UNTIL Superpowers Database -- What Do *You* Want To See?

[Steve Long]

OK, now that the boards are back up, time to start a couple more consumer opinion threads.

Right now I'm working on The UNTIL Superpowers Database, a Champions product scheduled for later this spring. It's a book of pre-generated superpowers for use by GMs who need to whip up a character in a hurry, gamers who want to build a character without having to learn the nuts and bolts of the system right away or become "master carpenters," and so on.

The book covers a list of about four dozen common special effects (such as Air/Wind Powers, Density Alteration Powers, Light Powers, and Telekinetic Powers), listing offensive, defensive, movement, sensory, and miscellaneous powers for each. The vast majority of the powers have one or more options listed so you can customize 'em. If I have time/space, I might try to put some random generation tables and lists in the back, but that's a big "if." Mostly the book's just a big ol' list o' powers. ;)

So, my question to you: what sort of things would you like to see in a book like this?

[JohnathanChance]

I could always use more super speedster powers, I never was able to come up with good powers for that type of character

[Jeff T.]

Really, really detailed attempt at (something similar to) Captain America's shield and (something similar to) Spidey's web-shooters.

No shield-lite or web-shooter lite, but dig deep into everything they can do and somehow make it inexpensive too. :)

More later.

[Mightybec]

I'd like to see predesigned gadgets to target specific types of characters (anti-brick weapons, anti-speedster tools, anti-psyker equipment, ect...)

Mightybec

[Keneton]

Steve:

Two large changes were made between 4th and 5th that impacted several of my characters. (I know there were more than 2 changes, but I mean these two in particular).

I would like to see more examples of acceptable EC's as there are more restrictions here than prior.

I would like to see more enhanced sense powers prebuilt as these also changed dramatically. (For The Good!)

Thanks in advance.:D

[SAVeira]

Detail examples of that use of Mulipowers, EC and VPPs.

Also would like to see lots of oddball powers examples.


S.A. Veira

[Fedifensor]

I'd like to see several things:
* Ways to make up a wide variety of powers, including things that have been traditionally hard to simulate in HERO.
* Characteristic sets for character types - for example, a brick might have 60 STR, 20 DEX, 33 CON, 15 BODY, 8 INT, 11 EGO, 20 PRE, 10 COM, 20 PD, 20 ED, 4 SPD, 66 END, 60 STUN.
* A detailed discussion of how to balance characters (the Rule of X), with multiple ways of determining X for game balance. The discussion in the Champions book was too brief.
* I don't know if it fits with the general theme of the book, but I really want a comprehensive list of Psych Lims. It's often a pain to figure out how to word a specific psych lim, or figure out how many points it's worth.

[Steve Long]

Two things I forgot to add that I clearly should have:

1. There are no gadgets in this book. Gadgets make a book in and of themselves. This is a book of sample superpowers. Thus, no Captain America's shield or Spidey's webshooters. (But you can find my take on both on the FAQs page, in the "About the HERO System" FAQ.) However, you could easily take any of the powers in the book, slap the Focus Limitation on there, and voila, instant gadget.

2. There are no mystic powers in this book. Again, that's a subject worthy of a tome of its own. However, you could easily take pretty much any power in the book, change the SFX to "magic," and voila, instant mystic power.

[RDU Neil]

Yes... Hardcover... black... with a nice piece of artwork on the front that does NOT wrap around the back... so the spine is clean black, with just the title and Hero # visible.

As for content... I'll start with some reasoning.

I'm trying M&M right now... not because it is a better system, but because they made the game so appealing and user friendly. I think the same thing can be done by Hero. See, M&M starts with the basic "super power" concept... say "Ice Power" with real word descriptions of what all it can do... and only then can you, if you want, look deeply into the power and see that it is built by a combination of effects, just like Hero.

Hero does it the other way around. It gives a bunch of generic effects, with very little flavor to them, from which an EXPERIENCED player can build all kinds of "super powers." This is fine... except that it lacks the "Zap" "Pow" "Bing" for new players of simply going... "I want Ice Power... oh, here they are on Pg. such and such..." scribble down simple cost on character sheet... done.

It can work in Hero this way. You should have simple, half page, real language description of powers labled things like "Ice Powers" "Time Powers" "Speed Powers" etc. Give flat costs like 57 pts for "Basic Ice Powers" with simple description, so people can plug and play. THEN, in the back, linked by a footnote, have the actual points and powers in Champions terms... since Ice Powers would likely be a Multi-power, with five or six slots... the total of which comes to 57 pts. or whatever.

There you have clear plug-n-play powers to introduce new players, but all the detailed rules are there... in back... for them to explore as they increase their knowledge.

Show those M&M types that Hero can be just as user friendly by doing some work for them. Make their first glance at a Hero Product a flavorful, interesting and engaging one, so they WANT to play Hero. The rules are in place... now I'd suggest moving away from text heavy, rules laden, minutia crunching... and write for new Hero players who want to jump in and just go.

[allen]

I'd really like some well-built Detects... especially, I'd like to see what is essentially the same Detect built at several levels of "discrimination".

For instance:

This Detect allows the PC to sense an metal.

This Detect allows the PC to sense an metal through walls.

This Detect allows the PC to sense an metal through walls, and tell what type of metal it is.

This Detect allows the PC to sense metal through walls, tell what type of metal it is, and the materials used in its manufacture.

This Detect allows the PC to sense metal through walls, tell what type of metal it is, the materials used in its manufacture, and the precise amounts of those materials.

I'd also like to see some descrip. of the special effects. I mean if a Detect is "attached" to a Sense Group or else has a Focus: Monitor, it's obvious enough. But if not, things get kind of vague for me. For instance, with the Detect Metal -- if it's defined as "not a Sense Group", then how precisely does it "look" to the character, or how does he "perceive" it exactly. The description of Tesseract's hyperperception in CKC is a good example of what I'm asking for.

I don't know, maybe it's some weird gap in my HERO system understanding, but Enhanced Senses make me tear my hair out...

[Michael Hopcroft]

I'd like to see:

* What a quiver of super-arrows or a bandolier of super-bullets is likely to be like. And no, no arrows with boxing gloves at their heads!

* A phaser. Don't call it a phaser, of course, but I'd really like to see something that'll let me build a Starfleet officer trapped in an alternative 20th century where superpowers are real and he has to rely on his Starfleet-issue equipment. Basically a hand weapon with three settings -- stun, kill and disintegrate.

* Disintegration as a superpower. THAT would be nasty.

* A versatile laser vision/laser type power that can be used not only as an attack but also for welding metal, melting ice entangles, boiling water, etc.

* A cartomancy VPP in which the powers you can use are controlled by a deck of Tarot cards or something similar. If you don't have the cards handy, you can;t use the power.

* A good example of an Exorcism power. You can drive demons and ghosts out of their unwilling victims or send them back to their home planes.

* The ability to implant subliminal messages in things like songs and films that aren't triggered until days later, but which either subtly alter the victims' perceptions or force them to do things they wouldn;t otherwise do.

* Timelord-style regeneration. When you are on the brink of death this brings you back almost instantly, but with a new face, a new body and some unexpected changes in personality. You could even (if you rolled badly) pick up some unwanted Psych Lims in the process.

* The power to make people fall asleep -- useful for disposing of mooks and guards, but probably not strong enough to make a major villain zonk out.

* The power to be rooted to one spot and be immovable, or alternatively the power to meet and barrier concievable and plow through it unhindered. (Imagine one character having both these powers!)

* The ability to store an incredible amount of air in your lungs and, when you blow it out, simultaneously chill and knock down your adversaries.

* The ability to absorb all the toxins in a room so that nobody else is affect by them. Hopefully you are immune yourself....

* The ability to know EXACTLY where you are at all times.

[Acroyear]

I think it would be useful for newer players to have a bunch of more standard powers like the Torch's Nova Flame or Sandman's "sandy body" that aren't the plain ol' "Flame Blast: 10d6 EB" and "desolid" but work-ups of good ways to simulate things with the modifiers. The energy build up to a big blast and the tk/grab damage shield thing might not be too obvious to many people. Sort of a showcase of how those modifiers can be applied to straight powers to make something totally new.

I also think it should include a decent number of "odd" powers. For example: Tendril has the ability to project whip-like limbs from his wrists. A lot more can be done with that than just stretching - like various grab bonuses due to leverage or being able to wrap up more limbs along the lines of extra strength for grab maneuvers (like grab & control), NND choke holds or Flashes (covers up the eyes) etc. Another example might be the "goo body" guys who can be splatted and then pull themselves together over time without really suffering ill effects from being in pieces... or who can send puddles of themselves limping away to reform and fight another day.

The hard part, of course, is thinking up these more unusual abilities. I think that would make it more useful to the experienced player, too. I'll be honest here and say I don't see a whole lot of personal usefulness in this particular book, but I think if there is a balance of simple and advanced concepts it will be attractive to the widest possible audience.

While "web shooters" might best fit a gadgets book, the web powers idea could still fit here (eg: movie version of Spider Man). Of course, you have to save some stuff for a gadgets book, I guess (handcuffs to lightsabers to Judge Dredd lawgivers).

It might be a good place to discuss older themes like "mystery powers" and provide more examples of/expand on SFX alterations to mechanics due to environment (like lightning bolts or ice blasts in the water) as there was a lot of call for such a thing before.

The Powerpoint/Haymaker articles might be a good example of expanding on concepts like growth and such, too. I know I found those articles to be lots of fun once upon a time.

[Hermit]

Hmmm, would it be possible to put in some write ups for frequently debated powers in these boards?
Two Examples:
I notice "Time powers" (Freezing folks in time, etc) come up a lot.
The "Jericho effect" where one physically enters another body to borrow it.


The "common special effects" is definitely the way to go, but some of the tricky ones could sure make a begining GM's workload easier and spare him or her some headaches. :)

[Patriot]

As long as it has more details to particular powers I'd get it.

[FeralWhippet]

I would like to see the shape change power fleshed out. The changes seemed to be fairly controversial (going by the debate in one of the topics on the old boards).

[Enforcer84]

I would like to see some nice energy control powers. Pyrokinisis, Electrokinisis, Cyberkinetics, Light control, Radiation control...
a few nice brick tricks, perhaps some Martial arts powers or "insect" abilities. Mostly, though I need energy type powers as my Blasters often look identical save for the special effect.
perhaps some looks at unusal powers, such as those posessed by Bouncing Boy, or Doug Ramsey, or even how to do a nice Rogue-like power absorbtion.

also, it would be nice to se a power progression section that gives innovative ways to make our abilities more powerful than by just adding a d6 or Armor Piercing.

[winterhawk]

Power examples that mimic popular comics charaters (Superman's heat vision as a MP: EB, welding, brain surgery in conjunction with X-Ray Vision to Jack Hawksmoore's ability to pull a city around him and use it like battle armor).

And the Random Generator! (time permitting)...sometimes being able to do what you wahtever you want makes you yearn for a random character.

[Jerry A!]

Hmm. This is a tough one. I'd break it down into categories (probably relating to the archetypes).

For instance a section on elemental powers. Probably with a general framework, and add-on packages for various additions and specials based on specific types of elemental powers (earth, water, etc...).

Powers for bricks. Regeneration packages, different types of "iron skin".

Someone else has already mention speedsters.

A slew of "heroic" mental powers (different from the psionics of Star Hero).

And examples of building and scaling a power. Show how a character can plan out additions once character points are gained. Think of it as packaged, planned growth.

Maybe a section on sample powers/levels through the various ages of comics (eg typical gold/silver/modern age, etc...)?

[Syberdwarf2]

Originally posted by Fedifensor
I'd like to see several things:
* Ways to make up a wide variety of powers, including things that have been traditionally hard to simulate in HERO.
* Characteristic sets for character types - for example, a brick might have 60 STR, 20 DEX, 33 CON, 15 BODY, 8 INT, 11 EGO, 20 PRE, 10 COM, 20 PD, 20 ED, 4 SPD, 66 END, 60 STUN.
* A detailed discussion of how to balance characters (the Rule of X), with multiple ways of determining X for game balance. The discussion in the Champions book was too brief.
* I don't know if it fits with the general theme of the book, but I really want a comprehensive list of Psych Lims. It's often a pain to figure out how to word a specific psych lim, or figure out how many points it's worth.

In addition to/ or instead of, character archtype templates, how about a more drawn out version of the "Character Ability Guidelines Table"? To wit, Jane Doe wants to build a Brick, she looks up in the UNTIL database and finds a description of RANGES for the various archetypes and powers (the average Energy Blast registers on the (???) scale between X and Y).

Also, since UNTIL is a (non-US of course) government organization, you may want to try and go for the governmrnt 'field manual' feel. Pick up any Army training manual (e.g. "FM-60-30") to see what I mean.

[Jhamin]

I would like to see some commentary on the various approaches you can take with a special effect, and not just in the "does this power have AP or not" vein. In my opinion there is too much of a tendency to say "if I'm in a fight I need an EB, so how can I justify it?".
It seems like this is a good oppertunity to some up with alternate power writeups that allow for use in combat without falling back on EB, HA, KA, RKA, Armor, & FF.

There is a big difference between somebody like Deadweight from "Enemies of SanAngelo" and Gravitar from CKC, not just in power level but in approach. They both have gravity but Deadweight manifests his as a really nasty gravity field that he has learned to use, while Gravitar has a more standard array of attacks and defenses. Both are valid, but you end up with two very different characters with the same special effect.

[TechnoViking]

1. Energy Construct Power: I.E. Green Latern, Jade, Doctor Spectrum, Starman. Are these powers a giant VPPs or more.

2. A really good example of a element transmuter power I.E. Firestorm, Element Lad.

3. Some good Time Power Examples.

4. Some good examples of the Power Skill and Power Tricks. "Torch, can you spot weld the machine for me?" Fuzing sand to glass. etc... I would love to see a large section on this. Would help beginners flesh out their characters.

Mike

[Killer Shrike]

Hidey ho. Glad to see the new boards up and running....


Ok, as to what I would like to see in the product in question:

Does anyone remember the Ultimate Powers Book? The supplement for the old Marvel Superheroes Advanced game (the FASERIP version, not the SAGA version -- you kids and your damn card games ;) )?

Well, I do.

The power write ups themselves were kind of arbitrary, but I always thought it took a decent tack as far as organization and breadth of scope.

Perhaps something similar to that, grouping powers by special effect.

As far as layout goes, in the interests of furthering the 'database' schtick, perhaps each individual power could be organized into a data-card format, including the name of a character exhibiting each particular power (ie, the superhuman who has that particular power whom UNTIL observed/analyzed).

Also, anyone remember the old Street Samurai Catalog? For old 1st edition Shadowrun? Some of the 'merchandise' presented in that book had tagline comments by various 'street samurai' giving thier opinion of the usefulness/quality of the item, and occasionally anecdotal testimonials/razing.

Perhaps something along those lines would be cool, with some super powers having 'field notes' entered by observing UNTIL agents, scientists, and what not commenting 'in character' on the power construct.


I think the most important thing for this product however is, as others have mentioned above, to make sure it can serve as an abstraction layer for players/potential players that dont want to get into the crunchy bits of the system.

In this vein, I think its important to ensure that advancement is covered as well, so that if a player picks "Hyper-speed Punch" at X pts for Y base effect, translated into English

Hyper-speed Punch/Kick: You are able to launch a flurry of blows at high speed. Strike an opponent in close combat up to 5 times for STR + XD6 damage.

Cost: Z points
Effect: (HA xd6, Autofire x5)

Advancement:

Precision Timing As control improves you are able to strike with greater precision, hitting opponents in less protected areas and pressure points. Opponents only apply half of thier defenses vs your attacks unless their armor is unusually sturdy.

Cost: Z+A points
Effect: (HA xd6, Autofire x5, AP)

Punishing Blows As control improves you are able to strike with greater force, using velocity as a weapon. You now strike opponents in close combat up to 5 times for STR + XXD6 damage.

Cost: Z+A+B points
Effect: (HA xxd6, Autofire x5, AP)


etc etc etc

In other words, give systems-lite types a nice little predefined progression path for thier preconstructed powers.

Anyhoo, just some ideas.

[Steve Long]

I notice "Time powers" (Freezing folks in time, etc) come up a lot.

The book does have a section of Time Powers. It won't have Time Stop or Time Manipulation, though; those take up too much page space. For my (detailed!) take on both, you can read Digital Hero 8 and 9, respectively. ;)

The "Jericho effect" where one physically enters another body to borrow it.

Already taken care of. A character in Millennium City has a similar ability, and I'm planning to put it in USPD as well.

I would like to see the shape change power fleshed out.

Just to be clear, this isn't a book of rules. There are a few new Limitations in sidebars, and of course unusual powers comes with whatever "gamespeak" explanation is necessary to explain them, but it's not an exploration of the rules per se. There will be quite a few powers built with Shape Shift, but there won't be any explication of the Shape Shift rules just for the sake of explaining 'em -- any explanation will be in the context of the powers created.

in the interests of furthering the 'database' schtick

Actually we don't really have any interest in that, at least as far as the write-ups go. That would just interfere with peoples' ability to use the book, so I keep the schtick to the introduction. However, we are going to have little "flavor bits" quoting from UNTIL field notes, reports, and such to explain the illustrations. That'll be the last part of the book I write, after we get the layout done. Should be fun. ;)

In other words, give systems-lite types a nice little predefined progression path for thier preconstructed powers.

That's pretty much what we're doing, since one of the reasons to do the book is to make it easier for non-system-types to use the system. Each power comes with a capsule description -- basic effect, target, duration, range, END, etc. -- followed by a text description, followed last by the actual game writeup of the power. Then there's a section called "Options" that offers customization tips -- make it stronger, make it weaker, add this Advantage for this effect, apply this Limitation to restrict it thusly, substitute this power instead to get this other effect, and so on. Some of the options are pretty simple, some are more complex. I'm trying to come up with a reasonable mix of "standard" and "unusual" powers.

[Tamashii2000]

Examples of how to use the "Power skill" with a variety of powers.....

As a GM its one of the hardest things I have found to deal with.

[Wombatman]

"There you have clear plug-n-play powers to introduce new players, but all the detailed rules are there... in back... for them to explore as they increase their knowledge."

I am in agreement with RDU Neil...plug-n-play is something that HERO needs. I would like a supplement that will help my "non HERO" friends to quickly jump in and play an introductory game without taking a lot of prep time on their characters. Not that they won't want to take the time later to create the "perfect" character, but getting them started is the tough part.

[Talon]

I think RDU Neil has it spot on. What this book really needs is a total focus on the "user experience". Forget past traditions for Hero books; this needs to be designed from the ground up so that people new to Hero can simply and easily pick a set of powers and create a character. I think if you keep that principle in mind, it will be hard to go wrong.

[Herolover]

I think the Champions book made a great start on this in their random character generation area.

I like the idea of picking a character type.
Then rolling or picking powers/skills/etc that go with that character type. Then of course you could take a little from two or three types to get a really weird character.

All you need to do is come up with a bunch of character types. Come up with all the powers for the character types their skills etc. Of course we expect you to maintain your board presence, email presence, editing, and finish Fantasy HERO while you do this:)

An example of this is...well, another "powers" book from another, now defunct, system.

[MisterVimes]

Things I'd love to see:

1) Good ways to do 'Expert' Characters that literally have access to every skill.
2) Mimics like the absorbing man and the Super-adaptoid
3) Clearly defined Elemental Control examples (with guideline for what is and is not acceptable)

[RDU Neil]

Originally posted by Geoff Speare
I think RDU Neil has it spot on. What this book really needs is a total focus on the "user experience". Forget past traditions for Hero books; this needs to be designed from the ground up so that people new to Hero can simply and easily pick a set of powers and create a character. I think if you keep that principle in mind, it will be hard to go wrong.

Thanks Geoff... and Wombatman... I'm glad a couple of folks agree with me.:)

A couple of posts ahead of yours, Steve does describe the basic layout of the book, and it sounds like it will do some of what we are talking about, here. A basic description of what the powers do... gradually moving into the rules heavy legalese of the "system." This could work, as long as the layout is clear and not too text heavy.;)

If beginning players can look at one small area, read a description and a flat point cost... boom... ready to go... then YAY! :D

[Grymlynn]

Originally posted by RDU Neil
If beginning players can look at one small area, read a description and a flat point cost... boom... ready to go... then YAY! :D [/B]

This is exactly what I think you should be after. If you manage this, you've done right.

[RDU Neil]

This is off the top of my head, at work, without reference... but I think it is a good example of what can be helpful in a "powers book" for new players.

Ice Powers: With these powers, your character can project a solid ice ram, freeze a target in a block of ice, create a wall or sheet of ice, move quickly by projecting a thin film of ice to slide upon, and project razor sharp shards of ice in a spray.

The Ice Ram does 10d6 normal damage vs. physical defensese, at a range of up to 500 meters.
The ice block keeps a target from moving, and only if they can use their STR to break the 5 Defense/5 Body block, can they get out... or other characters can try to break it with their powers. The wall is the same... 5 Defense/5 Body.
The ice sheet adds 10" of ground movement with the ability to take up to 4 other people with you.
The ice shards do 1 and 1/2d6 Killing damage emanating in a cone spray from the characters position, to a total of 20 meters wide, at a distance of 20 meters from the character.

Then print the Multi-power that looks something like...

50 pts MP Ice Powers
-- 10d6EB -- Ice Rame
-- 5d6 Entangle -- Ice Block/Wall
-- +10" Running, Usable By others -- Ice Slide
-- 1 1/2d6RKA, Cone AE, No Range -- Shard Spray


Again, this is rough... but I think it gets the idea across for new players.

[Tom McCarthy]

Well, first up, I've got to say I was very impressed by Garry Morgan's article in Digital Hero #7. I would be very impressed if you could give other powers a similar depth of coverage.

Echoing some of the above, some interesting topics:

- Transmutation; what suite of powers is appropriate ? (Entangle, NND, transform, object creation, change environment, etc.)
- Time manipulation
- Superspeedster, including ways to attack multiple targets while maintaining DCV, and disadvantages
- Possession (like Jericho of the Titans) (I'm only part way through MC manuscript, so I'll see soon enough)
- psychic immortality, where a spirit or non-corporeal entity can exist after the destruction of the physical body (androids who reboot, spirits animating corpses, etc.)
- Object animation
- Long-term hypnosis and post-hypnotic effects (because the time chart makes it easy to shake the effect before it occurs)
- Duplication tricks
- Green Lantern power ring tricks; energy constructs as TK, force field, force wall, LS, summoning, EB, etc.
- Instant reincarnation; upon the character's death, another character appears
- Five who summon one; like the classic Forever People who could switch the five of themselves for one higher powered champion
- Shrinking things as an attack
- Shrinking as a way to bypass barriers
- Attacks that don't miss
- Attacks that track and follow (probably summon like Star Hero missiles)
- Wishes (probably EDM to the universe where the wish is true)
- Invulnerability to a single SFX

I wouldn't mind seeing magnetics written up with some more of the non-combat applications.

Particularly important might be guidelines for what might be appropriate applications of a SFX for Power skill rolls.

[berry04]

Lots of good ideas.

I would like to see some examples of Disadvantages as well - particularly those related to a given special effect. Common (or not so common) Susceptabilities, Vulnerabilities, and Physical Limitations would seem appropriate to an Until Report.

It might also be useful to have a offical UN statistics report on the frequency of a given power/special effect in the world. Something useful for determining whether a given effect is commone, uncommon, or very common. Of course, assigning these vaules should vary from campaign to campaign, but it would be a useful starting point for beginners.

[MisterD]

Until must have come across many theives, villiand and heroes that use 'UTILITY BELTS' How about a listing of gadgets and a Street level and Standard level versions of the items?

[MisterD]

The latest issue of Digital Hero has a article on Developing power frameworks with special efect.

There is a bit on the special effect and the principal behind it.

Then there is a sample Multipower (Game world mechanics) followed by a game world explanation of how they work/affect the real world.)

I vote on organizing the book like the article.

[JohnTaber]

Hi Steve,

I am starting a new campaign based on a Champions campaign that has not been run since 1984 and last night was our character creation meeting. I always have one of these so people can share ideas and ask campaign questions and such. This time I have one complete Hero newbie, and three Hero 4th edition vets. The interesting thing is that the vets had NOT seen FREd. For most of them this was the first look at it. I could go into their comments but that is another post. Anyway...some of my comments are based on last nights meeting and dealing with my players.

Request #1 - Scaled - It might be cool if the powers were built so that the totals could be easily fit into other standard frameworks (i.e. EC/Multipwer/VPP). Maybe you have each power have three "power settings"? This would tweak the active points to various set levels. Maybe...45, 60, and 75 or something like that. The idea is to make it easy for a laymen to throw a bunch of stuff into their framework. Our rookie and even one of the pros had a tough time getting this worked out. This might have simplified things.

Request #2 - Indexing - I'm not sure how it could be done but you might want to index the examples in several ways. Maybe by offense/defense/other, and by power used, and by special effect? The various entries need to be easily found.

That's it.

Bummed that I can't make DunDraCon this year but my colicky 3 month old is a bit too much to handle right now so I'm gonna give the wife a break since she is letting me game during a weeknight. ;)

Say hi to Derek and Keith for me! :)

[Allensh]

Here's what I think you should do for the Big Book O' Powers:

1.) Go to Heroplay and download the PDF version of the Marvel Super Heroes Ultimate Powers Book. (it has all the corrections in it and has the approval of the author. or you can ask him for a copy on CD in step 2).

2.) go to http://www.classicmarvel.com/phorum/ and contact David E. Martin, creator of above work, and get him in on the project.

3. ) Translate said powers from said book into Hero terms, each with three levels: Low (say, 250 point heroes), standard (scaled for 350 point heroes) and High-Powered (500 pts. plus). Many of those powers will likely have to be done in Frameworks but that's ok.

While Marvel had it's problems and was in no way superior to Hero, the UPB remains to this day THE reference work on comic-book style superpowers. You could do far worse than to just do a Champions version.

My understanding about this book (and what I am hoping it will be) is a shopping list of pre-made powers for people who don't want to take the time to construct them from scratch. while it will obviously provide examples of how these powers are built, it should not be primarily oriented toward that function, although some "designer's notes" for the more complex powers might be in order.

Allen

[MisterVimes]

Originally posted by Allensh
While Marvel had it's problems and was in no way superior to Hero, the UPB remains to this day THE reference work on comic-book style superpowers. You could do far worse than to just do a Champions version.

My understanding about this book (and what I am hoping it will be) is a shopping list of pre-made powers for people who don't want to take the time to construct them from scratch. while it will obviously provide examples of how these powers are built, it should not be primarily oriented toward that function, although some "designer's notes" for the more complex powers might be in order.

I concur completely. The UPB was the best listing of Powers I have ever seen. I use it to this day for random character generation and then convert to HERO.

[SAVeira]

Originally posted by MisterVimes
I concur completely. The UPB was the best listing of Powers I have ever seen. I use it to this day for random character generation and then convert to HERO.

No kidding. I love that book, always a great source of ideas for years.


S.A.Veira

[tiger]

Where do you find this UPB? I don't see it on herosphere

[misterdeath]

Originally posted by tiger
Where do you find this UPB? I don't see it on herosphere

UPB is a MSH book. http://www.pen-paper.net/rpgdb.php?op=showbook&bookid=2064 if you want to see a copy.

If you want a .pdf http://www.heroplay.com/features/rules/marvel.php

Near as I know, the .pdf's are posted with permission of the copyright holders, FWIW.

Amazing book. Well worth having just to look at.

D

[Killer Shrike]

Heh...glad to see some people _do_ still remember the Ultimate Powers Book.


I originally got the UPB in what, 1990 or so? Earlier? Whenever it came out. Somebody boosted my copy of it, and Ive been looking for a replacement ever since. I got a copy of the web version about a year ago or so, and it was a happy day. The web version also contains the errata & additions from 2 Dragon Magazine articles.

MSHA with the UPB was a fun fun fun game, and was the gateway game that brought me into Champions/HERO System as a matter of fact. Something along those lines would be very solid for the Until product.

It is a very cool resource and a neat thing to just read on occasion and, as I stated in my previous post on this subject, I personally think that HEROs could do far worse than to adapt some of the organizational precepts of the UPB.


However, while Im sure Steve is aware of the book Im also fairly sure that he doesnt want to intimate any undue influence from any book or Intellectual Property published/owned by another game company. I've noticed that he seems to be fairly circumspect about not mentioning other companies products directly in general, which is probably a very intelligent move on his part for a variety of reasons.

With that in mind, I find it unlikely that Steve would contact David E Martin and bring him in to work on a HEROs book out of the blue, but it would be a very cool turn of events if he did ;)

[Allensh]

Sorry about the incorrect reference there..I meant Heroplay.

I don't expect Steve to copy the UPB, of course, but Mr. Martin did a considerable amount of research on powers and such and that knowledge might be useful. The folks who did the short-lived DC Universe game for West End must have thought so...their Directive on Superpowers book was co-written by David Martin and is essentially the UPB rewritten for the DC game (with approproate changes, of course). if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Allen

[MarkusDark]

If this is about building characters and such, I would suggest something along the lines of a 'plug and play' outline. Give set variables to create certain 'archetype' characters.

For example:
350 point characters
Energy Projector:
3 - 60 point attacks in a Multipower
1 - 30 point defence

Don't know if this is making sense or not. Ideally, I loved a random character generator a friend of mine made for 4th edition rules based upon the archetypes. Something like that would be killer for cranking out characters.

[Steve Long]

Thanx for all the suggestions, guys. Keep 'em comin'.

A few clarifications/responses/etc.:

As I've said before, there'll be no gadgets. Please stop askin' for 'em.

I'm vaguely familiar with the Marvel RPG book you're discussing, though I've never read it cover to cover. I don't have any intention of contacting anyone and asking him to participate in the creation of the USPD, for a whole bunch o' reasons.

While the book is going to have some powers that, because of their various aspects, are built as Multipowers or other Power Frameworks, it's not going to have pre-built Frameworks for people. It's got powers, which you can easily assemble into whatever Frameworks you want. Organizing them into Frameworks in advance would waste page space and, in some ways, diminish the value of the book, IMO.

[Storn]

Originally posted by Steve Long
Thanx for all the suggestions, guys. Keep 'em comin'.

While the book is going to have some powers that, because of their various aspects, are built as Multipowers or other Power Frameworks, it's not going to have pre-built Frameworks for people. It's got powers, which you can easily assemble into whatever Frameworks you want. Organizing them into Frameworks in advance would waste page space and, in some ways, diminish the value of the book, IMO.


Not to be a contrarian, Steve, I think showing frameworks is NOT a waste of space, and very important.

The reason, I think this should be the book to give to beginning Hero players who are playing superheroes. A Framework(s) showing a Fire projecting character, that they can take, slap down on their character sheet and be ready to play in 10 minutes is PRECISELY what this book should aim for. So a beginning player can flip thru the book and see Fire, Ice, Brick tricks, Magneto-wannabes, Flash-clones, Wolverine-ripoffs etc. etc.

And as for a waste of space, c'mon, its a book about Powers (which you don't have to write out like FRED), not even gadgets (which I think you might want to rethink, it won't prevent an Ultimate Gadget book, these gadgets like Cap's Shield, spidey's webs stuff is all superheroes, Ultimate Gadget is cross-genre),... you should have tons of pages to work something like this out. If you don't, then you are being too long-winded. And this, of all the books we've put out, should NOT be over-explained. That is what FRED is for. You do not have to go into every advantage, disadvantage computation. Taht is what FRED is for. This is a book of one giant checklist.

Value? If we can do as much of the WORK for a new player (or harried-by-life veteran Hero player) AS POSSIBLE, then it will have Value. To present 500 powers and then say to a new player: "Well, to make this cost efficient, you should use a multipower and a Elemental Control.. go to it, you are on your own. Go consult FRED. " is mean <g>. Nor is it good marketing. Right now, Hero needs a "gateway" product. FRED ain't it. Champions ain't it. This really could be. Make it so and it will be a "must have" for every Champions group... veteran or beginner.

[Talon]

Even if Frameworks aren't shown, I think it would be good to keep the powers at fixed Active Point levels so that they are easy to add to Frameworks. I would suggest four levels: Low (40 points), Medium (60 points), High (80 points), and Special (above 80, mostly for special-case powers).

I agree with Storn that it would be good to show at least a couple examples of how to use Frameworks; of course, since the power descriptions are going to be elsewhere, this shouldn't need to be more than a page of:

Sample EC: Fire Powers (Medium power level)
24 EC, 60 point powers, only in hero ID
24 Flame Blast (page ???)
24 Flame Shield (page ???)
24 Flame Walk (page ???)

[Tom McCarthy]

A few more ideas rolled through my head.

Compel the Truth - Like Wonder Woman's lasso or some commanding voice techniques, there are powers which force people to answer and answer truthfully. I'm not sure if you want non-telepathic Mind Control or non-telepathic Telepathy.

Luck and Hexes - Making yourself lucky is easy. Making others unlucky may be harder to simulate, so a coupel fo examples may be valuable.

EMP - Not so much because it's hard to write up, but because it's a power which multiple SFX may justify; magnetism or nuclear fission, for example.

Density - I'd like to see a few physical benchmarks in the density increase article. How dense is steel relative to flesh ? How about diamonds ? Gold, lead, iron, rock/magma, ice, wood, clay and glass may all be worth mentioning, too. Some people may need a gentle reminder than many materials just aren't as dense as you'd think (I think facet from European Enemies was way too dense). At teh other extreme, at what density does a human begin to have a noticeable gravitational field, and at what mass does he begin to have an event horizon (maybe Jim Cambias knows that one) ?

Earth manipulation - not a tough one to write up, but a genre bit worth a few paragraphs

[OneSmallGod]

I'd take it as a favor if each power had a "Combat Readout" listing it's average effect. That was the only way I found to accurately explain stuff to several newbie players.

Example: An 8d6 Energy Blast. What does it do? The Average hit will do 28 Stun & 8 Body. Against an Unprotected Normal, you can expect to knock him (lightly) unconscious in one shot. Against an opponent with Medium Protection (Body Armour), you can expect to Ring His Bell (CON-Stun him). One good shot or two average hits will knock him unconscious. A Heavily-Protected character (Force Fields, etc) may not even feel this attack...

[JmOz]

One thing I think is all but required is a message in the front of the book, in larger type, bolded, with fireworks, and anything else needed to get people's attention is a disclaimer saying that while these powers are one way to do things the true strength of the hero system is that there are many ways to reach the same effect.

Call me a titans freak, but a few of the powers I would like to see are as folows:

The ability to send out a energyform/soulself
The Jerico Effect (I know its covered already)
Ability to compel the truth

A section on Astral travel (that may be touching to much on Magical).

A section on Mental powers

A section on common Animal powers, things like controlling them, speaking with them, mimicing there powers, shape shifting to ANY animal, etc

A section on Enhanced senses, especialy different forms of detects

Shadow Control (aka Darkforce manipulation from Marvel, think Obsidian from DC Comics or Cloak from Marvel)

If I think of anything eles i will post it]

[RDU Neil]

Originally posted by Tom McCarthy

EMP - Not so much because it's hard to write up, but because it's a power which multiple SFX may justify; magnetism or nuclear fission, for example.

Earth manipulation - not a tough one to write up, but a genre bit worth a few paragraphs

Tom,
First off, love your mention of Density benchmarks. Great idea.

I wanted, though, to comment on what you stated above about EMP and Earth Manipulation. While, from a 20 year plus veteran of Champions, I have no problem figuring out how to create these powers... I really think we have to look at things from a newbie perspective.

A newbie, who has read the Titans, and wants to create a Terra clone character, will open FReD or another book, looking for "Earth Powers" or something similar, so they can build their character.

They won't find it.

Hero gives generic powers effects, and you build the "superpower" you want out of them. For some of us, this has always been intuitive and cool as hell... but after a long time, I think we all need to admit that this is NOT how the majority of gamers view Hero. :(

More than the math issues, more than the munchkinism that Hero allows... it is the lack of FLAVOR and lack of FAMILIARITY that I think keeps most folks from Hero.

Newbies don't start the game thinking, "I want to have a 75 active point multi-power, utilizing seven ultra slots, and 3 variable slot, with nine attack powers and two movement powers, with up to eleven different power advantages and seven power limitations, which, through description and role playing, will simulate manipulation of soil and rock similar to that displayed in comic books I've read."

(This is how I think... after so long with the system... and that's fine, but it's not how MOST people think.)

No... what they think is, "I want earth powers."

We have to give them "Earth powers." They need a full page with FLAVORFUL description, and simple, flat point costs, that they can go, "Oh... look... Earth Powers. 93 Points... scribble, scribble... ok cool... I've got Earth powers." Done.

The system is there... FReD has all the rules, supplements have all the advice... now we need to give them books that have done all the work... even work vets like us think is common and easy. ESPECIALLY the work vets like us think is common and easy.

If the Powers Sourcebook can do this... then it will succeed. If it doesn't, then it will not reach a new audience, it will not allow a GENTLE introduction to a very complex game. It will fail as a product.

Think of it this way. If I want to learn tennis, I pick up a raquet and ball, and with some guidance, I learn how to swing and hit, and move my feet... I am NOT handed a physics text on action/reaction, compression, force and velocity and formulas that abstract the concept of playing tennis.

That is what Hero has, for too long, expected players to do. FReD is a text book, explaining the underlying physics of a game, rather than the game itself. We all know this. That was the intent... but at some point, they have to publish the GAME itself. The players have to pick up the raquet and ball, and swing a few times.

This Powers book needs to be the raquet and ball of Hero. Something the player can pick up and swing with... even if they don't do a good job of it, at first. A veteran player will serve an ace, first time out of the bag with this book... new players will put it in the net... but ALL players are able to easily take a swing... which has not been the case for Hero in the past.

IMO, this kind of supplement really needs to be the focus NOW... or Hero will fail to catch on, and only us old farts will be sticking around to watch it fade away, once again.

[Storn]

Originally posted by RDU Neil


Think of it this way. If I want to learn tennis, I pick up a raquet and ball, and with some guidance, I learn how to swing and hit, and move my feet... I am NOT handed a physics text on action/reaction, compression, force and velocity and formulas that abstract the concept of playing tennis.

That is what Hero has, for too long, expected players to do. FReD is a text book, explaining the underlying physics of a game, rather than the game itself. We all know this. That was the intent... but at some point, they have to publish the GAME itself. The players have to pick up the raquet and ball, and swing a few times.

This Powers book needs to be the raquet and ball of Hero. Something the player can pick up and swing with... even if they don't do a good job of it, at first. A veteran player will serve an ace, first time out of the bag with this book... new players will put it in the net... but ALL players are able to easily take a swing... which has not been the case for Hero in the past.

IMO, this kind of supplement really needs to be the focus NOW... or Hero will fail to catch on, and only us old farts will be sticking around to watch it fade away, once again.

And Neil is a very good tennis player. I've only beaten him once (outta hundreds of matches) and he was sick. So he understands the tennis analogy. AS do I. And agree.

I think there should be a power set per page. Earth, Wind, Fire, Density, Gravity, Magnetics, Telekinetics, Ice, Water, Gravity, Electricity, Solar, Speedster, Vibrational, Kinetic, Telepathic, Empathetic, Invisibility, Ghost powers, Domination (mind control), Phermones...etc, etc. and unlike my quicky list, put into alphabetical order.

[Gary]

I'd like to see gravity done right. Currently, the only way of doing it properly is a monumentally expensive change environment or an area effect transform.

[Killer Shrike]

Ditto the Special Effects orientation. Sections per common comic book SFX, each containing properly advantaged/limited and composite power constructs to mechanically handle that SFX in a straitforward way, with a flavor text blurb, a description of the SFX, and if necessary a blurb to cover any 'hand waving' used to simulate the effect. Each Section could also have 2 Power Framework (MPP, EC) examples combining a playable assortment selected from the powers list, just referencing the full write up. A single para at the very begining of the book could point out how to use a VPP in conjunction with the listed powers as a note for the newbies, with a Yield symbol and a page reference back to FRED.

[Agent X]

I must agree that suggestions as to how to handle special effects is probably the MOST useful thing I could see in a book like this.

[Tom McCarthy]

SFX to consider
Acidic or Caustic touch/spray (or poison, or cellular destruction)
Air control (animation, flight, blast/gust)
Animal powers
Animal control/summoning
Animate dead/summon zombie
Animate image (bring picture to life, summoning)
Armoured form (steel body or skin, or copper, crystal, etc.)
Astral projection (to see somewhere, or to go there and act, or to visit some Astral Plane)
Chameleon/disguise
Chemical (catalyst touch, drug touch, caustic touch as above, poisons)
Claws
Cosmic Power/Omega Effect/Continuum Manipulation
Cyberkinesis
Cybernetics/android or robot origin
Darkness
Deduction/Intuition/Genius
Density Increase and Desolidification
Devolution/Evolution (actively evolving or devolving targets)
Dimension hopping powers
Diseases
Duplication/multiple bodies (Triplicate Girl, Multiple man, Silent Majority, temporal fugue vs. bodies, mass conservation vs. not, shared memory or not, severing your limb as independent entity)
Earth control
Eat anything (with or without Bite and chew anything)
Electricity
Energy form
Energy projection/blast
Entropy
Exorcism
Extra limbs
Fear (including an AE PRE suppress or drain)
Flame (flame armour, damage shield, blast, telekinesis to move or animate flames)
Flesh manipulation
Force or energy manipulation, telekinesis (force field, shield, wall, energy constructs)
Glue (a la Baron Zemo)
Gravity (increase, decrease)
Growth and Shrinking (self or others (shrinking ray, growth ray))
Healing factor (regeneration, healing self, armour, LS and power defence)
Healing others (including taking the damage onto self)
Hypnotism
Ice (create ice, ice armour, blast, barrier, entangle, ice animation)
Invisibility, and just hard to perceive/blurred
Liquid form/gas form
Light powers (flash, laser, hypnosis, teleport/AFAL, desolid, flashlight, etc.)
Immortality (longevity, or Instantly Mature Reincarnation option)
Luck/Probability manipulation
Magic (ah, good luck, voodoo, maybe ?)
Magnetic
Microwaves
Mimicry (mimicking others' powers, or properties of materials touched, some mimics 'steal' the powers, others just copy)
Object animation
Paralyzing touch
Plant control, animation, growth, phytotoxins, hypnotic spores and hallucinogens
Possession/jericho effect/Bodyjacking
Precognition, and implications of acting to change what is foreseen
Projectiles
Radiation
Reality Warping
Resilience, including life support
Shapeshift with a huge number/infinite number of forms
Solar energy
Sonic (blast primarily, but also sound invisibility)
Speed/kinetic manipulation (speed or slow objects or characters)
Stretching/Shapeshifting/Malleable (ZigZag, including flowing through pipes and porous barriers, entangling, simulating vehicles or weapons, etc.)
Summoning creatures, demons, constructs
Supersenses and Danger Sense
Superspeed
Superstrength
Telepathy (including Mind Control, mental blast, mental paralysis, psychometry (and flipside, clairsentience from point of view of an object once attuned to it), phobia inducement (mental illusions subset), Empathy)
teleportation (apportation, etc.; Tachyon's a good start)
Time manipulation (Capt. Chronos is a good start)
Transmutation
Two-dimensional form
Vampirism (or lycanthropy)
Ventriloquism
Vibrational attack
Water control (blast, animate, create, movement, breathe water)
Weather (fog, lightning, wind)
Warps and folding space
Wishes
Webs/Ropes/Lassos/Tentacles (what tricks require stretching vs. entangle vs. TK)

Game mechanics to consider (across multiple SFX)
Immunity to a SFX
Extra defences vs. a particular SFX
Gaining strength from being hit with a particular SFX
All or nothing attacks (petrification, for example)
Hard to heal attacks (disintegration)
Homing attacks
Auto hit attacks
Continuing uncontrolled attacks with higher or lower speed than character

[MisterVimes]

Wow Tom... you rule

[Tom McCarthy]

Miscellaneous others

Absorb any attack, then reply with that same attack (limited mimicry)
Judge an opponent's calibre (superpower level Analyze skill roll ?)
Superspeed - attack on the move (buying extra movement usable only with half moves, to allow half moves equal to your full move)
Insect powers
Insect summoning/control
Metal warping (magnetism offers this, but so may others)
Wooden body or wood animation/warping
Reptilian powers (tail, regeneration, venomous bite, cold blooded, LS: food and drink)
Steal memories / copy memories or knowledge
Superconduction of energy
Perfect reflection / Mirror powers
Plasma powers
Radio powers
Shadows (may or may not be the same as darkness; typically manipulation or teleport, possibly animation)
Temperature control (verging on ice and fire)
Kinetic energy
Berserkers (not just the limitation, but powers and levels that kick in when berserk; probably a limitation value based on the commonality of condition and the roll of the associated disadvantage)
Merging or melding lifeforms to one another
Merging or melding a lifeform to an inanimate object
Mind swap (and swap mind into inanimate object)
Command undead
Crystal powers
Machine animation (unintelligent machines)
Molecular or ion powers
TK trick: create a lightning bolt by sorting ions based on charge
Colour powers (sprays as flashes, hypnotic or emotional effects, disguise or chameleonic invisibility, etc.)
Create vulnerabilities or susceptibilities in a target
Gestalt powers (teamwork required)
Nemesis power (automatically gain the one power needed to defeat someone)
Bouncing ball (I like the idea of Bouncing Boy, though I'd never play him; put it under malleable guys)
Sheath self in energy (like flame, but other energy types)
Prehensile Hair (currently used in my campaign, and big in Ninja Hero)
Levitation (both as limited flight and limited TK)


You might want to throw in some Legion of Substitute Heroes style 'supers'/deuces in the book (the man who can change to his flesh to stone, but becomes insensate and immobile; the girl with superstrength only in the dark; the firebreather with hayfever; the infectious disease transmitter with always on).

[Talon]

Originally posted by Storn
I think there should be a power set per page. Earth, Wind, Fire, Density, Gravity, Magnetics, Telekinetics, Ice, Water, Gravity, Electricity, Solar, Speedster, Vibrational, Kinetic, Telepathic, Empathetic, Invisibility, Ghost powers, Domination (mind control), Phermones...etc, etc. and unlike my quicky list, put into alphabetical order.

I think this is the best idea so far -- this creates a clear special effect emphasis, provides a non-numeric approach which should encourage newcomers, and feels like exactly what Hero should be doing.

[Mutant for Hire]

I'm with everyone else. I'd really like to see all of the major elemental powers dealt with. And when I'm talking elements here, I'm talking scientific elementals such as gravity and magnetism as well as the traditionlly mystic ones like fire.

Power frameworks should not be necessary but I'd like to see powers grouped explicitly so as to state that they can be part of an elemental control, as the game designers see it.

And of course we need to have something like Green Lantern's ring, Rogue's power absorption power, and some of the more famous examples of power as well.

[Chaosliege]

I'd personally like to see more Brick Tricks. Too many bricks are just jump-n-punch. With STR giving so many figured characteristics, it's easily the most cost efective type of hero. Sometimes to the point of being unbalanced.

[steriaca]

Originally posted by Chaosliege
I'd personally like to see more Brick Tricks. Too many bricks are just jump-n-punch. With STR giving so many figured characteristics, it's easily the most cost efective type of hero. Sometimes to the point of being unbalanced.

Save some Brick Tricks for the Ultimate Brick. The UNTIL Superpower Database is going to be one big book. Don't forget the popular but not eveyone is doing it special effects.

Hear are more special effects to think of.

Friction to Heat conversion (I had writen up a speedster named Hotstreak who's special effect is to convert friction into heat).
Sound to Light conversion.
Light to Sound conversion.
Hot to Cold conversion.
Cold to Hot conversion.
Ki/C'hi/Mana special effects (as long as thay don't take to much thunder away from Ultimate Martial Artest and Ninja Hero).
Energy Control powers (not just generate, but control of that energy in others).
Biological Control ("deathtouch" and other nasty things).

I do like the ideal of "plug and play" (and I do agree on what a newbie thinks...thay think "I want x powers" first, and hates to think up the special effects first, and work backwords...which is why charater writups are so popular as examples of powers). Remember, we were ALL newbies once.

Anyways, that is my .02$.

Steriaca.

[zornwil]

A few things I'm interested in, no particular order:

- powers for normals that mix skills with power-level capability that allow for simulation of very high-powered but somehow still normal supers that stand up against big-time supers - for example, the so-stealthy-he-is-invisible powers, or the detects-lying-by-hearing-the-heart - not that I can't do these things but am interested to see the take on these sorts of things and others

- any complex bundled powers, like stretching linked to shape shift linked to strike, that sort of stuff

- traps

- quick write-up VPPs with powers in them - that's a tall order of course, but like 2-4 gadget VPPs, 2-4 magic VPPs, etc.

- (this one would be really interesting) - powers geared to disrupt others' weaknesses

[nharwell]

Tom's list is incredible! Please consider many of the effects he lists. It includes many of the powers that, in the past, I've found nearly impossible to do well in Hero.

Also, I'd like to see characters or templates using some of the "controversial" powers and constructs in 5E -- damage shield, shapeshifting, etc. Build some characters to show us that the current powers/costs can work....

[dbsousa]

I agree with many on the board who would like to see, if not frameworks, then framework friendly powers. Personally, I would like to see powers listed with a per die/level of effect. That would make it easy for new players to say, "The Flaminator has 10" radius of Start Fires at 6 points per inch, 6 dice of Hot Foot at 10 points per die, and 4 dice of Flame Out at 15 points per die." since each of these cost 60 point, it is simple to put them in an EC or MP.

[Redmenace]

I would really like to see a good example of a "Body of some element " power. Specifically, a body of fire/plasma or of water where by the nature of the body is a limited desolid mass that has several special effect related powers that effect the physical world.

The potential for a Pandora's box is perhaps too high but It was one of the rare concepts I've had trouble building in hero.

On a side note, great to have Hero and you back Steve, et all.

[CleverName]

First of all I think organizing by SFX is a great idea.

While I can understand wanting to save space for powers and more powers, I think a section at the end of the book giving examples of using the powers to build a power framework would be an invaluable lesson and resource for the newbies.

AND I think a master list of powers with costs, etc. would be a wonderful resource for the rest of us when we are running VPPs.

[Steve Long]

A short example at the back... hmmm. That I might be able to do.

Thanx for the suggestions, guys -- keep 'em comin'!

I'll have further word on my progress on the book in this Friday's update. It'll be good to get home and really dig into it.

[Monolith]

I spent some time trying to think of what powers I would like to see in the book, but to be honest Steve's imagination is greater than my own, and I am sure that I will be surprised by quite a few of the example powers in the book; just as I was with the examples in FREd.

The only thing I would really like to see is that all the powers in the book are of "reasonable" power level. What I mean by this is that the powers portrayed can be used by players in most games. Many of the example powers in FREd are 100+ active point powers. Those examples are really not that useful when most GMs have a 60 point AP limit. Even using the guidelines in FREd have an 80 AP cap on powers.

Having a 400 point Time Stop example power is interesting from a design standpoint, but it does not help a new player who only has 350 points to spend and an 60-80 point cap. If this book really is for newbies, then the power levels within the book should reflect that for the most part, IMO.

[CleverName]

I don't think it is necessary to have a variaable power scale for each example power -- lising 40/60/80 Active point levels for Sensory powers would seem to be a waste, for example.

I do think that it make great sense for attack and defense powers -- using the AP examples currently in champions would seem to be the ticket.

[CleverName]

Steve, how big a part is the UNTIL DATABASE conceit going to play in the book?

While, I've never loved UNTIL* I think that some useful "non-gamespeak" jargon could be helpful in our games.

For example, it often hard to rate the power level of villians (and their powers) in a particular game without breaking into gamespeak. This supplement might give us a related set of terminology -- like the overall powerlevels in CKC.

class 1 powers = less than 40 AP
class 2 powers = 40-54 AP
class 3 powers = 55-74 AP
etc.
(You can probably come up with something better.)

So when Sapphire says, "Dr. Destroyer's left nostril beam is a class 5 lazer blast!" it means something both in-game, and gives a game mechanic foundation as well.

* I'm still looking forward to the book, I personally find superpowers more believable than a coherant UN organization... :rolleyes:

[Celtic Cowboy]

I think McCarthy is on the right track although there could be several ways to format it. Most importantly something that gives the novice players a chance to look at the powers by theme or special effect and then figure out what the details of the Hero system are instead of looking at FRED and trying to make sense of how to write up thier character.
If he want's a human torch character someplace to give them lots of quick ideas of not only how to build the power but what kind of stunt powers to add on to it.

Mark

[Monolith]

Originally posted by CleverName
SWhile, I've never loved UNTIL* I think that some useful "non-gamespeak" jargon could be helpful in our games.

For example, it often hard to rate the power level of villians (and their powers) in a particular game without breaking into gamespeak. This supplement might give us a related set of terminology -- like the overall powerlevels in CKC.
CKC already has a ranking system within it. I do not know if Steve plans on expanding that system, but it wouldn't be a bad idea. It would definately add some color to the book.

[CleverName]

Originally posted by Monolith
CKC already has a ranking system within it. I do not know if Steve plans on expanding that system, but it wouldn't be a bad idea. It would definately add some color to the book.

Oooops, I do not have my book with me. I thought that rating system was an overall rating of the villian's power, not a rating for "a" power of that villian!

[JakSpade]

Steve,

What about "Powers You'll Never See"? Kinda like having a funny little weird powers area...

Example Powers You'll Never See: 1d6 Flash, Sticky, Uncontrolled, Continuous.

"Stick a Flash on an agent, and watch him run!"

Or have I just broken the rules here... :)

Jak

[Steve Long]

Steve, how big a part is the UNTIL DATABASE conceit going to play in the book?

Generally not a real huge part -- I don't want to inhibit the usefulness of the book, or bulk up its size, by adding a lot of "flavor text" that's of marginal usefulness to many readers.

However, we do want to give the book some "color," so here's what we're doing. First, the illustrations will have a dandy little stylized border by Keith Curtis that resembles an UNTIL computer frame, or something like that. Second, where possible, I'm going to include sidebars that accompany each illo. Some will be "excerpts" from the Database itself, but others will be agents' field notes, scientist's notes, and so on.

Should be a lot of fun, and it will include some form of "power ranking" system. It won't be the same as the Alpha-Beta-Delta-Omega system in CKC, though -- that's a Department of Defense method for ranking the overall threat posed by a villain, whereas this is an UNTIL ranking for specific powers.

[Klytus]

If any of these suggestions are repeats, do forgive me. I skimmed over the prior posts as best as I could.

Anyway, I want to see solid pre-defined example of...

- The Vulcan Neck Pinch
- Aura Perception (seeing the feelings of the target)
- Mental Invisibility (i.e., the "Somebody-Elses-Problem" field effect)
- "Cursing" a target with negative skill levels
- Missile Reflection vs hand-to-hand attacks (i.e., if the target you punch makes a missile deflection role, you feel the brunt of your own attack)

I'll post more as i think of them.

[CleverName]

Originally posted by Steve Long
Should be a lot of fun, and it will include some form of "power ranking" system. It won't be the same as the Alpha-Beta-Delta-Omega system in CKC, though -- that's a Department of Defense method for ranking the overall threat posed by a villain, whereas this is an UNTIL ranking for specific powers.

Perfect, that was just what I was looking for. Looking foward to the book.

[megaplayboy]

Rogue's power--"I steal your powers AND knock you out instantly"--done in some halfway balanced fashion would be interesting, probably useful more for GMs...

[Steve Long]

Rogue's power--"I steal your powers AND knock you out instantly"--done in some halfway balanced fashion

While I'm at it, I'll spin straw into gold, too. :)

Seriously, some powers simply aren't balanced for game purposes, and really can't be made balanced without ruining them. What works in a comic book, where the writer controls what the main characters do, doesn't always work in a game (where the "head writer," the GM, has virtually no control over what the main characters, the PCs, do). I definitely expect the book will have a "Rogue Touch" sort of power, at least insofar as stealing powers, but the aim is going to be to simulate a particular ability properly, not to "balance" it at the expense of creating what I want to present.

In my experience, the best way to "balance" that sort of power is to only allow a player mature enough to use it properly to build a character with it. I've gamed with people who I wouldn't hesitate to let have this power, because they'd only use it once every few games (at most) and only when it was truly "in character" to do so. I've gamed with other people who I wouldn't let have this power if they paid me, because they'd use it every chance they got in complete defiance of common sense or genre conventions.

OK, minor digression over. Back to work on Force Powers. Please keep the suggestions and ideas coming! :)

[Space Cadet]

What I'd like to see is an example of a "firestorm" power -- in
essence, a combination fire/wind attack that not only does
energy damage to its target(s), but knockback damage from
the wind as well.

Space Cadet :cool:

[RDU Neil]

Originally posted by Steve Long
While I'm at it, I'll spin straw into gold, too. :)

Seriously, some powers simply aren't balanced for game purposes, and really can't be made balanced without ruining them. What works in a comic book, where the writer controls what the main characters do, doesn't always work in a game (where the "head writer," the GM, has virtually no control over what the main characters, the PCs, do). I definitely expect the book will have a "Rogue Touch" sort of power, at least insofar as stealing powers, but the aim is going to be to simulate a particular ability properly, not to "balance" it at the expense of creating what I want to present.

In my experience, the best way to "balance" that sort of power is to only allow a player mature enough to use it properly to build a character with it. I've gamed with people who I wouldn't hesitate to let have this power, because they'd only use it once every few games (at most) and only when it was truly "in character" to do so. I've gamed with other people who I wouldn't let have this power if they paid me, because they'd use it every chance they got in complete defiance of common sense or genre conventions.

OK, minor digression over. Back to work on Force Powers. Please keep the suggestions and ideas coming! :)

Seriously, Steve... this kind of commentary... and it doesn't even have to be any more fleshed out than a couple paragraphs like this... is perfect for the Powers sourcebook, as well. A little "Author's Note" and not a whole essay, that your goal is to "reflect a power accurately" but not necessarily "balanced" for game play.

I like that, and would encourage such commentary in the book itself.

[Yamo]

I notice "Time powers" (Freezing folks in time, etc) come up a lot.

The "Jericho effect" where one physically enters another body to borrow it.

YES!

I most emphatically second this motion! Please include many, many variations on time freezing/general time control and "body-stealing" Powers of all kinds. These give so many people (especially newbies) fits.

Some good examples of the Power Skill and Power Tricks.

I second this, as well.

- Attacks that don't miss

Definitely. It bugs me to no end that HERO can't do something as basic as the old D&D Magic Missile spell.

shape shifting to ANY animal

This is another good one. Took me quite a while to figure out the way to model "universal Multiforms". The best solution is a sizable cosmic VPP only for appropriate Multiforms, but don't expect that to be too obvious to a newbie. :)

[Ace of Spades]

Here are some of the more entertaining powers I remember from Scott Heine, Steve Holmes etc's Protector's and Protector's Cadets games.

Missile Deflection / Teleport Gimic...

I remember one character, a teleporter, that could throw up a field of energy in front of himself that acted like a portal to another dimension. Bullets and attacks launched against the character would simply pass through the portal into the character's pocket dimension. I seem to recall the character used missile deflection defined as absorbing the bullets through his teleport shield into the pocket dimension. A pretty simple power but one that I thought "Looked Nifty" on the battlefield.

Ring Master

One of the most hideous villains the Protectors ever encountered was a fellow by the name of Ring Master. Yes, he was a criminal master mind that operated out of an evil carnival / circus. What made him truely nasty was that he had a very high Mind Sense ability and a very powerful Mind Control that I believe was always on with invisible power effects that could only target mutants. I believe Scott limited the number of mutants he could control at any given time to a half dozen or so. The character had not other powers really to mention but even so he was incredibly dangerous. Mind Control vs. Mutants...an excellent power for villain master minds.

The Ragman

The Ragman came out of the twisted mind of Al Wenzel who used to play Mandroid in our games long long long ago. Ragman, as far as I could tell, was a scarecrow that had become sentient, animated and incredibly evil when it was exposed to some wierd magical eminations during one of our team battles. Later this fellow appeared on the scene as a major villain threat. He would sew up other full size ragmen and stuff them with some of the straw from inside his own body. ( he always seemed to have plenty of extra to stuff into other ragmen...probably part of the magic that animated him ) Anyway. The Ragman was fun to fight. He was always dressing his ragman thugs up based on the theme of that particular crime. I remember a scenario where his eight ragmen were dressed as mailmen, another where they were all decked out as santa claus..and on and on. The Ragman would manipulate his life size puppets from a distance and then attempt to flee the area if things began to go against him. His attacks were always incredibly brutal and caculated to produce the highest possible damage to normals.

The Long Ranger

Hardly anyone does nifty stretching powers any more. I recall someone writing up a hero dressed in cowboy threads that had stretching powers called the Long Ranger. Sometimes the right power and name match are a good combination just for hours of sheer laughs.

Scarecrow

Scott used to play this awesome vigilante character named Scarecrow...Scarecrow used to wear some sort of fire resistant pumpkin that he'd actually light on fire for a temporary add to his presence. Then he'd unleash a loud maniacal cackle that used to scare the bejesus out of me when I'd try and gm for him. I know your not doing gadgets int his book..but powers that make a character more impressive, temporary boosts to presence are fun.

[Bazza]

Before I wasn't that exited about this book. But after reading this thread that has reversed. I AM exited by this book, it looks like that Steve will be looking after us newbies with this book.

I also echo the plug and play aspect to the book. As not knowing how to reverse engineer the creation of the super powers this aspect will make it easier. The tennis example is great, maybe reprinting it in the book would be helpful to the kind of turbopower the HERO system provides.

I have browsed the Palladium RIFTs books and their "classes" for certain power groups eg ICE powers. I'm guessing that these sort of superpowers would fit into Multipowers, Power Framworks or Variable Power Pools. A brief not explaining how the powers fit into these constructs (this echoing others posts) would make life easier to get into HERO.

I also like the post Steve did earlier about presenting a 'template' power and a brief way to customise it. RPGs are about imagination, encouraging that will go a long way. just presenting 'templates' without the extra info doesn't.

If I think of anything else I'll post. Thanks again for listening.

[mauk2]

If I may make a small sugestion: Make at least a few powers in a "modular" fashion.

For example, make a power total exactly 60 active points for 12 dice of effect. Need less? Then it is easy to adjust.

45 points is 9 dice.
75 points is 15 dice.
90 points is 18 dice.
etc.

For example, 12d6 EB, AP, HA. Costs 9 end.

Call it a vibro-staff. Change special effects, rename it.

Does this make any sense? :)


Also, many years ago, there was a random chacter generator in some supplement. It was a series of lists where each list pointed you to roll for a power or ability, all based on 3 or 4 sets of basic stats. It was VERY nice....

[Blue]

Between the Hero books and the other players (such as those on this board) plus my own ingenuity, there aren't many effects left that I couldn't simulate. Having said that, here are the ones I tend to think people might like to see:


Making a character "Evil" - One of those great conventions of comics is turning a hero against his friends through use of powers. Mind control is generally intended for creating specific commands. Perhaps there's a good "transformation" type effect for this?
I think the book could benefit from a list of "side effects" (As in the Limitation). It seems to be one of the more under-used limitations, and a quick list of things (Power also catches attacker on fire, Power causes dizziness, etc.) and their worth might be useful to someone slapping together a new power.
I know we all love math (Yes, that's sarcasm). I think 1st or 2nd edition hero had a chart for calculating costs without a calculator? You know: You cross-index the active cost with the total limitation and it gives you a real cost. In this world of calculators it may be obsolete now, but I just know I hate carrying around a calculator.
How about a good, solid, comprehensive list of special effects. I know it's impossible to get them all (which is why its so fun to make powers) but wouldn't it be nice to have your player who is trying to come up with a concept turn to page 84 and look through a list (Ice, Fire, Electrical, etc.) to get ideas?

I hope something in there is useful to you. And I am looking forward to seeing this book more so than any other book you've put out (w/ the exception of 5e).
Thanks for listening to your customers.
Blue

[slaughterj]

Things I'd like to see in the USPD:

1. For the focus to be on sfx, as mentioned by many. E.g., if I want to play a Sonics Powers guy, list what should/could he have - obviously he could have a defense/mvmt EC and offense MP, but list what neat things could be in either. For instance, the offense MP could have a Sonic Disintegrator Ray vs. Unliving Objects (i.e., RKA, Penetrating, Lim - not vs. living), in addition to typical attacks (EB, Flash vs. Hearing, etc.) Make these neat powers for each sfx out there, and not just for energy protector types, i.e., include classic brick tricks, ways to handle paralysis and sleeping attacks, etc.
2. As already noted, set up the powers at varying power levels so they can be dropped into MPs or ECs readily, i.e., set at least at 45/60/75pts, and perhaps 50 & 55 pts as well - this at least partly solves avoiding Power Frameworks in the USPD.
3. However, some use of MPs and ECs seems necessary, e.g., the movie-spiderman's webshooters - these probably should be an MP with slots for swinging, entangle, stretching, etc. - not building this power construct in a Power Framework would be inconceivable, and certain things like this should be in the USPD, even if Power Frameworks are going to be avoided in general.
4. Discuss the use of the Power Skill more.

[Tech]

I'm not sure if I missed this or not but here's my thought:

I'd like to see some non-stereotypical powers. I don't mean 5d6 Ego Attack, 1/2 End and I don't mean
8d6 AP EB at 1/2 End.

I do mean something like: 6d6 Penetrating EB, linked to 6d6 AP EB or 5d6 Ego Attack, Does BODY, does Double Knockback. Yes, there are infinite variations that could be presented but several of these could help those who've never played a superhero game or want a mystical character but aren't sure what kind of powers to create.

[Syberdwarf2]

Originally posted by mauk2
If I may make a small sugestion: Make at least a few powers in a "modular" fashion.

For example, make a power total exactly 60 active points for 12 dice of effect. Need less? Then it is easy to adjust.

45 points is 9 dice.
75 points is 15 dice.
90 points is 18 dice.
etc.

For example, 12d6 EB, AP, HA. Costs 9 end.

Call it a vibro-staff. Change special effects, rename it.

Does this make any sense? :)


Also, many years ago, there was a random chacter generator in some supplement. It was a series of lists where each list pointed you to roll for a power or ability, all based on 3 or 4 sets of basic stats. It was VERY nice....

I found a Random Character generator at:
www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/1905/haym03.html
written by Dave Mattingly.
Works great, and makes quick, beleivable characters in a pinch.

[Geryon]

Hey Steve, total newbie here, I just bought my copy of 5E 3 days ago, and just got through reading the whole thing today. Its Great! First off, I'd like to say its incredibly cool that there is this much interaction and input with the game designer. Anyway, on to the things i'd like to see in the UNTIL powers DB.

1. At least a little bit of stuff on the power frameworks and gadgets. These are the thing that confuses new people the most, and tons of characters use them. To leave them totally out of this book would be a travesty. Obviously, you are going to save a lot of the stuff for the gadgets book, but some mention, even only a few pages, would help new people immensly. I would love to see a lot of stuff on power frameworks, because I know that was the section of FREd I had to re-read the most to understand.

2. Examples of powers which aren't obviously recreatable with the rules. Stuff like time travel, body stealing etc... I know you said to check out digital hero, but it would be nice to have this stuff in a book, and what better place for it than in a powers database. Also, in response to your idea that these powers might unbalance the game, I don't care if the writeup is a 1200 active point power no GM with any sense would ever allow, I just want to know how you could do it so I can keep telling myself you can do anything with this system. :D Also, aside from the really difficult stuff, any really weird stuff would also be cool.

3. Please please please make this book something gear towards newbies: plug and play powers are good. Even if you don't discuss frameworks and gadgets at length, using them as examples would be much appreciated. That way, a new person could say "I want to play an iron man type" and you could drop out this gadget multipower for the armor, add a couple other things, and have him a quick character to play while he learns the system.

[Steve Long]

Thanx for the suggestions, Geryon! Glad you're enjoying 5E.

plug and play powers are good

That's pretty much exactly what the book is -- a gigantic list of plug-and-play powers, with options, ranging from the easily-conceived-of-but-helpful to the so-that's-how-you-do-that (or, more accurately, that's the one way I chose to do that for this book:)).

[Greg K.]

Powers that I would like to see that have not yet been mentioned these come from Steve Kenson's Ultimate Powers Guide for the Marvel Superhero Adventure Game

Animal Duplication: You can duplicate the abilities of any animal. Examples of characters with this power are Animal Man and Vixen

Dimension Control: You can change the number of physical dimensions you occupy. The number of dimensions you occupy at a given moment grants you specific powers.

Dream Control: You can manipulate dreams.

Evolution: Summoning neanderthal and protoplasmic evolutionary forms.

Magic Control: The character cannot cast spells but rather alter the flow and behavior of magic. The character can Deflect/reflect (Magic only), change the nature of a spell, Aid (magic spells), Absorption (magic), Dispel (magic), Drain (magic), suppress (magic)

Parasitic Implantation: Putting a parasite into another being which then serves as a host.

Resistance to Entangle

Resistance to Displacement : Using Power Defense to simulate the character that is resistant to Teleportation or Extra Dimensional Movement with the Useable Against Others advantage

Serial Immortality: If the character dies they spirit inhabits a new body that is either recently deceased or was prepared for such an occurance

Spirit Control: The character can control ghosts and spirits.
Mind Control (Spirits), Animate Spirits, Astral Projection, Detect (Spirits), Negate (Mind Control), Drain (Strength, Dex, Con), Summon Spirits, Entangle spirit, Communicate with past lives, Force a spirit into another body

Space Control: You can stretch and twist space to create various effects.
Running, Speed Drain (to slow opponents) (?), Teleportation Gateways, Missle Deflection, Energy Blast (area effect), RKA or Transform ("Disintegration"), Negate (teleportation and extra dimensonal movement)

[Thag13]

This is mostly a "me too" post.

I think the Plug and Play approach is the way to go.

Design the powers for the newbie players based on special effects and I think you will have a winner.

I would also like to see some generic art work that could be customized by PS to make pictures of thier hero and villians, kinda like the old Character sheets.

Thanks for the chance of input Steve

[Michael Hopcroft]

I'd like to see a little bit on the things characters can do when Grown or Shrunk.

I'd also like to see a Shriking -- Usable Against Others power. You're fighting a supervillain and suddenly he makes the entire team six inches tall. Worse, their strength and capabilities are reduced proportionally! (Perhaps it's linked to a very large Supress.)

How do the PC's avoid being squashed and get back to their proper sizes? Hoes does the team shrinker react? What about the team grower?

[ShadowRaptor]

I didn't read the entire board and if this was already mentioned then forgive the repetition, but I think it would be cool if there were some hex grids in the back that are very similar to the other ones in the bestiary book and resource kit for cone, area effects, range modifiers and similar things that can be used with powers. I hope that makes sense.

[Steve Long]

It definitely makes sense, but I'm afraid it's not going to happen. We're not going to have room for anything like that, and we've already got the ones in the HSB anyways. ;)

[ShadowRaptor]

Originally posted by Shadow Stalker

How do I add a pic under my name? I checked the FAQ and it has no real answer.

I was wondering this myself...can ya tell us, we need cool pics also??? Both of us Shadow types need cool, mysterious looking pics... :)

[Osprey]

I finally saw the newest Super Movie (DD).

I'd like to see you try the villian's power.

Call it "Sure shot."

[Balok]

Originally posted by ShadowRaptor
I was wondering this myself...can ya tell us, we need cool pics also??? Both of us Shadow types need cool, mysterious looking pics... :)

Log in if you're not already. Click 'Profile' (at the top of the screen). Cleck 'Edit Options'. Scroll down to the last entry, Avatar. Click 'More Info' to read about it. Click 'Change Avatar' to set an avatar (that's what these little images are called.) You have to provide the image, of course.

[rayoman]

Originally posted by Steve Long
Back to work on Force Powers.

Is that The Force, as in Star Wars? Or Force as in Cyclop's eyebeams?

[Steve Long]

It's not necessarily either. It's generic comic book "force," as in the sort of thing generic force fields is made out of. ;)

[rayoman]

thpppppppppp!

;)

Originally posted by Steve Long
It's not necessarily either. It's generic comic book "force," as in the sort of thing generic force fields is made out of. ;)

[Steve Long]

However, I did forget to post, in response to the question's mention of Cyclops, that the power I put in the book that's a version of Cyclops's eyebeams is listed under "Force Powers" for lack of a better place to put it. ;)

[Urklore]

Do we get to playtest this for accuracy and such? Also, I'd love to see elemtental form tyoe writeups. Specifically how Iceman's new pure icy form (where attacks simply blow through him or he simply freforms when shattered) would work out. This would also include things like the T-1000 from T2, pure water forms (like from Abyss), and such.

[steriaca]

Originally posted by Urklore
Do we get to playtest this for accuracy and such? Also, I'd love to see elemtental form tyoe writeups. Specifically how Iceman's new pure icy form (where attacks simply blow through him or he simply freforms when shattered) would work out. This would also include things like the T-1000 from T2, pure water forms (like from Abyss), and such.

For Iceman's new forme, basicly it is a special effect as far as I know. Prehaps the power Desolid best simulates the T-1000 liquid metal and Abyss' liquid body (prehaps with Shapeshift).

[Steve Long]

Do we get to playtest this for accuracy and such?

The DH playtesters will get their usual chance to look over it. I expect the only "accuracy" checking involved will be review of the math, since I'm not specifically trying to simulate any real-world thing -- and even then, subjective considerations make checking the "accuracy" a questionable process at best. ;)

[Urklore]

EEEK! I met for accuracy, the typical things. Making things work, math, making sure powers fit in the proper frameworks, etc.

[tiger]

When to we get to see it...when do we get to see it..when do we get to see it

[Steve Long]

Hopefully I will have it ready for playtesters by this Wednesday, before I leave for Portland. I am currently doing my editing/math-checking pass.

I think folx will enjoy the book. It's 150,000 words long, so it's got a lot of material (though there are still plenty of things I could add, if I had the time or wanted to make it bigger). In addition to lots of "standard" powers, I've crammed in plenty of more unusual ones, vaguely disguised -- Jericho's bodyjacking, Darkseid's omega-beams, Rogue's touch, a unimind power, a nifty little "Stop Dead" power that cancels the target's inertia/momentum, and lots more.

The book'll probably end up being about the size of the Bestiary.

[Catacomb]

Just testing my account

[Yamo]

I think folx will enjoy the book. It's 150,000 words long, so it's got a lot of material (though there are still plenty of things I could add, if I had the time or wanted to make it bigger). In addition to lots of "standard" powers, I've crammed in plenty of more unusual ones, vaguely disguised -- Jericho's bodyjacking, Darkseid's omega-beams, Rogue's touch, a unimind power, a nifty little "Stop Dead" power that cancels the target's inertia/momentum, and lots more.

Than you have done well, and you shall be rewarded.

With me measly $24.95 or so, at least. ;)

[altamaros]

I fear it's too late for a new power but :

parasitic duplication : ability to duplicate self (really duplicate no summoning) by infecting other people (or corpses).

[Blue]

A uni-mind power? Awesome :)
I was working on something like that last night. Now I may just have to hold up that/those characters and see if you've got a better take on it.

Bring it on! I'm a character making fool lately. With this I'll be doing it twice as fast.

[tiger]

Wiping mouth

Sounds good to me. Todays Wednessday right? :D

[Steve Long]

Nope, Wednesday's tomorrow. ;) Today I'm still checking math. I'm about to start checking "Size Alteration Powers," and I plan to keep checking until I'm done. That'll leave tomorrow to get the playtest mss. ready and send it to Ben, and to prep for my trip to GameStorm and GTS while the playtesters start working.

[tiger]

well..........It's wednessday somewhere:D

[Urklore]

Today is the day of Wednesday, the day of the day the playtest should start :)

[Steve Long]

Workin' on it....

[tiger]

Originally posted by Steve Long
Workin' on it....

For the record it wasn't me :D

[Blue]

Please do not taunt or feed the employees!

[Monolith]

I should just say that it is here. :)

[Steve Long]

As noted, the manuscript is now available for playtesting.

[PhantomGM6101]

MEGA POWER RULES!
How about creating some power groups,ala GURPS?
put together some powers in a specific group along with some advantages and limitations and power effects along with a specific EC . put em together and ZOWIE! instant character .All you have to do is add stats and you're good to go!

[Monolith]

Originally posted by PhantomGM6101
MEGA POWER RULES!
How about creating some power groups,ala GURPS?
put together some powers in a specific group along with some advantages and limitations and power effects along with a specific EC . put em together and ZOWIE! instant character .All you have to do is add stats and you're good to go!
That is what the Random Character Generator in Champions does. :)

[Thirdbase]

UNTIL out of the US.

[SaintHax]

If it isn't too late...

I've always had the hardest time generating a power that stuns or dazes a target. The closest thing I could get was a Flash, but it doesn't work right. I also tried an Entangle, but again not right.

I need a power to basically Con Stun an opponent and still be balanced. For example, a little 2d6 EB that Stuns really easy (I'm thinking a advantage similar to Double KB).

Also, making someone sick is difficult. I want to 1/2 their movement, but can't do that. I can drain "any movement power", but I only want 1/2 of it-- resisted by CON. Reduces CV (OCV, DCV, and ECV).

And... a power that adds activation rolls to skills. I would assume this would be some sort of Drain anything: adds specific limitation (-0).

[Chuk]

Originally posted by SaintHax

I need a power to basically Con Stun an opponent and still be balanced. For example, a little 2d6 EB that Stuns really easy (I'm thinking a advantage similar to Double KB).

That could just be regular EB, Stun Only, only to Stun. Depending on your campaign I'd probably give that at least -3/4. Make it NND if you need to.

[SaintHax]

Chuk, from what I understand, the UNTIL book will have nothing but powers that can be created w/ the current books. What it will do is show us how to create the hard ones. As you noted, the Limitation amount is a gray area.

[Catacomb]

Go in depth about VPP's and elemental controls.

[SaintHax]

I'd like to see a "Batman like" vpp. Batman doesn't build his stuff on the field, but he always manages to have what he needs on hand. Once he pulls out a device from his belt, it's there till he get's back to the Bat Cave. I was thinking it would be a vpp, no rolls, instant, but w/ some type of charges limitation to represent that he can't change it constantly. Not sure. Haven't really sat down and chewed on it-- that's why we have Steve :-)

[Steve Long]

For that sort of thing, SH, you'll have to wait until next year's Gadgets And Gear. No gadgetry in the Superpowers Database, since gadgets aren't really "superpowers" as the book uses the term, and it's such a broad topic it definitely deserves its own book anyway.

[David E Martin]

I'm vaguely familiar with the Marvel RPG book you're discussing, though I've never read it cover to cover. I don't have any intention of contacting anyone and asking him to participate in the creation of the USPD, for a whole bunch o' reasons.

Oh, puh-leeeze!
"Vaguely familiar"??????
Okay, if that's your story......
Obviously you were a lot more familiar with the UPB's half-sibling, DEO: Directive on Superpowers--
"And to Nikki Vrtis, for the Directive, and more."
Not to mention openly copying DEO : DOS' format.

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
But an honest acknowledgement, or better yet, a consulting fee would have been nice.

Still, at least you came up with an original title. I cannot say that about the Mutants & Masterminds: Ultimate Powers Sourcebook.

[ghost-angel]

Oh wow, five year thread necromancy AND insulting to boot.

We have a new winner in lows.

[proditor]

Oh wow, five year thread necromancy AND insulting to boot.

We have a new winner in lows.

Especially since the forum has today as the join date, and that as his first post.

[megaplayboy]

To be fair, if the poster is who he claims to be(the author or co-author of the two works in question), he's alleging something akin to IP theft by Mr. Long. To establish that, though, I think he'd have to at least post a page from the DOE book, or the old UPB, so there'd be a side by side comparison of the products.

[Chris Goodwin]

If I was going to make vague and unspecified allegations of "copying [...] format", my first look at whose format was copied would be the original AD&D first edition Player's Handbook.

If you're going to publish a book of powers, spells, whatever, there's only so many formats you can do it in. Including a shorthand block of the power's requirements, range, and so on, is pretty obvious, and I have serious doubts it's protected IP. Then again, I'm not a lawyer, but I have a feeling I know of one (http://www.herogames.com/forums/member.php?u=4) who posts around here.

Edit: Having looked at the book in question, I'm not sure what he's saying was copied.

[proditor]

If I was going to make vague and unspecified allegations of "copying [...] format", my first look at whose format was copied would be the original AD&D first edition Player's Handbook.

If you're going to publish a book of powers, spells, whatever, there's only so many formats you can do it in. Including a shorthand block of the power's requirements, range, and so on, is pretty obvious, and I have serious doubts it's protected IP. Then again, I'm not a lawyer, but I have a feeling I know of one (http://www.herogames.com/forums/member.php?u=4) who posts around here.

Edit: Having looked at the book in question, I'm not sure what he's saying was copied.

Yeah, seeing as the UPB was a listing and description of powers linked to a set of random die-roll tables, by the OP's logic, Jeff Dee should be gearing up to sue the ever loving %^&* out of the creators of the UPB.

Just sayin'.

[megaplayboy]

Yeah, seeing as the UPB was a listing and description of powers linked to a set of random die-roll tables, by the OP's logic, Jeff Dee should be gearing up to sue the ever loving %^&* out of the creators of the UPB.

Just sayin'.

yeah, but I think the OP is referring to the DC Universe powers sourcebook, which came out either at the same time or slightly before the USPD, IIRC.

[proditor]

yeah, but I think the OP is referring to the DC Universe powers sourcebook, which came out either at the same time or slightly before the USPD, IIRC.

Sort of, he starts by questioning Steve's claim that he wasn't familiar with the UPB, then he moves on to the DC Universe book. He continues to muddy the water by knocking on the M&M product name, which leads back to the UPB.

So unless he clarifies, we have no way to know which one is really a bee in his bonnet.

Either way, if he is who he claims to be, well:

1) I liked the UPB and the FF compendium, nice work.
2) This is probably the one of the most unprofessional ways to have hand