Ninja Hero vs Ultimate Martial Artists

[jonson]

From what little I am interpretting from their descriptions:

Ninja Hero is a "genre" book.

Ultimate Martial Artist is a "mechanics" book?

Can someone who has both give me a better idea what each covers -- I want to include martial arts in a modern day super spies/streetfighter type campaign and curious which I should spend my money on...

[Lord Liaden]

Essentially, both of these books are martial-arts "how to" manuals. In the case of the Ultimate Martial Artist, the how-to is the building of martial art maneuvers and styles. UMA discusses the philosophy and (to some extent) history of the martial arts, describes many current, historical and fictional martial art styles, gives selections of maneuvers and other abilities for each style, provides a wide selection of martial-arts weapons, describes how to custom-build your own martial maneuvers, and shows how to use the Powers system to build other abilities attributed to martial arts practioners in real life and in fiction.

Ninja HERO is the how-to manual for running martial art campaigns. It describes the genre conventions for using martial arts in everything from realistic street level to manga- and anime-style games, the types of characters for each, abilities that would be appropriate for each style of play, classic techniques and "bits" typical to each sub-genre and how to model them in HERO terms, provides a fair selection of NPC sample characters for all the types of game covered, and recommends other useful source materials.

For your campaign, if you want your characters to be able to choose the martial art style they like, or maybe customize their own, UMA would serve you best. If you want advice on how to fit martial arts into the kind of campaign you plan to run, I'd recommend NH.

Of course both books are excellent, and you really should buy the two of them. ;)

[Enforcer84]

Nicely put LL.

A true company man. :)

[cyst13]

The UMA is the only Hero Games book other than FrED that you absolutely must own. It's cover to cover essential information for building any type of physical fighter. All sorts of nifty stuff that you'd probably never think of doing yourself. Unfortunately, Ninja Hero is largely superfluous. It tells you the most obvious things that anybody who's seen more that a couple of Bruce Lee flicks could figure out for himself. If you like page after page of the author telling you "the characters in a Wu Xia campaign should be pretty powerful, but the guys in an anime campaign should be even more powerful", then by all means, throw away you moolah.

[tkdguy]

Actually I find the two books coplement each other well. While you don't need Ninja Hero as an absolute guide, it has several useful guides and suggestions. I like the way some martial arts styles are bought as MP or EC. I've seen it before, but I don't use them often enough to be comfortable with them. So I find those useful guides. Also keep in mind UMA is a great resource to have, but in my experience, if you're starting in the HERO system, limit the available styles to the ones listed in FREd until everyone is comfortable with the system. But if you can get both books, cool.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Originally posted by cyst13
Unfortunately, Ninja Hero is largely superfluous. It tells you the most obvious things that anybody who's seen more that a couple of Bruce Lee flicks could figure out for himself. If you like page after page of the author telling you "the characters in a Wu Xia campaign should be pretty powerful, but the guys in an anime campaign should be even more powerful", then by all means, throw away you moolah. Personally, I disagree with this characterization utterly. I think Ninja Hero is well worth buying if you want to run a martial arts-centric campaign. I considered it money well spent, and not thrown away at all. :)

[Southern Cross]

Same here.Of course,I also have the 4th Edition versions of both these books....

[cyst13]

If you guys are happy with the Ninja Hero book, that's great. As a simply caveat emptor, though, I just wanted to let whomever know that I read the book once and it hasn't left my bookshelf since. With the UMA, though, I pull it out almost everytime I make a character without ranged attacks (and sometimes even then).

[KA.]

Originally posted by cyst13
If you guys are happy with the Ninja Hero book, that's great. As a simply caveat emptor, though, I just wanted to let whomever know that I read the book once and it hasn't left my bookshelf since. With the UMA, though, I pull it out almost everytime I make a character without ranged attacks (and sometimes even then).

cyst13,
No problem there.
UMA is indeed very useful for character creation.
Ninja Hero is a good resource for someone who is trying to start up and run a Martial Arts campaign.

They are different tools for different uses.

But, just because you are a Carpenter, it is not exactly fair to say "Pipe Wrenches are Useless".
They may be useless to you, but Plumbers find them essential.:)
I don't have any sort of personal connection with Ninja Hero.
I own both it, and the UMA.
And I don't have any desire to disagree with a valid criticism of a Hero product. One of the fine traditions on this board is to rant about things that you dislike.;)
But, if you are going to tell someone to not buy a product, it would seem more fair to base that on things like:
1) The Example Characters had Rules Errors
2) The Descriptions were Unclear and Contradictory
3) Much of the Content was in direct opposition to the Hero Rules, it was like a different game system.
(Not saying this about Ninja Hero! Just examples.:))
To tell someone not to buy something just because it wasn't exactly suited to what you wanted to use it for, can seem a little heavy-handed.

Not trying to tell you what to think, just trying to explain why it might seem like people are posting just to "contradict" you.

KA.

[KA.]

jonson:
If you want a book to expand on the available Martial Arts options, as far as specific Rules, (New Maneuvers, New ways to model Martial Arts abilities, that sort of thing) the UMA is the book for you.
If you want to add more "Martial Arts Flavor" to your campaign,
(Tongs, Triads, Character Types, All the Elements of a Martial Arts movie outside the Combat) then you probably want Ninja Hero.
They are both useful, just in different ways.

KA.

[TheEmerged]

Originally posted by KA.
They are both useful, just in different ways.

I'll have to ditto that, although there is some redundant material. UMA should be the first purchase for those with limited budgets. However Ninja HERO is quite worthwhile for those who want to run a martial art campaign or prefer their campaigns to have a heavy martial art influence.

[jonson]

Thanks for the info guys.

You have all given me information to think about.

I am an "old-time" Champions player who has decided to (finally) update with the 5th edition stuff. I have alot of the 4th (and earlier) edition stuff, and updating my HERO Library is proving to be expensive.

Although I have 4th Edition Ninja Hero and UMA, I will more than likely update those editions as well -- in time.

Again, thanks.

[TheEmerged]

Originally posted by jonson
Thanks for the info guys.

You have all given me information to think about.

I am an "old-time" Champions player who has decided to (finally) update with the 5th edition stuff. I have alot of the 4th (and earlier) edition stuff, and updating my HERO Library is proving to be expensive.

Although I have 4th Edition Ninja Hero and UMA, I will more than likely update those editions as well -- in time.

Again, thanks.

You'll find the update is worth the trouble, IMO. And if you'd like a more verbose version of my opinion about the differences between 4th & 5th, follow the link below. It's work safe, ad-free, and represents the opinion of the only person I'm qualified to speak for :D

Linkage (http://theemerged.blogspot.com/HERO425.htm)