Hero fans' RPG.net code of conduct

[Chris Goodwin]

I've been following the recent controversies on RPG.net, and I think it's time that we the Hero faithful started doing something.

I'm going to preface this by saying that this is mainly going to apply to the fans; Darren, Steve, et al can decide for themselves how they are going to present the company.

I know we have a few RPG.net regulars here (Yamo, Lord Liaden, James Gillen, Monolith if he's still here). I'd like to offer suggestions for those of us who read there, plus anyone who thinks they might want to start.

When a Hero thread starts over there, be positive. Post positively to it. If the poster is asking for advice, offer it freely.

When someone comes and craps in the thread, don't take the bait. Especially don't try to get into a point-by-point refutation of their issues; the Hero haters over there are well known, and there isn't really any need to try to talk them down. Instead, when you see someone actively putting down Hero in a Hero-positive thread, just click the "Report post to moderator" link. Use "Denigrating the game" or "Threadcrapping" or something similar as the reason for reporting the post. Everyone who reads the post should do it (but each reader should report a single post only once). I would strongly advise only doing this for actual crap posts; if they're going to be nice, then there's no reason to report the posts (plus you might get in trouble). On this note, I advise reading RPG.net without an ignore list, because if you ignore someone for being a jerk you won't see their postings and won't be able to report them. (I figure if a single posting gets reported multiple times, their mods can't ignore it.)

Don't engage in personal attacks. That will turn you into a target for RPG.net's moderators. They're known for shooting first and maybe asking questions later, and note that any appeals process they have is biased toward the moderators (they state this explicitly). So don't run afoul of moderation.

Do feel free to start Hero threads over there. Especially actual play threads; I don't think I've ever seen a Hero actual play thread on RPG.net. Try to avoid starting "how would you do X" threads, partly because a better place for them is here, and partly because the general RPG.net reading public doesn't need to see Yet Another Example of a towel or a cereal bowl or similar constructs written up in Hero, nor do we need to feed the reputation that people "need" to build those things in game terms. It's just giving them more ammo. But note that if people do start such threads there, we should respond to them seriously and positively.

[Chris Goodwin]

21 views and no responses? C'mon, everyone. Is it a good idea? Is it crap? Someone's gotta have an opinion.

[Southern Cross]

It seems reasonable enough to me.

[nexus]

I frequent rpg.net and admit to getting mixed up in those flamewars. There's just certain of the Hero haters that are really really good at pushing my buttons, but I'm going to try and ignore them in the future.

[Southern Cross]

Fair enough........

[AlHazred]

Sounds like a plan. How well people adhere, I don't know. There seems to me to be a certain amount of "self-fulfilling rants" on RPG.net. In other words, I'm pretty sure some people post their challenges, then create new accounts to respond in exactly the manner they feel will best fulfill their expectations. Kind of like high-end trolling.

[Haerandir]

Well, I don't spend much time over at RPG.net, but any advice that amounts to "don't get involved in flame wars" gets a thumbs-up from me... I try to avoid it myself, although I've lapsed more than a few times.

Certainly actual play examples might be worthwhile. It seems like there are a lot of people out there who simply don't believe that Hero plays just like any other game. They're so caught up in their prejudices about the character creation system, I sometimes think they've never even thought about the game in any other terms.

[Eosin]

I tend to view that as preaching equality at a clan rally. :)

I visit RPG for the free lancer and the business part of RPGs. I try to avoid the RPG and Tangency forums since I don't play artsy type games and that along with being conservitive seems to invalidate my opinion. :) I am willing to give it a try though but really, why go to a clan rally trying to change hate speach?

I do agree that when you post over there that getting mixed up in a flamer is not a good thing but also sometimes it it difficult to avoid. We just had a big, sometimes nasty thread at ENworld that was much the same. My problem is that if I read them [ignorant critisisms, blakent statements and the like], after awhile I want to roll up my sleeves and wade in swing'n but that just takes up too much of my time and energy that is best spent on the game, here, and on my own website.

[lazarus]

Tangencite, myself. Although I did get mixed up slightly in the PhD thread.

Laz

[zornwil]

I just don't see having time, however, if there is a specific thread that for some odd reason someone thinks I should post or wants to borrow from me, by all means.

[Chris Goodwin]

If you don't have time, that's cool. I'm not asking people to go over there specifically to jump on threads. It's more like, if you're there already why not take the time to try to make the thread a better place.

[nexus]

I would love to see some actual play threads. Just to hopefully dispel some of the myths. Like it does not take 10 hours to run a fight between Wolverine and 4 Friends of Humanity thugs.

[The Horror]

All good advice. I'll start reporting those people instead of filling up my ignore list.


The Horror

[Captain Obvious]

21 views and no responses? C'mon, everyone. Is it a good idea? Is it crap? Someone's gotta have an opinion.

How many points is it worth as a Disad?

[Hyper-Man]

I think the idea is great but I am very new to this type of format. I have been playing HERO and other games since D&D 1st edition but this is actually the first discussion board of any type that I have participated in, and up to this point it has been great.

This medium can be a little tricky when trying to convey the intended tone. In my case I tend to come across a little more serious than I really intend when 'debating' a subject when in most cases I am just trying to help point out common ground where I think I can contribute.

Anyway, If and when I do get on the RPG.net site I will try to follow the suggested 'code' as much as possible.

[Thag13]

Imade a pact with myself not to get involved with flame wars anymore. My blood pressure cant take it anymore.

I am sure there are posters on other hobbies that are more annoying, but darn if I can think of them...

[Lord Mhoram]

I agree, I've been doing that generally myself, institutionalizing the code is a good idea.
The only person I have on my ignore list over there is Alamafeta.

[lemming]

Imade a pact with myself not to get involved with flame wars anymore. My blood pressure cant take it anymore.

I am sure there are posters on other hobbies that are more annoying, but darn if I can think of them...
I've run into a few. ;) There's some tech lists and some other groups that make any of the rpg stuff look tame. Not that it's OK at any time.

[tabascojunkie]

"First of all, you have to be a Hero Gamer for the Hero Gamer's Code to apply to you. And second, the Code's not so much actual rules as it is guidelines. " Sorry, no troll or derail attempt here, I just had to throw that in. My favorite movie of recent years. :thumbup:

[zornwil]

I've run into a few. ;) There's some tech lists and some other groups that make any of the rpg stuff look tame. Not that it's OK at any time.
Generally speaking, I find so-called "professional" boards for engineer-types (whether apps or music studios or the like) seem to have the most obnoxious behavior. I tend to think it's a reflection of the stresses of those jobs plus the dog-eat-dog atmosphere of such.

[palehorse]

I frequent the RPG.net boards regularly, and personally, when the flames start licking at the edges of the thread (although they're often just carpet-bombed in with little or no warning instead) I just walk away... I might lurk on and off for a few days, just to see how ridiculous it's become in the meantime, but it's not worth my time and effort to add to the fracas, even if it's trying to defend a game that I like. (And two of those games, Savage Worlds and, naturally, Hero, seem to catch more than their fair share.)

I guess I have a Zen approach to it:
Q: If a troll screams flames in an unoccupied thread, does it make a sound?
A: Who cares, as long as I don't have to hear it? The louder he yells when no one is listening, the more folks will realize he's just an ass.

[Rene]

Let's try to see the other side too.

Sadly, I've seen too many HERO fans fight rudeness with more rudeness. Commonly you see comments about "morons who can't do basic math", or "D20 has damaged your brain", or something like that. Sarcasm is not the way to impress the guys straddling the fence.

What we need is more polite people able to make sensible arguments about some of HERO System's more controversial points. Problem is, when these guys appear in the thread, it has already devolved into a shouting match.

[zornwil]

Let's try to see the other side too.

Sadly, I've seen too many HERO fans fight rudeness with more rudeness. Commonly you see comments about "morons who can't do basic math", or "D20 has damaged your brain", or something like that. Sarcasm is not the way to impress the guys straddling the fence.

What we need is more polite people able to make sensible arguments about some of HERO System's more controversial points. Problem is, when these guys appear in the thread, it has already devolved into a shouting match.
What "controversial points" and why are you coming to HERO board and bashing OUR system?

:D

I haven't messed with rpg.net. I will say that I found the reception over at the M&M boards last year nice enough and while there was some HERO bashing (particularly noticable as there's some ex-HEROites there) really it wasn't any better/worse than what you see here of other systems. I can't recall if I really chimed in on any of those, I think I did, but it's been a while.

As to in general and rpg.net specfically, good suggestion.

[Chris Goodwin]

Seems like a good time for a bump.

[zornwil]

What makes you say that? :D

I did happen to register and look around over there. Didn't see much but will check back tonight or over the next day or so.

[bblackmoor]

Imade a pact with myself not to get involved with flame wars anymore. My blood pressure cant take it anymore.

Life is too short to go around pissed off all the time.

[trechriron]

I like the idea and if I am over there I agree to abide by the code.

[Chris Goodwin]

Putting the romance back in necromancy. I hate being a bumper, but this thread apparently needs to rise again.

[Chris Goodwin]

Let's try to see the other side too.

Sadly, I've seen too many HERO fans fight rudeness with more rudeness. Commonly you see comments about "morons who can't do basic math", or "D20 has damaged your brain", or something like that. Sarcasm is not the way to impress the guys straddling the fence.

What we need is more polite people able to make sensible arguments about some of HERO System's more controversial points. Problem is, when these guys appear in the thread, it has already devolved into a shouting match.

And, I want to emphasize this post.

Since I wrote the post that started this thread, I took about a yearlong break from RPG.net (from 2005-2006), of my own volition and under my own power. A funny thing happened while I was gone -- actually a couple of funny things. The moderation over there improved, and the atmosphere for Hero threads and discussions improved, a lot. It's been.... nice over there, and cordial, and Hero threads have been incredibly calm as of late.

I'd like us all to help keep it that way.

[incrdbil]

21 views and no responses? C'mon, everyone. Is it a good idea? Is it crap? Someone's gotta have an opinion.

My opinion is that RPG net is a sewer, and I prefer to swim in cleaner waters.

(That doesn't mean everything is crap, but like a sewer, it only takes a certain amount of something to make the general feel undesireable.)

You can behave nicely, but you'll still get the haters, then those that just like to feed the haters for the fun of it, and IMHO, the moderators of RPG net include a certain subset that is biased, unprofessional..and rarely checked in their abuse of their position.

Please, don't get me wrong, your code is a good idea in terms of minimizing damage control, but I'd still caution those going over there nto to ever expect a positive, receptive, or tolerant environment to HERO..or pretty much anything else besides a handful of rpg net favored games. You'll be walking into a mudslinging match, and your best attempts to appear positive, calm, and rational while promoting useful conversation won't meet with much appreciation, and it'll generate reactions you don't deserve. If its worth getting to the gamers out there who are open minded (and there are such gamers there, I'd even say they form a very sizeable portion of the posters) then by all means do so. But go with a thick skin, and low expectations.

[Lord Liaden]

The overall RPGnet community does appear to have a higher percentage of, ahem, uncivil posters than this community does, and the flame wars do tend to burn hotter; but over the last few years HERO has become as accepted as most other games there, and no longer generates the automatic vitriol it once did. And I agree with Chris that moderation on RPGnt has become both more rigorous and more balanced (although biases definitely persist).

[Tasha]

The overall RPGnet community does appear to have a higher percentage of, ahem, uncivil posters than this community does, and the flame wars do tend to burn hotter; but over the last few years HERO has become as accepted as most other games there, and no longer generates the automatic vitriol it once did. And I agree with Chris that moderation on RPGnt has become both more rigorous and more balanced (although biases definitely persist).

The atmosphere is better here mostly due to the use of the Banhammer. Which eventually smashes all of the hotheads. Though with 6e amnesty we may see some of our old hotheads come back. Time will tell if they will be able to stay civil.

Tasha

[NestorDRod]

Coming in late to this thread, due to not having seen it before.

The one fallacy I see in the OP's suggestion is that it assumes logical responsible action in the part of the moderators. From the stories I've heard about RPG.net, the mods are as much part of the problem as the posters themselves, so I wouldn't expect much help from that direction.

You gotta realize, most mods are selected based on their level of participation in the forums, so whatever the average personality of the participants is, it's not that far-fetched to assume the mods are like that, but more so.