Most Ridiculous Rules Interpretation Ever? [Archive]

tesuji

Mar 18th, '03, 04:11 AM

More of a metarules interpretation...

So in a FH game, they had worked their way to the hidden room where the death ward they had read about which promised to syck the life from anyone entering was present. After some experimentation they realized it had been weakened and was a slow death effect now and was "effectively" a body destruction.

So the other got ready to start translating the runes and figure out another way in to bypass the wards when the paladin-esque player suggested he go in, he was willing to sacrifice himself to get the trniket they needed.

After some disagreements and arguments, he proceeded in. I was impressed with his "roleplaying" and so forth.

By the time he was out, he had lost 4 body from the destruction effect. The player seemed unfazed and ready to proceed and even roleplayed the character as a little tired.

The next day he handed me the new character sheet where he had reallocated those 8 points from the lost 4 body into skill bonuses and a new minor magical trick (some aid thingy iirc.)

Dumbfounded, i told him "you lost those points, that body is gone, think of it like a long long term drain."

"Yeah, I know they are gone, but in hero gone means you get the points back. So here you go."

Still surprised but now understanding the reason behind his willingness to step in and such... he saw it as "freeing up points" not losing health.. I said "No. Losing stats due to hostile force is just that, losing."

He began to rail and rant...

"I was on the original playtest for this damn game. I know what I am talking about, In champions you never lose points, that would throw off all the balance. I get those points back now here is my sheet."

"Can you show me a rule?"

"I dont need a rule the whole book says so. I was on the poriginal playtest team, my name is in the book for chrissakes. I know thats understood, everybody knows it but you."

"Your name is in the book? Where?"

"It was, though, of course not my real name. look, do i get my points or not?"

"No, i am sorry although you should understand that I did plan on future storylines restoring..."

"Thats it! I am outta here. i will find a GM who knows the first thing about champions."

He never played with us again.

Super Squirrel

Mar 18th, '03, 04:25 AM

A person created a tiered system for their character. He had four 'gears' and each had a new and harder activation roll to turn on. He was built in such a way that fourth gear had the multiplier of a -15, -13, -11, and -8 all stacked together. I swear that if you took away all his limitations you were looking at close to 1200 pts worth of powers on a 350 game.

The_Hero

Mar 18th, '03, 05:57 AM

Had to chime in on this one...

Remember the whole "talking takes zero time" rule?

Well, we had a group that believed it all the way.

If a threat would come up, we had a team meeting on what to do about it that took 3 hours REAL TIME, even when the threat was immediate! The rule was intended as for use with one-liners and sililoquies.

We ended up having one session of briefing, one session of action, and one session of debriefing!

Gary

Mar 18th, '03, 06:12 AM

NND area effect martial throw. I actually got away with it for one session before it got banned by the GM. :D

misterdeath

Mar 18th, '03, 06:29 AM

Originally posted by The_Hero
Had to chime in on this one...

Remember the whole "talking takes zero time" rule?

Well, we had a group that believed it all the way.

If a threat would come up, we had a team meeting on what to do about it that took 3 hours REAL TIME, even when the threat was immediate! The rule was intended as for use with one-liners and sililoquies.

We ended up having one session of briefing, one session of action, and one session of debriefing!

Been there, done that, got the tee shirt.

"Talking takes no time, so I'm going to give complete battle orders, and discuss things with my teammates."

I can't believe the GM let me get away with that.

D

Talon

Mar 18th, '03, 07:09 AM

I actually knew someone who thought that you could fire two powers together in 4th Edition without taking the Linked Limitation. ;)

Fazhoul

Mar 18th, '03, 07:34 AM

I had a GM once who thought that Elemental Controls should be just that, Elemental. The powers had to be based on earth, air, fire or water or some derivative thereof. So no mental powers, gravity powers, light powers, etc. I tried to explain that Elemental Control just meant a common element among the powers but he wouldn't listen. It still makes me grit my teeth when I think about it.

Acroyear

Mar 18th, '03, 07:37 AM

Flash vs Balance
Because you have a "Sense of Balance" don't you? They just fall over dizzy until it's over.

Flash vs Common Sense
"It just makes them make stupid decisions for the duration"

No and NO.

Armitage

Mar 18th, '03, 07:42 AM

Originally posted by Super Squirrel
A person created a tiered system for their character. He had four 'gears' and each had a new and harder activation roll to turn on. He was built in such a way that fourth gear had the multiplier of a -15, -13, -11, and -8 all stacked together. I swear that if you took away all his limitations you were looking at close to 1200 pts worth of powers on a 350 game.

Sound like Quantum from Dragon Magazine #111.
A 3rd Edition character built on 643 points. But the character had 5 different power levels (quantum levels), each harder to reach, and each level was actually 300 points.
Level 1-Normal state, weak powers.
Level 2-Normal fighting level, +1 Limitation (3rd ed., remember)
Level 3-Hurt or angry, 1 game in 3, +2 Lim.
Level 4-Rarely reached, +4 Lim. (?!?!)
Level 5-Goddess Level, +8 Lim. (Ouch)

Level 1: 25 STR, 23 DEX, 4 SPD, 10 PD/ED, 10/10 FF, 10d6 EB.
Level 5: 65 STR, 43 DEX, 12 SPD, 30 PD/ED, 30/30 FF, 26d6 EB.

Also various levels of Flight, RKA Ranged END Drain, Radius Flash, Entangle, Force Wall, Telekinesis (130 STR at Level 5), Desolidification, Invisibility, Power defense, Ego Defense, Flash defense, Lack of Weakness, Life Support, Regeneration , Danger Sense, and enhanced senses.

All for 643 points.

(Oops. Just looked more closely at the article. The character was created by George MacDonald.) :)

keithcurtis

Mar 18th, '03, 07:52 AM

Not a Hero rule, but an M:tG rule. There was a card that said the opponent would "Lose next turn". Someone tried to argue that meant he would lose the game on the next turn. :rolleyes:

I had a player in a Champions game want to be invulnerable. THat was OK. I let him use a mechanic a villain was using: Desolidifcation+Str affects real world. He wasn't even a big brick, which was a deciding factor. I let him have a ARW gun. He also asked for a jet belt with several levels of NCM to get around from place to place. Wonder of wonders, when the game starts, he tries to do a non-combat move-by on a villain. He blew the DC cap out of the water by several factors.
I tried to quell it by stating he couldn't use non-combat velocity for a combat maneuver. He correctly pointed out you could, at a penalty. I finally told him he was violating the spirit of the game. He pouted and said that the move through was how he had envisioned the character and if he couldn't do it, he wouldn't play it.
Sheesh! "envisioned the character" my big toe. If he had "envisioned the character" that way, why didn't he mention it to me during the design process? Why the wimpy gun?
He didn't play the character again.

Keith "GMing with an iron fist" Curtis

Acroyear

Mar 18th, '03, 08:04 AM

My flying brick did noncombat move throughs all the time. Even more fun, the non-combat, power dive move throughs... wheeee.

Did the desolid guy realize that he would still take his fair share of the maneuver damage since he could still affect himself and it was his maneuver?

Chris Goodwin

Mar 18th, '03, 08:43 AM

Originally posted by Geoff Speare
I actually knew someone who thought that you could fire two powers together in 4th Edition without taking the Linked Limitation. ;)

Interestingly enough, apparently Bruce Harlick and Steve Peterson thought that too! Boy, they musta had egg on their faces....

;)

Chris Goodwin

Mar 18th, '03, 08:47 AM

First edition Fantasy Hero had an Advantage called Variable Result. It let you do things like change the allocation of PD and ED in Force Field, change the target of your Aid or Drain, etc. I used it on a Champions character with Multiform. This was under 3rd edition rules, my Multiform was something like 130 base points. So I ended up with the ability to basically be any 650 point character I could think of.

The GM went with it, probably because it was a solo campaign. And I ended up sticking with one single form, a character that had a 300 point Variable Power Pool linked to Shapeshift.

Acroyear

Mar 18th, '03, 09:14 AM

Originally posted by archer
Interestingly enough, apparently Bruce Harlick and Steve Peterson thought that too! Boy, they musta had egg on their faces....

Not for the first 3 editions they didn't... or at least such usage was so rare I never saw it happen :)

JohnathanChance

Mar 18th, '03, 09:33 AM

The only rules raping I can think of would be Tashi the skunk that was more dense than the planet earth. I don't know how many levels she had but the player had worked the math and she literally weighed more than the planet earth, all on 250 pts. This was also the character without a brain...
Tashi had Desol Only vs mental powers.:D

Unfortunately I was never able to purloin the character sheet to peruse the 10 pages of scribbles:D

Blue

Mar 18th, '03, 10:03 AM

Elemental controls within elemental controls.
Multipowers within multipowers.
Don't even ask how.

I vetoed it, naturally.

Then there are plenty of special effects/advantages matchups that were just wrong. "I'll build a gun that fires cold beams and make it NND v. Flash Defense." to which I ask, "Uh... explain how Flash D would counter cold?"

Champsguy

Mar 18th, '03, 10:50 AM

There was once a guy who thought Area Effect was two dimensional.

"I fly up one hex. I'm okay, right?"

misterdeath

Mar 18th, '03, 10:57 AM

Of cource it's two dimensional, Area is the two dimensional measurement. If it had been meant to be three dimensional, it would have been Volume of Effect.

Wasn't that how that argument went? Good thing that got clarified in 5th.

D

Haerandir

Mar 18th, '03, 11:56 AM

I once knew a guy who convinced his GM to let him buy a vehicle (a motorcycle) that could Multiform into a battlesuit. So, every point he spent from the main character turned into 25 points worth of battlesuit. Not a bad little force multplier...

Chris Goodwin

Mar 18th, '03, 01:35 PM

Originally posted by Acroyear
Not for the first 3 editions they didn't... or at least such usage was so rare I never saw it happen :)

The way I heard it, that's how it was supposed to be all along, and that's how the original Hero partners played it. Apparently someone forgot to actually put it in the book.

I believe I got this from a conversation with Steve Long a couple of years ago.

Mayday

Mar 18th, '03, 02:21 PM

My first GM built Mayday (a human mentalist) with ego powers on the limitation OAF (-1) Head.

JmOz

Mar 18th, '03, 03:04 PM

Originally posted by Haerandir
I once knew a guy who convinced his GM to let him buy a vehicle (a motorcycle) that could Multiform into a battlesuit. So, every point he spent from the main character turned into 25 points worth of battlesuit. Not a bad little force multplier...

You would hate the character I am working on:

A Summons on a multiform on a duplication on a vehicle

lemming

Mar 18th, '03, 03:28 PM

Way back when (Champs II) I had someone want to put a vehicle in a gadget pool. (Back when gadget pools were real points and not active...) woo!

Dr. Rune

Mar 18th, '03, 05:22 PM

Originally posted by Mayday
My first GM built Mayday (a human mentalist) with ego powers on the limitation OAF (-1) Head.

LOL!! I like that one....

I'm sure if I thought back on the 10+ years I've been playing Champions, I could think of some real doozies but the one the leaps out first is this:

I was playing a solo game where I was going up against a vampire and doing quite well, I might add. All of a sudden the vampire pulls back and begins staring at me. The GM rolls 3d6 and says "O.k, they pass....this creature of the night is looking pretty good to you, if ya know what I mean". (wink, wink)...... Not understanding what he meant, I asked and the gm said that the vampire was using the Seduction skill. I had to remind him that a). I don't think it would work in the middle of a heated combat, b). a skill can't really 'make' someone do something (especially without some sort of ego roll) and c). the vampire was a MAN!!!!, as was my character, and that I/he didn't swing that way!! (..not that there's anything wrong with it...lol) I'll admit he was new to Gm'ing and Champions, but it's still a crack up...at least to me :)

Doc

Acroyear

Mar 18th, '03, 05:29 PM

Originally posted by archer
The way I heard it, that's how it was supposed to be all along, and that's how the original Hero partners played it. Apparently someone forgot to actually put it in the book.

I believe I got this from a conversation with Steve Long a couple of years ago.

Well, I have no recollection of ever seeing them do it. Which is why I say that it either wasn't the case or something rather rare for them to actually do (perhaps due to the rarity of having multiple attack powers that could be fired at once as characters seemed to be designed then). We took more than a few queues from how they played when they were around. I mean, who would know better than them? :)

Crimson-Hawk

Mar 18th, '03, 05:38 PM

Perhaps the most ridiculous rules interpretation issue I had the pleasure of sitting in on had to be when one of my fellow players, playing a cosmic-style teleporter, tried to teleport a huge nuclear missile to the far side of the moon.

When the GM considered the teleporter's teleport power level and the mass of the missile, he ruled that the character couldn't do it. The player railed against this, wondering what the GM meant by "mass." When the GM tried to explain what "mass" was, the player went ballistic.

I'm no longer certain how the discussion got into "mass" and "density," but it did. The GM tried to explain that mass and density were different, that density was the amount of mass within a certain volume. But the player insisted that mass and density were the same thing and that volume was a term used only in terms of liquids. When a third party observer brought down his high school science text book that explained exactly was "mass" and "density" were, the player called the science book "stupid."

To this day, my friends and I crack jokes about "mass" and "density" at the expense of this player.

A close second to this had to be another player who was a wargamer more than a roleplayer. Every time he built his character (a sorceress with a hyper-efficient EC for her spells), the GM would somehow be able to damage that character with an attack. Every time the GM scored a hit during an adventure, the player would go back to HeroMaker to completely rebuild his character to make her completely immune to the attack that harmed her that session. When the GM confronted the player on this, the player's response was that the program allowed him to do it so it must be legal.

Needless to say, I don't play with either of these players any longer.

Agent Escafarc

Mar 18th, '03, 05:45 PM

He must of had the same college science teacher I had. This guy tried to tell us density was why things could fly:rolleyes:

Burnout

Mar 18th, '03, 06:11 PM

Well lets see, a friend of mine took Does Not Affect Figured Characteristics on Speed once...

Another one put his End Reserve in a Multipower- there wasn't a hard set rule against it in 4th edition, but I couldn't really see how he could justify that. 500pts of endurance for 3 points in an ultra slot. Nuh Uh.

Then in my Cyberpunk campaign (which had elements of magic in it, ala Shadowrun) I said that the damage cap for a character would be 60pts. So then the first session this guy shows me his character who has a 4d6 HKA sword and 30 strength giving him a 6d6 HKA. He didn't see the problem. :rolleyes:

Then there was this one guy who had a set of magical robes that gave him wind powers. We all wondered how he could be so powerful- turns out he took Independent on EVERYTHING. In our game we ruled that Independent allowed enemies to use your items while Foci just meant that only you could use that particular item. He took it just a little too far. He was supposed to be this big magic wielding character, yet the only magic he wielded was a summoning spell to bring his robes to him (Instant Change).

Of course, there was a time when I remade my sonic-wielding character almost every session because I felt I could never get him quite right. The GM never minded me doing it, but it was pretty funny that my character sported completely different powers each time. I got a lot of flack for that one (which I rightly deserved).

Oh, then there was this other time when I pointed out to the group that you had to make your autofire roll by every 2pts to successfully hit your target successively. They had been playing for 5 years that you got to hit the target by every 1pt you make your roll by, and they all said "We think we know how to play the game, smart ass". I whipped out the Rulebook, flipped to autofire and said "But you never actually read anything about it, did you?".

Good times, good times.

Acroyear

Mar 18th, '03, 06:16 PM

Originally posted by Burnout
Another one put his End Reserve in a Multipower- there wasn't a hard set rule against it in 4th edition, but I couldn't really see how he could justify that. 500pts of endurance for 3 points in an ultra slot. Nuh Uh.

This actually occurred in Enemies of San Angelo, as well.

Doug McCrae

Mar 19th, '03, 09:59 AM

Originally posted by Burnout
Then there was this one guy who had a set of magical robes that gave him wind powers. We all wondered how he could be so powerful- turns out he took Independent on EVERYTHING. In our game we ruled that Independent allowed enemies to use your items while Foci just meant that only you could use that particular item. He took it just a little too far. He was supposed to be this big magic wielding character, yet the only magic he wielded was a summoning spell to bring his robes to him (Instant Change).
Now that is some nice rules-raping. Even if the robes are taken away, he can instant change back to wearing them.

Doug McCrae

Mar 19th, '03, 10:02 AM

The GM at a convention game I was in ruled that knockback did knockback - so if you hit a wall, if you didn't go thru, you'd bounce off like a pinball. I argued about this a little but I gave up as I didn't want to get in the GM's bad books for prize giving. As it happened, I didn't win a prize anyway.

mattingly

Mar 19th, '03, 10:12 AM

Cool! I want those walls for my base.

Force Wall, Does Knockback.

:)

Agent Escafarc

Mar 19th, '03, 10:31 AM

Originally posted by mattingly
Cool! I want those walls for my base.

Force Wall, Does Knockback.

:)
oooooo!heheheheh make note to my self.....

Starcorp Man

Mar 19th, '03, 11:39 AM

Limitation: Only works under a full moon for a gun. Goes to use it in the game, gets told he can't. Replies "There's always a Full Moon somewhere..."

mattingly

Mar 19th, '03, 11:39 AM

Then there was the guy who tried to convince his GM that since no Characteristic could go below 1, that he couldn't be knocked unconscious...

TheEmerged

Mar 19th, '03, 03:48 PM

I had a rash of this when the first HERO computer character creator came out. Rule 1 of my character creation rules quickly became "Just because you can trick the program into giving it to you does not mean it's legal."

Oh, and for a while I believed you could put a Multipower in an Elemental Control.

misterdeath

Mar 19th, '03, 04:17 PM

In Enemies Assembled, Foxbat had a Gadget VPP.

Sample Gadget "Pingpong ball gun"-- you guessed it, a multipower.

Whoo.

D

Dynamo

Mar 19th, '03, 10:56 PM

Originally posted by Acroyear
Flash vs Common Sense
"It just makes them make stupid decisions for the duration"Would make a good Champions Minus item, though.

One player brought me an uber-hacker character with Transfer 3d6 Wealth to Gadget Pool, Ranged, No Range Penalty, Indirect, Extra Time (hours), OIF Available Computer, Delayed Return Rate (years), Concentration 0 DCV, Gestures, RSR Computer Programming, and number of other limitations piled on.

For very few points after the limitations, he wanted free semi-permanent points for his VPP. To top it off, he tried to convince me that the maximum effect of an adjustment power was per target, so he could add literally hundreds of points to his VPP over time.

We'd argued before, so I told him we weren't using the optional wealth rules to minimize my desire to kill him.

verbosity

Mar 20th, '03, 11:33 AM

Anyone who has played D&D has played with the guy who tried to use his ring of wishes to wish for unlimited wishes. Well, here is a funny twist on that type of thinking.

I recall a guy who declared his character couldn't be killed because he had wished for 325 PERMANENT hit points.

Oh really? 325? Why not just 1?

Law Dog

Mar 20th, '03, 01:27 PM

We were looking for new playing in an old fashion 250 game back around '91. My friend put up file card at the local game store and got a call from a guy named Phillip. My friend said he didn't think this guy was going to work out because he sounded like a grade-A paste-eater on the phone, but I figured we might be wrong (Axiom #1: Go with your gut). Phillip shows up for the supers game with one of the characters that ticks me off to no end, the displaced D und D character. Two main reasons I loathe this particular type of character, 1) It's trite and shows an inherent lack of imagination for a supers game and 2) everybody I've ever seen playing this type of character has always played it badly. So Phil (I tend to shorten up peoples names whether they want me to or not), hands me this "Golden Paladin" with limitations on the armor and sword like 1 charge and independant. He had managed to get everything down to (-5). I tried explaining it to him, but he insisted that once he turned on the armor and the sword (He defined the armor as summonable and the swords "on" was drawing it), that all he needed was one charge. He got whiney, I let it pass, he started acting like a spaz in game, the other two heroes beat him down royally and his character wound up in jail. We didn't see "Phil" again.

winterhawk

Mar 20th, '03, 01:54 PM

Originally posted by Law Dog
My friend put up file card at the local game store and got a call from a guy named... My friend said he didn't think this guy was going to work out because he sounded like a grade-A paste-eater on the phone, but I figured we might be wrong (Axiom #1: Go with your gut)..shows up for the supers game with one of the characters that ticks me off to no end, the displaced D und D character. Two main reasons I loathe this particular type of character, 1) It's trite and shows an inherent lack of imagination for a supers game and 2) everybody I've ever seen playing this type of character has always played it badly.

Are you my twin? A chronal duplicate of me? A clone?

I could have told this story with 'the names changed to protect the goofball'.

Law Dog

Mar 20th, '03, 02:01 PM

Originally posted by winterhawk
Are you my twin? A chronal duplicate of me? A clone?

I could have told this story with 'the names changed to protect the goofball'.

I'm an alternate personality. Check the IP address. It's YOURS!!!!

Que Twilight Zone music . . . .

On a more serious note . . . I guess there is a limited number or player personalities out there and when certain combinations get together, similar actions occur.

winterhawk

Mar 20th, '03, 02:13 PM

Originally posted by Law Dog
I'm an alternate personality. Check the IP address. It's YOURS!!!!

Que Twilight Zone music . . . .

The post is coming from inside the house!

Doug McCrae

Mar 20th, '03, 04:26 PM

Originally posted by Law Dog
He had managed to get everything down to (-5)...the other two heroes beat him down royally and his character wound up in jail.
With everything on a -5, how did they manage it? Golden Paladin must've been a monster of points efficiency.

Burnout

Mar 20th, '03, 05:30 PM

Dear god, -5 to everything? There's a lesson to be learned here- when you get a call from your card on the wall, always meet for the first time somewhere that isn't the gaming table. I've avoided many a moron using this method.

Sometimes personalities don't click, sometimes they're 12 (no offense to you mature 12 year olds on the board), sometimes they're mildly (or not so mildly) retarded.

Besides, its fun to pretend that you don't see the guy who is wearing the "I Loved European Enemies All Night Long" T-Shirt.

Klytus

Mar 20th, '03, 06:08 PM

One time we had a couple in our game, long time gamers, playing Champions since 1st edition, so I had no problems letting them into my 4th Ed game.

Problem is, they were both Class A-1 rules rapists. First, for all of their multi-point characteristics (DEX, BODY, CON and EGO) they spent an odd number of character points into the stats, using the logic that since fractions always round up in favor of the character, it gave them full values for the stats (Ex: spend only 1 real point on EGO and insist that because of "Champions math" your EGO of 10.5 rounds up to 11). They said this was a time honored method of point-tweaking in their group and they couldn't understand my objections to it.

Then there were the characters themselves. I forget the names, but let's call the husband "Time Dude" and the lady "Flight-Chick". Time Dude had NCM, SPD 3, and gadgets from the future, as he was a displaced time traveler. One of his gizmos was a belt that gave him +3 SPD, another one was a 10d6 EB gun. Flight Chick was a DEX 30 SPD 6 speedster with +6 SPD linked to her flight. I knew she would spend most of her time in the air, but with martial arts, her strongest attack was only 6d6 and not enough OCV to hit anything with a fast move-through, so I let it slide.

What made these two dangerous was how they teamed-up. Time Dude would crank it up to SPD 6, and Flight Chick to SPD 12.

So, on Segment 12, Time Dude would crank up to SPD 6 and hold his action, Flight Chick goes to SPD 12 and grabs Time Dude. On Phase 1, Flight Chick does a half-move up and waits, Time Dude shoots with his held action, then Flight Chick takes another half move to land someplace under cover. On Phase 2, Flight Chick forces a recovery while Time Dude holds his action again. On Phase 3, Flight Chick does another half move up with Time Dude in hand, who shoots, and then they land again. They simply kept using this pattern over and over again while the rest of the party gaped in disbelief at how cheesy it all was. Perfectly legal and within the rules... but that was the last time they ever gamed with us.

Law Dog

Mar 20th, '03, 07:34 PM

Originally posted by Doug McCrae
With everything on a -5, how did they manage it? Golden Paladin must've been a monster of points efficiency.

Well, a monster something anyway.. ;)

With his one charge armor and one charge sword, I'd say he way definitely a one shot wonder. Man, somebody taps your armor for a 1pip stun attack and it poofs. I let their attacks past right through his armor and no damage after the first attack with the sword.

gewing

Mar 20th, '03, 10:03 PM

In a sort of robot warriors/supergaladiator game I took in kind of a small transforming mech, because it was a vehicle it was more cost efficient... Well, actually no one really minded because the conventionally designed character kicked ass. Never underestimate the +12d6 ha claw(a la aliens cargo loader) on a suit of powered armor!

My friends have often said I need a +25 point "greg's character" lim. I'm kind of an anti-munchkin.

Killer Shrike

Mar 20th, '03, 11:32 PM

I once had a player in 4th Ed who thought his LS vs Intense Heat completely protected him from a fireball attack.

Went something like

Me: '[Wizard NPC] launches a flaming burst of magical force at you; it hits; you take [lots of damage].'

Player: 'No worries dude; Ive got Life Support vs that $#!%. I dont take any damage.'

The player totally could not understand how game balance could never allow an ability that cost a few points to counter any attack of a broad special effect bought in 5 to 15 point increments per d6; or if he were correct why EVERYONE wouldnt buy that power, or why subsequently no one would buy any such attack.

Logic was not his strong suit.....

Burnout

Mar 21st, '03, 12:06 PM

Originally posted by gewing
My friends have often said I need a +25 point "greg's character" lim. I'm kind of an anti-munchkin.

LOL, I think I could learn something from you then. My group used to have characters with just one, maybe two limitations on powers. I showed up and showed them how a 250pt monster could be built. Our games were never the same after that.

Frankly, I like characters that are intellegently built, not just figuring out how to skim as many points as possible. Kudo's to you!

winterhawk

Mar 21st, '03, 12:31 PM

Originally posted by Burnout
Sometimes personalities don't click, sometimes they're 12 (no offense to you mature 12 year olds on the board), sometimes they're mildly (or not so mildly) retarded.

And sometimes they're 35 going on 12, like a few of my players..."He said sex *giggle* *giggle*"

Originally posted by Burnout
Besides, its fun to pretend that you don't see the guy who is wearing the "I Loved European Enemies All Night Long" T-Shirt.

RFLMAO!

Another bad omen is when you ask them about their gaming style and they recount a 'war story' about how they defeated an Orc Army with Tenser's Floating Disk.

Gary

Mar 21st, '03, 03:32 PM

Silly power.

Here’s a semi-realistic power I originally developed for 4th Ed. This is a 5th edition upgrade. I don’t have the rulebook with me, so there might be some minor errors.

Summon 64 or 130 point suicide bomber with nuclear bomb (Screwed up 15 year old kid). Weak willed –4 to ego rolls (+0.5) 19 or 39 active points.

The special effect of the summons is that instead of appearing out of nowhere, the mad scientist must actively recruit the suicide bomber and actually build the bomb in a lab for the bomber.

Limitations: OAF expendable (Needs plutonium and a willing suicide bomber) (-1.5) Immobile (-1) (secret science lab) One week to prepare (-4.5) 1charge (-2) recover per month (-1) requires science skill roll and persuasion skill roll (-0.75) side effect (-1) (acquires 60 points of hunteds and bad reputations after use of this power!)

Real cost 1 or 3.

Suicide bomber:

6 Str –4
8 Dex –6
6 Con –8
6 Body –8
10 Int 0
8 Ego –4
5 Pre –5
10 Com 0
1 PD 0
1 ED 0
2 Spd 2
2 Rec 0
12 End 0
12 Stun 0

-1” running –2
-2” swimming -2

Char cost –37

Powers:

Nuclear bomb
15d6 RKA area effect radius (+1) affects desolids (+0.5) megascale (+0.25) Active points 619
OAF bulky (bomb needs a van to move around) (-1.5) 1 charge (-2) No range (-0.5) 5 minute activation (-2) side effect (-2) (death to user) concentrate 0 DCV oblivious throughout activation time(-1.5) gestures oblivious throughout activation time (-0.75) Real cost 55

If megascale is too cheesy, replace with X256 area (+2) for a 16 kilometer radius, 1012 active points and 90 real points.

12d6 major transformation is linked to blast. This transform simulates fallout, radiation sickness, blinding flash, etc. area effect radius (+1) affects desolids (+0.5) megascale 2 levels(+0.5) Active points 540 same limitations as above except linked (-0.5) as well. Real cost 46.

If no megascale, replace with X1024 area (+2.5) for a 55 kilometer radius, 900 active points, and 77 real points.

Powers cost 101 or 167 depending on whether megascale was kosher.

Total cost is 64 or 130.

The reason there is a 5 minute activation, concentration, and gestures (aside from the point savings) is that the mad scientist had a failsafe process installed so that the bomber won’t accidentally set off the bomb. The 5 minutes allows the scientist to cancel if he really doesn’t want to blow up Tel Aviv or Jerusalem, and the concentration and gestures represent that the bomber has to go through a precise series of steps to set off the bomb.

I guess I have to technically buy the van for the kid, but I didn’t bother. Vans are something common enough that points shouldn’t have to be paid.

For 2 real points and megascale, I could probably generate an antimatter bomb that would destroy the entire solar system, but I wanted something at least semi realistic. :D

Not bad for 1 real point. :)

Enjoy!

Burnout

Mar 21st, '03, 04:54 PM

Originally posted by winterhawk
And sometimes they're 35 going on 12, like a few of my players..."He said sex *giggle* *giggle*"

OMG! You said s-e-x!!! <giggle, snort>

Oh yeah. I'm mature.

keithcurtis

Mar 21st, '03, 08:12 PM

Originally posted by Gary
Summon suicide bomber with nuclear bomb
...snipped...
Not bad for 1 real point. :)

Enjoy!

You sir are forbidden from my games! You may go and play with Champsguy's martial artist.

Very funny. :)

Keith "What do you want to do with YOUR experience?" Curtis

Ndreare

Mar 21st, '03, 08:24 PM

I have a player that argues with me to this day that a symbiot living in her body, that cannot be removed without killing her and cannot be seen is a perfectly valid IIF -1/4 and Indipindent -2.

My argument is that this is a special effect and is actualy no more limitting than a character whos FX is hyper thiroid. He gets mad whenever it comes up including the fact that I denied the character as a valid character in front of the other players.

Dr. Rune

Mar 24th, '03, 04:54 PM

O.k, I thought of another one.........

When we first started playing 4th ed., some of our group thought that "Find Weakness" told if you had a 'weakness', such as x2 vs. sonics, etc....:))

GM: O.k, the Eradicator is using Find Weakness on Bearcat....(rolls 3d6)......he got an 8, so he knows you have a x2 vs electrical attacks....

Bearcat's Player: Say what?

Doc

CrosshairCollie

Mar 28th, '03, 06:43 PM

Two of my favorites were things people did on speedsters: Taking Personal Immunity on Running, so that they didn't suffer backlash damage from Move-Throughs/Move-Bys, and putting Invisibility to Sound on it, so they wouldn't hear you running or whooshing.

"No, that's Extra PD, or armor, or Force Field with a limitation, and Invisibility or Images to sound." "But this is cheaper." "What's your point? That just makes it more *wrong*."

My other is Accidental Change when you don't have another form allocated via Multiform, Shapeshift or the like. One guy had an Accidental Change into a falcon 14- when he was captured or tied up or the like. (He had no other even *remotely* related powers, so it was obviously twinking). I was feeling vindictive, so I let it go. He promptly got entangled, and it triggered.
"Okay, roll your accidental change."
"A 12, I changed. Now I'm free, and I'll ..."
"Actually, since you didn't pay any points to actually have a form with stats, you turned into an ordinary bird, which means you're scared silly, and after leaving a pile of (censored) on the pavement, you start flying away as fast as your wings can carry you."
"That's not fair!"
"Neither is taking a disadvantage that doesn't fit your concept, and is illegal because you don't have another form to change into. Now, you're away from the stimulus for your change, so we roll *clatter* and you change back. I think falcons can reach altitudes of a mile or better ..."
"But I can't fly!"
"Pity you don't actually have a falcon form, isn't it?"

Quite mean of me, but he had it coming. His whole character was like that ... not a character, just a pile of points.

Catacomb

Mar 28th, '03, 07:35 PM

We had a guy(uber-munchkin) that tried to get seperate disadvantage points for distinctive features from two different colored eyes.:rolleyes:

Law Dog

Mar 28th, '03, 08:03 PM

Originally posted by Catacomb
We had a guy(uber-munchkin) that tried to get seperate disadvantage points for distinctive features from two different colored eyes.:rolleyes:

OMG. Whatta dork. The couple of people I've seen with two different colored eyes, I'd call it a few extra points of comliness, maybe because it's exotic. This guy wants DF for it, then he gets like one normal eye and one hideously glowing eye or the second eye id the size of a pool ball.

kidsavior

Mar 29th, '03, 01:34 PM

Mine was a player that was convinced that taking Normal Characteristic Maximum automaticly gave you all your stats at NCM. Basicly a 20 point disad gave you 160 some odd points of stats for free. Took almost an hour to convince him that wasn't the case.

BNakagawa

Mar 29th, '03, 06:13 PM

I scanned a bag of Cheetos Twisted that has this symbol of a cheese wedge in front of a swirl with the words dangerously cheesy written around it.

Printed that out and made a button out of it. Bring it to chumps games to hand to the GM to award to whoever most deserves it.

Did this mostly in response to a player who spread a PKA defined as a gun for OCV while hitting a target on which he had found weakness. Technically legal, as it wasn't bought with the beam limitation, but...

then again a good cheeze monkey never lets little things like character concept or realism get in the way of combat effectiveness or cost efficiency.

$0.02

JmOz

Mar 30th, '03, 06:03 AM

Originally posted by Law Dog
OMG. Whatta dork. The couple of people I've seen with two different colored eyes, I'd call it a few extra points of comliness, maybe because it's exotic. This guy wants DF for it, then he gets like one normal eye and one hideously glowing eye or the second eye id the size of a pool ball.

I would allow this as a DF (A single, easily concealable, 5 points) as it makes the character easier to identify (IE who commited this crime, Mr Officer all I remember is that he had one green and one blue eye, thank you ma'am that is a big help)

BoloOfEarth

Mar 31st, '03, 09:00 PM

Hmmm... Ridiculous Rules Interpretation? Here's one from my old days...

A newbie GM (and former player in our group) ran a group of us against a villain group who was trying to steal something. We actually worked together well that day and were stopping them rather handily. The GM wanted them to get away with the target of the theft, so he has the bad guys' speedster grab it and take off. One of the player characters, Slash, could stretch for much faster running, so he takes off in pursuit.

The GM decided that Slash tripped over a fence, and slammed face-first into the ground. And since Slash was moving at 40" (noncombat), the GM ruled that he took 40d6 damage. He argued the physics of the situation, until the player said, "You ran a character with a wooden staff that shot blasts of air. What are the physics behind *that*?!"

Killer Shrike

Jun 16th, '03, 05:29 PM

Originally posted by CrosshairCollie
My other is Accidental Change when you don't have another form allocated via Multiform, Shapeshift or the like. One guy had an Accidental Change into a falcon 14- when he was captured or tied up or the like. (He had no other even *remotely* related powers, so it was obviously twinking). I was feeling vindictive, so I let it go. He promptly got entangled, and it triggered.
"Okay, roll your accidental change."
"A 12, I changed. Now I'm free, and I'll ..."
"Actually, since you didn't pay any points to actually have a form with stats, you turned into an ordinary bird, which means you're scared silly, and after leaving a pile of (censored) on the pavement, you start flying away as fast as your wings can carry you."
"That's not fair!"
"Neither is taking a disadvantage that doesn't fit your concept, and is illegal because you don't have another form to change into. Now, you're away from the stimulus for your change, so we roll *clatter* and you change back. I think falcons can reach altitudes of a mile or better ..."
"But I can't fly!"
"Pity you don't actually have a falcon form, isn't it?"

Quite mean of me, but he had it coming. His whole character was like that ... not a character, just a pile of points.

Hehe; this is just too funny. What were some of that player's other abuses, if you can recall?

(stumbled across this vintage thread on a search for something else)

CrosshairCollie

Jun 16th, '03, 06:59 PM

It's been so long (and I think I've tried to block it out of my memory) ... for a while, I kept his character sheet and another guy's as examples of How Not To Build Characters. I think his entire character, all the way down to the Background Skills, was bought with a Focus. Without his Foci (and he had about 8 of 'em), he was a 0 point normal. And, of course, he was a Brick/Speedster/Energy Projector/Mentalist/Martial Artist. Fortunately, he couldn't wrap his brain around VPPs.

And, of course, I had one big rule on Disadvantages ... I told EVERYBODY to be prepared to answer the question 'Why?' on every Disad on the sheet. They couldn't answer a single one. "Why do you only have one eye?" "He lost it." "How?" "Uh ...." "Why do you go Enraged when you hear a woman scream?" "Uh ..." You get the picture. As the phrase goes, they didn't create characters, they just created piles of points and abilities. :rolleyes:

Arthur

Jun 16th, '03, 08:47 PM

This was from a guy who used to GM Champions (I was a player in his game):

He ruled that any damage based on 'v' (such as "+v/3" for a Move Through) was based on distance travelled in the phase so far, not velocity! So if Rhino were moving at full speed but happened to hit his target after moving only 1 hex in the current phase he would get no extra damage from velocity!

The really pathetic part was that this guy had an engineering degree.

He wasn't a bad GM most other ways (other than still having something of a D&D class-based mentality and refusing to allow characters who didn't fit into his predefined pigeonholes - for instance, he wouldn't let my high-STR character have low resistant defenses and Regen, but he did allow high resistant defenses - "because that's what a Brick is").

Enforcer84

Jun 16th, '03, 09:09 PM

My favorite rules interpretation that got us into trouble was my friends martial throw damage shield.
Anyone who attacked his character was thrown. It was nasty.

It took me about three very frustrating adventures to throw a really heavy character at her. Then a mentalist. We worked it out and the way he had built it was like 120 active points worth of attack. Things changed...

lemming

Jun 16th, '03, 10:22 PM

A newbie GM thought this:
DCV is a defense right?
Find Weakness cuts your defense in half.

you do the math...

Lupus

Jun 16th, '03, 10:39 PM

These ones, I'm sorry to say, were mine. I apologise profusely.

'Touch' sense, ranged, armor-piercing. Touch is, I reasoned, 360 degrees and targetting by its nature. so by buying it ranged, I had cheap spatial awareness. And armor-piercing meant it could see through walls in the same way that armor-piercing teleport could get through hardened walls! (4th ed)

'Accidental change' into martial posture.

'trigger' applied to 'defensive shot' ranged martial maneuver. Trigger defined as 'when I decide to shoot someone.' This was complete with 8 targetting skill levels. Naturally.

Alibear

Jun 16th, '03, 11:48 PM

Originally posted by Lupus

'Accidental change' into martial posture.

I love this part. If you get surprised out of combat you automatically go into "cat stance" or whatever. I have seen myself do that before but with my "gaurd up", not cat stance obviously..:rolleyes:

Yep real nice way to greet long lost aunt May.

Lord Mhoram

Jun 17th, '03, 12:22 AM

Most of these were mine, back in the day.

One of the old Enemies had an RKA and EB linked... and I asked the GM about linking an RKA to an EB. The EB was a plasma wave and the RKA was a laser that lased within the beam. 15d6 EB, 5d6 RKA. RKA had beam. Linked attacks are the same to hit roll/CV. Ran into the major DCV based baddie, spread the EB for OCV and got +14 OCV with my RKA. Oh yeah they were two slots in the same EC.

Way back when we thought martial throw acted as a block, so we would wait for the attack, abort to throw, throw the opponent and do damage.

Designing a fantasy spell, as GM. I wanted something where the caster just touched a wall, and a few moments later it just started desintigrating. But I didn't want it killing people so it had Inanimate only as a lim. Built as 1d6 Body drain, recovers per geologic era, uncontrolled continous, sticky.
I looked at it the next day, my eyes widened at what I had built and I said nope- this spell does not exist.

Had a player that had an OAF bow and 50 STR TK only to get bow.

Built a supersuit doubledipping on OIF, Ohid, with the rationale that if it was just OIF, I could use the foci independently and not be in Hero ID.... Didn't really grock special effects there.

Had a GM who ruled that if you were stunned in 12, your post 12 was spent recovering from being stunned, as it was a recovery.

Was once a powergamer, but I'm much better now.

talisman

Jun 17th, '03, 08:53 AM

My favorite:
150 presence. This guy scared pretty much everybody all the time. He was a hippy, and even losing dice for situations, could pretty much just give the "peace" symbol with his fingers and make Mechanon run away

Tom McCarthy

Jun 17th, '03, 09:03 AM

A simple error this one, but it lead to a ridiculous situation.

A hero with a 2D6 RKA and FW 14- sets, braces, and rolls against Grond (4th edition, no LOW) 5 times ! Because he forgot the -2 per successive roll, poor Grond has about 1 rPD when the guy finally pulls the trigger. It took two shots to down him, and practically hospitalised him.

Kristopher

Jun 17th, '03, 11:11 AM

Originally posted by Catacomb
WAAAYYYY too nasty for anyone to have.

I haven't seen that, I don't have it here to look it up, but I'm not sure how NND would matter for an Entangle. It's still an Entangle, and would still have DEF and BODY based on the roll. Entangles don't act against the target's PD or ED anyway, do they?

Kristopher

Jun 17th, '03, 12:19 PM

After reading the thread, I have to say it...Wow, that's some creative cheesiness. Kraft would be proud.

Let's see...I can't think of any really cheesy moments in our Champs games. Some people might consider these cheese, but I was rather impressed by them.

1) 1d6 NND 1-hex AoE x5 Autofire on charges, in an OIF "Grenade Launcher on Power Armor."

2) A martial artist with light power armor to add defenses and STR and Flight.

Kristopher

Jun 17th, '03, 12:23 PM

Originally posted by Lord Mhoram
Most of these were mine, back in the day.

One of the old Enemies had an RKA and EB linked... and I asked the GM about linking an RKA to an EB. The EB was a plasma wave and the RKA was a laser that lased within the beam. 15d6 EB, 5d6 RKA. RKA had beam. Linked attacks are the same to hit roll/CV. Ran into the major DCV based baddie, spread the EB for OCV and got +14 OCV with my RKA. Oh yeah they were two slots in the same EC.

I would have ruled that both, or neither, would have to have the Beam limit.

Vondy

Jun 17th, '03, 12:39 PM

Originally posted by The_Hero
Had to chime in on this one...

Remember the whole "talking takes zero time" rule?

Well, we had a group that believed it all the way.

If a threat would come up, we had a team meeting on what to do about it that took 3 hours REAL TIME, even when the threat was immediate! The rule was intended as for use with one-liners and sililoquies.

We ended up having one session of briefing, one session of action, and one session of debriefing!

Makes perfect sense... if your playing the Superfriends.

Vondy

Jun 17th, '03, 12:40 PM

I knew a group that insisted package deal disads didn't count towards the characters total disads, and then only included the points paid for the package after disadvantages on the sheet.

Killer Shrike

Jun 17th, '03, 01:34 PM

Originally posted by D-Man
I knew a group that insisted package deal disads didn't count towards the characters total disads, and then only included the points paid for the package after disadvantages on the sheet. Thats not all that unusual. Ive seen this before in other groups, and even used it for 1 conversion to make easy bite-sized chunks (the goal was primarily to ween players to HEROs from other systems, so some of the more hairsplitting aspects were smoothed over with an eye towards simplicity).

TheEmerged

Jun 17th, '03, 01:44 PM

How about this one: Darkness, bought OAF Grenades, with the Trigger advantage set for "whenever I need it".

Or how about a mind control laser bought Area Effect: One Hex and then boatloads of Megascale?

Oh wait, those are from FREd and Champions :eek:

I gave my players a specific prohibition that said, "Don't even think about sending something like this my way".

Briguy123

Jun 17th, '03, 01:47 PM

I once played with a GM who allowed his pet NPC to use FTL only through electrical lines as an extremely inexpensive and infallible form of teleport. He was the GM that all those "How not to run a successful campaign" articles are based on. His story lines were rigid and his NPC's would always come and save the day because the challenges he presented were far beyond the PC's capabilities. The players were there only to witness the total awesome kewlness of the GM's NPC du jour. I think I lasted two sessions before I quit in disgust. What's sad is that this individual was well into adulthood.

Maccabe

Jun 17th, '03, 02:24 PM

There was this character who survived falling into a vat of chemicals, she became a classic brick BUT she was 100% blind

Well the player asked GM if he could replace it with something like; Susceptibility 2d6 Flash. (Blind only temporarily , like Hysterical Blindness)
It turned out that both were EXACTLY the same number of points ( 10 pts). So he lost no points in buying off the disad, and the character was 99% SIGHTED !
Anyone happen to know what happens when you roll a " 1" on a die for Flash results (HINT: NO EFFECT, NOTHING)
Even today I don't think that the GM knows what he allowed.

Klytus

Jun 17th, '03, 02:54 PM

Originally posted by talisman
My favorite:
150 presence. This guy scared pretty much everybody all the time. He was a hippy, and even losing dice for situations, could pretty much just give the "peace" symbol with his fingers and make Mechanon run away

Reminds me of my very first Dark-Champions style character: Trenchcoat. This was in 4th Edition, and I built a mostly-normal dude with an armored trenchcoat & fedora as his costume, a shotgun, lots of points into a vehicle, and 70 PRE. His M.O. was to come crashing into a place in his car, blow someone away with his shotgun, then made his PRE attack, which thanks to modifiers was a least 14 dice. Since Trenchcoat was a vigilante targeting street-scum, this would leave all of his victims helpless with fear while he finished blowing them away.

Once the GM saw just how gross this was, we ended the campaign.

Wyrm Ouroboros

Jun 17th, '03, 04:11 PM

Enforcer84

Jun 17th, '03, 05:47 PM

RKA; Damage Field, Ranged: This shot lightning bolts at anyone who used an attack against him HTH or ranged.

dbcowboy

Jun 18th, '03, 07:55 AM

Can't remember if anyone's mentioned these kinds of things yet, if so, my bad.

Near the end of our 3E Champions gaming with my old group, we'd degraded to completely and totally raping the computers/vehicle rules. I built a computer for my powered armor inside its elemental control with something like 24 SPD, Detect Incoming Attacks - Continuous, Analyse Incoming Attacks - Continuous, Counter Dangerous Incoming Attacks - Continuous, and a VPP for the purpose of, you guessed it, countering said incoming attack. Every phase it would have at least one full phase delay waiting to use it's VPP to negate the first attack an opponent launched at him. Whether that was encasing the armor in rubber to negate a lightning bolt or actually teleporting the character out of the way of a thrown bus, the computer was there to do it all. Character often had to take a half-phase to look around and see where he was after the computer acted, but that still left him half a phase to shoot someone.

Buddy build a vechicle with multiform so that once at the combat site it would convert into his armor, or was it his weapon - I forget. Either way, that 1 CP for 5 CP conversion made it an extremely cheap way to get nasty during the battle.

Only thing I can say is that the GM was just as bad.

Lord Mhoram

Jun 18th, '03, 08:28 AM

Originally posted by Kristopher
I would have ruled that both, or neither, would have to have the Beam limit.

Yep. The GM really is responsible for that construct. He looked at the character in the book (Lava in EI IIRC) and said "If you spread the EB, you can shoot the RKA with exta CV" and I said "Can I do that?" and he said "Sure".
So I pushed it.

bwdemon

Jun 18th, '03, 10:54 AM

I had a friend who performed blatant acts of rules bending/breaking and hid them out of a desire to protect his CharGen secrets. He was a big fan of "Secret Wars" style mass combats, creating characters of a given point base and having them brawl FNAR, an there was no need for a GM (no story), so we made the characters and went on an honor system. Eventually I'd find out what he was doing and show him that it wasn't legal, but until I found out, things were pretty rough. Here's the three worst offenses...

First, he thought that density increase added to your figured characteristics. Thinking this, he realized that one level of DI (old rules) was worth negative total points and he went nuts with it, making a character with 20 levels of DI. Before I realized what he was doing, this character found himself KO'd from a round of NNDs from a pack of agents. With 20 levels of DI, we couldn't get enough strength between all of the characters there to pick him up to carry him away from the scene.

Next, and this was his most abused effort, he discovered negative figured characteristics. Only one figured characteristic can be negative, but he neglected to remember this and started making characters with CON scores in the thousands. Almost overnight, his roster of characters got WAY more powerful. Eventually, I got him to fess up as to how he did it, showed him the rule, and that was the end of the problem.

Finally, I watched him roll his dice one-by-one and toss each successive die at any result that came up a 1 or 2 in order to change the result. As you can guess, this didn't last long either. Though it isn't a rule, it's pretty bad to see someone try to justify this...

For all the headaches caused by the above, there were still some good times, so I don't regret it. I just remember them as some of the worst examples of rules interpretation that I'd ever seen. :)

MarkusDark

Jun 18th, '03, 12:47 PM

One I remember well was actually 2nd Ed Champs. Where Vehicles didn't cost/use Endurance. My friend made a 'Transformer' character and since he was actually a vehicle/robot, he didn't need any Endurance.

I think he also tried to get away with no Stun as well. ;)

Brandi

Jun 18th, '03, 02:09 PM

Originally posted by Super Squirrel
A person created a tiered system for their character. He had four 'gears' and each had a new and harder activation roll to turn on.

Actually, *is* there any way this could be done without being abusive? The idea of powers that could only activate in a cumalative fashion is not an inherently bad one.

Lupus

Jun 18th, '03, 04:07 PM

I got another one! I got another one! Magical power - unluck, ranged. This is another one from my early days. I came up with it, as a GM, 'cause the girl who was playing the character was cool and... well, you get the idea. Ended up with 13 dice of unluck, with which she regularly caused enemy groups to suffer hideous penalties.

Killer Shrike

Jun 18th, '03, 04:08 PM

Originally posted by Brandi
Actually, *is* there any way this could be done without being abusive? The idea of powers that could only activate in a cumalative fashion is not an inherently bad one. Ive done this before, buying partially limited effect on down scaling ACT roles, and then defined it as 'one roll', get the aggregate effect. However, since the probability of making 1 roll is generally better than that of making several rolls, we prorated the ACT lim accordingly. I cant recall off the top of my head what the values were; we based it on the statistical likelyhood of making several rolls as appropriate to each step down the line.