Autobots and TUV

[Sketchpad]

Okay ... I've been looking at the Ultimate Vehicle and thinking of running a Transformers game ... I'd like to use the rules in TUV and am wondering what people thought about it?

[Dust Raven]

It's an interesting take, from what I can remember (I haven't replaced my destroyed copy yet). To be honest, I was a bit confused by them, but if I understood correctly the systems works and fits well with the rest of the rules.

Of course, there are other ways to simulate transforming vehicles, but for jets and trucks that transform into anthroporphic mecha the rules in the TUV should work fine.

One question though... Are the vehicles the characters are just vehicles the characters pilot? In the Transformers cartoon, each "transformer" was its own sentient being, and probably should be build using normal character construction rules.

[JmOz]

If you are going for the transformers as robots they should be built as characters (maybe as automations depending on how you want to handle stun). There are some rules in TUV about living vehicles that could be useful.

[Dust Raven]

If you are going for the transformers as robots they should be built as characters (maybe as automations depending on how you want to handle stun). There are some rules in TUV about living vehicles that could be useful.
And extra Stats to make them sentient as well. If you go this route, don't worry about the STUN as long as all the player characters are built that way.

[Dr. Anomaly]

Actually, ignoring Stun would be counter-genre. There are plenty of examples in the animated cartoons of Transformers being stunned...ranging from daze to actually "knocked out" and only regaining conciousness later.

[CrosshairCollie]

Actually, ignoring Stun would be counter-genre. There are plenty of examples in the animated cartoons of Transformers being stunned...ranging from daze to actually "knocked out" and only regaining conciousness later.

Yeah ... I think you'd have to build them with Multiform (robot-vehicle, though some might have more than two forms, like the Triplechangers or Sixshot). The humanshape form would be a basic character; the vehicle form (for those that are vehicles, as opposed to ones that turned into animals or weapons) would need to have movement and possibly defenses bought Useable By Others (passengers). You wouldn't need this in the humanshape form because, to my knowledge, the Transformers were incapable of carrying human passengers in their bodies in robot form ... barring excessive modified engineering, like that which created the Headmasters.

[BobGreenwade]

Actually, ignoring Stun would be counter-genre. There are plenty of examples in the animated cartoons of Transformers being stunned...ranging from daze to actually "knocked out" and only regaining conciousness later. This is actually "counter-source" rather than "counter-genre," but the point is quite valid -- hence the "Living Being" discussion on TUV page 7. :)

On the other hand, if the entire discussion of sentient vehicles in the book was initially inspired by a single episode of the Transformers cartoon, in which four of the Autobots were captured by Cobra, their minds removed and placed into human bodies, and the robot bodies used for Cobra's own ends (with members of the GI Joe team also making a guest appearance, of course). That started me thinking of the Transformers less as sentient robots and more as sentient vehicles. Of course the rules also apply just as well to KITT or the Andromeda Ascendant, but that was the starting point.

It may be more true to source to build the robots as regular characters, and use Multiform to build the vehicle forms as sentient vehicles.

That said, if it was me as GM I'd have all PCs and robot NPCs built as sentient Vehicles unless I was using the actual Transformers world-setting.

[Dr. Anomaly]

This is actually "counter-source" rather than "counter-genre,"
:hail: You are quite correct!

Hey, off hand I don't know because I've never checked...but is there anything stopping you from designing one of a character's Multiforms using a different template (like, oh, 'Vehicle') instead of a standard 'Character' template?

In other words, could a Character have a Multiform into a Vehcile or a Base? (Metroplex, Fortress Maximus, Trypticon, etc. etc.) I'd expect that of couse you wouldn't do a (points/5)/5 because IIRC Steve has said that in the case of doing something like Summoning a vehicle, you only divide the cost by 5 once.

Of course, you'd want the Vehicle to be sentient, so either you'd need an AI or you'd need to add INT and EGO to the vehicle, but that would solve a lot of problems with having to buy LS and Defenses "Usable By Other" for a Character who just looked like a vehicle...

[Fenixcrest]

If you wanna make it really weird, you could build the Transformers themselves as vehicles, and have the character be the "Spark" ("Lasercore in G1, I believe), the quantum-computer system that represents the robot's soul, as it were. Just build the characters as "computers" that don't get divided by 5, and then build the bodies as standard transforming vehicles.

[BobGreenwade]

Hey, off hand I don't know because I've never checked...but is there anything stopping you from designing one of a character's Multiforms using a different template (like, oh, 'Vehicle') instead of a standard 'Character' template?

In other words, could a Character have a Multiform into a Vehcile or a Base? Certainly that could be done. In fact...
It may be more true to source to build the robots as regular characters, and use Multiform to build the vehicle forms as sentient vehicles....a large chunk of text related to that, originally inspired by the cartoon Teen Turbo, was cut out of the manscript for TUV.

Of course, Steve's the final arbiter on such rules from an "official" standpoint, but as far as I can see if the GM okays it then it's fine.

[Dr. Anomaly]

I think I remember that show...hot and cold water caused him to change from a kid to a car and back?

[Fenixcrest]

I think I remember that show...hot and cold water caused him to change from a kid to a car and back?

I thought it was stress... maybe you're right, though...

[JayH]

Speaking of multiformer mechs, I'm confused about the cost. In TUV under SHAPE ALTERATION on page 107 (2nd paragraph) it says, "The cost for the alternate forms depends on their total cost, not their cost divided by 5." Wah??? That got me all worked up.

In the example starting at the top of pg 111 they use Multiform to buy the other forms and that sure looks like a way to pay for them as 1/5 to me. I wish they had spent a couple more lines in the text explaining the cost. The character buying the vehicle gets the powers in the alternate forms for (1/5)/5, or much less for the forms using the x2 forms for +5 pts. And that's fine by me, if that's how it is. But what does the line quoted from the text mean? Was there fear of players paying ((1/5)/5)/5 pts?

Am I looking at something wrong? :think:



my math
396 pt in most expensive multiform/5 = 79pts,
plus 5 pts for x2 forms (less than or equal to points in most expensive form) = 84pts,
divide by 2.75 (limitations: 1 base + 1 1/4 Extra Time + 1/2 Cost END) = 30 pts
(I actually get 31, because it's just over 30.5).

[BobGreenwade]

Speaking of multiformer mechs, I'm confused about the cost. In TUV under SHAPE ALTERATION on page 107 (2nd paragraph) it says, "The cost for the alternate forms depends on their total cost, not their cost divided by 5." Wah??? That got me all worked up.

In the example starting at the top of pg 111 they use Multiform to buy the other forms and that sure looks like a way to pay for them as 1/5 to me. I wish they had spent a couple more lines in the text explaining the cost. The character buying the vehicle gets the powers in the alternate forms for (1/5)/5, or much less for the forms using the x2 forms for +5 pts. And that's fine by me, if that's how it is. But what does the line quoted from the text mean? Was there fear of players paying ((1/5)/5)/5 pts?

Am I looking at something wrong? :think:



my math
396 pt in most expensive multiform/5 = 79pts,
plus 5 pts for x2 forms (less than or equal to points in most expensive form) = 84pts,
divide by 2.75 (limitations: 1 base + 1 1/4 Extra Time + 1/2 Cost END) = 30 pts
(I actually get 31, because it's just over 30.5). You're interpreting all of it correctly, including the reason for the quoted passage. :)

[Madstone]

I think I remember that show...hot and cold water caused him to change from a kid to a car and back?

You're thinking of Ranma 1/2, a (wonderful) cartoon series where Ranma turns into a girl when he touches cold water, and turns back into a boy with exposure to hot water. It was his curse.

His father had the better curse though...he turned into a giant panda.

[Dr. Anomaly]

Yeah, Crisis, I believe you and Fenixcrest are both correct...in the case of Turbo Teen it was stress, and the hot water / cold water thing was from Ranma 1/2. :)

[BobGreenwade]

Yeah, Crisis, I believe you and Fenixcrest are both correct...in the case of Turbo Teen it was stress, and the hot water / cold water thing was from Ranma 1/2. :) My memory is that Turbo Teen (or Teen Turbo, as I remember him) changed into a car when wet, and back into a human when dry -- which may have caused the confusion with Ranma 1/2. I also think that the show went to a second season in which something other than water caused him to change (probably suggested by viewers wondering how the heck he could bathe or even drink if just touching water turned him into a car), and this may be where the stress idea came from.

In any event, I think both this and Transformers are good examples of how a Multiform needn't be of the same entity type as the main form. Perhaps this observation can even show up in 5ER. :D

[Dr. Anomaly]

Hm. I just did a quick web search, which is what I should have done in the first place. The show ran just 12 episodes in 1984; here's the synopsis:

"One stormy night, Bret drove his car & crashed into a laboratory. A mysterious ray caused him to turn into his car. Whenever Bret got hot, he would turn into Turbo Teen. But would turn back to normal if he felt cold. "

[JayH]

Ok, so now I'm working on some Mechs. Two systems I need input on.

1) I want to install a Damage Control System, a la Regeneration. So far it looks like this:

Damage Control: Healing 1 BODY (10 Active Points); Extra Time (Regeneration-Only) 1 Turn (Post-Segment 12) (-1 1/4), Self Only (-1/2)

A Vehicle wouldn't need to buy it 0 END, Persistant, would they? There would just have to be juice in the battery and it wouldn't work if the pilot (or computer pilot) were out of commission (no one to turn it on). Although, that would be nice, it's not like points are a problem.

2) Fire suppression system for the cockpit. I've looked at Suppress, Damage Reduction, Dispel, and Change Environment. Nothing looks right. Do I even need to bother since Safe Environment: Intense Heat is built into the Life Support?

Thanks for your comments. :)

[BobGreenwade]

Ok, so now I'm working on some Mechs. Two systems I need input on.

1) I want to install a Damage Control System, a la Regeneration. So far it looks like this:

Damage Control: Healing 1 BODY (10 Active Points); Extra Time (Regeneration-Only) 1 Turn (Post-Segment 12) (-1 1/4), Self Only (-1/2)

A Vehicle wouldn't need to buy it 0 END, Persistant, would they? There would just have to be juice in the battery and it wouldn't work if the pilot (or computer pilot) were out of commission (no one to turn it on). Although, that would be nice, it's not like points are a problem.

2) Fire suppression system for the cockpit. I've looked at Suppress, Damage Reduction, Dispel, and Change Environment. Nothing looks right. Do I even need to bother since Safe Environment: Intense Heat is built into the Life Support?

Thanks for your comments. :)1) As with any other vehicular equipment, unless you have an Endurance Reserve to operate the damage control system it will need 0 END, Persistent.

2) Life Support (Safe Environment: Intense Heat) does not protect a Vehicle from flame-based damage any more than it would a regular character -- you will need a firefighting system. Dispel vs all fire-based Powers at once is generally the way to go (I don't have my copy of TUV on hand, but you can look up fire-suppression in the index to make sure I'm remembering right).

[CrosshairCollie]

I think I remember that show...hot and cold water caused him to change from a kid to a car and back?

Entering Nitpick Mode!
The show was Turbo Teen, not Teen Turbo, and any extremes of heat or cold caused him to change form (including such things as eating hot peppers). I hate my encyclopedia-of-trivia memory. :)

[JayH]

1) As with any other vehicular equipment, unless you have an Endurance Reserve to operate the damage control system it will need 0 END, Persistent.) Check.



2) Life Support (Safe Environment: Intense Heat) does not protect a Vehicle from flame-based damage any more than it would a regular character -- you will need a firefighting system. Dispel vs all fire-based Powers at once is generally the way to go (I don't have my copy of TUV on hand, but you can look up fire-suppression in the index to make sure I'm remembering right). Genius! Don't know why I didn't look. Dispel it is. Thanks.