Some Package Deals I need help on.

[Enforcer84]

Okay, I am trying to make a world based on the video game triligy Suikoden.
Hero system is probably the best way to do this as the magic system, "castle building", and skills elements all can be fairly easily done in hero terms.

that being said, I'd like some help making the various packages that mix and match to be the skills base for characters.

so far the character types are:

Archer
Engineer (Steampunkish inventors)
Hunter
Knight
>>Heavy Knight
>>Regional Knight
Mage
Martial Artist
Mercenary
Ninja
Ranger
Rogue
Sailor
Strategist
Warrior
Wizard

What kind of skills would you give a Strategist? This is what I have so far.

<font size=+1><b></b></font>

Player:




<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right"><b>Cost  </b></td><td><b>Skill</b></td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">  </td><td>Military Strategist Package </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>1) Analyze: Combat 11- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">4  </td><td>2) KS: Military Strategy (INT-based) 12- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">2  </td><td>3) WF: Common Melee Weapons </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>4) Tactics 11- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>5) PS: Strategist (INT-based) 11- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>6) KS: Military World (INT-based) 11- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>7) KS: Military Insignea & Colors (INT-based) 11- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">  </td><td><b>Choose 3 of the Following </b></td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>1) Bribery 11- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>2) Bureaucratics 11- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>3) Conversation 11- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>4) Cryptography 11- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>5) Deduction 11- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>6) High Society 11- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>7) Interrogation 11- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>8) Oratory 11- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>9) Persuasion 11- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>10) Seduction 11- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>11) KS: Choice (INT-based) 11- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>12) AK: Choice 12- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>13) Language: Afrikaans: Completely Fluent, w/Accent  </td></tr></table><b>Skills Cost: </b>60

[Markdoc]

I'd dump the Weapon familiarity - there's no reason that they can't buy it if they want to do weapons training, but I can't see it as compulsory. Many fine strategists (Bishop Absalom or Jan Hus, for example) probably knew enough about swords to work out which end to hold, but weren't fighters.

I'd add in some options on economics - understanding money flow has always been a hallmark of good Strategists. If you can choke your enemies means of production while keeping your alive, your odds of winning are greatly enhanced.

Finally - in game terms, how is PS: strategist, different from KS: Military strategy. I know the difference between a PS and a KS - but I am not sure of the utility of having two skills that function essentially identically.

cheers, Mark

[Lisa Nadazdy]

I'd keep the WF. WF doesn't mean real competance, merely operating knowledge.

[Enforcer84]

What about Knighthood?

that's also a sticking point.
5 pts for being knighted
2 KS: Codes & Traditions
3 High Society
3 Riding
1 TF: Riding beast of choice
1 WF: Lances
2 WF Common Melee
2 WF Common Missile

anything else?

[Lisa Nadazdy]

KS: Heraldry, depending on how pervasive it might be in your campaign.

[Enforcer84]

good point. I think that everyone in the suikoden world tends to know who everyone else is, especially the more powerful armies.

[JohnTaber]

How about a KS in his favorite target? KS: Fortifications? Does your game require Systems Op for the control of siege weapons? What about Fam w Siege Weapons? Depends on what you are trying to do...

[Enforcer84]

Just got the first two Mangas for Suikoden III and now I have returned re-invigored!

Let's See... Now that I have Fantasy Hero...

We have:
Alchemist (FH)
Archer (FH)
Assassin (FH)
Barbarian (FH)
Bard (FH)
Bounty Hunter (FH)
Craftsman
Fighters
>> Light Warrior (FH)
>> Heavy Warrior (FH)
>> Martial Artists (FH)
>>>>Commander (FH)
>>>>Knight (FH)
Mariner (FH)
Merchant (FH)
Ninja (NH)
Noble (FH)
Priests
>> Contemplative (FH)
>> Crusader (FH)
>> Druid (FH)
>> Monk (FH)
>> Shaman (FH)
Ranger (FH)
Rogue (FH)
Strategist (Mine)
Tinker (Mine)
Wizards
>> Witch (FH)
>> Wizard (FH)

Heck I don't have to make anyone... :)

The various Peoples are

Elves (FH)
Dwarves (FH)
Kobolds (Dog People, I got it)
Lizard Clan (FH)
Duck Clan (Mine)
The rest of the citizens in the Suikoden world are Human, however their environments, homelands, and customs differentiate them.

[Enforcer84]

Here's the Tinker Package
<font size=+1><b></b></font>


<table border="0" cellpadding="0"><tr><td align="right"><b>Cost </b></td><td><b>Power</b></td><td align="right"><b>END</b></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">18 </td><td><b><i>Gadgets: </i></b>VPP (Gadget Pool), 15 base + 3 control cost, (22 Active Points); VPP Can Only Be Changed Between Adventures (-1/2); all slots OAF (-1) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">35 </td><td><b><i>Main Gadget : </i></b>Custom Power (35 Active Points) [<b>Notes:</b> This is the big one. The design that this tinker is known for. It could be anything from a firearm to a robot made out of whicker baskets.] </td><td valign="top" align="right">3</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">5 </td><td><b><i>Luck favors the fool: </i></b>Luck 1d6 </td><td valign="top" align="right">0</td></tr></table><b>Powers Cost:</b> 58


<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right"><b>Cost </b></td><td><b>Skill</b></td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3 </td><td>Deduction 11- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3 </td><td>Demolitions 11- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3 </td><td>Inventor 11- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3 </td><td>KS: Inventors "World" 11- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3 </td><td>KS: Man-made wonders 11- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">4 </td><td>Language: Choose one (Idiomatic, native accent) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3 </td><td>Mechanics 11- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right"> </td><td><b>Choose 3 Skills from this list</b> </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3 </td><td>1) Concealment 11- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3 </td><td>2) Criminology 11- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3 </td><td>3) Forgery 11- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3 </td><td>4) Lockpicking 11- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3 </td><td>5) SS: Players Choice 12- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3 </td><td>6) Security Systems 11- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3 </td><td>7) Sleight Of Hand 11- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">2 </td><td>8) WF: Common Melee Weapons </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3 </td><td>9) Weaponsmith 11- </td></tr></table><b>Skills Cost: </b>48




<b>Total Character Cost:</b> 106

[Enforcer84]

and the Military Strategist:

<font size=+1><b></b></font>




<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right"><b>Cost  </b></td><td><b>Skill</b></td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Analyze: Combat 11- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">4  </td><td>KS: Military Strategy 12- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>KS: Military Insignea & Colors 11- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>KS: Military World 11- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>PS: Strategist 11- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Tactics 11- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">  </td><td>Choose 3 of the Following </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>1) Bribery 11- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>2) Bureaucratics 11- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>3) Conversation 11- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>4) Cryptography 11- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>5) Deduction 11- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>6) High Society 11- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>7) Interrogation 11- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>8) Oratory 11- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>9) Persuasion 11- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>10) Seduction 11- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>11) KS: Choice 11- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>12) AK: Choice 12- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>13) Language: Afrikaans (Completely Fluent, w/Accent) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>14) WF: Choice of 3pts worth </td></tr></table><b>Skills Cost: </b>61




<b>Total Character Cost:</b> 61

<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right"><b>Val  </b></td><td><b>Disadvantages</b></td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">5  </td><td>Rivalry: Professional (Other Strategists; Rival is As Powerful; Seek to Outdo, Embarrass, or Humiliate Rival; Rival Aware of Rivalry) </td></tr></table>
<b>Disadvantage Points:</b> 5

[chiralman]

The various Peoples are

Elves (FH)
Dwarves (FH)
Kobolds (Dog People, I got it)
Lizard Clan (FH)
Duck Clan (Mine)
The rest of the citizens in the Suikoden world are Human, however their environments, homelands, and customs differentiate them.[/QUOTE]

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Duck Clan? (snicker) All I can hear is King Arthur answering Sir Bedamir:
"What else floats?"
"A DUCK!" (with conviction)

Sorry, I know I'm not helping. Carry on.

[Xiawarr]

[Duck Clan? (snicker) All I can hear is King Arthur answering Sir Bedamir:
"What else floats?"
"A DUCK!" (with conviction)

Sorry, I know I'm not helping. Carry on.[/QUOTE]

Ah... but Ducks are a venerable rpg convention. They were originally included in Runequest 1st Edition as a PC race. Do you ever remember seeing an old Judge's Guild module called "Duck Tower"? It was for Runequest. Scan E-bay if you want to get a little more info.

RPG trivia lesson over. ;)

[UltraRob]

Here's the Tinker Package
<font size=+1><b></b></font>


<table border="0" cellpadding="0"><tr><td align="right"><b>Cost </b></td><td><b>Power</b></td><td align="right"><b>END</b></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">18 </td><td><b><i>Gadgets: </i></b>VPP (Gadget Pool), 15 base + 3 control cost, (22 Active Points); VPP Can Only Be Changed Between Adventures (-1/2); all slots OAF (-1) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">35 </td><td><b><i>Main Gadget : </i></b>Custom Power (35 Active Points) [<b>Notes:</b> This is the big one. The design that this tinker is known for. It could be anything from a firearm to a robot made out of whicker baskets.] </td><td valign="top" align="right">3</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">5 </td><td><b><i>Luck favors the fool: </i></b>Luck 1d6 </td><td valign="top" align="right">0</td></tr></table><b>Powers Cost:</b> 58


<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right"><b>Cost </b></td><td><b>Skill</b></td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3 </td><td>Deduction 11- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3 </td><td>Demolitions 11- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3 </td><td>Inventor 11- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3 </td><td>KS: Inventors "World" 11- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3 </td><td>KS: Man-made wonders 11- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">4 </td><td>Language: Choose one (Idiomatic, native accent) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3 </td><td>Mechanics 11- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right"> </td><td><b>Choose 3 Skills from this list</b> </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3 </td><td>1) Concealment 11- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3 </td><td>2) Criminology 11- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3 </td><td>3) Forgery 11- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3 </td><td>4) Lockpicking 11- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3 </td><td>5) SS: Players Choice 12- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3 </td><td>6) Security Systems 11- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3 </td><td>7) Sleight Of Hand 11- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">2 </td><td>8) WF: Common Melee Weapons </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3 </td><td>9) Weaponsmith 11- </td></tr></table><b>Skills Cost: </b>48

<b>Total Character Cost:</b> 106


HA! ^__^ I have to say I like this package! I can really visuallize what creative PCs will do to make their "signature gadget", and it has a lot of flavor potential as well. ^_^ Good work!

Rob

[UltraRob]

Oh, although I know you must know about this already...

http://www.suikosource.com/history/

Contains an amazing sourcebook of history, geography, characters, and pretty much everything else regarding the SuiKoDen setting...Heck, a GM could literallly just use this to run even if they never touched the original video games.

Click on Characters, go to the alphabetical listings and click on the tiny pictures to get big and really cool pics of many characters suitable for any Fantasy RPG art purposes. Now if only this site had maps...

A continental map with clickable locations can be found here:

http://www.suikox.com/geo.html

And, in case you need more info about the Runes and good info lists of the many kinds of runes, go here:

http://spores.net/suikoden/suikframe.html

Actually, this Rune system reminds me a lot of the Magic System Killer Shrike just posted in a lot of ways. You might consider using his system to represent the runes in fact, or a modified version thereof.

Good luck!
Rob

[Blue Jogger]

Here's a Package Deal for Small, Weak Creatures (kobold, gnolls, goblins, bugbears, etc...)

-10 STR ............................ -10
-5 BODY ........................... -10
-5 PRE ............................... -5
-2" Run .............................. -4
Physical Lim: Small .............. -10

+3 DCV (Short & Tricky) ........ 15
+2 to Stealth, Concealment & Shadowing
........................................... 6

Options:
Nightvision ........................... 5
-2 DCV in bright sunlight ........ -5
1/2 D6K Bite......................... 10

[Enforcer84]

Oh, although I know you must know about this already...

http://www.suikosource.com/history/

Contains an amazing sourcebook of history, geography, characters, and pretty much everything else regarding the SuiKoDen setting...Heck, a GM could literallly just use this to run even if they never touched the original video games.

Click on Characters, go to the alphabetical listings and click on the tiny pictures to get big and really cool pics of many characters suitable for any Fantasy RPG art purposes. Now if only this site had maps...

A continental map with clickable locations can be found here:

http://www.suikox.com/geo.html

And, in case you need more info about the Runes and good info lists of the many kinds of runes, go here:

http://spores.net/suikoden/suikframe.html

Actually, this Rune system reminds me a lot of the Magic System Killer Shrike just posted in a lot of ways. You might consider using his system to represent the runes in fact, or a modified version thereof.

Good luck!
Rob
Thanks for the links UltraRob! A fan?
The maps were awesome.

[Enforcer84]

BTW, has anyone read the Suikoden III mangas yet (2 are out currently), they're pretty good...

[UltraRob]

Thanks for the links UltraRob! A fan?
The maps were awesome.

No prob. ^_^
Although I was unable to find a good old fashioned map that you can print out and use, which annoys me. That clickable one is a start, though. Gives a good sense of general geography, although I'm still not sure if it's a continent or a penninsula. Looks like a Penninsula, Korea in fact.
Actually, no, I'm not a fan of the SuiKoDen RPG, but since you posted this I did get curious about the setting and went looking. I thought I would share my research results, although I do have to say the setting does seem pretty cool. I'd almost be tempted to use it myself. :D

Rob

[Enforcer84]

The Backstory is great, and for two games they managed to maintain the idea that these games were more political intrigue and "in country" rather than a world spanning epic (a la final fantasy) so much of the world map is incomplete. The Rune Magic is easy to deal with, the "True Sorcery" introduced in the third game is simpler to deal with as it seems to be standard fantasy magic.
I think I will use "Talents" in addition to "Rune Fragments" for non mage abilities.

Though many hate those types of games (Consul RPG's) the Suikoden games add tactical battles, recruitment, castle buiding, tight storytelling, good music, and enough side quests and easter eggs for anyone.

I eagerly await #4 but it breaks tradition by going backwards in time...I also heard that the main developer of the series left Konami midway through the third game so the story may never be completed "Correctly"