Hero Creator (then MetaCreator) and thought it was good, but now that I have HD I never even look at MetaCreator any more. In fact, come to think of it, I really should uninstall it...

Anyway -- if you need to generate a lot of characters (if you're a GM, for example) HD is a real boon. If you only need to build a character occasionally (most players) it's probably not really necessary. It is handy for checking math and rules adherence though. Personally, I like it and use it a lot, but then I'm the GM for our group, so I do a lot of monster-creatin'.

Is HD a vital, must-have tool? No, it's not. You can live a long and happy life without ever using it once. It doesn't make the rulebooks redundant, and in fact for beginning players especially I'd recommend using Fred to build their first few characters so that they learn their way around the character creation rules.

Will it make a Hero gamer's life easier? Almost certainly.

As for waiting for version 2: it's a wee way off yet, so you might have to wait a while. I'd say, if you've got the spare cash, go for it now.

[nblade]

Well for me, HD is a vital tool. Is it perfect? No its not, but nothing really is. While there are some performance issues for some, it runs amazingly well for being a java application. (I'm still not a fan of Java) Since I'm a Linux Nut, I like the fact that it will run on both my linux box and my windoz box. (I got the CD). I'd say that for me, it cuts my character generation down by at least 60%. Of course it helps that I have prefabs for commonly used items. I also like the fact that Hero Games has released the charcters from CKC and the Beastary out in HD format. It makes modifying them easy. The only other main weak point that most people don't like is there is no direct printing. Instead it has a export template system. It allows one to export to HTML, RTF, and Plain text and then print those in the required viewers. Personally I like this system. The only time it really breaks down is when the character has a lot of powers or skills, since it usually forces them onto another page.

I guess in the end, you have to ask yourself do you have $40 to spend? If yes then by all means pick it up. If you are waiting for V2, you will be waiting till at least December as Dan has not even started work on it yet and doesn't plan to start till late summer/early fall.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Originally posted by nblade
Is it perfect? No its not, but nothing really is.Because of course, everyone's opinions on what would make an app "perfect" are different. :)

[nblade]

Originally posted by Derek Hiemforth
Because of course, everyone's opinions on what would make an app "perfect" are different. :)

Exactly.

[Chaosliege]

I think it was definately worth the money. And every time someone has had a problem, Dan has gone out of his way to help. My only regret is not waiting for the CD. I'm currently rebuilding one of my boxes and I'm going to put Linux on it. Since I only have the Winblows version, I won't be able to use it on that box.

[TechnoViking]

Originally posted by Chaosliege
My only regret is not waiting for the CD. I'm currently rebuilding one of my boxes and I'm going to put Linux on it. Since I only have the Winblows version, I won't be able to use it on that box.
Now that DOJ/Hero Games is on a new server with more bandwidth, maybe they would be willing re-visit the idea of people being able to download multiple HD installers. (hint hint, Steve, Darren, and Ben :)).

I think this would be important to consider, with the new Mac installer coming out soon.

Mike

[Chaosliege]

Originally posted by Mike Basinger
Now that DOJ/Hero Games is on a new server with more bandwidth, maybe they would be willing re-visit the idea of people being able to download multiple HD installers. (hint hint, Steve, Darren, and Ben :)).

I think this would be important to consider, with the new Mac installer coming out soon.

Mike

I second that.. I'd be willing to pay the extra $5 even... :)

[Jemster]

I just ordered the CD for Hero Designer today and can't wait for it to arrive. I figured for a little extra money it'd be worth it if my computer ever decided to go squirrley on me again.

[Domino]

I'm new here, but I've been playing Champions for years, and participated in the long-running Clobberin' Times APA that both Steve Long and Darren Watts belonged to, years ago.

I have to say that Hero Designer is the clunkiest software I have ever run. I am not a computer geek, and don't plan on becoming one. I have created my own website, message boards, and e-business, so I'm not exactly computer illiterate, but this program is ridiculous. Heromaker was easy to run. Hero Creator was a bit more difficult, but with very little effort, I could make my character sheets look great. I can't believe what a horrible mistake I made buying Hero Designer. First, it runs so slowly that it takes 30 seconds to change each window. I don't have a top of the line computer, but it was two years ago! The export templates never make a character sheet look good no matter which one I choose. I have yet to delve into these boards in great detail looking for ways to fix the way this program runs on my computers. But you know what? I shouldn't have to. I want to spend my valuable free time creating new and interesting ways to entertain my players, not to learn how to use tools that are supposed to save time. I have spent more time trying to fix problems than I would have saved writing these characters by hand!

Technology should be transparent. It should make the task it's designed to aid easier, instead of becoming the task itself!

[Derek Hiemforth]

I have to say that Hero Designer is the best Java application of any significance I have ever run. Heromaker had all sorts of trouble with printing, and was scarcely customizable at all. Hero Creator didn't have those same problems, but it didn't implement the rules correctly -- even after years of release -- and doing customization with it required that you learn a new, proprietary programming language rather than being able to work with plain text, widely known, and easily learned standards like HTML and XML. I can't believe what a fantastic decision I made buying Hero Designer! First, although it is not as fast as a native application would be under any given OS, it is pretty fast and very stable by Java standards, and its Java nature makes it possible for it to be available for Linux, Solaris, MacOSX and others, all of which I either run now in addition to Windows, or have run at points in the past. Heromaker and Hero Creator were snobbishly Windows-only. It takes me a second or two to change each window; even on systems with the minimum system configuration, it doesn't take anywhere near 30 seconds. My computer is almost two years old, and wasn't even top of the line when I bought it, but it runs Hero Designer just great! Several of the export templates produce good looking output for various purposes, and Geoff Speare's WG character RTF export template creates output that looks almost exactly like the character format in the published books. I have yet to delve into these boards in great detail looking for ways to fix they way this program runs on my computers. But you know what? I don't have to! I'm allowed to spend my valuable free time creating new and interesting ways to entertain my players, because this useful tool saves me so much time. I have spent more time creating characters because Hero Designer is so much faster than writing characters by hand. ;)

Obviously, the above is a bit tongue-in-cheek. But it's also all true in my experience. I just wanted to post a counter-point to Domino, showing that many folks are very pleased with how Hero Designer works. :)

[Domino]

And I'm glad it works for you. I just wish it worked that well for everyone, which is the mark of a good program.

And my post didn't need a counterpoint, thanks. It was a counterpoint of the glowing recommendations that preceded it. It's called balance.

[Monolith]

Originally posted by Domino
And my post didn't need a counterpoint, thanks. It was a counterpoint of the glowing recommendations that preceded it. It's called balance.
Every counterpoint "needs" a counterpoint. You have not been on internet message boards long if you have not figured that out yet. :)

[Domino]

I have been on internet message boards since their inception. And one thing I do know is that there is never a shortage of cynical, mocking responses to sincere opinion, and I expect it. It doesn't mean I have to accept it, however. And before I contribute to the escalation of a flame war, I will stop now. I said what I have to say about Hero Designer, and will unsubscribe to what it obviously a typical message thread.

[Monolith]

Originally posted by Domino
I said what I have to say about Hero Designer, and will unsubscribe to what it obviously a typical message thread.
The only point you seem to be forgetting here is that if someone disagrees with your opinion, they have the right to state their opinion too. It only escalates when the original poster decides to not give value to other poster's opinions.

You have your opinion and Derek has his opinion. Both are equally valid, even if they are at opposite ends of the spectrum.

My own opinion is that HD works fine on my 512 MB 1.8 Gig desktop. HD runs like molasses 128 MB 1.0 Gig laptop. The program might list 128 MB of memory as "minimum", but I personally think 256 should be the minimum, and really 512 is a better number if you want the program to work quicky.

That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it, no matter what anyone else has to say. :)

[Derek Hiemforth]

Originally posted by Domino
IAnd one thing I do know is that there is never a shortage of cynical, mocking responses to sincere opinion, and I expect it.I was not being cynical... perhaps a bit mocking, though it was genuinely meant in fun. I wanted to respond to the many points you had made, and this seemed like an easier way to do it than a lengthy quote-filled reply. I'm sorry if you were offended. :)

Seriously, though, many of the other points are matters of opinion and taste. But if it's taking 30 seconds to change windows, then something's wrong. There's no way it should be taking anywhere near that long, even on a system at the minimum requirement level. Dan is very responsive to requests for help. Post him a note here, and maybe he can help you figure out why it's doing that. :)

[Ghost Archer]

I, for one, would like to thank Domino for a dissenting opinion, something that seems to be lacking on this board. Rerednaw, I have been asking the same question, "should I buy this product", for some time. Domino's post is the first I have seen that expresses such a level of dissatisfaction with HD. I, too, have used Heromaker and moved on to Creation Workshop/Hero Creator and then to MetaCreator. In each case I have found those programs to be very easy to use and for some reason I never had a bit of trouble getting HeroMaker to print. In fact, I might still be using it if CW/HC hadn't offered the ability to add pictures to the character sheet. When I started my own website, one of the added advantages to HC/MC was the only filter I ever had to download, an HTML 3 column filter that I still use. HD, I get the impression, requires some hunting for a template that suits your needs and software you use to print your character sheets.
Derek says "I have to say that Hero Designer is the best Java application of any significance I have ever run." To me that isn't exactly a glowing recommendation. As Windows is used on what? Over 90% of all computers? Derek is one of a few that require a program to run in multiple OS environments. I would rather see a program dedicated to the Windows environment if it means doing away with inherant JAVA problems. The more I read here, the more convinced I become that I will be sticking with MetaCreator for the foreseeable future.
Oh, I have asked several times but never gotten even a hint of an answer, when is Version 2.0 coming out? Even a ballpark figure?

[nblade]

Ghost Archer, I think Dan is planning on V2 sometime in the winter, since he has not yet to start on it.

As for a windows only program, while I could live with it. I'm happier knowing that I can get a program that runs under linux. Of course consider me part of the minority.

As for sticking to MC, I say stick to what you like. I don't think anyone planned on HD to be the only software.

[Monolith]

Originally posted by Ghost Archer
IOh, I have asked several times but never gotten even a hint of an answer, when is Version 2.0 coming out? Even a ballpark figure?
The answer has been the same on three different Hero Games message boards: Sometime around December of 2003.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Originally posted by Ghost Archer
Domino's post is the first I have seen that expresses such a level of dissatisfaction with HD.Isn't it possible that that indicates a general satisfaction with the product? Doesn't the relative lack of dissatisfied users mean something? If I didn't like Hero Designer, I wouldn't be using it. :)

[Simon]

If you're seeing times for switching tabs on the order of 30 seconds, then you're running in swap space.

This means that either you have way below the minimum system requirements, or you have another application running that is using up most of your available RAM (basically the same thing).

I've tested HD on lower end systems (PIII 200MHz, 128MB RAM) and it's behaved just fine.

[bcholmes]

Originally posted by Ghost Archer
I, for one, would like to thank Domino for a dissenting opinion, something that seems to be lacking on this board. ... Domino's post is the first I have seen that expresses such a level of dissatisfaction with HD.

What theory fits this data?

[Ghost Archer]

Originally posted by nblade
I don't think anyone planned on HD to be the only software.

I can't really agree with this otherwise it would still be possible to purchase Hero Creator from HERO. I think that when DOJ took over they made a decision to produce their own character generation program rather than continue to support AlterEgo's MC. An obvious and sound business decision but not necessarily 'user friendly' as all of those that had purchased HC/MC were left out in the cold. Chris Mullens was given permission by HERO to construct and distribute a 5th Edition version after HD was put on the market, so MC IS getting some support from HERO if indirectly.


Originally posted by Derek Hiemforth
Isn't it possible that that indicates a general satisfaction with the product? Doesn't the relative lack of dissatisfied users mean something? If I didn't like Hero Designer, I wouldn't be using it.

I agree, Derek, it is highly possible but . . . I wonder what the odds of my finding out afterwards that I hate the whole thing? This is why I want to hear from all sides. Please feel free to sing the praises of a great program, but obviously not everyone is satisfied.


Originally posted by Ghost Archer
I, for one, would like to thank Domino for a dissenting opinion, something that seems to be lacking on this board. ... Domino's post is the first I have seen that expresses such a level of dissatisfaction with HD.


Originally posted by bcholmes
What theory fits this data?

Theory? I don't see that I expressed a 'theory', merely made an comment and observation. If I am wrong about Domino's post being the first post that I personally have read expressing dissatisfaction then I will have my eyes checked Monday.

[ShadowRaptor]

I have not used any of the above mentioned programs, but I am going to get HD because it is made for FREd...I am assuming...and because its for 5th edition then that is the one i am going to get.

Besides that, however, what are the legitimate pros and cons of each version?

[MCMaenza]

I have to agree with Jim on this one. I liked HeroMaker. Yes, it was kind of primitive but it worked rather nicely and did the job. I bought HeroCreator back at the San Diego ComicCon a few years back but never could get comfortable with it.

Oh, and add me to the list of Clobberin' Times APA members here. Plus, I gamed with and GMed for Steve Long back in the 90's.

[Simon]

Errr....

Why are you resurrecting a thread from over a year and a half ago....and "agreeing" with someone that either hasn't posted to the thread or who posted under their assumed identity on the boards? I have no idea who "Jim" is in this case......and everything about this thread is outdated.

[lemming]

Because the nature of the internet is the raise dead topics? But yea, the thread is an outdated piece by now. More current threads are available about how Hero Designer has just gotten better and better.