Naked Power Advantage Active vs Real points

[nightfox]

As of HDv2 v2.26 (I think) Naked Power Advantages have been calculating differently.

The active cost of naked advantages is being set equal to the real cost of the naked advantage.

IE If you have power of 40 points Naked Advantages worth +1 and -1 worth of limitations you should have

Naked Power Advantage: 40 active points and 20 real points
HDv2 is doing: 20 Active points and 20 real points

Also - the FAQ is calculating the END off of the Real Points of the naked advantages - I'm not sure if this is correct.

Forum Thread on END cost of naked advantage (http://herogame.dans.cust.servlets.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15318)

Nightfox

[Simon]

HD is correct on all counts.

The Naked Modifier is a single ability. If you choose to have multiple Modifiers assigned to it, then that set of Modifiers (both advantages and Limitations) are used to determing the base cost of the Naked Modifier.

If you do not apply any Advantages or Limitations to the Naked Modifier (note: this is different from defining the Naked Modifiers), then the Active Cost is equal to the Real Cost, just like any other Power.

[nightfox]

The Naked Modifier is a single ability. If you choose to have multiple Modifiers assigned to it, then that set of Modifiers (both advantages and Limitations) are used to determing the base cost of the Naked Modifier.

If you do not apply any Advantages or Limitations to the Naked Modifier (note: this is different from defining the Naked Modifiers), then the Active Cost is equal to the Real Cost, just like any other Power.


Hmm,
I think I'm begining to understand how to make this work like I thought it did. My main confusion I think is the two different buttons "Naked Modifiers" and "Add Modifiers" (these are newer than the documentation)

I'm not exactly sure why they are both there, though I'll give it a try.


so "Naked Modifiers" is used to modify the Cost for the Modifier based on the Max Base Cost while "Add Modifer" is there to modify the Naked Modifiiers (the active cost) so this is where you would your limitations on your naked advantages. Of course, you could also use this to add advantages onto your "Naked Advantages" for cheaper than you would if they were naked advantages. I'm not sure when you would want to do this though for a power example.



An example Naked advantage would be the 'Rolling Thunder Punch' an Autofire (3 shot), Double Knockback, Hand-to-Hand Attack only naked advantage on strength (its actually there so that the corresponding HA with AF and 2KB works right).


So to build this for a character of 40 strength we would

Select "Naked Modifier" from the powers list
Set the "Max base cost" to 40 (the characters strength)
Set "applies to" to STR ???? (not sure what the drop down is for)


Then add Autofire and Double Knockback in using "naked Modifiers"
Active Cost = 40
Follow that by "Add Modifiers" -1/2 limitation Hand to Hand Attack - power loses 1/3 of effectiveness (HTH attack as a limitation is not an option)
Active Cost = 40 Real Cost = 27
END cost = 4 END

So now you have a naked advantage for strength (HTH attack only) that is AF and 2KB.


If you had entered HTH as a naked modifier then the cost structure would have been
Active cost = 27 and Reall Cost = 27
END cost = 3 END
(which is of course not right)

AF as the "Naked Modifier" and 2KB and HTH as "add modifiers" gives
Active Cost = 17 real cost = 10
END Cost = 2 END

These "options" are where my head starts to hurt trying to figure out when I should actually use them.

Hmm, this might be a case

how about naked AF (and HTH ) on STR 40 for
(AF naked mod and HTH add mod)
Active Cost 10 real cost 7

and then 2KB on this AF (and HTH) on STR 40 for
(AF naked mod and 2KB / HTH as add mod)
Active Cost 17 and Real Cost 11


No - this can't be right - the total active cost of these powers should still be 40

maybe done as (2KB naked mod and AF/HTH as add mods)
Active Cost 37 and Real Cost 25

Nope not that either

I think I still need some work on how these all work together

[Blue]

A naked modifier is used if the modifier itself is independant of the power.

Example: My martial artist, Anthem, has naked modifiers that are usable with RKAs of 2D6K or less. These are things like Armor Piercing ("accurate shot"), 1-hex area ("ricochet"), etc. They are not built into the shurikens themselves, they are instead her own power that she uses with RKAs she picks up or carries with her (so long as they are muscle-powered and 2D6K or less).

"Add Modifiers" is a button that appears on every power to allow you to give that specific power a modifier.

If anthem's Armor Piercing was actually built into her shurikens, she'd open the RKA titled "shurikens" and click Add Modifier and select "Focus" (among other things).

[nightfox]

A naked modifier is used if the modifier itself is independant of the power.

Example: My martial artist, Anthem, has naked modifiers that are usable with RKAs of 2D6K or less. These are things like Armor Piercing ("accurate shot"), 1-hex area ("ricochet"), etc. They are not built into the shurikens themselves, they are instead her own power that she uses with RKAs she picks up or carries with her (so long as they are muscle-powered and 2D6K or less).


I'm understanding that, but in the previous versions it didn't have "Nake modifier" button in the 'Nake Modifier' power and the point calculations were different

Lets take your example. (and then add a limitation to add my point)
I'm also going to raise it to 3D6 RKA so I can show END point breaks


Ok 3D6 RKA is a 45 point Active power

To create AP as a Naked Advantage for any Muscle Powered RKA of 3D6 or less is

45 Active points x 1/2 advantage = 22 active points and 2 END extra to use

Now if we add in a -1/2 limitation like Activation 14- then we get

22 active points / (1+1/2 limitation) = 15 Real Points and 2 END extra to use


Now if we did this using HD v 2.22 (which I still had laying around)
We would create a naked modifier with a 45 pt base cost and modifiers or +1/2 AP and -1/2 Act 14- Which would read
Cost 15 Naked Modifier, AP (+1/2) (22 Active Points); Activation 14- (-1/2)
2 END


If we converted it to HD v2.28 it would change the modifiers to Naked Modifiers inside the Naked modifier Power and read

Cost 15 Naked Modifier: AP (+1/2); Activation 14- (-1/2) for up to 45 Active Points (15 Active Points) 1 END

I don't think that this is correct (I could be wrong though).

If you build it in HDv2.28 using AP as the Naked mod and Act 14- as the added mod then it reads

Cost 15 Naked Modifier: AP (+1/2) for up to 45 Active Points (22 Active Points); Activation 14- (-1/2) 2 END

Which is the same cost as HD v2.22 and I think the correct cost (The FAQ maybe incorrect in the example used - Steve is looking into it (http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15318) )


There are some interesting aspects to the new way of doing it where in I think it can handle some really complex and weird Naked Advantages - I'm just not sure what those really complex and weird ones are yet to try them out.


Nightfox

[Simon]

The Naked Modifiers button will assign the actual Modifiers that define the Naked Modifier Power. The Add Modifiers button will assign Modifiers which modify the Naked Modifier itself (and not the power that it works on).

Frex: AOE (up to 6" radius), OIF (wand of bitchiness)

The AOE is the Naked Modifier. The OIF is a Modifier which affects the Naked Modifier itself.

[nightfox]

[QUOTE=Simon]The Naked Modifiers button will assign the actual Modifiers that define the Naked Modifier Power. The Add Modifiers button will assign Modifiers which modify the Naked Modifier itself (and not the power that it works on).
QUOTE]


Thanks Simon :)

This clears up the questions I had.

Nightfox