Rifts HERO?

[gauss]

Has anyone done any Rifts conversions to the HERO system?

I love the background (though I admit it is cheesy), but damn if I don't pretty much hate the rules. Most of all, I hate the fact that it takes me about the same amount of time to create a Palladium character as it does a HERO character, but all of the Palladium characters of a particular class seem to be exactly the same.

Anyway, thanks to anyone who can point me in the right direction.

[cubist]

This is actually the project that I just started working on the other day. So far I'm working on conversions of the Classes. The way that I'm doing it is as templates that the character can buy with skills (and in the cases of some, powers) in them plus common disadvantages for that class. So far I'm basing this on 100 pt. base +100 pts. disadvantages with package disavantages NOT counting towards their total. This means that Juivcers are much more powerful than, say, cyber docs, but also have much greater problems. Like You, like the setting(well, okay, love the concept of it), but hate the system and the later directions taken with the game. This way, I get to change both the things that I hated about the original :)

[gauss]

Sweet!

Will you post it to the net when you are ready? I would really like to see it.

[Grymlynn]

Darnit, there was a couple guys on the previous boards whose names escape me, who did really good work building Juicers and Crazies on the old boards. I saved those write-ups, lemme see if I can find them...

[gauss]

Excellent! Thanks!

[Champsguy]

There was a big discussion of this on the old boards. I actually snipped some of them and saved them in a word file. I might still have it.

Here we go. Warning: there's a lot of stuff from me in this thread, so it might not be very interesting. :D Some of it might not make sense, since I didn't snip the entire conversation, just the parts I wanted for my own writeups.

Enjoy.

Champsguy:
Yech. RIFTS bad.
The starting idea wasn't so awful, but the execution was. There's lots of hackneyed writing, overused ideas, and bad plotlines. The history doesn't really make sense, either. I've got a hundred other complaints.

But that's just me.
If you really want to use RIFTS, there is a way to use mega-damage without things becoming too unbalancing.
In RIFTS, mega-damage is 100x more powerful than normal weapons. Personally, several individuals I know have scaled that back to only 10x more powerful (making sdc weapons of some use). Whichever way you use it (I recommend x10), it's fairly easy to simulate in HERO. +1DC is generally considered to be twice as powerful. Thus, 4DC is twice as powerful as 3DC. To get x10, you only need to add 3 dice. To get x100, you add 7 dice.
A normal assault rifle is a 1 1/2 D6 RKA (5DC, and probably about 5D6 SDC in Palladium). So that means that a 5D6 MD rifle would need to add either 3 or 7 DC to become mega-damage. If you add 3, then your 1 1/2 D6 RKA becomes a 2 1/2 D6 RKA (8DC). This is nice, because it puts you in the same league as VIPER blaster rifles, as well as Star-Hero weapons. That means you could find equivalent RIFTS-level equipment in Champions supplements. If you add 7DC to get MD, then your 1 1/2 D6 RKA becomes a 4D6 RKA (12DC). That's really nasty, but not too far gone to keep stuff in control. You'll just really be emphasizing the "instant death" part of RIFTS.
So here's a few weapons and how they would convert in a RIFTS/HERO crossover. Not that there's a little bit of rounding to get "the feel" right (like for the Boom Gun).
Weapon RIFTS damage at x10 at x100
Laser
Pistol 2D6MD 2D6+1RKA 3.5D6RKA
Laser
Rifle 4D6MD 2.5D6RKA 4D6RKA
SAMAS
Railgun 1D6x10MD 3D6 RKA 4d6+1RKA
Boom Gun 3D6x10MD 4D6 RKA 5D6+1RKA
x10 keeps weapons like the Laser Pistol in line with generic "blaster" pistols (about 6 or 7 D6 EBs). Boom Guns are still super-hero class damage.
This will mean that your armor will be a bit lower than some people may have expected (no 40/40 Armor for a Glitter Boy). Deadboy armor will be equivalent to VIPER armor (imagine that), at around 5/5 or 8/8 for the heavier stuff. SAMAS suits may have 12/12, while a Glitter Boy will be nigh-invulnerable at an 18/18. I suspect they all might have additional PD or ED (nonresistant), probably up to 1/2 the level of the Armor, to keep people from getting stunned to death. That extra PD and ED might be all that seperates MD armor from "normal" SDC armor. Thus, a Deadboy suit would have 8/8 Armor, +4PD/+4ED nonresistant. Given an average soldier's PD of 3, that means 15 total defense. This is superior to SDC plate armor (8 Def), which wouldn't have the extra PD and ED. SDC armors might also have a -1/4 limitation that halves their Def vs. "Mega-Damage" blasts.
So with this system, a laser pistol has a slight chance to do Body, and will drop a handful of Stun through on every shot vs. a Deadboy-equipped soldier. Meanwhile a Boomgun (4D6 RKA) will pop about 6 or 7 Body on the guy and knock him waaaaayyyy out in one shot. As it should be.
NuSoard:

I have designed many of the suits of armor, powered armor and weapons from RIFTS into Hero (for my Star Hero game) and your numbers are pretty close to what I came up with.
Deadboy armor was Def 5 (light) and Def 8 (heavy)
Samas was Def 12 (hard) and the Glitterboy was Def 20 (hard) with some Damage reduction.
The Samas Railgun was 3D6+1K with Autofire-5
The Glitterboy "Boomgun" was 5D6+1K Apx2
Its not too difficult to translate the stuff over. Just ignore the Mega Damage aspect and translate it as it should be for scale... (keep in mind that powered armor should be minimum Def-10. PA meant for heavy combat will oftentimes be hardened, and possibly have some damage reduction to represent durability)
I don't think the handweapons should do astronomical amounts of damage...5-12DC's is more than enough for infantry weaponry...

Nusoard:
Use elemental controls to buy the characteristic bonuses for Juicers and crazies and that cuts their cost down a lot, and allows them to fit into even a 150pt scale game (however a standard RIFTS game should probably run at about 200 points. Very few characters in RIFTS are "normal" and those that are usually have more skills than GOD)
Lets see:
Juicer Package Elemental Control:
10pt EC:
+10STR/+5PD/+5ED (20pts). Cost:10pts
+5Con/+5Bod (20pts) Cost:10pts
+7Dex (21pts) Cost:11pts
+2SPD (20pts) Cost:10pts
+5REC/+20End (20pts) Cost:10pts
+20Stun (20pts) Cost:10pts.
+5"(x4)running/+5"superleap (20pts) Cost:10pts
Total cost: 81pts (for 141pts worth of characteristics)
This gives the average man who goes through Juicer Conversion the following Base Characterisics base/max)
STR:20/30
DEX:17/27
CON:15/25
BOD:15/25
INT:10/20
EGO:10/20
PRE:10/20
COM:10/20
PD:9/15
ED:8/14
SPD:4.7/6.7
REC:12/18
END:50/80
STN:52/82
Running:11"(x4)/17"(x4)
Leaping:9"(x2)
Okay. This is just about right for a starting Juicer. Only costs 81pts (sheesh, only) and in a 150pt game, still leaves 69pts for skills and martial arts. Juicers are about 90% high characteristics anyway, so 69pts should be about right to flesh the juicer out the rest of the way (30pts worth of martial maneuvers and 39pts worth of skills and skill levels..)
Note, in the RIFTS main book it states that a Juicer can lift 4 times more than a nomral person of equivalent strength and endurance. This means an "Average" Juicer has a STR score of 20 compared to the average man's STR of 10 (20 can lift exactly 4 times more than STR 10), so the STR conversion is perfect.
It also states that a Juicer can last 10 times longer than the average man before feeling the effects of exhaustion. With a End of 50 and REC of 12, this is also nearly dead-on. (compared to Joe Averages End 20 and Rec 4)
It also states that Juicers can operate for 5 days straight without needing to sleep and only needs about 3 hours of sleep a night to operate normally (this can be simulated with the No need to sleep Life support power).
The average Juicer can run at 72kpg/45mph!!! in rifts. The Hero conversion can run 105kph/66mph. A trifle fast. A Juicer with Max Spd in RIFTS can run 118kph/73mph. A maxed out Juicer in Hero can run 244kph! If you drop the X4ncbt to X2, that makes an average Juicer run at 53kph/33mph and a maxed out run at 122kph/76mph. About right.
Juicers can leap about 30 feet horizontally. (9.1 meters). The 9" of leaping in Hero gives them the ability to leap nearly 60 feet! (talk about superleap!)
Juicers in RIFTS gain a bonus of +2D4 to PP (the Palladium equivalent to DEX) and +2 actions. The average bonus to +2D4 is +5. in addition to that Juicers gain +4 to roll with the punch and breakfall and +4 to initiative. To incorperate all that I gave Hero Juicers a +7 Dex bonus. The +2 actions I just translated straight over to +2 SPD bonus (the combat round in RIFTS is 15 seconds in length. The combat turn in Hero is 12 seconds in length. The conversion is pretty straight forward)
Rifts Juicers gain a +4 bonus to save vs Psionics and a +6 to save vs mind control specificaly. You might want to give Hero Juicers additional mental defense or Ego based on this. (but only a few points extra)
Rifts Juicers heal 4 times faster than normal. Hero Juicers heal 3 times faster than normal (Rec:12 vs Rec:4) which is close enough. Also it states that Juicers feel almost no pain (the bio-comp does this for them) and that Juicers will not be impaired by pain untill they are quite low on Hit points. This accounts for the ungodly amount of Stun that a Hero Juicer can aquire. Additionaly this also accounts for the higher CON (difficult to stun) and increased Defenses (ignore stun damage for the most part). An attack has to do a minimum of 25pts of stun damage to "Stun" a Hero Juicer. A martial artist with normal strength is hard-pressed to do that much damage, even with an offensive strike! GM's who want juicers to be really tough to take down should consider adding Damage reduction to the Elemental control (25% should be sufficient).
Note: Some GM's may wish to make the Juicer drug injectors OIF or IIF (I suggest IIF as they can be easily hid under clothing). If the drug harness is removed, the bio-comp must then rely on the body's natural chemicals to enhance the character. The bonuses should drop to half of what they are until the drug harness can be reattatched. With this method add a OIF or IIF limitation to the entire EC. This will reduce the cost of the EC and the slots appropriately. (total cost with OIF is 65. With IIF is 73)
The disadvantages of the Juicer are as follows:
Distinctive Feature: Juicer (identifiable drug harness)Easily concealable (under clothing) Causes major reaction/prejudice (10pts): The Juicer has the drug harnes throughout his body. Anyone with this system is immediately recognized as a juicer and will be seen as an immediate threat. Most normal people want nothing to do with them.
Watched: By employer (variable): Most Juicers get their conversion from powerful/rich warlords, who then require a term of service from the juicer. The employers would be considered more powerful with NCI because they usually surround themselves with bodyguards and in RIFTS, money talks. The watched is likely to be at least the 11- level because juicers are just too powerful to allow them to run around unchecked...
Psychological limitation: Drug addict: Common/total (20pts) if deprived of the drug harness or if the Juicer runs out of drugs they will go to extraordinarly lengths to get the drugs back. It is a complete and utter drug addiction. Without the drugs, the Juicer has horrible withdrawls, even worse than the ones suffered by extreme Crack or Heroine addicts.
Reputation: Juicer/14-/Extreme: (20pts) Almost everyone in the Americas knows what a juicer is. Stories about them are legendary (some are of Juicer heroism, but most are about their recklessness and lack of respect for life) and anyone recognizing the character as a Juicer will likely have all sorts of preconcieved misconceptions about them because of the tall tales...
Other psychological disadvantages include:
Reckless (common/strong)
Casual Killer (uncommon/strong)
Deathwish (common/moderate): This means that the juicer seemingly has no fear and will preform feats of impossibly stupid daring do, simply because he/she knows that they are already considered the walking dead.
Overconfidence (common/strong) Juicers KNOW they are the best at combat. No one can defeat them. (or so they think)

Thats my particular conversion of the RIFTS Juicer into Hero. Stay tuned for my Conversion of the Crazy.
As I promised earlier. The Crazy.
The Mind Over Matter project (M.O.M.) is an interesting way of tapping into hidden strength reserves in humans. Both more and less reliable than Juicer Conversion. (Crazies last a lot longer....physically, but go bonkers in about the same time as it takes for a Juicer to "burn-out")
Crazy EC: 10pts
STR+5/+3Con/+3Bod/+3pd/+3ed Active:23 Cost:13
Dex+5/Spd+1 Active:25 Cost:15
Rec+5/End+10/Stn+10 Active: 25 Cost:15
Enhanced Senses:
TrackingScent/+2perception/+2sight perception/+4Rmod-sight Active:26 Cost:16
Bio-Regeneration:
2D6Heal-aid Continuous(+1)Self only(-1/2)Concentrate-0DCV(-1)Extra-time5min(-2) Active:20 Cost:2
Psychic Power:
1 power at 20 Active points. Cost:10
Total EC Cost:71pts.
An Average Crazy should look like this (Average/Max)
STR:15/25
DEX:15/25
CON:13/23
BOD:13/23
INT:10/20
EGO:10/20
PRE:10/20
COM:10/20
PD:6/11
ED:6/11
SPD:3.5/5.5
REC:11/15
END:36/66
STUN:37/67
If you look at the RIFTS Crazy compared to the RIFTS Juicer, you can see that they have almost exactly half the bonuses that Juicers have. Thus, I gave them effectively half the same bonuses. However, Crazies have their senses greatly enhanced and the benefit of psychic powers. I intentionaly left the power undefined, as this will change depending on each individual Crazy. (The EC accounts for up to a 20 AP power with no limitations. Adjust the cost accordingly). Note that even though Crazies are considered Psychics, they were not given an enhanced Ego. That is because RIFTS crazies weren't given an enhanced Mental Endurance (the Palladium equivalent to Ego).
The Crazies bio-regeneration I wrote up as Heal-aid: Self only and not regeneration because first, it does not act automatically...and second, Aid mimicks the way Palladium does it better. Note that in RIFTS, Crazies can regen 2D6HP and 3D6SDC in 2D4Minutes. The average on 2D4 is 5, thus I just chose Extra-time:5minutes. Also, it states that if the Crazy remains in the Regenerative trance for 6 hours, all SDC and an Additional 4D6 Hp will be regenerated...thus I opted to build the Aid as Continuous. Every 5 minutes in the trance, the Crazy will regenerate 2D6 (up to 4 Body and 12 Stun) which will, on average, take the Crazy about an Hour to regenerate from 0body and Stun to full. This is one advantage the Crazy has over the Juicer, in the fact that the Juicer must heal normally (though, the Juicer heals 3-4 times faster than mundanes...its still MUCH slower than the Crazy)
Okay, now for the fun part.
The most important part that seperates the Crazy from everyone else....
Those Wacky Psych lims!
RIFTS system works for this pretty well because the Psych lims are both random and gained as levels of experience are gained. Hero, on the other hand, does not have Levels of experience OR random tables on which to roll Psych lims. Enterprising GM's can design a table..or just use the one in the RIFTS book and apply accordingly (my suggestion to start)
However, that still doesn't solve the problem of giving the crazy more Psych lims as he/she gains experience. What I suggest is that the GM give the character Psych lims for every 10pts of EXP the character accumulates. The GM should design the Psych lim and let the player know what is going on with the character now...this way, the player never knows what his characters psyche is going to come up with next. This does not mean that the GM should take control of the character by any means...this merely gives the GM the ability to afflict the Crazy with colorful psychosis to see how the player is going to deal with them.
Beginning Crazies should have a minimum of 30pts worth of Psychological limitations. The wierder, the better. (these the player can design).
My Guidelines:
Early on, the Crazy should just have a simple psychosis or two. An unreasonable fear (fear of flies?) or perhaps an annoying quirks (bites his nails...loudly) but as time goes on (i.e. gains exp) the psychosis should get more pronounce (old ones get stronger) and more varied (completely new ones) untill such a time that the characters mind Fragments (i.e. creates multiple personalities to handle all the Psychosis)
Minor Psychological Quirks:
These would be anything of a moderate level. Fear of heights, Mild paranoia and lecherousness are all good exmples. The Crazies beginning Psychosis should all start at this level, but get stronger as time goes on.
Major Psychological problems:
These are psych lims at the Strong level. Unreasonable fears, unusual behavior and wierd ethics all fall into this category. Get funky here, its okay (Fear of Gerbles, Delusions, etc)
Unbreakable Psych problems:
These are written up at the Total level. It takes a little while before the crazy develops these problems (30 or more experience accumulated). These Psychological problems can sometimes be downright dangerous, because the crazy cannot be convinced that they are not true. This is best used to represent serious delusions that the crazy is under, such as believing he is a superhero (because of his "powers") or that All Elves are secretly out to get him...beyond this, the mind tends to fragment, which brings us to...
Multiple personalities:
Multiple personalities occurs from some sort of trauma that a person does not wish to deal with. For the Crazy, it develops as a saftey measure so that the mind can continue to operate free of the stress of all its psychological problems.
Multiple personalities can be simulated with a combination of Psychological limitations and Accidental Change Limitation. Use the Accidental Change limitaion to see under what circumstance that a diffenrent personality has a chance of emerging. Split the various Psych lims (by this time, the character should have several) between the various personalities.
Of course, even after developing Multiple personalities, the Crazy will still be developing Psych lims (his mind will still be deteriorating) and those will get shuffled off to new personalities as they stack up. As a guideline, after developing multiple peronalities (around 50exp gained) the Crazy should develop an additional personality for every 20exp gained beyond that. Thus, a 240pt Crazy that started at 150pts, should probably have 4 personalities, minimum...(and upwards of 9 various Psychosis)
According to the RIFTS book, about 30% of Crazies suffer from Frenzy. This can also be considered one of their Psychosis and can develop at any point in a Crazy's career...
Stay tuned for the O.O.C....wait, I mean, Package Deals for both The Crazy and The Juicer.
Morningstar:

Okay.
Borgs should be easy.
First there's the Headhunters - they have one bionic limb. The limb itself should be bought to the Strength (properly rounded.) Ie: Amanda Kirk (my first Head Huntress, very high Comliness, I loved her) had a neat Bionic Arm.
I bought the arm as STR 25, 0 End, Right Arm Only -1/4, Does Not Affect Figured Str -1/2, Cybernetic Focus -1/4, Strength Independant of Base Char Strength -1. What does that last one mean? It means Strength starts at 0 for the Arm, and Amanda will have trouble if she tries to lift something more than her body normally could. For Example, Amanda can push the STR of the Bionic Limb to get a jeep off an ally, but she then takes 7d6 Damage for overstressing her body. The limb cost 13 points.
Cybernetic focus has been seen around a few places. I have Cyber-Hero, and I still can't quite fathom it. My interpretation - Cybernetics can be turned off or adversely affected by magnetic fields.
Mounted Weapons were either OIF or OAF depending on their vulnerability.
A partial conversion borg has a reinforced spine and skeleton, full limb replacement most likely, and a load of sensors in their head and body. Buy the Stats straight over, but round. A 24 STR isn't worth as much as either a 23 or a 25 STR. The Strength, Dex, and Running should be bought to 0 End (where appropriate), Does Not Affect Figured Characteristics, and Cybernetic Disadvantage.
To convert running, divide the final rate by 8, and buy the number of inches to reach that speed, and then give x4 NCM. (Say 122 yards gives you 15"x4NCM.)
Full Borgs buy Strength and Movement at 0 End. Instead of any of the previous limitations, buy levels of Growth, buy Damage Resistance to full level, but he has the Disadvantage: Physical Limitation: Does Not Heal, Must Be Repaired. A Full Conversion Borg is more robot than man. Since he can be deactivated, keep the Cybernetic focus limitation. Why lose "Does not affect figured?" Because you have a Brick, with snap-on guns. This Brick should have immunity to disease and aging, since most of his vulnerable organs are gone. Breathe Unusual should be taken too. Other life supports as necessary.

Champsguy:
Some more of my Rifts/Hero babblings:
I whipped up a few Rifts characters in Hero, and found that a good starting point for a fairly powerful Rifts character is 150 points.
Now, since it's a heroic power level game, you're not going to be spending points on mega damage weapons (you're gonna spend money on them). This also seems to mirror Paladium's view on external weapons and innate powers. One character has to spend PPE and attain 5th level before he can fire chronal energy blasts (5D6 MD) at someone, and it's a major hook of his character (I'm not talking about any character in specific, just a general Palladium trend). But anyone can pick up a MD rifle and shoot 5D6 blasts at people, without attaining 5th level and without having it be a major hook of their character.
This is good, since it means that a staple of the "balance" (and I use that term with as loose a meaning as possible) of Rifts is not disrupted. In other words, in Rifts, if a character has the innate ability to shoot energy blasts, then it's considered a major character ability that "balances out" against weaknesses your character might have (even if that ability sucks--virtually anybody with a magic sword is far better armed than a cyber-knight with his PsiSword, but he still counts it as a major part of his character abilities). This is the same as Champions charging a character points for an ability that can be duplicated for free by someone with a high powered weapon. The logic Siembieda uses is that your character can never truly be disarmed (unless they happen to have a Psi-Nullifier near you, and totally ignoring the idea that if they hadn't been given such a suck-ass power they might never have been caught in the first place). So we just carry that logic over to Hero and we charge points for innate abilities, but not for Mega Damage weapons. And I ask you, what is Rifts without Siembieda logic???
So anyway, 75 points + 75 in disadvantages seems pretty good. That lets you construct a nice juicer or crazy (are the juicer and crazy templates still up on this board? I forgot who posted them, but they worked well). The problem came when trying to make a SAMAS or Glitter Boy pilot. Do we charge points for the power armor? You could certainly build them as a vehicle. But even then, the expense becomes monstrous (even if you ignore the fact that a vehicle becomes much more expensive if it's more points than it's owner). So I decided to cheat. I made being a pilot of such a machine (which I ended up just building as a focus, since that's the way it plays in Rifts) a perk. It costs 25 points to be a SAMAS or Glitter Boy pilot. This represents training, security clearance, and a lot of other crap that allows you to effectively use the suit. If you're a coalition guy, it represents authorization. If you've got a black market suit, it represents those contacts. I suppose it could be broken down into individual contacts, smaller perks (5 point perk: coalition authorization for Samas use; 5 point perk: Samas training; etc), but I didn't feel any particular need for that.
How did I come up with 25 points? Easy. I didn't want one character to build a guy with 150 points worth of stats, skills, and abilities, and then be able to just grab a Samas suit as well, while another character took virtually the exact same skills and got stuck with Dead Boy armor. So again, Rifts logic came of use. A Samas pilot is an OCC. That means that there's enough training required so that not everyone can do it. Siembieda obviously thought that there was a difference between everyone running around with a laser rifle and everyone running around with power armor. So therefore it had to cost some sort of points, and not be free equipment. On the other hand, it's not unbelievably more powerful than off-the-rack stuff. Paying full cost for it would mean that nobody would take it. So basically, I fleshed out what I thought would be a good starting package for the Samas pilot (all the normal starting skills, decent stats, etc) and then looked at how many points were left over. The decent starting stats and skills (with a little extra for personal touches) put him at about 125 points, so I promptly decided that the extra 25 were a good price for the "Samas fee" and charged him that.
Now, on to defenses:
Remember, Rifts is Palladium and this is Hero.
In other words, certain Palladium game mechanics aren't gonna apply here. Just like you don't spend Endurance in Palladium, you don't have to worry about Armor Ratings here. If someone rolls a 4 to hit you, you're still gonna be protected by your armor (unless you buy it on an activation roll).
Also, just like in the D&D conversion to Hero, where Armor Class isn't represented by a simple modification to DCV, but as actual Armor (Full Plate isn't +8 DCV, but +8/8 Armor), the method for determining armor protection in Hero and Rifts will differ as well. Armor degrades in Rifts because that's the way Palladium handles it--that's their standard, regardless of whether it's in Heroes Unlimited, Palladium Fantasy, Nightbane, or Rifts. In Hero, armor doesn't degrade. That's not the Hero standard. It doesn't degrade in Champions, Fantasy Hero, Horror Hero, Western Hero, or in Cyber Hero. So in our case, armor won't degrade in Hero Rifts. If we were converting Palladium Fantasy, no one would advocate degrading plate mail (like there was something inherently different in the armor from that world), so why should it degrade in Rifts? Answer: it shouldn't.
So we have to go with the Hero standard: armor reduces damage taken per shot. This becomes a lot easier now, because you don't have to worry about funky ablative limitations. So you figure that a MD personal weapon should be able to hurt a guy in MD body armor, and likewise a MD power armor weapon should be able to hurt power armor. I gave a few examples earlier in this thread. A good measurement is probably +2/2 or +3/3 armor for each doubling of Mega Damage Capacity of armor (and then add half again that amount in non-resistant def for the obligatory "stun shield" to protect the occupant from getting knocked out too much). That seems to work pretty well. For vehicles, just use the base Armor (and not the increased nonresistant PD/ED), since they don't have to worry about Stun.
5/5 Armor (+3 PD +3 ED): 50-60 MDC
8/8 Armor (+4 PD +4 ED): 100-120 MDC
12/12 Armor (+6 PD +6 ED): 200-250 MDC (light power armor like Samas)
15/15 Armor (+8 PD +8 ED): 400-500 MDC (Atlantis power armor/large vehicles)
18/18 Armor (+9 PD +9 ED): 800-1000 MDC (Glitter Boys and other really, really tough stuff)
So a Glitter Boy would probably be around 17/17 Armor, with +9/9 PD and ED additionally. Add that to the 5 PD and 5 ED that the pilot probably has, and you're looking at a guy with 31 total defense. Most attacks will harmlessly bounce right off, even things like Samas rail guns. In Rifts, a boom gun will take 7 or 8 shots to down another Glitter Boy. Here, with a 4D6 RKA Boom Gun, that's an average of 14 Body and (assuming a x3 Stun multiplier) 42 Stun. So the pilot takes 11 Stun on an average shot (some will do much more, some much less). If you want, you could have the Glitter Boy give the pilot an extra 10 or 20 Stun, to represent it's durability even more. Probably one 1 out of 3 shots will put Body on the guy, and assuming a Body of 11 or 12, that's only 3 or 4 above average shots before the pilot inside is dying. Is it exactly the same odds as in Rifts? No. That's like 9 or 10 shots until he's dead, not 7 or 8. You can tweak the numbers bit by bit until it's really close. One damage class here, one point of armor here, and you can get the exact results you want.
Better yet, this lets you have Superman fly in and do a 25D6 grab and tear that Glitter Boy armor right off the guy (which is how it is in the comics). So then you don't have to use crappy Heroes Unlimited for you super-brawls.

Morningstar:
I'm glad you checked out the Kazei 5 borgs. As soon as I saw them, I was making a mental note to send you to Michael Surbrook's webpage which had a nice long, drawn-out description of Kazei 5 cyborgs - highly similar to Rifts Cyborgs.
Also, the Kazei 5 psychics seem ideally suited to a Rifts Supertelekinetic RCC.
Some points/thoughts on Rifts Conversions:
1) Preserve the OCC's/RCC's. They make good basises for Package deals.
2) Use Fantasy Hero extensively for demons, dragons and Deebee Racial Package Deals and Social Package deals. I'll see what I can do today for a Dragon Package Deal.
3) When dealing with weapon conversions:
Equate the Megadamage Weapon to an SDC Weapon. Find the equivalent in Hero. Add 6 Damage Classes. Voila, Mega-damage weapon.
4) For Mega-Armor: Don't forget that when you put on the Dead Boy Armor, you get +5 DEF Armor, you should also get full Damage Resistance for your DEF already. Buy the extra Damage Resistance as:
Damage Resistance: 10 PD and 10 ED are Resistant, Only up to DEF of User -1/2, OIF Armor. 5 pts.
Example.
Mike wants to buy a set of Heavy Dead Boy Armor as a focus, so that he can get it repaired without spending amounts of money on it - having it bought with points as a focus simulates Mike having an armor repair kit and a reserve of cash and/or spare parts devoted to his beloved armor.
The Heavy Dead Boy Armor is bought as:
a) Armor: +8rPD/+8rED, OIF Armor: 16pts.
b) Damage Resistance: 10 PD/10ED Resistant, Only up to PD/ED of user -1/2, OIF Armor: 5pts.
c) Life Support: Need Not Breathe (1 Charge lasting 1 Hour - 7pts), Safe in Radiation, Safe in Extreme Temperatures: 9pts.
d) +10 Presence, Offensive Only, OIF Armor: 4pts.
e) Radio Communication: Radio Listen and Transmit: OIF Armor: 3pts.
f) IR Vision: OIF Armor: 3 pts.
Mike's armor is worth 40 points. Note: This can be put towards Mike's equipment allottance, and remember, this armor puts him on a more equal footing with more powerful characters.
Just some thoughts. Anything else?
For the 50th post in this thread, I figured I'd lay a basic Headhunter on you.
Note: Without the package deal, Stetson is exorbandently powerful.
Name: Mike Stetson - Headhunter
Val Char Cost
18 STR 8
18 DEX 24
18 CON 16
12 BODY 4
13 INT 3
11 EGO 2
15/25 PRE 5
10 COM 0
6 PD 2
6 ED 2
4 SPD 12
8 REC 0
36 END 0
30 STUN 0
Characteristic Rolls:
STR: 13-, DEX: 13-, CON: 13-, INT: 12-, EGO: 11-, PER: 14-
Run: 6", Swim: 2", Jump: 4" long/2" high, Lift: 300kg/660 lbs.
Cost Powers END/Roll
3 Deadboy Armor Elemental Control 5 pt. Reserve, OIF Armor -1/2
13 a) Armor: +8rPD/+8rED, OIF Armor
3 b) Damage Resistance: 10 PD/10ED Resistant, Only up to PD/ED of user -1/2, OIF
Armor
5 c) Life Support: Need Not Breathe (1 Charge lasting 1 Hour - 7pts), Safe in Radiation,
Safe in Extreme Temperatures
2 d) +10 Presence, Offensive Only -1, OIF Armor
3 Radio Communication: Radio Listen and Transmit: OIF Armor
3 IR Vision: OIF Armor
40 Firebreather A-14 Assault Multipower (100 Point Reserve), OAF Laser Rifle, Two-Handed
Weapon -1/2
4u Assault Laser: 4d6 RKA, 4 Clips of 30 Charges (+1/2), Beam Attack -1/4, No
Knockback -1/4
2u Grenade Launcher: 3d6 RKA Explosion, 4 Clips of 4 Charges (-3/4)
1u Targeting Optics: +2 OCV
23 Vibro Knife: 3d6 HKA vs. ED (4d6 w/STR) OAF -1
17 Combat Motorcycle
6 Alert and Perceptive: +2 w/All Perception
18 Headhunter Combat (Dirty Infighting)
Maneuver OCV DCV Effect
(4) Block 8 8 Block, Abort
(4) Disarm 5 7 Disarm, 28 STR/35 STR w/Bionic Arm
(4) Elbow Smash/
Punch 6 8 5 1/2d6/7d6 w/Bionic Arm
(5) Roundhouse/
Low Kick 4 7 7 1/2d6/9d6 w/Bionic Arm
(1) Use Art with Bionic Arm
Cost Skills, Talents, Perks Roll
9 + 3 Levels w/Dirty Infighting
6 +3 Levels w/Forearm Blaster
10 +2 Levels w/Small Arms
6 Headhunter Package
(5) Headhunter Cybernetics and Bionics Elemental Control (5 Pt. Reserve)
(2) a) Bionic Arm: + 7 Strength, 0 END +1/2, Doesn't Affect Characteristics -1/2,
Right Arm Only -1/4, OIF Bionic Arm -1/2
(3) b) Retractable Finger Blades: 1/2d6 HKA (1d6 w/STR), Right Arm Only -1/4,
OIF Bionic Arm -1/2
(26) c) Forearm Ion Blaster: 10d6 EB, Beam Attack -1/4, OIF Bionic Arm -1/2, Feeds off
END Reserve
(2) d) Headjack: Mind Link, Any One Mind, Only With Computerized Items -1, Cybernetic -1/4
(4) Ion Blaster Power Battery, END Reserve: 30 END, 3 REC, OIF Bionic Arm
(3) Criminology: 12-
(3) Streetwise: 12-
(3) Survival: 12-
(3) Tracking: 12-
3 Well Travelled
6 AK's @ 11-: Coalition Northern Gun Territory 11-, Coalition: Chi-Town Territory 11-, Lazlo
11-, Ishpimeg 11-, Free Quebec 11-, Tolkeen 11-
3 Scholar
5 KS's @ 11-: Coalition Military Forces 11-, Common DeeBees 11-, Common Monsters 11-,
Wanted Fugitives 11-, Rifts North America Hotspots 11-
3 Combat Driving: Motorcycle 13-
3 Navigation: 11-
3 Demolitions: 11-
3 Gambling: 11-
3 Trading: 12-
5 Wealth: Well Off
1 Literacy
150+ Disadvantages
3 Headhunter Package Bonus
5 Package: Distinctive Features: Headhunter (Easily Concealed, Noticed and Recognized)
15 Package: Distinctive Features: Bionic Limb(s) (Not Concealable, Noticed and
Recognized)
15 Package: Psych Lim: Headhunter's Code of Honor, Common, Strong
10 Package: Reputation: Headhunter (Gun for hire) 11-
15 Psych. Lim: Hates Bigotry of Any Kind, Common, Strong
10 Psych. Lim: Vengeful, Uncommon, Strong
25 Hunted: The Coalition, More Powerful, NCI, 11-, Harsh
10 Enraged: Innocents are Harmed, Common, 11-, 11-
15 DNPC: Geeluk (DeeBee Child), Incompetant, Useful Skills, 14-
10 Reputation: Outlaw Headhunter Fighting the Coalition, 11-
5 Rivalry: Other Headhunters (Professional)
10 Phys Lim: Cannot Heal Damage to Bionics, Needs Specialized Technical Assistance,
Infrequently, Greatly.
15 Hunted: Renegade Magician Whose Plot Was Foiled, As Pow, 11-, Harsh
31 Experience
Equipment: 119 points.
OCV: 6; DCV: 6; ECV: 4; Mental Def.: 0; Phases: 3, 6, 8, 12
PD/rPD: 14/14; ED/rED: 14/14
COSTS: Char.: 78 Disad.: 184
Powers: + 87/206 w/Equipment Base: + 100
Total: = 165/284 w/Equipment Total: = 284
Stetson is a throwback to the old Wild West, pre-Rifts, except, that instead of a Winchester Lever Action and a trusty six-gun, he has a six-shot ion blaster in one forearm and an assault laser rifle and a grenade launcher. He's a man of honor and tolerance for the differences of life, to a point where he has become a hated enemy of the Coalition States. One such conflict resulted in Stetson picking up a small DeeBee child of psychic ability named Geeluk and caring for her. She refuses to go with anyone else, but in a fight will stay well hidden while Stetson goes to town.
In combat, Stetson tries to keep some distance between himself and his enemies, unless he's bringing in a bounty. Then he closes to hand-to-hand range and gives as good as he can, relying on his quickness and the bionic strength of his right arm. If he can't handle the enemy with mere muscle, he resorts to his Vibro-Knife and finger blades.
Nusoard:

RIFTS CONVERSIONS:
THE CYBERKNIGHT
5pt elemental control(5):
+3STR/DEX: ACT(12) REAL(7)
+3CON/BOD: ACT(12) REAL(7)
+4PRE/+3EGO: ACT(10) REAL(5)
+1SPD: ACT(10) REAL(5)
+10STN: ACT(10) REAL(5)
PSI Sword-1D6HKA(15)AP(+1/2)0End(+1/2): ACT(30)Real(25)
Cost: 59
Optional PSI Powers:
Note: Many Cyberknights train their mind to the point where they develop Psi powers in addition to the Psisword. Any psi power is applicable. In general these are limited to 30 active points or less at the start and limited in number as well. Add any Psi powers to the Elemental control. Common powers include:
Empathy: (Telepathy, only to read targets emotional state. Includes Detect emotions which is bought targeting)
Mind Block: (+10 Mental Defense, Resistant. Additional abilities include 25% Mental Reduction)
Object Read: (Clairsentience: Retrocognition...based on Focus)
See the invisible
Sense Evil (targeting of course)
Sense Magic (also targeting)
Sixth Sense (danger sense, out of combat, anyone near)
Speed Reading (pretty straightforward)
Summon inner strength (+10STN/+5CON[not af figured] Cost end)
note that the above abilities are typical, but by no means indicate the only abilities a Cyberknight exhibits. Any Psi power can manifest.
Note that the Cyberknight has extensive physical and mental training which is similar to the training that Shaolin monks recieve, and is reflected in the above statistics in the EC. All of the Characteristics DO affect figured characteristics.
Here's the Skill package:
Literacy (w/American): 1pt
Language (Elven/Dragon): 2pts
Language (pick two at basic proficiency): 2pts
KS: Demons and Supernatural evil at +1: 3pts
KS: Anthropology: 2pts
Paramedic: 3pts
Navigation: 3pts
Riding: 3pts
Climbing: 3pts
Acrobatics: 3pts
WF: Small arms: 2pts
WF: Common Melee: 2pts
15 points worth of Martial Arts Maneuvers.
Perk: Fringe Bennie-Cyberknight: 5pts
Skill package 48 points.
Note that the Fringe benefit, CyberKnight means that when the character is recognized as a Cyberknight in many places he will be the object of adulation by the population at large. This is a two sided coin in the fact that, yes, the CyberKnight will often get free food, clothing, gifts, lodging, sex (yeah, the chicks dig them...too bad most C-Knights are boyscouts and turn it down) but they also will be hunted by the Coalition, by evil warlords and intelligent evil beasties. They will also get approached by peasants who will have problems they believe the C-knight will be able to solve...oftentimes problems big enough to get the knight killed.
The following are typical Disadvantage found in Cyberknights:
DNPC: It is common for knights to take on an apprentice. This "squire" will be a burden on the knight until such a time that he is skilled enough to hold his own. Oftentimes knights will be given charge to protect someone for an unspecified amount of time.
Distinctive Feature: Many knights (though not all) dress the part. They wear medieval style armor (though still high tech in manufacture and function), ride war horses (though sometimes Cybernetic or robotic in nature) and use melee weapons (teched out of course) against even advanced opponents. Their behavior as well, is oftentimes so pronounce, it identifies them almost instantly.
Hunted and Watched: More often hunted than watched. The Cyberknight monastery is so remote, that it cannot keep tabs on all of its knights...though certain knights will be watched at times. The Coalition states has a bounty on all Cyberknights, so this is a given.
Psychological Limitation: there are many that would apply, but the main one's include:
Code of the CyberKnight: this is required of all knights. It is a cross between the Code of Chivalry, Code of Bushido and Code of Honor. For most knights it is Common and Total. Any knight who does not follow this code will be brought in to face justice at the monestary by their fellow knights.
Public Identity: Many Cyberknights exploits become legendary. In certain areas, cyberknights often become figures of tall tales. Particularly famous Cyberknights are treated like the Rifts equivalent to a 21st century Movie Star or Rock Star.
Reputation: Cyberknights definately have reputations. If a person is revealed to be a knight, most people how certain preconceptions about them. This can often work against a knight as it will work for them.
Rivalry: A friendly rivalry often arises between knights during their training period. Sometimes Cyberknights and Undead Slayers compete on who is the better slayer of evil.
Secret Identity: Some Cyberknight prefer to go incognito. The amount of attention a cyberknight generates is just too much for their tastes...so they don't dress like a cyberknight, or overtly act like one (or the obvious ones in anycase).
There you have it. The Cyberknight.
Affordable in a 150point game, and not too shabby on the physical side as well.
The Cyberknight package includes most of the skill necesary to get along in the world of Rifts (except for maybe Powered Armor or vehicle piloting) and even after purchasing the Skill package and the basic EC, there is still 43 points let to customize with in a 150 point game or 93 points(!) left in a 200 point game.
Note that the Cyber Armor was left out. I think it should be player choice whether or not their character employs the cyberarmor. In anycase, use subdermal armor characteristics foundin Kazei-5 (should use Subdermal-3 costs 8 points for 7DEF armor which covers locations 9-12)
Morningstar:

Juicer fixer...
Juicer Package Elemental Control:
10pt EC:
+10STR/+5PD/+5ED (20pts). Cost:10pts
+5Con/+5Bod (20pts) Cost:10pts
+7Dex (21pts) Cost:11pts
+2SPD (20pts) Cost:10pts
+5REC/+20End (20pts) Cost:10pts
+20Stun (20pts) Cost:10pts.
+5"(x4)running/+5"superleap (20pts) Cost:10pts
Total cost: 81pts (for 141pts worth of characteristics)
3 Juicer Amplification Elemental Control, All Stats OIF Juicer Chemical Collar -1/2,
5 point Reserve
2 a) Increased Physique: +10 STR, Does Not Affect Figured -1/2
10 b) Increased Agility: +7 Dex, Does Not Affect Figured -1/2
2 c) Increased Endurance: +5 Con, Does Not Affect Figured -1/2
2 d) Increased Physique: + 5 Body, Does Not Affect Figured -1/2
3 e) Increased Durability: +5PD/+5ED, 5
10 f) Increased Reflexes: +2 SPD
3 g) Increased Endurance: +5 REC
3 h) Increased Endurance: +20 END
10 f) Increased Durability: +20 Stun
7 g) Increased Mobility: +5" x 4 Mobility
Total Cost: 55 points for 126 points worth of Characteristics.
Now for the disadvantages:
15 Phys Lim: Addicted to Juicer Collars, Frequently, Minor
15 Dependance: Juicer Collar (15 points worth, I'm without my book)
15 Phys Lim: Juicer Drugs Will Kill Character 4-8 Years From Getting Juicer Collar.
So, let's say 10 points for being a Drugged Up Superman...
Except you aren't gonna live a long time in game time.
Temporal Wizards should be able to stack up Juicers like cordwood with just a wave.

Champsguy:
My thoughts on Rifts and ECs:
There's nothing wrong with giving Juicers and Crazies ECs, since the GM is writing them up. Sure, if players were doing the writeups, you'd have a problem. But since the GM defines everything, it's safe. So really, there's not much difference between giving a Juicer an EC and giving him an extra 60 points.
There is however, one reason I came across to allow the use of ECs. Rifts has unbalanced character classes by nature. Players and GMs alike know that a juicer is gonna beat the hell out of a squad of coalition soldiers. As it is (using the ECs, and not paying points for weapons), I found that you can build a nice juicer for 150 points. But if you try and build an average coalition grunt on 150 points, he becomes waaaaaaaaayyy too skilled. Remember, these are guys who can't even read. They're much more accurate if they're built on 100 points. So basically, you've got a breakdown of expense:
At the top of the list:
Cyberknights--the combination of cybernetics, psionics, combat abilities, and skills results in a high cost. 150+ points for a good conversion.
Juicers and Crazies are next. The EC gives a good cost break to these powerful character classes. They don't have a lot of skills, but they make up for it with high stats. 150 points.
Power armor pilots--these characters have good stats and lots of skills. I charged a 25 pt "power armor fee" that bumped them up to 150. Otherwise, 125 points for a solid character.
Grunts--these guys aren't as highly trained as their power armored brothers. If built on 150 points, then they've got way too many skills. 100 points.
Basically, to build a good Juicer/Crazy/Cyber Knight without some kind of cost break is gonna mean that they're gonna be twice as expensive as another character. Putting in the EC gives you a little similarity in point costs, at least. Even then, some characters are gonna be less than others. Any skill character built on a full 150 are gonna have about all the skills they'll need. Champions stats convert almost straight across, so most'll have stats in the 13-18 range (for their good stats) or 10-15 (for their average stats). That means they'll have a ton of points left for skills. That's way more than your average city rat needs.
There's one more reason to allow the EC. Rifts has its own internal "balance" to it. Giving Juicer ECs helps keep that balance. After all, a juicer gets his stat bonuses from a juicer harness and drugs. A pilot gets his from a SAMAS suit. Why should one pay the full points for his stats, while another gets his for free? That's why it's acceptable to give juicers a cost break.

[gauss]

Thanks Champsguy! This should prove helpful.

[cubist]

Wow, thanks Champsguy, I might not use all of that stuff, but it was nice to get it for a sort of effort reduction method on my part.

[Grymlynn]

Champsguy, you da bomb! That was precisely what I was talking about, but I couldn't find it... So, I believe I'll be using the ol' cut&paste...

[Shadowpup]

That was a good read except mega damage weapons are 10,000% more powerful than standard weapons. The point being that if you were hit by the most rinky dink mega damage weapon you would die unless you had mega damage armor. Pretty minor point.

[Champsguy]

Originally posted by Shadowpup
That was a good read except mega damage weapons are 10,000% more powerful than standard weapons. The point being that if you were hit by the most rinky dink mega damage weapon you would die unless you had mega damage armor. Pretty minor point.

That was addressed in the discussion. To put it bluntly, we went with "that am stupid and us change it to make better".

Also, Rifts has a little problem with their damage numbers. You see, a modern day tank has about 800 SDC. A mere 2D6 MD pistol will blow up a tank a good portion of the time. However, 2D6 MD isn't even 100 times as powerful as a standard palladium handgun (3D6 to 4D6 SDC). Why is that a problem? Because, in real life, if you shoot a weapon that's 50 to 75 times as powerful as a 357 magnum at a tank, you're still not gonna do jack to the tank. Anti-tank weapons are hundreds (plural), if not thousands of times more powerful than normal handguns. Rifts' numbers am skewed in the first place. Therefore we felt okay with tweaking the numbers towards our tastes.

[cubist]

Champs, one thing I noticed on quickly perusing that file(have not yet had time to read through it)- what's up with using ECs for Juicers and Crazies- I mean it is less expensive, but characteristics other than strength cannot go into ECs, right? Otherwise, nifty stuff that I'm looking forward to sifting through.

[Champsguy]

Originally posted by cubist
Champs, one thing I noticed on quickly perusing that file(have not yet had time to read through it)- what's up with using ECs for Juicers and Crazies- I mean it is less expensive, but characteristics other than strength cannot go into ECs, right? Otherwise, nifty stuff that I'm looking forward to sifting through.

Well, two things. One, this is a little old, and 5th Edition was only a pipe dream when we were discussing this. Two, there might be some discussion in there as to why ECs were used (and there might not). I snipped a lot of the conversations, but that was only so I could access certain stuff while offline (thus a lot of stuff got left out). There was a large debate on using ECs, and it may or may not be in there. The general idea was that Juicers and Crazies can be on the same teams as Borgs, City Rats, and Glitter Boys. ECs were some attempt at giving everyone a similar starting point level. There was, however, much disagreement as to whether we should even bother with that.

I'm not really advocating one way or another.

[Shadowpup]

Originally posted by Champsguy
That was addressed in the discussion. To put it bluntly, we went with "that am stupid and us change it to make better".

Also, Rifts has a little problem with their damage numbers. You see, a modern day tank has about 800 SDC. A mere 2D6 MD pistol will blow up a tank a good portion of the time. However, 2D6 MD isn't even 100 times as powerful as a standard palladium handgun (3D6 to 4D6 SDC). Why is that a problem? Because, in real life, if you shoot a weapon that's 50 to 75 times as powerful as a 357 magnum at a tank, you're still not gonna do jack to the tank. Anti-tank weapons are hundreds (plural), if not thousands of times more powerful than normal handguns. Rifts' numbers am skewed in the first place. Therefore we felt okay with tweaking the numbers towards our tastes.

Oh no agree, I was just stating that your numbers were a little off. I found it distracting that no matter how tough you are in Rifts, if you aren't wearing armor, you're dead. The thing that threw me off was the whole "wow! this guy has have over 200 hp!...oh yeah, so what?"

[Champsguy]

Originally posted by Shadowpup
Oh no agree, I was just stating that your numbers were a little off. I found it distracting that no matter how tough you are in Rifts, if you aren't wearing armor, you're dead. The thing that threw me off was the whole "wow! this guy has have over 200 hp!...oh yeah, so what?"

Yeah, it irritated me too. That's why I lowered it to x10 damage for the conversions (although I think there are a few notes in there for making it the usual x100).

[cubist]

Yeah, when you said old list and then I saw that I was thinking that it might have been a while ago, but just making sure. The idea that I had for leveling out the Juicers, Crazies, Borgs, etc. was to put their powers into a package with class defining skills and then apply class common disadvantages to it, reducing the package cost but the Disadvantages would not count vs. character's total- basically use the Pre-5th package plans with no package discount for the skills.
Thanks for the clarification.

[Warp9]

Thanks for the Rifts conversion stuff Champsguy--it was very enlightening--and very cool.

I do have a question about something in the conversion relating to Juicers.

Specifically the place where you note the following:

"Note, in the RIFTS main book it states that a Juicer can lift 4 times more than a normal person of equivalent strength and endurance."

I have always read that statement as : "a Juicer can lift 4 times more than a normal person of equivalent (referring to the Juicer) strength and endurance."

I may be wrong, but I have always taken the statement from the Rifts book to mean, that one figures out how much the juicer could lift just based on his strength, as you would for a normal character, and then multiply it by 4. And the multiplication, when compounded with the Juicer's already high strength attribute, results in the Juicer coming out far stronger than a normal person.

You are obviously reading the statement as follows: "a Juicer can lift 4 times more than a normal person of equivalent (referring to the normal person) strength and endurance."

I was wondering if you had any specific data to back up your interpretation of the statement. . . .

[cubist]

I was sort of wondering about that too Warp9, the way I originally wrote my Juicers was with +10 strength, only for lfting(-1), O end cost(+1/2), for 7 points.
I also did this with crazies, giving them +5 strength, only for lifting(-1), 0 end(+1/2), cost 4 pts.

So far, I have conversions for the Juicers, Crazies, Cyberknights, Borgs and just starting the Headhunters...

When this thing is finished, would anyone be interested in trying it out as a PBEM? I've only Gm'd a few times but would love to give it a shot, especially with the great gamers hee on these boards :)

[Evil Steve]

Back when I was living in the Frosty North, some of us wanted to play Rifts using hero. We never really did, but I did a lot of Vehical conversions.

I got the process down to a fairly simple formula (this from someone who tanked out on higher maths)

Rifts to Hero Vehical Conversion notes

[main body/5]/[size level increase+1]=additional Body and total Def (Round up)

Therefore: A Death's head has 15 Size increases to make its length by width measurements and a Main Body MDC of 1300

[1300/5]/[15+1]=additional body and total def

[260]/[16]

16.25 rounded up to 17 additional body and 17 total def

Additional body does not include body granted by the size level increases

I've also got Power Armour conversions, but I can't remember the formula for that one (I think it was the same as above but generated Maximum Body/Def rather than additional).

They're in Herocreator format, but if you want them, I'll gladly beam them up.

[Dynamo]

Originally posted by Shadowpup
That was a good read except mega damage weapons are 10,000% more powerful than standard weapons. The point being that if you were hit by the most rinky dink mega damage weapon you would die unless you had mega damage armor. Pretty minor point.
Uh...

10,000% = x100

[tenebre]

wow someone liek me also.

i love rifts idea, but the game is the worst ever!

my biggest issue is nothign is balanced at all!!

but this is a great idea. I think the HERO crew should just create their own post apocalyptic world :-)

[AlHazred]

Originally posted by Dynamo
Uh...

10,000% = x100

Beat me to it...

I play in a Rifts HERO game, but we're only using the setting. The buildup is the PCs are a small military unit from 2015 who are sent to do crowd control in some rioting city (can't remember which one it was). Anyway, we're flying the copter there, when we enter a rift (they had just started showing up). We ended up in the Rifts world, not sure whether or not it was ours.

It's been a blast so far. Can't wait to see where it's going...

[Dynamo]

Originally posted by AlHazred
I play in a Rifts HERO game, but we're only using the setting. The buildup is the PCs are a small military unit from 2015 who are sent to do crowd control in some rioting city (can't remember which one it was). Anyway, we're flying the copter there, when we enter a rift (they had just started showing up). We ended up in the Rifts world, not sure whether or not it was ours.
Sounds like a good game.

I played in a GURPS Rifts game (that's a hernia waiting to happen) and found the setting to be amazingly portable. I think Hero would handle a number of things better than GURPS, like Juicers and mega-damage weapons & armor (though ANY well-integrated cross-genre rules engine would do a better job than the travesty of a "system" that is Palladium), but I have to say that the library of off-the-shelf genre elements already expressed in game mechanics available to GURPS players made preparation for the campaign a snap.

[Champsguy]

Originally posted by Warp9
Thanks for the Rifts conversion stuff Champsguy--it was very enlightening--and very cool.

I do have a question about something in the conversion relating to Juicers.

Specifically the place where you note the following:

"Note, in the RIFTS main book it states that a Juicer can lift 4 times more than a normal person of equivalent strength and endurance."

I have always read that statement as : "a Juicer can lift 4 times more than a normal person of equivalent (referring to the Juicer) strength and endurance."

I may be wrong, but I have always taken the statement from the Rifts book to mean, that one figures out how much the juicer could lift just based on his strength, as you would for a normal character, and then multiply it by 4. And the multiplication, when compounded with the Juicer's already high strength attribute, results in the Juicer coming out far stronger than a normal person.

You are obviously reading the statement as follows: "a Juicer can lift 4 times more than a normal person of equivalent (referring to the normal person) strength and endurance."

I was wondering if you had any specific data to back up your interpretation of the statement. . . .

Sorry it took me so long to respond. Washington DC has been snowed in, and I can only access the internet from school.

I really don't have an answer for you on this. These conversions were NuSoard's, and I just swiped them. I was never a big Rifts fan, but had this real thing for converting from one game system to another. I always just assumed that you calculated what a juicer could lift from his strength and multiplied by 4. Of course, it's your game, so you can do it however you like. :)

[NuSoardGraphite]

Yes in Rifts, you calculate what the Juicer can lift normally, then multiply by 4. This is AFTER figuring in the PS bonus for being a Juicer. (and for Martial Arts and Boxing and Gymnastics etc)

M.
U.
N.
C.
H.
K.
I.
N.

Spells RIFTS!

[ShadowRaptor]

Originally posted by cubist

When this thing is finished, would anyone be interested in trying it out as a PBEM? I've only Gm'd a few times but would love to give it a shot, especially with the great gamers hee on these boards :)

Sure I would be willing to join if it is possible.

[ShadowRaptor]

I know this is a drag, but to avoid any possible repercusions from KS at Palladium perhaps it would be wise to change the names of a few things, if only to avoid legal action. I am sure if he got wind of this discussion he would charge in and demand it stopped immediately, and I love the conversions so far presented.

That said, I hvae a quesiton: Why would it be bad to use the EC for racial packages/class packages? It makes sense to me, and it doesn't specify in the rules that they can't be done, right??? or I might have missed that when I read them last night, but then there is the almighty rule in the back...if something gets in the way of how something else works, either change it or do away with it... so take that into consideration also.

[KawangaKid]

Yeah we should call it... RAFTS.

[Doug McCrae]

Originally posted by ShadowRaptor
I know this is a drag, but to avoid any possible repercusions from KS at Palladium perhaps it would be wise to change the names of a few things, if only to avoid legal action.

He is probably the most litigious man in roleplaying.

[Doug McCrae]

Originally posted by gauss
Has anyone done any Rifts conversions to the HERO system?

I love the background (though I admit it is cheesy), but damn if I don't pretty much hate the rules.
Amen, brother. I've heard so many people express that exact same view. Great world, crap system.

[Thag13]

The rifts books have neat artwork though.....

I tried playing a Rifts game, and just coulnd't sog thru the system.

[cndblank]

So has have the Rifts/Hero games been going?

[cndblank]

Note: While not immune to normal attacks, He is able to ignore most of them. Any suggestions appreciated.

Name: Rifts Vampire (Secondary)

Val Char Cost
25 STR 20
18 DEX 24
18 CON 16
10/25 BODY 0
13 INT 3
14 EGO 8
15 PRE 5
14 COM 2
10 PD 7
10 ED 8
4 SPD 12
9 REC 0
36 END 0
47 STUN 0

Characteristic Rolls: STR: 14-, DEX: 13-, CON: 13-, INT: 12-, EGO: 12-, PER: 12-
Run: 6/7", Swim: 2", Jump: 5", Lift: 800kg

Cost Powers END/Roll
168 Vampire Powers
(20) Regeneration (4 BODY/Turn); Regenerate: Standard, +0; Not against Wood, Sunlight, Running Water, Holy Items, Silver, and Fire (while Staked): -1
(5) Regeneration (1 BODY/hour); Regenerate: Standard, +0; May Not Regenerate if in Sun or Staked: -¼
(30) Damage Reduction (Physical, 75% Resistant); Not against Wood, Sunlight, Running Water, Holy Items, Silver, and Fire (while Staked): -1
(15) Damage Reduction (Energy, 50% Resistant); Not against Wood, Sunlight, Running Water, Holy Items, Silver, and Fire (while Staked): -1
(2) Damage Resistance (5 PD/5 ED); Not against Wood, Sunlight, Running Water, Holy Items, Silver, and Fire (while Staked): -1
(3) Immune to Aging
(10) Need Not Breathe
(15) Doesn't Bleed
(20) +15 BODY; Not against stake in heart, having head severed, or another Vampire.: -½
(7) Mind Link (thralls/his own Vampires); Minds: Related Group, +10; Number of Minds: 1, +0; Distance: Single Planet, +0; Dimension: Current, +0; Link with: Anyone, +0; Limited to Summoning Mostly: -½
(7) +15 PRE; Offense Only (Horror): -1
(10) 1d6 Bite: Killing Attack (HTH) (Total 2d6); Range: 0; No Knockback: -¼; Restrainable: -¼ 1
(10) Sense Blood (+0 to PER); Time Required: Instant, +2; Range: Ranged, +5
(5) Ultraviolet Vision
(2) Running (+1", 7", NC: 14"); Non-Combat Multiplier: ×2, +0; Non-Combat (MPH): 3 1
(7) Multiform: Bat/Mist/Wolf; Form: Second, ×2; Works only Out of Sunlight: -½
Bat: Sonar, - 4 Per, +4 DCV, +6KB, and Flight 15"
Wolf: Running 14" +1 Spd
Mist: Desoldification (may not pass through solid objects) only 3" run
37 Vampire Powers: Multipower (37-pt reserve)
More powerful Vampires will have 8, 10 or even 12d6 Mental Powers
u-3 6d6 Hypnotic Gaze: Mind Control; Communication: Telepathic, +¼; Requires eye contact unless his own Thrall/Vampire: -¼ 4
u-3 6d6 Mind Scan; Attack Roll Bonus: 3, 6; Number of Minds: 100,000; Only against his own Thrall/Vampire: -½ 4
u-4 2d6 Transform Thall/Vampire (Major, Limited Class); Range: 185 4
u-2 6d6 Telepathy; Only against his own Thrall/ or a Vampire: -½ 3
u-2 Mental Defense (38 pts); Add to Total; Not against his own Sire and Elders or Ego Attacks/'Mental Illusions: -½
u-3 MV Fog: Darkness (Normal Sight, 3" radius); Range: 150 3
u-4 MV: Summon Vermin (1 0-point creatures); Range: 0; Summon: Limited Group, +¼ 4

Cost Skills, Talents, Perks Roll
3 Stealth 13-
1 Area Knowledge 8-
2 Professional Skill 11-
6 +2 level w/Bite: 3 Maneuvers

150+ Disadvantages
10 Distinctive Features Red Eyes when using Powers/Hungry/Enraged; Concealability: Easily, 5; Reaction: Always noticed & major reaction, +5
10 Distinctive Features: Low Body Heat; Concealability: Easily, 5; Reaction: Always noticed & major reaction, +5
25 Hunted by Vampire Hunters (14-); Capabilities: As Powerful, 10; Non-combat Influence: Extensive, +5; Geographical Area: Unlimited, -0; Actions: Hunting, ×1; Punishment: Harsh, 0
5 Watched by Elders (8-); Capabilities: More Powerful, 15; Non-combat Influence: None, +0; Geographical Area: Limited, -5; Only Watching: ×½; Punishment: Harsh, 0
10 Phys. Lim. cannot enter a human home without an invitation (Infrequently, Greatly)
10 Phys. Lim. Cannot cross running water even by flight (must use bridge) (Infrequently, Greatly)
20 Phys. Lim. Frozen if Staked in Heart (Frequently, Fully)
10 Susceptibility to holy items (1d6 STUN/Turn); Condition: Uncommon, +5
35 Susceptibility: to sunlight (3d6 STUN/Phase); Condition: Very Common, +15
10 Vulnerability Mind Powers of Sires (2× STUN); Attack: Uncommon, +5
15 Overconfidence/Evil Predator (Very Common, Moderate)
10 Disdainful of Technology (Uncommon, Strong)
8 Enraged if very Hungry (14-, 14-); Circumstances: Uncommon, +5
10 Reputation Vampire (8-, Extreme)

OCV: 6; DCV: 6; ECV: 5; Mental Def.: 38; Phases: 3, 6, 9, 12
PD/rPD: 10/5; ED/rED: 10/5

Costs: Char.: 105 Disad.: 188
Powers: + 235 Base: + 150
Total: = 340 Total: = 338

Background: Wild Vampire: Total drop Presence by 5, Drop Int by 5, Ego by 3, Com by 3 and increase speed by 1, increase Running to 9", and increase Offensive PRE by 10. Also remove no knock back from Bite (now has claws)


Master Vampire: Increase Strength by 10, Con by 5, Dex by 5, PD by 5, ED by 5, Speed by 2, Multipower by 25 and Bite levels by 4

[lensman]

I skimmed so if this has been discussed I apologize.

Mental Def.
Power def.
Lack of Weakness
Flash def.

Rifts has a variety of SFX: Magic, Psyker, Technology, Bio-Wizardry to name a few.

But If a have a psyker who buys Power def. then it works vrs. Nao-tech or Magic spels or anything?

Need I limit the SFX to a specific type, for no Limit?

And I weas thinking of making all such def. d6 based, So every 3 points of def. generates a 1d6 roll. Making it more dynamic.

Wadda'yal think?

[SCUBA Hero]

And I weas thinking of making all such def. d6 based, So every 3 points of def. generates a 1d6 roll. Making it more dynamic.

Wadda'yal think?I like it; kind of a reverse Standard Effect.

[NuSoardGraphite]

I recently borrowed my friends RIFTS book (mine dissapeared) and have been doing conversions. A friend of mine had borrowed my copy of FREd, so I had to wait until he was done with that, but now I got it back. I'll start posting 5th edition updates to the RIPS "Proffessional Character Archetypes" very soon. Starting with the Cyberknight.

These packages will be priced for a 250pt Heroic Level campaign (125 base with up to 125pts in disads) so adjust accordingly if you intend to use them for a lower powered game.

[lensman]

SCUBAHero:
That was my model, reverse standard effect.

I will be posting my first conversion from RIFTS to Hero
Skelebots will be posting here soon.

[Lord Liaden]

For folks who haven't checked my HERO RPG conversions list (linked to in my signature, below), there's a lot more RIFTS/HERO stuff already out there - although we can always use more quality material. :) Allow me to direct you:


Detailed discussion of various RIFTS game mechanics, conversion guidelines and examples, and writeups for several character classes:
http://www.herogames.com/oldForum/Champions/000157.html
http://www.herogames.com/oldForum/Champions/000157-2.html

(This includes the material posted by Champsguy at the start of this thread.)

Weapon Damage Class conversions, and writeups for Coalition weaponry and armor, and ley-line magic:
http://www.herogames.com/oldForum/Champions/000579.html

Writeups for the Crazy, Cyber Knight, Glitterboy, Juicer, and Dragon Hatchling:
http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=96757

Other approaches to MegaDamage:
http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28271

Palladium cybernetic implants:
http://www.angelfire.com/scifi2/mathew/hero-cybernetic.html

Palladium psionic abilities:
http://www.angelfire.com/scifi2/mathew/hero-psionic.html

RIFTS character profession Package Deals (left-hand column, "Occupation Packages") and racial Package Deals (center column, "Racial Packages"):
http://www.angelfire.com/scifi2/mathew/champions.html#packages

(NOTE: The links on the webpage above are sometimes cranky and may take you to the author's homepage instead. Just go Back and try the link again.)

[lensman]

Here now, my version of the Skelebot

You may think the points mean something, really, they don't
Before commenting Be sure to read the notes I left on various powers.

I welcome comments

[lensman]

Errr... Here now my Skelebot conversion

[lensman]

fourthbtry

[lensman]

Here is an easy to read formatted version

[Trencher]

How does armour work in your bot write up Lensman?

[lensman]

Glad you asked.

Morningstar11070 has a chart for converting RIFTS damage to Hero,
I used that as a baseline to decide how tough I wanted Skelebots to be.

A used hit location to distribute the Armor, trying to keep to the source material of Rifts for a faithful conversion.

Base Armor def of 10 to all locarions which is 1x Hardened.

Ablative Armor next, Also 1x Hardened. Now Ablative Armor in Hero works like this.
If the Ablative Armor is exceeded in BODY by an attack, then it (where "it" is the amount of Armor with the Ablative Limitation) begins to have an activation roll to apply vrs. any next attack. Pg. 115 5th Rev.
Clearly Ablative def is on "top" of all def, which means any BODY from any attack is first applied to Ablative def.
So lets take a look at a location and go through an attack, say the Torso
Location 9-14, Base armor of 10 H, 17 H, and 5 H2, with 4 charges remaining

A beserk Asphalt Elemental attacks with a 4 d6 hka, doing 19 Body.
The GM chooses not to expend a Charge for Armor, So total def. is 27, 10 + 17
So the Skelebot takes no BODY.
However 19 Body does exceed the Ablative Armor of 17 def, so that Armor now has an activation roll of 15-.
On the next attack the Asphalt Elemental activates his Beserk strength and uses a spear, fashioned from an APC's axle, doing 5.5 d6 HKA

The attack does 23 Body. Rolling for Activation 15- the Skelebot rolls 16, which means the activation fails. Total def. now is 10 H, the GM decides to use the Armor Charge making it 15 Def.
Meaning that 23 Body - 15 Armor = Skelebot takes 8 Body. A serious blow to its functions, and bad luck for the Skelebot, it's days are numbered.

On the up side since the Ablative Armor failed, the next Armor activation is still 15-

I hope that answered your question

[Trencher]

Okay, I understand now.

Great skelbot write up! :yes:

[Trencher]

Morningstar11070 has a chart for converting RIFTS damage to Hero,
I used that as a baseline to decide how tough I wanted Skelebots to be.

Hmm.. where is that?

[lensman]

It is located in post 38, Lord Liaden, under weapon damage

[lensman]

Trencher:
Thanks for the praise.
I think I will build Juicers from Juicer Uprising next

[Trencher]

Trencher:
Thanks for the praise.
I think I will build Juicers from Juicer Uprising next
Maybe you could write up glitter boys first? :eg:

[lensman]

I am almost afraid of what a Glitterboy would look like in Hero.

But I get to it straight away.

[Trencher]

Exellent! You have an eye for detail and you are not going overboard. :yes:

[lensman]

Thanks. If anyone benefits then I have done my job.

Since I have fulfilled one request, anyone have a request for my next conversion?

[lensman]

Hi Rifter yuo must be one of the four views. Do you play of GM Rifts Hero?

[Trencher]

Thanks. If anyone benefits then I have done my job.
It is the players in my campain who will "benefit" :sneaky:

Since I have fulfilled one request, anyone have a request for my next conversion?
How about the glitterboy killer bot? Or one samas variant?

[lensman]

I am beginning to think I am serving the forces of evil. Namely you Trencher.

I hope your players are not D-bee's, cause if they are, they are in a world of hurt.

The art for the Glitter boy killer armor is fantastic, I was just thinking of converting it, so... it is next.

[Trencher]

I am beginning to think I am serving the forces of evil. Namely you Trencher. :sneaky:

I hope your players are not D-bee's, cause if they are, they are in a world of hurt. Actually allthough I would like too I do not run a campain based in the Rifts world. I just use part of it for my own sci-fi-campain, Prosek is an Emperor of an planet for example. The old style dead boys make good evil empire grunts. The new style dead boys are from the allied planet Stark equally evil.

The art for the Glitter boy killer armor is fantastic, I was just thinking of converting it, so... it is next.
:thumbup: I agree the art is real good.

[Rifter]

Hi Rifter yuo must be one of the four views. Do you play of GM Rifts Hero?

Yes I started a Rifts Hero session some weeks before. The group and I played Rifts with the Palladium system for about 8 years. Then we stopped playing Rifts for about 5 years.
Now I've discovered the Hero System for me and I want to play Rifts again with the Hero System. The Problem is, that I'm new to the Hero System and I nee a lot of time to write up a charakter. So I'm happy that there are other people on the board who play Rifts Hero too. And with the conversions already made by others I have no problems to start a scenario.
I don't have that much time, so the conversion hasn't even started. But if i have something I will post it on this board :-).

[The Main Man]

Well, here's what I have since come up with (I used to be Dr. Dementos) after researching other's ideas and concocting my own.

First, I like the Mega-Damage = +7 DCs idea, that is the best approach.

Second, based on that, you can then make equivalent DEF based on MDC
Just use the HERO's geometric scale for comparison
A character with, say, 100 MDC is equivalent to having enough defense to defend against an average 7DC attack = 7 DEF
This also means that any given MDC creature or structure should have 7 DEF in addition to their other defenses

So let's take that Glitterboy for example.
Glitterboy Main Body = 770 MDC
2^9.5 = 724
3 Active Points to 2 DEF for every 5 Active Points to 1 Damage Class (3/5)
9.5 x 3 = 28.5 Active Points / 1.5 = 19 DEF + 7 DEF = 26 DEF.
So maybe Rifts is not so powerful, just imbalanced.
We all have super-characters that can take this guy.

But what about his Boom Gun?
If memory serves me correctly, that is 3d6x10 MDC
This is my personal preference for damage conversion, but it has its kinks:
I take the type of die of damage that an attack does, divide by 2 to simulate the standard effect. This damage must be assumed to be BODY damage. That remaining number is the equivalent # of Damage Classes.
So back to the Boom Gun:
3d6, using these rules = 9 DCs
x10 has already been established as = +3 DCs
MDC = x100 = +7 DCs
9 DCs +3 DCs +7 DCs = 19 DCs = 19d6 Normal Damage or 6d6+1 Killing Damage.
There's your Boom Gun Damage.
And the rest is relatively easy to convert.

Sometime later I'll post about how I have decided to go about converting OCCs and RCCs.

[fbdaury]

Rght now my computer needs a new power supply but once I get that(hopefully soon), I will then type up what I have come up with so far for Rifts Hero and then load to the Internet... Just don't hold me to any timeline on all of this...:ugly:

[lensman]

Ok, had to reference some rules and add more info for the Glitterboy armor that was actually in the Glitter boy Killer armor description
Here now the result

[lensman]

Here now, a taste of the Plasma Warhead Mini missle of which the Glitter boy Killer armor has 10x

I built these as vehicles. I think it is very dynamic.

Comments welcome

So 10x of this missle cost 67 points on the Glitter boy Killer Armor
Also, the Dex of the missle is 14 so on any Ph it is fired, if th ePilot of th eGlitter boy Killer armor i higher it does not fire until Dex 14.. And at Spd 12, the missle can move on any seg it is fired.

Folowing is a breakdown of the Missle speed in Segments:
Distence moved by seg (1 second)
1,843 kph / 60 minutes / 60 seconds = .5119 km per seg

Seg 1 Mv : Seg 2 Mv : Seg 3 Mv : Seg 4 Mv
zero - .5119 km : .5120 kn - 1.023 km : 1.024 - 1.535 km : --> 1.6 km

[Trencher]

It's smart to write the missiles up as venchiles so they act more like missiles.

[lensman]

Doing a bit more reseach on Vehicles.

Hero 5th ed rev. pg. 471
At non combat Mv, OCV is Zero, DCV is Half

And a driving roll is required to exert a CV, which means I have to
add a Combat Piloting roll.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Well, since a Glitter boy has to stand still and insert its anchors into the ground to fire, wouldn't that make it DCV 0 to fire the Boom Gun?

How about attempting to fire it while maneuvering? 1/2 OCV or 0 OCV?

[lensman]

Very true, however unles the GBK is within .5119 km it takes more than a seg to reach the Glitter boy. But ther GB is 0 DCV for a Ph which at spd 4 is 3 segs minimim and it also means the GBK has to time it right and hopefully is closer .
Ok. So 11- chance to hit a 0 DCV target with a 0 Ocv attack.
It occurs to me as well that only the Dex based CV is halved for non combat Mv, which after including Dcv for size and Velocity =
Dex(5/2) + Size 4 + Velocity Dcv 15 = 21.
Right?

[The Main Man]

Yesterday I bought the Ultimate Edition of Rifts, and it is pretty impressive for its line.
I still haven't spotted an editorial error, and at least KS gives us insight to his game design methods.
I wish that the other books would be redone similarly.
Of course, I wish that I had the perfect conversion method to HERO System, but I'm getting there.

[The Main Man]

What about converting the Attributes to CHAR?
Some of them are obvious, like IQ, PS, PB, Spd, but the others are a little trickier I have found.

[The Main Man]

What about converting Attributes to CHAR?
Some are easy to convert, but others cover different things in their respective systems (PE acts like CON and END, SDC is like STUN and limited DEF), and numerically speaking, conversion isn't so easy with them either, or else Palladium comes out looking like pansies, unless that just is the case.

[lensman]

How about attempting to fire it while maneuvering? 1/2 OCV or 0 OCV?

Not sure to what you are referring.
If it is the Firing of the Boom Gun, Rifts clearly indicates the auto matic knockback and possible damage by Firing the Boom gun without precautions.

[NuSoardGraphite]

I was thinking about this the other day.

The characteristics are pretty easy to convert over.

In RIFTS, human norm goes between 0 and 20. Characteristics exceeding 20 are possible, but rare. Hero's normal characteristic range is pretty much the same, thus with all but a few characteristics, you can assume a Palladium 10 equals a Hero system 10.

The characteristics match up pretty easily:

P.S. = STR
P.P. = DEX
P.E. = CON
I.Q. = INT
M.E. = EGO
M.A. = PRE
P.B. = COM
Spd = Running (in general)

Palladium does its Strength kinda weird though. Characters with Strength scores between 3 and 16 multiply their P.S. score by 10 to determine how much they can carry. The maximum amount they can lift is double that. Thus a P.S. of 11 in Palladium system equals STR 10 in Hero (both can lift 100KG/220 lbs)
However, characters with a P.S. of 17 or higher suddenly get a massive jump in lifting ability...they get to multiply their P.S. by 20 for carrying and by 40 for lifting! Thus a P.S. of 17 in Palladium/RIFTS is equal to a STR 18 in Hero (close to 700lbs)
Here's a close approximation chart on equavalent STR scores:

P.S. to STR

10 = 9 (200lbs)
11 = 10 (220lbs)
12 = 10 (240lbs)
13 = 11 (260lbs)
14 = 11 (280lbs)
15 = 12 (300lbs)
16 = 12 (320lbs)
17 = 18 (680lbs)
18 = 18 (720lbs)
19 = 19 (760lbs)
20 = 19 (800lbs)
25 = 21 (1000lbs)
30 = 22 (1200lbs)

Note that a Hero system STR of 19 can lift around 792lbs (360kg) which is only 8lbs shy of Palladium's P.S. 20 at 800lbs.

Hit Point to Body conversions are a bit more difficult. The main reason is because characters in RIFTS gain more Hit Points as they increase their level of experience. HERO does not do this, though characters can certainly buy more Body as they gain EXP, this is a fairly rare occurrance. Thus is it probably best to purchase Body based on the type of character one is building.

Men of Arms: Typically Body of 12 to 15
Borgs: This should be covered as part of the Partial and Full conversion packages, but probably averages 15 Body for a Partial Conversion to 20+Body for a full conversion borg.
Men of Science: Typically Body between 8 and 12. The average human Body scores.
Practitioners of Magic: As men of science, they usually fall into the average range, though this tends to be on the low average (8 to 10) to save points for magic
Adventurers (City Rat, Wilderness Scout, Vagabond etc): Tend to fall in the average human range (8-12) though Wilderness Scouts get a bonus and tend to fall in the high average (11-12)
D-Bees: Variable depending on the nature of the being in question.
Special Men of Arms: (Cyberknight, Juicer, Crazie etc) These guys fight so often, they tend to average around Body 15 or higher for survivability purposes. The lowest common denominator, the Cyber Knight, would hover around Body 15. Crazies around Body 17 and Juicers even higher (though don't get too outrageous, they are still flesh and blood, unlike Borgs) All of these packages would include bonuses to initial Body score.

[memorax300]

Conversions Palladium material to other games is not allowed. Thread locked. Thread locked. Why is it not working oops wait this is not the Palladium Message boards. :)

[The Main Man]

I was thinking about this the other day.

The characteristics are pretty easy to convert over.

In RIFTS, human norm goes between 0 and 20. Characteristics exceeding 20 are possible, but rare. Hero's normal characteristic range is pretty much the same, thus with all but a few characteristics, you can assume a Palladium 10 equals a Hero system 10.

The characteristics match up pretty easily:

P.S. = STR
P.P. = DEX
P.E. = CON
I.Q. = INT
M.E. = EGO
M.A. = PRE
P.B. = COM
Spd = Running (in general)

Palladium does its Strength kinda weird though. Characters with Strength scores between 3 and 16 multiply their P.S. score by 10 to determine how much they can carry. The maximum amount they can lift is double that. Thus a P.S. of 11 in Palladium system equals STR 10 in Hero (both can lift 100KG/220 lbs)
However, characters with a P.S. of 17 or higher suddenly get a massive jump in lifting ability...they get to multiply their P.S. by 20 for carrying and by 40 for lifting! Thus a P.S. of 17 in Palladium/RIFTS is equal to a STR 18 in Hero (close to 700lbs)
Here's a close approximation chart on equavalent STR scores:

P.S. to STR

10 = 9 (200lbs)
11 = 10 (220lbs)
12 = 10 (240lbs)
13 = 11 (260lbs)
14 = 11 (280lbs)
15 = 12 (300lbs)
16 = 12 (320lbs)
17 = 18 (680lbs)
18 = 18 (720lbs)
19 = 19 (760lbs)
20 = 19 (800lbs)
25 = 21 (1000lbs)
30 = 22 (1200lbs)

Note that a Hero system STR of 19 can lift around 792lbs (360kg) which is only 8lbs shy of Palladium's P.S. 20 at 800lbs.

More to come....

Last night, I came up with some pretty decent conversion rules.

IQ = INT (Make A Direct Conversion, IOW, The Same Quantity)
ME = EGO (3 x (Save Versus Psionic Attack + 3))
MA = PRE (Direct Conversion, but this one's a little funky if you look at enough characters)
PS = STR (Compare by Equivalent Lifting Maximums)
PP = DEX (3 x (Strike/Parry/Dodge Bonus +3))
PE = CON (and END, but don't bother with END) (Direct Conversion, same problem as MA - PRE)
PB = COM (Direct Conversion)
Spd = Running (Compare Speeds)

SDC = STUN and Normal Defenses
This is slightly complicated but here goes.
First, compare SDC total to Geometric Chart
For STUN:
If Heroic, Divide corresponding Active Points by 5
If Superheroic, Divide corresponding Active Points by 2.5
For Normal Defenses (PD and ED; Don't Divide)
If Heroic, Divide corresponding Active Points by 10
If Superheroic, Divide corresponding Active Points by 5
HP = BODY (Geometric Chart)

[The Main Man]

Here Are Some Attributes To Characteristics Conversions I have thus far figured out
IQ = INT (Direct Conversion; IOW, it is directly numerically equivalent)
ME = EGO (3 x (Save vs. Psionics +3)) Note: Breaks Down At Lower Levels
PS = STR (Compare Lifting Maximums)
PP = DEX (3 x (Strike/Parry/Dodge Bonus +3)) Note: Breaks Down At Lower Levels
PB = COM (Direct Conversion)
Spd = Running (Compare MPH/KPH)

HP = BODY (Geometric Chart to Corresponding Active Points)

SDC = STUN, Normal PD, Normal ED
First check SDC total against the Geometric Chart
For STUN, divide by 2.5 if Superheroic, or by 5 if Heroic
For Normal PD and ED respectively, divide by 5 if Superheroic, or by 10 if Heroic

I'm still somewhat confused about how to properly convert MA and PE

[NuSoardGraphite]

Here Are Some Attributes To Characteristics Conversions I have thus far figured out

Okay, lets see it.


IQ = INT (Direct Conversion; IOW, it is directly numerically equivalent)

Yeah, pretty much how I'd deal with it as well.

ME = EGO (3 x (Save vs. Psionics +3)) Note: Breaks Down At Lower Levels

Actually, I'd transfer ME straight to EGO and translate bonuses to save vs Psionics as Mental Defense. (not counting the natural Psionics save bonus generated by M.E.)

PS = STR (Compare Lifting Maximums)

I'd do the same, as I listed above.

PP = DEX (3 x (Strike/Parry/Dodge Bonus +3)) Note: Breaks Down At Lower Levels

Again, like ME to EGO, I'd translate PP straight over to DEX and covert bonuses to Strike/Dodge to skill levels, not counting the natural bonuses derived from P.P.

PB = COM (Direct Conversion)

Agreed. Its an easy conversion.

Spd = Running (Compare MPH/KPH)

Another easy one. We should probably work on a SPD to Movement conversion chart though.

HP = BODY (Geometric Chart to Corresponding Active Points)

This is pretty much how I'd handle it. Though I'm not sure what you mean by Geometric Chart...






I'm still somewhat confused about how to properly convert MA and PE

I would think M.A. and P.E. would convert pretty straight.

I'd leave derived characteristics out of the equation and let those be adjusted as necessary. The only exception being Spd, which would be based on the characters level of Hand to Hand skill:

HtH/SPD
None/2
Basic/3
Expert/3
Martial Arts/4
Assasin/4

Where a character gets more attacks per round, add one more point of speed. Example Cyberknights and Crazies both get +1 SPD and Juicers get +2 SPD.

[The Main Man]

I guess that I accidentally used my terms from my actual document on conversion.
What I mean is the Geometric Scale.
The Geometric Scale is the corresponding scale of multiplication in accordance to Active Points.
Remember when FReD explains that every increment of 5 Active Points is effectively 2x the last increment?
Basically, when you take, say, 60 Active Points, that is equal to the geometric value of (2^12) = 4096
It's that kind of logic that make Mega-Damage easy to convert.
+35 Active Points --> 2^7 = 128

[The Main Man]

I found a new way to convert damage as well, using the geometric scale.
It's similar to the +35 = x100 formula.

Basically, take the standard effect of the attack, and compare it to the scale.

A full burst from a SAMAS Rail Gun does 1d4x10 MD IIRC, so the standard effect is 2000 SDC damage, which is closest to 2^11 = 55 Active Points.
That means a full round burst from a SAMAS Rail Gun is an RKA 3 1/2 d6

[NuSoardGraphite]

Thats kinda scary man, because thats exactly how much damage I would have the SAMAS railgun do. (with some AP and Autofire of course)

Very nice.

[The Main Man]

A Glitterboy has 700 MDC on main body
700 MDC = 70000 SDC = 2^26 = 67,108,864
3 Active Points of Armor is able to defend against 5 Active Points of Damage
3/5 Ratio

This is the long, drawn out equation: 26 x 5 = 130 x .6 = 78 Active Points/3 = 26, back where we started.
So Glitterboy armor, without modifiers (Hardened, Focus, etc) is 26 rPD/ 26 rED
This is of course assuming that you are not building it as a vehicle, which it should not be.

[AlHazred]

This is of course assuming that you are not building it as a vehicle, which it should not be.I quite agree. It's similar to the Iron Man reasoning, but in the case of GBs I've seen played, it's even more extreme. One guy wanted to justify sleeping, eating, doing everything in his armor and never taking it off. Granted, in the latest iteration of the rules at least, there's some reason given for the GM to say "No" but I've seen it allowed in many cases...

[The Main Man]

For me, I'm probably going to make Rifts HERO a Very Powerful Heroic campaign that verges on the Superheroic, so IOW, I decide how Glitterboys and other toys are built.

But, for Robot Vehicles, and Vehicles in General, I would do as I stated in an earlier post for determining BODY and DEF.

For example, since I do not have a Rifts book on hand at the moment, I shall use the Glitterboy on the assumption of it being built as a vehicle.

700 MDC = (70,000 SDC and HP) /2 = 35,000 SDC or HP
Since we have only halved the total, that's only -5 Active Points (if you must know, it is exactly 33,554,432, but let's round)
And because that is only -5 Active Points, that means that a Glitterboy built as a Vehicle would have only 13 DEF, but would have 62 fraggin' BODY! And I must emphasize that we haven't even added the rest of the goodies!

[The Main Man]

It looks like Damage and MDC are pretty much figured out (but reverse convert Dr. Destroyer to Rifts that way and see the results:eek: )

I'm figuring that any form of movement can easily be converted.

Speed = x20 = x Yards in a Minute x 3 = x Feet x 60 = x" in an hour / 5280 = xMPH
MPH x804.5 = x" / 60 = per minute / 5 = per Turn / SPD (I like to just use 2), and then factor out Non-Combat multiples as necessary

So a Spd 20 Character is
20 x 20 = 440 x 3 = 1320 x 60 = 79,200 / 5,280 = 15 mph exactly
15mph x 804.5 = 12,068 (I rounded) / 60 = 201 / 5 = 40 / 2 = 20 = 20", which probably means 10" of movement.

The more that I look into this, the more that Rifts and Palladium actually look puny compared to some of the things that I've seen in HERO System.

[tgrandjean]

...And because that is only -5 Active Points, that means that a Glitterboy built as a Vehicle would have only 13 DEF, but would have 62 fraggin' BODY! And I must emphasize that we haven't even added the rest of the goodies!

... Just pointing out that this makes it an excellent candidate for Damage Reduction...

[NuSoardGraphite]

... Just pointing out that this makes it an excellent candidate for Damage Reduction...

Long, long ago I suggested using Damage Reduction to represent a Glitterboy (and other uber-tough mecha) but a lot of people didn't like the idea.

I love it though and if I wrote up a Glitterboy tomorrow, I would include Damage Reduction in the write-up.

[The Main Man]

For Glitterboys, it does say that they take only half damage from lasers.
I am assuming that they mean more than just weapons with the word 'laser' in them, so I would give them EDR for light based weapons, which usually means lasers anyway, at least.

But for otherwise DR, I would reverse calculate the BODY by the DR rate until I got a viable number.

Taking that 62 BODY into mind, if I gave it 50% DR, that would be (62 / 1.5) = 41, which is still a bit much, so lets go to 75% DR --> 35 BODY, which is a bit better if I went down that route.

[BlackSword]

We've been playing Rifts for the last few months using Hero rules. Its going quite well and the GM did a good job moving the classes into Hero terms. For weapons he just uped the damage so that Megascale is in the range of 6d+ KA attacks. Armor was upped equivantly so that a tank has enough armor that it is not in danger from anything less than a dozen killing dice.

[The Main Man]

New Speed Conversions (i.e. Simplified)

Speed x 0.918 = Active Points of Movement (assuming a SPD of 2)
Ex. Spd 20 x 0.918 = 18.36 = 9" of Movement

MPH x 0.67 = Movement x"
Ex. 20 MPH x 0.67 = 13.4" Movement (assuming a SPD of 2)

[ShinDangaioh]

Are you going to do the 100 megaton nuclear bomb that only has a 50' explosion radius?

[UltraRob]

We've been playing Rifts for the last few months using Hero rules. Its going quite well and the GM did a good job moving the classes into Hero terms. For weapons he just uped the damage so that Megascale is in the range of 6d+ KA attacks. Armor was upped equivantly so that a tank has enough armor that it is not in danger from anything less than a dozen killing dice.

Blacksword, would it be possible to see some numerical examples? I mean, a weapon or two, or maybe the actual numbers on that tank?

Rob

[The Main Man]

Are you going to do the 100 megaton nuclear bomb that only has a 50' explosion radius?
Hell no. It's an Explosion!

[NuSoardGraphite]

I do Mega explosions like that as AE-Radius and Explosion. That way you have a large ground zero, with dimishing damage as you get further away from the center.

[ShinDangaioh]

It was a joke at RIFTS expense ;)

Explosions in RIFTS only have a 50' radius, no matter what is doing the explosion: A stack of dynamite, a 100 megaton nuke, an anti-matter bomb.

[Captain Obvious]

It was a joke at RIFTS expense ;)

Explosions in RIFTS only have a 50' radius, no matter what is doing the explosion: A stack of dynamite, a 100 megaton nuke, an anti-matter bomb.

The sun going supernova..? :rolleyes:

[Warp9]

The sun going supernova..? :rolleyes:

50' radius on a supernova?

In the RIFTS game system: probably "yes."

[BlackSword]

Blacksword, would it be possible to see some numerical examples? I mean, a weapon or two, or maybe the actual numbers on that tank?

Rob
I forgot to ask the GM on our last game, will try to get some info for you.

[The Main Man]

The sun going supernova..? :rolleyes:
*snorting laugh*

[The Main Man]

I think Magic and Psionics should be addressed.

First off, Potential Psychic Energy would probably be an END Reserve.

Inner Strength Points has an unwritten appearance of just being half as potent as PPE, so just take a Psychic's ISP total and halve it to PPE.

I would prefer to compare a PPE total to the Geometric Scale, and then using those corresponding Active Points as a budget between the END and the REC.

Ex. An average beginning Ley Line Walker gets 3d6 x10 +20 +PE (average 9) = 119 --> 2^7 = 128 --> 35 Active Points in an END Reserve.
Some ways to split it up are 300 END and 5 REC, or 50 END, 30 REC, but there are many other ways, as long as it is 35 Active Points, assuming strict conversion.

This brings me to another point: I do not think that there should be any actual Package deals to represent every single Magic OCC or Psychic PCC.
The numerous books make it pretty obvious that much of it is actually up to your imagination.
For example, a Master Psychic is just a character with numerous, powerful Psionic powers, while a Minor one is someone who has a few tricks up their sleeve.
The same goes for Magic OCCs, except maybe a base class that gives the bare necessities of Magic Users, but then all else is variation.

[UltraRob]

Yes, I think pretty much the same. RIFTS more or less amounts to an "anything goes" setting, so why bother to actually duplicate the major packages and OCCs unless you want to use them as NPCs? I can see doing writeups for various characters like Juicers and Cyberknights that are the staples of the setting, and of course you need to whip up versions of equipment and powered armour. But, OCCs and RCCs are probably better served by just making "examples" rather than packages and letting the PCs go nuts with it. After all, if you wanted those packages, you'd just be playing RIFTS itself, right? HERO is there to open things up, not restrict them.

Rob

[tgrandjean]

Just pointing out the no brainer method of converting ISP and PPE: convert your highest draw power into Hero and multiply that by the number of times that you can toss it off in Rifts.
Also, Ley lines act as an Aid to all Magic and Psionic base powers: 1d6 for weak lines up to ~4-6d6 for a Dimensional Rift w/ a coresponding environmental penalty to Mystic and Psionic senses.

[The Main Man]

One of my longstanding conundrums has been Cybernetics and Bionics (C&B).
Right now, I have decided to treat C&B as the thin line between Equipment and Powers, so they cost half in Money, half in Character Points.
But with my "anything goes" approach, what about new C&B installations?
I think that this would take some extra thought on a GM's part to create Cyber-Docs (if there are any in town) with specific ranges of budget and ability, and that dictates what they can make, giving them not only a mechanic-like feel, but also engineer extraordinaire; Techno-Wizards also would fall into this same mold.

[UltraRob]

I actually have to say that I think it's better, and more HERO, to have the Bionics&Cybernetics paid for with full points, not half. during character creation. In the end, they're just a gimmick to give you Superpowers anyways, and get the price break as foci, so why not just let them be paid for normally? After character creation, you have the usual HERO conundrum of whether to make them pay points or money for development. I'd be inclined to let the ones bought after character creation be counted as equipment and not bother with points for them unless there was something special about them. (ie A new bionic hand costs no points, just money, a bionic technowizard hand with a shield spell might costs points and money if I was running it.)

As for the technowizard stuff, since they're investing their energy into building things I think it's more reasonable to require the cost in points (for character spirit) and money (for parts). Then again, it might depend on the use of the item and how much you want Technowizards to be able to pump out items of power as well.

Rob

[tgrandjean]

Actually concerning Cybernetics and Bionics, they won't actually be recieving much of a point break: neither really qualify as a focus; they cannot be removed or lost easily. They are however, restrainable.

Re: Cyberdocs, Technowizards, and Mechanics etc: I'm inclined to let them buy their created gear via both points (built with Independent) and money. Part of the booty (so to speak) that they can aquire as they adventure includes points vested into the loot. Technology for the Mechanics, Docs, etc, and Crystals, Rare Metals, and Spell Type Foci items for the Magic using chaps.

[The Main Man]

Good call on the Independent (-2) Limitation on Cybernetics and Bionics.
I think that I will try that out.

[The Main Man]

Oops, I made a mistake, you meant gadgets and the like.
Anyway, I made another decision: eliminate Package Deals, and just have the players look at the OCCs so they get a good idea of how to fit into the setting.

[shadow_walker]

*snorting laugh*

Ditto

[The Main Man]

So by extension, what my idea (which I imagine by some posts has already been used) is meant to mean, is that a character could be a Crazy, but only have the physical enhancements, or only the sensory enhancements, or only the mental powers, etc. Not every Full Bionic Conversion is going to be the same, Magic is taught differently but to the same effect as we are all taught normal knowledge, and so on and so forth.

[The Main Man]

I got the Game Master's Guide, which is quite useful for converting weapons, armor, vehicles, and is generally good as a reference to other books.

[The Main Man]

For the longest time, there has been an inherent (+1/4) chink in the conversion armor.

In Rifts, Mega-Damage is frequently referred to as giving a guy in a suit and pistol the capability to do the damage that tanks today do, or more, but with the current scale that I use this just isn't possible.

Take for instance the Glitter Boy. Main Body 770 MDC, Boom Gun does 3d6x10 MDC (Standard Effect: 90 MDC)

Under my current conversion method, just figure the MDC as SDC (77,000 SDC; 9000 SDC), and find it's nearest corresponding place on the Active Point Geometric Scale (80 Active Points; 65 Active Points).

If you check the HERO System Vehicle Sourcebook and compare these to the Tanks in there, this Glitter Boy doesn't stand much of a chance, on average, against even the weakest tank.

So, I got to thinking about it, and using simple semantics, let's look at the word Mega, which literally indicates a base quantity x 10^6, or one million.

For conversion purposes, let's pretend that MDC means SDC x 10^6; 1 MDC = 1,000,000 SDC.

It's easier to use logarithmic calculation at this higher end of the scale, but I'll just show the answers.

Let's go back to the Glitter Boy (770 MDC -> 770,000,000 SDC -> 30 DEF and BODY; 90 MDC -> 90,000,000 SDC -> 26 DCs) v Those tanks.

Now if we compare this new result, this Glitter Boy would utterly decimate even the strongest Tank.

Here's a pretty accurate chart of MDC --> DCs/DEF:

MDC DCs/DEF
1 --> 20
2 --> 21
3-5 --> 22
6-11 --> 23
12-23 --> 24
24-47 --> 25
48-94 --> 26
95-189 --> 27
190-378 --> 28
379-756 --> 29
757-1512 --> 30
+1-x2 --> +1

Now this changes a lot, as you can see.
Things like Active Points, Power Levels, Character Costs, etc., and that is my new problem.

[AlHazred]

It's also probably closer to what Mr. Siembieda intended. Personally, I don't like the idea of a GB decimating modern tanks. Were I to do it in Hero, I'd probably tweak the numbers to make a GB roughly equal tanks, or slightly overpower them but with less in the way of backup systems and such. Besides the GB is more mobile, so it probably doesn't need to overpower the tank with firepower in order to stand a chance against it.

[The Main Man]

Perhaps a compromise?
MDC = x10,000
770 MDC = 23 DEF/ 23 BODY
90 MDC = 20 Damage Classes
No slouch either; Tanks stand a better chance, but will still probably lose, and MDC still comes off very powerful.

[AlHazred]

I still have yet to see a GB writeup, too! *hint, hint*

:D

[UltraRob]

I'm about to start a RIFTS campaign using the MEGS system (there are reasons I couldn't use HERO, otherwise I would have) and I tried doing the conversion formula thing but found it just didn't work well. It tended to produce numbers clustered in an oddly small range that just felt weird. So, in the end, I sat down and said "well, assuming "megadamage" just means "really tough" I'm not going to bother to even try to convert it over. Instead I took the laser pistol from the basic book and said "okay, a WILKS pistol should be the equivalent of this because it's the most basic energy weapon from the game" and then said "okay, the most massive weapon in the game is a Boom Gun, which should be able to take out a modern tank in one good hit, so how much would that be?" and figured it out. That became my range for weapon and armour damage, and I went from there. Everything else slid neatly into place.

I guess my point is, if you enjoy conversion formulas, go nuts, but in the end I think it's better to make a conversion scale and place things accordingly as a way of keeping balance.

Rob

[Rifter]

I guess my point is, if you enjoy conversion formulas, go nuts, but in the end I think it's better to make a conversion scale and place things accordingly as a way of keeping balance.
Rob

Do you have a conversion scale for Rifts and can you show it?
I try to convert Rifts to Hero System to, but as I'm a starter in the Hero System, I realy appreciate any conversion hints :) .

[Almafeta]

I still have yet to see a GB writeup, too! *hint, hint*

:D

Here's the one I used a year or so ago:

Glitter-Boy (89 points)
Package Skills (27 points). Combat Driving (Base+1, 5 points), Demolitions (Base+2, 7 points); EF: Weapons (1 point), Electronics (Base+1, 5 points); Navigation (Base, 2 points), Radio (Base+1, 3 points), TF: Glitter Boy Environmental Armor (1 point), WF: Energy Pistol, Energy Rifle, Rail Guns (3 point).
Nickname of Glitter Boy (Frequently, Minor, Not All Cultures, -5 points)
Glitter Boy Environmental Armor (62 points). (STR 35; BODY 50 (35 points); -2 DCV (5 points); -5" KB; DEF 24 (66 points); DEX 8 (-6); NCM Movement Multiplier *4 (