Rifts HERO?

[gauss]

Has anyone done any Rifts conversions to the HERO system?

I love the background (though I admit it is cheesy), but damn if I don't pretty much hate the rules. Most of all, I hate the fact that it takes me about the same amount of time to create a Palladium character as it does a HERO character, but all of the Palladium characters of a particular class seem to be exactly the same.

Anyway, thanks to anyone who can point me in the right direction.

[cubist]

This is actually the project that I just started working on the other day. So far I'm working on conversions of the Classes. The way that I'm doing it is as templates that the character can buy with skills (and in the cases of some, powers) in them plus common disadvantages for that class. So far I'm basing this on 100 pt. base +100 pts. disadvantages with package disavantages NOT counting towards their total. This means that Juivcers are much more powerful than, say, cyber docs, but also have much greater problems. Like You, like the setting(well, okay, love the concept of it), but hate the system and the later directions taken with the game. This way, I get to change both the things that I hated about the original :)

[gauss]

Sweet!

Will you post it to the net when you are ready? I would really like to see it.

[Grymlynn]

Darnit, there was a couple guys on the previous boards whose names escape me, who did really good work building Juicers and Crazies on the old boards. I saved those write-ups, lemme see if I can find them...

[gauss]

Excellent! Thanks!

[Champsguy]

There was a big discussion of this on the old boards. I actually snipped some of them and saved them in a word file. I might still have it.

Here we go. Warning: there's a lot of stuff from me in this thread, so it might not be very interesting. :D Some of it might not make sense, since I didn't snip the entire conversation, just the parts I wanted for my own writeups.

Enjoy.

Champsguy:
Yech. RIFTS bad.
The starting idea wasn't so awful, but the execution was. There's lots of hackneyed writing, overused ideas, and bad plotlines. The history doesn't really make sense, either. I've got a hundred other complaints.

But that's just me.
If you really want to use RIFTS, there is a way to use mega-damage without things becoming too unbalancing.
In RIFTS, mega-damage is 100x more powerful than normal weapons. Personally, several individuals I know have scaled that back to only 10x more powerful (making sdc weapons of some use). Whichever way you use it (I recommend x10), it's fairly easy to simulate in HERO. +1DC is generally considered to be twice as powerful. Thus, 4DC is twice as powerful as 3DC. To get x10, you only need to add 3 dice. To get x100, you add 7 dice.
A normal assault rifle is a 1 1/2 D6 RKA (5DC, and probably about 5D6 SDC in Palladium). So that means that a 5D6 MD rifle would need to add either 3 or 7 DC to become mega-damage. If you add 3, then your 1 1/2 D6 RKA becomes a 2 1/2 D6 RKA (8DC). This is nice, because it puts you in the same league as VIPER blaster rifles, as well as Star-Hero weapons. That means you could find equivalent RIFTS-level equipment in Champions supplements. If you add 7DC to get MD, then your 1 1/2 D6 RKA becomes a 4D6 RKA (12DC). That's really nasty, but not too far gone to keep stuff in control. You'll just really be emphasizing the "instant death" part of RIFTS.
So here's a few weapons and how they would convert in a RIFTS/HERO crossover. Not that there's a little bit of rounding to get "the feel" right (like for the Boom Gun).
Weapon RIFTS damage at x10 at x100
Laser
Pistol 2D6MD 2D6+1RKA 3.5D6RKA
Laser
Rifle 4D6MD 2.5D6RKA 4D6RKA
SAMAS
Railgun 1D6x10MD 3D6 RKA 4d6+1RKA
Boom Gun 3D6x10MD 4D6 RKA 5D6+1RKA
x10 keeps weapons like the Laser Pistol in line with generic "blaster" pistols (about 6 or 7 D6 EBs). Boom Guns are still super-hero class damage.
This will mean that your armor will be a bit lower than some people may have expected (no 40/40 Armor for a Glitter Boy). Deadboy armor will be equivalent to VIPER armor (imagine that), at around 5/5 or 8/8 for the heavier stuff. SAMAS suits may have 12/12, while a Glitter Boy will be nigh-invulnerable at an 18/18. I suspect they all might have additional PD or ED (nonresistant), probably up to 1/2 the level of the Armor, to keep people from getting stunned to death. That extra PD and ED might be all that seperates MD armor from "normal" SDC armor. Thus, a Deadboy suit would have 8/8 Armor, +4PD/+4ED nonresistant. Given an average soldier's PD of 3, that means 15 total defense. This is superior to SDC plate armor (8 Def), which wouldn't have the extra PD and ED. SDC armors might also have a -1/4 limitation that halves their Def vs. "Mega-Damage" blasts.
So with this system, a laser pistol has a slight chance to do Body, and will drop a handful of Stun through on every shot vs. a Deadboy-equipped soldier. Meanwhile a Boomgun (4D6 RKA) will pop about 6 or 7 Body on the guy and knock him waaaaayyyy out in one shot. As it should be.
NuSoard:

I have designed many of the suits of armor, powered armor and weapons from RIFTS into Hero (for my Star Hero game) and your numbers are pretty close to what I came up with.
Deadboy armor was Def 5 (light) and Def 8 (heavy)
Samas was Def 12 (hard) and the Glitterboy was Def 20 (hard) with some Damage reduction.
The Samas Railgun was 3D6+1K with Autofire-5
The Glitterboy "Boomgun" was 5D6+1K Apx2
Its not too difficult to translate the stuff over. Just ignore the Mega Damage aspect and translate it as it should be for scale... (keep in mind that powered armor should be minimum Def-10. PA meant for heavy combat will oftentimes be hardened, and possibly have some damage reduction to represent durability)
I don't think the handweapons should do astronomical amounts of damage...5-12DC's is more than enough for infantry weaponry...

Nusoard:
Use elemental controls to buy the characteristic bonuses for Juicers and crazies and that cuts their cost down a lot, and allows them to fit into even a 150pt scale game (however a standard RIFTS game should probably run at about 200 points. Very few characters in RIFTS are "normal" and those that are usually have more skills than GOD)
Lets see:
Juicer Package Elemental Control:
10pt EC:
+10STR/+5PD/+5ED (20pts). Cost:10pts
+5Con/+5Bod (20pts) Cost:10pts
+7Dex (21pts) Cost:11pts
+2SPD (20pts) Cost:10pts
+5REC/+20End (20pts) Cost:10pts
+20Stun (20pts) Cost:10pts.
+5"(x4)running/+5"superleap (20pts) Cost:10pts
Total cost: 81pts (for 141pts worth of characteristics)
This gives the average man who goes through Juicer Conversion the following Base Characterisics base/max)
STR:20/30
DEX:17/27
CON:15/25
BOD:15/25
INT:10/20
EGO:10/20
PRE:10/20
COM:10/20
PD:9/15
ED:8/14
SPD:4.7/6.7
REC:12/18
END:50/80
STN:52/82
Running:11"(x4)/17"(x4)
Leaping:9"(x2)
Okay. This is just about right for a starting Juicer. Only costs 81pts (sheesh, only) and in a 150pt game, still leaves 69pts for skills and martial arts. Juicers are about 90% high characteristics anyway, so 69pts should be about right to flesh the juicer out the rest of the way (30pts worth of martial maneuvers and 39pts worth of skills and skill levels..)
Note, in the RIFTS main book it states that a Juicer can lift 4 times more than a nomral person of equivalent strength and endurance. This means an "Average" Juicer has a STR score of 20 compared to the average man's STR of 10 (20 can lift exactly 4 times more than STR 10), so the STR conversion is perfect.
It also states that a Juicer can last 10 times longer than the average man before feeling the effects of exhaustion. With a End of 50 and REC of 12, this is also nearly dead-on. (compared to Joe Averages End 20 and Rec 4)
It also states that Juicers can operate for 5 days straight without needing to sleep and only needs about 3 hours of sleep a night to operate normally (this can be simulated with the No need to sleep Life support power).
The average Juicer can run at 72kpg/45mph!!! in rifts. The Hero conversion can run 105kph/66mph. A trifle fast. A Juicer with Max Spd in RIFTS can run 118kph/73mph. A maxed out Juicer in Hero can run 244kph! If you drop the X4ncbt to X2, that makes an average Juicer run at 53kph/33mph and a maxed out run at 122kph/76mph. About right.
Juicers can leap about 30 feet horizontally. (9.1 meters). The 9" of leaping in Hero gives them the ability to leap nearly 60 feet! (talk about superleap!)
Juicers in RIFTS gain a bonus of +2D4 to PP (the Palladium equivalent to DEX) and +2 actions. The average bonus to +2D4 is +5. in addition to that Juicers gain +4 to roll with the punch and breakfall and +4 to initiative. To incorperate all that I gave Hero Juicers a +7 Dex bonus. The +2 actions I just translated straight over to +2 SPD bonus (the combat round in RIFTS is 15 seconds in length. The combat turn in Hero is 12 seconds in length. The conversion is pretty straight forward)
Rifts Juicers gain a +4 bonus to save vs Psionics and a +6 to save vs mind control specificaly. You might want to give Hero Juicers additional mental defense or Ego based on this. (but only a few points extra)
Rifts Juicers heal 4 times faster than normal. Hero Juicers heal 3 times faster than normal (Rec:12 vs Rec:4) which is close enough. Also it states that Juicers feel almost no pain (the bio-comp does this for them) and that Juicers will not be impaired by pain untill they are quite low on Hit points. This accounts for the ungodly amount of Stun that a Hero Juicer can aquire. Additionaly this also accounts for the higher CON (difficult to stun) and increased Defenses (ignore stun damage for the most part). An attack has to do a minimum of 25pts of stun damage to "Stun" a Hero Juicer. A martial artist with normal strength is hard-pressed to do that much damage, even with an offensive strike! GM's who want juicers to be really tough to take down should consider adding Damage reduction to the Elemental control (25% should be sufficient).
Note: Some GM's may wish to make the Juicer drug injectors OIF or IIF (I suggest IIF as they can be easily hid under clothing). If the drug harness is removed, the bio-comp must then rely on the body's natural chemicals to enhance the character. The bonuses should drop to half of what they are until the drug harness can be reattatched. With this method add a OIF or IIF limitation to the entire EC. This will reduce the cost of the EC and the slots appropriately. (total cost with OIF is 65. With IIF is 73)
The disadvantages of the Juicer are as follows:
Distinctive Feature: Juicer (identifiable drug harness)Easily concealable (under clothing) Causes major reaction/prejudice (10pts): The Juicer has the drug harnes throughout his body. Anyone with this system is immediately recognized as a juicer and will be seen as an immediate threat. Most normal people want nothing to do with them.
Watched: By employer (variable): Most Juicers get their conversion from powerful/rich warlords, who then require a term of service from the juicer. The employers would be considered more powerful with NCI because they usually surround themselves with bodyguards and in RIFTS, money talks. The watched is likely to be at least the 11- level because juicers are just too powerful to allow them to run around unchecked...
Psychological limitation: Drug addict: Common/total (20pts) if deprived of the drug harness or if the Juicer runs out of drugs they will go to extraordinarly lengths to get the drugs back. It is a complete and utter drug addiction. Without the drugs, the Juicer has horrible withdrawls, even worse than the ones suffered by extreme Crack or Heroine addicts.
Reputation: Juicer/14-/Extreme: (20pts) Almost everyone in the Americas knows what a juicer is. Stories about them are legendary (some are of Juicer heroism, but most are about their recklessness and lack of respect for life) and anyone recognizing the character as a Juicer will likely have all sorts of preconcieved misconceptions about them because of the tall tales...
Other psychological disadvantages include:
Reckless (common/strong)
Casual Killer (uncommon/strong)
Deathwish (common/moderate): This means that the juicer seemingly has no fear and will preform feats of impossibly stupid daring do, simply because he/she knows that they are already considered the walking dead.
Overconfidence (common/strong) Juicers KNOW they are the best at combat. No one can defeat them. (or so they think)

Thats my particular conversion of the RIFTS Juicer into Hero. Stay tuned for my Conversion of the Crazy.
As I promised earlier. The Crazy.
The Mind Over Matter project (M.O.M.) is an interesting way of tapping into hidden strength reserves in humans. Both more and less reliable than Juicer Conversion. (Crazies last a lot longer....physically, but go bonkers in about the same time as it takes for a Juicer to "burn-out")
Crazy EC: 10pts
STR+5/+3Con/+3Bod/+3pd/+3ed Active:23 Cost:13
Dex+5/Spd+1 Active:25 Cost:15
Rec+5/End+10/Stn+10 Active: 25 Cost:15
Enhanced Senses:
TrackingScent/+2perception/+2sight perception/+4Rmod-sight Active:26 Cost:16
Bio-Regeneration:
2D6Heal-aid Continuous(+1)Self only(-1/2)Concentrate-0DCV(-1)Extra-time5min(-2) Active:20 Cost:2
Psychic Power:
1 power at 20 Active points. Cost:10
Total EC Cost:71pts.
An Average Crazy should look like this (Average/Max)
STR:15/25
DEX:15/25
CON:13/23
BOD:13/23
INT:10/20
EGO:10/20
PRE:10/20
COM:10/20
PD:6/11
ED:6/11
SPD:3.5/5.5
REC:11/15
END:36/66
STUN:37/67
If you look at the RIFTS Crazy compared to the RIFTS Juicer, you can see that they have almost exactly half the bonuses that Juicers have. Thus, I gave them effectively half the same bonuses. However, Crazies have their senses greatly enhanced and the benefit of psychic powers. I intentionaly left the power undefined, as this will change depending on each individual Crazy. (The EC accounts for up to a 20 AP power with no limitations. Adjust the cost accordingly). Note that even though Crazies are considered Psychics, they were not given an enhanced Ego. That is because RIFTS crazies weren't given an enhanced Mental Endurance (the Palladium equivalent to Ego).
The Crazies bio-regeneration I wrote up as Heal-aid: Self only and not regeneration because first, it does not act automatically...and second, Aid mimicks the way Palladium does it better. Note that in RIFTS, Crazies can regen 2D6HP and 3D6SDC in 2D4Minutes. The average on 2D4 is 5, thus I just chose Extra-time:5minutes. Also, it states that if the Crazy remains in the Regenerative trance for 6 hours, all SDC and an Additional 4D6 Hp will be regenerated...thus I opted to build the Aid as Continuous. Every 5 minutes in the trance, the Crazy will regenerate 2D6 (up to 4 Body and 12 Stun) which will, on average, take the Crazy about an Hour to regenerate from 0body and Stun to full. This is one advantage the Crazy has over the Juicer, in the fact that the Juicer must heal normally (though, the Juicer heals 3-4 times faster than mundanes...its still MUCH slower than the Crazy)
Okay, now for the fun part.
The most important part that seperates the Crazy from everyone else....
Those Wacky Psych lims!
RIFTS system works for this pretty well because the Psych lims are both random and gained as levels of experience are gained. Hero, on the other hand, does not have Levels of experience OR random tables on which to roll Psych lims. Enterprising GM's can design a table..or just use the one in the RIFTS book and apply accordingly (my suggestion to start)
However, that still doesn't solve the problem of giving the crazy more Psych lims as he/she gains experience. What I suggest is that the GM give the character Psych lims for every 10pts of EXP the character accumulates. The GM should design the Psych lim and let the player know what is going on with the character now...this way, the player never knows what his characters psyche is going to come up with next. This does not mean that the GM should take control of the character by any means...this merely gives the GM the ability to afflict the Crazy with colorful psychosis to see how the player is going to deal with them.
Beginning Crazies should have a minimum of 30pts worth of Psychological limitations. The wierder, the better. (these the player can design).
My Guidelines:
Early on, the Crazy should just have a simple psychosis or two. An unreasonable fear (fear of flies?) or perhaps an annoying quirks (bites his nails...loudly) but as time goes on (i.e. gains exp) the psychosis should get more pronounce (old ones get stronger) and more varied (completely new ones) untill such a time that the characters mind Fragments (i.e. creates multiple personalities to handle all the Psychosis)
Minor Psychological Quirks:
These would be anything of a moderate level. Fear of heights, Mild paranoia and lecherousness are all good exmples. The Crazies beginning Psychosis should all start at this level, but get stronger as time goes on.
Major Psychological problems:
These are psych lims at the Strong level. Unreasonable fears, unusual behavior and wierd ethics all fall into this category. Get funky here, its okay (Fear of Gerbles, Delusions, etc)
Unbreakable Psych problems:
These are written up at the Total level. It takes a little while before the crazy develops these problems (30 or more experience accumulated). These Psychological problems can sometimes be downright dangerous, because the crazy cannot be convinced that they are not true. This is best used to represent serious delusions that the crazy is under, such as believing he is a superhero (because of his "powers") or that All Elves are secretly out to get him...beyond this, the mind tends to fragment, which brings us to...
Multiple personalities:
Multiple personalities occurs from some sort of trauma that a person does not wish to deal with. For the Crazy, it develops as a saftey measure so that the mind can continue to operate free of the stress of all its psychological problems.
Multiple personalities can be simulated with a combination of Psychological limitations and Accidental Change Limitation. Use the Accidental Change limitaion to see under what circumstance that a diffenrent personality has a chance of emerging. Split the various Psych lims (by this time, the character should have several) between the various personalities.
Of course, even after developing Multiple personalities, the Crazy will still be developing Psych lims (his mind will still be deteriorating) and those will get shuffled off to new personalities as they stack up. As a guideline, after developing multiple peronalities (around 50exp gained) the Crazy should develop an additional personality for every 20exp gained beyond that. Thus, a 240pt Crazy that started at 150pts, should probably have 4 personalities, minimum...(and upwards of 9 various Psychosis)
According to the RIFTS book, about 30% of Crazies suffer from Frenzy. This can also be considered one of their Psychosis and can develop at any point in a Crazy's career...
Stay tuned for the O.O.C....wait, I mean, Package Deals for both The Crazy and The Juicer.
Morningstar:

Okay.
Borgs should be easy.
First there's the Headhunters - they have one bionic limb. The limb itself should be bought to the Strength (properly rounded.) Ie: Amanda Kirk (my first Head Huntress, very high Comliness, I loved her) had a neat Bionic Arm.
I bought the arm as STR 25, 0 End, Right Arm Only -1/4, Does Not Affect Figured Str -1/2, Cybernetic Focus -1/4, Strength Independant of Base Char Strength -1. What does that last one mean? It means Strength starts at 0 for the Arm, and Amanda will have trouble if she tries to lift something more than her body normally could. For Example, Amanda can push the STR of the Bionic Limb to get a jeep off an ally, but she then takes 7d6 Damage for overstressing her body. The limb cost 13 points.
Cybernetic focus has been seen around a few places. I have Cyber-Hero, and I still can't quite fathom it. My interpretation - Cybernetics can be turned off or adversely affected by magnetic fields.
Mounted Weapons were either OIF or OAF depending on their vulnerability.
A partial conversion borg has a reinforced spine and skeleton, full limb replacement most likely, and a load of sensors in their head and body. Buy the Stats straight over, but round. A 24 STR isn't worth as much as either a 23 or a 25 STR. The Strength, Dex, and Running should be bought to 0 End (where appropriate), Does Not Affect Figured Characteristics, and Cybernetic Disadvantage.
To convert running, divide the final rate by 8, and buy the number of inches to reach that speed, and then give x4 NCM. (Say 122 yards gives you 15"x4NCM.)
Full Borgs buy Strength and Movement at 0 End. Instead of any of the previous limitations, buy levels of Growth, buy Damage Resistance to full level, but he has the Disadvantage: Physical Limitation: Does Not Heal, Must Be Repaired. A Full Conversion Borg is more robot than man. Since he can be deactivated, keep the Cybernetic focus limitation. Why lose "Does not affect figured?" Because you have a Brick, with snap-on guns. This Brick should have immunity to disease and aging, since most of his vulnerable organs are gone. Breathe Unusual should be taken too. Other life supports as necessary.

Champsguy:
Some more of my Rifts/Hero babblings:
I whipped up a few Rifts characters in Hero, and found that a good starting point for a fairly powerful Rifts character is 150 points.
Now, since it's a heroic power level game, you're not going to be spending points on mega damage weapons (you're gonna spend money on them). This also seems to mirror Paladium's view on external weapons and innate powers. One character has to spend PPE and attain 5th level before he can fire chronal energy blasts (5D6 MD) at someone, and it's a major hook of his character (I'm not talking about any character in specific, just a general Palladium trend). But anyone can pick up a MD rifle and shoot 5D6 blasts at people, without attaining 5th level and without having it be a major hook of their character.
This is good, since it means that a staple of the "balance" (and I use that term with as loose a meaning as possible) of Rifts is not disrupted. In other words, in Rifts, if a character has the innate ability to shoot energy blasts, then it's considered a major character ability that "balances out" against weaknesses your character might have (even if that ability sucks--virtually anybody with a magic sword is far better armed than a cyber-knight with his PsiSword, but he still counts it as a major part of his character abilities). This is the same as Champions charging a character points for an ability that can be duplicated for free by someone with a high powered weapon. The logic Siembieda uses is that your character can never truly be disarmed (unless they happen to have a Psi-Nullifier near you, and totally ignoring the idea that if they hadn't been given such a suck-ass power they might never have been caught in the first place). So we just carry that logic over to Hero and we charge points for innate abilities, but not for Mega Damage weapons. And I ask you, what is Rifts without Siembieda logic???
So anyway, 75 points + 75 in disadvantages seems pretty good. That lets you construct a nice juicer or crazy (are the juicer and crazy templates still up on this board? I forgot who posted them, but they worked well). The problem came when trying to make a SAMAS or Glitter Boy pilot. Do we charge points for the power armor? You could certainly build them as a vehicle. But even then, the expense becomes monstrous (even if you ignore the fact that a vehicle becomes much more expensive if it's more points than it's owner). So I decided to cheat. I made being a pilot of such a machine (which I ended up just building as a focus, since that's the way it plays in Rifts) a perk. It costs 25 points to be a SAMAS or Glitter Boy pilot. This represents training, security clearance, and a lot of other crap that allows you to effectively use the suit. If you're a coalition guy, it represents authorization. If you've got a black market suit, it represents those contacts. I suppose it could be broken down into individual contacts, smaller perks (5 point perk: coalition authorization for Samas use; 5 point perk: Samas training; etc), but I didn't feel any particular need for that.
How did I come up with 25 points? Easy. I didn't want one character to build a guy with 150 points worth of stats, skills, and abilities, and then be able to just grab a Samas suit as well, while another character took virtually the exact same skills and got stuck with Dead Boy armor. So again, Rifts logic came of use. A Samas pilot is an OCC. That means that there's enough training required so that not everyone can do it. Siembieda obviously thought that there was a difference between everyone running around with a laser rifle and everyone running around with power armor. So therefore it had to cost some sort of points, and not be free equipment. On the other hand, it's not unbelievably more powerful than off-the-rack stuff. Paying full cost for it would mean that nobody would take it. So basically, I fleshed out what I thought would be a good starting package for the Samas pilot (all the normal starting skills, decent stats, etc) and then looked at how many points were left over. The decent starting stats and skills (with a little extra for personal touches) put him at about 125 points, so I promptly decided that the extra 25 were a good price for the "Samas fee" and charged him that.
Now, on to defenses:
Remember, Rifts is Palladium and this is Hero.
In other words, certain Palladium game mechanics aren't gonna apply here. Just like you don't spend Endurance in Palladium, you don't have to worry about Armor Ratings here. If someone rolls a 4 to hit you, you're still gonna be protected by your armor (unless you buy it on an activation roll).
Also, just like in the D&D conversion to Hero, where Armor Class isn't represented by a simple modification to DCV, but as actual Armor (Full Plate isn't +8 DCV, but +8/8 Armor), the method for determining armor protection in Hero and Rifts will differ as well. Armor degrades in Rifts because that's the way Palladium handles it--that's their standard, regardless of whether it's in Heroes Unlimited, Palladium Fantasy, Nightbane, or Rifts. In Hero, armor doesn't degrade. That's not the Hero standard. It doesn't degrade in Champions, Fantasy Hero, Horror Hero, Western Hero, or in Cyber Hero. So in our case, armor won't degrade in Hero Rifts. If we were converting Palladium Fantasy, no one would advocate degrading plate mail (like there was something inherently different in the armor from that world), so why should it degrade in Rifts? Answer: it shouldn't.
So we have to go with the Hero standard: armor reduces damage taken per shot. This becomes a lot easier now, because you don't have to worry about funky ablative limitations. So you figure that a MD personal weapon should be able to hurt a guy in MD body armor, and likewise a MD power armor weapon should be able to hurt power armor. I gave a few examples earlier in this thread. A good measurement is probably +2/2 or +3/3 armor for each doubling of Mega Damage Capacity of armor (and then add half again that amount in non-resistant def for the obligatory "stun shield" to protect the occupant from getting knocked out too much). That seems to work pretty well. For vehicles, just use the base Armor (and not the increased nonresistant PD/ED), since they don't have to worry about Stun.
5/5 Armor (+3 PD +3 ED): 50-60 MDC
8/8 Armor (+4 PD +4 ED): 100-120 MDC
12/12 Armor (+6 PD +6 ED): 200-250 MDC (light power armor like Samas)
15/15 Armor (+8 PD +8 ED): 400-500 MDC (Atlantis power armor/large vehicles)
18/18 Armor (+9 PD +9 ED): 800-1000 MDC (Glitter Boys and other really, really tough stuff)
So a Glitter Boy would probably be around 17/17 Armor, with +9/9 PD and ED additionally. Add that to the 5 PD and 5 ED that the pilot probably has, and you're looking at a guy with 31 total defense. Most attacks will harmlessly bounce right off, even things like Samas rail guns. In Rifts, a boom gun will take 7 or 8 shots to down another Glitter Boy. Here, with a 4D6 RKA Boom Gun, that's an average of 14 Body and (assuming a x3 Stun multiplier) 42 Stun. So the pilot takes 11 Stun on an average shot (some will do much more, some much less). If you want, you could have the Glitter Boy give the pilot an extra 10 or 20 Stun, to represent it's durability even more. Probably one 1 out of 3 shots will put Body on the guy, and assuming a Body of 11 or 12, that's only 3 or 4 above average shots before the pilot inside is dying. Is it exactly the same odds as in Rifts? No. That's like 9 or 10 shots until he's dead, not 7 or 8. You can tweak the numbers bit by bit until it's really close. One damage class here, one point of armor here, and you can get the exact results you want.
Better yet, this lets you have Superman fly in and do a 25D6 grab and tear that Glitter Boy armor right off the guy (which is how it is in the comics). So then you don't have to use crappy Heroes Unlimited for you super-brawls.

Morningstar:
I'm glad you checked out the Kazei 5 borgs. As soon as I saw them, I was making a mental note to send you to Michael Surbrook's webpage which had a nice long, drawn-out description of Kazei 5 cyborgs - highly similar to Rifts Cyborgs.
Also, the Kazei 5 psychics seem ideally suited to a Rifts Supertelekinetic RCC.
Some points/thoughts on Rifts Conversions:
1) Preserve the OCC's/RCC's. They make good basises for Package deals.
2) Use Fantasy Hero extensively for demons, dragons and Deebee Racial Package Deals and Social Package deals. I'll see what I can do today for a Dragon Package Deal.
3) When dealing with weapon conversions:
Equate the Megadamage Weapon to an SDC Weapon. Find the equivalent in Hero. Add 6 Damage Classes. Voila, Mega-damage weapon.
4) For Mega-Armor: Don't forget that when you put on the Dead Boy Armor, you get +5 DEF Armor, you should also get full Damage Resistance for your DEF already. Buy the extra Damage Resistance as:
Damage Resistance: 10 PD and 10 ED are Resistant, Only up to DEF of User -1/2, OIF Armor. 5 pts.
Example.
Mike wants to buy a set of Heavy Dead Boy Armor as a focus, so that he can get it repaired without spending amounts of money on it - having it bought with points as a focus simulates Mike having an armor repair kit and a reserve of cash and/or spare parts devoted to his beloved armor.
The Heavy Dead Boy Armor is bought as:
a) Armor: +8rPD/+8rED, OIF Armor: 16pts.
b) Damage Resistance: 10 PD/10ED Resistant, Only up to PD/ED of user -1/2, OIF Armor: 5pts.
c) Life Support: Need Not Breathe (1 Charge lasting 1 Hour - 7pts), Safe in Radiation, Safe in Extreme Temperatures: 9pts.
d) +10 Presence, Offensive Only, OIF Armor: 4pts.
e) Radio Communication: Radio Listen and Transmit: OIF Armor: 3pts.
f) IR Vision: OIF Armor: 3 pts.
Mike's armor is worth 40 points. Note: This can be put towards Mike's equipment allottance, and remember, this armor puts him on a more equal footing with more powerful characters.
Just some thoughts. Anything else?
For the 50th post in this thread, I figured I'd lay a basic Headhunter on you.
Note: Without the package deal, Stetson is exorbandently powerful.
Name: Mike Stetson - Headhunter
Val Char Cost
18 STR 8
18 DEX 24
18 CON 16
12 BODY 4
13 INT 3
11 EGO 2
15/25 PRE 5
10 COM 0
6 PD 2
6 ED 2
4 SPD 12
8 REC 0
36 END 0
30 STUN 0
Characteristic Rolls:
STR: 13-, DEX: 13-, CON: 13-, INT: 12-, EGO: 11-, PER: 14-
Run: 6", Swim: 2", Jump: 4" long/2" high, Lift: 300kg/660 lbs.
Cost Powers END/Roll
3 Deadboy Armor Elemental Control 5 pt. Reserve, OIF Armor -1/2
13 a) Armor: +8rPD/+8rED, OIF Armor
3 b) Damage Resistance: 10 PD/10ED Resistant, Only up to PD/ED of user -1/2, OIF
Armor
5 c) Life Support: Need Not Breathe (1 Charge lasting 1 Hour - 7pts), Safe in Radiation,
Safe in Extreme Temperatures
2 d) +10 Presence, Offensive Only -1, OIF Armor
3 Radio Communication: Radio Listen and Transmit: OIF Armor
3 IR Vision: OIF Armor
40 Firebreather A-14 Assault Multipower (100 Point Reserve), OAF Laser Rifle, Two-Handed
Weapon -1/2
4u Assault Laser: 4d6 RKA, 4 Clips of 30 Charges (+1/2), Beam Attack -1/4, No
Knockback -1/4
2u Grenade Launcher: 3d6 RKA Explosion, 4 Clips of 4 Charges (-3/4)
1u Targeting Optics: +2 OCV
23 Vibro Knife: 3d6 HKA vs. ED (4d6 w/STR) OAF -1
17 Combat Motorcycle
6 Alert and Perceptive: +2 w/All Perception
18 Headhunter Combat (Dirty Infighting)
Maneuver OCV DCV Effect
(4) Block 8 8 Block, Abort
(4) Disarm 5 7 Disarm, 28 STR/35 STR w/Bionic Arm
(4) Elbow Smash/
Punch 6 8 5 1/2d6/7d6 w/Bionic Arm
(5) Roundhouse/
Low Kick 4 7 7 1/2d6/9d6 w/Bionic Arm
(1) Use Art with Bionic Arm
Cost Skills, Talents, Perks Roll
9 + 3 Levels w/Dirty Infighting
6 +3 Levels w/Forearm Blaster
10 +2 Levels w/Small Arms
6 Headhunter Package
(5) Headhunter Cybernetics and Bionics Elemental Control (5 Pt. Reserve)
(2) a) Bionic Arm: + 7 Strength, 0 END +1/2, Doesn't Affect Characteristics -1/2,
Right Arm Only -1/4, OIF Bionic Arm -1/2
(3) b) Retractable Finger Blades: 1/2d6 HKA (1d6 w/STR), Right Arm Only -1/4,
OIF Bionic Arm -1/2
(26) c) Forearm Ion Blaster: 10d6 EB, Beam Attack -1/4, OIF Bionic Arm -1/2, Feeds off
END Reserve
(2) d) Headjack: Mind Link, Any One Mind, Only With Computerized Items -1, Cybernetic -1/4
(4) Ion Blaster Power Battery, END Reserve: 30 END, 3 REC, OIF Bionic Arm
(3) Criminology: 12-
(3) Streetwise: 12-
(3) Survival: 12-
(3) Tracking: 12-
3 Well Travelled
6 AK's @ 11-: Coalition Northern Gun Territory 11-, Coalition: Chi-Town Territory 11-, Lazlo
11-, Ishpimeg 11-, Free Quebec 11-, Tolkeen 11-
3 Scholar
5 KS's @ 11-: Coalition Military Forces 11-, Common DeeBees 11-, Common Monsters 11-,
Wanted Fugitives 11-, Rifts North America Hotspots 11-
3 Combat Driving: Motorcycle 13-
3 Navigation: 11-
3 Demolitions: 11-
3 Gambling: 11-
3 Trading: 12-
5 Wealth: Well Off
1 Literacy
150+ Disadvantages
3 Headhunter Package Bonus
5 Package: Distinctive Features: Headhunter (Easily Concealed, Noticed and Recognized)
15 Package: Distinctive Features: Bionic Limb(s) (Not Concealable, Noticed and
Recognized)
15 Package: Psych Lim: Headhunter's Code of Honor, Common, Strong
10 Package: Reputation: Headhunter (Gun for hire) 11-
15 Psych. Lim: Hates Bigotry of Any Kind, Common, Strong
10 Psych. Lim: Vengeful, Uncommon, Strong
25 Hunted: The Coalition, More Powerful, NCI, 11-, Harsh
10 Enraged: Innocents are Harmed, Common, 11-, 11-
15 DNPC: Geeluk (DeeBee Child), Incompetant, Useful Skills, 14-
10 Reputation: Outlaw Headhunter Fighting the Coalition, 11-
5 Rivalry: Other Headhunters (Professional)
10 Phys Lim: Cannot Heal Damage to Bionics, Needs Specialized Technical Assistance,
Infrequently, Greatly.
15 Hunted: Renegade Magician Whose Plot Was Foiled, As Pow, 11-, Harsh
31 Experience
Equipment: 119 points.
OCV: 6; DCV: 6; ECV: 4; Mental Def.: 0; Phases: 3, 6, 8, 12
PD/rPD: 14/14; ED/rED: 14/14
COSTS: Char.: 78 Disad.: 184
Powers: + 87/206 w/Equipment Base: + 100
Total: = 165/284 w/Equipment Total: = 284
Stetson is a throwback to the old Wild West, pre-Rifts, except, that instead of a Winchester Lever Action and a trusty six-gun, he has a six-shot ion blaster in one forearm and an assault laser rifle and a grenade launcher. He's a man of honor and tolerance for the differences of life, to a point where he has become a hated enemy of the Coalition States. One such conflict resulted in Stetson picking up a small DeeBee child of psychic ability named Geeluk and caring for her. She refuses to go with anyone else, but in a fight will stay well hidden while Stetson goes to town.
In combat, Stetson tries to keep some distance between himself and his enemies, unless he's bringing in a bounty. Then he closes to hand-to-hand range and gives as good as he can, relying on his quickness and the bionic strength of his right arm. If he can't handle the enemy with mere muscle, he resorts to his Vibro-Knife and finger blades.
Nusoard:

RIFTS CONVERSIONS:
THE CYBERKNIGHT
5pt elemental control(5):
+3STR/DEX: ACT(12) REAL(7)
+3CON/BOD: ACT(12) REAL(7)
+4PRE/+3EGO: ACT(10) REAL(5)
+1SPD: ACT(10) REAL(5)
+10STN: ACT(10) REAL(5)
PSI Sword-1D6HKA(15)AP(+1/2)0End(+1/2): ACT(30)Real(25)
Cost: 59
Optional PSI Powers:
Note: Many Cyberknights train their mind to the point where they develop Psi powers in addition to the Psisword. Any psi power is applicable. In general these are limited to 30 active points or less at the start and limited in number as well. Add any Psi powers to the Elemental control. Common powers include:
Empathy: (Telepathy, only to read targets emotional state. Includes Detect emotions which is bought targeting)
Mind Block: (+10 Mental Defense, Resistant. Additional abilities include 25% Mental Reduction)
Object Read: (Clairsentience: Retrocognition...based on Focus)
See the invisible
Sense Evil (targeting of course)
Sense Magic (also targeting)
Sixth Sense (danger sense, out of combat, anyone near)
Speed Reading (pretty straightforward)
Summon inner strength (+10STN/+5CON[not af figured] Cost end)
note that the above abilities are typical, but by no means indicate the only abilities a Cyberknight exhibits. Any Psi power can manifest.
Note that the Cyberknight has extensive physical and mental training which is similar to the training that Shaolin monks recieve, and is reflected in the above statistics in the EC. All of the Characteristics DO affect figured characteristics.
Here's the Skill package:
Literacy (w/American): 1pt
Language (Elven/Dragon): 2pts
Language (pick two at basic proficiency): 2pts
KS: Demons and Supernatural evil at +1: 3pts
KS: Anthropology: 2pts
Paramedic: 3pts
Navigation: 3pts
Riding: 3pts
Climbing: 3pts
Acrobatics: 3pts
WF: Small arms: 2pts
WF: Common Melee: 2pts
15 points worth of Martial Arts Maneuvers.
Perk: Fringe Bennie-Cyberknight: 5pts
Skill package 48 points.
Note that the Fringe benefit, CyberKnight means that when the character is recognized as a Cyberknight in many places he will be the object of adulation by the population at large. This is a two sided coin in the fact that, yes, the CyberKnight will often get free food, clothing, gifts, lodging, sex (yeah, the chicks dig them...too bad most C-Knights are boyscouts and turn it down) but they also will be hunted by the Coalition, by evil warlords and intelligent evil beasties. They will also get approached by peasants who will have problems they believe the C-knight will be able to solve...oftentimes problems big enough to get the knight killed.
The following are typical Disadvantage found in Cyberknights:
DNPC: It is common for knights to take on an apprentice. This "squire" will be a burden on the knight until such a time that he is skilled enough to hold his own. Oftentimes knights will be given charge to protect someone for an unspecified amount of time.
Distinctive Feature: Many knights (though not all) dress the part. They wear medieval style armor (though still high tech in manufacture and function), ride war horses (though sometimes Cybernetic or robotic in nature) and use melee weapons (teched out of course) against even advanced opponents. Their behavior as well, is oftentimes so pronounce, it identifies them almost instantly.
Hunted and Watched: More often hunted than watched. The Cyberknight monastery is so remote, that it cannot keep tabs on all of its knights...though certain knights will be watched at times. The Coalition states has a bounty on all Cyberknights, so this is a given.
Psychological Limitation: there are many that would apply, but the main one's include:
Code of the CyberKnight: this is required of all knights. It is a cross between the Code of Chivalry, Code of Bushido and Code of Honor. For most knights it is Common and Total. Any knight who does not follow this code will be brought in to face justice at the monestary by their fellow knights.
Public Identity: Many Cyberknights exploits become legendary. In certain areas, cyberknights often become figures of tall tales. Particularly famous Cyberknights are treated like the Rifts equivalent to a 21st century Movie Star or Rock Star.
Reputation: Cyberknights definately have reputations. If a person is revealed to be a knight, most people how certain preconceptions about them. This can often work against a knight as it will work for them.
Rivalry: A friendly rivalry often arises between knights during their training period. Sometimes Cyberknights and Undead Slayers compete on who is the better slayer of evil.
Secret Identity: Some Cyberknight prefer to go incognito. The amount of attention a cyberknight generates is just too much for their tastes...so they don't dress like a cyberknight, or overtly act like one (or the obvious ones in anycase).
There you have it. The Cyberknight.
Affordable in a 150point game, and not too shabby on the physical side as well.
The Cyberknight package includes most of the skill necesary to get along in the world of Rifts (except for maybe Powered Armor or vehicle piloting) and even after purchasing the Skill package and the basic EC, there is still 43 points let to customize with in a 150 point game or 93 points(!) left in a 200 point game.
Note that the Cyber Armor was left out. I think it should be player choice whether or not their character employs the cyberarmor. In anycase, use subdermal armor characteristics foundin Kazei-5 (should use Subdermal-3 costs 8 points for 7DEF armor which covers locations 9-12)
Morningstar:

Juicer fixer...
Juicer Package Elemental Control:
10pt EC:
+10STR/+5PD/+5ED (20pts). Cost:10pts
+5Con/+5Bod (20pts) Cost:10pts
+7Dex (21pts) Cost:11pts
+2SPD (20pts) Cost:10pts
+5REC/+20End (20pts) Cost:10pts
+20Stun (20pts) Cost:10pts.
+5"(x4)running/+5"superleap (20pts) Cost:10pts
Total cost: 81pts (for 141pts worth of characteristics)
3 Juicer Amplification Elemental Control, All Stats OIF Juicer Chemical Collar -1/2,
5 point Reserve
2 a) Increased Physique: +10 STR, Does Not Affect Figured -1/2
10 b) Increased Agility: +7 Dex, Does Not Affect Figured -1/2
2 c) Increased Endurance: +5 Con, Does Not Affect Figured -1/2
2 d) Increased Physique: + 5 Body, Does Not Affect Figured -1/2
3 e) Increased Durability: +5PD/+5ED, 5
10 f) Increased Reflexes: +2 SPD
3 g) Increased Endurance: +5 REC
3 h) Increased Endurance: +20 END
10 f) Increased Durability: +20 Stun
7 g) Increased Mobility: +5" x 4 Mobility
Total Cost: 55 points for 126 points worth of Characteristics.
Now for the disadvantages:
15 Phys Lim: Addicted to Juicer Collars, Frequently, Minor
15 Dependance: Juicer Collar (15 points worth, I'm without my book)
15 Phys Lim: Juicer Drugs Will Kill Character 4-8 Years From Getting Juicer Collar.
So, let's say 10 points for being a Drugged Up Superman...
Except you aren't gonna live a long time in game time.
Temporal Wizards should be able to stack up Juicers like cordwood with just a wave.

Champsguy:
My thoughts on Rifts and ECs:
There's nothing wrong with giving Juicers and Crazies ECs, since the GM is writing them up. Sure, if players were doing the writeups, you'd have a problem. But since the GM defines everything, it's safe. So really, there's not much difference between giving a Juicer an EC and giving him an extra 60 points.
There is however, one reason I came across to allow the use of ECs. Rifts has unbalanced character classes by nature. Players and GMs alike know that a juicer is gonna beat the hell out of a squad of coalition soldiers. As it is (using the ECs, and not paying points for weapons), I found that you can build a nice juicer for 150 points. But if you try and build an average coalition grunt on 150 points, he becomes waaaaaaaaayyy too skilled. Remember, these are guys who can't even read. They're much more accurate if they're built on 100 points. So basically, you've got a breakdown of expense:
At the top of the list:
Cyberknights--the combination of cybernetics, psionics, combat abilities, and skills results in a high cost. 150+ points for a good conversion.
Juicers and Crazies are next. The EC gives a good cost break to these powerful character classes. They don't have a lot of skills, but they make up for it with high stats. 150 points.
Power armor pilots--these characters have good stats and lots of skills. I charged a 25 pt "power armor fee" that bumped them up to 150. Otherwise, 125 points for a solid character.
Grunts--these guys aren't as highly trained as their power armored brothers. If built on 150 points, then they've got way too many skills. 100 points.
Basically, to build a good Juicer/Crazy/Cyber Knight without some kind of cost break is gonna mean that they're gonna be twice as expensive as another character. Putting in the EC gives you a little similarity in point costs, at least. Even then, some characters are gonna be less than others. Any skill character built on a full 150 are gonna have about all the skills they'll need. Champions stats convert almost straight across, so most'll have stats in the 13-18 range (for their good stats) or 10-15 (for their average stats). That means they'll have a ton of points left for skills. That's way more than your average city rat needs.
There's one more reason to allow the EC. Rifts has its own internal "balance" to it. Giving Juicer ECs helps keep that balance. After all, a juicer gets his stat bonuses from a juicer harness and drugs. A pilot gets his from a SAMAS suit. Why should one pay the full points for his stats, while another gets his for free? That's why it's acceptable to give juicers a cost break.

[gauss]

Thanks Champsguy! This should prove helpful.

[cubist]

Wow, thanks Champsguy, I might not use all of that stuff, but it was nice to get it for a sort of effort reduction method on my part.

[Grymlynn]

Champsguy, you da bomb! That was precisely what I was talking about, but I couldn't find it... So, I believe I'll be using the ol' cut&paste...

[Old Man]

That was a good read except mega damage weapons are 10,000% more powerful than standard weapons. The point being that if you were hit by the most rinky dink mega damage weapon you would die unless you had mega damage armor. Pretty minor point.

[Champsguy]

Originally posted by Shadowpup
That was a good read except mega damage weapons are 10,000% more powerful than standard weapons. The point being that if you were hit by the most rinky dink mega damage weapon you would die unless you had mega damage armor. Pretty minor point.

That was addressed in the discussion. To put it bluntly, we went with "that am stupid and us change it to make better".

Also, Rifts has a little problem with their damage numbers. You see, a modern day tank has about 800 SDC. A mere 2D6 MD pistol will blow up a tank a good portion of the time. However, 2D6 MD isn't even 100 times as powerful as a standard palladium handgun (3D6 to 4D6 SDC). Why is that a problem? Because, in real life, if you shoot a weapon that's 50 to 75 times as powerful as a 357 magnum at a tank, you're still not gonna do jack to the tank. Anti-tank weapons are hundreds (plural), if not thousands of times more powerful than normal handguns. Rifts' numbers am skewed in the first place. Therefore we felt okay with tweaking the numbers towards our tastes.

[cubist]

Champs, one thing I noticed on quickly perusing that file(have not yet had time to read through it)- what's up with using ECs for Juicers and Crazies- I mean it is less expensive, but characteristics other than strength cannot go into ECs, right? Otherwise, nifty stuff that I'm looking forward to sifting through.

[Champsguy]

Originally posted by cubist
Champs, one thing I noticed on quickly perusing that file(have not yet had time to read through it)- what's up with using ECs for Juicers and Crazies- I mean it is less expensive, but characteristics other than strength cannot go into ECs, right? Otherwise, nifty stuff that I'm looking forward to sifting through.

Well, two things. One, this is a little old, and 5th Edition was only a pipe dream when we were discussing this. Two, there might be some discussion in there as to why ECs were used (and there might not). I snipped a lot of the conversations, but that was only so I could access certain stuff while offline (thus a lot of stuff got left out). There was a large debate on using ECs, and it may or may not be in there. The general idea was that Juicers and Crazies can be on the same teams as Borgs, City Rats, and Glitter Boys. ECs were some attempt at giving everyone a similar starting point level. There was, however, much disagreement as to whether we should even bother with that.

I'm not really advocating one way or another.

[Old Man]

Originally posted by Champsguy
That was addressed in the discussion. To put it bluntly, we went with "that am stupid and us change it to make better".

Also, Rifts has a little problem with their damage numbers. You see, a modern day tank has about 800 SDC. A mere 2D6 MD pistol will blow up a tank a good portion of the time. However, 2D6 MD isn't even 100 times as powerful as a standard palladium handgun (3D6 to 4D6 SDC). Why is that a problem? Because, in real life, if you shoot a weapon that's 50 to 75 times as powerful as a 357 magnum at a tank, you're still not gonna do jack to the tank. Anti-tank weapons are hundreds (plural), if not thousands of times more powerful than normal handguns. Rifts' numbers am skewed in the first place. Therefore we felt okay with tweaking the numbers towards our tastes.

Oh no agree, I was just stating that your numbers were a little off. I found it distracting that no matter how tough you are in Rifts, if you aren't wearing armor, you're dead. The thing that threw me off was the whole "wow! this guy has have over 200 hp!...oh yeah, so what?"

[Champsguy]

Originally posted by Shadowpup
Oh no agree, I was just stating that your numbers were a little off. I found it distracting that no matter how tough you are in Rifts, if you aren't wearing armor, you're dead. The thing that threw me off was the whole "wow! this guy has have over 200 hp!...oh yeah, so what?"

Yeah, it irritated me too. That's why I lowered it to x10 damage for the conversions (although I think there are a few notes in there for making it the usual x100).

[cubist]

Yeah, when you said old list and then I saw that I was thinking that it might have been a while ago, but just making sure. The idea that I had for leveling out the Juicers, Crazies, Borgs, etc. was to put their powers into a package with class defining skills and then apply class common disadvantages to it, reducing the package cost but the Disadvantages would not count vs. character's total- basically use the Pre-5th package plans with no package discount for the skills.
Thanks for the clarification.

[Warp9]

Thanks for the Rifts conversion stuff Champsguy--it was very enlightening--and very cool.

I do have a question about something in the conversion relating to Juicers.

Specifically the place where you note the following:

"Note, in the RIFTS main book it states that a Juicer can lift 4 times more than a normal person of equivalent strength and endurance."

I have always read that statement as : "a Juicer can lift 4 times more than a normal person of equivalent (referring to the Juicer) strength and endurance."

I may be wrong, but I have always taken the statement from the Rifts book to mean, that one figures out how much the juicer could lift just based on his strength, as you would for a normal character, and then multiply it by 4. And the multiplication, when compounded with the Juicer's already high strength attribute, results in the Juicer coming out far stronger than a normal person.

You are obviously reading the statement as follows: "a Juicer can lift 4 times more than a normal person of equivalent (referring to the normal person) strength and endurance."

I was wondering if you had any specific data to back up your interpretation of the statement. . . .

[cubist]

I was sort of wondering about that too Warp9, the way I originally wrote my Juicers was with +10 strength, only for lfting(-1), O end cost(+1/2), for 7 points.
I also did this with crazies, giving them +5 strength, only for lifting(-1), 0 end(+1/2), cost 4 pts.

So far, I have conversions for the Juicers, Crazies, Cyberknights, Borgs and just starting the Headhunters...

When this thing is finished, would anyone be interested in trying it out as a PBEM? I've only Gm'd a few times but would love to give it a shot, especially with the great gamers hee on these boards :)

[Evil Steve]

Back when I was living in the Frosty North, some of us wanted to play Rifts using hero. We never really did, but I did a lot of Vehical conversions.

I got the process down to a fairly simple formula (this from someone who tanked out on higher maths)

Rifts to Hero Vehical Conversion notes

[main body/5]/[size level increase+1]=additional Body and total Def (Round up)

Therefore: A Death's head has 15 Size increases to make its length by width measurements and a Main Body MDC of 1300

[1300/5]/[15+1]=additional body and total def

[260]/[16]

16.25 rounded up to 17 additional body and 17 total def

Additional body does not include body granted by the size level increases

I've also got Power Armour conversions, but I can't remember the formula for that one (I think it was the same as above but generated Maximum Body/Def rather than additional).

They're in Herocreator format, but if you want them, I'll gladly beam them up.

[Dynamo]

Originally posted by Shadowpup
That was a good read except mega damage weapons are 10,000% more powerful than standard weapons. The point being that if you were hit by the most rinky dink mega damage weapon you would die unless you had mega damage armor. Pretty minor point.
Uh...

10,000% = x100

[tenebre]

wow someone liek me also.

i love rifts idea, but the game is the worst ever!

my biggest issue is nothign is balanced at all!!

but this is a great idea. I think the HERO crew should just create their own post apocalyptic world :-)

[AlHazred]

Originally posted by Dynamo
Uh...

10,000% = x100

Beat me to it...

I play in a Rifts HERO game, but we're only using the setting. The buildup is the PCs are a small military unit from 2015 who are sent to do crowd control in some rioting city (can't remember which one it was). Anyway, we're flying the copter there, when we enter a rift (they had just started showing up). We ended up in the Rifts world, not sure whether or not it was ours.

It's been a blast so far. Can't wait to see where it's going...

[Dynamo]

Originally posted by AlHazred
I play in a Rifts HERO game, but we're only using the setting. The buildup is the PCs are a small military unit from 2015 who are sent to do crowd control in some rioting city (can't remember which one it was). Anyway, we're flying the copter there, when we enter a rift (they had just started showing up). We ended up in the Rifts world, not sure whether or not it was ours.
Sounds like a good game.

I played in a GURPS Rifts game (that's a hernia waiting to happen) and found the setting to be amazingly portable. I think Hero would handle a number of things better than GURPS, like Juicers and mega-damage weapons & armor (though ANY well-integrated cross-genre rules engine would do a better job than the travesty of a "system" that is Palladium), but I have to say that the library of off-the-shelf genre elements already expressed in game mechanics available to GURPS players made preparation for the campaign a snap.

[Champsguy]

Originally posted by Warp9
Thanks for the Rifts conversion stuff Champsguy--it was very enlightening--and very cool.

I do have a question about something in the conversion relating to Juicers.

Specifically the place where you note the following:

"Note, in the RIFTS main book it states that a Juicer can lift 4 times more than a normal person of equivalent strength and endurance."

I have always read that statement as : "a Juicer can lift 4 times more than a normal person of equivalent (referring to the Juicer) strength and endurance."

I may be wrong, but I have always taken the statement from the Rifts book to mean, that one figures out how much the juicer could lift just based on his strength, as you would for a normal character, and then multiply it by 4. And the multiplication, when compounded with the Juicer's already high strength attribute, results in the Juicer coming out far stronger than a normal person.

You are obviously reading the statement as follows: "a Juicer can lift 4 times more than a normal person of equivalent (referring to the normal person) strength and endurance."

I was wondering if you had any specific data to back up your interpretation of the statement. . . .

Sorry it took me so long to respond. Washington DC has been snowed in, and I can only access the internet from school.

I really don't have an answer for you on this. These conversions were NuSoard's, and I just swiped them. I was never a big Rifts fan, but had this real thing for converting from one game system to another. I always just assumed that you calculated what a juicer could lift from his strength and multiplied by 4. Of course, it's your game, so you can do it however you like. :)

[NuSoardGraphite]

Yes in Rifts, you calculate what the Juicer can lift normally, then multiply by 4. This is AFTER figuring in the PS bonus for being a Juicer. (and for Martial Arts and Boxing and Gymnastics etc)

M.
U.
N.
C.
H.
K.
I.
N.

Spells RIFTS!

[ShadowRaptor]

Originally posted by cubist

When this thing is finished, would anyone be interested in trying it out as a PBEM? I've only Gm'd a few times but would love to give it a shot, especially with the great gamers hee on these boards :)

Sure I would be willing to join if it is possible.

[ShadowRaptor]

I know this is a drag, but to avoid any possible repercusions from KS at Palladium perhaps it would be wise to change the names of a few things, if only to avoid legal action. I am sure if he got wind of this discussion he would charge in and demand it stopped immediately, and I love the conversions so far presented.

That said, I hvae a quesiton: Why would it be bad to use the EC for racial packages/class packages? It makes sense to me, and it doesn't specify in the rules that they can't be done, right??? or I might have missed that when I read them last night, but then there is the almighty rule in the back...if something gets in the way of how something else works, either change it or do away with it... so take that into consideration also.

[KawangaKid]

Yeah we should call it... RAFTS.

[Doug McCrae]

Originally posted by ShadowRaptor
I know this is a drag, but to avoid any possible repercusions from KS at Palladium perhaps it would be wise to change the names of a few things, if only to avoid legal action.

He is probably the most litigious man in roleplaying.

[Doug McCrae]

Originally posted by gauss
Has anyone done any Rifts conversions to the HERO system?

I love the background (though I admit it is cheesy), but damn if I don't pretty much hate the rules.
Amen, brother. I've heard so many people express that exact same view. Great world, crap system.

[Thag13]

The rifts books have neat artwork though.....

I tried playing a Rifts game, and just coulnd't sog thru the system.

[cndblank]

So has have the Rifts/Hero games been going?

[cndblank]

Note: While not immune to normal attacks, He is able to ignore most of them. Any suggestions appreciated.

Name: Rifts Vampire (Secondary)

Val Char Cost
25 STR 20
18 DEX 24
18 CON 16
10/25 BODY 0
13 INT 3
14 EGO 8
15 PRE 5
14 COM 2
10 PD 7
10 ED 8
4 SPD 12
9 REC 0
36 END 0
47 STUN 0

Characteristic Rolls: STR: 14-, DEX: 13-, CON: 13-, INT: 12-, EGO: 12-, PER: 12-
Run: 6/7", Swim: 2", Jump: 5", Lift: 800kg

Cost Powers END/Roll
168 Vampire Powers
(20) Regeneration (4 BODY/Turn); Regenerate: Standard, +0; Not against Wood, Sunlight, Running Water, Holy Items, Silver, and Fire (while Staked): -1
(5) Regeneration (1 BODY/hour); Regenerate: Standard, +0; May Not Regenerate if in Sun or Staked: -¼
(30) Damage Reduction (Physical, 75% Resistant); Not against Wood, Sunlight, Running Water, Holy Items, Silver, and Fire (while Staked): -1
(15) Damage Reduction (Energy, 50% Resistant); Not against Wood, Sunlight, Running Water, Holy Items, Silver, and Fire (while Staked): -1
(2) Damage Resistance (5 PD/5 ED); Not against Wood, Sunlight, Running Water, Holy Items, Silver, and Fire (while Staked): -1
(3) Immune to Aging
(10) Need Not Breathe
(15) Doesn't Bleed
(20) +15 BODY; Not against stake in heart, having head severed, or another Vampire.: -½
(7) Mind Link (thralls/his own Vampires); Minds: Related Group, +10; Number of Minds: 1, +0; Distance: Single Planet, +0; Dimension: Current, +0; Link with: Anyone, +0; Limited to Summoning Mostly: -½
(7) +15 PRE; Offense Only (Horror): -1
(10) 1d6 Bite: Killing Attack (HTH) (Total 2d6); Range: 0; No Knockback: -¼; Restrainable: -¼ 1
(10) Sense Blood (+0 to PER); Time Required: Instant, +2; Range: Ranged, +5
(5) Ultraviolet Vision
(2) Running (+1", 7", NC: 14"); Non-Combat Multiplier: ×2, +0; Non-Combat (MPH): 3 1
(7) Multiform: Bat/Mist/Wolf; Form: Second, ×2; Works only Out of Sunlight: -½
Bat: Sonar, - 4 Per, +4 DCV, +6KB, and Flight 15"
Wolf: Running 14" +1 Spd
Mist: Desoldification (may not pass through solid objects) only 3" run
37 Vampire Powers: Multipower (37-pt reserve)
More powerful Vampires will have 8, 10 or even 12d6 Mental Powers
u-3 6d6 Hypnotic Gaze: Mind Control; Communication: Telepathic, +¼; Requires eye contact unless his own Thrall/Vampire: -¼ 4
u-3 6d6 Mind Scan; Attack Roll Bonus: 3, 6; Number of Minds: 100,000; Only against his own Thrall/Vampire: -½ 4
u-4 2d6 Transform Thall/Vampire (Major, Limited Class); Range: 185 4
u-2 6d6 Telepathy; Only against his own Thrall/ or a Vampire: -½ 3
u-2 Mental Defense (38 pts); Add to Total; Not against his own Sire and Elders or Ego Attacks/'Mental Illusions: -½
u-3 MV Fog: Darkness (Normal Sight, 3" radius); Range: 150 3
u-4 MV: Summon Vermin (1 0-point creatures); Range: 0; Summon: Limited Group, +¼ 4

Cost Skills, Talents, Perks Roll
3 Stealth 13-
1 Area Knowledge 8-
2 Professional Skill 11-
6 +2 level w/Bite: 3 Maneuvers

150+ Disadvantages
10 Distinctive Features Red Eyes when using Powers/Hungry/Enraged; Concealability: Easily, 5; Reaction: Always noticed & major reaction, +5
10 Distinctive Features: Low Body Heat; Concealability: Easily, 5; Reaction: Always noticed & major reaction, +5
25 Hunted by Vampire Hunters (14-); Capabilities: As Powerful, 10; Non-combat Influence: Extensive, +5; Geographical Area: Unlimited, -0; Actions: Hunting, ×1; Punishment: Harsh, 0
5 Watched by Elders (8-); Capabilities: More Powerful, 15; Non-combat Influence: None, +0; Geographical Area: Limited, -5; Only Watching: ×½; Punishment: Harsh, 0
10 Phys. Lim. cannot enter a human home without an invitation (Infrequently, Greatly)
10 Phys. Lim. Cannot cross running water even by flight (must use bridge) (Infrequently, Greatly)
20 Phys. Lim. Frozen if Staked in Heart (Frequently, Fully)
10 Susceptibility to holy items (1d6 STUN/Turn); Condition: Uncommon, +5
35 Susceptibility: to sunlight (3d6 STUN/Phase); Condition: Very Common, +15
10 Vulnerability Mind Powers of Sires (2× STUN); Attack: Uncommon, +5
15 Overconfidence/Evil Predator (Very Common, Moderate)
10 Disdainful of Technology (Uncommon, Strong)
8 Enraged if very Hungry (14-, 14-); Circumstances: Uncommon, +5
10 Reputation Vampire (8-, Extreme)

OCV: 6; DCV: 6; ECV: 5; Mental Def.: 38; Phases: 3, 6, 9, 12
PD/rPD: 10/5; ED/rED: 10/5

Costs: Char.: 105 Disad.: 188
Powers: + 235 Base: + 150
Total: = 340 Total: = 338

Background: Wild Vampire: Total drop Presence by 5, Drop Int by 5, Ego by 3, Com by 3 and increase speed by 1, increase Running to 9", and increase Offensive PRE by 10. Also remove no knock back from Bite (now has claws)


Master Vampire: Increase Strength by 10, Con by 5, Dex by 5, PD by 5, ED by 5, Speed by 2, Multipower by 25 and Bite levels by 4

[lensman]

I skimmed so if this has been discussed I apologize.

Mental Def.
Power def.
Lack of Weakness
Flash def.

Rifts has a variety of SFX: Magic, Psyker, Technology, Bio-Wizardry to name a few.

But If a have a psyker who buys Power def. then it works vrs. Nao-tech or Magic spels or anything?

Need I limit the SFX to a specific type, for no Limit?

And I weas thinking of making all such def. d6 based, So every 3 points of def. generates a 1d6 roll. Making it more dynamic.

Wadda'yal think?

[SCUBA Hero]

And I weas thinking of making all such def. d6 based, So every 3 points of def. generates a 1d6 roll. Making it more dynamic.

Wadda'yal think?I like it; kind of a reverse Standard Effect.

[NuSoardGraphite]

I recently borrowed my friends RIFTS book (mine dissapeared) and have been doing conversions. A friend of mine had borrowed my copy of FREd, so I had to wait until he was done with that, but now I got it back. I'll start posting 5th edition updates to the RIPS "Proffessional Character Archetypes" very soon. Starting with the Cyberknight.

These packages will be priced for a 250pt Heroic Level campaign (125 base with up to 125pts in disads) so adjust accordingly if you intend to use them for a lower powered game.

[lensman]

SCUBAHero:
That was my model, reverse standard effect.

I will be posting my first conversion from RIFTS to Hero
Skelebots will be posting here soon.

[Lord Liaden]

For folks who haven't checked my HERO RPG conversions list (linked to in my signature, below), there's a lot more RIFTS/HERO stuff already out there - although we can always use more quality material. :) Allow me to direct you:


Detailed discussion of various RIFTS game mechanics, conversion guidelines and examples, and writeups for several character classes:
http://www.herogames.com/oldForum/Champions/000157.html
http://www.herogames.com/oldForum/Champions/000157-2.html

(This includes the material posted by Champsguy at the start of this thread.)

Weapon Damage Class conversions, and writeups for Coalition weaponry and armor, and ley-line magic:
http://www.herogames.com/oldForum/Champions/000579.html

Writeups for the Crazy, Cyber Knight, Glitterboy, Juicer, and Dragon Hatchling:
http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=96757

Other approaches to MegaDamage:
http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28271

Palladium cybernetic implants:
http://www.angelfire.com/scifi2/mathew/hero-cybernetic.html

Palladium psionic abilities:
http://www.angelfire.com/scifi2/mathew/hero-psionic.html

RIFTS character profession Package Deals (left-hand column, "Occupation Packages") and racial Package Deals (center column, "Racial Packages"):
http://www.angelfire.com/scifi2/mathew/champions.html#packages

(NOTE: The links on the webpage above are sometimes cranky and may take you to the author's homepage instead. Just go Back and try the link again.)

[lensman]

Here now, my version of the Skelebot

You may think the points mean something, really, they don't
Before commenting Be sure to read the notes I left on various powers.

I welcome comments

[lensman]

Errr... Here now my Skelebot conversion

[lensman]

fourthbtry

[lensman]

Here is an easy to read formatted version

[Trencher]

How does armour work in your bot write up Lensman?

[lensman]

Glad you asked.

Morningstar11070 has a chart for converting RIFTS damage to Hero,
I used that as a baseline to decide how tough I wanted Skelebots to be.

A used hit location to distribute the Armor, trying to keep to the source material of Rifts for a faithful conversion.

Base Armor def of 10 to all locarions which is 1x Hardened.

Ablative Armor next, Also 1x Hardened. Now Ablative Armor in Hero works like this.
If the Ablative Armor is exceeded in BODY by an attack, then it (where "it" is the amount of Armor with the Ablative Limitation) begins to have an activation roll to apply vrs. any next attack. Pg. 115 5th Rev.
Clearly Ablative def is on "top" of all def, which means any BODY from any attack is first applied to Ablative def.
So lets take a look at a location and go through an attack, say the Torso
Location 9-14, Base armor of 10 H, 17 H, and 5 H2, with 4 charges remaining

A beserk Asphalt Elemental attacks with a 4 d6 hka, doing 19 Body.
The GM chooses not to expend a Charge for Armor, So total def. is 27, 10 + 17
So the Skelebot takes no BODY.
However 19 Body does exceed the Ablative Armor of 17 def, so that Armor now has an activation roll of 15-.
On the next attack the Asphalt Elemental activates his Beserk strength and uses a spear, fashioned from an APC's axle, doing 5.5 d6 HKA

The attack does 23 Body. Rolling for Activation 15- the Skelebot rolls 16, which means the activation fails. Total def. now is 10 H, the GM decides to use the Armor Charge making it 15 Def.
Meaning that 23 Body - 15 Armor = Skelebot takes 8 Body. A serious blow to its functions, and bad luck for the Skelebot, it's days are numbered.

On the up side since the Ablative Armor failed, the next Armor activation is still 15-

I hope that answered your question

[Trencher]

Okay, I understand now.

Great skelbot write up! :yes:

[Trencher]

Morningstar11070 has a chart for converting RIFTS damage to Hero,
I used that as a baseline to decide how tough I wanted Skelebots to be.

Hmm.. where is that?

[lensman]

It is located in post 38, Lord Liaden, under weapon damage

[lensman]

Trencher:
Thanks for the praise.
I think I will build Juicers from Juicer Uprising next

[Trencher]

Trencher:
Thanks for the praise.
I think I will build Juicers from Juicer Uprising next
Maybe you could write up glitter boys first? :eg:

[lensman]

I am almost afraid of what a Glitterboy would look like in Hero.

But I get to it straight away.

[Trencher]

Exellent! You have an eye for detail and you are not going overboard. :yes:

[lensman]

Thanks. If anyone benefits then I have done my job.

Since I have fulfilled one request, anyone have a request for my next conversion?

[lensman]

Hi Rifter yuo must be one of the four views. Do you play of GM Rifts Hero?

[Trencher]

Thanks. If anyone benefits then I have done my job.
It is the players in my campain who will "benefit" :sneaky:


Since I have fulfilled one request, anyone have a request for my next conversion?
How about the glitterboy killer bot? Or one samas variant?

[lensman]

I am beginning to think I am serving the forces of evil. Namely you Trencher.

I hope your players are not D-bee's, cause if they are, they are in a world of hurt.

The art for the Glitter boy killer armor is fantastic, I was just thinking of converting it, so... it is next.

[Trencher]

I am beginning to think I am serving the forces of evil. Namely you Trencher. :sneaky:


I hope your players are not D-bee's, cause if they are, they are in a world of hurt. Actually allthough I would like too I do not run a campain based in the Rifts world. I just use part of it for my own sci-fi-campain, Prosek is an Emperor of an planet for example. The old style dead boys make good evil empire grunts. The new style dead boys are from the allied planet Stark equally evil.


The art for the Glitter boy killer armor is fantastic, I was just thinking of converting it, so... it is next.
:thumbup: I agree the art is real good.

[Rifter]

Hi Rifter yuo must be one of the four views. Do you play of GM Rifts Hero?

Yes I started a Rifts Hero session some weeks before. The group and I played Rifts with the Palladium system for about 8 years. Then we stopped playing Rifts for about 5 years.
Now I've discovered the Hero System for me and I want to play Rifts again with the Hero System. The Problem is, that I'm new to the Hero System and I nee a lot of time to write up a charakter. So I'm happy that there are other people on the board who play Rifts Hero too. And with the conversions already made by others I have no problems to start a scenario.
I don't have that much time, so the conversion hasn't even started. But if i have something I will post it on this board :-).

[The Main Man]

Well, here's what I have since come up with (I used to be Dr. Dementos) after researching other's ideas and concocting my own.

First, I like the Mega-Damage = +7 DCs idea, that is the best approach.

Second, based on that, you can then make equivalent DEF based on MDC
Just use the HERO's geometric scale for comparison
A character with, say, 100 MDC is equivalent to having enough defense to defend against an average 7DC attack = 7 DEF
This also means that any given MDC creature or structure should have 7 DEF in addition to their other defenses

So let's take that Glitterboy for example.
Glitterboy Main Body = 770 MDC
2^9.5 = 724
3 Active Points to 2 DEF for every 5 Active Points to 1 Damage Class (3/5)
9.5 x 3 = 28.5 Active Points / 1.5 = 19 DEF + 7 DEF = 26 DEF.
So maybe Rifts is not so powerful, just imbalanced.
We all have super-characters that can take this guy.

But what about his Boom Gun?
If memory serves me correctly, that is 3d6x10 MDC
This is my personal preference for damage conversion, but it has its kinks:
I take the type of die of damage that an attack does, divide by 2 to simulate the standard effect. This damage must be assumed to be BODY damage. That remaining number is the equivalent # of Damage Classes.
So back to the Boom Gun:
3d6, using these rules = 9 DCs
x10 has already been established as = +3 DCs
MDC = x100 = +7 DCs
9 DCs +3 DCs +7 DCs = 19 DCs = 19d6 Normal Damage or 6d6+1 Killing Damage.
There's your Boom Gun Damage.
And the rest is relatively easy to convert.

Sometime later I'll post about how I have decided to go about converting OCCs and RCCs.

[fbdaury]

Rght now my computer needs a new power supply but once I get that(hopefully soon), I will then type up what I have come up with so far for Rifts Hero and then load to the Internet... Just don't hold me to any timeline on all of this...:ugly:

[lensman]

Ok, had to reference some rules and add more info for the Glitterboy armor that was actually in the Glitter boy Killer armor description
Here now the result

[lensman]

Here now, a taste of the Plasma Warhead Mini missle of which the Glitter boy Killer armor has 10x

I built these as vehicles. I think it is very dynamic.

Comments welcome

So 10x of this missle cost 67 points on the Glitter boy Killer Armor
Also, the Dex of the missle is 14 so on any Ph it is fired, if th ePilot of th eGlitter boy Killer armor i higher it does not fire until Dex 14.. And at Spd 12, the missle can move on any seg it is fired.

Folowing is a breakdown of the Missle speed in Segments:
Distence moved by seg (1 second)
1,843 kph / 60 minutes / 60 seconds = .5119 km per seg

Seg 1 Mv : Seg 2 Mv : Seg 3 Mv : Seg 4 Mv
zero - .5119 km : .5120 kn - 1.023 km : 1.024 - 1.535 km : --> 1.6 km

[Trencher]

It's smart to write the missiles up as venchiles so they act more like missiles.

[lensman]

Doing a bit more reseach on Vehicles.

Hero 5th ed rev. pg. 471
At non combat Mv, OCV is Zero, DCV is Half

And a driving roll is required to exert a CV, which means I have to
add a Combat Piloting roll.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Well, since a Glitter boy has to stand still and insert its anchors into the ground to fire, wouldn't that make it DCV 0 to fire the Boom Gun?

How about attempting to fire it while maneuvering? 1/2 OCV or 0 OCV?

[lensman]

Very true, however unles the GBK is within .5119 km it takes more than a seg to reach the Glitter boy. But ther GB is 0 DCV for a Ph which at spd 4 is 3 segs minimim and it also means the GBK has to time it right and hopefully is closer .
Ok. So 11- chance to hit a 0 DCV target with a 0 Ocv attack.
It occurs to me as well that only the Dex based CV is halved for non combat Mv, which after including Dcv for size and Velocity =
Dex(5/2) + Size 4 + Velocity Dcv 15 = 21.
Right?

[The Main Man]

Yesterday I bought the Ultimate Edition of Rifts, and it is pretty impressive for its line.
I still haven't spotted an editorial error, and at least KS gives us insight to his game design methods.
I wish that the other books would be redone similarly.
Of course, I wish that I had the perfect conversion method to HERO System, but I'm getting there.

[The Main Man]

What about converting the Attributes to CHAR?
Some of them are obvious, like IQ, PS, PB, Spd, but the others are a little trickier I have found.

[The Main Man]

What about converting Attributes to CHAR?
Some are easy to convert, but others cover different things in their respective systems (PE acts like CON and END, SDC is like STUN and limited DEF), and numerically speaking, conversion isn't so easy with them either, or else Palladium comes out looking like pansies, unless that just is the case.

[lensman]

How about attempting to fire it while maneuvering? 1/2 OCV or 0 OCV?

Not sure to what you are referring.
If it is the Firing of the Boom Gun, Rifts clearly indicates the auto matic knockback and possible damage by Firing the Boom gun without precautions.

[NuSoardGraphite]

I was thinking about this the other day.

The characteristics are pretty easy to convert over.

In RIFTS, human norm goes between 0 and 20. Characteristics exceeding 20 are possible, but rare. Hero's normal characteristic range is pretty much the same, thus with all but a few characteristics, you can assume a Palladium 10 equals a Hero system 10.

The characteristics match up pretty easily:

P.S. = STR
P.P. = DEX
P.E. = CON
I.Q. = INT
M.E. = EGO
M.A. = PRE
P.B. = COM
Spd = Running (in general)

Palladium does its Strength kinda weird though. Characters with Strength scores between 3 and 16 multiply their P.S. score by 10 to determine how much they can carry. The maximum amount they can lift is double that. Thus a P.S. of 11 in Palladium system equals STR 10 in Hero (both can lift 100KG/220 lbs)
However, characters with a P.S. of 17 or higher suddenly get a massive jump in lifting ability...they get to multiply their P.S. by 20 for carrying and by 40 for lifting! Thus a P.S. of 17 in Palladium/RIFTS is equal to a STR 18 in Hero (close to 700lbs)
Here's a close approximation chart on equavalent STR scores:

P.S. to STR

10 = 9 (200lbs)
11 = 10 (220lbs)
12 = 10 (240lbs)
13 = 11 (260lbs)
14 = 11 (280lbs)
15 = 12 (300lbs)
16 = 12 (320lbs)
17 = 18 (680lbs)
18 = 18 (720lbs)
19 = 19 (760lbs)
20 = 19 (800lbs)
25 = 21 (1000lbs)
30 = 22 (1200lbs)

Note that a Hero system STR of 19 can lift around 792lbs (360kg) which is only 8lbs shy of Palladium's P.S. 20 at 800lbs.

Hit Point to Body conversions are a bit more difficult. The main reason is because characters in RIFTS gain more Hit Points as they increase their level of experience. HERO does not do this, though characters can certainly buy more Body as they gain EXP, this is a fairly rare occurrance. Thus is it probably best to purchase Body based on the type of character one is building.

Men of Arms: Typically Body of 12 to 15
Borgs: This should be covered as part of the Partial and Full conversion packages, but probably averages 15 Body for a Partial Conversion to 20+Body for a full conversion borg.
Men of Science: Typically Body between 8 and 12. The average human Body scores.
Practitioners of Magic: As men of science, they usually fall into the average range, though this tends to be on the low average (8 to 10) to save points for magic
Adventurers (City Rat, Wilderness Scout, Vagabond etc): Tend to fall in the average human range (8-12) though Wilderness Scouts get a bonus and tend to fall in the high average (11-12)
D-Bees: Variable depending on the nature of the being in question.
Special Men of Arms: (Cyberknight, Juicer, Crazie etc) These guys fight so often, they tend to average around Body 15 or higher for survivability purposes. The lowest common denominator, the Cyber Knight, would hover around Body 15. Crazies around Body 17 and Juicers even higher (though don't get too outrageous, they are still flesh and blood, unlike Borgs) All of these packages would include bonuses to initial Body score.

[memorax300]

Conversions Palladium material to other games is not allowed. Thread locked. Thread locked. Why is it not working oops wait this is not the Palladium Message boards. :)

[The Main Man]

I was thinking about this the other day.

The characteristics are pretty easy to convert over.

In RIFTS, human norm goes between 0 and 20. Characteristics exceeding 20 are possible, but rare. Hero's normal characteristic range is pretty much the same, thus with all but a few characteristics, you can assume a Palladium 10 equals a Hero system 10.

The characteristics match up pretty easily:

P.S. = STR
P.P. = DEX
P.E. = CON
I.Q. = INT
M.E. = EGO
M.A. = PRE
P.B. = COM
Spd = Running (in general)

Palladium does its Strength kinda weird though. Characters with Strength scores between 3 and 16 multiply their P.S. score by 10 to determine how much they can carry. The maximum amount they can lift is double that. Thus a P.S. of 11 in Palladium system equals STR 10 in Hero (both can lift 100KG/220 lbs)
However, characters with a P.S. of 17 or higher suddenly get a massive jump in lifting ability...they get to multiply their P.S. by 20 for carrying and by 40 for lifting! Thus a P.S. of 17 in Palladium/RIFTS is equal to a STR 18 in Hero (close to 700lbs)
Here's a close approximation chart on equavalent STR scores:

P.S. to STR

10 = 9 (200lbs)
11 = 10 (220lbs)
12 = 10 (240lbs)
13 = 11 (260lbs)
14 = 11 (280lbs)
15 = 12 (300lbs)
16 = 12 (320lbs)
17 = 18 (680lbs)
18 = 18 (720lbs)
19 = 19 (760lbs)
20 = 19 (800lbs)
25 = 21 (1000lbs)
30 = 22 (1200lbs)

Note that a Hero system STR of 19 can lift around 792lbs (360kg) which is only 8lbs shy of Palladium's P.S. 20 at 800lbs.

More to come....

Last night, I came up with some pretty decent conversion rules.

IQ = INT (Make A Direct Conversion, IOW, The Same Quantity)
ME = EGO (3 x (Save Versus Psionic Attack + 3))
MA = PRE (Direct Conversion, but this one's a little funky if you look at enough characters)
PS = STR (Compare by Equivalent Lifting Maximums)
PP = DEX (3 x (Strike/Parry/Dodge Bonus +3))
PE = CON (and END, but don't bother with END) (Direct Conversion, same problem as MA - PRE)
PB = COM (Direct Conversion)
Spd = Running (Compare Speeds)

SDC = STUN and Normal Defenses
This is slightly complicated but here goes.
First, compare SDC total to Geometric Chart
For STUN:
If Heroic, Divide corresponding Active Points by 5
If Superheroic, Divide corresponding Active Points by 2.5
For Normal Defenses (PD and ED; Don't Divide)
If Heroic, Divide corresponding Active Points by 10
If Superheroic, Divide corresponding Active Points by 5
HP = BODY (Geometric Chart)

[The Main Man]

Here Are Some Attributes To Characteristics Conversions I have thus far figured out
IQ = INT (Direct Conversion; IOW, it is directly numerically equivalent)
ME = EGO (3 x (Save vs. Psionics +3)) Note: Breaks Down At Lower Levels
PS = STR (Compare Lifting Maximums)
PP = DEX (3 x (Strike/Parry/Dodge Bonus +3)) Note: Breaks Down At Lower Levels
PB = COM (Direct Conversion)
Spd = Running (Compare MPH/KPH)

HP = BODY (Geometric Chart to Corresponding Active Points)

SDC = STUN, Normal PD, Normal ED
First check SDC total against the Geometric Chart
For STUN, divide by 2.5 if Superheroic, or by 5 if Heroic
For Normal PD and ED respectively, divide by 5 if Superheroic, or by 10 if Heroic

I'm still somewhat confused about how to properly convert MA and PE

[NuSoardGraphite]

Here Are Some Attributes To Characteristics Conversions I have thus far figured out

Okay, lets see it.



IQ = INT (Direct Conversion; IOW, it is directly numerically equivalent)

Yeah, pretty much how I'd deal with it as well.


ME = EGO (3 x (Save vs. Psionics +3)) Note: Breaks Down At Lower Levels

Actually, I'd transfer ME straight to EGO and translate bonuses to save vs Psionics as Mental Defense. (not counting the natural Psionics save bonus generated by M.E.)


PS = STR (Compare Lifting Maximums)

I'd do the same, as I listed above.


PP = DEX (3 x (Strike/Parry/Dodge Bonus +3)) Note: Breaks Down At Lower Levels

Again, like ME to EGO, I'd translate PP straight over to DEX and covert bonuses to Strike/Dodge to skill levels, not counting the natural bonuses derived from P.P.


PB = COM (Direct Conversion)

Agreed. Its an easy conversion.


Spd = Running (Compare MPH/KPH)

Another easy one. We should probably work on a SPD to Movement conversion chart though.


HP = BODY (Geometric Chart to Corresponding Active Points)

This is pretty much how I'd handle it. Though I'm not sure what you mean by Geometric Chart...







I'm still somewhat confused about how to properly convert MA and PE

I would think M.A. and P.E. would convert pretty straight.

I'd leave derived characteristics out of the equation and let those be adjusted as necessary. The only exception being Spd, which would be based on the characters level of Hand to Hand skill:

HtH/SPD
None/2
Basic/3
Expert/3
Martial Arts/4
Assasin/4

Where a character gets more attacks per round, add one more point of speed. Example Cyberknights and Crazies both get +1 SPD and Juicers get +2 SPD.

[The Main Man]

I guess that I accidentally used my terms from my actual document on conversion.
What I mean is the Geometric Scale.
The Geometric Scale is the corresponding scale of multiplication in accordance to Active Points.
Remember when FReD explains that every increment of 5 Active Points is effectively 2x the last increment?
Basically, when you take, say, 60 Active Points, that is equal to the geometric value of (2^12) = 4096
It's that kind of logic that make Mega-Damage easy to convert.
+35 Active Points --> 2^7 = 128

[The Main Man]

I found a new way to convert damage as well, using the geometric scale.
It's similar to the +35 = x100 formula.

Basically, take the standard effect of the attack, and compare it to the scale.

A full burst from a SAMAS Rail Gun does 1d4x10 MD IIRC, so the standard effect is 2000 SDC damage, which is closest to 2^11 = 55 Active Points.
That means a full round burst from a SAMAS Rail Gun is an RKA 3 1/2 d6

[NuSoardGraphite]

Thats kinda scary man, because thats exactly how much damage I would have the SAMAS railgun do. (with some AP and Autofire of course)

Very nice.

[The Main Man]

A Glitterboy has 700 MDC on main body
700 MDC = 70000 SDC = 2^26 = 67,108,864
3 Active Points of Armor is able to defend against 5 Active Points of Damage
3/5 Ratio

This is the long, drawn out equation: 26 x 5 = 130 x .6 = 78 Active Points/3 = 26, back where we started.
So Glitterboy armor, without modifiers (Hardened, Focus, etc) is 26 rPD/ 26 rED
This is of course assuming that you are not building it as a vehicle, which it should not be.

[AlHazred]

This is of course assuming that you are not building it as a vehicle, which it should not be.I quite agree. It's similar to the Iron Man reasoning, but in the case of GBs I've seen played, it's even more extreme. One guy wanted to justify sleeping, eating, doing everything in his armor and never taking it off. Granted, in the latest iteration of the rules at least, there's some reason given for the GM to say "No" but I've seen it allowed in many cases...

[The Main Man]

For me, I'm probably going to make Rifts HERO a Very Powerful Heroic campaign that verges on the Superheroic, so IOW, I decide how Glitterboys and other toys are built.

But, for Robot Vehicles, and Vehicles in General, I would do as I stated in an earlier post for determining BODY and DEF.

For example, since I do not have a Rifts book on hand at the moment, I shall use the Glitterboy on the assumption of it being built as a vehicle.

700 MDC = (70,000 SDC and HP) /2 = 35,000 SDC or HP
Since we have only halved the total, that's only -5 Active Points (if you must know, it is exactly 33,554,432, but let's round)
And because that is only -5 Active Points, that means that a Glitterboy built as a Vehicle would have only 13 DEF, but would have 62 fraggin' BODY! And I must emphasize that we haven't even added the rest of the goodies!

[The Main Man]

It looks like Damage and MDC are pretty much figured out (but reverse convert Dr. Destroyer to Rifts that way and see the results:eek: )

I'm figuring that any form of movement can easily be converted.

Speed = x20 = x Yards in a Minute x 3 = x Feet x 60 = x" in an hour / 5280 = xMPH
MPH x804.5 = x" / 60 = per minute / 5 = per Turn / SPD (I like to just use 2), and then factor out Non-Combat multiples as necessary

So a Spd 20 Character is
20 x 20 = 440 x 3 = 1320 x 60 = 79,200 / 5,280 = 15 mph exactly
15mph x 804.5 = 12,068 (I rounded) / 60 = 201 / 5 = 40 / 2 = 20 = 20", which probably means 10" of movement.

The more that I look into this, the more that Rifts and Palladium actually look puny compared to some of the things that I've seen in HERO System.

[tgrandjean]

...And because that is only -5 Active Points, that means that a Glitterboy built as a Vehicle would have only 13 DEF, but would have 62 fraggin' BODY! And I must emphasize that we haven't even added the rest of the goodies!

... Just pointing out that this makes it an excellent candidate for Damage Reduction...

[NuSoardGraphite]

... Just pointing out that this makes it an excellent candidate for Damage Reduction...

Long, long ago I suggested using Damage Reduction to represent a Glitterboy (and other uber-tough mecha) but a lot of people didn't like the idea.

I love it though and if I wrote up a Glitterboy tomorrow, I would include Damage Reduction in the write-up.

[The Main Man]

For Glitterboys, it does say that they take only half damage from lasers.
I am assuming that they mean more than just weapons with the word 'laser' in them, so I would give them EDR for light based weapons, which usually means lasers anyway, at least.

But for otherwise DR, I would reverse calculate the BODY by the DR rate until I got a viable number.

Taking that 62 BODY into mind, if I gave it 50% DR, that would be (62 / 1.5) = 41, which is still a bit much, so lets go to 75% DR --> 35 BODY, which is a bit better if I went down that route.

[BlackSword]

We've been playing Rifts for the last few months using Hero rules. Its going quite well and the GM did a good job moving the classes into Hero terms. For weapons he just uped the damage so that Megascale is in the range of 6d+ KA attacks. Armor was upped equivantly so that a tank has enough armor that it is not in danger from anything less than a dozen killing dice.

[The Main Man]

New Speed Conversions (i.e. Simplified)

Speed x 0.918 = Active Points of Movement (assuming a SPD of 2)
Ex. Spd 20 x 0.918 = 18.36 = 9" of Movement

MPH x 0.67 = Movement x"
Ex. 20 MPH x 0.67 = 13.4" Movement (assuming a SPD of 2)

[ShinDangaioh]

Are you going to do the 100 megaton nuclear bomb that only has a 50' explosion radius?

[UltraRob]

We've been playing Rifts for the last few months using Hero rules. Its going quite well and the GM did a good job moving the classes into Hero terms. For weapons he just uped the damage so that Megascale is in the range of 6d+ KA attacks. Armor was upped equivantly so that a tank has enough armor that it is not in danger from anything less than a dozen killing dice.

Blacksword, would it be possible to see some numerical examples? I mean, a weapon or two, or maybe the actual numbers on that tank?

Rob

[The Main Man]

Are you going to do the 100 megaton nuclear bomb that only has a 50' explosion radius?
Hell no. It's an Explosion!

[NuSoardGraphite]

I do Mega explosions like that as AE-Radius and Explosion. That way you have a large ground zero, with dimishing damage as you get further away from the center.

[ShinDangaioh]

It was a joke at RIFTS expense ;)

Explosions in RIFTS only have a 50' radius, no matter what is doing the explosion: A stack of dynamite, a 100 megaton nuke, an anti-matter bomb.

[Captain Obvious]

It was a joke at RIFTS expense ;)

Explosions in RIFTS only have a 50' radius, no matter what is doing the explosion: A stack of dynamite, a 100 megaton nuke, an anti-matter bomb.

The sun going supernova..? :rolleyes:

[Warp9]

The sun going supernova..? :rolleyes:

50' radius on a supernova?

In the RIFTS game system: probably "yes."

[BlackSword]

Blacksword, would it be possible to see some numerical examples? I mean, a weapon or two, or maybe the actual numbers on that tank?

Rob
I forgot to ask the GM on our last game, will try to get some info for you.

[The Main Man]

The sun going supernova..? :rolleyes:
*snorting laugh*

[The Main Man]

I think Magic and Psionics should be addressed.

First off, Potential Psychic Energy would probably be an END Reserve.

Inner Strength Points has an unwritten appearance of just being half as potent as PPE, so just take a Psychic's ISP total and halve it to PPE.

I would prefer to compare a PPE total to the Geometric Scale, and then using those corresponding Active Points as a budget between the END and the REC.

Ex. An average beginning Ley Line Walker gets 3d6 x10 +20 +PE (average 9) = 119 --> 2^7 = 128 --> 35 Active Points in an END Reserve.
Some ways to split it up are 300 END and 5 REC, or 50 END, 30 REC, but there are many other ways, as long as it is 35 Active Points, assuming strict conversion.

This brings me to another point: I do not think that there should be any actual Package deals to represent every single Magic OCC or Psychic PCC.
The numerous books make it pretty obvious that much of it is actually up to your imagination.
For example, a Master Psychic is just a character with numerous, powerful Psionic powers, while a Minor one is someone who has a few tricks up their sleeve.
The same goes for Magic OCCs, except maybe a base class that gives the bare necessities of Magic Users, but then all else is variation.

[UltraRob]

Yes, I think pretty much the same. RIFTS more or less amounts to an "anything goes" setting, so why bother to actually duplicate the major packages and OCCs unless you want to use them as NPCs? I can see doing writeups for various characters like Juicers and Cyberknights that are the staples of the setting, and of course you need to whip up versions of equipment and powered armour. But, OCCs and RCCs are probably better served by just making "examples" rather than packages and letting the PCs go nuts with it. After all, if you wanted those packages, you'd just be playing RIFTS itself, right? HERO is there to open things up, not restrict them.

Rob

[tgrandjean]

Just pointing out the no brainer method of converting ISP and PPE: convert your highest draw power into Hero and multiply that by the number of times that you can toss it off in Rifts.
Also, Ley lines act as an Aid to all Magic and Psionic base powers: 1d6 for weak lines up to ~4-6d6 for a Dimensional Rift w/ a coresponding environmental penalty to Mystic and Psionic senses.

[The Main Man]

One of my longstanding conundrums has been Cybernetics and Bionics (C&B).
Right now, I have decided to treat C&B as the thin line between Equipment and Powers, so they cost half in Money, half in Character Points.
But with my "anything goes" approach, what about new C&B installations?
I think that this would take some extra thought on a GM's part to create Cyber-Docs (if there are any in town) with specific ranges of budget and ability, and that dictates what they can make, giving them not only a mechanic-like feel, but also engineer extraordinaire; Techno-Wizards also would fall into this same mold.

[UltraRob]

I actually have to say that I think it's better, and more HERO, to have the Bionics&Cybernetics paid for with full points, not half. during character creation. In the end, they're just a gimmick to give you Superpowers anyways, and get the price break as foci, so why not just let them be paid for normally? After character creation, you have the usual HERO conundrum of whether to make them pay points or money for development. I'd be inclined to let the ones bought after character creation be counted as equipment and not bother with points for them unless there was something special about them. (ie A new bionic hand costs no points, just money, a bionic technowizard hand with a shield spell might costs points and money if I was running it.)

As for the technowizard stuff, since they're investing their energy into building things I think it's more reasonable to require the cost in points (for character spirit) and money (for parts). Then again, it might depend on the use of the item and how much you want Technowizards to be able to pump out items of power as well.

Rob

[tgrandjean]

Actually concerning Cybernetics and Bionics, they won't actually be recieving much of a point break: neither really qualify as a focus; they cannot be removed or lost easily. They are however, restrainable.

Re: Cyberdocs, Technowizards, and Mechanics etc: I'm inclined to let them buy their created gear via both points (built with Independent) and money. Part of the booty (so to speak) that they can aquire as they adventure includes points vested into the loot. Technology for the Mechanics, Docs, etc, and Crystals, Rare Metals, and Spell Type Foci items for the Magic using chaps.

[The Main Man]

Good call on the Independent (-2) Limitation on Cybernetics and Bionics.
I think that I will try that out.

[The Main Man]

Oops, I made a mistake, you meant gadgets and the like.
Anyway, I made another decision: eliminate Package Deals, and just have the players look at the OCCs so they get a good idea of how to fit into the setting.

[shadow_walker]

*snorting laugh*

Ditto

[The Main Man]

So by extension, what my idea (which I imagine by some posts has already been used) is meant to mean, is that a character could be a Crazy, but only have the physical enhancements, or only the sensory enhancements, or only the mental powers, etc. Not every Full Bionic Conversion is going to be the same, Magic is taught differently but to the same effect as we are all taught normal knowledge, and so on and so forth.

[The Main Man]

I got the Game Master's Guide, which is quite useful for converting weapons, armor, vehicles, and is generally good as a reference to other books.

[The Main Man]

For the longest time, there has been an inherent (+1/4) chink in the conversion armor.

In Rifts, Mega-Damage is frequently referred to as giving a guy in a suit and pistol the capability to do the damage that tanks today do, or more, but with the current scale that I use this just isn't possible.

Take for instance the Glitter Boy. Main Body 770 MDC, Boom Gun does 3d6x10 MDC (Standard Effect: 90 MDC)

Under my current conversion method, just figure the MDC as SDC (77,000 SDC; 9000 SDC), and find it's nearest corresponding place on the Active Point Geometric Scale (80 Active Points; 65 Active Points).

If you check the HERO System Vehicle Sourcebook and compare these to the Tanks in there, this Glitter Boy doesn't stand much of a chance, on average, against even the weakest tank.

So, I got to thinking about it, and using simple semantics, let's look at the word Mega, which literally indicates a base quantity x 10^6, or one million.

For conversion purposes, let's pretend that MDC means SDC x 10^6; 1 MDC = 1,000,000 SDC.

It's easier to use logarithmic calculation at this higher end of the scale, but I'll just show the answers.

Let's go back to the Glitter Boy (770 MDC -> 770,000,000 SDC -> 30 DEF and BODY; 90 MDC -> 90,000,000 SDC -> 26 DCs) v Those tanks.

Now if we compare this new result, this Glitter Boy would utterly decimate even the strongest Tank.

Here's a pretty accurate chart of MDC --> DCs/DEF:

MDC DCs/DEF
1 --> 20
2 --> 21
3-5 --> 22
6-11 --> 23
12-23 --> 24
24-47 --> 25
48-94 --> 26
95-189 --> 27
190-378 --> 28
379-756 --> 29
757-1512 --> 30
+1-x2 --> +1

Now this changes a lot, as you can see.
Things like Active Points, Power Levels, Character Costs, etc., and that is my new problem.

[AlHazred]

It's also probably closer to what Mr. Siembieda intended. Personally, I don't like the idea of a GB decimating modern tanks. Were I to do it in Hero, I'd probably tweak the numbers to make a GB roughly equal tanks, or slightly overpower them but with less in the way of backup systems and such. Besides the GB is more mobile, so it probably doesn't need to overpower the tank with firepower in order to stand a chance against it.

[The Main Man]

Perhaps a compromise?
MDC = x10,000
770 MDC = 23 DEF/ 23 BODY
90 MDC = 20 Damage Classes
No slouch either; Tanks stand a better chance, but will still probably lose, and MDC still comes off very powerful.

[AlHazred]

I still have yet to see a GB writeup, too! *hint, hint*

:D

[UltraRob]

I'm about to start a RIFTS campaign using the MEGS system (there are reasons I couldn't use HERO, otherwise I would have) and I tried doing the conversion formula thing but found it just didn't work well. It tended to produce numbers clustered in an oddly small range that just felt weird. So, in the end, I sat down and said "well, assuming "megadamage" just means "really tough" I'm not going to bother to even try to convert it over. Instead I took the laser pistol from the basic book and said "okay, a WILKS pistol should be the equivalent of this because it's the most basic energy weapon from the game" and then said "okay, the most massive weapon in the game is a Boom Gun, which should be able to take out a modern tank in one good hit, so how much would that be?" and figured it out. That became my range for weapon and armour damage, and I went from there. Everything else slid neatly into place.

I guess my point is, if you enjoy conversion formulas, go nuts, but in the end I think it's better to make a conversion scale and place things accordingly as a way of keeping balance.

Rob

[Rifter]

I guess my point is, if you enjoy conversion formulas, go nuts, but in the end I think it's better to make a conversion scale and place things accordingly as a way of keeping balance.
Rob

Do you have a conversion scale for Rifts and can you show it?
I try to convert Rifts to Hero System to, but as I'm a starter in the Hero System, I realy appreciate any conversion hints :) .

[Almafeta]

I still have yet to see a GB writeup, too! *hint, hint*

:D

Here's the one I used a year or so ago:

Glitter-Boy (89 points)
Package Skills (27 points). Combat Driving (Base+1, 5 points), Demolitions (Base+2, 7 points); EF: Weapons (1 point), Electronics (Base+1, 5 points); Navigation (Base, 2 points), Radio (Base+1, 3 points), TF: Glitter Boy Environmental Armor (1 point), WF: Energy Pistol, Energy Rifle, Rail Guns (3 point).
Nickname of Glitter Boy (Frequently, Minor, Not All Cultures, -5 points)
Glitter Boy Environmental Armor (62 points). (STR 35; BODY 50 (35 points); -2 DCV (5 points); -5" KB; DEF 24 (66 points); DEX 8 (-6); NCM Movement Multiplier *4 (5 points); Leap 24m (24 points); and Suit Powers (189 points).)
Laser-resistant coating (Suit power, 20 points). Energy reduction 50% (30 Active Points); Only Works Against Lasers (-1/2).
Boom Gun (Suit power, 120 points). RKA 8d6 (120 points) with Charges (100 shots in 40-round drums, 15 minutes to change a drum; +1/4) (150 Active Points); Gestures (Must put pylons down taking three rounds or else take 6" knockback when firing, -1/4).
Sonic Boom (Suit Power, 31 points) Flash Hearing Group 6d6 (30 points) with Megascale (80m radius, +1/4) (38 points); Linked (Boom Gun, -1/4).
Thermo-Image/UV (Suit Power, 8 points)
+1 Initiative (Suit Power, 2 points). DEX +1 (3 active points); Only To Act First In Phase (-1).
+2 to Breakfall (Suit Power, 4 points).
+2 to Hit With Boom Gun (Suit Power, 4 points)
Shiny (Suit Power, Concealable, Major, -15 points)

[The Main Man]

The reason that I search for a good conversion method is so that I can whip out a new character or piece of equipment with minimal time.
Between college and work, I can get busy, and not in the carnal way.

So let's take three different looks at a Wilk's Laser Pistol.
All three methods that I have mentioned could be dubbed as follows:
1. Low-Powered Rifts (MDC = SDC x100) --> 1d6 -> 3 MDC -> 300 SDC -> 8 DCs

2. Mid-Powered Rifts (MDC = SDC x10,000) --> 1d6 -> 3 MDC -> 30,000 SDC -> 15 DCs

3. High Powered Rifts (MDC = SDC x1,000,000) --> 1d6 -> 3 MDC -> 3,000,000 SDC -> 22 DCs

[AlHazred]

Here's the one I used a year or so ago:Very nice! I note your willingness to put it here, when I'm pretty sure you've refused to do so on RPG.net. Pretty clever! :D

I like it, though I note that you seem to have included some skills of your own devising. "Radio (Base+1, 3 points)" would seem to be shorthand for "Systems Operations: Radio" at the same cost, but what is "EF: Weapons (1 point)"?

[AlHazred]

The reason that I search for a good conversion method is so that I can whip out a new character or piece of equipment with minimal time. Between college and work, I can get busy, and not in the carnal way.Been there, done that. From experience, let me tell you that no matter how good a conversion is, you always find places where you need to tweak the results. It's as it should be, I think - a GM should always inflict encounters on his players with full knowledge of the results, knowledge that can best be gained by checking over every stat. My advice: recruit Board members to do some of the dirty work. Splitting up tasks would seem to be a good way to go about it, as the background is rich enough for many fans to find independent areas of work that they each enjoy.


So let's take three different looks at a Wilk's Laser Pistol.
All three methods that I have mentioned could be dubbed as follows:
1. Low-Powered Rifts (MDC = SDC x100) --> 1d6 -> 3 MDC -> 300 SDC -> 8 DCs

2. Mid-Powered Rifts (MDC = SDC x10,000) --> 1d6 -> 3 MDC -> 30,000 SDC -> 15 DCs

3. High Powered Rifts (MDC = SDC x1,000,000) --> 1d6 -> 3 MDC -> 3,000,000 SDC -> 22 DCsSee, now, at the High Powered end, I think RIFTS characters could conceivably only be challenged by Epic-level D&D characters and by Exalted characters (both also converted to Hero, of course).

[Gonoan]

Wow it was nice to find this forum.
We have been playing Rifts since it came out and have house ruled the system to death. Last week we quit paying it because no matter how much you modify the rules you still end up with Palladiums bad rule base. Love the system Hate the rules. (and all the cut and paste in their books)
I have no exposure to hero system and am willing to give it a shot. Anything can be better than what we got now. What hero system books should I be purchasing in order to help with this conversion?

[Almafeta]

I have no exposure to hero system and am willing to give it a shot. Anything can be better than what we got now. What hero system books should I be purchasing in order to help with this conversion?

Definately Sidekick (http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=4370&) ($7).

Since it's a bit barebones, you'll want to look here (http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23298) to see what conversions have already been done.

[Almafeta]

Very nice! I note your willingness to put it here, when I'm pretty sure you've refused to do so on RPG.net. Pretty clever! :D

I like it, though I note that you seem to have included some skills of your own devising. "Radio (Base+1, 3 points)" would seem to be shorthand for "Systems Operations: Radio" at the same cost, but what is "EF: Weapons (1 point)"?

Actually, I copied and pasted this right from the RPGnet thread, which you can find linked to in the "Other RPGs converted to HERO system" thread. (I had also made an 80% complete conversion to BESM d20 -- only had mecha and spells left -- but that got pulled...)

"EF" is an "Engineering Familiarity," a takeoff on WFs and TFs. Because the RIFTS setting has so many different technologies (many of which do the same things, but in different ways), and the balkanization of civilization is an important part of the backdrop, I fudged rules for it. You're at -3 to skill to anything but the most banal Electronics (etc.) rolls if you don't have the right EF.

[ghost-angel]

Wow it was nice to find this forum.
We have been playing Rifts since it came out and have house ruled the system to death. Last week we quit paying it because no matter how much you modify the rules you still end up with Palladiums bad rule base. Love the system Hate the rules. (and all the cut and paste in their books)
I have no exposure to hero system and am willing to give it a shot. Anything can be better than what we got now. What hero system books should I be purchasing in order to help with this conversion?
The main rulebook will be a big help if you want to jump in with conversions.

Also, since it can take a while to fully grok the nuances of the Hero Rules never be afraid to ask the boards how to simulate something. We're really good about being helpful.

[UltraRob]

I have no exposure to hero system and am willing to give it a shot. Anything can be better than what we got now. What hero system books should I be purchasing in order to help with this conversion?

Well, realistically, you just need the basic HERO 5th Edition core rulesbook and you're good to go. As anyone here will tell you, that book contains everything you really need to game using HERO. If you want to have some premade stuff to just whip out, then for RIFTS you probably want Dark Champions (for more guns and equipment rules). Beyond that it depends totally on the type of RIFTS game you prefer to play, I know some guys who play it with a major tech orientation (basically as a weird Sci-Fi setting) and they'd probably benefit from Star Hero, or The Ultimate Vehicle, but find Fantasy Hero useless. Others play it more Fantasy Style, and they'd go the other way, with The Grimoire and Fantasy Hero being of more use to them.

I guess if I had to pick my own books to use to run RIFTS HERO they'd be:
The Core Book
The Ultimate Martial Artist (to me, the most useful HERO product besides the Core Book)
Dark Champions
The Ultimate Vehicle

That's about it, but as I said, you really only need the core book.

And if you're using Main Man's conversion points, I'd suggest the Wilks does 8 Damage Classes, and go up from there, probably maxing out at 26 or so Damage Classes for a Boom Gun.

Rob

[Gonoan]

Got the core rule book and am reading it over now. Wow do they have lots of rules. Keep them Rifts to Hero's rules coming and I'll start posting once I'm finished this book.

Gonoan

[Oruncrest]

I still have yet to see a GB writeup, too! *hint, hint*

:D

Well, If you're looking for that sort of thing...



Glitter Boy
Val Char Cost Notes
50 STR 35 19-; 1.2t, 10D6
26 BODY 30
1.25 Size 10 -2 KB
23 DEF 57
20 DEX 30 13-; CV: 7/6
4 SPD 10 3, 6, 9, 12

Movement
Running: 20�/ 40�ncm
Leaping: 15�h/ 8�v


Cost Powers E/-
28 +14� Running
5 Jet Boosters: +5� leaping, no NCM (-¼)
8 Jet Hovering: 5� Flight Only to allow the GB to hover 4� off the ground (-½)
27 0 END on STR 0
33 Stabilization Systems: 25pts Knockback Defense; Non-persistent, -¼, Cannot use any movement powers while Stabilization Systems are active, -¼
13 Life Support Systems: LS: Self Contained, Temperature, Radiation, Pressure, Disease; IIF
1 Nutrition Unit: LS: Diminished Eating, 1 Week
15 Reflective Surface: ½ Resistant Energy Damage Reduction, only vs. Lasers, -1
75 Mega-Damage Combat 5D6 HKA, 0 END; STR Doesn’t Add 0

RG-14 Rapid Acceleration Electromagnetic Rail Gun, AKA the ‘Boom Gun’:
92 The Gun: 7D6 RKA, 100 Charges, OAF, Gun will not fire unless the Stabilization System has been activated, -¼
29 The Boom: 7½D6 Hearing Flash in a 30� Radius, 0 END; OAF, Linked to go off with ‘the Gun’ (-¾), no range 0

Sensor Systems:
5 Thermo-Imager: Infrared Perception
17 IR & UV Optics: Detect Infrared and/or Ultraviolet Perception powers at range 15-
4 Laser Targeting: +2 w/Boom Gun
30 Optics Protection: 30 pts Flash Defense Sight
30 Sound Suppression Systems: 30 pts Flash defense Hearing
341 Total Powers Cost
172 Total Characteristics Cost
584 Total Vehicle Cost

100 +Disadvantages
15 Distinctive Features: Glitter Boy, (Unconcealable, Noticed)
10 Hunted by the CS (except for Free Quebec) (mp, nci, destroy) 8-
5 Hunted by various bandits & thugs (lp, steal) 8-
5 Reputation: Laughs off Lasers 8-
450 Pilot Payment
600 Total Disadvantages


I'll try to write up my RIFTS ->HERO conversion notes and present them later this week.

[The Main Man]

I like the MDC Combat power you gave that Glitter Boy. Note taken.

Most of the rest of the write-up would have been pretty similar had I done it, except for the Strength, which if literally converted would come to about 23-25; half what you gave, which I prefer.

Palladium Strength is incoherent if you ask me.

The other day I was discussing Rifts HERO with my friends, and they are all hyped for it, but now that I think about it, I cannot decide on character costs and limits.

[AlHazred]

We started out at 150 points, and after several years of gaming have reached the 250-point level. Now that enough points are available, new players got to make more costly characters (a Cyberknight and a Juicer). I expect, if the campaign lasts another several years, we'll see new players coming in as Full Borgs and Young Dragons.

By that point, my non-magical character might actually be effective.

:D

[UltraRob]

150 base + 100 disad points should produce some good low-level RIFTS characters of different kinds. Assuming you're giving them equipment for free, except for special equipment and maybe borg stuff.

Rob

[The Main Man]

I was thinking about that level.

Active Points should of course be level with Damage Classes, which means that Magic Users and Psionics are going to have a hell of a time, good and bad.

I am also thinking of using something like a Resource Pool for beginning Equipment, but not for ongoing of course.

[AlHazred]

Resource pool rules would work well for RIFTS, I think. Be more interesting to keep track of your available equipment, as well - you have all sorts of weird technology/magic/technomagic floating around.

Borgs should definitely have to pay points for their Borg stuff. If you can't remove it without killing or severely maiming the character, it's not a Focus. However, there's enough cyber-damper stuff floating around that they maybe should get -1/2 limitation on cyberware.

[BlackSword]

Our Rifts campaign that just ended started with 250 point characters (150 + 100). We got transported to someplace in space and went up to 300 points characters (+50 xp). At 250 point characters we were pretty deadly, and pretty effective. Equipment was a mish-mash. We did pay some character points, but we also received some equipment. Equipment that was not paid for in character points was pretty much considered temporary. For instance, my pistol was paid for in character points, I had it the entire campaign, the rifles we got were given to us, and by the end of the campaign we only had one of those rifles in the group.

[The Main Man]

Yeah, Cybernetics/Bionics won't be Foci, and neither will M.O.M. enhancements nor Juicer treatments; all will be Restrainable (-1/4).

I think if I can carefully guide my PCs, 250 Points should be able to squeeze in the kinds of DCs/DEF that I am giving them. Power Frameworks will be abundant.

[NuSoardGraphite]

I think 250pts is reasonable for a "standard" RIFTS style campaign. That gives characters more than enough points to emulate such uber-characters as Crazies, Juicers, Dragon-hatchlings, Cyberknights and Atlantean Undead-Slayers. It also allows for the creation of less powerful, but hyper-skilled character types such as the Wilderness Scout or Cyber-heavy characters like the Full Coversion Borg or Headhunter.

[NuSoardGraphite]

I thing Cybernetics are best handled using the Restrainable limitation and various uses of the Side Effects limitation depending on the Cybernetic augmentation in question. Side Effects could be used to give Disadvantages related to the cybernetic enhancement in question. Some examples include:
Distinctive feature for most cybernetic limbs and some cyber eye and cyber ear mods. (esp Cyber-eyes that glow in the dark, or have an active light source)
Dependance: for some limbs or mods that require frequent maintenance or they breakdown and cease to function.
Physical Limitation: Most especially for cyberlimbs that reduce sense of touch (at least -3 to touch-based PER rolls, which I think would qualify for "All the Time" and "Greatly" for a total of 20pts worth of Side Effect)

BIONIC RECONSTRUCTION:
Partial:
In this case, the characters limbs have been completely replaced and the torso has been outfitted with reinforced joints and ribcage. I would add the following bonuses to a characters natural Characteristics:
STR: +10 (No figured/Restrainable) 7pts
DEX: +5 (No figured/Restrainable) 10pts
CON: +10 (No figured) 16pts
BOD: +10 (No figured) 16pts
PRE: +5 (No figured) 4pts
SPD: +1 (Restrainable) 8pts
STN: +25 (Restrainable) 20pts
RUN: +10" (Restrainable) 16pts
114pts

Armor: 7pd/7ed (21) Limited Coverage (locations 6-9, 13-18) -3/4. 12pts

Disadvantages:
Physical Limitation: Limited Sense of Touch-Greatly Impairing, Frequently (-3 to all touch PER rolls) 15pts
Physical Limitation: Very heavy (weighs 200kg) Infrequently, slightly 5pts
Distinctive Feature: Concealabl, always noticed and causes a major reaction. 15pts


Full:

For full Bionic Reconstruction, the following bonuses should apply:

STR: +20 (No figured/Restrainable) 13pts
DEX: +10 (No figured/Restrainable) 20pts
CON: +20 (No figured) 32pts
BOD: +15 (No figured) 24pts
PRE: +10 (No figured) 8pts
SPD: +2 (Restrainable) 16pts
STN: +50 (Restrainable) 40pts
Run: +15" (Restrainable) 24pts
177pts

Armor: 10pt/10ed (30) Full Coverage (-0)

Disadvantages:

Physical Limitation: Limited Sense of Touch: Greatly, Frequently (-3 to Touch based PER rolls) 15pts
Physical Limitation: Extremely large and heavy: 2.5m tall, 400kg. Slightly impairing, Frequently. 10pts
Distinctive Feature: Not concealable, Major reaction. 25pts.

The extra STR, DEX, SPD and Running are all pretty self explainatory. The extra CON is there to make it more difficult to put the Borg into a Stunned status. The extra Body obviously represents metal replacing the Borg's flesh and enhanced mass. The additional PRE indicates the Borg's frightening appearance as does the Distinctive feature disad. The extra Stun represents the Borg's ability to take loads of punishment. There could probably be made a very good argument for giving the Borg extra End and REC to represent the Borg's ability to keep going long after a meat-bag would get tired. There should also be a Physical Limitation that represents the fact that the Borg's extra Body doesn't heal naturally (via REC) but must be repaired at a facility. (for a combat borg that sees a lot of combat, this would be Frequent and Greatly impairing)

[Warp9]

Nice work on the Borgs above.

My only comment is:

I am operating on the premise that we have no specific interest in keeping the function of the former game system intact, instead we are converting the actual concepts behind the world(s).

If memory serves, the full conversion borgs were described as "hundreds of times faster and stronger than normal humans." (I wish I could give you a page number, but I don't even know where my RIFTS book is right now. Perhaps somebody who has the book around could find the quote and/or correct me if I am wrong about this idea)

Obviously Borgs did not play out "hundreds of times faster and stronger than normal humans" in the totally inferior game system. But they could be made that way in the HERO system. The STR part would be easy, 50 STR would equate to 256 X lifting power of a normal person.

The speed part would be harder. And, if implemented, it would probably result in Borgs which could break the sound barrier, and that concept seems kind of strange to me.

[The Main Man]

For me, due to my remaining steadfast with MDC conversion, I have decided to actually go with 300 Points (200 Base + 100 Disadvantages).

[NuSoardGraphite]

Nice work on the Borgs above.

Thanks!


If memory serves, the full conversion borgs were described as "hundreds of times faster and stronger than normal humans." (I wish I could give you a page number, but I don't even know where my RIFTS book is right now. Perhaps somebody who has the book around could find the quote and/or correct me if I am wrong about this idea)

Yes, in the description of a Full Bionic Conversion, it mentions that after conversion a full borg is 100 times stronger, faster and more durable than before.


Obviously Borgs did not play out "hundreds of times faster and stronger than normal humans" in the totally inferior game system. But they could be made that way in the HERO system. The STR part would be easy, 50 STR would equate to 256 X lifting power of a normal person.

Yeah to be more than 100 times stronger is a +35 STR (x125)


The speed part would be harder. And, if implemented, it would probably result in Borgs which could break the sound barrier, and that concept seems kind of strange to me.

Well, a normal human in Hero terms is SPD 2 with 6" of running. At full non combat this allows them to travel at 24" per turn or 14.4kph (6.5mph)

100 times that would be 650mph (very nearly mach-1!) which breaks down to SPD 6 and 50" (x4ncbt) Although in the RIFTS book, a full conversion borg could run a maximum of 192kph, which is far more reasonable.

I much prefer to take the "original concept" and apply it to Hero in a more balanced manner. The concept of a full conversion borg: A big scary guy who is tough to put down and strong enough to carry some really big guns.

Done and done!

[UltraRob]

If memory serves, the full conversion borgs were described as "hundreds of times faster and stronger than normal humans." [SIZE="1"]
Obviously Borgs did not play out "hundreds of times faster and stronger than normal humans" in the totally inferior game system. But they could be made that way in the HERO system. The STR part would be easy, 50 STR would equate to 256 X lifting power of a normal person.

The speed part would be harder. And, if implemented, it would probably result in Borgs which could break the sound barrier, and that concept seems kind of strange to me.

I tend to look at when writers say "hundreds of times stronger and faster" in a game as pretty much them trying to say "really really strong/fast" in a hyperbolic manner. They don't really mean they're hundreds of times, if they did then the Borg would be able to run a lot fast in their real stats. (In terms of reflexes they would be the godninjamasters of the game, making Juicers look like snails.) He's just trying to say it's fast and strong in a cool way, so don't worry on it too much, just go with how they feel in the other game. They're big scary tough guys, as Nu Soard says, not really meant to be all that fast.

Rob

[Warp9]

I tend to look at when writers say "hundreds of times stronger and faster" in a game as pretty much them trying to say "really really strong/fast" in a hyperbolic manner. They don't really mean they're hundreds of times, if they did then the Borg would be able to run a lot fast in their real stats.

I've run into that same issue before with other aspects of RIFTS. I remember one GM trying to tell me that the descriptions of the Juciers were supposed to be mostly hyperbole.

But why should a game like RIFTS have to resort to exaggeration to sound cool? Is there the implied suggestion here that nobody would be interested in playing a game where characters were really "hundreds of times stronger and faster" than a normal person?

Why not have a game where the characters match up to the hyperbole? :celebrate




(In terms of reflexes they would be the godninjamasters of the game, making Juicers look like snails.)

Spiderman is not equal to Quicksilver, and Quicksilver is not equal to Spiderman. Sure, many characters can run more quickly than the web-slinger, but IMO few are actually more agile. I'd apply that same observation to Juicers and Borgs.

I'd let Borgs do tremendous running and jumping (far more than Juicers), but Juicers would still be the kings of DEX! :king:




He's just trying to say it's fast and strong in a cool way, so don't worry on it too much, just go with how they feel in the other game. They're big scary tough guys, as Nu Soard says, not really meant to be all that fast.

By the term: "how they feel in the other game," Are we talking about how Borgs are actually described, or how they play out in the Palladium system? Because I have no interest in preserving anything about the specific feel of the other game system.

Palladium :sick:

Make Borgs how they were supposed to be----HERO style! :rockon:

[The Main Man]

One of my players' ideas for a character raised a question to me: How far can one deviate from Rifts before it stops actually feeling like Rifts?

Now before you make the obvious comments on this character, hear me out, and answer the actual question.

His character is supposed to be a 'Borg, but it's not 8' tall, more like 6', but it still is a full conversion. To be honest, he's basing this off of Bryan Fury from Tekken series, but I let him get away with it because of RPG fantasy fulfillment.

The question is whether or not he should be able to do this, or if 'Borgs should be more uniform.

On a related note, but I found this character more intriguing, is a character playing a lost Green Mana wizard from Magic: The Gathering that accidentally rifted to this world and is effectively marooned as he gets used to the inherent magic.

[AlHazred]

Distinctive Feature: Concealabl, always noticed and causes a major reaction. 15ptsI would consider giving all Borgs and cybernetically-enhanced/modified individuals Not Concealable Distinctive Features that require Special Senses to Detect, to represent the fact that these biological organisms have metal parts - easy to find with a metal detector. Whether or not it's obvious to casual observation would be another DF, maybe. I mean, there're a whole lot of crazy-looking guys in Rifts.

[UltraRob]

I've run into that same issue before with other aspects of RIFTS. I remember one GM trying to tell me that the descriptions of the Juciers were supposed to be mostly hyperbole.

Well, you've just met someone else who agreeds with him. :)



But why should a game like RIFTS have to resort to exaggeration to sound cool? Is there the implied suggestion here that nobody would be interested in playing a game where characters were really "hundreds of times stronger and faster" than a normal person?


Because when it was written Kevin S. was trying really hard to emphasize the over the top coolness of his new game. It was supposed to be a very different take on fantasy/sci-fi gaming, and largely was a new direction for mainstream gaming in fact. It's not a matter of "why would he need to" so much as the in-game hype he was trying to generate. RIFTS was about selling his audience a new kind of power fantasy, and it worked.



Why not have a game where the characters match up to the hyperbole? :celebrate


This here is the HERO board, I might debate the point with you, but I will never tell you how to run your game. :thumbup: If it's cool for you, go for it!
Just won't be how I do it.



I'd let Borgs do tremendous running and jumping (far more than Juicers), but Juicers would still be the kings of DEX! :king:

Even if you just convert their speed and jumping distance from the game (not stats, but given numbers), and do a rough converstion of Dex, they will be pretty impressive. Maybe not Hundreds of times, but up there. So them being able to run like the wind is perfectly reasonable.



By the term: "how they feel in the other game," Are we talking about how Borgs are actually described, or how they play out in the Palladium system? Because I have no interest in preserving anything about the specific feel of the other game system.


Well, the thing that comes to mind is that how they play out has affected a lot of the stuff written since that original RIFTS book was penned an age ago. People who have played RIFTS have an idea of how a Borg should be (myself included), we know where it feels right in the ecology of the game. Yes, some of this is from the Palladium rules, but it's also how the concept of the Palladium Borg has evolved. The rules did affect the ideas that grew out of the game, even if they didn't effect the setting.



Palladium :sick:

Make Borgs how they were supposed to be----HERO style! :rockon:

Again, you'll get no fight from me on this. :) Palladium is a deeply flawed system, and I think HERO suits the setting much better than it does.

And, to go into the other poster's question. I'd say that when you switch to the HERO system the better way to look at the RIFTS RCCs and OCCs is that those are common "types" of characters in the setting. But, beyond viewing them as common types found wandering around, they should be ignored in favor of whatever the players want to play. RIFTS is a post-apoc world gone truely mad, and beyond a few names of people and places that's the only element I'd say you need to keep to make it RIFTS.

Rob

[The Main Man]

Yeah, I think that I can do that.

I also agree that there are heavy flaws in the Palladium System, but something about SDC/MDC seems slightly integral to the characters, but luckily I only have to convert Equipment, not Characters.

I'm also thinking about having an effectiveness cap; something like Trebuchet's 20>DCs + SPD, but probably raised to something like 25 or 30.

[Warp9]

One of my players' ideas for a character raised a question to me: How far can one deviate from Rifts before it stops actually feeling like Rifts?

Now before you make the obvious comments on this character, hear me out, and answer the actual question.

His character is supposed to be a 'Borg, but it's not 8' tall, more like 6', but it still is a full conversion. To be honest, he's basing this off of Bryan Fury from Tekken series, but I let him get away with it because of RPG fantasy fulfillment.

The question is whether or not he should be able to do this, or if 'Borgs should be more uniform.

On a related note, but I found this character more intriguing, is a character playing a lost Green Mana wizard from Magic: The Gathering that accidentally rifted to this world and is effectively marooned as he gets used to the inherent magic.
I'd go for the general setting and not worry too much about the specifics, but that is just my opinion.

And I like the Green Mana Wizard concept! :thumbup:

[Warp9]

Even if you just convert their speed and jumping distance from the game (not stats, but given numbers), and do a rough converstion of Dex, they will be pretty impressive. Maybe not Hundreds of times, but up there. So them being able to run like the wind is perfectly reasonable.

Well, the thing that comes to mind is that how they play out has affected a lot of the stuff written since that original RIFTS book was penned an age ago. People who have played RIFTS have an idea of how a Borg should be (myself included), we know where it feels right in the ecology of the game. Yes, some of this is from the Palladium rules, but it's also how the concept of the Palladium Borg has evolved. The rules did affect the ideas that grew out of the game, even if they didn't effect the setting.

I can understand where you are coming from on this issue. Getting the feel of a game world for conversion can mean many things to many people, and the experiences during game play will probably have an impact of the "feel" of the setting for most people.


The main issue I'm still curious about relates to the concepts below (about the "hype" stuff) :



Well, you've just met someone else who agreeds with him. :)

Because when it was written Kevin S. was trying really hard to emphasize the over the top coolness of his new game. It was supposed to be a very different take on fantasy/sci-fi gaming, and largely was a new direction for mainstream gaming in fact. It's not a matter of "why would he need to" so much as the in-game hype he was trying to generate. RIFTS was about selling his audience a new kind of power fantasy, and it worked.

This here is the HERO board, I might debate the point with you, but I will never tell you how to run your game. :thumbup: If it's cool for you, go for it!
Just won't be how I do it.

I definitly do not presume to tell you how to run your game either. You know what works best for you! :)

But I am still curious about the idea of trying to make a game where the hype does not match the play experience; I just don't understand it.

It seems paradoxical to me that these ideas mentioned as "hype" sound so cool, and yet there is no interest in having them play out in the game.

Going back to part of your quote from above: "RIFTS was about selling his audience a new kind of power fantasy, and it worked." Why not give the gamers the "power fantasy" that was being sold to them?

Again, I am not trying to tell you what you should like, or how to play your game, it is more of a matter of curiousity.

[UltraRob]

But I am still curious about the idea of trying to make a game where the hype does not match the play experience; I just don't understand it.

It seems paradoxical to me that these ideas mentioned as "hype" sound so cool, and yet there is no interest in having them play out in the game.

Oh, they do sound cool...the first few dozen times you hear them. Kevin S. is hardly the first person to trott out a variant of "faster than a speeding bullet, more powerful than a locomotive, able to leap..." to describe his setting's uber-men. The problem becomes, how do you separate his uber-men from the others, who have the same descriptions? ("Who's stronger, the Hulk or Superman, mom?") Hype is nice and all, and I agree, it's cool, but in the end games are about fun, playability and balance (can you tell I'm a HERO GM? :P) not just hype. I have to make this character work, and not just work, but work in relation to the rest of the setting and my PC's. Sure, I can make sure he lives up to some of the hype, and I would (STR 100X that of a normal man? Check!) because it's a pretty easy thing to do in HERO. What I'm not going to do in HERO is give him a super high SPD or DEX just because Kevin let his imagination go a little wild when describing this character. This is why Borgs don't even have hype-matching stats in Palladium, because the author (same guy) never intended them to.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, it's not that I don't want them to live up to the hype, it's that I want them to live up to the hype and be balanced in-game at the same time. It's a matter of compromise required for a game, as opposed to a story. (Then again, it applies to stories too. Superman is "faster than a speeding bullet", but he's almost never written that way in the comics because if they did, there'd be few challenges for him. It's all about compromise.)




Going back to part of your quote from above: "RIFTS was about selling his audience a new kind of power fantasy, and it worked." Why not give the gamers the "power fantasy" that was being sold to them?


Well, I'll tell you the truth, as I mentioned above at one point, I don't run RIFTS HERO, I run DC HEROES:RIFTS, because in that system a character who is "hundreds of times faster than a normal person" is actually pretty average on the character power meter. I found DC simulates Kevin's hype a lot better than HERO does, so I chose to use it instead. My comments above are about compromising with the system you are using, HERO requires more compromises than DC did, so I chose to use DC to give my players their power fantasy. :)

Games are tools, after all, and I found a better tool for the job for me!

Rob

[Rifter]

BIONIC RECONSTRUCTION:
Partial:
In this case, the characters limbs have been completely replaced and the torso has been outfitted with reinforced joints and ribcage. I would add the following bonuses to a characters natural Characteristics:
STR: +10 (No figured/Restrainable) 7pts
DEX: +5 (No figured/Restrainable) 10pts
CON: +10 (No figured) 16pts
BOD: +10 (No figured) 16pts
PRE: +5 (No figured) 4pts
SPD: +1 (Restrainable) 8pts
STN: +25 (Restrainable) 20pts
RUN: +10" (Restrainable) 16pts
114pts

Full:

For full Bionic Reconstruction, the following bonuses should apply:

STR: +20 (No figured/Restrainable) 13pts
DEX: +10 (No figured/Restrainable) 20pts
CON: +20 (No figured) 32pts
BOD: +15 (No figured) 24pts
PRE: +10 (No figured) 8pts
SPD: +2 (Restrainable) 16pts
STN: +50 (Restrainable) 40pts
Run: +15" (Restrainable) 24pts
177pts

Thats a very nice conversion, but what you think about giving the Borg an advantage like "can only be stunned by shots to the head"?

[Warp9]

Oh, they do sound cool...the first few dozen times you hear them. Kevin S. is hardly the first person to trott out a variant of "faster than a speeding bullet, more powerful than a locomotive, able to leap..." to describe his setting's uber-men. The problem becomes, how do you separate his uber-men from the others, who have the same descriptions? ("Who's stronger, the Hulk or Superman, mom?")

This separation issue only becomes a problem if the descriptions are vague.

If a Mega-Juicer is described as 50 times as strong as a normal person, and a Full Conversion Borg is described as 100 times as strong as a normal person, there is no problem.

A game system tends to describe things in more detail than most descriptions in normal language. And there is always an issue of trying to stat out a character correctly. The general description probably doesn't tell you everything you need to know, but IMO the game stats should not contradict the general description.



Hype is nice and all, and I agree, it's cool, but in the end games are about fun, playability and balance (can you tell I'm a HERO GM? :P) not just hype. I have to make this character work, and not just work, but work in relation to the rest of the setting and my PC's. Sure, I can make sure he lives up to some of the hype, and I would (STR 100X that of a normal man? Check!) because it's a pretty easy thing to do in HERO. What I'm not going to do in HERO is give him a super high SPD or DEX just because Kevin let his imagination go a little wild when describing this character. This is why Borgs don't even have hype-matching stats in Palladium, because the author (same guy) never intended them to.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, it's not that I don't want them to live up to the hype, it's that I want them to live up to the hype and be balanced in-game at the same time. It's a matter of compromise required for a game, as opposed to a story. (Then again, it applies to stories too. Superman is "faster than a speeding bullet", but he's almost never written that way in the comics because if they did, there'd be few challenges for him. It's all about compromise.)

Thanks :) this part above really answers the questions I was curious about. It is more of a issue of the practicality of matching the characters to the hype than anything else.

A side note: it is obvious that the borgs in RIFTS don't match up to the descriptions given, but do you know for a fact that they were never intended to? Perhaps it is just an indication of how bad the system is.



Well, I'll tell you the truth, as I mentioned above at one point, I don't run RIFTS HERO, I run DC HEROES:RIFTS, because in that system a character who is "hundreds of times faster than a normal person" is actually pretty average on the character power meter. I found DC simulates Kevin's hype a lot better than HERO does, so I chose to use it instead. My comments above are about compromising with the system you are using, HERO requires more compromises than DC did, so I chose to use DC to give my players their power fantasy. :)

Games are tools, after all, and I found a better tool for the job for me!

DC HEROES is a cool game. :)

It can handle some pretty radical stuff.

That is one of the reasons why I like to argue for a fully exponential version of HERO. I'd like to be sure that my favorite game system can handle the games I want to run. :thumbup:

[Warp9]

Thats a very nice conversion, but what you think about giving the Borg an advantage like "can only be stunned by shots to the head"?
That is an interesting idea; of course it assumes that one is using hit locations.

Also an attack which is powerful enough might be a pretty good shock to the whole body.

But again, interesting idea.

[The Main Man]

Only being Stunned by Shots to the Head could be simulated by additional CON with an Activation Roll pertaining to the Hit Locations 3-5

Bionic Durability: +15 CON (30 Active Points); Activation Roll 14- (Does Not Work At Hit Location 3-5; -1/2) No Figured Characteristics (-1/2), Only To Prevent Against Being Stunned (-1/2) --> 30 x 1 = 30 / 2.5 = 12 Real Points

I'm still mulling over Starting Equipment rules, like maybe I should dictate it according to how effective they become with their equipment, instead of actual point costs.

[The Main Man]

A quick and dirty Juicer write-up

Aid All Physical CHAR (+2) 10d6 (Standard Effect: 30 Character Points; +0), Delayed Return Rate (Fades at 5 per Minute; +1/4), Trigger (mental command (reflex) +1/4); 1 Recoverable Charge (Recovers after last charge wears off; -1 1/2), Self Only (-1/2), Restrainable (-1/4)

Active Points: 350 CP
Real Points: 108 CP

This grants the character, on mental reflex, +30 STR, +10 DEX, +15 CON, +15 BODY, +15 PD, +15 ED, +3 SPD, +15 REC, +60 END, +30 STUN, which makes a pretty accurate Juicer, assuming that the character has not bought up their physical CHAR already.

If you do not swing with the whole Standard Effect/1 Charge thing, then reduce it to 5d6.

[UltraRob]

Wow, that's almost a perfect Juicer! :thumbup: Well done!

Rob

[The Main Man]

I also think adding a Side Effect that takes away some of their lifespan for every use should be added, such as -1 Month per use.

As an example, if the Juicer uses it 100 times in the course of a campaign, that takes away 100 Months of their life. That means they lose (100 / 12) 8 Years, 4 months from their life.

[AlHazred]

I'd go more with a story-oriented limitation; most campaigns won't last long enough for the Juicer to "wear out". Alternatively, I think most GMs would let the PC play the character at least until the big finale. I'd give them a Physical Limitation (5 points - it can't be worth more than Age), and a Vulnerability: 2x Effect from Aging Attacks (Uncommon) for 10 points. Assuming you have things that Age people in your game.

[NuSoardGraphite]

A quick and dirty Juicer write-up

Aid All Physical CHAR (+2) 10d6 (Standard Effect: 30 Character Points; +0), Delayed Return Rate (Fades at 5 per Minute; +1/4), Trigger (mental command (reflex) +1/4); 1 Recoverable Charge (Recovers after last charge wears off; -1 1/2), Self Only (-1/2), Restrainable (-1/4)

Active Points: 350 CP
Real Points: 108 CP

This grants the character, on mental reflex, +30 STR, +10 DEX, +15 CON, +15 BODY, +15 PD, +15 ED, +3 SPD, +15 REC, +60 END, +30 STUN, which makes a pretty accurate Juicer, assuming that the character has not bought up their physical CHAR already.

If you do not swing with the whole Standard Effect/1 Charge thing, then reduce it to 5d6.

Nicely done. Except by my calculation, the Active Point cost on that is 210pt with a real cost of 65pts. The bonuses are just about right (the STR is a little high but no big deal)

[The Main Man]

Trigger (+1/4)
Variable Effect (+2)
Delayed Return Rate (+0.25)
Total Bonus: +2.5

1 Recoverable Charge (only after last use is faded away) (-1.5)
Self Only (-0.5)
Restrainable (-0.25)
Total Penalty: -2.25

Aid 10d6 = 100 Base Points x (1+2.5 = 3.5) = 350 Active Points / (1+2.25 = 3.25) = 107.69... Real Points --> 108 Real Points

Yeah, the Strength part was also iffy to me, but I figured that everything else was rather accurate, so why not?

In actuality, an average Juicer should have 30 STR exactly.
Rifts states that if a Juicer has a minimum Physical Strength of 22.
22 x 40 (PS > 16 is x 40, not x 20) = 880 lbs x 4 (Juicers can lift and carry 4x as much as equivalent STR) = 3520 lbs / 2.2 (convert to kg) = 1600kg --> 30 STR.

Moving on, I also thought about a story-based device for the same reason you pointed out (few PCs actually live out their Juicer's life).

Another question arose when I was designing a Crazy for a Player: should Crazies take the Restrainable (-0.25) Limitation that 'Borgs and Juicers take?

There seems to be no indication on the matter that I have seen.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Trigger (+1/4)
Variable Effect (+2)
Delayed Return Rate (+0.25)
Total Bonus: +2.5

1 Recoverable Charge (only after last use is faded away) (-1.5)
Self Only (-0.5)
Restrainable (-0.25)
Total Penalty: -2.25

Aid 10d6 = 100 Base Points x (1+2.5 = 3.5) = 350 Active Points / (1+2.25 = 3.25) = 107.69... Real Points --> 108 Real Points

When I was at work to day, thinking about this write up, I realised I made a mistake and was taking the old 4th edition cost of Aid into consideration instead of the new 5th edition price! DOH!


Yeah, the Strength part was also iffy to me, but I figured that everything else was rather accurate, so why not?

In actuality, an average Juicer should have 30 STR exactly.
Rifts states that if a Juicer has a minimum Physical Strength of 22.
22 x 40 (PS > 16 is x 40, not x 20) = 880 lbs x 4 (Juicers can lift and carry 4x as much as equivalent STR) = 3520 lbs / 2.2 (convert to kg) = 1600kg --> 30 STR.

If I were going with a Standard Effect Aid write up like the one you came up with, I'd go with 7D6 Standard Effect which would give bonuses of:
+21STR, +7DEX, +10CON, +10BOD, +10PD, +10ED, +2SPD, +10REC, +42END, +21STN and +10" Running.

Now take, Joe Normal (all 10 Characteristics) and convert him into a Juicer and you get:
31STR, 17DEX, 20CON, 20BOD, 12PD, 12ED, 4SPD, 14REC, 62END, 41STN and 16" Running. (which, consequently, allows our Juicer to run at 76.8kph!)



Another question arose when I was designing a Crazy for a Player: should Crazies take the Restrainable (-0.25) Limitation that 'Borgs and Juicers take?

There seems to be no indication on the matter that I have seen.

I think you have to determine if the basic MOM chip is susceptible to the same attacks as regular Bionics and Cybernetics (EMP and whatnot). If so, then yes, I'd say it qualifies for the Restrainable limitation.

[The Main Man]

I was wondering if maybe that was the case. Oh well.

Your scaling of the Juicer power is pretty good.

I'll have to think about the Crazy M.O.M. chip.
I could probably make my decision based on others' interpretations.

Last night I was working on Weapon SFX and how to build them.
I aim to make an apparent advantage and disadvantage to each type.
Here's a rundown as I see it, but I'm open to suggestion and modification.

1. Laser - RKA (vs. ED) - Invisible (Hearing Group); Beam
2. Plasma - RKA (vs. ED) - Possible AOE (Line or Cone)
3. Ion - EB (vs. ED) - No Modifiers
4. Particle Beam - RKA (vs. ED) - Penetrating; Beam
5. Rail Gun - RKA (vs. PD) - Often has Autofire; Beam

I also want to make a Standard E-Clip cost and effect.
Basically, I imagine it as an END Reserve of so much END, so much Limited REC.
An energy device's Charges depend on the END Reserve divided by the END Cost.

[TheQuestionMan]

Rifts - Wikipedia (For the uninitiated)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rifts

[NuSoardGraphite]

Your scaling of the Juicer power is pretty good.

Thank you.


I'll have to think about the Crazy M.O.M. chip.
I could probably make my decision based on others' interpretations.

Absolutely. A conversion project the size of something like RIFTS would require a concerted effort on the part of many contributors to come close to modelling even a fraction of stuff inhabiting that game setting. In fact, I would say that RIFTS is the second most prolific game system/setting in all of the RPG community, second only to D&D/D20 with White Wolf's World of Darkness coming in a close third.


Last night I was working on Weapon SFX and how to build them.
I aim to make an apparent advantage and disadvantage to each type.
Here's a rundown as I see it, but I'm open to suggestion and modification.

Sweet! Lets compare how we do SFX for various weapons...


1. Laser - RKA (vs. ED) - Invisible (Hearing Group); Beam

My Lasers are RKA (ED) - Invisible to Hearing (and Sight for IR-based Lasers) Armor Piercing; Beam, No Knockback.


2. Plasma - RKA (vs. ED) - Possible AOE (Line or Cone)

Plasma: RKA (ED) [Exceptionally high DC compred to similarly sized weapons]; options include AE-1 hex (for Plasma blasts that "splatter") AE-Line (for "Wide Beam" plasma blasts) Explosion (for contained plasma blasts where the magnetic bottle collapses upon impact allowing the plasma to greatly expand at the impact point) +1 Stun Multiplier (Incindiary, lots of pain) Autofire (in rare cases, usually not more than 5 shots but generally around 3)
Limitations include: Limited Range, Bulky OAF (sometimes)


3. Ion - EB (vs. ED) - No Modifiers

Ion: Energy Blast (ED)-Penetrating; Beam


4. Particle Beam - RKA (vs. ED) - Penetrating; Beam

Particle Beam: RKA (ED)- Penetrating, Autofire, +1 StunX; Beam


5. Rail Gun - RKA (vs. PD) - Often has Autofire; Beam

Railgun: RKA (PD) - AP, Autofire, +1 StunX (depending on ammo); OAF-Bulky

[The Main Man]

My Lasers are RKA (ED) - Invisible to Hearing (and Sight for IR-based Lasers) Armor Piercing; Beam, No Knockback.


Good call on IR Lasers. The No Knockback Limitation raises a question. Should there be Knockback or Knockdown in Rifts HERO? I forget if No Knockback affects Knockdown rules (I think that it does).



Plasma: RKA (ED) [Exceptionally high DC compared to similarly sized weapons]; options include AE-1 hex (for Plasma blasts that "splatter") AE-Line (for "Wide Beam" plasma blasts) Explosion (for contained plasma blasts where the magnetic bottle collapses upon impact allowing the plasma to greatly expand at the impact point) +1 Stun Multiplier (Incindiary, lots of pain) Autofire (in rare cases, usually not more than 5 shots but generally around 3)
Limitations include: Limited Range, Bulky OAF (sometimes)


I left out the Focus limitation because it is not inherent to the attack itself and the same goes for Charges.

Now, should a Plasma weapon be built with a selected AOE Advantage, or should it be built as a Multi-power with slots for each effect?

I think that the Multi-Power option sounds better.

Autofire? I don't remember any Plasma weapons with that Advantage.



Ion: Energy Blast (ED)-Penetrating; Beam


Do Ion Beams (I guess there's my red flag for Beam) have the Penetrating effect in Rifts?
I guess that it gives them an extra kick to KO the opponent.
I notice that KOs will occur much more in Rifts HERO than in RIFTS.



Particle Beam: RKA (ED)- Penetrating, Autofire, +1 StunX; Beam


Once again, the Autofire aspect.
I imagine that any Pulse [insert SFX] weapon would have it.

I agree on the +1 STUNx, just like the Plasma.



Railgun: RKA (PD) - AP, Autofire, +1 StunX (depending on ammo); OAF-Bulky

I'm iffy on the AP aspect, but I can dig it.
For example, if converted literally, the SAMAS Rail Gun does 10 Shots, so maybe 1 Level of AP halves the shots to only 5.

By the way, what did you think of the END Reserve --> Charges analogy for E-Clips?

[Captain Obvious]

Good call on IR Lasers. The No Knockback Limitation raises a question. Should there be Knockback or Knockdown in Rifts HERO? I forget if No Knockback affects Knockdown rules (I think that it does).


Rifts is over-the-top enough that Knockback wouldn't be out of place. I would use it personally.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Good call on IR Lasers. The No Knockback Limitation raises a question. Should there be Knockback or Knockdown in Rifts HERO? I forget if No Knockback affects Knockdown rules (I think that it does).

I think RIFTS should be a "middle of the road" game when it comes to Knockback. That means most weapons and attacks should do Knockdown, but heavy weapons and big, strong creatures (like Dragons and Demons etc) should be able to do knockback.

I would assume that most man-portable weapons merely do knockdown. However a weapon with a heavy impact could possibly do knockback, which would be represented with the Does Knockback advantage. Weapons that do neither knockback or knockdown (or doesn't have significant kinetic effect on physical objects, like a Laser) would get the No Knockback limitation.




I left out the Focus limitation because it is not inherent to the attack itself and the same goes for Charges.

I see. Well, pretty much every weapon in RIFTS would get OAF and Independant with very few exceptions. I wouldn't charge points for normal weapons either. (tens of thousands of credits are another matter entirely)


Now, should a Plasma weapon be built with a selected AOE Advantage, or should it be built as a Multi-power with slots for each effect?

I think it should depend on the weapon itself. This is one of the reasons to model RIFTS in HERO rather than using Palladium system. Their weapons have very little variation to them. Some do big damage, others don't, and thats about it. With a game like HERO, you can use advantages and limitations to make individual weapons systems stand out from one another.


I think that the Multi-Power option sounds better.

For some weapons, sure.


Autofire? I don't remember any Plasma weapons with that Advantage.

The one Plasma rifle in the RIFTS basic book has a rate of fire of "Standard", which means it is capable of bursts. This is explained in more detail in the RIFTS Conversion book (I think. Its been a long time)

Any weapon that is only capable of single shots is normaly noted as such, as in the case of the JA-11 Assasin Energy Rifle's laser setting (however the Ion beam setting is capable of Aimed, Burst or Wild fire as Standard)




Do Ion Beams (I guess there's my red flag for Beam) have the Penetrating effect in Rifts?

No. Thats something I add to Ion beams in my own games. Again, to differentiate them from other similar weapons.


I guess that it gives them an extra kick to KO the opponent.

Exactly :)


I notice that KOs will occur much more in Rifts HERO than in RIFTS.

Not necessarily. S.D.C. tended to go away fairly quickly in RIFTS. And it is pretty much moot in most combat situations in RIFTS where MDC weaponry are brought to the table.




Once again, the Autofire aspect.
I imagine that any Pulse [insert SFX] weapon would have it.

Well, I'm not saying that all Ion or Particle Beam or Laser weapons would have autofire...that would be incorrect; however its possible for the weapon to have Autofire depending on its design.

Definately a pulse weapon would have Autofire. Autofire-3 to be precise with bonuses to garuntee extra hits. Of course, one could design Pulse weaponry simply with a higher base DC to represent a longer energy pulse pouring more damage into the target...

The weapons in the basic RIFTS book that I would consider to have Autofire include:

C-10
C-12
Wilk's 447
NG-L5
L-20 Pulse
JA-11 (Ion blast setting)

(and all the Railguns of course)

The rest of the weapons in the book I would consider to be "Semi-Automatic" and capable of use with the Rapid Fire maneuver, but not necesarily capable of Autofire. The one exception is the JA-11's laser setting, which is capable of Single Shot fire only and can't be used with the Rapid Fire or Blaze Away maneuvers.


I agree on the +1 STUNx, just like the Plasma.

Considering that Particle Beam weapons oftentimes have secondary electrical effects to them, +1 Stun multiplier sounds reasonable.



I'm iffy on the AP aspect, but I can dig it.
For example, if converted literally, the SAMAS Rail Gun does 10 Shots, so maybe 1 Level of AP halves the shots to only 5.

The reason I mentioned AP for Railguns is because it uses solid ammo, and thus various rounds can be used with them. There can be Armor Piercing rounds, Squash Head rounds (penetrating!) explosive rounds, High Velocity rounds (extra range and stun multple and possibley +1DC) etc. Railguns should be extremely versatile. Their main limitation is the fact that they take both electrical power and use consumable ammunition, unlike most beam weapons which merely use light, and easy to carry rechargable E-packs.


By the way, what did you think of the END Reserve --> Charges analogy for E-Clips?

I like it. You can create generic E-clips that are swappable between different weapons, but each weapon has a different energy drain depending on how much power they draw....very nice.

[Rifter]

Do you take the characteristics from the Rifts Books for the weapons, like Weight, Rate of Fire, Range, Payload, Bonus to strike, or do you make your own characteristics.

Especially I think about the Range of the weapon, that in Hero System is 5� x Active Points.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Do you take the characteristics from the Rifts Books for the weapons, like Weight, Rate of Fire, Range, Payload, Bonus to strike, or do you make your own characteristics.

Especially I think about the Range of the weapon, that in Hero System is 5� x Active Points.

I take the base weapon and make a Hero equivalent. Of course, since Heros weapon stats are far more detailed than Palladium/Rifts, there are additions you have to make to the Hero versions to make them complete.

I do take the weight of the weapon and the payload straight over, and I try to get the range and accuracy statistics as close as possible, while still being reasonable for the weapon at hand.

For example, I pretty much give all lasers +1 OCV and +2 Rmod. The Wilks laser pistol in the basic RIFTS book has a note that states it gives an additional +2 to strike on an Aimed shot, thus I would give the Wilks laser pistol an additional +1 OCV bonus for a total of +2 to OCV.

Most Rifles I give a +2 Rmod for increased accuracy over pistols or SMG's. Lasers have an inherent bonus of +2 Rmod, so a typical Laser Rifle would have a +4 Rmod.

[Rifter]

I just convert some weapons from Rifts for my Hero Rifts Campaign starting next Saturday.
I like the way you catagorize the different kind of weapons and i take it over in my campaign like:

1. Laser - RKA (vs. ED); Invisible (Hearing Group); AP; No Knockback; Autofire; Beam
2. Plasma - RKA (vs. ED); AOE 1 hex; +1 Stun Multiplier; Autofire; (no Beam limitation)
3. Ion - EB (vs. ED); Penetrating; Autofire; Beam
4. Particle Beam - RKA (vs. ED);Penetrating; +1 Stun Multiplier; Autofire; Beam
5. Rail Gun - RKA (vs. PD); Autofire; AP; +1 Stun Multiplier; (no Beam limitation)

I will only convert a handfull of weapons for a short starting session, but i will try to convert the most important/famous weapons of Rifts.

The payload, range, cost and weight i take over from rifts.

How many damage deals out the typical above mentioned weapons?

Laser Pistol - RKA 2D6
Laser Rifle - RKA 3D6
Plasma Pistol- RKA 3D6
Plasma Rifle - RKA 4D6
Ion Pistol - 6D6
Ion Rifle - 9D6
Particle Beam Pistol 2D6
Particle Beam Rifle 3D6
Rail Gun - RKA 5D6
Rai Gun Samas - RKA 6D6
Boom Gun -RKA 8D6

And what about Body Armor?

Light Dead Boy 5/5 (+3/+3 for the man inside the armor)
Heavy Dead Boy 8/8 (4/4)
Gladiator 7/7 (+4/+4)
Samas (15/15) (+8/+8)
Glitter Boy 24 DEF, 50 Body; 50% Energy Reduction Only against Lasers

This is only rough data, but i want to know your opinion about it. We don't need every stat calculated out for our starting session, but hopyfully with your help i will do it over the course or between our game sessions.

Thanks :-)

[TheQuestionMan]

I really like the work you folks have put into this. I hope to see it all together soon.

Thank you

QM

[The Main Man]

Another thing that I do is adjust Active Points to maintain Damage Classes.

For Example, if I convert a Laser using my methods, a Wilk's Laser Pistol should come out to 21 Damage Classes, so since Lasers are now agreed upon as Armor Piercing, you scale it down to 14 Damage Classes, then slap Armor Piercing on it, and it goes back to 21.

Wilk's Laser Pistol - RKA 4.5d6 (vs. ED) - Armor Piercing (+0.5), Invisible (Hearing Group; +0.5), 20 Charges (+0.25); OAF (-1), Beam (-0.5), No Knockback (-0.25) = 70 Base Points, 158 Active Points, 57 Real Points



Next up, E-Clips.
1. How much END should be put into an E-Clip END Reserve?

Let's say we took the Wilk's Laser Pistol as the standard in Laser Pistols.
It would cost 16 END per shot if it wasn't using Charges.
20 x 16 = 320 END (32 Active Points) could be an approximate Small E-Clip.

2. How much REC should the END Reserve have?

The REC should be something low, like maybe 10, and the same for both sizes of E-Clip, obviously Limited because it has to be hooked up to recharge, kind of like a gas station.

3. Let's see 'em.

Small E-Clip - END Reserve 320 END - OIF (-0.5); REC 10 - Limited Recovery (-2)
42 Base Points, 42 Active Points, (21 + 3 = 24) Real Points

A Large E-Clip should have something like 1.5-2x as much END (48-64 Active Points).
Hell, let's go for an average: 1.75x (56 Active Points)

Large E-Clip - END Reserve 560 END - OIF (-0.5); REC 10 - Limited Recovery (-2)
66 Base Points, 66 Active Points, (37 + 3 = 40) Real Points

4. How does this apply to the Charges of an Energy Weapon?

When you create an Energy Weapon, you give it a number of Charges equal to the END Reserve divided by the END Cost of the Weapon.

To-Do List:
1. Environmental Body Armor, Power Armor, Robot Vehicles
2. Credit/Money System and figuring Equipment costs
3. Create organized, easy to use file containing complete conversion methods:help:

[Rifter]

yes, thats cool.

I see your Wilk's 320 Laser Pistol has much more punch than my one :( .
But yes i think you are right, RKA 2D6 is not enough.
Can you tell my how much armor you consider for a CA-1 Heavy Body Armor (Old Style Armor)? I don't need an exact coversion with all advantages, limitations and features of it, only the PD/ED for a playtesting session.

Again, nice work, thanks.

PS: I can help you with the mass of conversions if you need a helping hand. The only problem is, I'm a starter in the hero system. Anyway, if you need something (simple) done you can tell me, i have all Rifts and most Hero System books.
Do you use the Hero Designer?

[The Main Man]

Easy.
100 MDC --> 26 rPD/ 26 rED
To better understand my methods, check Posts #107 and #109, which are on page 8


In other news, I realize that I have made a goof on E-Clips.
I spotted information about E-Clips in the GM's Guide, and this makes things way easier. There was most definitely a resounding sigh.

Assume that all E-Clips are END Reserves with OIF (-0.5) and have 10 REC; Limited Recovery (-2)

Mini - 160 END (Base/Active - 26 points ; Real - 14 points)
Standard - 320 END (Base/Active - 42 points; Real - 24 points)
Long - 480 END (Base/Active - 58 points; Real - 35 points)

[Rifter]

I've started to write some Rifts weapons in the Hero Designer for your review. As i'm a starter in both, the Hero System and the Hero Designer I'm happy if you can give me some tips how to design the equipment more easy and accurate. Thanks.

I've have a problem with the export with HTML templates for this board. When i copy and paste the code in the message and press preview i can only see the HTML code and not the readable sheet.

[Rifter]

and here the weapons from the .hdp-file:

Coalition States Weapons
C-18 Laser Pistol: Multipower, 100-point reserve, (100 Active Points); all slots 10 Charges (-2), OAF (-1), Real Weapon (-1/4)
1) Laser: Killing Attack - Ranged 3d6+1, Autofire (3 shots; +1/4), Invisible to Hearing Group (+1/4), Armor Piercing (+1/2) (100 Active Points); OAF (-1), Blocked By Smoke Or Steam (-1/4), No Knockback (-1/4), Beam (-1/4), Real Weapon (-1/4)
2) +2 versus Range Modifiers (6 Active Points); OAF (-1), Real Weapon (-1/4)
3) +1 OCV (5 Active Points); OAF (-1), Real Weapon (-1/4)

C-12 Heavy Assault Laser Rifle: Multipower, 135-point reserve, (135 Active Points); all slots 10 Charges (-2), OAF (-1), Real Weapon (-1/4)
1) Laser Setting 1: Killing Attack - Ranged 4d6, Invisible to Hearing Group (+1/4), Autofire (5 shots; +1/2), Armor Piercing (+1/2) (135 Active Points); OAF (-1), Blocked By Smoke Or Steam (-1/4), No Knockback (-1/4), Beam (-1/4), Real Weapon (-1/4)
2) Laser Setting 2: Killing Attack - Ranged 3 1/2d6, Invisible to Hearing Group (+1/4), Autofire (5 shots; +1/2), Armor Piercing (+1/2) (124 Active Points); OAF (-1), Blocked By Smoke Or Steam (-1/4), No Knockback (-1/4), Beam (-1/4), Real Weapon (-1/4)
3) Laser Setting 3: Killing Attack - Ranged 1 point, Invisible to Hearing Group (+1/4), Autofire (5 shots; +1/2), Armor Piercing (+1/2) (11 Active Points); OAF (-1), Blocked By Smoke Or Steam (-1/4), No Knockback (-1/4), Beam (-1/4), Real Weapon (-1/4)
4) +2 versus Range Modifiers (6 Active Points); OAF (-1), Real Weapon (-1/4)
5) +1 OCV (5 Active Points); OAF (-1), Real Weapon (-1/4)
6) Laser Sight: (Total: 8 Active Cost, 3 Real Cost) +1 with Ranged Combat (5 Active Points); OAF (-1), Need not Brace to use; only works for shots to 64"; may not be usable against brightly colored backgrounds, through fog, or in other conditions (-1/2), Real Weapon (-1/4) (Real Cost: 1) plus +1 vs. Range Modifier (3 Active Points); OAF (-1), Need not Brace to use; only works for shots to 64"; may not be usable against brightly colored backgrounds, through fog, or in other conditions (-1/2), Real Weapon (-1/4) (Real Cost: 1)

C-14 "Fire Breather" Laser Assault Rifle and Grenade Launcher: Multipower, 151-point reserve, (151 Active Points); Required Hands Two-Handed (-1/2), Real Weapon (-1/4); all slots OAF (-1)
1) Laser: Killing Attack - Ranged 3 1/2d6, Invisible to Hearing Group (+1/4), Autofire (5 shots; +1/2), 20 Charges (+1/2), Armor Piercing (+1/2) (151 Active Points); OAF (-1), Beam (-1/4), Blocked By Smoke Or Steam (-1/4)
2) Grenade Launcher: RKA 3 1/2d6, +1 Increased STUN Multiplier (+1/4), Explosion (+1/2) (96 Active Points); OAF (-1), 12 Charges (-1/2)
3) +4 versus Range Modifiers (12 Active Points); OAF (-1)
4) +1 OCV (5 Active Points); OAF (-1)

Northern Gun Weapons
1) NG-101 Rail Gun: Killing Attack - Ranged 4d6, +1 Increased STUN Multiplier (+1/4), Armor Piercing (+1/2), Autofire (10 shots; +1) (165 Active Points); OIF Bulky (-1), Required Hands Two-Handed (-1/2), 300 Charges (-1/4), Real Weapon (-1/4)

NG-E4 Plasma Ejector: Multipower, 180-point reserve, (180 Active Points); all slots OAF (-1), 12 Charges (-1/4), Real Weapon (-1/4)
1) Plasma Blast: (Total: 180 Active Cost, 65 Real Cost) Killing Attack - Ranged 4d6, +1 Increased STUN Multiplier (+1/4), Area Of Effect (One Hex; +1/2), Autofire (3 shots; +1 1/4) (180 Active Points); OAF (-1), Required Hands Two-Handed (-1/2), Real Weapon (-1/4) (Real Cost: 60)
2) High-Power Scope: (Total: 11 Active Cost, 5 Real Cost) +1 with Ranged Combat (5 Active Points); OAF (-1), Real Weapon (-1/4) (Real Cost: 2) plus +2 vs. Range Modifier (6 Active Points); OAF (-1), Real Weapon (-1/4) (Real Cost: 2)
3) +2 versus Range Modifiers (6 Active Points); OAF (-1), Real Weapon (-1/4)

NG-H5 Holdout Ion Pistol: Multipower, 22-point reserve, (22 Active Points); all slots OAF (-1), 6 Charges (-3/4)
1) Energy Blast 3d6, Penetrating (+1/2) (22 Active Points); OAF (-1), Skill Penalty Levels (-2 versus Range Modifiers; -1/2), Beam (-1/4)

NG-P7 Particle Beam Rifle: Multipower, 146-point reserve, (146 Active Points); all slots 10 Charges (-2), OAF (-1)
1) NG-P7 Particle Beam Rifle: Killing Attack - Ranged 4d6+1, +1 Increased STUN Multiplier (+1/4), Autofire (5 shots; +1/2), Penetrating (+1/2) (146 Active Points); OAF (-1), Required Hands Two-Handed (-1/2), Beam (-1/4)
2) +2 versus Range Modifiers (6 Active Points); OAF (-1)

Wilk's Laser Technologies
Wilk's 320 Laser Pistol: Multipower, 105-point reserve, (105 Active Points); all slots 40 Charges (-2), OAF (-1), Real Weapon (-1/4)
1) Laser Blast: (Total: 87 Active Cost, 32 Real Cost) Killing Attack - Ranged 3d6+1, Autofire (3 shots; +1/4), Armor Piercing (+1/2) (87 Active Points); OAF (-1), Beam (-1/4), Blocked By Smoke Or Steam (-1/4), Real Weapon (-1/4) (Real Cost: 18)

Wilk's 447 Traditional Laser Rifle: Multipower, 135-point reserve, (135 Active Points); all slots 10 Charges (-2), OAF (-1), Real Weapon (-1/4)
1) Laser Blast: Killing Attack - Ranged 3 1/2d6, Invisible to Hearing Group (+1/4), Autofire (5 shots; +1/2), Armor Piercing (+1/2) (124 Active Points); OAF (-1), Blocked By Smoke Or Steam (-1/4), No Knockback (-1/4), Beam (-1/4), Real Weapon (-1/4)
2) +2 versus Range Modifiers (6 Active Points); OAF (-1), Real Weapon (-1/4)
3) +2 OCV (10 Active Points); OAF (-1), Real Weapon (-1/4)

Juicer Weapons
JA-11 Juicer Assassin's Energy Rifle: Multipower, 105-point reserve, (105 Active Points); OAF (-1), Required Hands Two-Handed (-1/2), Real Weapon (-1/4); all slots 30 Charges (-2)
1) Laser Setting 1: Killing Attack - Ranged 3 1/2d6, Invisible to Hearing Group (+1/4), Armor Piercing (+1/2) (96 Active Points); Beam (-1/4), Blocked By Smoke Or Steam (-1/4), No Knockback (-1/4)
2) Laser Setting 2: RKA 4d6, Invisible to Hearing Group (+1/4), Armor Piercing (+1/2) (105 Active Points); No Knockback (-1/4)
3) Ion Beam: (Total: 82 Active Cost, 66 Real Cost) Energy Blast 11d6, Penetrating (+1/2) (82 Active Points); Beam (-1/4) (Real Cost: 25)
4) 7.62mm: Killing Attack - Ranged 3 1/2d6, Armor Piercing (+1/2) (82 Active Points)
5) High-Power Scope: (Total: 11 Active Cost, 8 Real Cost) +1 with Ranged Combat (5 Active Points); OAF (-1) (Real Cost: 1) plus +2 vs. Range Modifier (6 Active Points) (Real Cost: 2)
6) Laser Sight: (Total: 8 Active Cost, 3 Real Cost) +1 with Ranged Combat (5 Active Points); OAF (-1), Need not Brace to use; only works for shots to 64"; may not be usable against brightly colored backgrounds, through fog, or in other conditions (-1/2) (Real Cost: 1) plus +1 vs. Range Modifier (3 Active Points); OAF (-1), Need not Brace to use; only works for shots to 64"; may not be usable against brightly colored backgrounds, through fog, or in other conditions (-1/2) (Real Cost: 1)
7) +4 versus Range Modifiers (12 Active Points)
8) +1 OCV (5 Active Points)

[Captain Obvious]

You have several weapons build as Multipowers with only one slot. It should be cheaper (by a point at least) to just build them as single powers.

Also that first pistol you have is a Multipower with multiple slots, but it should just be an RKA with added bonuses. The way it's built, you can only use the OCV and RMod bonuses if you don't actually shoot.

[Rifter]

Thanks for your advice. First i had most weapons as a single power or a compund power. After i had some weapons i cannot build as a single or compound power, so i decided to switch them all to multipowers. I thought it would be more easy to put a laser sigt oder telescopic sight in it.
In my campaign the players don't have to pay for the equipment anyway, so no big deal about a point more expensive.
But thanks again for your tips.

[The Main Man]

Also, don't forget that just because a weapon is Autofire that you need to make a Multipower; You can just choose to fire less than the maximum (it's what I do).

First game is tomorrow, and I'm scrambling to finish up the PCs.
Here's a basic synopsis of the PCs if anyone's curious:

Vock Wolfblood - A Green Mana mage from a Magic: The Gathering world that accidentally rifted onto Earth.

Jacques Envingionne - A Crazy who thinks that he's French and uses Tri-Blade gloves.

Marcus - A 'Borg that is a Brian Fury (Tekken video game series) emulation. :rolleyes:

Alexander O'Reilly - A SAMAS pilot and expert sniper and scout.

Just a note: I post from surrogate computers (i.e. no Internet at home:mad: ), so it is difficult for me to simply post conversions from Hero Designer, but that will soon be averted.

[The Main Man]

The game went without a hitch, and the players like it so far.

Here's some Generic Weapon Conversions, assuming that each type assumes Palladium damage of 1d6 MDC, and of course through my conversion system.

Generic Laser - RKA 4 1/2d6 (vs. ED) - Armor Piercing (+0.5), Invisible (Hearing Group; +0.25), 52 Charges (+0.5); OAF (-1), Beam (-0.25), No Knockback (-0.25), -1 Decreased STUN Multiplier (-0.25); +2 Vs. Range Modifier
Base Points: 73 CP
Active Points: 161 CP
Real Points: 60 CP

Generic Ion Blaster - EB 14d6 (vs. ED) - Penetrating (x2; +1), 23 Charges (+0.25); OAF (-1), Beam (-0.25), Limited Range (395"; -0.25)
Base Points: 70 CP
Active Points: 158 CP
Real Points: 63 CP

Generic Particle Beam Weapon - RKA 4 1/2d6 (vs. ED) - Penetrating (x2; +1), 23 Charges (+0.25); OAF (-1), Beam (-0.25), Limited Range (395"; -0.25)
Base Points: 70 CP
Active Points: 158 CP
Real Points: 63 CP

Generic Rail Gun - RKA 7d6 (vs. PD) - Autofire (10 Shots; +1), 500 Charges (+1); OAF Bulky (-1.5), Beam (-0.25), Real Weapon (-0.25)
Base Points: 105 CP
Active Points: 315 CP
Real Points: 105 CP

Generic Plasma Weapon - Multipower 158 Point Reserve - 22 Charges (+0.25); OAF (-1), No Range (-0.5)
Base Points: 158 CP
Active Points: 198 CP
Real Points: 79 CP

1) Stream - RKA 7d6 (vs. ED) - Area Of Effect (13" Line; +1), +1 Increased STUN Multiplier (+0.25)
Base Points: 105 CP
Active Points: 158 CP
Real Points: 32u CP

2) Cone - RKA 7d6 (vs. ED) - AOE (13" Cone; +1), +1 Increased STUN Multiplier (+0.25)
Base Points: 105 CP
Active Points: 158 CP
Real Points: 32u CP

3) Splatter - RKA 7d6 (vs. ED) AOE (13" Radius; +1), +1 Increased STUN Multiplier (+0.25)
Base Points: 105 CP
Active Points: 158 CP
Real Points: 32u CP

[UltraRob]

Generic Ion Blaster - EB 14d6 (vs. ED) - Penetrating (x2; +1), 23 Charges (+0.25); OAF (-1), Beam (-0.25), Limited Range (395"; -0.25)
Base Points: 70 CP
Active Points: 158 CP
Real Points: 63 CP

Generic Particle Beam Weapon - RKA 4 1/2d6 (vs. ED) - Penetrating (x2; +1), 23 Charges (+0.25); OAF (-1), Beam (-0.25), Limited Range (395"; -0.25)
Base Points: 70 CP
Active Points: 158 CP
Real Points: 63 CP


One of the problems I see with making weapons this high powered is that DANG are your PCs gonna need a lot of BODY. Those weapons are doing a minimum 4-8 BODY per hit thanks to that penetrating advantage. I see high PC turnover rate in your game...

Other than that, looks good!

Rob

[The Main Man]

Actually, PCs that are supposed to be Mega-Damage (like a supernatural being or a 'Borg) DO in fact have a large amount of BODY in my game.

By conversion, a PC is given as much BODY as they have DEF to start.
For example, an objectively converted 'Borg yields 180 MDC --> 27 DEF, 27 BODY.
After conversion, the BODY and DEF are independant of each other.
Example: Hardened 180 MDC --> 22 rDEF, 27 BODY

Interestingly enough, one of my PCs last game was whining (I just have to use that word here) about how he took 2 BODY damage from a couple of Coalition Soldiers. Evidently superheroes gaming has gotten to his head.

But you do raise a good point, and I will indeed lower Penetrating level, since I do not actually see many write-ups that would have Hardened (x2) coming along (Glitter Boy being a likely example).

New Generic Ion Blaster - EB 14d6 (vs. ED); Penetrating (+0.5), 30 Charges (+0.25); OAF (-1), Beam (-0.25), Limited Range (260"; -0.25)
Base Cost: 70 CP
Active Cost: 123 CP
Real Cost: 49 CP

New Generic Particle Beam Blaster - RKA 4.5d6 (vs. ED); Penetrating (+0.5), 30 Charges (+0.25); OAF (-1), Beam (-0.25), Limited Range (260"; -0.25)
Base Cost: 70 CP
Active Cost: 123 CP
Real Cost: 49 CP

[Greg]

Are you doing anything extra for "squishies" in regards to stun damage so they're not CON stunned all the time? My idea at one point was something like a force wall with one charge to simulate armor getting beat up, but the character didn't get hurt till the armor was gone. I can't remember the exact mechanic off the top of my head, but that was the gist of it.

[The Main Man]

Actually, wouldn't giving "squishies" precautionary CON-Stun measures negate calling them "squishy" in the first place?

Nonetheless I figure that purchasing Resistant Damage Reduction - STUN Only should suffice.

[SCUBA Hero]

Anyone try putting both Armor and BODY into MDC armors?

[NuSoardGraphite]

Anyone try putting both Armor and BODY into MDC armors?

Yes, I've done this in the past to simulate tough Powered Armor meant to have the trooper survive extremely heavy combat situations. I also tend to build in some Damage Reduction, but I would recommend that only for Powered Armor and not regular "MDC" body armor.

Extra Stun and Body will go a long way to making "Squishies" last just a bit longer in your game.

[prodigyduck]

I to have been working on a few Rifts HERO writups, as I liked the setting but not the system (and not a lot of the later additions).

Here, for instance, it a Ley Line:


LEY LINES
Ley Line (Average): Forcewall -- 0 rPD / 0 rED, 20� Long, Transparent To Energy and Physical (+1/2), Megascale (MegaArea; 1� = 1 km; +1/4), RE to 0 (+1/2), Persistent (+1/2) (110 Active Points); Visible (-1/4). Real Cost: 88.

Magical Energy: END Battery (100 END / 100 REC) (110 Active Points); Linked to Forcewall (-1/2). Real Cost: 73.

Celestial Event Energy: Aid 10d6 to END Battery, Fade Rate 5/Day (+1 ½) (250 Active Points); Only During Celestial Events: Eclipses, Planetary Alignments, or Summer/Winter Solstace (-1). Real Cost: 125.

Location of Magic: Change Environment (Area of Overwhelming Magic, -4 PER Roll to Magical Senses), AoE 20� Line (+1 1/4), Explosion (+1/2), Megascale (MegaArea; 1� = 1 km; +1/4), RE to 0 (+1/2) (60 Active Points); Linked to Forcewall (-1/2). Real Cost: 40.

Rift: Extra-Dimensional Movement (to any one random dimension/world), x512 mass, AoE (13� radius; +1), Continuous (+1/2), RE to 0 (+1/2) (195 Active Points); Gate (-1/2), Visible (-1/4), Only On Ley Line Nexus Points (-1/2), Only During Celestial Events: Eclipses, Planetary Alignments, or Summer/Winter Solstace (-1). Real Cost: 60.

Creatures From the Rifts: Summon (up to 1000 points of creatures), RE to 0 (+1/2) (300 Active Points); Activation Roll (11-; -1), Arrives Under Own Power (-1/2), Summoned Being Must Inhabit Locale (-1/2), Linked to Extra-Dimensional Movement (-1/2). Real Cost: 86.

Total Points: 472.

[prodigyduck]

I have a lot of other stuff. The math may be a bit off, as my game group uses a lot of house rules, but I am poting here as the supernatural aspects have not really been touched on too much. Most of what I have seen have been about the tech (some of which I have).

My Rifts magic rules:

Creating a Rifts Earth Spellcaster
Everyone carries a small amount of magical energy within them. Spellcasters have trained themselves to become living magical batteries; storing many times that of a normal human. Trained Rifts Earth spellcasters must buy the following abilities:

1. ENDURANCE BATTERY
This represents the amount of mystical energy the character possesses. The END Battery can be of any amount, but cannot exceed more than 10x his normal END. Thus, a normal human cannot possess an END Battery larger than 500 END (50 x 10).
The REC of the END Battery is 5; and the character’s END Battery REC is limited to every Hour (-2 Limitation). Period. Magical Energy does not recover any faster or slower than this. The only way to increase the recovery of magical energy is to steal the energy from another living being or from a ley line.

2. MULTIPOWER
A spellcaster’s Spells are purchased as a Multipower with at least a 50 point Reserve. All slots are ultra-slots and Spells must be purchased with the following Limitations: Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4), and Spell (-1/2).

3. MAGIC ENERGY THEFT
All spellcasters of Rifts Earth have learned how to draw the mystical energy from living targets or from nearby ley lines. Casters cannot use this ability against another caster, as they are trained enough to keep the energy for themselves.
This ability is brought within the caster’s Multipower, but does not count as a Spell (and thus does not require the above Limitations).

Magic Energy Theft, Target Living Beings: TRANSFER 2d6 (Target’s END to END Battery), Ranged (+1/2) (45 Active Points); Concentration (1/2 DCV; -1/2), Extra Time (Full Phase, -1/2), Limited Range (10�; -1/4), Cannot Be Used Versus Other Spellcasters (-1/2). Real Cost: 16 points.

Magic Energy Theft, Ley Line Absorption: AID 5d6 (END Battery) (50 Active Points); Self Only (-1/2), Concentration (1/2 DCV; -1/2), Extra Time (Full Phase, -1/2), Only While Near A Ley Line (-1/2). Real Cost: 17 points.

[prodigyduck]

ROBOT VEHICLES (Mecha)



All robot vehicles have the following features.

Pts.
Feature
Power
END
30
Nuclear Powered
END Battery (500 END / 100 REC) (150 Active Points); OIF (bulky; -1), Side Effects (6 1/2d6 Killing Explosion if BODY damage done to engine; -1)

18
Radar
360 degree Radar Sense + Multi-Tracking (up to 32 targets) (50 Active Points); OIF (bulky; -1), Sense Affected As Sight Group As Well As Radio Group (-1/4), Costs END (-1/2)


5
12
Targeting Computer
Detect (Enemy Targets), Locate, Radius, Full Analysis, Ranged (+1/2), Megascale (1� = 1 km; +1/4) (44 Active Points); OIF (bulky; -1), Sense Affected As Sight Group As Well As Radio Group (-1/4), Linked To Radar (-1/2), Limited Analysis Of Enemies Based On Databank Information (-1/2), Costs END (-1/2)


4
2
Laser Targeting System
+1 OCV with Ranged Attacks (5 Active Points); OIF (bulky; -1), Costs END (-1/2)


1
4
Radio Communication
HRRP (10 Active Points); OIF (bulky; -1), Sense Affected As Hearing Group As Well As Radio Group (-1/4), Costs END (-1/2)


1
5
Loudspeaker
Images (Normal Hearing) +4 PER rolls to notice (18 Active Points); Only To Amplify Character’s Voice, up to 80 decibels (-1), OIF (bulky; -1), Linked to Radio Communicator (-1/2)


2


4
External Audio Pickup
+3 PER Rolls with Hearing Group (9 Active Points); OIF (bulky; -1), Costs END (-1/2)


1


9
Spotlights
Change Environment (Light) +2 PER Rolls with Sight Group, AoE (12� cone; +1 ½), (28 Active Points); OAF (bulky; -1 1/2), No Range (-1/2)


3


5
Ejection Seat
Telekinesis (26 STR) (26 Active Points); OIF (bulky (-1), No Range (-1/2), Only To Throw Target Straight Up (-2), 1 Recoverable Charge (-1 ¼)


63
Self Destruct
RKA 10d6, NND (ED force field; +1), Does BODY (+1), Trigger (spoken command authorization, +1/4) (487 Active Points); No Range (-1/2), Self Only (-1/2), Real Weapon (-1/4), Extra Time (once activated, takes 1 Minute to arm and detonate; -1 ½), 1 Charge Which Never Recovers (-4)

7
Voice-Actuated Locking System
Sensor Operations (18-) (17 Active Points); No Range (-1/2), Self Only (-1/2), Only To Keep Vehicle Locked (bypassed with proper voice authorization; -1/2)

9
Environmental Pilot and Crew Compartment
LS vs. Heat, Cold, Radiation, High Pressure, Low Pressure/Vacuum (17 Active Points); OIF (bulky (-1)

8
Oxygen Supply
LS vs. Breathing, 1 Continuing Fuel Charge of 12 Hours (fuel is easy to obtain; +1/2) (15 Active Points); OIF (bulky (-1)

3
Polarized and Light Sensitive/Adjusting Visor
Flash Defense 5 pts. (Sight Group) (5 Active Points); Only Protects Versus Exterior Flashes Against Interior Personnel (-1)

179
TOTAL

[TheQuestionMan]

That stuff is BRILLIANT!!!

Thank you

QM

[UltraRob]

Yes, excellent work! :thumbup:

How many points are you PCs built on? I suspect at least 300.

Rob

[prodigyduck]

Honestly, our games are particularly skill-heavy. Our average Heroic-scale game is 300 points with 100 points of Disadvantages (so character will end up around 400 points).

[CandidGamera]

I guess I don't get why the Ley Line would be a Force Wall, nor do I get who would be paying the point cost for it..

[The Main Man]

Prodigyduck: Those Robot Vehicle Conversions are almost identical to mine. Good job!

Candid Gamera: While I don't understand the Force Wall aspect; one idea is (now this is going to sound very munchkin) to make the power Summon Ley Line.
But beyond that, I think he is just designing them to be a structured plot device.

Sunday I got World Book 11: Coalition War Campaign. Pretty neat, but it just further justifies HERO conversion.

Note: I was just looking in a retailer magazine called ICV2 and HERO was #8 on Quarter 4 Top 10 RPG lines. Rifts/Palladium was #10.
Just thought I would mention it.

[tgrandjean]

Triax X-1000 Ulti-Max Power Armor
25 Size Cat: 5 2.5" x 1.4" DCV: -3 KB: -5" 2.5 tons
0 Str: 35
24 Dex: 18
3 Body: 18
42 DEF: 18
12 SPD: 4

16 Running 14" x2
7 Running +3", + 1 DCV, OIF: Boosters (-1/2)
-2 Swimming: 0" [Doesn't float]

3 Extra Limbs: Arms,Legs OIF: (-1/2)

VX-180 Maxi-Rail Gun
4.5d6 RKA vs. PD, AP (+1/2), Autofire 10 (+1), Charges x2 clips of 1000 charges (+1), 245 active
OAF: VX-180 Rail Gun (-1), Beam (-1/4), 2-H (-1/2), Real Weapon (-1/4)
81 real
Variable frequency light laser
3d6+1 RKA vs ED, AP (+1/2), 0 END w/backup 40 shot clip (+1), 125 active
OAF: VX-180 Rail Gun (-1), Beam (-1/4), 2-H (-1/2), Real Weapon (-1/4)
41 real
5 real +2 OCV w/ VX-180, OAF: Vx-180 (-1)

VX-160 Mini Missile Launchers x2
4d6+1 RKA vs PD, Indirect [can arc around obstacles](+1/2), No range penalty (+1/2), autofire 5(+1/2), Area of Effect: 1 hex (+1/2). 195 active,
OIF:Bulky VX-160 (-1), Beam (-1/4), Real Weapon (-1/4), Missile travels at 200" per segment w/ a min of 1 extra segment (-1/2), Charges 15 (-0)
65 real +5pts

Increased HtH damage
+6d6 (13d6) EB vs PD, Add Str (+1/2) 45 active, 0 Range (-1/2)
30 real

Rechargeable Force Field
Force field 16/16 ED/PD, 0 End (+1/2) 48 active, Ablative (-1), Cannot fire laser when FF is active (-0)
24 real

Sensor Systems
Infrared (5), Ultraviolet (5), Nightvision (5) Telescopic: +10 vs range (15), Flash Defense: 5pts 35 active, OIF:Bulky Sensor Head (-1)
17 real

Radar Sense (15), 360deg (w/radio group) (10), Telescopic: +4 vs range (6) Detect Broadcast Spectrum Transmissions (5), Transmit (2) 38 active,
OIF:Bulky Sensor Head (-1)
19 real

Life support: No need to breathe (10), All diseases and biowarfare (10), All poisons and chemical warfare (10), Low Pressure/ vacuum, High Pressure, High Radiation, Intense Cold, Intense Heat (9)
39 real

+2 OCV w/ Triax X-1000 weapon systems
10 real

+2 w/ Combat Piloting
6 real

472 real
-25 Distinctive Features: Powerful war machine (nonconcealable, Ext)

447/5: 89 pts

Notes: This is more of an adaption than a conversion. It was mostly done by feel. I considered using the force field as a force wall (or extra body), but eventually decided that it wasn't worth the effort. Also, being midway between a power armor and a robot vehicle (leaning more towards the robot) it's manueverable, but not as manueverable as a pure power armor. Oops. Forgot that you can't fire the laser when the FF is active. Not that it matters as I figure a 0pt modifier. The other systems can be fired. DEF might be a tad high. 16 might be a bit better.

[NuSoardGraphite]

DEF 18 sounds about right for the UltiMax. It did have quite a bit of MDC compared to vehicles of equivalent size (aside from the Glitterboy of course)

[The Main Man]

That's a pretty close conversion to what I would have done.

[prodigyduck]

Coalition Spider Skull Walker
Size 8
STR 55
DEX 10
BODY 25
DEF 15
SPD 3
Total Characteristic Cost: 99

(10)Spider Legs: +10" Ground Movement (16" total), x4 Noncombat (25 Active Points); OIF Bulky (-1), Costs Endurance (-1/2)
(10)Visual Sensors: Infrared Vision and Active UV Vision (15 Active Points); Costs Endurance (-1/2)
(82) C-100R Spider Cannons: Killing Attack - Ranged 6d6 (vs. PD), Indirect can be arched over some intervening obstacles (+1/4), +1 STUN Multiplier (+1/4), 250 (charges only recover at Coalition Military base) Charges (+1) (225 Active Points); OIF Bulky (-1), Beam (-1/4), Limited Arc of Fire 180 Degrees (-1/4), Real Weapon (-1/4)
(25)CR-4T Laser Turret: Killing Attack - Ranged 2 1/2d6 (vs. ED), Increased Maximum Range (1500"; +1/4), Armor Piercing x1 (+1/2) (70 Active Points); OIF Bulky (-1), Beam (-1/4), Limited Arc of Fire 180 Degrees (-1/4), Real Weapon (-1/4)
(5) A second laser turret
(113) Smoke Generator: Darkness to Sight Group 32" radius, 64" long and 4" wide Line (+1/2) (480 Active Points); OIF Bulky (-1), Limited Arc of Fire (0 Degrees behind vehicle, only on same horizontal level) (-1), No Range (-1/2), 4 Continuing Charges lasting 1 Turn each (charges only recover at Coalition Military base; -1/2), Affected By Wind (-1/4)
(55) Tear Gas Generator: Flash 8d6 (Sight Group), Continuous (+1), No Normal Defense solid eye coverings or LS vs. Corrosives (+1), Area Of Effect (48" Radius; +1 1/2) (180 Active Points); Limited Arc of Fire 0 Degrees behind vehicle (-3/4), Only on the same horizontal level (-1/4), 4 Continuing Charges lasting 1 Turn each (charges only recover at Coalition Military base; -1/2), No Range (-1/2), Affected By Wind (-1/4)
(179) Standard Robot Vehicle Features (see above post)
Total Powers Cost 479

Disads
(20)Distinctive Features: Coalition Death's Head Motif (Not Concealable; Always Noticed and Causes Major Reaction; Detectable By Commonly-Used Senses)
(10)Hunted: Coalition Military 11- (Mo Pow; Watching; Extensive Non-Combat Influence; Limited Geographical Area)
(10)Vulnerability: 2 x BODY Magnetic Attacks (Uncommon)
(5)Vulnerability: 1 1/2 x BODY Sonic Attacks (Uncommon)

[tgrandjean]

NG-V7 Hunter Mobile Gun

35 Size Cat 7 5"x2.5" 34 tons DCV -4 KB -9"

10 Str 55 11d6
15 Dex 15 OCV/DCV 5
5 Body 22
48 DEF 18
15 SPD 4
4 High Density: Knockback Resistance: -2"
Crew: (2) Pilot + Gunner + up to 4 passengers


3 Extra Limbs: Arms, legs (5) OIF (-1/2)
34 Running: 23" x2
-2 Swimming: 0" [Doesn't float]

NG-H155 Howitzer Rail Gun
5.5d6 RKA, AP (+1/2), Area Effect: 31" Radius (+1), Autofire 5 (+1), Indirect(+1/4: can be arced over some terrain and obstructions), Charges: 5,000 x2 (+1) 403 active
OIF: Bulky (-1), Real Weapon (-1/4), Beam (-1/4)
161 real

Forearm Rocket Launchers (x2)
4d6+1 RKA vs PD, Indirect [can arc around obstacles](+1/2), No range penalty (+1/2), Autofire 5(+1/2), Area of Effect: 1 hex (+1/2). 195 active
OIF:Forearm Rocket Launcher (-1), Beam (-1/4), Real Weapon (-1/4), Missile travels at 200" per segment w/ a min of 1 extra segment (-1/2), Charges 9 (-1/4)
60 real + 5

NG-330 Heavy Laser
4d6 RKA, AP (+1/2), 0 End (+1/2) 90 active
OIF:Bulky NG-330 (-1), Beam (-1/4), Real Weapon (-1/4)
36 real

Increased HtH damage
+6d6 (17d6) EB vs PD, Add Str (+1/2) 45 active, 0 Range (-1/2)
30 real

Sensor Systems
Infrared (5), Ultraviolet (5), Nightvision (5) Telescopic: +10 vs range (15), Flash Defense: 5pts 35 active,
OIF:Bulky Visual Sensor package (-1)
17 real

Radar Sense (15), 360deg (w/radio group) (10), Telescopic: +10 vs range (15) Detect Broadcast Spectrum Transmissions (5), Transmit (2) 47 active,
OIF:Bulky Radio Sensor package (-1)
23 real

Floodlights (x3)
Images: Sight +4 Per, Increased Radius: 4" (+1/2), 0 End (+1/2) 50 active
OAF: Bulky (-1 1/2), Only for light (-1)
14 real +10

Life support: No need to breathe (10), All diseases and biowarfare (10), All poisons and chemical warfare (10), Low Pressure/ vacuum, High Pressure, High Radiation, Intense Cold, Intense Heat (9)
39 real

10 +2 OCV w/ NG-V7 Weapon Systems

572 pts
-25 Distinctive Features: powerful warmachine (nonconcealable,ext)
-15 Physical Lim: Top Heavy (freq, greatly: prone to falling, difficult to manuever, etc)


532/5= 106pts

Notes: The Area of Effect on the howitzer represents the 'steel rain' effect of pouring thousands of projectiles into an area rather than an explosive shell. I was going to reduce the radius but decided the heck with it. It is a howitzer regardless of what Rifts says. I do realize this makes it somewhat more powerful than the Rifts version, but heck with it. And hey, I remembered to add the floodlights this time. ;)
It could also benefit from some Ranged Skill levels.

[The Main Man]

Here's something that I am still rying to work out: Credits.

I am not sure how a Credit compares to a dollar.

I wish that Rifts contained a brief guide to the Rifts-Earth economy, much like D&D explains Platinum, Gold, Silver, and Copper pieces.

Perhaps we could work something out?

[prodigyduck]

I have looked at the books, and I can say, without a doubt...

The Credits system makes NO SENSE. The monetary values of things do not seem to have any rhyme or reason; seemingly applied randomly to devices, depending on how hard the authors decided they want things in the books for PC to get ahold of...

Do your own thing.

[The Main Man]

That's the conclusion that I came to as well.
It's almost good enough to be legal defense maneuver (see The Chewbacca Defense).

I think that I may need assistance in creating a proper credit system.
I probably could use the Star HERO price chart as a basis; that would be a good start...

[CandidGamera]

Hmm. I came up with some conversion factor for the Credits based on a midpoint between two extreme examples.. I don't have the information handy, though. I'll have to check when I get home to see if I still have my notes.

[prodigyduck]

I did find a little online thesis about Credits:

The Trouble with Credits


The currency of the modern, civilized world of Rifts Earth is "credits" -- electronic money kept and accounted for by a sophisticated, computerized banking system. Credits can be wire transferred at most CS cities, towns, burbs and outposts, or encoded on "debit cards," small sturdy, plastic cards very similar to pre-Rifts credit cards or telephone cards. Each time the "debit" card is used, the appropriate amount of credits is deducted from the card. When all the credits are used up, the card can be thrown away or saved and taken to an appropriate banking institution, money lender, or merchant to have credits in a savings account transferred onto the card for future use. Similarly, many businesses, banks, money lenders and even the Black Market and some travelling merchants can place additional credits into the card by transferring real and existing funds from their account into the card. This can be done as a loan, to make payments to an employee, to pay a bounty, and commonly when the bank, business or merchant purchases goods (gold, silver, furs, guns, magic items, ancient artifacts, etc.).
The government of the Coalition States (representing 73% of all trade on the continent) is the one responsible for creating this system of money exchange and accounting. It prevents counterfeiting and enables the government (who controls the banking) to monitor the flow of money and commerce. For this reason, the Black Market, arms dealers, smugglers and many operating in the sale and purchase of illegal goods and services prefer to "trade" goods for goods rather than issue "credits" as an effective way to pay and trade people "under the table."
"Universal Credits" are the most common and popular form of credits instituted by the Coalition States. Universal credits are good with all merchants, businesses, and banks throughout the Coalition States, as well as in the New German Republic and many independent kingdoms, nations and businesses including Northern Gun, the Manistique Imperium, Wellington Industries, Wilk’s, Iron Heart Armaments, Golden Age Weaponsmiths, Free Quebec, Whykin, Lazlo, New Lazlo, and most Midwest and eastern communities, including the Black Market (although front companies and cover identities are necessary for the latter). Most mercenaries, adventurers, bandits and people of North America will accept Universal Credits as a viable currency! Universal Credits is the main currency of North America.
Since the Coalition States are strong and stable, there is little danger of the credits becoming devalued or of the banks going out of business. Furthermore, because the system is based on "redeemable" Universal Credits typically available to the "bearer" of the card, it is safe to put thousands, even millions of credits on one or more cards and use the money/credits freely, just about anywhere, without question. In this regard, the CS is unbelievably tolerant in its dealings with questionable businesses. For this system of banking and money exchange to collapse, the Coalition States would have to completely change its banking and monetary system (a monumental and disruptive task), or be destroyed. Ironically, this creates a subtle and bizarre interdependence and symbiotic relationship with both the supporters and enemies of the States!
"Marked" or "Personalized" debit cards in which the funds are available only to one or two specific individuals can also be issued, but each transaction with that card will be recorded, identifying the user, what he or she purchased, and where, giving the Coalition watchdogs potentially incriminating information.
Some independent nations, kingdoms, organizations (like the Black Market) and businesses with numerous outlets throughout the land issue their own form of "credits" on debit cards via an independent banking institution. Individuals who despise the Coalition may elect to use these instead of the CS Universal Credits. Likewise, citizens and supporters of that community or institution may also prefer to use their own credit system, however there are problems with this. First, the security of the credits is based entirely on the stability of the kingdom or organization that issued them. Obviously, such places are much more unstable and vulnerable to disaster than the CS. Second, since the CS will not recognize most other nations and never accepts foreign credits, these money cards have an extremely limited value. In many cases these independent debit cards are only accepted in the kingdom that issued them and worthless everywhere else (and another reason the CS Universal Credits are so popular).
Lazlo and New Lazlo, Tolkeen, and a handful of other independent kingdoms and cities have their own form of "credit" system, but only the joint efforts of Northern Gun and the Manistique Imperium have managed to establish a banking and credits/debit system that is accepted and used at many locations throughout the country. Typically, any seller of Northern Gun (NG) and Imperium (MI) weapons and equipment (both using the same credits system and debit cards) will usually accept NGMI debit cards redeemable for credits that can be used at these Upper Michigan kingdoms and with all NG and MI "authorized" gun shops, merchants and traders, as well as most 'Burbs. Furthermore, a handful of other independent towns, cities, merchants and traveling shows use or accept NGMI cards, including Lazlo, New Lazlo, Kingsdale, Ciudad Juarez, and scattered towns in the Pecos Empire, Lone Star, and Magic Zone.
The third credits/debit system to rival the NGMI and challenge the CS Universal Credits is that of the Black Market. Their debit card is a simple, encoded black plastic card. It is good at virtually all Black Market operations scattered throughout the world, including the Coalition States, and accepted by all official Black Market agents, operatives and freelancers, as well as by most Juicers, Crazies, Gunslingers, Bounty Hunters, mercenaries, spies, smugglers, bandits and criminals of all kind. Black Credits, as this illegal, underground system of banking and debit cards are known, is welcome at Coalition Burbs, most Body-Chop-Shops, the Pecos Empire, and many (not all) merchants and businesses at Tolkeen, New Lazlo, Whykin, Kingsdale, Free Quebec, Lone Star and scattered towns in the New West.

[The Main Man]

Note taken, but it still doesn't explain their value.

[prodigyduck]

Honestly, as I said before, there seems to be no proper value attached to Credits. I cannot offer a dollars to credits conversion.

It you want a basic scale, I use this:

Active Points of Gear x 20 = Credits Cost

[The Main Man]

Lately, I've seen a rule used in several members' games in superheroic campaigns that may benefit me in the long run.

Some GMs use the rule that if you are attacking characters of a considerably lower power level than you, i.e. normals vs. supers, then normal things have Vulnerability: 2x BODY, STUN, and/or Effect to all truly superheroic powers.

Using this, I can have smaller builds for my Rifts HERO characters, while still giving them a sense of power.

I've also thought of implementing the reverse of the rule as well: if normals attack "mega-damage" characters, the "MDC" PC has 50% Damage Reduction versus normal-power attacks.

The only problem is that some PCs in Rifts may not qualify, so I do not know whether to make it an everyman power that can be sold back, or if it just bought like everything else, unless it is part of the armor, etc.

[prodigyduck]

I completely ignore MDC and SDC. Damage is damage in my Rifts HERO game.

To represent Mega-Damage, I usually make MD Weapons with the Armor Piercing Advantage, and give MD Armors the Hardened Advantage. That's really all I do to represent this bad Palladium trope.

[The Main Man]

After a discussion about the costs of knives, a stroke of inspiration led me to compare credit costs later in the day.

In my campaign, I declare that 1 Credit is equal to $1/3.

[The Main Man]

Lately, I've wanted to inject even more variation into Weapons and finally got my Dark Champions book back.

I forgot all about the Piercing power (although it's more like an adder).

The problem is still the fact that in Rifts there is no real difference from one weapon to the next except more or less damage.

Looks like another "wing it" scenario.

[prodigyduck]

In my case, I just have: Laser Pistols / Rifles, Ion Guns (Blasters), Particle Beam Weapons, Plasma Weapons, and then a normal set of guns. All the high-tech weapons are pretty generic, and based on the write-ups found in Star HERO. If a player wants to customize their weapon, they need to modify the base write-up. Otherwise, a gun is a gun is a gun.

[The Main Man]

One thing that I have done is first make three archetypes of energy weapons.

1. Pistols
2. Rifles
3. Cannons

Then I divide my general range of DC's between them.

10-13 DC's = Pistol
14-16 DC's = Rifle
17+ DC's = Cannon

[The Main Man]

Rifts HERO: The New Deal Part 1

Here's the starters (this one's going to be erratic at best):

Gauss weapons are personal, Rail Guns are mounted or for power armors.

Gauss weapons are converted from DC writeups by doing the following:

1) Add 7 DC's to the weapon of choice

2) Divide the total DC's by 1.5

3) Add the Armor Piercing Power Advantage
The higher velocities of Gauss weapons give them superior penetrating power

4) Multiply the Charges by 1.5
Gauss weapons do not require chemical propulsion, thusly there are smaller bullets

5) Increase the Autofire Rate (if any) by 1.5
The nature of Gauss guns is such that once a bullet enters the chamber it is expelled, which means that individual bullets need not be chemically propelled

Example: Take a SMG (RKA 1d6+1 AF5 [40]

Step 1: 1d6+1 = 4 DC's + 7 DC's = 11 DC's

Step 2: 11/1.5 ~7 DC's = RKA 2d6+1

Step 3: RKA 2d6+1 AP

Step 4: RKA 2d6+1 AP [60]

Step 5: RKA 2d6+1 AP AF8 [60]

You now have a Gauss Uzi

Rail guns are similar to Gauss weapons, but drop step 2; Rail Guns are far more devastating than a Gauss Weapon.

A Glitter Boy's Boom Gun is built as a LAW Rocket based on this process as well as a Linked Hearing Group Flash Explosion with No Range (Personally Immune)

[Doctor Agenda]

I started with the Wilke's Laser Pistol to establish a baseline MD rating: a 4d6 AP RKA, based on the fact that a modern LAW Rocket in Palladium has the same MD as the LP. Then each +1d6 of MD equals +1 DC. MD Armor is, of course, hardened. If you want to simulate the chipping away affect of Palladium MD Armor, instead of raising its DEF, give it extra Body. The characteristics translate pretty well directly, including # of Attacks = Spd.

My recommendation though, is that you throw out the RIFTS rules and just use the setting with Champions rules, Star Hero Tech and Fantasy Hero Magic. You've got enough to do figuring out what Juicers and Linewalkers should look like (IF you want to stick with classes, no reason why people can't have unique characters) without statting out every piece of equipment, too. They can have blasters and such off-the-shelf from Star Hero. I'm just sayin' there's such a thing as too much conversion if what you REALLY like is the setting.

[The Main Man]

I've mostly done away with all that except for the MAG weapons...

[The Main Man]

Rifts The New Deal Part 2: Magic & the Supernatural

I told you I'm going to be jumping all over the place.


Magic requires belief and conviction to cast.

This looks like an EGO-Based Power Skill Roll that would be called Magic of course.
Similarly, all Magic Spells are required to take Requires a Skill Roll (-1/2) at the very minimum.

I have placed a limit of 30 Real Points per spell, but there is no Base or Active Point limit.

If a player chooses to make their spells stronger, there is a ladder to go down as far as Limitations go with Spells:


Incantations and/or Gestures
Extra Time
Increased END Cost
Ritual


Example 1: I want to build a Fireball spell.
I could make it RKA 3d6; Requires A Skill Roll (-1/2) = 30 CP and be done with it.

Or I could build it as RKA 4d6; Requires a Skill Roll (-1/2), Incantations (-1/4), Gestures (-1/4) = 30 CP and call it a day.

Maybe I want it even stronger. RKA 5d6; Requires A Skill Roll (-1/2), Incantations (-1/4), Gestures (-1/4), Extra Time (Full Phase; -1/2) = 30 CP.

Even stronger? RKA 6d6; Requires A Skill Roll (-1/2), Incantations (-1/4), Gestures (-1/4), Extra Time (Full Phase; -1/2), Increased END Cost (x2 END; -1/2) = 30 CP.

Ever more tedious for ever more power.

[heartlessangel7]

I completely ignore MDC and SDC. Damage is damage in my Rifts HERO game.

To represent Mega-Damage, I usually make MD Weapons with the Armor Piercing Advantage, and give MD Armors the Hardened Advantage. That's really all I do to represent this bad Palladium trope.

I agree w/ prodigy that's what I do to simulate the MD/MDC. As far as the different levels of strenght, there is no modification. High strength=Supernatural/Robotic (40-70+) Medium strength=
Superhuman/Robotic (25-40) Low=Extraordinary (19-30) Below 18=regular strength.

[Doctor Agenda]

The arbitrary pricing creates some strange dynamics: Say I'm a warlord who gets ahold of one of the mighty Rune Weapons, one that I can sell for 70 million credits. Sure, it's handy and all that, but I can get dozens of suits of top-end power armor for that kind of money or pay for all kinds of augmentations for my soldiers. It seems like only someone obsessed with magic or already filthy rich would want to keep one instead of sell it and use those resources for something else. Obviously the price is so high so that no PC will EVER be able to buy one, but it's also so high that few PCs would KEEP one, and which is more unbalancing to a game, a PC with a Rune Weapon or a PC with 70 million credits?. But for the price to be so high there has to be a great demand for them. Who is bidding up the darn Rune Weapons? The Splugorth can make their own. Do Tolkeen and the Federation of Magic really have that many billionaires?

I'm getting ready to start a Rifts Hero game, I think I'll just off the cuff have credits buy about what dollars do these days when I have to come up with a price that isn't listed or isn't reasonable. Maybe a multiple of Real Points for things hard to guesstimate.

[The Main Man]

The arbitrary pricing creates some strange dynamics: Say I'm a warlord who gets ahold of one of the mighty Rune Weapons, one that I can sell for 70 million credits. Sure, it's handy and all that, but I can get dozens of suits of top-end power armor for that kind of money or pay for all kinds of augmentations for my soldiers. It seems like only someone obsessed with magic or already filthy rich would want to keep one instead of sell it and use those resources for something else. Obviously the price is so high so that no PC will EVER be able to buy one, but it's also so high that few PCs would KEEP one, and which is more unbalancing to a game, a PC with a Rune Weapon or a PC with 70 million credits?. But for the price to be so high there has to be a great demand for them. Who is bidding up the darn Rune Weapons? The Splugorth can make their own. Do Tolkeen and the Federation of Magic really have that many billionaires?

I'm getting ready to start a Rifts Hero game, I think I'll just off the cuff have credits buy about what dollars do these days when I have to come up with a price that isn't listed or isn't reasonable. Maybe a multiple of Real Points for things hard to guesstimate.

It's too bad that the Universal Credit system wasn't properly explained.

Personally, I put them at 1/3 USD.

[Doctor Agenda]

I'm using vampires straight from the Bestiary except I gave them 1 Bod Regen per Turn instead of 3 Bod per whatever and lowered the intelligence on the 'wild vampires' to eight. My GMPC is a Wilderness Scout with Gestalt Resurrection so I can re-use him if he gets killed. I went with 125 base and 75 in disads. In the party we have the equivalent of a Wired Gunslinger who uses knives instead of guns, an Operator, a Linewalker, and a True Atlantean Psitech. The Operator has a Wilderness Crusader based on the Epsilon Hoverfighter from TUV, minus the Multiform, with less maneuverability and more armor.

[Doctor Agenda]

I made tapping Ley Lines a Perk, 10 points for the Line Walker to get to do all their Ley Line tricks like phasing, drifting, healing, transmission, and observation balls. 5 points for the True Atlantean to just be able to phase and take advantage of the usual Ley Line properties any psychic or sorceror can manage. Building them as powers just seemed too complicated, and I pretty much have total control over where they are and can always invoke a ley line storm if I don't want them using one.

Say, does anyone know what AD year 100 PA corresponds to?

[The Main Man]

I made tapping Ley Lines a Perk, 10 points for the Line Walker to get to do all their Ley Line tricks like phasing, drifting, healing, transmission, and observation balls. 5 points for the True Atlantean to just be able to phase and take advantage of the usual Ley Line properties any psychic or sorceror can manage. Building them as powers just seemed too complicated, and I pretty much have total control over where they are and can always invoke a ley line storm if I don't want them using one.

Say, does anyone know what AD year 100 PA corresponds to?

Well, before the Great Cataclysm it's supposed to be around 2100 AD, and 100 PA is supposed to be roughly 300 years after that, so that would probably put it in the vicinity of 2400 AD.

[Doctor Agenda]

Well, before the Great Cataclysm it's supposed to be around 2100 AD, and 100 PA is supposed to be roughly 300 years after that, so that would probably put it in the vicinity of 2400 AD.

Gracias! Sorry to be a bother...but does anyone know what year PA it's supposed to be in the Rifts Universe now? I know there's been that big Siege on Tolkeen mess so it must have been years 'in-universe' since the game came out.

BTW, I went with 2d6 Penetrating or Armor-Piercing KA for 1d6 MD, 2d6+1 for
2d6 MD and so on, as I wasn't really interested in perpetuating the MD overkill. Hero Combat is already deadlier (!) than Palladium SDC combat so there isn't a broken discrepancy between different damage scales to fix. All the cybernetics makes more sense when you can get your arm lasered and survive the experience, too.

[The Main Man]

Gracias! Sorry to be a bother...but does anyone know what year PA it's supposed to be in the Rifts Universe now? I know there's been that big Siege on Tolkeen mess so it must have been years 'in-universe' since the game came out.

BTW, I went with 2d6 Penetrating or Armor-Piercing KA for 1d6 MD, 2d6+1 for
2d6 MD and so on, as I wasn't really interested in perpetuating the MD overkill. Hero Combat is already deadlier (!) than Palladium SDC combat so there isn't a broken discrepancy between different damage scales to fix. All the cybernetics makes more sense when you can get your arm lasered and survive the experience, too.
I'm not sure what the specific year actually is now that you mention it but I believe that it is in the new "Ultimate Edition," which has been updated to the more current events of the Rifts world.

Yeah, as you can probably see from reading this thread, I have gone through quite a process searching for a way to simulate Mega-Damage only to end up agreeing that it is a mechanic best forgotten since it doesn't make a whole lot of sense no matter what KS spouts out in its defense. :rolleyes:

But for me, I have settled on just slightly raising DC's and building weapons and armor to equivalent scale.

OTOH I have taken many liberties with the setting to reshape into my own vision and I might even share it if anyone is interested (I know that I would be interested in others' takes myself).

[Doctor Agenda]

I'd like to see what you've done!

[The Main Man]

Oh, I will eventually, once I have enough of the mechanics figured out.

OTOH, I can more quickly present some of my [moderate] setting revisions (for example, Fu Leng of L5R invaded Japan during the Great Cataclysm and THAT's why there are oni).

[Twilight]

Oh, I will eventually, once I have enough of the mechanics figured out.

OTOH, I can more quickly present some of my [moderate] setting revisions (for example, Fu Leng of L5R invaded Japan during the Great Cataclysm and THAT's why there are oni).

Tell me you redid the Tolkeen/Coalition War so that it didn't suck large. Tell me this and I will rep you as many times as I can and encourage others to do the same.

[The Main Man]

Tell me you redid the Tolkeen/Coalition War so that it didn't suck large. Tell me this and I will rep you as many times as I can and encourage others to do the same.

Y'know, considering that I haven't even gotten to that, I'm not sure.

The first campaign didn't really touch it and the new one was voted to take place in Japan where it is inconsequential.

Let me put it this way: Palladium should try to distinguish between campaign and campaign setting, if you get my drift.

[pjmfox2003]

Tell me you redid the Tolkeen/Coalition War so that it didn't suck large. Tell me this and I will rep you as many times as I can and encourage others to do the same.

In the Rifts campaign we did in Hero, I set the PC's in Tolkeen during the Coalition military build-up and let them be the deciding factor if the city fell or not.
(as it turned out we never got to finish, so the fate of Tolkeen has yet to be seen:eek:).

[Twilight]

In the Rifts campaign we did in Hero, I set the PC's in Tolkeen during the Coalition military build-up and let them be the deciding factor if the city fell or not.
(as it turned out we never got to finish, so the fate of Tolkeen has yet to be seen:eek:).

Presumably you didn't hamstring Tolkeen or give the Coalition the ability to pull millions of troops out of thier hindquarters either. At least I hope you didn't.

Did I mention that I really really REALLY hated Tolkeen Wars? The last book in the series was particularly heinous.

[The Main Man]

In the Rifts campaign we did in Hero, I set the PC's in Tolkeen during the Coalition military build-up and let them be the deciding factor if the city fell or not.
(as it turned out we never got to finish, so the fate of Tolkeen has yet to be seen:eek:).
That's what I've been thinking of doing myself.

I feel like the Tolkeen/Coalition war is a bad novel disguised as a series of modules.

[Twilight]

That's what I've been thinking of doing myself.

I feel like the Tolkeen/Coalition war is a bad novel disguised as a series of modules.

No kidding. There's several places where Tolkeen should've had a clear advantage but they don't simply because the writer wants the Coalition to win. I remember the books talking about how a Coalition victory was inevitable yet people on the Palladium forums were talking about how they could be taken out with the spells from the first rulebook.

[Doctor Agenda]

Presumably you didn't hamstring Tolkeen or give the Coalition the ability to pull millions of troops out of thier hindquarters either. At least I hope you didn't.

Did I mention that I really really REALLY hated Tolkeen Wars? The last book in the series was particularly heinous.

You mean where Tolkeen continually did everything right, proved that Lazlo and Lord Coake should have backed them from the beginning, only to have the Coalition turn their defenses against them via deus ex machina? And then it was still so close that logically Tolkeen would still have won if they'd had a little help? All the while being reminded how foolish and selfish their leaders were for standing and fighting instead of evacuating in the first place and condemning them for turning to demonic allies when they wouldn't have needed so many if they'd gotten support from the 'good' guys? Funny, it didn't bother me.

[Doctor Agenda]

Vampire-fighting question: Anyone know the modifiers for a heart shot? I'm thinking -9 to hit, x2 Bod, x5 Stn, but that's just an educated guess, if there's an 'official' take on the question, I'll use it. What I have here would give an 18 Dex Vamp a DCV of 15 if you were going for the heart. Now I see why Buffy has to beat on them for awhile first, it's a nearly impossible shot unless the vamp is stunned or prone or suprised.

[Twilight]

You mean where Tolkeen continually did everything right, proved that Lazlo and Lord Coake should have backed them from the beginning, only to have the Coalition turn their defenses against them via deus ex machina? And then it was still so close that logically Tolkeen would still have won if they'd had a little help? All the while being reminded how foolish and selfish their leaders were for standing and fighting instead of evacuating in the first place and condemning them for turning to demonic allies when they wouldn't have needed so many if they'd gotten support from the 'good' guys? Funny, it didn't bother me.

No I was thinking along the lines of the Coalition not being able to pull a million soldiers out of the ether after the majority of thier forces were decimated. Or where a Coalition officer wasn't able to sneak an armoured division through territory ruled by creatures that were stated to be enemies of the Coalition and genocidally protective of thier territory, then sneak that armoured division up to Tolkeen without a single person noticing. Or perhaps no scenario where all of Tolkeen's magic stops working the day of an enemy attack. Or perhaps all those people who were stated to be aiding Tolkeen in previous books, mysteriously not showing up anyplace in the series. Don't even get me started on the Coalition being able to sneak spies into a community formed mainly of psychics and magicians.

Yeah, that bothered me, A LOT! :thumbdown

[Warp9]

The arbitrary pricing creates some strange dynamics: Say I'm a warlord who gets ahold of one of the mighty Rune Weapons, one that I can sell for 70 million credits. Sure, it's handy and all that, but I can get dozens of suits of top-end power armor for that kind of money or pay for all kinds of augmentations for my soldiers. It seems like only someone obsessed with magic or already filthy rich would want to keep one instead of sell it and use those resources for something else. Obviously the price is so high so that no PC will EVER be able to buy one, but it's also so high that few PCs would KEEP one, and which is more unbalancing to a game, a PC with a Rune Weapon or a PC with 70 million credits?

That is not a situation which is unique to Rifts.

I've seen D&D games where the GM has tried to make it so that nobody could afford to buy magic items. This concept works fine until a PC gets ready to sell such an item.

[Warp9]

I made tapping Ley Lines a Perk, 10 points for the Line Walker to get to do all their Ley Line tricks like phasing, drifting, healing, transmission, and observation balls. 5 points for the True Atlantean to just be able to phase and take advantage of the usual Ley Line properties any psychic or sorceror can manage. Building them as powers just seemed too complicated, and I pretty much have total control over where they are and can always invoke a ley line storm if I don't want them using one.

I like that approach. :thumbup:

[Doctor Agenda]

No I was thinking along the lines of the Coalition not being able to pull a million soldiers out of the ether after the majority of thier forces were decimated. Or where a Coalition officer wasn't able to sneak an armoured division through territory ruled by creatures that were stated to be enemies of the Coalition and genocidally protective of thier territory, then sneak that armoured division up to Tolkeen without a single person noticing. Or perhaps no scenario where all of Tolkeen's magic stops working the day of an enemy attack. Or perhaps all those people who were stated to be aiding Tolkeen in previous books, mysteriously not showing up anyplace in the series. Don't even get me started on the Coalition being able to sneak spies into a community formed mainly of psychics and magicians.

Yeah, that bothered me, A LOT! :thumbdown

And the way peace broke out with Free Quebec. The alliance with Tolkeen was suspicious but going from at the Coalition's throat to best buds overnight was tres' convenient. I may have to give up on KS writing the great American novel. Fascinating setting, though.

[Doctor Agenda]

That is not a situation which is unique to Rifts.

I've seen D&D games where the GM has tried to make it so that nobody could afford to buy magic items. This concept works fine until a PC gets ready to sell such an item.

Good point.

[Doctor Agenda]

I like that approach. :thumbup:

Gracias. It may be lazy, but I figured it deserved a plot device break. You could even construct a ley line as a huge magic item that can be operated by anyone who meets the qualifications, the perk is a compromise between charging the characters for all the powers or charging it all to the ley line itself. In most other settings, ley lines wouldn't be powerful and versatile enough to justify shenanigans like this.

[Twilight]

And the way peace broke out with Free Quebec. The alliance with Tolkeen was suspicious but going from at the Coalition's throat to best buds overnight was tres' convenient. I may have to give up on KS writing the great American novel. Fascinating setting, though.

True enough. For the record, in my version it would not be an easy win for Tolkeen. Basically as a result of many factors the whole thing becomes a huge mess with neither side looking terribly heroic and things getting worse by the moment. So much worse in fact, that Coake and the folks at Lazlo would be trying to recruit as many heroes as possible to deal with the situation before North America is plunged into another dark age.

Oh yeah and before the dragons of Tolkeen can summon thier dragon god in an attempt to conquer the Earth.

[Oruncrest]

Vampire-fighting question: Anyone know the modifiers for a heart shot? I'm thinking -9 to hit, x2 Bod, x5 Stn, but that's just an educated guess, if there's an 'official' take on the question, I'll use it. What I have here would give an 18 Dex Vamp a DCV of 15 if you were going for the heart. Now I see why Buffy has to beat on them for awhile first, it's a nearly impossible shot unless the vamp is stunned or prone or suprised.
Use the 'Vitals' location: -8 OCV, ×4 STUN, ×2 BODY.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Use the 'Vitals' location: -8 OCV, ×4 STUN, ×2 BODY.

That is also what I suggest. However, in order to simulate getting a good shot to the heart (to solidly stick a stake in there) I require that the character achieve at least an Impairing wound, or it doesn't stick well.

[NuSoardGraphite]

I made tapping Ley Lines a Perk, 10 points for the Line Walker to get to do all their Ley Line tricks like phasing, drifting, healing, transmission, and observation balls. 5 points for the True Atlantean to just be able to phase and take advantage of the usual Ley Line properties any psychic or sorceror can manage. Building them as powers just seemed too complicated, and I pretty much have total control over where they are and can always invoke a ley line storm if I don't want them using one.

?


I like the Perk. Thats probably what I would do, rather than have each Mystic/Psychic to buy the powers associated with Ley Line use.

[Doctor Agenda]

Gracias, both for the Vitals suggestion and the impairing suggestion. Any idea how much damage a stake would do, though? A 1/2d6, up to 1d6+1 with Str? Might be awful hard to score impairing damage. Not necessarily a flaw, traditionally the vamp has to be helpless and you hit the stake a couple of times with a mallet to drive it all the way in. Makes it hard to have a slayer-style fight, though.

[Princedarkstorm]

Wow !

[NuSoardGraphite]

Gracias, both for the Vitals suggestion and the impairing suggestion. Any idea how much damage a stake would do, though? A 1/2d6, up to 1d6+1 with Str? Might be awful hard to score impairing damage. Not necessarily a flaw, traditionally the vamp has to be helpless and you hit the stake a couple of times with a mallet to drive it all the way in. Makes it hard to have a slayer-style fight, though.

Deadly blow with stakes.

There's also Find Weakness and Armor Piercing or Penetrating as a Naked advantage.

[Doctor Agenda]

Excellent suggestion, alas my peeps are facing the vampires on Sunday, so they have to work with the vampire-slaying skills they've already got. One of them is an Escrimador who can Use Art with Blades, I think he could make the shot with his Fast Strike if the Vamp is stunned or prone, and he has a Takedown maneuver to help with that. Another is a Wired Knifeslinger who can probably pull it off if she gets the same opportunity. Actually the heart shot being so difficult makes a good rationale for having to spar with vamps for awhile instead of just staking them right away--as long as the vamp is in top form the heart is too small a moving target to waste an attack on--especially since the vamps in the Bestiary don't take any extra damage from wood, staking a vamp in the thigh won't take you very far.

I think I'll raise the stake's base damage by 1 DC if it's used 2-handed or with a mallet, that'll improve the odds of getting an impairing shot.

[The Main Man]

I think that when I do tackle tolkeen that I might have them begrudgingly ally with free quebec who see the coalition's campaing for unity as a future threat to their independence.

after the war they would become weary trade partners who scratch each other's backs such as tolkeen being requested to aid in the xiticix conflict shortly thereafter.

[Princedarkstorm]

Presumably you didn't hamstring Tolkeen or give the Coalition the ability to pull millions of troops out of thier hindquarters either. At least I hope you didn't.

Did I mention that I really really REALLY hated Tolkeen Wars? The last book in the series was particularly heinous.
I agree it was a rotten book .

[The Main Man]

I agree it was a rotten book .

ahem, set of books, as it soundsanother thing that I am initiating with my group is giving them the chance to make new aliens, demons, monsters, weapons, armor, etc once per month for some xp and personal satisfaction.I did the math and with my average group size of 6 people (1 gm, 5 players) that comes to 60 new creations (not including the gm) a year.yet another reason to like hero.

[Princedarkstorm]

Vampire-fighting question: Anyone know the modifiers for a heart shot? I'm thinking -9 to hit, x2 Bod, x5 Stn, but that's just an educated guess, if there's an 'official' take on the question, I'll use it. What I have here would give an 18 Dex Vamp a DCV of 15 if you were going for the heart. Now I see why Buffy has to beat on them for awhile first, it's a nearly impossible shot unless the vamp is stunned or prone or suprised.
That is great idea .:thumbup:

[Diamond Spear]

Excellent suggestion, alas my peeps are facing the vampires on Sunday, so they have to work with the vampire-slaying skills they've already got. One of them is an Escrimador who can Use Art with Blades, I think he could make the shot with his Fast Strike if the Vamp is stunned or prone, and he has a Takedown maneuver to help with that. Another is a Wired Knifeslinger who can probably pull it off if she gets the same opportunity. Actually the heart shot being so difficult makes a good rationale for having to spar with vamps for awhile instead of just staking them right away--as long as the vamp is in top form the heart is too small a moving target to waste an attack on--especially since the vamps in the Bestiary don't take any extra damage from wood, staking a vamp in the thigh won't take you very far.

I think I'll raise the stake's base damage by 1 DC if it's used 2-handed or with a mallet, that'll improve the odds of getting an impairing shot.

Don’t forget to give your vamps the Vulnerability: x2 BODY from stakes. That will help too.

[Princedarkstorm]

Or the vampires get a 2xstun body from heart shots or wood based attacks .

[Doctor Agenda]

Excellent suggestion, or not have their damage reduction or resistant defenses apply to wooden shots to the heart (-1/4), effectively giving them the appropriate vulnerability.

Or maybe play it as written, where the only thing the stake is good for is keeping the vamp from coming back to 'life' once killed. Vamps have enough trouple with everyone knowing their weakenesses, if I want them to be challenging maybe stake-fighting is an inefficient way to kill vampires, as there are certainly other ways to do more damage in the same amount of time.

Well, there's no law that say they have to all be alike, maybe I'll make each of them a little different in how the stakes work and see how it plays.

I think I'll lower the Int of most of them to 8 and add that 5 points to their claws to reflect that it's a pack 'wild' vampires with more bestial traits. And give the secondary/lesser vamp that leads them the ability to turn people into wild vamps or vampire thralls (ya gotta have vampire thralls) via 'slow bite' (2 or 3d6 Major Transform, no more than once a night, must do the ritual blood sharing same as the greater/master vamp on the final night--not all or nothing in one ceremony like the master).

As you might have guessed, last Sunday got cancelled, so hopefully we will see how it goes tomorrow.

[The Main Man]

I too have expanded/customized vampires.

"Thralls" are emissaries like Renfield, right?

I had never thought of them before, although it is sort of hinted at by the humans who have accepted their vampire masters.

Come to think of it, I like that idea better - cities full of Renfields who militantly support their masters (and I think that one of them shall have to be named Torgo).

Anyways, I did come up with "Ghouls" ala Hellsing, which take orders even from Wild Vampires and can be virtually created on the spot by Masters.

I'll have to post more about them at a later time.