Sleep powers

[Peregrine]

I see sleep powers done as either EB, NND or Drain STUN. As an alternative, how about Mind Control, One Command ("Sleep")? After all, when we sleep at night, we're not down to 0 STUN.

[Supreme]

Other alternatives that I can see:

Transform
CHA Drain (INT?)

[mattingly]

Ego Attack is another good way. Throw on a -1/4 Lim so that it doesn't work on targets with Life Support: Never Sleeps.

[Victim]

END drains or Suppress.

[TheEmerged]

Generally, I use Mind Control with the Telepathic (+1/4) and One Command Only (-1/2). As a house rule, I allow One Command Telepathic powers to be bought +0, to make them fit in multipowers more cleanly.

Another trick worth mentioning is the "and stay down!" tactic -- generally a REC suppress bought with a continuing charge.

[mattingly]

END drains or Suppress.

The way I used to do a Sleep Spell in 4th Ed was a STUN Dispel. It's fairly cheap, and all-or-nothing. Either it puts you to sleep (exceeds your STUN) or it doesn't. And once you wake up, you're back to full STUN again.

But in 5th, you can't Dispel a Characteristic. Bummer.

[Supreme]

Originally posted by mattingly
The way I used to do a Sleep Spell in 4th Ed was a STUN Dispel. It's fairly cheap, and all-or-nothing. Either it puts you to sleep (exceeds your STUN) or it doesn't. And once you wake up, you're back to full STUN again.

But in 5th, you can't Dispel a Characteristic. Bummer.
You could still do a Transform to someone with 0 Stun and make the untransform condition stated as being woken up.

[Doug Limmer]

Originally posted by mattingly
The way I used to do a Sleep Spell in 4th Ed was a STUN Dispel. I, unfortunately, don't have a good opportunity to actually try this, but a STUN Suppress seems like a good idea to me, although you may want to add 0 END, Uncontrolled.

[MarkusDark]

You can use the lovely, icky Mentalist trick of an Ego Entangle that degrades over time.

[Derek Hiemforth]

I think Transform or Mind Control are the best ways to go. NND's, EGO Attacks, STUN Drains, etc. all lower the STUN stat, which isn't really what you're after. And some of the other proposals, like the EGO Entangle, don't necessarily include anything that justifies the target being asleep.

Overall, I think Transform is probably best. That way, you don't have to deal with Mind Control breakout rolls, either.

The way to reverse the Transform would simply be to wake the person up. Since this is such an easy and obvious way to "cure" the Transform, I might even give you a small Limitation for that if I was the GM.

To me, the hardest question is whether this would be a Major or Minor Transform. Objectively, it should probably be Minor. Changing the target into itself, but asleep, isn't that profound a change in "real life." But in game terms, it would also mean that the target might then be easily slain, making it a more Major effect.

If I was running, I'd probably rule that it was a Minor Transform, but also rule that all the normal means of waking up applied (definitely including being awoken by loud noises, combat around you, or falling down while asleep. Therefore, if you tried to put someone to sleep in the midst of combat, they'd just wake up again when they fell down. ;)

You'd get more mileage out of it if you used it more subtly...

[SkyKnight]

I don't think that mind control is a good way to do this. A mind control character can only perform actions that he could have performed anyway. If he couldn't fall asleep in 1 second during the middle of a combat if he wanted to, then he can't do it while mind controlled to either.

Personally, I like EGO attack for this sort of thing, because it's simple. For more realism, a mental entangle is probably the best way to go, but it would have to block all sense groups.

[GamePhil]

I tend to look at one more thing: who are you trying to put to sleep?

The D&D Sleep spell, for example, is trying to put out what we might call "normal", so I just use an 8d6 Stun Only EB, no Advantages (except maybe Area), All or Nothing (-1), Target Recovers All Stun Immediately Upon Regaining Consciousness (-1/2)

It's more complicated than the Transform, my other preference, but it does have the advantage of being cheap.

[Tech]

A have a villainess who can make a male fall asleep with a kiss (and a smile on his face). The sleep is defined as ordinary sleep.

13d6 NND (Def: being female), 0 End, no range, must be able to kiss opponent (no kissing the hand trick), opponent is not Stunned, opponent able to be waken to full stun.

I think that's it but I don't have the stats in front of me. The first attack is almost always x2 Stun from Surprise as the attack is evident, unless you've met her before.

[Klytus]

Originally posted by mattingly
The way I used to do a Sleep Spell in 4th Ed was a STUN Dispel. It's fairly cheap, and all-or-nothing. Either it puts you to sleep (exceeds your STUN) or it doesn't. And once you wake up, you're back to full STUN again.

But in 5th, you can't Dispel a Characteristic. Bummer.

This solution is so clean and elegant, I think I'd make an exception in my 5th Edition games.

[mattingly]

This solution is so clean and elegant, I think I'd make an exception in my 5th Edition games.

Thank you, thank you. I think I became CON-Stunned when the idea hit me one day.

[MarkusDark]

Actually, an Ego Entangle doesn't drain any stat. You just can't "Wake up" or free yourself until you break the entangle. ;)

[Derek Hiemforth]

Originally posted by Klytus
This solution is so clean and elegant, I think I'd make an exception in my 5th Edition games. Actually, you could get a similar effect and still stay "book legal" by just buying Energy Blast, defining it as Stun Only, and applying a -1 Limitation, "All Or Nothing." If you reduce their STUN to 0 or less, it works. If you don't, it does nothing.

It would be slightly cheaper than Dispel (2.5 points per 1d6 instead of 3), but you'd have to buy a couple of extra dice to overcome their ED. So it probably works out to about the same cost in the end.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Originally posted by MarkusDark
Actually, an Ego Entangle doesn't drain any stat. You just can't "Wake up" or free yourself until you break the entangle. ;) But it doesn't put you to sleep. There's nothing about being caught in an Ego Entangle that causes you to lose consciousness. You can't really just chalk it up to special effect, because unconsciousness has specific effects, and an Ego Entangle doesn't cause them. :)