Limitations for Martial Arts?

[Kelian]

Howdy all,

I'm just curious why there is no ability to add limitations to Martial Arts in Hero Designer V2? Is this something that was overlooked, or am I missing something? I've looked all around in the App for a way to enable these, but I am unable to.

I'm running a game where people can get skills via enhancing focii, and want to be able to add martial arts maneuvers and DCs, but I can't currently.

Thanks for any help you can provide!

Kelian

[Derek Hiemforth]

See the Rules FAQ under Martial Arts. Martial Arts are not allowed to have Limitations. It appears that the only way to get HD to allow this is to turn off modifier intelligence.

[Kelian]

Hi Derek,

Thank you for your suggestion. Unfortunately, I had already tried that, with no success.

When using the "Martial Arts" tab, the option to add modifiers isn't even presented. And since Martial Arts doesn't show up in the Powers section, this leaves me sort of without recourse.

I had hoped that I was just missing something. Since I'm the GM, I know I can do this with the pen and paper chars. I was trying out HD V2 to see if it would work before I purchased it. Glad I did, since most skills in the game come through focii, and its a martial-artsy game. :)

Do you, or anyone else, know if theres a way to modify the program files to support this basic functionality?

Thanks again!

Kelian

[Fitz]

Why not just build custom maneuvers which incorporate the limitations you want? It would require some manual arithmetic to get the costing right, but it's not such a huge deal.

It actually hasn't been much of an issue for me since I've been using MarkDoc's martial arts multipower system for my Heroic games for quite a while, so all the limitations and advantages are always available for me. It occurs to me that if I were less lazy and more motivated, I could easily build a reasonably comprehensive prefab for that very purpose..... in fact, perhaps I should purely out of self interest :)

[Kelian]

I actually considered that, but that means when a character gets a DC enhancement, I have to go back and rebuild all of their maneuvers to include that DC, which is more administration than I would like. It will be easier to just not use the character generator, in that case, which is too bad. I really like what I've seen, and its obvious that a ton of work went into it.

If I may ask, where can I find data on this Martial Arts multipower system you're referring to? I did a google on it, but didn't find anything.

I'd much prefer to just see the Martial Arts added to the Powers section of HD, like skills, talents, and perks are, so I, as the GM, can make the decision on appropriateness.

Thank you for your time!

Kelian

[Derek Hiemforth]

When using the "Martial Arts" tab, the option to add modifiers isn't even presented.What version are you using? When I go to the Martial Arts tab and add a maneuver, the Add Modifier button is there just as it should be, both with Modifier Intelligence on and off. If Modifier Intelligence is on, then all Limitations are listed under the "Unavailable Limitations" and I can't add them (because HD is enforcing the "no Limitations on maneuvers" rule). If Modifier Intelligence is off, then all Limitations are listed under "Non-Recommended Limitations", and I can add them to the Maneuver as I wish.

[Derek Hiemforth]

I'd much prefer to just see the Martial Arts added to the Powers section of HD, like skills, talents, and perks are, so I, as the GM, can make the decision on appropriateness.If you want to make the decisions regarding appropriateness, just turn Modifier Intelligence off. Then HD will rely on you to know the rules, rather than trying to enforce them for you. :)

[Killer Shrike]

Try putting them in a list and then adding the Modifiers to the list as Common.

[Kelian]

What version are you using? When I go to the Martial Arts tab and add a maneuver, the Add Modifier button is there just as it should be, both with Modifier Intelligence on and off.

I am using V2.29, at least thats what it says when it starts up, and on the top bar... Hero Designer [v2.29 - interim build]

I was originally working on 2.22, then updated before posting this question, just in case something had been changed.

Kelian

[Derek Hiemforth]

Try putting them in a list and then adding the Modifiers to the list as Common.That won't work either, as long as modifier intelligence is on.

[Kelian]

Try putting them in a list and then adding the Modifiers to the list as Common.

Great idea, one I hadn't even thought of.

When I tried it, I was informed that the maneuver/DC was not allowed to have modifiers assigned to it in its current configuration. :(

This is with the Modifier Intelligence disabled. I checked again, just to be sure.

Is it possible I just have a damaged install of the application and I need to reinstall? If you all can assign modifiers to these and I cannot, I must be missing something here.

Kelian

[Derek Hiemforth]

Okay, try the following step-by-step...

Launch HD
Go to File... Preferences
Go to the Modifier Intelligence tab
Uncheck the box next to "Use Modifier Intelligence" and click Done
Go to File... New Character
Click on the Martial Arts tab
Expand "Hand-to-Hand" in the pane on the right
Double-click on Basic Strike
Click on Add Modifier (if you don't see it, check to see if the window is set to a funny size that's hiding it; it should be there -- I'm using the same version you are)
Click on the "Non-Recommended Limitations" tab.
Double-click on Focus (or whatever Lim. you want) and click OK, then Done, then OK

Does that work?

[Kelian]

Okay, try the following step-by-step...
<snip list>
Does that work?

Ok, followed the steps. The Modifier Intelligence box was already unchecked, so I left it unchecked.

After creating the new character I am indeed able to add modifiers to a maneuver.

I am unable to add modifiers to DCs. They still don't show up.

Well, thats a step in the right direction, anyway.

Would the lack of ability to add them to DCs be considered a bug, then?

Kelian

[Derek Hiemforth]

Would the lack of ability to add them to DCs be considered a bug, then?I wouldn't think so. The Ultimate Martial Artist is pretty explicit in making Limitations on Extra DCs verboten. If you want to add that, you'd probably have to use some kind of custom power. (You might also try adding both the maneuvers and the DCs to a list, and applying a Limitation as a Common Modifier on the list, as Killer Shrike suggested above.)

[Enforcer84]

I thought that Bloodstone, the guy who's gem gives him martial arts skill was still in H5.

Nope it was Chen Kwai. Pg 141 right under the Skills catagory of powers...

[Killer Shrike]

Ok, followed the steps. The Modifier Intelligence box was already unchecked, so I left it unchecked.

After creating the new character I am indeed able to add modifiers to a maneuver.

I am unable to add modifiers to DCs. They still don't show up.

Well, thats a step in the right direction, anyway.

Would the lack of ability to add them to DCs be considered a bug, then?

KelianTo the best of my knowledge Martial Arts DCs cant be modified, and pretty rightfully so IMO -- they are already pretty close to the edge of cheesy efficiency (which isnt to say I dont use them -- Im an old school MA DC abuser from way back :D ).

[Killer Shrike]

I thought that Bloodstone, the guy who's gem gives him martial arts skill was still in H5.

Nope it was Chen Kwai. Pg 141 right under the Skills catagory of powers...
Are his DC's limited?

[Fitz]

If I may ask, where can I find data on this Martial Arts multipower system you're referring to? I did a google on it, but didn't find anything.

It's at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Castle/9529/Gaming_stuff/martialarts.html

[Enforcer84]

Are his DC's limited?
Oddly enough it doesn't say. But UMA says nix on the limited DC's.
Steve also said that limitations on the martial arts maneuvers was a GM call. Default to not allow. So, and I know this would be work, but should not HD allow you to do this? Someone seemed to indicate that it was not allowable in any circumstances.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Steve also said that limitations on the martial arts maneuvers was a GM call. Default to not allow. So, and I know this would be work, but should not HD allow you to do this? Someone seemed to indicate that it was not allowable in any circumstances.By default, HD does not allow Limitations on maneuvers. If you turn off modifier intelligence, then you can apply Limitations to maneuvers. You cannot apply Limitations to Extra DCs under any settings in HD.

[Kelian]

By default, HD does not allow Limitations on maneuvers. If you turn off modifier intelligence, then you can apply Limitations to maneuvers. You cannot apply Limitations to Extra DCs under any settings in HD.

I hate to say this, but I consider this a bug in the program. If I turn off the modifier intelligence, I should be able to do what I desire, at any point. I am, after all, the GM. :)

I don't have UMA, just the base V4 and V5 books, so I'm not privy to whatever it might say.

Thank you all for your insights, though. They are greatly appreciated!

Kelian

[Derek Hiemforth]

I hate to say this, but I consider this a bug in the program. If I turn off the modifier intelligence, I should be able to do what I desire, at any point.I disagree. Hero Designer is a Hero System character creation tool. It has a lot of flexibility, but ultimately, it's for using the Hero System. Once you get too far outside the "normal" Hero System rules (which allowing Limitations on Extra DC's is, IMO), then you have to rely on the "Custom" abilities in HD to get what you want.