Genocide?

[Corven_Ren]

When my old Champions GM ran our campaign several years ago he used an anti-mutant group called Genocide that had well basically their own version of Sentinals is this an official Champions orginization and if so does it still exist in the Official Champions Universe?

[death tribble]

It is now called the IHA in the current incarnation. Institute of Human Affairs IIRC. Much more racist sounding.

And yes they have Minutemen.

[Monolith]

Originally posted by death tribble
It is now called the IHA in the current incarnation. Institute of Human Affairs IIRC. Much more racist sounding.

And yes they have Minutemen.
Actually it's Institute for Human Advancement. :)

[Monolith]

Originally posted by Corven_Ren
When my old Champions GM ran our campaign several years ago he used an anti-mutant group called Genocide that had well basically their own version of Sentinals is this an official Champions orginization and if so does it still exist in the Official Champions Universe?
Since it doesn't appear as though there will be any information on the IHA until at least 2006 you would probably be better off just using the 4E material in your game, if you're not inclined to make it up yourself.

In the CU the IHA is a political lobby group dealing with the threat of all superhumans, but most importantly mutants. Think of them as the Aryan Nation taken to the next level. I assume they are secretly funding a "Project Genocide" to deal with the mutant threat since the government appears to not want to deal with it directly.

[ZootSoot]

Originally posted by Monolith
Since it doesn't appear as though there will be any information on the IHA until at least 2006 you would probably be better off just using the 4E material in your game, if you're not inclined to make it up yourself.

In the CU the IHA is a political lobby group dealing with the threat of all superhumans, but most importantly mutants. Think of them as the Aryan Nation taken to the next level. I assume they are secretly funding a "Project Genocide" to deal with the mutant threat since the government appears to not want to deal with it directly.

Uh, no. The Aryan Nation is a criminal organization along the lines of a crime syndicate. It began as a prison gang with racist overtones, but really does not follow a racist agenda now being more concerned with its criminal enterprises. A better analogy would be Christian Identity.

[Lord Liaden]

Be warned that the last 4E source for info on Genocide, The Mutant File, made their operatives very powerful - even their lowest-level agents would be equivalent to Low Powered Superheroes. That book's version of the Minuteman robot would match anything this side of Dr. Destroyer.

The IHA Minuteman (written up in Champions Universe), although formidable, could be taken by a team of Standard Superheroes.

[Monolith]

Originally posted by ZootSoot
Uh, no. The Aryan Nation is a criminal organization along the lines of a crime syndicate. It began as a prison gang with racist overtones, but really does not follow a racist agenda now being more concerned with its criminal enterprises. A better analogy would be Christian Identity.
My understanding of the Aryan Nation was that it is an organized group of individuals preaching and upholding racial purity, and doing various criminal acts against those who they consider to be sub-human. So from that standpoint the IHA is basically the same as the IHA only directing their anger toward supehumans, and mutant superhumans in particular. What little information I have on the Aryan Nation all seems to indicate it's involvement in hate crimes. I have no idea about its dealings with organized crime. I was just speaking from a philosophy standpoint.

[levi]

I just wanted to chime in here and take other posters' temperature on the IHA. I for one was really glad to see Genocide get a facelift in 5th Ed. It always seemed difficult to get my head around the idea that a group of people who saw themselves as saving humanity from the Mutant Menace would form or join an organization with a name that was so horrible. I don't mean that the name was unfitting or silly, just that I think you would have a hard time recruiting people in America for something called Genocide. The name conjures up terible images from the holocaust.

Of course if the organization were staffed entirely by modern nazi sympathizers or the like, perhaps Genocide works better than the politically correct IHA.

Thoughts?

[Supreme Serpent]

Originally posted by levi
I just wanted to chime in here and take other posters' temperature on the IHA. I for one was really glad to see Genocide get a facelift in 5th Ed. It always seemed difficult to get my head around the idea that a group of people who saw themselves as saving humanity from the Mutant Menace would form or join an organization with a name that was so horrible. I don't mean that the name was unfitting or silly, just that I think you would have a hard time recruiting people in America for something called Genocide. The name conjures up terible images from the holocaust.

Of course if the organization were staffed entirely by modern nazi sympathizers or the like, perhaps Genocide works better than the politically correct IHA.

Thoughts?

I dunno. Keep in mind that they're extemists, and see the humanity/mutant issue as a zero-sum game - the more mutants there are, the less chance "real" humans will have. "Genocide" reflects their commitment to see the job through - that as long as there is one mutant existing, there is a chance of the whole problem coming up again. No half-measures or compromises allowed. "Genocide" also reflects what they fear will happen to THEM if they DON'T wipe out the mutants - normal homo sapiens will go the way of cro-magnons, neandrathals, etc. and be supplanted by homo superior.

I think that names like IHA and such work well for front groups, things to lobby the government with, fund-raise from the general public, etc. but I don't have a problem with the core, militant "we go out and fight the mutants head on" group calling itself Genocide.

[Monolith]

I always thought Genocide was a stupid name as well, but then again how many people would want to join something called DEMON or VIPER? :)

I like the direction Genocide has taken in 5E. Many people would sign up to be members in the IHA without even realizing that it has a secret 'Project Genocide" side of the organization. I'm currently using the IHA as a political hate group who works through the media to turn people's attention to the dangers of superhumans. Narrow-minded people always have a reason to hate an IHA fuels that.

My IHA has four main projects:

Project Looking Glass is involved with bringing media attention to the evil exploits of superhumans, especially mutants, through print, television, and website media.

Project America is involved with changing the Government and laws within the US to make them less superhuman friendly. This is done through lobbying, campaign donations, and even political blackmail.

Project Mankind is a scientific endeavor to prove that the mutantions in humans over the last 60 years have been caused by criminal masterminds in the hopes of changing humanity's genetic destiny.

Project Genocide is the covert militant branch of the organizations who hunts down and either captures or exterminates mutants whenever they are found.

[Mike W]

I'm of two minds on the name idea. I mean we do have socialist and communist parties in this country. They just don't call themselves such, especially the socialists because both "socialist" and "communist" are thought of as dirty words in mainstream America. And you still have the KKK around. Aryan Nation isn't exactly a politically correct name either given the fact that that was what Hitler was trying to create - although not many people would associate the term.

[BishopofB&W]

One thing I liked about the Genocide book was how it didn't paint all members with a broad brush. It even suggested stories where the PCs would get to know and befriend people in their Secret IDs and later discover they were Genocide Pawns. The point being to show that there were people in Genocide who had sincere concerns and didn't see any other group addressing them.

I'd like to see a mutant-registration lobbying group that come s from the opposite viewpoint. They could lobby from the basis of accelerating full metahuman integration into society. I think they would be far more troublesome to supers not only because of their integrationist message but because they could point out real abuses of superpowers and not be casually dismissed as well-funded bigots.

They'd need their own super-protection from both IHA and mutant supremacists. They could also serve as another group for wealthy supervillains to use to get their foes publicly ID'd.

[TheEmerged]

Yeah, I'm from the "nobody would actually call themselves Genocide publicly" school too.

[Kristopher]

I'll cast another vote for Genocide as rather unbelievable name.

[pinecone]

I always assumed that the "genocide" being refered to was the genocide of normal "god fearing" americans By the godless evil mutant threat......Just a little spin and Genocide is the "good guys" protecting citizens by any means nessisary....I called the original goverment project "Pharos" and it came to be called Genocide after going rogue and getting bad press when they absconded rather than shut down......

[assault]

Originally posted by Mike W
I'm of two minds on the name idea. I mean we do have socialist and communist parties in this country. They just don't call themselves such, especially the socialists because both "socialist" and "communist" are thought of as dirty words in mainstream America.

May I ask: who are the socialist and communist parties that don't call themselves such?

I could give you a list of socialist and communist groups in the US that do in fact use those words in the names.

---

On the main point of the thread: I agree that (Project) Genocide is probably a better name for the armed wing of an anti-mutant movement than for the movement as a whole. I'm willing to go with the IHA for that.

I'm a little disappointed by the new leadership introduced in 5E. I would rather go with the old lot, perhaps hidden behind a layer of front-people. Unfortunately rewriting the current lot as front-people would take some serious effort - more than I could be bothered with for something that doesn't matter much anyway.

[Mike W]

Living in Michigan, especially with my dad an autoworker(retired) the National Workers Party comes to mind first.

[AtomicGladiator]

It really depends on the tone of your campaign as to which name is better. IHA is a pretty bland name for a 4-color type campaign that features characters with names like "Doctor Destroyer", "Viper", "Defender", "Firewing" and so on...

The name "Genocide" fits that genre, with a more dramatic, colorful name, realism aside.

But in a more "realistic" campaign, where characters maybe dress in black jumpsuits instead of yellow spandex, the IHA name would fit better.

Me, I can't take the black jumpsuits any more seriously than the yellow spandex, and find the latter a lot more fun...but that's just me.

[TheEmerged]

Originally posted by pinecone
I always assumed that the "genocide" being refered to was the genocide of normal "god fearing" americans By the godless evil mutant threat......Just a little spin and Genocide is the "good guys" protecting citizens by any means nessisary....I called the original goverment project "Pharos" and it came to be called Genocide after going rogue and getting bad press when they absconded rather than shut down......

The thing is, the "God fearing Americans" would call themselves something like The Purifiers, Committee On Genetic Security, the American Society for Human Integrity, or something "lawful good" like that.

[Sketchpad]

Personally, I use both the IHA & Genocide ... IHA is the public branch of the organization, handling recruitment, publicity (or mudslinging) and political ends. Genocide, on the other hand, is the militant "shadow" branch that uses hi-tech, big robots and slaved mutants to hunt down the genetically impure. At the moment, they only use the big Minutemen in last case scenarios and against the heavy hitters, opting to use the Minuteman X (a smaller bot that's akin to a Boomer). Their tech level is that of Genosha's army (back when they first appeared) and none of them wear yellow ;)

[Killer Shrike]

I have the IHA doing most of their messed up stuff in distant remote 3rd world localities far from the eyes of the world media, presenting a benevolent face to the world otherwise.

They do things like run free or almost-free clinics for things like flu shots (where they also take DNA Samples for genotyping and tracking of course) and other good-will type covers that allow them to covertly identify any persons with altered genetics.

They generally bill themselves as supporters of progress, and heavily sponsor ultra tech (things that let a normal person compete with supers or extend human limits for example), strongly opposing any form of genetic tampering to include cloning, drum up grass-roots supports among the ignorant and religious fanatics, etc.

[assault]

Originally posted by Mike W
Living in Michigan, especially with my dad an autoworker(retired) the National Workers Party comes to mind first.

Oh, well, that's nothing. :)

Lots of Communist and Socialist parties have used names like that. "Labor"/"Labour" is another keyword. There's nothing hidden in names like that.

Except... when you see the term "National" in a name it often means "Nationalist", which is a keyword of an entirely different sort. I did a quick Google search which turned up a neo-Nazi outfit called the "Nationalist Workers Party".

Anyway, to get back to the topic: different types of organisations use different buzzwords. That's how they identify themselves and each other.

Clearly "Human Advancement" is a buzzword for "anti-mutant" in the CU.

We could define some others and use them instead or as well. This would allow splinters and rival sects to the IHA itself.

Maybe Genocide is a rival anti-mutant group. That would allow you to use both.

About the only problem with that would be that both have Minutemen robots! But that can be worked around. It's highly likely that they got the design from the same source. And if they have both continued to develop them their designs may have diverged...

[assault]

Originally posted by Killer Shrike
I have the IHA doing most of their messed up stuff in distant remote 3rd world localities far from the eyes of the world media, presenting a benevolent face to the world otherwise.

That's a good idea.

I once ran a scenario where a couple of mutants had manifested in an African (kind of Somali) village and had been drafted into the local warlord militia outfit. The heroes were sent to "encourage" them to join their world's equivalent of the X-Men. It didn't quite work out that way. :)

Having Genocide working offstage could help in rationalising the disproportionate presence of superbeings in developed countries.

And it would provide lots of neat political slogans for pro-mutant activists.

[Kristopher]

Isn't it printed that IHA gets the Minuteman tech from ARGENT?

[assault]

Originally posted by Kristopher
Isn't it printed that IHA gets the Minuteman tech from ARGENT?

The exact quote is "... and with some help from ARGENT begun development of powerful Minuteman combat robots...".

So he's not exactly buying them off the shelf. On the other hand the "begun development" does tend to close off the option of some other outfit also having them. :(

Still, it's just a sentence. I change more important things than this every day of the week.

[ZootSoot]

Originally posted by Monolith
My understanding of the Aryan Nation was that it is an organized group of individuals preaching and upholding racial purity, and doing various criminal acts against those who they consider to be sub-human. So from that standpoint the IHA is basically the same as the IHA only directing their anger toward supehumans, and mutant superhumans in particular. What little information I have on the Aryan Nation all seems to indicate it's involvement in hate crimes. I have no idea about its dealings with organized crime. I was just speaking from a philosophy standpoint.

Whoops! I was thinking Aryan Brotherhood not Aryan Nation, nevermind . . .

[Southern Cross]

Oh well,everybody makes mistakes....
Personally I preferred Genocide to the Institute for Human Advancement,which I think is a deliberate attempt to fool Saps (the nickname the Tomorrow People gave Homo Sapiens) into believing the organization is intended to advance humanity,when its clear to anybody with half a brain that their agenda is the complete opposite.
At least Genocide is a more honest name,plus it's a better fit for the four-color genre.
Personally,I'd have my namesake character,upon arriving in the current Hero Universe,encounter the IHA,exclaim "Oh the public arm of the Genocide organization",and have everybody start referring to the IHA as Genocide.

[BishopofB&W]

Originally posted by Sketchpad
Personally, I use both the IHA & Genocide ... IHA is the public branch of the organization, handling recruitment, publicity (or mudslinging) and political ends. Genocide, on the other hand, is the militant "shadow" branch that uses hi-tech, big robots and slaved mutants to hunt down the genetically impure. At the moment, they only use the big Minutemen in last case scenarios and against the heavy hitters, opting to use the Minuteman X (a smaller bot that's akin to a Boomer). Their tech level is that of Genosha's army (back when they first appeared) and none of them wear yellow ;)

I was thinking the same thing last night. You could have both IHA and Genocide together in the same type of symbiotic relationship as Sinn Fein and the Irish Republican Army. IHA would point to Genocide as the logical consequence of a failure to control renegade mutants and Genocide members would say IHA moves too slow and drastic measure must be taken NOW before it’s too late. The leaders of both groups, of course would work hand in glove because they’re really doing a “good cop, bad cop” routine on the entire country.


This is my expansion on my other idea for a more sympathetic organization that is still troublesome to supers.

Council for a United Society—Supports many of the same legislative agendas as IHA but has completely different goals. CUS believes that allowing mutants and other paranormals to go unregistered slows down their acceptance and full integration into society at large. Its members, some of whom have low-powered paranormal relatives, want children screened early for paranormal abilities so they can receive the guidance and training they need to control their powers and grow up to be fully-participating, productive citizens. CUS argues that mutants are the ultimate minority group and often have needs, both physical and educational, that far exceed any other group. The rivalry, if not outright hatred, between CUS and IHA is bitter, indeed. They both agree on the need to prevent and punish paranormal crime and CUS’ lobbyists are just as strident as IHA’s in their criticism of the careless use of superpowers. They sharply disagree on just about everything else. When IHA brings up the specter of future mutants enslaving the world, CUS responds that the best prevention for this is to integrate them instead of keeping them at the fringes of society. IHA dismisses this as naïve dreaming. Both groups have sympathizers in all levels of government. Law enforcement personnel in the CUS camp tend to adopt a “hope for the best, prepare for the worst” attitude.
This kind of group could be a big headache for PR-conscious heroes.

[BishopofB&W]

Originally posted by Southern Cross
Oh well,everybody makes mistakes....
Personally I preferred Genocide to the Institute for Human Advancement,which I think is a deliberate attempt to fool Saps (the nickname the Tomorrow People gave Homo Sapiens)

I loved that show! I saw an article where Thames Productions was bringing the original cast back together to do radio-style dramas about their further adventures as adults.

[Kristopher]

Originally posted by Southern Cross
Oh well,everybody makes mistakes....
Personally I preferred Genocide to the Institute for Human Advancement,which I think is a deliberate attempt to fool Saps (the nickname the Tomorrow People gave Homo Sapiens) into believing the organization is intended to advance humanity,when its clear to anybody with half a brain that their agenda is the complete opposite.
At least Genocide is a more honest name,plus it's a better fit for the four-color genre.
Personally,I'd have my namesake character,upon arriving in the current Hero Universe,encounter the IHA,exclaim "Oh the public arm of the Genocide organization",and have everybody start referring to the IHA as Genocide.

Keep in mind that we know a lot more about IHA than the general public in the CU does. They don't know about the heavily armed death squads, the Minuteman robots, or any of that junk.

[Southern Cross]

You've given me a great scenario idea-what if someone joined the IHA and upon finding out it's true purpose,decided to reveal what the IHA is REALLY up to.
The whistle-blower then decides to go to the heroes,because he's also learned that the heroes suspect the IHA,but have no real proof of its illegal activities.
The heroes now have to defend their best chance to expose the IHA from its wrath.

[freakboy6117]

especially entertaining if the informer is played as a low level anti-superhuman bigotnot "we have to wipe those mutant swine out wipe them out before they get us normal folk" but you know you know whats wrong with you people you never think about the little guy when your flying along in them fancy long johns."
but even low key bigotry would really rub the players the wrong way which always makes life more intreasting.

[BishopofB&W]

Originally posted by freakboy6117
especially entertaining if the informer is played as a low level anti-superhuman bigotnot "we have to wipe those mutant swine out wipe them out before they get us normal folk" but you know you know whats wrong with you people you never think about the little guy when your flying along in them fancy long johns."
but even low key bigotry would really rub the players the wrong way which always makes life more intreasting.

I like the idea though I wouldn't necessarily call it bigotry. To me, bigotry would be more like: "You capes think you're so much better than the rest of us. Somebody has to take you down a peg or two to show you what real life is like."

Complaining about overlooking the "little guy" could be a useful way to get your players to re-assess how they relate to non-supers and why IHA's message is so attractive.

[Chuckg]

> You've given me a great scenario idea-what if someone
> joined the IHA and upon finding out it's true
> purpose,decided to reveal what the IHA is REALLY up to.

> The whistle-blower then decides to go to the
> heroes,because he's also learned that the heroes suspect
> the IHA,but have no real proof of its illegal activities.

> The heroes now have to defend their best chance to
> expose the IHA from its wrath.

If I have anything resembling a Contact at such places, ore ven a friendly Silver Avenger, I'm going straight to the Department of Justice and getting this guy an interview with an FBI telepath, stat.

Rule #1 when trying to keep a witness from dying -- remember the objective. The objective is to keep the witness alive long enough to testify. Ergo, getting a sworn deposition from the witness into the record as fast as humanly possible is step 1 on the agenda.

*Then* you commence the frantic bodyguarding... but even if you fail, at least he died with /some/ kind of testimony already in the record.

[pinecone]

Originally posted by TheEmerged
The thing is, the "God fearing Americans" would call themselves something like The Purifiers, Committee On Genetic Security, the American Society for Human Integrity, or something "lawful good" like that. I think I was misunderstood...Genocide it self (at least at the leadership level) is not very religious at all it just uses religion as a tool. I always ran the "science council" of gGenocide as not really hating mutants at all...it just seemed like an easy "emergency" that could justify setting aside the constitution and declaring martial law, mutants are also a tool to politicize all super powers. Its hard to be a dictator when some super dude can bust into the white house and put an end to your evil ways.Later in the campain Genocide absorbed the last remnants of the 5th reich (who had infiltrated Primus and tried to run a palace revolution using the "mutant threat"...it failed misrably Primus might have hated mutants but they would not subvert the government)Genocide only took them in because of all the cool Primus tech they had stolen. This made them more generally racist and hated, but the leadership tended to be very rational. The rank and file grew to be more fanatical as recruitment became harder , except amoung fringe groups.

[Celebrin]

IMC, I replaced the name Genocide with Genesis and with that transformed the group into a religiou organization that has the same ideas as the original organization - wiping out the mutant menace. As mutants are fairly new to my campaign-world, Genesis is a small organization, but one day they will break out their robots of mutant destruction to lay waste to the foul menace...

I've renamed agents and such to make them more religious-sounding (The Flock, the Choir, Bishops, Arch-Bishops and Cardinals), but other than that I've done very little with them as yet. I think my temporary name for their robots are the Cerberus robots, but that will probbly change to more angelic-themed names (such as Nephilim or Malakim, etc)

Darren
:)

[BishopofB&W]

You could also name them something positive because that's how they would see themselves. Instead of Genocide, make them Hope for Humanity, Guardians of Order:D, or even keep their orignal name Project: Salvation

[The Mind Master]

Originally posted by Celebrin
IMC, I replaced the name Genocide with Genesis and with that transformed the group into a religiou organization that has the same ideas as the original organization - wiping out the mutant menace. As mutants are fairly new to my campaign-world, Genesis is a small organization, but one day they will break out their robots of mutant destruction to lay waste to the foul menace...

I've renamed agents and such to make them more religious-sounding (The Flock, the Choir, Bishops, Arch-Bishops and Cardinals), but other than that I've done very little with them as yet. I think my temporary name for their robots are the Cerberus robots, but that will probbly change to more angelic-themed names (such as Nephilim or Malakim, etc)

Darren
:)

This sounds a lot more interesting than the dull IHA moniker. I love your names and concepts. It keeps a nice theme to the group and makes it memorable to the players instead of just some meaninless anacronym. It also gets rid of the original Genocide's embarassing rip-off of the X-Men Hellfire Club with the White King and White Queen, etc.

[freakboy6117]

peronally i always like the marvel anti mutant grousp name

THE FRIENDS OF HUMANITY it sounds so nice
like a charitable organization bent on good works in the third world not a political hate group with armed paramilitary wing

[Southern Cross]

With friends like this who needs enemies.....