Sci-Fi Game or Porno Flick?

[verbosity]

Being that HERO has such an intelligent character generation system and such a capable gaming engine, why is it the books themselves have such stale and unenticing names?

- The HERO System, 5th Edition
- Star Hero
- Fantasy Hero

Fantasy Hero? Wasn't Traci Lords in that one? It sounds like a porno.

Champions and Dark Champions are fine names. Champions original softback book is what lured me in. Fortunately the creaters didn't insist on calling them "Superhero Hero" and "Dark Superhero Hero". As a newcomer, would I have bought "Fantasy Hero" without having first known the gaming engine? Not a chance. I'd have looked right next to it and seen something called "Dungeons and Dragons" and thought, "Wow. That sounds way cooler."

I bring it up for this reason. I am collecting a gaming group now. I can probably sell them on Champions, I just won't mention it is really "The HERO System, 5th Edition" as that name just sounds bland. (Advanced D&D sounds so much better than D&D Second Edition, as does Windows 2000 over Windows 4.0) You see, my players are teens and have not role-played before except for a bit of "Lord of The Rings" (cool name). They loved the LOTR pencil and paper RPG it and want to try more pencil and paper RPGs, but as computer users they are used to exciting names like "Armored Core", "Devil May Cry", "Kingdom Hearts", and "Final Fantasy". (Okay, I'd admit Final Fantasy sounds like a prono flick too....) No matter how much I explain to them that "Star Hero" is likely a superior game to "Illuminati", "Disciples of Cthulhu", "Forgotten Futures", "Alternate Earths", "Cyberpunk", or "Battletech", the latter just have more mystery and allure. They sound like the real thing. They may not be superior in reality, but any newbie is going to choose one of those over something called "Star Hero", a name I'd expect to see in the clearance bin.

As a former manager of a movie cinema, I am convinced that a good movie title can bring an audience in. In initial market research, a movie studio may test out the same fim with several titles and see to which an audience most responds. With the exception of sequels, the title is critical. And unless HERO is content to let its "sequels" live off of the fans from prior versions, won't it need to make it's products sound like quality products? What if "Star Wars" had been called "Galactic Battle", "Space Alliance", "Luke Versus the Man in Black" or "The Jedi Who Made Out With His Sister"? (Okay, so the last one would kill in Tennessee, but still....)

It makes me think of a stereotypical genius trait. Geniuses have a tendency to be brilliant in an uncommon way or in an uncommon area of life, while being wholly clueless in common areas of life that most people freely understand and take for granted. I worked for a guy that owned about 6 businesses and was the most insightful and intellectual person I may have ever met. His frailty was that his mind was so logical that he couldn't keep employees. He treated them far too logically, i.e. - "Why should I thank him for doing that? I pay him to do that." Yet people aren't logical. We need to be treated according to our personalities and emotions.

And speaking of emotions, is the name "Star Hero" really going to get someone charged up to spend $30.00 and learn 300 pages of rules?

[Toadmaster]

There may be some truth to what you say, but do you really think that someone who would plop down $30-$40 for a game because it has a cool name or pretty pictures is going to take the time to learn HERO's rules? If the only way gamers buy games is on the internet or from TV commercials Fantasy HERO might not do so well, but considering that Fred is a large book and right on the back it says you can play anything, that sounds like a selling point to me, I read the description of a game, ask around about it, look for a game so I can try it out before I spend any money on it etc, I do some research and don't really care if it has a great name. Look at GURPS, that sounds more like something you get from dating a porn star not a game but it seems to do well.

[verbosity]

"...Fred is a large book and right on the back it says you can play anything, that sounds like a selling point to me, I read the description of a game, ask around about it, look for a game so I can try it out before I spend any money on it etc, I do some research and don't really care if it has a great name."

That makes sense. I think your idea is certainly true of anyone who knows enough about RPGs to make an informed decision. With new players though, I don't think descriptions will mean as much because many of the strong aspects of HERO are things new players can not really appreciate until they understand role playing better. In fact, ability to play in any genre, as Fred boasts on its cover, can actually be a turn off to people because they may feel like Fred will be a generic experience, not one tailored to their favorite genre.

And to tell you the truth, when I first heard of Star Hero I remember thinking, "If the title is representative of the creativity within the game, no thanks."

[Syberdwarf2]

Most people seem to be pleased with the current state of affairs at Hero Games, as well as with their current line of products. Now, I admit, looking at the titles from your point of view, they aren't really geared to a "cool" sounding name like "dungeons and dragons" or whathaveyou.
However, as a long-time Herophile, I'm impressed with their stuff. I've pretty much come to expect a very well put together product. Thus far, DOJ has delivered on that expectation.

That's fine for someone like myself, but what about Hero-Newbies?

As someone familiar with the rules, it would fall on me to present them with a "title"; probably the title of the campaign or my personal setting.

Of course, this does absolutely no good if everyone in the group are complete newbies to the system.

[Zoth]

Problem here is the Hero System is a generic system that separates campaign world from genre. I mean what can they call it other then Star Hero or Fantasy Hero? And if they did wouldn’t that be more confusing?
What about Hero campaigns thou; Terran Empire (ok bad example), or The Turakian Age, or The Kandris Seal?
Dungeons and Dragons inherited its name but what about there modern and sci-if system? D20 Modern, Wow that sounds cool
Don’t get me wrong, I think there could have been a better name for the system instead of The Hero System 5th. I do however see why they chose to keep the name of their base system The Hero System and superhero genre named Champions to preserve name recognition.

[Lord Liaden]

In the particular example of Star HERO , I disagree; I find it to be the punchiest of all the "X HERO" titles to date, and felt that way with the first edition of it as well. And the current edition has that magnificent cover to draw in the casual game browser.

OTOH, I did find Fantasy Hero to be a bit wishy-washy when it was first used, but back then it was the first grafting of a genre name onto the Hero franchise, so at least it had the benefit of novelty at the start. But then came Star Hero, followed by Ninja Hero and Horror Hero, and it did start to feel repetitive. Of course, I completely understand the rationale of reinforcing the concept that the HERO System can be tailored for any genre. But I miss the days when Champions was joined on the shelves by Justice, Incorporated and Danger International. Now those were titles with pizzazz! Even if they didn't indicate immediately what the book was about, at least they moved me to want to find out.

Ah well, at least we can still look forward to Dark Champions. But I dread the coming of Pulp HERO. :(

[Syberdwarf2]

Originally posted by Lord Liaden
But I dread the coming of Pulp HERO. :(

Tropicana HERO...... All of the goodness of regular HERO without the Pulp ;)

[TheEmerged]

Generic System, Generic Names. Personally, I find that wonderfully appropriate.

[Keneton]

Verbosity

Is Hero system 5th edition as bad a SRD or D20 core rulebook?

Is spending $30 as bad as buying 3 core rulebooks at 20-30 bucks each plus several other 30 dollar hardbacks of dubious quality?

Did the writers of Basic D&D write 3rd edition or did they have to recruit old Hero writers to fix their game?

Why the original text (Fantasy Hero etc) came out there was a trend in gaming to sell systems. Remember Claw Law, Spell Law, Arms Law? There was also Gurps this and Gurps that. Hero was in many ways following a SYSTEM trend that was very en vouge in the 80's. We old timers look on these names with nostalgia just like Dungeons and Dragons, Tunnels and Trolls, and Villans and Vigilantes. . .Get the pattern?

What you see as novel, may just be old hat!

:)

[Aroooo]

I try to stay out of conversations like these, since they are mainly opinions and not facts. But I have to add this to the conversation:

GURPS Basic Set, 3rd Edition
GURPS Horror
GURPS Space
GURPS Magic
GURPS Mecha
etc.
etc.
etc...

Same theme as Star Hero, Fantasy Hero, etc... Immaginative or not, leave it up to the informed consumer. But it is up to the gaming companies to make sure the dealers know about their product, get their product, and display their product.

I won't mention the store chain by name, but it took 4-5 months for one of the FLGS in my area to get Hero, despite the fact that employees knew it was out (and that trend continues with the rest of the DOJ line). Their parent corporation (so the conspiracy theory goes) held off ordering it so they could push their own products.

Aroooo

[Aroooo]

Originally posted by Lord Liaden Ah well, at least we can still look forward to Dark Champions. But I dread the coming of Pulp HERO. :( [/B]

Why? Because of a name, or is it just not your cup of tea? Personally, Pulp is one of my vavorites, and I can't wait for PH. (Okay, I'll admit to missing the name Justice Inc., but I'll get over that.)

Aroooo

[Lord Liaden]

Originally posted by Aroooo
Why? Because of a name, or is it just not your cup of tea? Personally, Pulp is one of my vavorites, and I can't wait for PH. (Okay, I'll admit to missing the name Justice Inc., but I'll get over that.)

Aroooo

Yep, it's the name that gets to me. The pulp era produced some wonderful fiction, and Justice Inc was an exceptional game book. It's just that Pulp HERO sounds incredibly bland to me; makes me think of some guy working in a lumber mill, which may be a great job but not one I personally would seek to roleplay. ;)

I readily acknowledge that this is a matter of personal taste. As the above examples point out, there are plenty of "generic" names for books that sell well, so this may very well be smart marketting strategy on DoJ's part. And as I said, I think Star HERO is actually a pretty snappy name. For my part, I just like game names that have style and impact in and of themselves, without necessarily tying in to a game line. And Hero Games already has a really good one in JI that I would hate to see disappear.

[lemming]

Originally posted by Lord Liaden
But I dread the coming of Pulp HERO. :(

You're probably thinking of Pulped Hero, aka Seeker.

[Aroooo]

Originally posted by Lord Liaden
Yep, it's the name that gets to me. The pulp era produced some wonderful fiction, and Justice Inc was an exceptional game book. It's just that Pulp HERO sounds incredibly bland to me; makes me think of some guy working in a lumber mill, which may be a great job but not one I personally would seek to roleplay. ;)

I readily acknowledge that this is a matter of personal taste. As the above examples point out, there are plenty of "generic" names for books that sell well, so this may very well be smart marketting strategy on DoJ's part. And as I said, I think Star HERO is actually a pretty snappy name. For my part, I just like game names that have style and impact in and of themselves, without necessarily tying in to a game line. And Hero Games already has a really good one in JI that I would hate to see disappear.

Since I know what Pulp Hero will be, I'll buy it. But I sure wish it were called Justice Inc. instead. You're right, there is a lot to be said for a name... Even GURPS broke from 'tradition' and called it GURPS Cliffhangers.

But as i understand it, the jurry is still out on its official name; or am I mistaken? Steve?

Aroooo

[TheImperialKhan]

Originally posted by Aroooo
Since I know what Pulp Hero will be, I'll buy it. But I sure wish it were called Justice Inc. instead. You're right, there is a lot to be said for a name... Even GURPS broke from 'tradition' and called it GURPS Cliffhangers.

But as i understand it, the jurry is still out on its official name; or am I mistaken? Steve?

Aroooo

I don't think that anything has been chisled into stone yet, but the lettering seems to have already been traced on it.

None the less I have to agree with Aroooo and Lord Liaden on this one. I also prefer the title Justice Inc. If it must be tied to the system why not employ a sub-title. Something like For the HERO System or The HERO System game of two-fisted action in the Pulp era.

Just a thought.

[Toonol]

Originally posted by Aroooo
Since I know what Pulp Hero will be, I'll buy it. But I sure wish it were called Justice Inc. instead. You're right, there is a lot to be said for a name... Even GURPS broke from 'tradition' and called it GURPS Cliffhangers.

But as i understand it, the jurry is still out on its official name; or am I mistaken? Steve?

Aroooo

I like the scheme of "X HERO"; I'm sure it builds brand identity, and anybody who has purchased one HERO book will possibly notice another partly because of the consistent titling.

However, I do think "Pulp Hero" is a terrible name. Call it "Two-Fisted Hero" to punch it up a bit (pun intended :-). Nearly anything would be more dynamic than 'Pulp.'

BTW, hello all; been lurking for a while, and this is my first post.

-Toonol

[Aroooo]

Originally posted by TheImperialKhan
I don't think that anything has been chisled into stone yet, but the lettering seems to have already been traced on it.

None the less I have to agree with Aroooo and Lord Liaden on this one. I also prefer the title Justice Inc. If it must be tied to the system why not employ a sub-title. Something like For the HERO System or The HERO System game of two-fisted action in the Pulp era.

Just a thought.

Its been a while since I looked at the schedule, but from the established trend, wouldn't Pulp Hero be the rules guidleines (aka Star Hero), and Justice Inc be the background book on 30's comic pulp - possibly the Champions universe opposite of where Terran Empire is today?

But as I was typing this I was about to say Ninja Hero, but then I remembered that Ninja Hero from 4th Ed. is now The Ultimate Martial Artist, and Ninja Hero is more a campaign book. So maybe there is a bit of precedence for Justice Inc = Setting Book, and Pulp Hero be the campaign book (if they don't kill 2 birds with one stone).

Or how about:
Mad Scientist Hero
Justice Hero
Cliffhanger Hero (Steve Jackson would have a cow)
Porn Hero (just ckecking if you're still reading :))
Cinema Hero

Okay, I just realized I'm rambling... I'm going home now... Sorry.

Aroooo

[verbosity]

None the less I have to agree with Aroooo and Lord Liaden on this one. I also prefer the title Justice Inc. If it must be tied to the system why not employ a sub-title. Something like For the HERO System or The HERO System game of two-fisted action in the Pulp era.

Well said. I think that's the way to go too.


I like the scheme of "X HERO"; I'm sure it builds brand identity, and anybody who has purchased one HERO book will possibly notice another partly because of the consistent titling.

I am sure you are correct, but I think there are better ways to do it.

Lastly, a funny idea hit me as I was reading through some of the posts. Being that we're discussing the idea of "X HERO" titles, how about we throw out a top 10 list of the most absurd / cheezy / unusable "X HERO" titles possible? I'll start:

- "Sombrero HERO" : Cross that border by dawn, then marry quick or tend the lawn. In this four color adventure, Green is the only color that matters!

[Zoth]

Originally posted by verbosity


Lastly, a funny idea hit me as I was reading through some of the posts. Being that we're discussing the idea of "X HERO" titles, how about we throw out a top 10 list of the most absurd / cheezy / unusable "X HERO" titles possible? I'll start:


hehe ok sounds fun :)

Outlaw Hero
Renegade Hero
Animal Hero
Fornicating Hero

[Chaosliege]

How bout French Hero: We don't fight, we just switch sides a lot.

[Syberdwarf2]

Originally posted by Chaosliege
How bout French Hero: We don't fight, we just switch sides a lot.

The first supplement for French HERO could be;

Chemical and Biological HERO....
Sissies Switch Sides (a Dork Champions Supplement for French HERO)....
NIMBY HERO....

[Zoth]

hehe I got a good one :)

Conspiracy Hero - Please Steve call this one Hero System Black OPs or something like that :)

[Nelijal]

Books and their covers...

With all due respect, I was stunned by the--IMHO--pointless subject of this thread. But then, I'm one who rarely buys anything without research, so judging the books by their covers doesn't even occur to me. And, I have no empathy for anyone who lets such things determine their purchases. A non-issue--IMHO.

As with the previously mentioned GURPS and RoleMaster series, I see continuity, not a lack of imagination, in such titles. Both the title and the understated cover of FREd appeal to me, similar to the original Traveller books--I like the HERO 5e cover much better than 4e.

But, enough of that crap (opinions and a$$holes, y'know). HERO titles that might not sell so well? How about Pimp HERO, Crack Ho' HERO, Heroin HERO, Homeless HERO, Cancer HERO, HIV-Positive HERO, Southern Baptist HERO, Jehovah's Witness HERO, Michael Jackson HERO, Catholic Priest HERO, Jeffrey Dahmer HERO, Buchenwald HERO, or Khmer Rouge HERO?

[Zoth]

Originally posted by Nelijal
HERO titles that might not sell so well? How about Pimp HERO, Crack Ho' HERO, Heroin HERO, Homeless HERO, Cancer HERO, HIV-Positive HERO, Southern Baptist HERO, Jehovah's Witness HERO, Michael Jackson HERO, Catholic Priest HERO, Jeffrey Dahmer HERO, Buchenwald HERO, or Khmer Rouge HERO?
you forgot Anal-retentive Hero :)

[Syberdwarf2]

Viagra HERO!!!

[Nelijal]

Originally posted by Zoth
you forgot Anal-retentive Hero :) Sorry 'bout that, there wasn't a mirror around to remind me. :p


Originally posted by Syberdwarf2
Viagra HERO!!!With a picture of Spandex-clad Bob Dole and Britney Spears on the cover?

[Syberdwarf2]

Originally posted by Nelijal
With a picture of Spandex-clad Bob Dole

That's just... not... right.:eek:

[TheEmerged]

Excuse me, my brain just leapt from my skull after reading that. I've *got* to get a leesh for that thing...

[keithcurtis]

Certified Public Accountant Hero
Busboy Hero
Dental Assisatant Hero
Anti-Hero
Auntie Hero
Interior Decorator Hero

and my favorite:

Villain Hero!

Keith "Who actually holds a degree in Interior Design and has eaten many Hero Sandwiches" Curtis

--oh yeah, Sandwich Hero!

[Syberdwarf2]

Weight Watchers HERO
McHERO
Used Car Dealer HERO
Sanitation HERO

[BasilDrag]

Cubicle Hero: deal with sadistic bosses, idiot cow-orkers, and horrible traffic, in an environment where the greatest rebellion you can get away with is tacking "Dilbert" cartoons to your cubicle's walls.

And remember, if your character gets fired, you're out of the game!

--
"Innovation is hard to schedule." -- Dan Fylstra

[Zoth]

Has any one said Satanic Hero yet? :)

I think Nelijal is right this thread has gone out of control. The only way it can get worse is if we start talking about the art in the books :)

P.S As far as I'm concerned you can keep the art if it would reduce the cost.

[Nelijal]

Originally posted by Zoth
Has any one said Satanic Hero yet? :)

I think Nelijal is right this thread has gone out of control. The only way it can get worse is if we start talking about the art in the books :)

P.S As far as I'm concerned you can keep the art if it would reduce the cost. If you take out the pictures, my players won't have any reason to buy the books. :eek:

[Zoth]

True, True. It's just that some people go overboard with their art expectations, but I think DOJ has done a good job myself.

[Nelijal]

Wanna talk about art? Imagine the illustrations in Porn Star HERO! We could start a whole new thread on building Powers and Equipment for that game.

Maybe Steve will put my name down to author that one. I'll dust off the unfinished notes on my previous game expansions: Vixens & Venery for AD&D and Letch Law for RoleMaster.

[Zoth]

Originally posted by Nelijal
Wanna talk about art? Imagine the illustrations in Porn Star HERO! We could start a whole new thread on building Powers and Equipment for that game.

Problem is overtime the book is gone get all sticky and wet and hard to use not to mention odor.

[keithcurtis]

Originally posted by Syberdwarf2
Sanitation HERO

Are you kidding? Sanitation Hero would have the write-up for one of the greatest heroes ever: Sewer Urchin!

Keith "Sewer Urchin. Definitely, Sewer Urchin, yahh." Curtis

[Nelijal]

Originally posted by Zoth
Problem is overtime the book is gone get all sticky and wet and hard to use not to mention odor. Man, you're nasty. Cool.

[Syberdwarf2]

Originally posted by keithcurtis
Are you kidding? Sanitation Hero would have the write-up for one of the greatest heroes ever: Sewer Urchin!

Keith "Sewer Urchin. Definitely, Sewer Urchin, yahh." Curtis

LOL....
and his trusty sidekick; Gutter Rat :)

[verbosity]

...I'm one who rarely buys anything without research, so judging the books by their covers doesn't even occur to me. And, I have no empathy for anyone who lets such things determine their purchases. A non-issue--IMHO.


I do have empathy for those people. I think HERO is a good system and I'd like to see all kinds of people encouraged to play it, not just people who think like I (you) do.



Viagra Hero

I don't know about that one, I think most people would find it way too hard. :rolleyes:

As far as Sewer Urchin and his trusty sidekick Gutter Rat, don't forget about their long time friend... Poo Bear

[John T]

Yep, it's the name that gets to me. The pulp era produced some wonderful fiction, and Justice Inc was an exceptional game book. It's just that Pulp HERO sounds incredibly bland to me; makes me think of some guy working in a lumber mill, which may be a great job but not one I personally would seek to roleplay. ;)
Heh!.. actually, the first thing I think of with that title is what happens when a Martial Artist gets sloppy around an enemy Brick... ;)

John T

[abalux]

Cubicle Hero: deal with sadistic bosses, idiot cow-orkers, and horrible traffic, in an environment where the greatest rebellion you can get away with is tacking "Dilbert" cartoons to your cubicle's walls.

And remember, if your character gets fired, you're out of the game!


I'd play that one (for the record, I am an ardent Dilbert fan).

'Course, one I've heard bandied about is Grade School HERO. Smear around finger paint, brave the horrors of cafeteria food, and find as many opportunities as you can to bug Teacher. Good opportunities for Toon HERO. (Yep, another one guaranteed to make Steve Jackson nuts.)

[zornwil]

I don't think that anything has been chisled into stone yet, but the lettering seems to have already been traced on it.

None the less I have to agree with Aroooo and Lord Liaden on this one. I also prefer the title Justice Inc. If it must be tied to the system why not employ a sub-title. Something like For the HERO System or The HERO System game of two-fisted action in the Pulp era.

Just a thought.
Though it's a bit late now, post-6th (yeah, I know...) would be a good opportunity for change. Personally I'd make it something like the flashy title as the main title and a subtitle that's the generic "(genre) HERO" - so for example: Lands of Wonder: Fantasy HERO; Sci-Fi Thrillers!: Star HERO. That sort of thing.

[Solomon]

and my favorite:

Villain Hero!

Keith "Who actually holds a degree in Interior Design and has eaten many Hero Sandwiches" Curtis

--oh yeah, Sandwich Hero!

Villain Hero is a thing of beuty! :D

I hope Hero Games starts working on that right now.

[Sociotard]

Not gonna read through three pages of posts to see if anybody else mentioned it, but, while Star hero won't win anybody on sheer title, Terran Empire and Alien Wars might. Fantasy Hero sounds dull, but Turakian Age doesn't. Plus, they have nice covers. Once people get pulled into those, they'll get the genre books, having realized the flexibility of the system.

[Vanulf]

Lest you forget
Game Designer Hero

[PhilFleischmann]

They could always give it one of those "or" titles such as were popular in pulp fiction of a bygone era: "Pulp HERO, or Justice, Inc."

And for the list of non-usable X Hero titles:

Non-Fiction HERO - we've got so many genres of fiction to choose from, but what we really need is a genre book to help us play characters from works of non-fiction: documentaries, textbooks, instructional videos, "Complete Idiot's Guide to _", "_ for Dummies", etc.

And we really shouldn't be saying "X HERO." Marvel Comics owns the copyright on the letter 'X'. We don't want to get sued.

[CorpCommander]

"The Jedi Who Made Out With His Sister"? (Okay, so the last one would kill in Tennessee, but still....)


Leave it to an elitist yankee from Ohio to come up with something offensive like that. Maybe at Origins me an all the other boys from Tennessee can tell you what we think of your sense of humor.

:stupid:

[CrosshairCollie]

I'd rather have a great system with a dull name than a dull system with a great name. But, of course, I'm a HERO junkie so I think like that. For a counterpoint, let's take ... THE WORLD OF DARKNESS. Spiffy title. Evocative. Creepy. Forboding. Lets you know right off the bat that this world sucks giant turkey ass and you're stuck right in the middle of it.

Then you discover the rotten game mechanics, total lack of game balance, unpronounceable names for abilities, intensely pigeonholed and stereotypical characters ("You're a (Clan/Tribe/Order) (Vampire/Werewolf/Mage), you have to act like (insert personality type here)!"), and realize that perhaps substance is better than style.

But hey, at least you got to game with a goth hottie in black leather.

[madgoblin]

So here is the sick question did anyone ever come up with Porn Hero?

[AmadanNaBriona]

But hey, at least you got to game with a goth hottie in black leather.

And THAT my friends, is the reason WoD flourished :D

[verbosity]

Corp, I'm from Knoxville. Born and raised, I love that town.

You're sensitive and quick to judge, eh? Being that we are both people who like to pretend we're superheroes for a hobby, maybe we should be a little more down-to-earth and less judgemental?

By the way, your threat to "tell you what we think of your sense of humor" makes us southerners look ignorant. At least I just made the "yankees" (that's the slur you chose, right?) look bad. :)

V
--------------------------
CorpCommander wrote:
"Leave it to an elitist yankee from Ohio to come up with something offensive like that. Maybe at Origins me an all the other boys from Tennessee can tell you what we think of your sense of humor."

[Dr. Anomaly]

http://castle-walls.org/hero/error/necromancy.png

Woha...that was a trip down Memory Lane...

Okay, who left the keys in the Wayback Machine?

;)


Seriously, though...at first I was a bit spooked, seeing the names & avatars of so many posters who haven't been here in ages, and Halloween's coming up and...

...and then I noticed the post dates. :)

[Sean Waters]

Interesting point though: whatever did happen to Porn Hero? :)

[Trencher]

There may be some truth to what you say, but do you really think that someone who would plop down $30-$40 for a game because it has a cool name or pretty pictures is going to take the time to learn HERO's rules?

I do.

[CorpCommander]

Corp, I'm from Knoxville. Born and raised, I love that town.

You're sensitive and quick to judge, eh? Being that we are both people who like to pretend we're superheroes for a hobby, maybe we should be a little more down-to-earth and less judgemental?

By the way, your threat to "tell you what we think of your sense of humor" makes us southerners look ignorant. At least I just made the "yankees" (that's the slur you chose, right?) look bad. :)


Wow - I got to laugh at a joke I made ages ago... I haven't been on these boards in a long, long time. Hmmm speaking of Jedi I am beging to sound like Obi Wan Kenobi.

I haven't played Hero in ages actually. The regular gaming group dispersed as people moved on in life. I did flip through pulp hero the other day though - certainly got me thinking...

Whatever the point of this thread was ages ago is illrelevant to me. However it is nice to be reminded of the fun I've had on these boards.

[atlascott]

Verbosity:

"...No matter how much I explain to them that "Star Hero" is likely a superior game to "Illuminati", "Disciples of Cthulhu", "Forgotten Futures", "Alternate Earths", "Cyberpunk", or "Battletech", the latter just have more mystery and allure. They sound like the real thing. They may not be superior in reality, but any newbie is going to choose one of those over something called "Star Hero", a name I'd expect to see in the clearance bin...

...And speaking of emotions, is the name "Star Hero" really going to get someone charged up to spend $30.00 and learn 300 pages of rules?"

Verbosity, you are absolutely, 100% correct. There are many on these boards who agree with you, and many who do not, and will give you a hard time for what is obvious to you, I, and the entire Marketing discipline and profession. Great content in a bland delivery system sells less than mediocre product that is well packaged and marketed. What alot of these guys fail to realize is that you, I, and others who are capable of making this observation STILL love the HERO system, and want it to do well. Even a genius will prefer a pretty book over a bland one, given equivalnet information--it has nothing to do with the fglase dichotomy of 'either content OR presentation.'

[ghost-angel]

Except that Star Hero is for any SciFi game, Battletech is not.

And if gamers are that shallow ... then whatever. Go play MtG.

[Black Rose]

Except that Star Hero is for any SciFi game, Battletech is not.

And if gamers are that shallow ... then whatever. Go play MtG.
Except... if you haven't been exposed to all that much in the way of gaming, the idea that a good game will have an evocative name isn't that improbable. After you've been in the subculture a while, you learn that they don't always go together - i.e., all too many of those POS d20 indie games - but if you didn't get in during the early eighties, when a crap title could be a great game, the connection simply isn't there.

[Duke Bushido]

Wow.

To think that someone found this worth resurecting.....

I guess insomnia is not unique to me......

[Trencher]

Except that Star Hero is for any SciFi game, Battletech is not.

And if gamers are that shallow ... then whatever. Go play MtG.

I think the tone you have here is more suited for the ngd rather than the rpg boards.

[ghost-angel]

I think the tone you have here is more suited for the ngd rather than the rpg boards.
That's possible.

but then, I don't put on a smile just to please some social need to play nice.

[Trencher]

That's possible.

but then, I don't put on a smile just to please some social need to play nice.

Nice has nothing to do with it. A smily would not really help.
If you don't have anything to add to the discussion then don't add, otherwise we end up with rpgnet like conditions where every usefull post is drowned in a thousand cute comments like yours below.

[ghost-angel]

It's a discussion about the NAME of the system, that's like saying you don't want to drive a Ferrari because it's blue. Sorry, it's already a rather insipid topic.

[Trencher]

It's a discussion about the NAME of the system, that's like saying you don't want to drive a Ferrari because it's blue. Sorry, it's already a rather insipid topic.

It is a marketing concern. It can be an interesting topic as any.

[Sean Waters]

Except that Star Hero is for any SciFi game, ..................


...or possibly any talent contest game :)

I do agree that Hero naming conventions leave a lot to be desired, and, shallow as it may make me, I am probably more likely to buy the attractively packaged rpg I don't know than the less appealing one I also don't know, if that is the extent of the choice.

If you already know the systems and what it is you want then it is not really an issue. If you do your research and you are after a specific product, then packaging is of secondary importance at best.

Take an example of sci-fi books. I am looking to read something. If I see a book by an author I know is good the cover and sleeve notes are not that important, but absent that, they are what is going to get me to stick my hand in my pocket.

Maybe people take a bit more time with a more expensive book like a rpg, but probably not that much more.

Anyway, we all bought it, so what do we know :D?

[Sean Waters]

:)Did you :) note all the :) smilies :) so that no one missed:) that I am a really nice chap :) and everyone should be really nice to me :)?:)

:)?

Sean 'Of course I care what you think' Waters:sneaky:



HA! Did you know you are limited to using 10 images in a post, so I had to ditch some of the smilies that were originally here!

[nexus]

I don't know. Maybe I am a total Hero fanboy (I don't think so, I realize the system isn't perfect and I don't think I harass people that don't like it), but I don't see what was so wrong with name "Star Hero". Its a generic sourcebook for running science fiction games slanted towards the Hero System, but could be used for other gaming systems. Just what would you call it? Its not a specific setting, its not a adventure module or a enemies book. I thought the cover was actually quite nice. The setting specific source books seem to have more evocative names as appropriate (Terran Empire, Worlds of Empire, etc). It was enough so that some people unfamiliar with the Hero system picked it up and used it for their games in other system, but the "generic" nature of the name didn't drive off everyone that looked at it. I guess there could have been some "better" name, but I don't see Star Hero as some horrible mistake given what the contents were.

[Sean Waters]

Well it does what it says on the tin. Which is nice. And a generic setting probably needs a generic name. And the covers are improving. Apart from 5ER, which is a bit bland, but then how are you going to pictorially represent EVERYTHING?

Compromise solution, next time we redo these things, let's have sub-titles that those who prefer the more evocative naming can utilise.

Ladles and Jellyspoons, I give you:

STAR HERO: Universe of Darkness. With Stars. Obviously. And Planets. Oooh, and Adventures. In Space. And on Planets. With probably quite an emphasis on Technology. Probably.


Can I also recommend we don't have me thinking up any more names?

[Dr. Anomaly]

Can I also recommend we don't have me thinking up any more names?
I'll second that. :)


But you really should send that to Steve as a proposal. You may get a book deal out of it...

[zornwil]

I don't know. Maybe I am a total Hero fanboy (I don't think so, I realize the system isn't perfect and I don't think I harass people that don't like it), but I don't see what was so wrong with name "Star Hero". Its a generic sourcebook for running science fiction games slanted towards the Hero System, but could be used for other gaming systems. Just what would you call it? Its not a specific setting, its not a adventure module or a enemies book. I thought the cover was actually quite nice. The setting specific source books seem to have more evocative names as appropriate (Terran Empire, Worlds of Empire, etc). It was enough so that some people unfamiliar with the Hero system picked it up and used it for their games in other system, but the "generic" nature of the name didn't drive off everyone that looked at it. I guess there could have been some "better" name, but I don't see Star Hero as some horrible mistake given what the contents were.
My sense is that "generic" is now a dirty word in the RPG industry.

[NuSoardGraphite]

The original poster has a point.

I had a friend who used to buy games soley based on the tittle of the game and/or the pictures he found inside.

Of course, he teneded to waste a lot of money, but occasionally, he'd discover a gem. With as many RPG's as he bought on random impulse, it was bound to happen. And he never would have taken a second look at Hero.

Whats my stance? Keep the current naming conventions. Its keeps the riff-raff away.

[NuSoardGraphite]

The original poster has a point.

I had a friend who used to buy games soley based on the tittle of the game and/or the pictures he found inside.

Of course, he teneded to waste a lot of money, but occasionally, he'd discover a gem. With as many RPG's as he bought on random impulse, it was bound to happen. And he never would have taken a second look at Hero.

Whats my stance? Keep the current naming conventions. Its keeps the riff-raff away.

[MisterBaldy]

What about...
http://www.discomuseum.com/BeeGeesGreatestLogo.jpg
DISCO HERO!!!

[ghost-angel]

look! Evil!!

[Chimpira]

I don't know. It sounds to me like somewhere along way we forgot that old saying, "Never judge a book by it's cover." I played Advanced Dungeons and Dragons in the beginning (starting in 1986) but I was pretty on again off again about gaming. It never occured to me that the name might sound cool. It was not until I ran in a game called of all things, Superworld, (The name was bad and the artwork for the most part was just really hideous) that I truly came to love roleplaying. I started playing the hero system before I knew that Champions existed. The rule book that I had was not the Champions book. It was a hero system book. I remember flipping through the pages and being floored by the content and when I hit the martial arts section, I was hooked.

I think I might worry if I sat down at a table and asked why the GM chose to buy the game we were about to play and he/she replied "I liked the name and doesn't the cover look cool?" Do not get me wrong. I love great art and saying you are going off to play [insert cool name here], can add a little spice, but I think that I am getting to the age where I am just more selective about what I buy. Heck, I bought a gaming system because I recognized the authors name. I had liked a previous product of his and so after picking up the new book and flipping through I bought it. I find that I tend to do that more often now a days.

[Sean Waters]

The original poster has a point.

I had a friend who used to buy games soley based on the tittle of the game and/or the pictures he found inside.

Of course, he teneded to waste a lot of money, but occasionally, he'd discover a gem. With as many RPG's as he bought on random impulse, it was bound to happen. And he never would have taken a second look at Hero.

Whats my stance? Keep the current naming conventions. Its keeps the riff-raff away.

Well. I'm sorry - it didn't work: I'm here, aren't I?

Actually I used to buy albums based almost exclusively on name and cover, which explains why I have so much heavy metal, I suppose....

[Sean Waters]

Of course we could always have great names, great covers AND great content. We don't have to just pick one....

[NuSoardGraphite]

Of course we could always have great names, great covers AND great content. We don't have to just pick one....

Its pretty rare when that happens though. Look at the entire RPG industry.

GURPS: Horrible name. Decent artwork. Good content.

RIFTS: Pretty good name. Good to great artwork. So-so content (great worldsetting, horrible execution)

Cyberpunk: Good name. Okay artwork. Good content.

D&D: Decent name. Good to great arwork. So-so content. (World settings are great, but system unplayable after experiencing other RPGs)

Shadowrun: GREAT name. Good artwork. So-so content. (I love Shadowrun, but its got problems)

Battlelords of the 23rd Century: Fantastic name (you're like, "What the?! I gotta check this game out") so-so artwork. so-so content. (like RIFTS, great worldsetting. Not-so-good system, but at least its playable)

World of Darkness: Good name. Fantastic Artwork. Okay content (great worldsetting. Pretty good system, but destroyed by lack of balance)

HERO System: So-so name. So-so artwork. Fantastic content.

Are there any games out there that are Great or above in all three categories?

[zornwil]

Its pretty rare when that happens though. Look at the entire RPG industry.

GURPS: Horrible name. Decent artwork. Good content.

RIFTS: Pretty good name. Good to great artwork. So-so content (great worldsetting, horrible execution)

Cyberpunk: Good name. Okay artwork. Good content.

D&D: Decent name. Good to great arwork. So-so content. (World settings are great, but system unplayable after experiencing other RPGs)

Shadowrun: GREAT name. Good artwork. So-so content. (I love Shadowrun, but its got problems)

Battlelords of the 23rd Century: Fantastic name (you're like, "What the?! I gotta check this game out") so-so artwork. so-so content. (like RIFTS, great worldsetting. Not-so-good system, but at least its playable)

World of Darkness: Good name. Fantastic Artwork. Okay content (great worldsetting. Pretty good system, but destroyed by lack of balance)

HERO System: So-so name. So-so artwork. Fantastic content.

Are there any games out there that are Great or above in all three categories?
I think Deadlands had a great name, good art, and great content. Savage Worlds has a good if unspectactular name, good art, and excellent content.

[lrojas]

I would like to timidly add, Blue Rose RPG, it has good rules, good content and great art.

[Trencher]

It is possible to rename the hero world and still follow a heroic theme.
This is the names I use for my campains.

Star hero- Finest hour

Fantasy hero- Pathway to glory

Horror hero- Defenders of hope.

Apocalypse hero- The long road.

[Chuk]

Actually I used to buy albums based almost exclusively on name and cover, which explains why I have so much heavy metal, I suppose....

I did that for a while (although I'd also factor in song titles). Only twice did I get an album I wouldn't listen to again, and most of the time they turned out pretty good.

I think you'd get pretty hosed if you tried that with RPGs, though, unless you really like d20.

[Sean Waters]

I did that for a while (although I'd also factor in song titles). Only twice did I get an album I wouldn't listen to again, and most of the time they turned out pretty good.

I think you'd get pretty hosed if you tried that with RPGs, though, unless you really like d20.

A fair point :)

To be honest I like to collect game rules anyway: there are not many that don't have SOME good ideas I can canabalise and think about using elsewhere.