HERO Games 2005 Release Schedule [Archive] - HERO Games Discussion Boards

BobGreenwade

Feb 17th, '04, 01:01 PM

I might as well give my blow-by-blow reactions:

Teen Champions: A good call, I think, since this is probably the most popular "sub-genre" of Champions other than the generic "four-color" campaign. It'll be utterly useless for just about anything I'll be likely to do in a game, but I think it'll sell well.

Dark Champions Battlegrounds: Each genre should have a Battlegrounds book, I think, and this will probably be one of your better sellers in that category since it can also work for regular Champions and even some Fantasy Hero, Pulp Hero, and Star Hero games (at least, the maps can be thus used). Another good choice, the more so from my POV since I'll probably be picking it up and adapting it.

The HERO System 5th Edition, Revised: The main thing concerning me about this, is what happens to the page references from earlier supplements? I mean, I'm all for updating the core rules to include new stuff, and possibly even reorganizing the old stuff (I still think Automaton Powers, Limited Coverage, and similar stuff found in the Equipment section should have been in the main Character Creation section), and I'll definitely pick up a copy or two, but the potential for confusion does concern me somewhat.

The Ultimate Metamorph: The shape- and (presumably) size-changing rules in Hero, though more than adequate for most purposes, could really use the expansive treatment of an Ultimate book at about this point. Of course, this book should be careful to cover fantasy lycanthropes, horror vampires, alien shapeshifters, and others from various genres as well as superheroic types. None of the alien species in the Hero Universe are metamorphs, making this of limited use to my game; however, this could easily change with Worlds Of Empire, and I do have one species of my own creation for whom this could apply.

Hidden Lands: This is another good choice -- provided there's plenty of material for use in a Pulp Hero game. Without that, I don't think this will sell very well.

The Underworld Sourcebook: I assume this is going to have lots of real-world organized crime information, right? Of course. Either way, though, expect this one to be hot; GMs of other systems will want this one.

Everyman: This one's a little harder to call. I may or may not find use for it in my game, but then I'm looking at GMing Star Hero. If each character has some Plot Seeds like in the Enemies books, though, I think it'll at least be satisfactory.

Nobles, Knights, and Necromancers: Though probably useless to me, this will just as probably be a big seller.

Dark Champions: The Animated Series: Going by the description, this is completely not what I was expecting from the title. This looks more like what the original Dark Champions was -- superpowered, costumed vigilante crimefighting, with the old Harby vs. Cardshark battle as the core example. This should sell quite well -- but be sure you have Nighthawk getting creamed on the front cover. ;)

Champions Worldwide: This is something I wanted really, really badly when I was a Champions GM and focusing on superhero stuff. I think it'll be a great book. If it looks like it has international information I could use in my TE game, too, I might just get it for use (as opposed to just for supporting my favorite game company).

Villains, Vandals, and Vermin: Ah, so here's the book where we round out the cast seen in USPD, right? Also some of the other foes a PC team of superheroes might run into. Be sure you keep an eye on the emerging political situation in China, too; things may be changing soon in a way that could affect the Tiger Squad material (I don't have any inside information, just some hints I've seen and heard in the news lately).

Enchanted Items: This is another excellent call -- utterly useless for my own campaign, but I've no doubt it'll sell big. If at least a large share of the items are potentially useful for a Champions campaign (and you're probably way ahead of me on that), it'll go like hotcakes.

The Ultimate Speedster: I'd like to see some tricks that could be done by a highly talented and/or cybernetically enhanced Kolajik in my SH game. Given that, I'll be happy to pick it up. (I'll buy it either way; it's just that said tricks will make me happy to do so. ;)) This should be a good seller -- probably the least of the Ultimate books, but not disappointing by any means.

Scourges Of The Galaxy: Where can I pre-order this? ;) Seriously, I'm expecting to have a bunch of NPCs by then for use in my own game, so if you don't mind including my name as one of these "et al" I'd love to see what you'd think of having them published. They're about half done as I write this. In any event, I think this will "jump-start" a lot of Star Hero games -- not quite enough to pull the Terran Empire out of its sales doldrums, but enough to be encouraging for its future.

The Ultimate Mentalist: Even if this does nothing more than update the original version to 5th Edition, this should be a big seller. There's plenty of this in superheroics, sci-fi, fantasy, and pulp, and I know I'll be grabbing my copy. This could even be a good place to put the psychic powers stuff deleted from the Terran Empire campaign book (or at least some kind of reference to it).

Pulp Hero: The best Hero System game I ever played was a limited-run Justice, Inc. game in Saturday serial style (the cinematic equivalent of pulp novels). I'll be picking this book up mainly so I can add more pulp-like elements to my game. Given Keith's account of the response to the announcement, I think you can expect this one to fly off the shelves -- you might even want to increase the first print run from the usual size. (Maybe. At least think about it.)

The Asian Bestiary: Another book I want to grab. Michael, a fellow Haymaker APAzine member, always has stuff I find entertaining and interesting even when the genre isn't quite up my alley; his Ninja Hero has received some of this highest accolades I've seen for any Hero System book. This one should be a great sourcebook for Fantasy Hero, Champions, and Ninja Hero -- and, depending on how mystical it all is, I might be able to adapt a beast or five for my own purposes. On another note, I actually would have expected to see this earlier in the year, since (from what I gather) Mike's already done with the manuscript, I can only assume that some unknown logistical problem keeps this from happening.

Thrilling Hero Tales: This first foray into fiction publishing ought to be an interesting one. As I noted above, I'd like to be in on it if that's possible. Even if not, I'll certainly be picking it up if only for the curiosity factor.

Golden Age Champions: This, I think, will come in a close second to Teen Champions for a popular, conversation-sparking product. If you give at least some treatment as a historical document -- that is, something usable by GMs of modern-day Champions games as a historical reference, like Alien Wars can be used by Terran Empire GMs -- I think it'll surpass that. "Legacy" characters (carrying forward traditions from World War II to the present), time travelers, and similar things could also make a good connection.

Masterminds And Madmen: Again, here's something I probably won't get right away, but even probably will be a hot seller. If you play this right, some of the villains could even be useful for DC:TAS. ;)

Absolute Hero

Feb 17th, '04, 02:05 PM

PULP HERO
And, I just got myself a copy of good ol' Justice Inc.. I guess I'm just not patient enough. :rolleyes:

Derek Hiemforth

Feb 17th, '04, 02:19 PM

Originally posted by Absolute Hero
And, I just got myself a copy of good ol' Justice Inc.. And wise you were to do so! Just because Pulp Hero will be coming out doesn't mean Justice, Inc. isn't still a worthwhile thing to have. JI's a great product! :)

JmOz

Feb 17th, '04, 02:32 PM

Also I am hoping that JI will be recycled as a settings book

SuperPheemy

Feb 17th, '04, 02:41 PM

All right, since the rest of the DunDraCon HEROs won't tell you, I will. Six months ago, the remnants of Terror, Inc kidnapped Darren and Steve, replacing them with robot doubles (in Steve's case the robot was caffiene-powered). From what my investigations can tell, it was to produce a second version of 5th Edition that would do three things;

First, bring Professor Muerte back from the dead, and reinstate him as "Doctor Destroyer Light" in the Official Champions Universe.

Second, return the Linking rules to the 4th edition wording, so as to spark endless debate again. I believe this is their means by which to distract the HERO gamers on the boards while they secretly...

Third, replace all the sample characters with members of C.L.O.W.N.

There was a proposal to replace the d6 core system with d30s, but Foxbat was discovered within the organization and abandoned on one of the Faulkland Islands.

It's either that, or the game is being updated with material from the FAQ, the Hero Timeline, and other clarifications that have been reached over the preceeding couple of years. My recollection remains fuzzy of any details after the Challenge of the Superfriends game on Friday night.

BenKimball

Feb 17th, '04, 03:04 PM

I notice that Scourges of the Galaxy is listed on both the 2004 schedule and the 2005 schedule.

Cheers,
Ben

Monolith

Feb 17th, '04, 04:47 PM

Originally posted by BenKimball
I notice that Scourges of the Galaxy is listed on both the 2004 schedule and the 2005 schedule.
Scourges and Galactic Federation were both dropped from the 2004 schedule.

Chris Goodwin

Feb 17th, '04, 04:55 PM

Teen Champions: I will almost definitely buy this. A bonus: this plus the TV superheroic subgenre plus Horror Hero = Buffy. :D

Dark Champions Battlegrounds: Probably won't buy this or any of the Battlegrounds books.

The HERO System 5th Edition, Revised: Question: Will there be a list of changes online? Even if not, I probably won't buy this, because money tends to be tight.

The Ultimate Metamorph: My favorite character I ever played was a shapeshifter. You better believe I'm buying this one.

Hidden Lands: Probably won't be buying this. It doesn't do much for me.

The Underworld Sourcebook: I'm not much for Mafia gaming; probably won't buy this one.

Everyman: Might buy this one, might not.

Nobles, Knights, And Necromancers: I probably won't buy this one. Enemies books don't do a lot for me anymore.

Dark Champions: The Animated Series: I might buy this one.

Champions Worldwide: Dunno if I will buy this one. Maybe, maybe not.

Villains, Vandals, And Vermin: I probably won't buy this one (see comments on enemies books above) unless they're exceedingly cool.

Enchanted Items: Perhaps. I do like books of stuff.

The Ultimate Speedster: I'm kind of enh on speedsters.

Scourges Of The Galaxy: See comments on enemies books above.

The Ultimate Mentalist: I have the 4th edition and, unless this one is exceedingly cool I won't buy it.

Pulp Hero: I probably will buy this one, even though I don't do any pulp gaming.

The Asian Bestiary: I'm not big on Asian stuff, so I probably won't buy this one.

Thrilling Hero Tales: Gaming fiction? Enh. If it's less gaming and more fiction, possibly yes, probably no.

Golden Age Champions: I have both the 3rd and 4th edition versions of this. I'm unlikely to buy 5th.

Masterminds And Madmen: If I knew for usre I was going to be doing any pulp GMing, I'd buy this one. Otherwise, probably not.

Edsel

Feb 17th, '04, 05:01 PM

Must, keep working...

Must, earn more money...

Food, unimportant...

Must, buy more Hero books...

Solomon

Feb 17th, '04, 05:17 PM

Originally posted by Beetle
Champions Worldwide: What's up with this? You decided to rename European Enemies II? :p

Hmm. Wasn't "Champions Worldwide" supposed to be the third C:TNM supplement that never quite got to be printed? I remember the ad in "Bay City".

If this is so, aren't you superstitious? :eek:

SCUBA Hero

Feb 17th, '04, 05:52 PM

One of each, please.

(doubles resolve to pass PE exam)

Lord Mhoram

Feb 17th, '04, 10:29 PM

Originally posted by SCUBA Hero
One of each, please.

(doubles resolve to pass PE exam)

One of each indeed, with a double helping for Revised (one for me, one for the wife).

I work one day a week at a local FLG/CS ( a friend of mine bought the place about three years ago, but he sold it a few months ago). I stay working there, because I get everything at cost. That is about the only way I get to keep up on getting _every_ HERO book out there (as well as collecting the MnM and SAS stuff).

Derek Hiemforth

Feb 18th, '04, 02:18 AM

I will of course buy at least one of everything, due to my pesky 20 point Psychological Limitation, Must Own All Things Hero (Common, Total). :D I'll definitely get several copies of H5E Revised, and at least two copies of Pulp Hero.

However, even if I didn't have the Psych Lim, I'd get at least 16 out of the available 18 on the 2005 schedule. Which two I might have otherwise skipped is left as a speculative exercise for the reader. ;)

rjcurrie

Feb 18th, '04, 03:23 AM

My thoughts on the schedule:

Teen Champions: Looking forward to it. This is a subgenre that I've wanted to see more done for. And like many other subgenres, I'm not sure it really needs any more than one book.

Dark Champions Battlegrounds: Might be worth it just for the maps which should be useful for any modern game.

The HERO System 5th Edition, Revised: It will be nice to have the clarifications and additions from the FAQ in one place. And the inclusion of the Hero System Genre by Genre chapter will help give newcomers to the Hero System a better idea of what can be done with the rules.

The Ultimate Metamorph: Ultimate books are always good. And remember that the Metamorph archetype includes not only shape shifters but also Multiforms, Duplicators, Growers, Shrinkers and Stretchers as well.

Hidden Lands: Another book that I'm looking forward to. Hidden lands and cultures such as the ones to be covered in this book help give a superhero universe a sense of wonder. Even if you don't run a campaign set in the Champions Universe, this book should serve as an inspiration for creating your own such societies.

The Underworld Sourcebook: If I didn't share Derek's psych lim, I might consider giving this one a pass. Still, organized crime has a way of finding its way into many campaigns even four color ones. After all, look at how many times Spider-Man has come up against the New York underworld.

Everyman: If the characters provided are interesting enough, they can be useful either directly or as inspiration for creating your own normal characters in other settings.

Nobles, Knights, And Necromancers: Not really being into Fantasy, I'm not so interested in this, but I think it will prove useful for most GMs running Fantasy Hero. And it shouldn't be difficult to adjust these characters for use in other settings besides the Turakian Age.

Dark Champions: The Animated Series: This could prove interesting and like Teen Champions, I don't think this really requires additional support beyond the one book.

Champions Worldwide: This could be fun, assuming that Hero avoids making the characters walking stereotypes, which I am pretty sure they will.

Villains, Vandals, And Vermin: People seem to like enemes books. I'm not so keen on them, but they can prove useful as inspirations.

Enchanted Items: Again, my anti-Fantasy bias reduces my interest but it should prove inspirational for Fantasy GMs.

The Ultimate Speedster: Given I have known the author for almost 20 years, I would probably buy this book whoever published it. Also, I like speedsters so this is another book I am definitely looking forward to.

Scourges Of The Galaxy: Another book I might skip if I didn't have that pesky psych lim. But it might prove useful to those running a Star Hero campaign.

The Ultimate Mentalist: I loked the 4th edition version and if we're lucky, Steve will expand on what ws in the original

Pulp Hero: Oh yeah!!! Finally! I think one of the first questions I ever asked Darren and Steve in the chat room was when they would do a pulp genre book. This is probably my second favorite genre after superheroes.

The Asian Bestiary: This is another book I would probably skip if I wasn't buying them all.

Thrilling Hero Tales: For those who have referred to this as gaming fiction, I don't think that is the case at all. I think this is more an example of a collection of fiction that relates to a gaming genre, as opposed to an attempt to convert gaming expericences into fiction. Like any fiction collection, this will depend heavily upon how good the individual stories are.

Golden Age Champions: I look forward to learning more about the Defenders of Justice and the rest of the Golden Age of the Champions Universe. Plus it will be interesting to see Darren's take on the subgenre.

Masterminds And Madmen: Given my love for the pulp genre, I am definitely looking forward to this one. And with a little adaptation, some of these characters may also prove useful to Golden Age GMs.

Rod

Aroooo

Feb 18th, '04, 05:05 AM

Good thing I rearranged my bookshelves last weekend. Left plenty of room for 2004-2005 releases. Can't wait!

Aroooo

misterdeath

Feb 18th, '04, 05:48 AM

I showed the list to my wife last night. She sighed, "We're going to have to get all of this, aren't we?"

Me, "Yep."

So, there you go. Permission from on high.

D

Hugh Neilson

Feb 18th, '04, 06:44 AM

Now if my FLGS could just locate a distributor who can complete the 2003 releases...:rolleyes:

Siberian Tiger

Feb 18th, '04, 08:32 AM

What I'll buy or not..

Teen Champions: 50/50 on whether I will buy his - guess it depends on how much is background info and how much is playing mechanics. Don't get to rpg much these days so will prefer more focus on background info

Dark Champions Battlegrounds: Maybe, depending on cost

The HERO System 5th Edition, Revised: Nope - happy with what I've got

The Ultimate Metamorph: Never been interested in this type of character

Hidden Lands: Sounds like a good read so will probably purchase even

The Underworld Sourcebook: Can't wait - love this type of stuff - and this is what I use when GM'ing - much prefer the dark, street-level stuff

Everyman: Possibly - depends on how much has been taken from other books such as Normals Unbound

Nobles, Knights, And Necromancers: Don't tend to play Fantasy games so not on my shopping list

Dark Champions: The Animated Series: Definate purchase

Champions Worldwide: Definate purchase - internationally themed games/comics are my favourite genre

Villains, Vandals, And Vermin: Another must especially if it's got an international theme ie Tiger Squad

Enchanted Items: Nope - see comment above re: fantasy games

The Ultimate Speedster: Whilst I'm not into the mechanics of gaming as I prefer the storytelling aspect, I do like speedsters and may purchase this depending on cost.

Scourges Of The Galaxy: Not a great fan of sci-fi but may buy this just to get some ideas for future games

The Ultimate Mentalist: never liked mentalists so wouldn't purchase this (unless I'm telepathically controlled to do so)

Pulp Hero: Probably as I don't know too much about this genre

The Asian Bestiary: Maybe - not sure

Thrilling Hero Tales: Unlikely - not one for Pulp fiction

Golden Age Champions: Depends on how much is reprinted from earlier versions of GAC

Masterminds And Madmen: Sounds like an interesting read

All in all, plenty to look forward to - better tell the wife that plans for starting a family are on hold !

Beetle

Feb 18th, '04, 09:31 AM

Originally posted by SuperPheemy
All right, since the rest of the DunDraCon HEROs won't tell you, I will. Six months ago, the remnants of Terror, Inc kidnapped Darren and Steve, replacing them with robot doubles (in Steve's case the robot was caffiene-powered). From what my investigations can tell, it was to produce a second version of 5th Edition that would do three things;

First, bring Professor Muerte back from the dead, and reinstate him as "Doctor Destroyer Light" in the Official Champions Universe.

Second, return the Linking rules to the 4th edition wording, so as to spark endless debate again. I believe this is their means by which to distract the HERO gamers on the boards while they secretly...

Third, replace all the sample characters with members of C.L.O.W.N. Why are you talking about these things as if they'd be bad? ;)

SuperPheemy

Feb 18th, '04, 09:54 AM

I have to be careful, Steve already docked me 2XP for asking if C.L.O.W.N. would make an appearance in Preadators. It's rough 'cause I was going to use those 2XP to buy Survival (Gaming Con) this week. Instead I was only able to affoard Familiarity KS (Overpriced Con Food).

Maybe I should quit before I'm stuck with a new Psych Lim, or an Extreme Reputation. I don't think my budget can handle Derek's 20 point "Must buy all things HERO" affliction.

Lord Mhoram

Feb 18th, '04, 10:12 AM

Originally posted by rjcurrie
The Underworld Sourcebook: If I didn't share Derek's psych lim, I might consider giving this one a pass.

15 Psych: Must collect all HERO books. Uncommon Total

At least that is I figure how it looks on my Char Sheet.

Monolith

Feb 18th, '04, 10:15 AM

Teen Champions
I'll buy it to get the Ravenswood information.

Dark Champions Battlegrounds
I'll give it a pass. Iron age/dark genre adventures don't interest me.

The HERO System 5th Edition, Revised
I'll give it a pass as well. I'm even considering switching to a Sidekick campaign now.

The Ultimate Metamorph
Not really that interesting to me. 50/50 I'll buy it.

Hidden Lands
I'll buy it to add information to my CU game. I hope they include info on Beast Mountain, Monster Island, Shamballah, The Valley Of Night, and the Kingdom Of The Apes as well.

The Underworld Sourcebook
I'll buy this to add more information about underworld crime to my CU game.

Everyman
This doesn't interest me. I already have Normal Unbound and Denizens of San Angelo. I'm actually of the opinion that normals don't need write-ups, just interesting descriptive passages and a few brief highlights such as important KSs.

Nobles, Knights, And Necromancers
I'll give this a pass. I felt it should have been part of MMM.

Dark Champions: The Animated Series
50/50 I'll buy this. I always liked Batman:TAS so it will depend on what the book looks like.

Champions Worldwide
This is a definate buy, though I hope it has more character write-ups than CU did.

Villains, Vandals, And Vermin
Definate buy. Can always use more interesting villains.

Enchanted Items
I'll give this a pass.

The Ultimate Speedster
50/50 I'll buy this.

Scourges Of The Galaxy
50/50 I'll buy this.

The Ultimate Mentalist
Probably not, as I have almost never used the 4E version.

Pulp Hero
50/50. I'm more interested in a pulp world then I am a genre overview.

The Asian Bestiary
I doubt I'll buy this.

Thrilling Hero Tales
There's a good chance I'll buy this, though I would have much more interested in a CU anthology.

Golden Age Champions
I doubt I'll buy this. I own both prior versions and have never used them.

Masterminds And Madmen
I doubt I'll buy this. This will depend more on how it looks over information within to be honest.

I guess that means 5 sure purchases and 5 50/50 might buys.

Lord Mhoram

Feb 18th, '04, 10:15 AM

Originally posted by SuperPheemy
I don't think my budget can handle Derek's 20 point "Must buy all things HERO" affliction.

I still think it is a 15. It's uncommon. If HERO ramps up to 3 books a month or more (like Steve said they wanted to be in a couple years) then I see at going to a 20.

Silverbullet

Feb 18th, '04, 11:11 AM

I hope I didn't double up what anyone else did, but I just sent Gamingreport.com a link to the site with a quick note on the 2005 release schedule...

Steve Long

Feb 18th, '04, 11:32 AM

Anthology info, puhleaze! Okay, so you mention one story. Where do the others come from? Are you taking submissions?

The others are from various authors, some associated with pulp writing, some with game writing. It's been assembled and spearheaded by Jim Lowder, God of Gaming-Related Fiction, and is going to kick ass, methinks.

Sorry, but we're not really taking any more submissions at this time; the book's pretty much ready to go in terms of content. A couple of us associated with the company may add stories specific to the Hero pulp settings, but that's all.

Steve Long

Feb 18th, '04, 11:44 AM

Hmm. Wasn't "Champions Worldwide" supposed to be the third C:TNM supplement that never quite got to be printed? I remember the ad in "Bay City".

Yup, the C:TNM setting was going to have a book of that title; I wrote about one-third of it. The difference is that the C:TNM book was more of a locations book, with lots of historical and place info about, say, Cairo and Hong Kong (the parts I wrote). Our CW is going to focus more on characters and other things unique to the CU setting; I don't want to spend much (if any) page space on information you can get, in a better format, from any number of cool travel guides (which make great gaming resources, BTW).

I have to be careful, Steve already docked me 2XP for asking if C.L.O.W.N. would make an appearance in Preadators. It's rough 'cause I was going to use those 2XP to buy Survival (Gaming Con) this week. Instead I was only able to affoard Familiarity KS (Overpriced Con Food).

Yes, but you earned 4 XP for transportation services rendered on Monday, so you're up 2 overall. :)

buzz

Feb 18th, '04, 02:41 PM

Okay, here's my point-by-point, itemized reactions to the schedule:

Thrilled by: All
Planning to buy: All

I think that's detailed enough. :D

Out of curiosity, will Teen Champions also touch on campaigns in the vein of, say, "Smallville", or are we talking mostly X-Men/New Mutants/Teen Titans? the former is definitely something I want to run, eventually.

Jhamin

Feb 18th, '04, 03:02 PM

Originally posted by buzz
Out of curiosity, will Teen Champions also touch on campaigns in the vein of, say, "Smallville", or are we talking mostly X-Men/New Mutants/Teen Titans? the former is definitely something I want to run, eventually.

That is actually a good point. For anyone born after a certain year (about 1980 or so) Buffy, Smallville and the like are alot more influential than the Teen Titans or New Mutants.

Although I imagine this will all have to wait for a "What do you want to see" thread that is probably a year or more away.

allen

Feb 18th, '04, 03:38 PM

Originally posted by buzz
Out of curiosity, will Teen Champions also touch on campaigns in the vein of, say, "Smallville", or are we talking mostly X-Men/New Mutants/Teen Titans? the former is definitely something I want to run, eventually.

Well, like Jhamin pointed out, it's a little ways off (though less than a year -- at least for when I start working on it -- probably seven months or so), but...

If what's being asked here is: Will the book cover running a Teen Champions game where the PCs are students at a public high school, and have Secret IDs so their teachers, classmates, etc. don't know they're superheroes, and some of the PCs' adversaries are peers or authority figures at the same high school. (Unlike New Mutants, where the PCs are at a "special" school for supers; and their adversaries, the Hellions, are from a rival school). Then the answer is: Heck yeah it will.

There's far too much fun to be had with that, I feel, to <i>not</i> cover it.

Steve Long

Feb 18th, '04, 04:20 PM

To echo Allen's comments -- remember, this is a subgenre book. Therefore, we want it to cover all the facets of the subgenre that we think it's appropriate to cover. That would certainly cover something like, say, SMALLVILLE. By way of illustration, look at the early years of the SPIDER-MAN comic book. It's pretty much the exact same thing as SMALLVILLE in terms of how it focuses on the teenager with superpowers, and the problems those powers cause as he tries to fight crime, do the right thing, or whatever. The biggest difference is that Spidey wears a costume and actively fights crime, whereas Clark Kent just deals with things that happen to come up and doesn't wear a costume (at least not as of late Season 1, which is as far as I've gotten so far ;)).

buzz

Feb 18th, '04, 04:34 PM

My overall response: Booyah. :cool:

Susano

Feb 18th, '04, 07:51 PM

Originally posted by BobGreenwade
The Asian Bestiary: Another book I want to grab. Michael, a fellow Haymaker APAzine member, always has stuff I find entertaining and interesting even when the genre isn't quite up my alley; his Ninja Hero has received some of this highest accolades I've seen for any Hero System book. This one should be a great sourcebook for Fantasy Hero, Champions, and Ninja Hero -- and, depending on how mystical it all is, I might be able to adapt a beast or five for my own purposes. On another note, I actually would have expected to see this earlier in the year, since (from what I gather) Mike's already done with the manuscript, I can only assume that some unknown logistical problem keeps this from happening.

Yeah, it's called "gremlins" -- wait, wrong culture -- change that to "kitsune."

:D

Eodin

Feb 18th, '04, 09:19 PM

So much goodness, such a limited budget...So what will I buy?

Teen Champions: Nope - not into Comic stuff these days

Dark Champions Battlegrounds: Maps? Need I say more...

The HERO System 5th Edition, Revised: 50/50, I'll have to give it a look and see if the expanded info is worth it.

The Ultimate Metamorph: Definitely. Many of my Champions characters from 20 years ago, and current FH critters are shapeshifters of some sort. Besides, I have a special place in my heart for the Star Trek Vendorians :)

Hidden Lands: 50/50. I like the pulp stuff. It's too bad the pulp books are on the 2005 schedule... I'd love to have them before I finish my "Of Steamworks and Magick Arcane" conversion...

The Underworld Sourcebook: 75/25, depending on how portable it is among the genres I use...

Everyman: 50/50. Depends on how really interesting and innovative these characters are.

Nobles, Knights, And Necromancers: 80/20. I still have to buy my copy of MMM...

Dark Champions: The Animated Series: Nope -- same comment as Teen Champions.

Champions Worldwide: Nope

Villains, Vandals, And Vermin: Nope

Enchanted Items: 80/20, depends on if the items are of the "wow, I never would have thought of doing it that way" variety.

The Ultimate Speedster: Nope.

Scourges Of The Galaxy: Definitely.

The Ultimate Mentalist: 20/80. Unless it's more innovative than the 4th edition version, probably not.

Pulp Hero: DEFINITELY!!!

The Asian Bestiary: 80/20. Oh to be running my old campaign again...

Thrilling Hero Tales: 50/50.

Golden Age Champions: Nope.

Masterminds And Madmen: Definitely!

Dr. MID-Nite

Feb 18th, '04, 09:24 PM

I'm pretty much a superhero genre purist, so the "other" genre items aren't of big interest to me, but the stuff I saw looks great. Some questions though:

1) Will Hidden lands cover Monster Island....and if so....will there be any giant monster writeups included in the book?(The Godzilla fan in me has to know.)

2) Wouldn't it make more sense for The Tiger Squad to be written up in Champions Worldwide rather than the new villan book?

3)Will Ultimate Mentalist include a "tactics" chapter? My players avoid mental powers because it seems like they can never do anything effective with them.

4)Hero revised.....any idea on the price point for this yet? Or at least a ball park figure?

Rob

Nevenall

Feb 18th, '04, 09:31 PM

I expect to buy everything except the fiction and Teen Champions.

Steve Long

Feb 19th, '04, 04:27 AM

1) Will Hidden lands cover Monster Island....and if so....will there be any giant monster writeups included in the book?(The Godzilla fan in me has to know.)

No. There's enough other stuff to go in the book; we'll save this for something else.

2.) Wouldn't it make more sense for The Tiger Squad to be written up in Champions Worldwide rather than the new villan book?

No, it wouldn't. Even without describing all the members, the Tiger Squad is too large and would overwhelm CW -- but it's perfect for VVV, so that's where it's going.

3)Will Ultimate Mentalist include a "tactics" chapter? My players avoid mental powers because it seems like they can never do anything effective with them.

To the same extent the old TUM does, sure. I suspect this has to do with your players more than anything; I know a lot of gamers who have the opposite complaint.

4)Hero revised.....any idea on the price point for this yet? Or at least a ball park figure?

No.

Dr. MID-Nite

Feb 21st, '04, 09:48 AM

Balok

Feb 21st, '04, 10:26 AM

It depends on the definition of "villain".

As agents of the Chinese government, the Tiger Squad would work in its interest. That could put it in opposition to your players on some occasions, and could put it in sympathy with them on others.

The more general definition "folks who the players might oppose" would apply, one supposes.

Steve Long

Feb 21st, '04, 10:38 AM

Thanks for the info. For the record, you're not going to have a write-up of EVERY Tiger Squad member, are you? That would take up the whole book. LOL The only reason I thought they might be more appropriate to Champions Worldwide is the fact that I don't really see them as villains, but I imagine either book would serve the purpose of listing them. Personally, I'd like to see some Russian heroes written up. Red Doom(Guard) was one of my favorite gruops and I miss them in 5th Edition.

No, I won't have all of 'em. No more than 8, probably, with a list of at least a generous selection of other members. As you say, 40+ characters would make a whole book! ;)

I don't necessarily see the Tiger Squad as villains either... at least not all the time. I see them more as the Supreme Soviets from Marvel -- sometimes opposed to the PCs for political reasons, sometimes working with them. For the most part, they're heroes and do heroic things. But because they oppose the PC heroes, they function as "villains" on most occasions, and thus are appropriate for VVV. There are "misguided hero" types in CKC, for example, so no reason not to carry the tradition over. :)

Tclynch

Feb 22nd, '04, 04:30 AM

ok, I'll throw in my .02 on the books for 2005....

Team Champions...eh, title of the book doesn't thrill me, but my chances of buying it...60%

Dark Champions Battlegrounds...50%

5th Edition Revised...100%

Ultimate Metamorph.....100%

Hidden Lands....100%

Underworld sourcebook- Pheh, this stuff leaves me cold. 0% It's parakeet fodder :-)

Everyman...another Pheh. Why? I'll save another tree by giving it a pass- 0%

Nobels, Knights and Necros...ok, I'll give it a once over- maybe- 40%

Dank Champions: Animated - the FIRST Dark Champions book I am accually very tempted to buy. Never liked the first D Champions, but this I may get into...75%

Champions Worldwide- 100% Give me more.

Villians Vandels and vermin....100% Give me more

Enchanted Items- 80% Most likely, unles it's like all enchanted shoes and place settings :-)

Ultimate Speedster- Oh, yeah...I'm all over this-100%

Scourges of the Galaxy; If it's all Star Hero-Bleh- time to save another tree- 0% If I can use it with Champions and it's VERY useful- 50%

Ultimate Mentalist- Oh, yeah--100%

PULP HERO! Finally- 100% Wait a minute...if it's like the other "Genre" books (Star Hero, Champions) 0%, Yep, I know the genre, don't need a book telling me about it.

Asian Bestiary- 100%

Thrilling Hero Tales- 75%

Golden Age Champions- Hummmm, maybe- 50%

Masterminds and madmen- FINALLY, possible the first REAL book for PULP HERO! 100% Now, where is the setting book???

Steve Long

Feb 22nd, '04, 06:11 AM

Now, where is the setting book???

To the extent "the setting" is "the amazing world of the 1920s and '30s," in the genre book, which as a "historical" has to review what the world is like at that time.

To the extent "the setting" is fictional stuff, such as Hudson City 1935, possibly it's in the 2006 schedule.

Sketchpad

Feb 22nd, '04, 06:21 AM

Okay ... I'll join in ...
Teen Champions - Being a Titans & New Warriors fan, I'm loving this idea. 100% on Buying this.
Dark Champions Battlegrounds - Not so interested in adventures. If the shop I buy stuff at gets it, I'll take a look. 48% chance of buying.
FrED Jr - I have FrED ... don't need to upgrade yet :) 0%
Ultimate Metamorph - I like the Ultimate books ... so it'll depend on funds. I would say at least 80%.
Hidden Lands - Love this kinda stuff ... at least 80%.
Underworld Sourcebook - Hopefully it'll have some info akin to Marvel's Maggia or Hammer family. I'd say 60% chance of snagging it.
Everyman - Everyone can use basic stats. I'd give a look through ... 60%.
Nobles, Knights and Necromancers - I dunno if I'll get much use outta this one ... most of my fantasy stuff is setting specific. 45%.
Dark Champions: The Animated Series - I'm REALLY interested on how this'll look. 99%.
Champions Worldwide - I'd give this a good look. 90%.
Villains, Vandals & Vermin - Love enemy books. 100%.
Enchanted Items - Very promising looking. 90%.
Ultimate Speedster - Ultimate book + my favorite super type = 100%
Scourges of the Galaxy - See comments on NKN. 45%
Ultimate Mentalist - I liked the original and can't wait to see what Steve cooks up in this one. 90%.
Pulp Hero - Woot! 100%
Asian Bestiary - Love the idea. 90%
Thrilling Hero Tales - Love pulp fiction. 80%
Golden Age Champions - WOO! 100%
Masterminds & Madmen - Looks neat. 80%.

Damn ... I need to get another job to support my Hero habit ;)

tgaptte

Feb 22nd, '04, 02:15 PM

Okay...now me...this is an easy one.

Teen Champions: 100/0
Dark Champions Battlegrounds: 100/0
The HERO System 5th Edition, Revised: 100/0
The Ultimate Metamorph: 100/0
Hidden Lands: 100/0
The Underworld Sourcebook: 100/0
Everyman: 100/0
Nobles, Knights, And Necromancers: 100/0
Dark Champions: 100/0
Champions Worldwide: 100/0
Villains, Vandals, And Vermin: 100/0
Enchanted Items: 100/0
The Ultimate Speedster: 100/0
Scourges Of The Galaxy: 100/0
The Ultimate Mentalist: 100/0
Pulp Hero: 100/0
The Asian Bestiary: 100/0
Thrilling Hero Tales: 100/0
Golden Age Champions: 100/0
Masterminds And Madmen: 100/0
Anything else HERO puts out: 100/0

Tim

Blue

Feb 22nd, '04, 02:29 PM

Chance of me buying every dang one of 'em?.... 100%.

Even the stuff I won't use. I suppose I feel an obligation to keep the company going :)

Plucky

Feb 22nd, '04, 07:52 PM

Say, can we do something like a subscription for books?
Every years, people can sign up and purchase a subscription for all the books published that year. We would get discount for the books but need to commit to buying all the books that year some how. (Like certain amount of money down or something.)

Anyway, the idea isn't solidified yet and it certainly wouldn't be for everyone, even those intending to buy all the books, because it requires some upfront commitment. However, it might be good for the company too as it would be able to get some cash upfront for whatever it needs (the whole cash is king thing). Of coures, maybe nobody would actually do this so it wouldn't matter.

Just a thought.

Plucky

Koshka

Feb 22nd, '04, 07:59 PM

Originally posted by Sketchpad
Damn ... I need to get another job to support my Hero habit ;)

I know the feeling, Sketchpad. Anyone care to chime in with how they've gotten "Cost of Hero" raises from their companies? ;)

While I would love to be able to buy one of everything, short of finding a winning lottery ticket in the parking lot it's not gonna happen.

Pulp Hero, Thrilling Hero Tales, Masterminds and Madmen and Golden Age Champions are definite buys. (And how did you snag the Lester Dent story?)

Teen Champions and Dark Champions: The Animated Series both look good, but may need to be placed on my birthday wish-list depending on budget. Fortunately I have several friends who are willing to gift-shop at game stores :) .

I'll probably hold off on the fantasy books -- just about everyone I know who plays fantasy is committed to d20.

Fred Jr ... I'll probably save a 20% off punch card for him, it'll be easier than searching the Rules Questions forum ;) .

The other books, I'll have to take a look at. If I can swing the extra cash, I'll be getting more of them, if not .... :(

Derek Hiemforth

Feb 22nd, '04, 08:25 PM

Originally posted by Plucky:
Say, can we do something like a subscription for books?
While a subscription plan sounds attractive, I think it would raise a whole bunch of logistical hurdles... Obviously, this could only be done via online sales in order for Hero to track it effectively. Since books only go into the online store after they've been released to retail channels for a month, would that mean the subscribers would have to wait a month to get their books? If so, that would be a downside that might prevent some people from subscribing. If not, that might step on retailers' toes.
Also, Hero Games might not see this as being in the best interests of the line as a whole. They've said in the past that it's good for the health of the line (and the industry as a whole) when customers buy from retailers. Only the most fanatic Hero devotees would buy a year-long subscription, and they're also the fans most likely to make sure that retailers order the books and have reason to carry them. It may not be strategically wise to give those hardest-of-hardcore fans a reason to bypass the retail channel.
In order to make this feasible, a "down-payment" system probably wouldn't work. I doubt Hero Games has the resources or inclination to chase people down and ensure they pay. It would probably only be feasible if the whole subscription was pre-paid (as it is with Digital Hero, for example). That higher up-front cost might be a barrier to some who would otherwise subscribe.
What would they do if (God forbid) issues beyond their control caused them to not be able to publish the whole announced schedule when and as announced? Would they then have to issue partial refunds? This seems to raise some very sticky potential cash-management problems.
Even if Hero Games offered subscription books at a discount, the consumer would also have to pay for shipping. So the net cost may not be much different than simply buying them all individually as they come out.
Generally speaking, there would just be much greater administrative issues to consider than, say, for a comic book shop that does a "saver" for its customers. :)
Of course, none of these hurdles are insurmountable. Hero Games could probably find a way to do this if they want to... I'm just not sure it's the best way to go. And I say this as someone who certainly would buy the subscription if they offered it, so it's not like I'm running down the idea on those grounds. :)

John Desmarais

Feb 22nd, '04, 08:29 PM

Originally posted by Koshka
I know the feeling, Sketchpad. Anyone care to chime in with how they've gotten "Cost of Hero" raises from their companies? ;)

While I would love to be able to buy one of everything, short of finding a winning lottery ticket in the parking lot it's not gonna happen.

Now I'm feeling kinda guilty. I have been buying every Hero product that comes out (actually, since the 3rd edition days) except for "Alien Wars" which my friendly local game store sold out of before I got one (and they've been a bit slow getting it re-ordered).

John D
Just doing my bit to insure Hero stays solvent :p

lemming

Feb 22nd, '04, 08:39 PM

Originally posted by John Desmarais
Now I'm feeling kinda guilty. I have been buying every Hero product that comes out (actually, since the 3rd edition days) except for "Alien Wars" which my friendly local game store sold out of before I got one (and they've been a bit slow getting it re-ordered).

John D
Just doing my bit to insure Hero stays solvent :p
I volunteer to assuage your guilt, by having you buy copies for me. :D

Susano

Feb 22nd, '04, 08:52 PM

Originally posted by lemming
I volunteer to assuage your guilt, by having you buy copies for me. :D

You can buy some for me!

:p

Lord Mhoram

Feb 22nd, '04, 09:17 PM

Originally posted by Koshka
While I would love to be able to buy one of everything, short of finding a winning lottery ticket in the parking lot it's not gonna happen.

Is this where I raise the ire and envy of the rest of the board and comment that I work at a FLGS one day a week, as much as anything to be able to get all my stuff at cost? That is about the only way I can keep up with getting all the HERO books that come out.

Steve Long

Feb 23rd, '04, 04:08 AM

We don't have any plans for any sort of "subscription" service. Derek's covered most of the reasons why this isn't something we can consider; there are additional accounting issues that we don't want to run afoul of. But we appreciate the enthusiasm behind the suggestion. ;)

Tclynch

Feb 23rd, '04, 04:29 AM

Getting a bit off topic here but, give yourself a break. DON"T buy at your local store, unless they are willing to give you a price break (especially if they know you're buying every Hero book). I NEVER pay full price for an RPG. Many online stores give 20-30% off retail. I am fortunate in that I have a freind with a mail order business, so I also buy at cost. If you're paying full price in the day of the internet, you're paying too much :-)

Koshka

Feb 23rd, '04, 06:11 AM

Originally posted by Lord Mhoram
Is this where I raise the ire and envy of the rest of the board and comment that I work at a FLGS one day a week, as much as anything to be able to get all my stuff at cost?

Better you than me, m'lord. I do not have the tolerance level required for all the inane pickup lines that would be coming my way if I worked at a game store.

(Not that I consider myself all that attractive, but as a female in a male-dominated hobby ....)

Hugh Neilson

Feb 23rd, '04, 06:31 AM

Originally posted by Steve Long
We don't have any plans for any sort of "subscription" service. Derek's covered most of the reasons why this isn't something we can consider; there are additional accounting issues that we don't want to run afoul of. But we appreciate the enthusiasm behind the suggestion. ;)

Well, if you REALLY wanted to, it could be done. I can see why you don't, of course. Most of Derek's concerns could be addressed if you sold a "coupon book" with some $$ amount off each product. Say the coupons add up to $200 and you sell it for $125 - there's $75 off the whole year's production.

Buy where you like - Hero will honor the coupons by giving discounts on future purchases (ie flow it back up the distributor chain). Now this would be an administrative nightmare, but it could be done.

What about a reverse approach - include a Proof of Purchase in every product. If someone collects the whole year's Proof of Purchases, they can redeem it through Hero for cash or a discount on future products. Still some serious administration, of course.

The problem is that, for the extra benefit, the costs would likely not be worth it. There's what, 18 products out in 2005? Say an average of $25 each is $450. 10% off is $45 - or enough that the last book is free and the second lkasdt only costs a pittance. Would Hero really be ahead?

Sketchpad

Feb 23rd, '04, 06:56 AM

On the plus side ... at least Hero Books are affordable. I would rather dish out $30 for Fantasy Hero than one of the D&D corebooks these days. Mind you, I like d20 also ... but their prices are ridiculous!

Monolith

Feb 23rd, '04, 07:16 AM

Originally posted by Sketchpad
On the plus side ... at least Hero Books are affordable. I would rather dish out $30 for Fantasy Hero than one of the D&D corebooks these days. Mind you, I like d20 also ... but their prices are ridiculous!
I think all game books are just increasing in price, including Hero books. Of course I can't understand Hero's pricing system. A 250 page Vehicle book costs $30 and a 130 page monster book costs $27.00. :)

I'm hoping since there will be so few CU books in the 2005 schedule that they will at least be large books. I'd much rather buy 200-250 page books then 120-160 page books.

SuperPheemy

Feb 23rd, '04, 09:07 AM

Lord Mhoram

Feb 23rd, '04, 09:37 AM

Originally posted by Steve Long
We don't have any plans for any sort of "subscription" service. Derek's covered most of the reasons why this isn't something we can consider;

One thing you might be able to do, its something we do at the FLG/CS I work at (although there are only two people that take advantage of it). If the shop is a comic shop that does holds/pull lists, and those that do usually have some sort of discount, you add the HERO books to your pull list. We have one guy who gets every HERO book and one who gets every Champions book. I order them like clockwork (along with my own). Our store give a a 5% on holds, or 15% if you clear it out that week, so the guys who have HERO holds get a 15% off cover, and know they will get them in. When getting the owners to agree to this, I expalined it thusly-
"HERO is doing 18 books a year, assuming $20 dollars a book (and that could be seen as low) that is $30 a month. It is the equivalent of 10 comics a month, so if they are going to get them all anyway, doing them as a pull pretty much assures that they come to our shop"

Who knows you might get lucky.

Derek Hiemforth

Feb 23rd, '04, 01:12 PM

I actually have a set-up like this (a "pull-list" setup like Lord Mhoram suggested) with a local game store. They order at least one of every Hero product that comes out (mine plus however many they want to order for the store), and call me when they get the books in. If I know there will be certain books I'll be getting direct from Hero (such as my author's copies of Champions Battlegrounds, or ones I know I'll be buying at a con, such as Sidekick and the HSVS) then I let them know in advance that I won't need copies of those books.

It works well, but I would sound one note of caution for the truly impatient among us... There's been a few times when they've been slower to get a book (for whatever reason) than some other store, and then I was stuck waiting for them because I'd already committed to getting it there.

So if you like gettin' your grubby little paws on new books ASAP, and you have more than one store from which to get them, then you might not want to "lock" yourself into a saver arrangement... you'll get the books a bit sooner from time to time if you're willing to go through the hassle of pestering multiple stores (Is it in yet? Is it in yet?). :)

Killer Shrike

Feb 23rd, '04, 01:23 PM

Originally posted by Tclynch
Getting a bit off topic here but, give yourself a break. DON"T buy at your local store, unless they are willing to give you a price break (especially if they know you're buying every Hero book). I NEVER pay full price for an RPG. Many online stores give 20-30% off retail. I am fortunate in that I have a freind with a mail order business, so I also buy at cost. If you're paying full price in the day of the internet, you're paying too much :-) On the other hand if you dont support your local game store, it will eventually go out of business. Lack of game stores hurts the industry which hurts the hobby. Personally I dont think saving a few bucks here and there is worth cutting the throat of my own hobby.

Derek Hiemforth

Feb 23rd, '04, 01:33 PM

Originally posted by Killer Shrike
Personally I dont think saving a few bucks here and there is worth cutting the throat of my own hobby. Darn it, Shrike, there you go being logical again! ;)

Balok

Feb 23rd, '04, 01:56 PM

Originally posted by Killer Shrike
On the other hand if you dont support your local game store, it will eventually go out of business. Lack of game stores hurts the industry which hurts the hobby. Personally I dont think saving a few bucks here and there is worth cutting the throat of my own hobby.

I don't agree. Online sources sell to *anyone*, including to folks who have no FLGS (like me). That means the product can reach people who might otherwise never get it -- because by the time they get to the FDGS (Friendly Distant Game Store), it's been sold out or trashed. That's *more customers*, which is what the industry wants. If the product doesn't move, because the guy who wants it is too far away, maybe that store doesn't bother to order the next one.

In addition, I assume online discounters have priced their product at a level that permits them to make a profit -- but if they haven't, that's not my problem. From the perspective of a manufacturer, he sells product whether it's to an online store or a brick and mortar store. Neither one permits returns. I know this because Steve has said they avoid the book trade because it demands that right. Yet several online vendors do sell the HERO line, from which one concludes that they do not demand that right.

Your argument suggests that the existence of Amazon will drive bookstores out of business, or is bad for the publishing industry. I haven't seem evidence of the former, and I've heard no one advance an argument for the latter.

(Edited for clarity)

BlackSword

Feb 23rd, '04, 02:03 PM

Originally posted by Killer Shrike
On the other hand if you dont support your local game store, it will eventually go out of business. Lack of game stores hurts the industry which hurts the hobby. Personally I dont think saving a few bucks here and there is worth cutting the throat of my own hobby.
I would use on-line ordering. Once they set up 1000 sqft of gaming space in my town I will be more then happy to give them my business. On the other hand, as long as my brick and mortar store stays corteous and helpful I will continue to give them a part of my earnings.

A good example: I walked in and was browsing a large wall of minis. The manager walked over and asked if I needed any help, I described what I was looking for and pretty quickly we were able to find a mini that fit my needs. They were out of stock so he ordered one for me. Would have been more difficult on-line.

In addition the b&m stores gives people a place to browse. The store near me is actually comics and games (and includes board games and chess boards). People come and might see a game of interest and become interested in the hobby. I don't know how many new hobbyist brick and mortar stores add, but I would guess its more then on-line stores.

I don't mind paying a few dollars more if it helps a local business and a business which helps promote my hobby.

Killer Shrike

Feb 23rd, '04, 02:23 PM

Originally posted by Derek Hiemforth
Darn it, Shrike, there you go being logical again! ;) Its both a curse and a blessing. How is it a blessing? Let me count the ways......it is a blessing in exactly 10010010 different ways. ;)

Killer Shrike

Feb 23rd, '04, 02:27 PM

Originally posted by BlackSword
I would use on-line ordering. Once they set up 1000 sqft of gaming space in my town I will be more then happy to give them my business. On the other hand, as long as my brick and mortar store stays corteous and helpful I will continue to give them a part of my earnings.

A good example: I walked in and was browsing a large wall of minis. The manager walked over and asked if I needed any help, I described what I was looking for and pretty quickly we were able to find a mini that fit my needs. They were out of stock so he ordered one for me. Would have been more difficult on-line.

In addition the b&m stores gives people a place to browse. The store near me is actually comics and games (and includes board games and chess boards). People come and might see a game of interest and become interested in the hobby. I don't know how many new hobbyist brick and mortar stores add, but I would guess its more then on-line stores.

I don't mind paying a few dollars more if it helps a local business and a business which helps promote my hobby. This is how I feel in general as well. I have ordered books on line, but only when it would have been difficult to get it via a "B&M" gaming store.

keithcurtis

Feb 23rd, '04, 02:34 PM

Originally posted by Balok
I don't agree. Online sources sell to *anyone*, including to folks who have no FLGS (like me).

On the other hand, Online sources rarely sell to people without:
A) Computers
B) Internet Access
C) Credit Cards

It's hard to see it, since by virtue of being on the boards, we all fulfill at least two of these requirements, but there are a lot of gamers out there who don't have these things, particularly the younger ones.

Keith "Just sayin' " Curtis

Derek Hiemforth

Feb 23rd, '04, 02:36 PM

Also, I doubt anyone has ever been introduced to gaming by running across it at an online store. :)

Killer Shrike

Feb 23rd, '04, 02:37 PM

Originally posted by Balok
I don't agree. Online sources sell to *anyone*, including to folks who have no FLGS (like me). That means the product can reach people who might otherwise never get it -- because by the time they get to the FDGS (Friendly Distant Game Store), it's been sold out or trashed. That's *more customers*, which is what the industry wants. If the product doesn't move, because the guy who wants it is too far away, maybe that store doesn't bother to order the next one. Er...theres no such thing as more customers in the gaming business in any real numbers. Aside from a casual browser who might pick something up in a B&M, there is a pretty set and small demographic of people that are going to buy the book regardless.

Also, you'll note that people like you that dont have a game store arent even covered by my statement -- note I said "LOCAL" game store. If you dont have a LOCAL gamestore then that would seem to exclude you from the statment.

Originally posted by Balok
In addition, I assume online discounters have priced their product at a level that permits them to make a profit -- but if they haven't, that's not my problem. From the perspective of a manufacturer, he sells product whether it's to an online store or a brick and mortar store. Neither one permits returns. I know this because Steve has said they avoid the book trade because it demands that right. Yet several online vendors do sell the HERO line, from which one concludes that they do not demand that right.
If there are fewer stores, do you think that translates into a 1 to 1 of more online sellers? No. When a B&M goes out of business that is one fewer distribution point available for game products. Its one less place for players to meet and mingle. Its one less place to browse thru a new game, become interested, and walk out with it. None of these things are good for the hobby regardless of who's getting paid.

Originally posted by Balok
Your argument suggests that the existence of Amazon will drive bookstores out of business, or is bad for the publishing industry. I haven't seem evidence of the former, and I've heard no one advance an argument for the latter.
I implied nothing of the sort. I said hobby stores going out of business is bad for the hobby. If you want to translate that into some complicated treatise on the state of the book trade post-amazon, then be my guest -- but I didnt voice any such opinion on the matter.

Tclynch

Feb 23rd, '04, 06:34 PM

Originally posted by Killer Shrike
On the other hand if you dont support your local game store, it will eventually go out of business. Lack of game stores hurts the industry which hurts the hobby. Personally I dont think saving a few bucks here and there is worth cutting the throat of my own hobby.

Hummm, perhaps they should go out of business, if they can't compete. For me to give them full price on a book I can buy elsewhere (it IS the same book), I'd better be getting some kind of increased value from the store.
Same with DVDs. Why buy a DVD at full price (Suncoast), unless you're just uneducated buyer and don't know better, when I can get a discount at BestBuy or online at DeepDiscountDVD for 40% off. DUH, it's a no brainer. Hey, I save WAY more than a "few dollars" if you buy every Hero book, or just say 1 game book a month at an average price of $25, then over the course of a year, just buying from people like FRPGames, I can save $60, that's significant.
It's time for the FLGS to get it together or close.
It may also be time to take this conversation to another area :-)

Killer Shrike

Feb 23rd, '04, 09:20 PM

Originally posted by Tclynch
Hummm, perhaps they should go out of business, if they can't compete. For me to give them full price on a book I can buy elsewhere (it IS the same book), I'd better be getting some kind of increased value from the store.
Same with DVDs. Why buy a DVD at full price (Suncoast), unless you're just uneducated buyer and don't know better, when I can get a discount at BestBuy or online at DeepDiscountDVD for 40% off. DUH, it's a no brainer. Hey, I save WAY more than a "few dollars" if you buy every Hero book, or just say 1 game book a month at an average price of $25, then over the course of a year, just buying from people like FRPGames, I can save $60, that's significant.
It's time for the FLGS to get it together or close.
It may also be time to take this conversation to another area :-)

A) We arent talking about video purchases or anything else, we are talking about Role Playing Games. RPGs are an incredibly tiny industry catering to a very niche hobby. Comparing them to a massive mainstream industry misses the point completely.

B) Brick and Mortars are small-time businesses with overhead costs. They have to maintain a storefront, and this difference in costs is the discount you see from online stores. The benefit of this "premium" if you will is that there is a real store with real books on the shelves frequented by real people that really share the same hobby as you do and occasionally someone new to the gamer community. The fact that so many of them appear to be allergic to soap is, I'll grant you, unfortunate. But nevertheless, not having this sort of place is not good for the hobby. Granted, this might not seem like a "benefit" to an antisocial or self-centered gamer who sees only what is good for themselves, or people that are on a tight budget and play with the same group constantly and are not interested in being part of a larger community of players.

C) Saving 60 bucks a year: I spend 60 bucks on sodas, lunch, and dinner most days, so I guess its all relative. 60 bucks is pocket money IMO, and certainly not worth damaging my preferred hobby over.

Your opinion obviously differs, but consider what would happen to the gaming community if B&Ms just dried up and blew away. You might find yourself with a lot more time on your hands to watch videos with when half the gamers in the area take a dump because they cant find games to play in or players for there own game.

Personally, I dont hang out in the game store or play games there. Ive found players via game stores before, but Ive had about equal luck on message boards. I do like to browse product and have bought several things I never would have gotten if I hadnt seen it in person first, but other than that I dont even particularly give a damn about any particular game store. However, they represent an outlet for my hobby, they generate sales, the help groups form by having a place to meet and even play, which drives more revenue, and so on. These are all positive things for me. They represent a healthier publishing industry for the game companys, a larger pool of players, a greater opportunity to entice new players, and in the long run a bigger community of gamers. Thats the premium Im paying for when I spend my dollars at a B&M and Im happy to do it.

Its no skin off my nose if youd rather buy online, but at least be aware of the fact that there is more involved than just saving a few dollars on a book.

Enforcer84

Feb 23rd, '04, 10:01 PM

All I know is I am going to need a bigger bookshelf...

Tclynch

Feb 24th, '04, 05:31 AM

Dag! I was in a hurry to get to work, sorry for the odd posting.....

Originally posted by Killer Shrike
A) We arent talking about video purchases or anything else, we are talking about Role Playing Games. RPGs are an incredibly tiny industry catering to a very niche hobby. Comparing them to a massive mainstream industry misses the point completely.

@@@ Totally disagree with you here. Comparing the RPG hobby to say, people who collect anime or Star Trek on DVD is a "Niche" compairson. Let's take the wargame hobby as an example then. I know lots of wargamers in my area. NO shops in the area carry them. Yet, MORE wargamers, new to the hobby have showed up recently, how? WE promote our hobby. WE buy online at a reduced price and say money as well. I look at the online stores as my FLGS. I have found gamers online and get my books/ wargames cheap. The FLGS had better learn how to compete or they eventually will go away...@@@@

B) Brick and Mortars are small-time businesses with overhead costs. They have to maintain a storefront, and this difference in costs is the discount you see from online stores. The benefit of this "premium" if you will is that there is a real store with real books on the shelves frequented by real people that really share the same hobby as you do and occasionally someone new to the gamer community. The fact that so many of them appear to be allergic to soap is, I'll grant you, unfortunate. But nevertheless, not having this sort of place is not good for the hobby. Granted, this might not seem like a "benefit" to an antisocial or self-centered gamer who sees only what is good for themselves, or people that are on a tight budget and play with the same group constantly and are not interested in being part of a larger community of players.

@@@@@ I am VERY interested in expanding the comunity of players AND I do things to promote the hobby (see above) by talking to friends, getting them to try it, I've run games at the local coffee shop, etc. I just know how to spend money. WHY pay full price when I can get it cheaper? ON ANYTHING? Tires, soap, clothing, food....DUH!@@@@@

C) Saving 60 bucks a year: I spend 60 bucks on sodas, lunch, and dinner most days, so I guess its all relative. 60 bucks is pocket money IMO, and certainly not worth damaging my preferred hobby over.
@@@@@ I'll be happy to take any funds from you you consider chump change. Please email me for my address :-)@@@@@@@

Your opinion obviously differs, but consider what would happen to the gaming community if B&Ms just dried up and blew away. You might find yourself with a lot more time on your hands to watch videos with when half the gamers in the area take a dump because they cant find games to play in or players for there own game.
@@@@@@@The GAMERS in the area would continue to game and buy from mail order/ online stores. Already there are ares of the counrty with out a FLGS and people still game. Sorry, you are WRONG@@@@@

Personally, I dont hang out in the game store or play games there. Ive found players via game stores before, but Ive had about equal luck on message boards. I do like to browse product and have bought several things I never would have gotten if I hadnt seen it in person first, but other than that I dont even particularly give a damn about any particular game store. However, they represent an outlet for my hobby, they generate sales, the help groups form by having a place to meet and even play, which drives more revenue, and so on. These are all positive things for me. They represent a healthier publishing industry for the game companys, a larger pool of players, a greater opportunity to entice new players, and in the long run a bigger community of gamers. Thats the premium Im paying for when I spend my dollars at a B&M and Im happy to do it.

Its no skin off my nose if youd rather buy online, but at least be aware of the fact that there is more involved than just saving a few dollars on a book.

@@@@@I used what might be a low end gamer example for the saving to buying online. Last year, I think I bought....22 books. say average price of those were...$25 (low end), that means I saved $110 buy online with no sales tax. Now, for the wealthy, that's not much but look at it this way-
I could buy 4 more books for $25, thus supporting Steve and the crew as they get the same amount from the distributor regardless how much it is sold for. Thus helping Steve & the gaming industry EVEN MORE!
I could feed myself for a good while on that
I could give it to charity, if I so choose (and I do, I have a couple I give to)
I could go to the moviews with my girlfriend about- 5 times

ALOT more involved than saving a few bucks, indeed. And now, I think it's time to take this thread elsewhere ;-)

Derek Hiemforth

Feb 24th, '04, 05:36 AM

Originally posted by Tclynch
Last year, I think I bought....22 books. say average price of those were...$25 (low end), that means I saved $110 buy online with no sales tax.And with an average shipping cost of $4.50 a book or so, your net savings was probably closer to $20. :)

buzz

Feb 24th, '04, 06:00 AM

Originally posted by Killer Shrike
Your opinion obviously differs, but consider what would happen to the gaming community if B&Ms just dried up and blew away. You might find yourself with a lot more time on your hands to watch videos with when half the gamers in the area take a dump because they cant find games to play in or players for there own game.
FTR, I have never met another player by means of a FLGS. The three groups I am in now are all people I met via Web "players wanted" boards (including HERO's). Previous groups were always friends first. IMHO, the disappearance of B&M game stores (which is a stretch) would have no noticeable effect. The 'Net is amuch more pervasive and effective way to get gamers together.

I do my part to help support the community. I donate prizes to the ENWorld Chicago gameday, and I'm going to start help running them soon. I also support my favorite companies by spending a *lot* of money on their products.

However, I don't see any obligation for me to "support" a particular retailer simply for the "good of the community." The simple fact is that we live in a world of online retailers, and B&M stores need to find ways to compete in the marketplace just like they always did.

At ENWorld Game Days, I make sure to buy lots of products from the store that hosts it, Games Plus, because they are obviously providing a "value-added" service. Otherwise, the nearest FLGS to me are the Gamers Paradise where the employees are rude and don't really know anything about the products, and a Border's that seems to feature product that has been picked over and dog-eared by 12-year-olds looking for Yu-Gi-Oh price guides... for full price.

As a consumer, it's my responsibility to spend my money wisely. Ergo, my dollars go to Amazon, FRPgames.com, and my buddy's comic n' games mail-order business (fresh games, brought right to the gaming table!).

The hobby is not a charity. It's a business. Forcing me to buy solely at B&M stores means I have to pay more, which means I'm going to buy less.

Hugh Neilson

Feb 24th, '04, 06:16 AM

Originally posted by Derek Hiemforth
And with an average shipping cost of $4.50 a book or so, your net savings was probably closer to $20. :)

This is a good point. Even more so when you consider that the B&M game shop paid the shipping to get the product on the shelf.

Some others have made the comment abut the hobby itself. How many people will be surfing the web, see an RPG and think "hey, that looks interesting - let's buy one and see what this is all about"? Not many. Most are introduced to the hobby through friends who already play, or through the local gaming store, commonly because they alresady buy something else (commonly comics) at said store.

Less players = less sales. Less sales = less incentive for publishers to publish. Many of the posters note they've been gaming for a while. For me, I started in the early '80s, in high school. For those of you in the same boat, how many of your high school gaming buddies still game regularly? The half life of a gamer isn't that long - new blood is essential if the hobby is to survive. Physical stores are a primary means by which we attract that new blood.

If this weren't the case, why would the big players be supporting the game stores - and even distributing to mass market book stores, in some cases. The ability to reach a wider audience has a huge value. IUnability to atract new customers = death for the game, the company and the hobby.

Tclynch

Feb 24th, '04, 06:39 AM

Unless you don't have to pay for shipping. I think I paid for shipping in ....half the orders I placed. I tend to place orders large enough where I don't pay shipping :-)

Tclynch

Feb 24th, '04, 06:52 AM

Originally posted by Hugh Neilson
This is a good point. Even more so when you consider that the B&M game shop paid the shipping to get the product on the shelf.

Some others have made the comment abut the hobby itself. How many people will be surfing the web, see an RPG and think "hey, that looks interesting - let's buy one and see what this is all about"?
@@@@@Pehaps with the people you know, but I've done just that. I also research a game before buying. ALL online. RPGnet, Gamenews, Allience all give you plenty of info to make a decision on weither or not to buy.@@@@@@
Not many. Most are introduced to the hobby through friends who already play, or through the local gaming store, commonly because they alresady buy something else (commonly comics) at said store.
@@@@@@I have NEVER met a gamer or joined a game thru a gamestore. It's all been thur friends or online@@@@@@
Less players = less sales.
@@@@@@@Save more money on each game and be able to BUY more games. Sounds like a WIN WIn for gamers and publishers to me@@@@@@ Less sales = less incentive for publishers to publish.
@@@@@@@@Many of the posters note they've been gaming for a while. For me, I started in the early '80s, in high school. For those of you in the same boat, how many of your high school gaming buddies still game regularly?@@@@@@@@@Ummmmm, I'd say 90% still do to some level. They may do other things as well (ie, they have a life), but they still game every once in a while at least@@@@@@@@@ The half life of a gamer isn't that long - new blood is essential if the hobby is to survive. Physical stores are a primary means by which we attract that new blood.
@@@@@@NOT when the average game book is now $40 (core book), getting out and PROMOTING the hobby is will what save it, not game stores that are poorly lit, smell and disorganized@@@@@@@@@@
If this weren't the case, why would the big players be supporting the game stores - and even distributing to mass market book stores, in some cases. The ability to reach a wider audience has a huge value. IUnability to atract new customers = death for the game, the company and the hobby.
Face it, the game store is soon to pass. Book store are well lit and are more likely to attract a curious gamer than a game store. Online are for the smart spender. The hobby Will live without the game store.

buzz

Feb 24th, '04, 07:41 AM

Originally posted by Hugh Neilson
How many people will be surfing the web, see an RPG and think "hey, that looks interesting - let's buy one and see what this is all about"? Not many.
I wholeheartedly disgaree with this. This is one of the *primary appeals* of online shopping for me. I can see something I'm interested in and then get much more immediate results (a game purchased) than if I had to go through a FLGS... assuming I lived near a FLGS that was good about ordering things, or that even knew a given product existed, or that didn't claim a product didn't exist simply because the distributor told them so. You think that any FLGS within 30 minutes of me had FRED when it came out? Nope.

Heck, the PDF and indie (often one in the same) game companies depend upon this. Heck, online retail as a whole depends on this... and it seems to be working.

Originally posted by Hugh Neilson
Most are introduced to the hobby through friends who already play, or through the local gaming store, commonly because they alresady buy something else (commonly comics) at said store. ...new blood is essential if the hobby is to survive. Physical stores are a primary means by which we attract that new blood.
I'd be curious to know how many people started gaming solely because of a store. I'd also wager that the number of gamers and potential gamers who have 'Net access outnumbers those who live near a FLGS that offers these sort of "value added" services by a couple orders of magnitude.

I buy more games now than I ever have. This is partly due to the fact that I'm now an adult with disposable income, but it's also because I essentially have access to virtualy every single RPG ever produced at the touch of a button, and usually at a discount. I also have access to a *FAR* larger community than I did when all I had to rely upon were my friends and my FLGS, and that has been a *HUGE* influence on how I spend my gaming dollars.

Individual gamers, and the community which they comprise, have, IMHO, a much bigger impact.

I dunno. I've lived most of my life in major cities, primarily Chicago, which is just a stone's throw away from TSR's old HQ, i.e., RPG ground zero. Strangely, there have never been many gaming stores here (they're generally consigned to the distant suburbs), even pre-Web, much less ones which foster the kind of community-building you're accrediting to them. Most have actually activley turned away my business (by being rude, clueless, or even selling me on products I didn't really want and then having non-existent return policies, something I seem to never have to worry about with Amazon or FRPgames).

Ergo, I tend to support game *companies* as opposed to retailers (which I can do with all the money I save --and the points I earn with my Amazon Visa-- by shopping online). I also support online retailers and online communities*, because those are the entities which have been enhancing my gaming experience.

FLGS's will get my business when they earn it --such as Games Plus, which earns it by being super-friendly, offering frequent buyer programs, and hosting events I like to attend. If I didn't live about 45 minutes away, I'd probably buy more from them.

*You want to support the hobby? Become an RPG.net or ENWorld or (insert favorite Web community) member. The money you save on games from online retailers will pay for you community supporter account. :)

SAVeira

Feb 24th, '04, 08:18 AM

Originally posted by Tclynch
Face it, the game store is soon to pass. Book store are well lit and are more likely to attract a curious gamer than a game store. Online are for the smart spender. The hobby Will live without the game store.

What a statement.

The passing of the game store, would most likely kill the gaming business. Book stores have terrible stock, most just D&D stuff. Online store are not good for drawing new gamers. The game store is need by the industry.

I live in Canada, where the only HERO products have been found in my local game store and the only online stores that sell RPGs are local in the USA. Those that ship to Canada are a rip-off, with the exchange rate, shipping and then Customs Canada collecting fees.

Without a local game store, our hobby would die and I would not be able to get books or afford them.

S.A. Veira

Blue

Feb 24th, '04, 08:58 AM

Originally posted by Tclynch
Face it, the game store is soon to pass. Book store are well lit and are more likely to attract a curious gamer than a game store. Online are for the smart spender. The hobby Will live without the game store. I couldn't disagree more.

There are plenty of conveniences to buying online, but there are just as many to getting it yourself. And I have NEVER, EVER found a bookstore worth more than a moment's glance at the "gaming" section.

You can't peruse the book online. Most you'll get is an excerpt of a couple of pages, and that's likely the publisher's favorite part of the book.

You can't have the product immediately online.

In my case, shipping is not an option. I have no one to sign for a package, and if it's left by my door it will likely be stolen.

I typically get games FASTER if I buy them in person. (Online shippers have no sense of urgency. They don't understand my gaming fix! ;))

There's no interraction with other customers. Mind you, I like exchanging tales with you guys. But there's a big difference between this and going into a store with live people.

Game stores often provide someplace to actually gather and play.

Even online bookstores have blind spots. Try and find 5th edition hero products on Amazon. You can use the Z-Shop set up by Tina, but you can't spend a certificate/gift card. And all the main Amazon site offers if FREd itself.

As long as there are gamers there will be game stores.

Herolover

Feb 24th, '04, 09:01 AM

Originally posted by SAVeira
Without a local game store, our hobby would die and I would not be able to get books or afford them.
S.A. Veira

My heart says you are right and that our hobby would take a beating. However, my experience tells me otherwise.

I have been a gamer for 20+ years now. I didn't go to my first game store until I had been a gamer for 3 years. I currently live in an area where the nearest game store (other than a Hastings or Waldenbooks) is an hour and a half away.

And yet, I was introduced to gaming, learned it and have many books purchased directly froom companies. (Long before the internet.)

I would hate to see the B&M store go the way of the dodo, but I think I agree that they are hurting. Many stores now deal more in CCG's directed at kids in order to bring in money. I know a store right now that probably would not make it on RPG sales alone.

In my experience few game stores take someone unfamiliar with gaming and bring them in the fold. More often than not it is the person that is into one game that gets introduced into another game.

An example of this is the CCG's currently played by many pre-teens. It is my hope that they "graduate" into RPG's. However, they did not go to their local game stores and then pick up the CCG"s they went to the gamestore to get the CCG's.

I do think the "game store" will be around for a long time, but I think it is going to become either rarer or more diversified. I do not think that it would be a "deathnell" to gaming. Gaming would survive.

Chuk

Feb 24th, '04, 09:22 AM

Originally posted by SAVeira
I live in Canada, where the only HERO products have been found in my local game store and the only online stores that sell RPGs are local in the USA. Those that ship to Canada are a rip-off, with the exchange rate, shipping and then Customs Canada collecting fees.

That's weird -- the Canada I live in has places like CyberDungeon (http://www.cyberdungeon.com), Sentry Box (http://www.sentrybox.com/), and even Amazon.ca (http://www.amazon.ca), all of which are in Canada, with prices in Canadian dollars, and at least two of which offer free shipping for large enough orders (e.g. at Cyberdungeon, one copy of Fred would have been free shipping when it came out).

Personally, I do like FLGS better, but right now all I have is a SFLCSWAFG* and a couple of FDGSs. My last couple of Hero purchases have been at the Distant game stores (luckily, one is not too far from the hospital my daughter uses).

*Semi-Friendly Local Comic Store With A Few Games

buzz

Feb 24th, '04, 10:28 AM

Originally posted by Blue
Game stores often provide someplace to actually gather and play.
I'd argue that more often they don't. IMHO, this FLGS-as-gathering-place is a rarer bird than people are making it out to be.

FWIW, I've posted a poll about this (http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14191) over in General.

Derek Hiemforth

Feb 24th, '04, 12:15 PM

I agree that B&M stores are well-served to provide some added value in order to better compete with online stores. This shouldn't be too hard, as they already have some built-in value-added advantages... Instant Gratification. You can buy the book and take it home right now.
Local Player Network. You can meet other gamers through a game store... players that are local to your area, and who may not check the same online haunts you do when looking for new players.
Actual Game Site. Some B&M stores offer a place to play, which is vital to some gamers.
Browsability. You can (unless the store is one of the evil ones that shrink-wraps things) pick up a book and flip through it before deciding whether to buy it. I've lost track of how many times I've picked up a book in a game store, a book I wouldn't have given a second thought to buying online, and ended up buying it because what I saw in the book was so cool.
Hooking Casual Buyers. Occasionally, someone who came in for a more mundane game, for themselves or as a gift for someone else, may be interested enough in the other games to check them out. This probably doesn't happen too often, but it will happen more often than it would if the casual buyer went to Toyz R Us (or bought online) instead.
Unfortunately, it seems like many B&M store operators give little thought to maximizing these advantages and adding new ones. It seems instead like many of them just opened a game store because they thought it would be cool to be able to buy all their personal gaming gear at wholesale prices. ;)

I don't think the FLGS will go away completely any time soon. Instead, I suspect that less "with-it" stores will die off, and the ones who focus on their advantages will thrive.

James Lowder

Feb 24th, '04, 01:15 PM

Originally posted by Koshka
Pulp Hero, Thrilling Hero Tales, Masterminds and Madmen and Golden Age Champions are definite buys. (And how did you snag the Lester Dent story?)

I'd tell you how I came up with the unpublished Dent story, but then I'd have to add you to the list of human sacrifices we still owe for getting the thing contracted. ;)

Actually, if a deceased author has someone running his estate who knows what he or she is doing, or the author's papers have been housed at a university or archive that's on the ball, there's a chance the contact person will be able to clue you in on unpublished material. When Green Knight published the collected Arthurian stories of Theodore Goodridge Roberts, as part of the Pendragon fiction line, we came across a completed, but unpublished story by Roberts that concluded the long story cycle about Sir Dinadan he'd published over the years in places like Blue Book. Seems Roberts had planned to collect all the Dinadan stories up in one book and cap them off with this new, final tale, but he didn't find a publisher before he died. And so the story sat, as part of his papers in an archive up in Canada, until Green Knight came along.

Same sort of thing with the Dent story. I know the person running the estate, and when I mentioned the pulp anthology, he told me about this previously unpublished hardboiled/weird menace tale.

Cheers,
James Lowder

Blue

Feb 24th, '04, 01:16 PM

Originally posted by buzz
I'd argue that more often they don't. IMHO, this FLGS-as-gathering-place is a rarer bird than people are making it out to be.

FWIW, I've posted a poll about this (http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14191) over in General. I've got two local game stores. Both of them feature groups of roleplayers on a regular basis. That's 100% of my local stores.

Derek Hiemforth

Feb 24th, '04, 01:28 PM

Originally posted by buzz
I'd argue that more often they don't. IMHO, this FLGS-as-gathering-place is a rarer bird than people are making it out to be. I dunno... I can think of five stores in the Sacramento area that are either specialty game stores, or combination games/comics stores that have a large gaming supply. Of those five stores, four of them have gaming space. :)

Steve Long

Feb 24th, '04, 01:49 PM

I'd tell you how I came up with the unpublished Dent story, but then I'd have to add you to the list of human sacrifices we still owe for getting the thing contracted.

As you can probably guess from his post, folx, James Lowder, aka God of Gaming-Related Fiction, is the guy who's spearheading the pulp anthology for us. With Jim at the helm, you can be assured of quality stories!

I should also point out that I got the title a bit wrong -- it's Astounding Hero Tales, not Thrilling. We'd been talking about Thrilling all along, so I had that stuck in my head, but we recently discovered that another publisher is publishing a story collection with a similar title, so we decided to change to AHT to avoid confusion. Now I'm the only one who's confused. ;)

Steve Long

Feb 24th, '04, 01:53 PM

I dunno... I can think of five stores in the Sacramento area that are either specialty game stores, or combination games/comics stores that have a large gaming supply. Of those five stores, four of them have gaming space.

I don't have a single shred of scientific evidence on the subject (since I don't think there is any), but I know that of the many game stores I've visited all over the US, every single one that I would regard as "good" -- that has a large stock of products from a wide variety of publishers, that does good business, that is clean and well-run, that does enough business to support its owner and employees, that's run like a business and not a hobby/way for the owner to get his games at wholesale prices -- has in-store play space. The intent (and I think it's a good one) is to make the store more of a destination, and to encourage purchases of products someone might not otherwise buy, by exposing them to the stuff in the store when they're playing. It's a great marketing tactic -- similar, I think, to the "reading nooks" and coffee bars that are now so common in bookstores.

Given all the trouble my friends and I used to have finding a place to play back when we were in high school, I wish we'd had a store around here with play space back then. It would've saved a lot of trouble.

buzz

Feb 24th, '04, 02:24 PM

Originally posted by Derek Hiemforth
I dunno... I can think of five stores in the Sacramento area that are either specialty game stores, or combination games/comics stores that have a large gaming supply. Of those five stores, four of them have gaming space. :)
Maybe this is a more prevalent West Coast thing? (Assuming Blue is really from "the OC." :) )

Derek Hiemforth

Feb 24th, '04, 02:26 PM

And in fairness to the one store in my area that doesn't have gaming space, it's because the store is very tiny, and there's just no way they could possibly fit it in. Also, they make up for that lack in other ways. The owner is knowledgeable and friendly, and they have an extremely wide selection of games (they may not have lots of copies of any one thing due to their limited shelf space, but they've got at least one of almost everything). They even keep a "Hero saver" for me.

So this is the FLGS to whom I give the majority of my business, because their solid customer service and variety make up for being tiny and cramped with no gaming space. ;)

(Seriously, the owner of this shop could give master classes to other retailers in how to make the most out of a small space. Every time I go in there, I'm amazed that she can cram so much variety into such a small footprint.)

Galadorn

Feb 24th, '04, 02:29 PM

Originally posted by Ben Seeman
http://www.herogames.com/Products/sched2005.jsp

Looks interesting Ben. :)

Galadorn

Feb 24th, '04, 02:32 PM

Originally posted by Steve Long
I don't have a single shred of scientific evidence on the subject (since I don't think there is any), but I know that of the many game stores I've visited all over the US, every single one that I would regard as "good" -- that has a large stock of products from a wide variety of publishers, that does good business, that is clean and well-run, that does enough business to support its owner and employees, that's run like a business and not a hobby/way for the owner to get his games at wholesale prices -- has in-store play space.

Well, that wouldn't include the "Compleat Strategist," on 33rd St. in New York. They're a nice, clean store - but no gaming space. :eek: Now, the other store "Neutral Ground," on 44th Street, does. ;) Of course the Compleat Strategist had "Monster, Minions and Marauders," and Neutral Ground didn't. It's a trade-off. And the Compleat Strategist had about three dozen Hero Games books, with a great variety, and Neutral Ground had about one dozen, with little variety.

SuperPheemy

Feb 26th, '04, 01:27 PM

Originally posted by Derek Hiemforth
And in fairness to the one store in my area that doesn't have gaming space, it's because the store is very tiny, and there's just no way they could possibly fit it in. Also, they make up for that lack in other ways. The owner is knowledgeable and friendly, and they have an extremely wide selection of games (they may not have lots of copies of any one thing due to their limited shelf space, but they've got at least one of almost everything). They even keep a "Hero saver" for me.

So this is the FLGS to whom I give the majority of my business, because their solid customer service and variety make up for being tiny and cramped with no gaming space. ;)

(Seriously, the owner of this shop could give master classes to other retailers in how to make the most out of a small space. Every time I go in there, I'm amazed that she can cram so much variety into such a small footprint.)

Is that Viking Hobby of which you speak?

Derek Hiemforth

Feb 26th, '04, 04:01 PM

Originally posted by SuperPheemy
Is that Viking Hobby of which you speak? It is indeed. :)

Enforcer84

Feb 29th, '04, 12:29 AM

I don't have a FLGS. I have a crumudgeonly owned comic book store that never seems to actually order the Game Books I ask for.
I told them 9 months ago to get me any and all hero games products. Simple; whenever the demons at godforsaken Diamond Distributers sent a price sheet with any HERO games products on it; get me one. There is another guy who did the same thing.

Here's the rub
HE got his books. I NEVER got one.
I went in every day for three weeks and never saw USPD; or Terran Empire; or anything. I will never order games from them again. They never ordered more than the two Andrew and I bought and they only seemed to stock d20. I now order online.

BTW; to those herophiles in OR; where do you get your hero games?
Maybe it would be worth the trip for me.

lemming

Feb 29th, '04, 02:02 AM

Originally posted by Enforcer84
BTW; to those herophiles in OR; where do you get your hero games?
Maybe it would be worth the trip for me.
In Portland, Bridgetown Hobby (http://www.bthobbies.com/) is pretty good.
Rainy Day Games seems to be a source for some. Of course, there is that Gamestorm coming up next weekend. I was disappointed in the dealer room offerings, but I was spoiled by DunDraCon.

BobGreenwade

Feb 29th, '04, 07:28 AM

Originally posted by lemming
In Portland, Bridgetown Hobby (http://www.bthobbies.com/) is pretty good. Pretty good? Every time I'm in there they have at least one of every Hero book currently in the catalog.

Compare that to the two stores I know of here in Corvallis, Trump's Hobbies (FREd, TUV, and maybe one or two other books -- though games guy Jim deBoer is really good about making special orders and making sure they come through if at all possible) and Matt's Cavalcade of Comics (completely ignoring Hero, GURPS, and almost any other system in favor of just about every d20 book on the market).

I know there's a good place just outside the downtown area of Salem, where Chris "Archer" Goodwin works (or used to work -- I'm only assuming he's still there). It's called Borderlands Games (
www.borderlandsgames.com) I've never actually set foot inside (for some reason I'm always in a rush when I'm in Salem these days -- I'm going to have to do something about that soon), but I do know Chris makes sure there's Hero stuff around.

In Eugene, Emerald City Comics and Games is a good place, though their selection of Hero stuff these days is a bit sparse. There's another called Planet of Sand which I've visited who are a little more up to date.

Personally, though, I tend to order my stuff through FRPGames. It's a budget-based decision -- the price break there is more than the shipping costs, especially when I buy more than one book at the same time.

Hugh Neilson

Feb 29th, '04, 03:56 PM

Originally posted by Enforcer84
I told them 9 months ago to get me any and all hero games products. Simple; whenever the demons at godforsaken Diamond Distributers sent a price sheet with any HERO games products on it; get me one. There is another guy who did the same thing.

If they order everything Diamond actually becomes aware of, you should get about 1/3 of the products, maybe less. My FLGS owner is having a terrible time finding a decent distributor for Hero products. He has run a search through Diamond. Some products they acknowledge exist. Others they find nothing resembling.

Still others...Asked about VIPER, they suggested a VIPER Mech model....:confused:

Balok

Feb 29th, '04, 07:08 PM

Originally posted by Hugh Neilson
My FLGS owner is having a terrible time finding a decent distributor for Hero products.

Send him <a href="http://www.herogames.com/Products/heroretailers.htm#DIST">here</a>.

BlackSword

Feb 29th, '04, 07:53 PM

Originally posted by Hugh Neilson
If they order everything Diamond actually becomes aware of, you should get about 1/3 of the products, maybe less. My FLGS owner is having a terrible time finding a decent distributor for Hero products. He has run a search through Diamond. Some products they acknowledge exist. Others they find nothing resembling.
My FLGS is claiming the same thing. I had a bit of a blow up at them because I ordered Sharper then a Serpan't Tooth on the 1st of Feb and they still haven't gotten it. They say their distributor doesn't always get even coverage across the country (a bit annoying since Death Tribble said he picked up StaST in London). I don't know if they are being bad about ordering, or if the distributor is poor about ordering. When I get back next week I will probably go in and, apologize for being a pain and suggest they talk to their distributor.

Lord Mhoram

Mar 1st, '04, 01:41 AM

Originally posted by Hugh Neilson
If they order everything Diamond actually becomes aware of, you should get about 1/3 of the products, maybe less.

Yeah. The last three books were not listed in Previews or carried through Diamond. Alliance had them, but they are a pain in thier own ways. We ordered 8 Sidekicks and got 5. Sigh.....

Hugh Neilson

Mar 1st, '04, 06:07 AM

Originally posted by Balok
Send him <a href="http://www.herogames.com/Products/heroretailers.htm#DIST">here</a>.

Been there. Did that. He was already ordering through Everest, who is on the list. However, Everest recently told him they submitted an order, but it was rejected because it wasn't large enough (some reference to about $600 in product).

SCUBA Hero

Mar 1st, '04, 07:00 AM

Originally posted by BlackSword
My FLGS is claiming the same thing. I had a bit of a blow up at them because I ordered Sharper then a Serpan't Tooth on the 1st of Feb and they still haven't gotten it. Blacksword,

Are you shopping at The Fantasy Shop in St. Charles? If not, check them out. If so, that's odd, they ususally have a decent Hero selection in their Illinois shop.

I have a standing pre-order to buy all Hero books (waves to Steve Long) at Medieval Starship in Illinois. It's a bit of a drive for you, but they get their Hero stuff reasonably fast - plus, they give a 10% discount for pre-orders.

They're on the web at medievalstarship.com

Blue

Mar 1st, '04, 07:48 AM

Even my local comic book store has gaming space for weekly heroclix tourneys.

Of the three local RPG stores that I bother to go to, only one has no gaming space, but then it was always my least favorite of them anyway.

Balok

Mar 1st, '04, 09:26 AM

If the distributor is saying HERO won't take orders less than a certain total, that's something you'll have to ask Darren about.

If Everest has so few clients he can't move $600 worth of HERO merchandise, even at distributor prices, I pity him. Suggest your store try Alliance or one of the other distributors large enough to serve their customers well.

Darren Watts

Mar 1st, '04, 10:50 AM

Okay, first of all our distributor terms require a minimum order of $200 wholesale in order to get free shipping. There is no actual minimum order requirement. I don't know where the $600 came from, since even if he means retail the math is wrong. To my knowledge we have never "refused" an order from Everest, though we may have told them they had to pay freight and they themselves withdrew an order. As Balok notes, a distributor who doesn't order even $200 of our books at a time is of minimal help to us.

Secondly, we have two other excellent distributors in Canada who carry far more Hero product in Lion Rampant and New Century. I recommend both whole-heartedly to any Canadian retailer.

Thirdly, our problems with getting Diamond to notice and advertise our product are ongoing. We're aware of the situation and are working on it. dw

Hugh Neilson

Mar 1st, '04, 12:14 PM

Originally posted by Darren Watts
Okay, first of all our distributor terms require a minimum order of $200 wholesale in order to get free shipping. There is no actual minimum order requirement. I don't know where the $600 came from, since even if he means retail the math is wrong. To my knowledge we have never "refused" an order from Everest, though we may have told them they had to pay freight and they themselves withdrew an order. As Balok notes, a distributor who doesn't order even $200 of our books at a time is of minimal help to us.

Let's just say neither I nor my FLGS owner are very trusting of Everest and leave it at that (it took them three months plus to come up with that excuse...).

Originally posted by Darren Watts
Secondly, we have two other excellent distributors in Canada who carry far more Hero product in Lion Rampant and New Century. I recommend both whole-heartedly to any Canadian retailer.

We are actually looking at one of those (the one with a web site), so the commendation is positive to hear. Thanks.

Originally posted by Darren Watts
Thirdly, our problems with getting Diamond to notice and advertise our product are ongoing. We're aware of the situation and are working on it. dw

I think that's more of a Diamond problem than a Hero problem. Just getting what they do advertise is sometimes a problem.

Enforcer84

Mar 2nd, '04, 04:28 PM

Originally posted by BobGreenwade
Pretty good? Every time I'm in there they have at least one of every Hero book currently in the catalog.

Compare that to the two stores I know of here in Corvallis, Trump's Hobbies (FREd, TUV, and maybe one or two other books -- though games guy Jim deBoer is really good about making special orders and making sure they come through if at all possible) and Matt's Cavalcade of Comics (completely ignoring Hero, GURPS, and almost any other system in favor of just about every d20 book on the market).

I know there's a good place just outside the downtown area of Salem, where Chris "Archer" Goodwin works (or used to work -- I'm only assuming he's still there). It's called Borderlands Games (
www.borderlandsgames.com) I've never actually set foot inside (for some reason I'm always in a rush when I'm in Salem these days -- I'm going to have to do something about that soon), but I do know Chris makes sure there's Hero stuff around.

In Eugene, Emerald City Comics and Games is a good place, though their selection of Hero stuff these days is a bit sparse. There's another called Planet of Sand which I've visited who are a little more up to date.

Personally, though, I tend to order my stuff through FRPGames. It's a budget-based decision -- the price break there is more than the shipping costs, especially when I buy more than one book at the same time.

I used to work at Trumps Hobbies (Circa 1991-2) ordered most of the gming stuff for them. I still don't like going in there. But they often have a pretty good selection. Work across the street from Matt's and yes, I never see anything but d20 there.
Loved Emerald City when I lived in Eugene. I miss Endgames. Used to be one in Eugene and one in the Clakamus Town Center. Got so so many of my hero products there...

*sigh*

BobGreenwade

Mar 2nd, '04, 05:03 PM

Originally posted by Enforcer84
Work across the street from Matt's and yes, I never see anything but d20 there. Do you happen to know what's going on in the former diving shop next to Matt's? It had some good gaming space for a while, but now it seems to be closed off and I'm not clear on what's up there. I'd been hoping to stage my Star Hero game there if and when I get it going.

Talon

Mar 14th, '04, 11:31 AM

My take on the FLGS situation: I moved to a new area and met all the gamers I know via the FLGS and their play area, by starting a campaign there. For me anyway, it's invaluable.

My take on the 2005 product line:

Teen Champions: Definite buy, I like this kind of theme book.

Dark Champions Battlegrounds: Almost certain buy. I have to say that without immediately usable maps, these types of books are less useful to me -- I found Champions Battlegrounds OK. Definitely a "support DOJ" purchase.

5th Edition Revised: Definite buy. I'm a rules-hound, what can I say.

The Ultimate Metamorph: See above. :) I would hope that any relevant rules stuff from here would make it into 5R.

Hidden Lands: Definite buy. I like the CU and this seems like an interesting addition.

Underworld Sourcebook: Probably buy. For some reason this book doesn't reach out and grab me. I'll probably wait to see if the research and info are SL/Dark Champions level, and then make a decision.

Everyman: This also seems like it could be hit or miss, so I'll wait for reviews and decide.

Nobles, Knights, and Necromancers: I can't judge this until Turakian Age comes out; if I like TA I'll definitely buy this book.

Dark Champions: TAS: Probable buy. This sounds like an awesome book, but for some reason the theme grabs me less than Teen Champions.

Champions Worldwide, VVV: Yes and yes, villain books = good.

Enchanted Items: I have a personal desire to see more FH information on balancing campaigns (magic in particular); thus I will probably judge this book on the amount of such info it contains. If it's just a list of magic items it will have to be very clever.

Ultimate Speedster & Mentalist: Definite buys, love the Ultimate series.

Scourges: Definite buy, I love Terran Empires.

Pulp Hero: I don't play much pulp myself, but I like it enough, and applaud Hero for publishing this book. A "support DOJ" purchase.

Asian Bestiary: Not my cup of tea, may or may not buy.

Astounding/whatever Hero Tales: Will listen to reviews and buy based on what people think of the fiction.

Golden Age Champions: I actually don't own the previous versions (though I've read them both), so I'll be getting this one.

Masterminds and Madmen: Though I don't play pulp, I expect to see a lot of good stuff in here and will buy it.

What I don't see that I'd like to: More material for new GMs on balancing the Hero System. SL and crew have taken the first step of making Hero easier with USPD and Sidekick; IMO, the next step is condensing Hero wisdom into material that newcomers can digest.

Enforcer84

Mar 14th, '04, 10:29 PM

Originally posted by BobGreenwade
Do you happen to know what's going on in the former diving shop next to Matt's? It had some good gaming space for a while, but now it seems to be closed off and I'm not clear on what's up there. I'd been hoping to stage my Star Hero game there if and when I get it going.

Yeah, I do.

They gave Matt a real good deal on the rent for the remainder of the Dive Shop's Contract. Then when that came up he had to move out. He took a HUGE portion of a Warehouse area in back and I think he has plans to do Gaming Tables there. You should ask him about it, he tends to need proding.

BobGreenwade

Mar 14th, '04, 10:57 PM

Originally posted by Enforcer84
They gave Matt a real good deal on the rent for the remainder of the Dive Shop's Contract. Then when that came up he had to move out. He took a HUGE portion of a Warehouse area in back and I think he has plans to do Gaming Tables there. You should ask him about it, he tends to need proding. I'll try to do that (I'll have to overcome some anxiety disorders, but it'll be good practice).

And say, since you're in Corvallis, do you think you'd like to sign up for my game? It won't be starting until after Worlds Of Empire is out (at the very earliest; I also have some employment issues to deal with right now), but it never hurts to have the PCs figured out early for purposes of planning. If you think you'd like to try it, send me a private email. :D

Enforcer84

Mar 14th, '04, 11:05 PM

Hey are you following me? :)

Chris Goodwin

Mar 15th, '04, 10:17 AM

Originally posted by BobGreenwade
Pretty good? Every time I'm in there they have at least one of every Hero book currently in the catalog.

Compare that to the two stores I know of here in Corvallis, Trump's Hobbies (FREd, TUV, and maybe one or two other books -- though games guy Jim deBoer is really good about making special orders and making sure they come through if at all possible) and Matt's Cavalcade of Comics (completely ignoring Hero, GURPS, and almost any other system in favor of just about every d20 book on the market).

When I was in Corvallis I bought all of my gaming stuff at Trump's.

I know there's a good place just outside the downtown area of Salem, where Chris "Archer" Goodwin works (or used to work -- I'm only assuming he's still there). It's called Borderlands Games (
www.borderlandsgames.com) I've never actually set foot inside (for some reason I'm always in a rush when I'm in Salem these days -- I'm going to have to do something about that soon), but I do know Chris makes sure there's Hero stuff around.

Not me. :D I've never worked in downtown Salem; have worked in south and north Salem. I've been to Borderlands maybe twice in my life. You might be thinking of someone else?

Rainy Day Games (about a mile and a half from me in Aloha) is pretty good. Last time I was in there (a couple of weeks ago) I think they had everything Hero has in print.

BobGreenwade

Mar 15th, '04, 10:34 AM

Originally posted by archer
When I was in Corvallis I bought all of my gaming stuff at Trump's. Great place... :D
I've never worked in downtown Salem; have worked in south and north Salem. I've been to Borderlands maybe twice in my life. You might be thinking of someone else? Most likely.

Chris Goodwin

Mar 15th, '04, 10:41 AM

Originally posted by Steve Long
Given all the trouble my friends and I used to have finding a place to play back when we were in high school, I wish we'd had a store around here with play space back then. It would've saved a lot of trouble.

I got extremely lucky in high school. There weren't any stores with places to play, but I belonged to a group with its own club space. Sadly, they lost the lease on the space in ~1987, and then I left for the Air Force in 1988, but as far as I know at least some of those guys are still gaming together.

Toadmaster

Mar 15th, '04, 11:35 AM

Originally posted by Talon
What I don't see that I'd like to: More material for new GMs on balancing the Hero System. SL and crew have taken the first step of making Hero easier with USPD and Sidekick; IMO, the next step is condensing Hero wisdom into material that newcomers can digest.

This actually seems like a good idea for a PDF like the errata, maybe a "HERO GM Tips by HERO GM's" a collection of ideas suggestions and house rulings to help GM's add flavor to their games, deal with common problems, adjust game speed etc. This could be useful to new and old HERO players, I'd be interested in this myself.

buzz

Mar 15th, '04, 11:56 AM

Originally posted by Toadmaster
This actually seems like a good idea for a PDF like the errata, maybe a "HERO GM Tips by HERO GM's" a collection of ideas suggestions and house rulings to help GM's add flavor to their games, deal with common problems, adjust game speed etc.
Sounds to me like something that should be included in the revised FRED. The main, book, IMHO, doesn't really need a lot of general GM advice (of which there is plenty in the various genre books); I'd be happy to see this replaced with the above.

Vondy

Mar 15th, '04, 11:59 AM

My take on the 2005 product line (in terms of whether or not my pocket book opens up):

Teen Champions: No.

Dark Champions Battlegrounds: Yes.

5th Edition Revised: Yes - the FAQ is unweildy.

The Ultimate Metamorph: Iffy.

Hidden Lands: No.

Underworld Sourcebook: Yes.

Everyman: Iffy.

Nobles, Knights, and Necromancers: No.

Dark Champions: TAS: I'll buy it.

Champions Worldwide, VVV: depends whats in it.

Enchanted Items: No.

Ultimate Speedster & Mentalist: Speedster No, Mentalist Yes.

Scourges: No.

Pulp Hero: Pulp rocks. Yes.

Asian Bestiary: No.

Astounding/whatever Hero Tales: depends on the reviews.

Golden Age Champions: No.

Masterminds and Madmen: Yes.

Toadmaster

Mar 15th, '04, 10:56 PM

Originally posted by buzz
Sounds to me like something that should be included in the revised FRED. The main, book, IMHO, doesn't really need a lot of general GM advice (of which there is plenty in the various genre books); I'd be happy to see this replaced with the above.

Are you serious, we don't all happen to own semi's to haul FRED around with, My Tacoma is maxed out as it is when I have to take my HERO books on walkabout. :rolleyes:

Actually thats not a bad idea either but I was thinking the advantage of a pdf would be its less official status. DoJ could include "unofficial" ideas picked up from various sources including the boards on how players alter things to suit their playing own styles (to speed chart or not to speed chart). They are already pretty laid back about altering rules but the official book does not seem to me to be the appropriate place to discuss "changing" the rules to alter the game effect, while a pdf "advice book" could offer less official ideas as food for thought. Either way I think it would be a nice addition.

AlHazred

Mar 16th, '04, 05:06 AM

I intend to continue the same trend I started this year: to buy everything Hero produces. It's either that or buy a new house...

BobGreenwade

Mar 16th, '04, 06:32 AM

Originally posted by Toadmaster
Actually thats not a bad idea either but I was thinking the advantage of a pdf would be its less official status. DoJ could include "unofficial" ideas picked up from various sources including the boards on how players alter things to suit their playing own styles (to speed chart or not to speed chart). They are already pretty laid back about altering rules but the official book does not seem to me to be the appropriate place to discuss "changing" the rules to alter the game effect, while a pdf "advice book" could offer less official ideas as food for thought. Either way I think it would be a nice addition. I think this sounds (or reads -- whatever) more like a good idea for a series of Digital Hero articles. ;)

TheQuestionMan

Apr 19th, '04, 02:05 PM

I would rather see some of these books put onto the 2004 schedual and others released before rather than after , but here's my 2.25 cents
( Canadian yah know )

Teen Champions 50/50
I'll buy it to get the Ravenswood information.

Dark Champions Battlegrounds 80/20
Iron age/dark genre adventures 20% / MAPS 80%

The HERO System 5th Edition, Revised 50/50
I guess we will have to see .

The Ultimate Metamorph 75/25
One of my favourite , but you'll have to work hard to get my money .

Hidden Lands 50 / 50
I hope they include info on Beast Mountain, Monster Island, Shamballah, The Valley Of Night, and the Kingdom Of The Apes as well.

The Underworld Sourcebook 50 / 50
I'll wait and see how it affects DC:TAS

Everyman 50 / 50
I'd be more interested if it contained Characters and their Package Deals . Otherwise I've got the older published stuff . So wait and see .

Nobles, Knights, And Necromancers 20 / 80
It should have been part of M3

Dark Champions: The Animated Series 75 / 25
I love this concept and think it would be a great way to introduce younger players to HERO , CHAMPIONS , and PULP RPGing .

Champions Worldwide 75 / 25
It's really important that this book provide a really international flavour . In other words , light on anything north american and European .

Villains, Vandals, And Vermin 75 / 25
Good character stories and good supporting caste to the villians . Not just their agents , but their bankers , lawyers , etc ...

Enchanted Items 100
What can I say . I'm a sucker for this kind of book .

The Ultimate Speedster 50 / 50
If it matches the TUB in utility then yes , otherwise hmmm...

The Ultimate Mentalist 50 / 50
No Psi warriors please , and keep up the creative use of basc powers . Combat Manuvers , etc...

Pulp Hero 75 / 25
Read first then decide , but definitely leaning towards buying .

The Asian Bestiary 100
Hurry up already I want this book !!!

Thrilling Hero Tales 50 / 50
Curiousier and curiousier

Golden Age Champions 0
Not my shtick at all . Who knew ?

Masterminds And Madmen 75 / 25
Not just a character book I hope , but a GM guide to runnning villians and villainous PAckage Deals , Minions , etc...