Help wanted doing some modeling

[Michael Hopcroft]

I'm hoping to get a little back into HERO -- two of my other favorite systems just announced new editions this week and I fear I may not be able to get them. At least i can, in theory, get new HERO books without going bankrupt.

I don't know when Turakian Age is coming out but I would like to run a FH campaign. what i';d like to knwo is if anyone has any idea what point level I should use if I want my characters to start at the equivalent power of 10th-levle D&D 3,5 characters. I don't plan to use D&D classes, of course -- each player should be free within reasonable boundaries to create the characters they want. basically I want characters who are powerful enough to be famous or infamous and have some spectacular abilities, but not so powerful that there aren;t other badasses out there who could bring them down if they don't play smart.

I also need to model a few of the important characters in the setting that the PCs will encounter -- like the major villains whose plans they might upset, some of whom will be lower-point characters with extensive NCI and others who will be capable of kicking serious tail with weapons, magic or both.

Anyone have ideas?

P.S. Can;t wait for the HD templates to come out for fantasy Hero, although I am afraid they will be so expensive that my eyes will roll all the way out of their sockets....:mad:

[Killer Shrike]

I humbly forward my website www.killershrike.com for your consideration.

[Korvar]

I slightly less humbly second that suggestion. Fantastic resource. If only Hero Designer files for everything were available :)

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by Korvar
I slightly less humbly second that suggestion. Fantastic resource. If only Hero Designer files for everything were available :) Hey, Im just one guy ;)

[mudpyr8]

Well I'm not sure I can help you with the setting issue (since we won't release our setting until after Turakian Age, although that should be out by Origins I'm sure). You are welcome to visit our site and maybe join the playtest. You sound like a member of our target audience, and we would love your input. http://www.narosia.com

I also recommend Shrike's site. It's a great resource and he has a lot of outstanding material. A great place to start.

I would say a 10th level character is about 165 points. I consider a 1st level character 75 points, and about 10pts per level.

[Killer Shrike]

I peg 10th level 3e characters at around 260

http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/Conversion3e/Class3e/DD3e.htm


2e characters range in that zone, from 240 for Thieves up to 260 for Paladins & Rangers

http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/Conversion2e/Class2e/ADD2e.htm

I have the other clasess all within 5 points of 260 up or down.

[mudpyr8]

Shrike, what is your pt/level increment and where do you start?

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by mudpyr8
Shrike, what is your pt/level increment and where do you start? The two links above lead to charts that lay that all out. For 3e its a nice flat 15 per Character Level. Its an approximation of course as not all 3e levels of all classes are created equal, but its a good rule of thumb.

2e is a little trickier since its based on the underlying variability of the 2e classes having different XP charts.

I start characters at 50 base with a max of 75 "personal disadvantage" points, meaning disads particular to a character and not a feature of their race.

I have a house rule regarding Race Packages that is a specific deviation from the rulebook; I dont count Disads in Race Packages against the characters Disad max; instead they offset the cost of the Race Package directly.

This is probably easiest to think of as it the Race Disad total is added to the 75 point Disad total.

I grant NCM points and a smal 5 to 10 point DF for Race in these packages, so each Race Package offsets itself a minimum of 25 points.

The net effect of this is that normal humans are effectively 150 point (50 point base + 100 points in Disads) characters (with 25 points of those Disads being NCM and DF: Human from their Race Package).

This is all explained here: http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/HighFantasyHERO/racePackageNotes.shtml

One side note: 150 point characters are a bit more durable and capable than D&D 1st level characters, no doubt about it, but then 400 point elite characters are less durable than D&D 20the level characters in some cases so its not really relevant -- the two systems just have a differnt spread. I prefer staring the characters off in the 125 to 150 range because then I dont have to distort my setting to compensate for increadibly squishy "1st level characters" and incredibly unstoppable "20th level characters" all in the same paradigm. Characters fall much closer to baseline in this fashion and I can get right into running the game without having to artificially trot out endless "fodder" characters in the begining and "world-wrecking demon spawn" at the end.


The ~125-150 start up has worked well for 3 long running, 2 shorter running, and 1 still in progress campaign using my conversion material in one iteration or another, so Im happy with it.

Other tastes may vary and it's all relative anyway :D -- So long as the PCs start off as powerful in relation to everyone else in the world as the GM wishes then all is well, whether that startout point be 50 points or 5000. ;)

[mudpyr8]

Thanks for the clarification. I wrestled with the racial disads question for a long time and then finaly was satisfied with having them not valued above and beyond the standard disad pool.

The feel we are trying to go for is a grittier fantasy. Although still epic, we want the characters to feel closer to normal than not. I can't even imagine a 400 pt fantasy game.

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by mudpyr8
The feel we are trying to go for is a grittier fantasy. Although still epic, we want the characters to feel closer to normal than not. I can't even imagine a 400 pt fantasy game. We did a short campaign with a party of 4 500 point warriors. It played out much the same as a party of 4 150 point warriors. Your characters are more capable and less niche-oriented, but the effectiveness of a character is all relative to the opposition and other PCs. Raising the points just raise the "chump" bar -- there are more things which are not a threat, but there are still plenty of things that are.

[mudpyr8]

Agreed. It's just easier to whip up a 50 pt thug than to whip up a 250pt thug when you are improvising.

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by mudpyr8
Agreed. It's just easier to whip up a 50 pt thug than to whip up a 250pt thug when you are improvising. An amusing anecdote of the 500 point "legendary fighter" campaign, which featured Lethroc "Deatheye" Mur-lavore a legendary assassin (played by me), Lord Colson a displaced robber baron of the Wild Coast, Koja Kazari a totemic warrior of the far northern steppes, a half-ogre known only as "Stonebones" because he was too dumb to remember his real name :rolleyes: :D , and a Dwarf battle-rager type character with magical armor whose name escapes me at the moment -- mostly because the character wasnt interesting enough to warrant remembering his name ;).

The player of the Dwarf got caught up in trying to loophole the system and bought most of the Dwarf's abilities via his OIF armor suit.

First night actually "on the road", the Dwarf, who was out of his armor at the time to sleep, went out a distance to do his business away from the camp site and was ambushed by a patrol of 75 point orcs. One of these 75 point orcs attacks the Dwarf with his 2d6 KA sword and almost puts him to negatives (and certain ensuing death) with one hit.

Players response: "#@$^! Whats with all the 1000 point orcs running around in these woods!"

GMs response: "Uh, dude, they're only 75 points. They just didnt buy all their crap in a focus." :D

The details of the character then came out, and much mocking of the player ensued. Heh heh.