HOW WOULD YOU 1: Regeneration

[JmOz]

There are certain rules that people don't seem to like, but no one can agree on a better system, so I decided to start some threads about them.

First up is Regeneration. I feel that Steve has made this power more comlicated than it needed to be, I personaly would have done one of two thing with it instead

1) Added Healing, but left Regeneration, including the Healing adders to it.

2) Changed it so it was time based, again include the adders from Healing. For 10 points (would like to play test this first it might be only worth 5 in play) the healing time goes down one on the time chart so

00 ... ... 00 ... ... Recover BODY per REC per Month
05 ... ... 10 ... ... Recover BODY per REC per week
10 ... ... 20 ... ... Recover BODY per REC per day
15 ... ... 30 ... ... Recover BODY per REC per 5 hours
20 ... ... 40 ... ... Recover BODY per REC per hour
25 ... ... 50 ... ... Recover BODY per REC per 20 Min
30 ... ... 60 ... ... Recover BODY per REC per 5 Min
35 ... ... 70 ... ... Recover BODY per REC per Minute
40 ... ... 80 ... ... Recover BODY per REC per Turn


I would probably add in one level saying that if you take a recovery you gain body back. The various adders will take as long as the cycle period to heal

[Derek Hiemforth]

How about this...

Separate Resurrection from Healing/Regen. Since the details of when/how the character returns to life are up to the GM anyway, it doesn't necessarily need to be tied to Regen. They wouldn't necessarily even need to have Regen. (For example, you could use Resurrection without Regen to simulate a character that reincarnates after some length of time.) Make Resurrection a Talent that costs 20 points.

Then make Regeneration an Advantage on REC. For a +1/2 Advantage, the time frame in which the character heals back BODY is decreased by one step on the Time Chart (to a minimum of once per Turn -- a +4 Advantage). This is most often bought on only part of a character's REC.

For example, a character that has 1 point of their REC bought with the full +4 level of Regeneration pays 10 points to be able to heal 1 BODY per Turn instead of per month. 2 REC at this level would cost 20 points, and so on.

This setup avoids the issues of the healing being Continuous or Uncontrolled or 0 END or what have you. REC is already 0 END and Persistent. :)

[JmOz]

Derek,

That is a realy interesting idea. Healing would still need to keep the adders obviously. Heal limbs would also need to a talent (though admitingly these two seem extremly powerful for talents)

[Derek Hiemforth]

Originally posted by JmOz
Heal limbs would also need to a talentMmmmm... maybe. I dunno, I don't really see re-growing limbs as that big a deal. I guess you could make Regrows Limbs a Talent (10 points or so), and also divorce that from Regen. A character with the Talent would re-grow limbs as they regained the requisite BODY, whether they regained that BODY via Regen, Healing, or simply normal REC time.

[Hugh Neilson]

Originally posted by Derek Hiemforth
Then make Regeneration an Advantage on REC. For a +1/2 Advantage, the time frame in which the character heals back BODY is decreased by one step on the Time Chart (to a minimum of once per Turn -- a +4 Advantage). This is most often bought on only part of a character's REC.

For example, a character that has 1 point of their REC bought with the full +4 level of Regeneration pays 10 points to be able to heal 1 BODY per Turn instead of per month. 2 REC at this level would cost 20 points, and so on.

Actually, since the character already has some REC, he would be paying 8 points (the +4 naked advantage) for making 1 point of recovery act 1/turn for purposes of recovering BOD.

While the current rule is admittedly somewhat cumbersome, at the end of the day one need only know 1 point of regeneration costs 8 points. I don't see the advantage on REC being significantly more intuitive to someone not familiar with Hero, and the current Regen isn't too ugly for someone who is. Of curse, just setting it at 8 points for 1 point of regeneration would be even more intuitive, but that changes the math on the time scale a lot.

For me, a better question is why the advantage "no maximum" was left off of the computations for Regeneration. Unlike most healing, Regen doesn't cap out based on the number of dice. Regen also heals 2 CP/die , instead of the usual 3 "standard roll", so an advantage has clearly been applied. Working the math, it is a +1 advantage, which makes sense. So why not allow that (with an appropriate Stop Sign) for Heal, Absorb and Transfer?

[Derek Hiemforth]

Originally posted by Hugh Neilson
I don't see the advantage on REC being significantly more intuitive to someone not familiar with HeroI think it's more intuitive because REC is the normal means of regaining lost BODY without outside assistance (Healing). I think applying an Advantage to that existing mechanism is more intuitive than adding a different mechanism.

[AnotherSkip]

Can you regen stuff other than BODY?

[devlin1]

It's in the FAQ under Healing (which I've been reading lately, because I've been retooling my regenerating character on an almost-daily basis). Steve's answer is basically, "Yeah, I guess, if the GM says it's okay."

[Champsguy]

Since the only Hero mechanic for losing limbs is an optional rule, I don't see why you'd need to pay extra points to regen limbs. I'd make it a limitation on Regeneration if you couldn't do it.

In 4th Edition, it never said you didn't regen limbs.

[GamePhil]

An idea that I was playing around with was based, oddly enough, on Penalty Levels. Currently, these can only be used to offset penalties in combat. Basically, it went something like this:

1. Allow Penalty Skill Levels to apply to skills and other abilities.
2. Allow characters to do things in under the minimum time by applying a skill penalty. So, you could use your PSL's for some time warping/superspeed effects.
3. Allow the highest point PSL's to be applied to reduce time on things that don't normally use rolls, such as Recovering Body.

And like that. Again, you have to disassociate Resurrection from this form of rapid healing.

On the other hand, I don't really have a problem with Regeneration as it is. I do have a slight problem with Healing, though, but that's another matter.

[KA.]

Just to toss in a couple of coppers,

I was discussing this on a thread where I am redoing a 4th Ed. Character.

I was wondering if it might be possible to link Resurrection/Regeneration to NCM in some way.

That way, it would still be quite expensive in Fantasy Hero or Dark Champions (assuming it uses NCM), which would go along with the "normal humans" idea, but in a Superhero world, where people don't seem to take a lot of Body, and it is mostly a part of your "schtick" it would not cost as much.

So, if you wanted to go the Talent route, it would cost twice as much for "normal humans" to buy Regeneration/Resurrection, as it would "Superhumans".

Just a suggestion,

KA.

[GamePhil]

Originally posted by KA.
I was wondering if it might be possible to link Resurrection/Regeneration to NCM in some way.


Which brings up another bit of idle musing: adding an Advantage/Limitation for Powers that are more or less powerful because of the setting. So, if Resurrection is appropriate but even more useful than it is normally, you could apply a +1 Advantage, but in a game where death is exceedingly rare you might apply a -2 Limitation.

As for making it a Talent, as previously mentioned: Talents don't really exist as a separate entity in 5th Edition, like they did in 4th. They're just built using Powers and Skills (usually: some of them cheat a bit). So, if it is to be divorced from Regeneration, it should really be its own Power.

That doesn't stop a new Talent from being created from it, of course. For example, in a particularly cinematic, but otherwise Heroic, game, you might have "Playing Dead", where the character is only truly killed by verifying the kill (usually by putting a few more bullets in it). Alternatives might be "You Are One Ugly...", while in a Superhero game this might be "No One Could Have Survived That", where the character is only really dead if killed by something reasonable and a corpse is available (Captain Marvel dying of cancer, for example, but not Doctor Destroyer blasting himself to atoms).

[zornwil]

Originally posted by Derek Hiemforth
How about this...

Separate Resurrection from Healing/Regen. Since the details of when/how the character returns to life are up to the GM anyway, it doesn't necessarily need to be tied to Regen. They wouldn't necessarily even need to have Regen. (For example, you could use Resurrection without Regen to simulate a character that reincarnates after some length of time.) Make Resurrection a Talent that costs 20 points.

Then make Regeneration an Advantage on REC. For a +1/2 Advantage, the time frame in which the character heals back BODY is decreased by one step on the Time Chart (to a minimum of once per Turn -- a +4 Advantage). This is most often bought on only part of a character's REC.

For example, a character that has 1 point of their REC bought with the full +4 level of Regeneration pays 10 points to be able to heal 1 BODY per Turn instead of per month. 2 REC at this level would cost 20 points, and so on.

This setup avoids the issues of the healing being Continuous or Uncontrolled or 0 END or what have you. REC is already 0 END and Persistent. :)

I'm partial to this. REC is a key ingredient of the game and simply using it to represent regeneration makes a lot of sense on many levels, particularly consistency.

And in theory you'd have a similar dichotomy as you have now for Healing, where gaining BOD as an "unnatural" (not REC-based) device would be done via an Aid still.

[Champsguy]

Originally posted by GamePhil

That doesn't stop a new Talent from being created from it, of course. For example, in a particularly cinematic, but otherwise Heroic, game, you might have "Playing Dead", where the character is only truly killed by verifying the kill (usually by putting a few more bullets in it). Alternatives might be "You Are One Ugly...", while in a Superhero game this might be "No One Could Have Survived That", where the character is only really dead if killed by something reasonable and a corpse is available (Captain Marvel dying of cancer, for example, but not Doctor Destroyer blasting himself to atoms).

Ooh. I like this.