Old names?

[tkdguy]

I was thinking of using ancient names of European countries and regions for my campaign. I know a lot of them (Gaul, Iberia, Albion, etc.). Are there any less commonly known names for European regions? Especially Italy, Germany, and eastern Europe.

[Fitz]

Etruria was sort of northern Italy -- where the Etruscans came from. Hispania was Spain, and was bisected by the Tarraconensis. Portugal was more or less Lusitania. Southern Spain was Baetica. Present day France and Belgium were split into dozens of tribal lands, the most prominent being Aquitania, the Narbonensis, Lugdunens, Belgica. Likewise Germany (Germania) was made up of lands like Rhaetia, Noricum, Pannonia, Germania Superior. Ireland was Hibernia, Scotland was Caledonia. On the coast of the North Sea (Mare Germanicus) were the Frisii, the Chauci, the Baiaui, the Saxones, the Teutones, and the Anglii -- all Germanic peoples.

All of this is Europe as the Romans of Augustus' time knew it, and of course there's a lot more if you want any specific bits.

[tkdguy]

Thanks Fitz, those help. Any later names before the countries took their current names? I know Scotland was also known as Dalriada and Alba for instance. Any other regional names around?

The reason is I want to use old names for an alternate Earth. I'm thinking of using the Warhammer FRP map, but I don't care for the names too much.

[Fitz]

Well, that's a sticky one since every linguistic group has had its own names for everyone else (and themselves, of course).

Let's take a look at the British Isles as an example:

Britain was made up of separate kingdoms up until about the time of Alfred the Great: Wessex, Sussex, Kent, East Anglia, Mercia, Northumbria.

Wales as a whole was called Cymryu by the Welsh, but it too was split into Gwynedd, Powys, Deheubarth, Dyfed, and some minors like Gwent and Morgannwg.

Scotland consisted of the kingdoms of Galloway, Strathclyde, Lothian, Bernicia, Alban, Moray, Dalriada, Caithness plus the Kingdom of the Isles and the Orkneys.

Ireland (Erin or Hibernia) consisted of Ulster, Connaught, Midhe (Meathe), Leinster and Munster.

All of these were separate sovereign kingdoms, and just to complicate matters, some were Norse kingdoms. And of course this is just a slice of time we're talking about here; many of these kingdoms rose and fell over the course of a realtively short space of time. I'm sure there were others that I've forgotten about too.

The situation on the continent of Europe was similar -- for example, the area we now know as Germany consisted of over 300 separate sovereign kingdoms in the thirteenth century.

[tkdguy]

That's just it. I need names that are authentic but obscure enough to sound different. I don't specifically have a problem calling France "Bretonnia" per se (as it's called in Warhammer), but that would confuse the hell out of some of my players.

If anyone knows of any good books or website about these things, please let me know. I'd appreciate it.

[Markdoc]

If you want obscure-but-reminscent names, I suggest that you avoid the actual historical names and make up your own.

No, really, it's easy! :D

Grab an atlas and find a small obscure village and use the name for that as a basis. For example, Brettonia, which you mentioned, comes from Brittany, which comes from the old name Lesser Britain, which comes in turn from the Roman name Brittania. For example (calls up map of Brittany on the web and points finger at the screen randomly) Hmm. The town of Ager. Ageronia? Sounds silly - and not very French. Hmm. Aquitaine, Poitaine - how about Ageraine?

and so on..

cheers, Mark

[tkdguy]

I've tried that. I'm not entirely happy with the result. I'm aware of many of the old names and connections, but so far, I haven't found anything to my satisfaction. Maybe I'm just being picky.

[tkdguy]

Okay, here's an idea. I'll put it here instead of starting a new thread, since they were related. I was thinking of using the Old World map with some 7th Sea additions. And perhaps some of Kara Tur for the Asian countries. I'll use important NPCs from 7th Sea and WFRP. How does that sound?

[Lord Liaden]

Sorry I didn't pipe in sooner, tkdguy - I've been away from the boards for a bit. This sort of thing is actually a hobby of mine. So, off the top of my head:

In the classical Greek era, Greece itself was known as Hellas. Two prominent peninsular territories were Attica (dominated by Athens), and Peloponnesus (controlled by Sparta). Other neighbouring states included Macedon (Macedonia) and Thrace. The Greek colonies on the western Anatolian peninsula (modern Turkey) were collectively known as Ionia. Other notable Anatolian kingdoms were Lydia and Phrygia, not to mention ancient Hatti, the realm of the Hittites.

In Imperial Roman times, the island of Sicily was called Trinacria. The central Italian plain on which Rome was built was called Latium, and the region of the Samnite peoples in the south was Samnium. The fertile southwestern part of the peninsula containing Naples was called Campania. (Another poster already mentioned Etruria in the north.) The region around Milan was Cisalpine Gaul (to distinguish from "Transalpine Gaul" across the Alps), while modern Switzerland was the province of Helvetia. The most notable post-Roman Italian kingdom was Lombardy of the Teutonic Lombards, until conquered by Charlemagne.

The northern coast of Algeria was the province of Numidia, and much of modern Rumania was the territory of Dacia. The western Balkan peninsula was called Illyria, and Hungary was part of the province of Pannonia.

Roman Gaul was divided into Gallia Belgica, Gallia Lugdunensis, and Aquitania. Post-Roman Frankish kingdoms included Austrasia, Bourgogne and Neustria.

Roman Spain was divided into the provinces of Lusitania, Baetica and Tarraconensis. In post-Roman Spain, the Visigoths established the kingdom of Toulouse. After the Moorish conquest Christian Spain was confined to the kingdom of Asturias in the north. Between the Moorish era and Spanish unification, kingdoms on the Iberian peninsula included Castilla (Castile), Leon, Navarre and Aragon.

After the collapse of Charlemagne's empire, Germany was dominated by five independent duchies: Franconia, Swabia, Bavaria, Saxony, and Lotharingia (Lorraine).

As for Eastern Europe: "Russia" is derived from the Nordic name Rossiya, "land of the Rus" - the land was later simply called "Rus." Moscow's prominence came with the rise of the duchy of Muscovy. Other notable historical regions include the Czech lands of Bohemia and Moravia (parts of the modern Czech Republic), and Silesia (now part of modern Poland).

You seem to have the British Isles pretty well taken care of by others. ;) I'll see if I can dredge some others out of my memory. I hope these help you.

[tkdguy]

Thank you, Lord Liaden; you're a lif saver. I used to know most of these names, but it has been so long since I studied ancient history, I've all but forgotten them.

Thanks again, to all of you for helping me out.

[tkdguy]

Hey, I just remembered a site with historical maps, some of which have the
old names. Here it is:

Historical Maps (http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/index.html)