Weird thought on a vehicle

[JmOz]

Interesting Idea I had on a vehicle this morning and want to know if this board of enlightened Herodom would allow it, or if it is a no no

Okay, vehicle I have been working on has the characteristics of a certain size, except for one detail, the actual size of the vehicle itself (The actual size is considerably larger). Further more most of the vehicles size is used up by the vehicle itself and is not for passanger use (In otherwords the usable space is similar to again a smaller vehicle)

So would you allow the vehicle to buy the size of the smaller vehicle and then take a Phys Lim to represent it's abnormial size (thus giving it the appropriate DCV penalty) or would you say buy the actual size

[Trebuchet]

I would allow that, provided the player doesn't intend to claim additional mass to increase ramming damage. The way you worded it suggests that is not the case. I see it as analogous to making bigger or smaller characters by using Disads instead of Growth or Shrinking.

There are plenty of other problems with a bulky/oversized vehicle, including less maneuverability in confined spaces and lower DCV. Of course if this is a deep space starship that might not mean much.

[JmOz]

nope, it is actualy the "Fighter" mode of a three form mech, it lacks Str, and Body of it's actual size, and only has about 3 hexes of room (1 for passangers/crew, 2 for storage)

[BobGreenwade]

I'd say this sounds like a perfectly reasonable construct. Of course, the final ruling would be up to the GM.

[nblade]

I'd have to say buy its actual size. I've not found anywhere that claims that the size of the vehicle is just for carrying people. What I might allow is a small disadvantage (likely no more than say 5pts), to say that it has limited passenger space, but I not sure.


Maybe if I understood what you meant by "characteristics of a certain size", that would help me understand what you are doing. So if you could please explain a bit more.

[JmOz]

If you were to look at the mechanics of the vehicle, that is to say how it is to function in game (as far as Str, body, and Usuable Space) it functions as a size much less than the physical size of the vehicle in question. I don't have the sheet in front of me right now, but it is as if it is size 6 EXCEPT that it suffers the DCV penalty, wights as much as, and any other negative thing of as if it was a Size 9, so the idea is that it should only be bought up to a size 6 and then take the other negatives as a Phys Disad (the worse DCV, weight, etc...)

[nblade]

Originally posted by JmOz
If you were to look at the mechanics of the vehicle, that is to say how it is to function in game (as far as Str, body, and Usuable Space) it functions as a size much less than the physical size of the vehicle in question. I don't have the sheet in front of me right now, but it is as if it is size 6 EXCEPT that it suffers the DCV penalty, wights as much as, and any other negative thing of as if it was a Size 9, so the idea is that it should only be bought up to a size 6 and then take the other negatives as a Phys Disad (the worse DCV, weight, etc...)

In that case I would buy it size 9, buy back the STR and BODY to size 6. Then maybe apply a small Phyical Disad for the small usuable space.

[GamePhil]

I have no problem with the idea of buying it as the Disadvantage instead of using the Size Characteristic, and in fact have suggested similar for an alternative to the standard Vehicle rules. However:

1. If it does not have enough Strength to lift itself it will not be able to move: take a look at the effects of Negative Strength in the Characteristics section near the beginning of the book.

2. It should have Knockback Resistance and Body in accordance with its mass.

Of course you can always waive those points if it makes sense to do so, but from your description I wouldn't think that would be the case.

[Toadmaster]

Not sure I understand the question but I think if I do, I think you are saying you have a large bulky vehicle with small useble space, less carrying capacity etc. If I were building a vehicle which did not match the intended size and effect I think I'd go with the closest size to the real size and buy or sell the stats until they matched my vision of it. YOu also mentioned it being part of a multi form vehicle (assuming Robotech mecha or transformer?) what about buying certain stats with the lim only in X forms?

[BobGreenwade]

Originally posted by GamePhil
I have no problem with the idea of buying it as the Disadvantage instead of using the Size Characteristic, and in fact have suggested similar for an alternative to the standard Vehicle rules. However:

1. If it does not have enough Strength to lift itself it will not be able to move: take a look at the effects of Negative Strength in the Characteristics section near the beginning of the book.

2. It should have Knockback Resistance and Body in accordance with its mass.

Of course you can always waive those points if it makes sense to do so, but from your description I wouldn't think that would be the case. 1. Not necessarily; Vehicles already operate with many rules differently than do regular characters. For example, Vehicle STR and Movement do not cost END, and all Movement has Turn Mode. Also regular characters do not have to contend with a Size characteristic. A Vehicle that sells back some of its STR may still be able to move normally -- since neither FREd nor TUV say so specifically, that call would be up to the GM (I'd rule in favor of it myself), with the only restrictions being the amount of cargo it can carry, the amount of damage it does when ramming or sideswiping, and the amount of "pull" it has.

2. The Knockback Resistance and BODY can be purchased easily enough. In fact, the best Special Effect for KBR on Vehicles (IMO) is increased mass. The BODY may or may not be bought up; again, lowered BODY on a Vehicle may represent relative delicacy, poor construction, etc.

This is not to say that the alternate approach (buying the Size up to full and reducing other Characteristics and such) is wrong; it all depends on what dynamic the designer and GM prefer.

Bear in mind, however, that buying up Size and selling back the STR from Size has a net cost of zero points.

[GamePhil]

Like I said, waive if appropriate. I've been developing along almost exactly the same lines (briefly) for a project I'm working on.

However, I would be leary of waiving the rules for Negative Characteristics just for Vehicles, and even more so for one Vehicle and not others: I'd remove those guidelines from the game completely, or apply them to everyone and everthing that didn't have a Power to counter it.

But, whatever works, as usual. And I am certainly not one to argue with Bob about Vehicle rules. Oh, wait, I am. Good book, by the way.

[BobGreenwade]

Originally posted by GamePhil
Like I said, waive if appropriate. I've been developing along almost exactly the same lines (briefly) for a project I'm working on.

However, I would be leary of waiving the rules for Negative Characteristics just for Vehicles, and even more so for one Vehicle and not others: I'd remove those guidelines from the game completely, or apply them to everyone and everthing that didn't have a Power to counter it. I'd still apply the Negative Characteristics guidelines to Vehicles in most cases (particularly BODY, but also DEX and the optional Characteristics, and certainly for cases where the Characteristics are lowered via Adjustment Powers). Since STR already works differently, however, I think this one aspect of Negatives should be waived for them.
But, whatever works, as usual. And I am certainly not one to argue with Bob about Vehicle rules. Oh, wait, I am. Good book, by the way. Thanks. And argue with me all you want -- I'm as capable as anyone else of writing stupid stuff (though I did have Steve running interference for me on this one).

[BasilDrag]

Originally posted by JmOz
If you were to look at the mechanics of the vehicle, that is to say how it is to function in game (as far as Str, body, and Usuable Space) it functions as a size much less than the physical size of the vehicle in question. I don't have the sheet in front of me right now, but it is as if it is size 6 EXCEPT that it suffers the DCV penalty, wights as much as, and any other negative thing of as if it was a Size 9, so the idea is that it should only be bought up to a size 6 and then take the other negatives as a Phys Disad (the worse DCV, weight, etc...)

TUV, p.8, right-hand column, 2nd & 3rd paragraphs cover this. I would say, buy it as Size 6, and merely say it masses circa 50 tons. No need for more.

If the different DCV is important, "buy" the difference as a Power (CSL's, 5 pt, used for DCV) at a negative amount.

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