No Hero Licences???

[Tclynch]

Here is the word on new stuff from Guardians of Order-

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

Guelph, Ontario
18 March 2003

Contact: Mark C. MacKinnon, President

THE AUTHORITY AND STORMWATCH ROLE-PLAYING GAMES BY GUARDIANS OF ORDER

Guardians Of Order, Inc. announced today that it will publish a role-playing game line based on the two critically acclaimed comic book series The Authority and StormWatch. The Authority core rulebook will debut in spring 2004, with supplements following throughout the year. The Authority and StormWatch are published by WildStorm Productions, an imprint of DC Comics.

"The Authority is undoubtedly one of the best new super hero comics published in recent years," said Guardians Of Order President, Mark C. MacKinnon, "building on the dynamic and gripping universe created in StormWatch. We are thrilled by the opportunity to bring Jack Hawksmoor, the Midnighter, Apollo, Jenny Sparks, the Engineer, Swift, the Doctor, and the entire Authority/StormWatch universe to the gaming table using our popular Tri-Stat System mechanics. Rife with hidden agendas, godlike powers, and nearly unstoppable opponents, this comic universe provides the perfect playground for super hero RPG enthusiasts."

"As a long time fan and gamer, I'm personally thrilled and anxiously looking forward to an Authority/StormWatch RPG game," said Jim Lee, Editorial Director -- WildStorm. "Given these books' hard hitting, edgy approach to characters and plotlines, I'm sure this RPG will be unlike any other and open the door for gamers to direct and experience their own all-new, over the top adventures."

StormWatch is the United Nations Special Crisis Intervention Team, comprised of superhuman beings from around the globe, under the control of Henry Bendix, the Weatherman. From its beginning as a frustrated police force, StormWatch changes over the years into a proactive arm of global stability. StormWatch Prime deals with superhuman threats in hotwar situations; StormWatch Red is charged with deterrent display and retaliation; and StormWatch Black handles covert insertion in this time of urban, low intensity warfare. Their foes range from terrorists, to aliens, to superpowered revolutionaries -- the outcome is only the fate of the world.

The Authority rose from the ashes of StormWatch, yet was something brand new. The Authority introduces "widescreen" superheroics to comics, where supervillains do not hold back; they fly across the world in droves, devastating cities beneath them … until the Authority can act, changing things for the better. The Authority is a group of immensely powerful heroes, with bold vision, and a no-holds-barred attitude. They are masked adventurers with an agenda, and no reason to maintain the status quo. The threats they face literally run off the charts, threatening nations, civilizations, and even humanity itself.

Founded in 1997, Guardians Of Order, Inc. is a Canadian publishing company specializing in Japanese anime and superheroic role-playing games, and licensed resource and reference books. In addition to their Origins Award-nominated Big Eyes, Small Mouth RPG, they publish licensed anime fan guides and RPGs for Trigun, Hellsing, and Fushigi Yugi, as well as the upcoming Slayers and Revolutionary Girl Utena. They also produce the critically acclaimed superhero RPG, Silver Age Sentinels. In late 2003, they will debut an RPG line based on George R. R. Martin's epic fantasy novel series, A Song of Ice and Fire. Guardians Of Order is headquartered in Guelph, Ontario. For more information, contact Guardians Of Order at info@guardiansorder.com, or visit the company's website at www.guardiansorder.com.

DC Comics, a division of Warner Bros. an AOL Time Warner Company, is the largest English-language publisher of comics in the world and home to such iconic characters as Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman and the Sandman. These DC super heroes and others have starred in comic books, movies, television series (both animated and live-action) and cyberspace, thrilling audiences of all ages for generations. DC Comics' Web site is located at www.dccomics.com.

StormWatch and The Authority are ™ & © 2003 WildStorm Productions, an imprint of DC Comics. All Rights Reserved.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark C. MacKinnon
President
Guardians Of Order, Inc.
and Mutants& Masterminds will have a licenced setting out later this year!

[Monolith]

That's good for them, and in the long run good for us too. It is not that hard to convert Tri-Stat over to Hero. :)

While I like to see licensed material, I have a much bigger desire to see DOJ expand the Hero Universe material over wasting time, energy, and money putting out books that are cool to look at, but have no real signifigance to my game. Sure it would be great to see "official" stats for Superman or Samaritan, but ultimately I do not think they would be used in my game for anything besides decoration.

Now what would be cool to me is to see a Hero Universe comic book. 3-4 issue arcs with the Champions, then 3-4 issues with the Sentinels, then 3-4 with the Justice Squadron, ect. That would be much more entertaining than buying the Authority World book. I might just be strange though. :)

[mattingly]

I can see the next HeroMan ad now...

Timmy: "Gee, HeroMan, how come you don't license other companies' creations?"
HeroMan: "Because we license your imagination, Timmy! You don't have to use someone else's characters -- make your own, any way that you want."
Timmy: "Gosh!"

Seriously, though, that's great news for GOO.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Originally posted by Monolith
That's good for themWell, maybe. Licences have been the bane of an awful lot of companies too, though. The gang at GOO seem like nice guys. I'd hate to see this ultimately turn out to be an albatross around their necks....

[misterdeath]

I seem to remember something about a Witchblade game from someone a while back. Wonder where those Cybergames people are now?

From what I hear, licenced properties can be a PINTA (Pain IN The ...) depending on the company involved.

I hope that GOO has the manpower to devote to the product line, and keep putting out other stuff.

D

[Monolith]

Originally posted by Derek Hiemforth
Well, maybe. Licences have been the bane of an awful lot of companies too, though. The gang at GOO seem like nice guys. I'd hate to see this ultimately turn out to be an albatross around their necks....
I think the GOO folks have had plenty of experience with licenses; they seem to have done plenty of anime licenses anyway. I am sure it will turn out fine for them. Mark seems like a smart cookie, and GOO apparantly has enough cashflow to make it work financially. I will buy the material, and I will enjoy reading it, but then it will get filed away with everything else I buy but never play. :)

[Grymlynn]

Yeah, what DID happen to that WitchBlade stuff? I understood that it was done, so it should have gone to DOJ during the purchase, right? Whahappen?

[CleverName]

I do think that hero would make more sales if their products had a less, well, industrial feel - let's face it M&M and SAS rulebooks _look_ more like comic books than FReD.

BUT...

I don't know if those increased sales would convert to more cash in their pockets.

In the same vein, buying and maintaining licenses for stuff like the Authority takes off another layer of profit, per book. (On top of full-color layout, etc.)

It still might win for them in the long run. I'm sure GoO _thinks_ they can hook fans with one of these licensed titles, and then sell them higher-profit titles that they own outright, like SAS.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Originally posted by CleverName
I do think that hero would make more sales if their products had a less, well, industrial feel - let's face it M&M and SAS rulebooks _look_ more like comic books than FReD.Well, in fairness, FReD isn't supposed to look like a comic book. The HERO System isn't just for supers. But I understand what you're saying, and you're right: they do have a slicker, more eye-catching look.

Now the downside...

DOJ has published roughly twice as much material (in terms of page count) as has been published for SAS and M&M. And that's counting SAS d20 and SAS Tri-Stat separately. If you only count SAS once, then it's almost three times as much.

Eye candy is nice, but I buy RPG books for their content. I'd personally much rather have two or three times as much substance, even if it means skimping a bit on the style. (By which I basically only mean color... I think the artwork that's been done for 5th Edition is just as good as The Other Guys') :)

[CleverName]

Originally posted by Derek Hiemforth
Well, in fairness, FReD isn't supposed to look like a comic book. The HERO System isn't just for supers. But I understand what you're saying, and you're right: they do have a slicker, more eye-catching look.

Now the downside...

DOJ has published roughly twice as much material (in terms of page count) as has been published for SAS and M&M. And that's counting SAS d20 and SAS Tri-Stat separately. If you only count SAS once, then it's almost three times as much.

I agree with you.


Eye candy is nice, but I buy RPG books for their content. I'd personally much rather have two or three times as much substance, even if it means skimping a bit on the style. (By which I basically only mean color... I think the artwork that's been done for 5th Edition is just as good as The Other Guys') :)

Yep, color would be better.

The only real danger I see for HERO is missing out on those first sales to folks who want to try a superhero game -- and the possiblity that those gamers will stay with GoO rather than go to a (superior) system. I think the size of FReD and the breadth of the HERO rulesystem is already a hurdle for some folks.

(Believe me I don't see this as a "Sky is falling" scenario!)

I really liked a lot of the art in 5th too. My guess it that a lot of the original work for 5th was color - l'd like to see more of that. (Other than what's shown up on the web page.

[Maelstrom]

Eye candy is nice, but I buy RPG books for their content. I'd personally much rather have two or three times as much substance, even if it means skimping a bit on the style. (By which I basically only mean color... I think the artwork that's been done for 5th Edition is just as good as The Other Guys') :)

Hear, hear! We love FReD! The M&M books are beautiful, but shallow, the supermodels of SuperGaming.

I bought them anyway, because, y'know, I love supermodels.

But I'm married to HERO.

[Lord Liaden]

Well, licenses are expensive. If your financial expectations are matched by the license's performance you may make quite a bit of money, but if they aren't you're out whatever licensing fee you had to pay up front.

GOO has publicly acknowledged that their SAS line has not sold as well as some of their other stuff. I'm concerned that they're banking heavily on their upcoming Authority sourcebook to revitalize their superhero game, but it's premature to count on strong sales from it.

I'm also struck by the fact that Green Ronin has stated that those beautiful color Mutants and Masterminds books, despite strong sales, have not been making much money for the company, and in one case is even losing money. Cost of printing those books domestically is one reason cited, although no-one at GR has called them too expensive.

When I look at the performance of Hero Games since DOJ took over, it's hard for me to complain too loudly about their strategy. They're publishing lots of books on a regular, reliable schedule, which was recently increased by 50%. They were able to hire another full-time creative employee. Industry buzz indicates that their share of the market is increasing. They've concentrated on producing well-written books without a lot of flash, which seems to help keep their prices reasonable. Hero Games gives the impression of being a solid performer who's growing. And they're doing it without pursuing licensed properties.

[Diashan]

I've got to agree with Derek. I would much rather have the substance than the flash. The DOJ universe is pretty good considering the few years it's been in development. Besides between online sites and the discussion boards you can create just about any comic book character you want, a little work but you can usally even improve the characters while your at it.



Diashan

[Lord Mhoram]

DOJ has published roughly twice as much material (in terms of page count) as has been published for SAS and M&M. And that's counting SAS d20 and SAS Tri-Stat separately. If you only count SAS once, then it's almost three times as much.


Yeah. Superhero only, Ignoring liscences -

Looking at books:
Champions - Hero 5th, Champions, CU, CKC, MC, USPDB, Battlegrounds, VIPER, UNTIL, STAST, G&G, GC (12 books)

SAS - Core book (pick one), Roll Call 1, 2, 3, Emergency Responce 1, files of Matthew Genetech, Criminal Intent, Shields of Justice (8 books, with half of them 32 page saddlebound)

M&M - Core book, Time of Crisis, Freedom City, Crooks, Annual (5 books) - And if you include the major print superlink books Omlevex and Algernon files that brings it up to 7. And of those one of them is the worst villian book since European enemies (Crooks), conversly Algernon files is likely the best superhero NPC book I have ever read.

To be honest I don't mind the other stuff coming in a little slower, it lets me buy it all- I look at all superhero roleplaying as support for my Champions game. :sneaky:

[Teflon Billy]

I'm also struck by the fact that Green Ronin has stated that those beautiful color Mutants and Masterminds books, despite strong sales, have not been making much money for the company, and in one case is even losing money. Cost of printing those books domestically is one reason cited, although no-one at GR has called them too expensive.
What are the cost advantages of printing overseas and importing the books to the domestic market? Is it really that different a margin?

I'd figure publishing would be one of the few markets that domestic production would still have an advantage, owing to the level of automation in printing and the abundance of raw materials that are produced locally.

TB

[Steve Long]

What are the cost advantages of printing overseas and importing the books to the domestic market? Is it really that different a margin?

It's a significant difference. Even allowing for shipping and customs costs, printing in China or Thailand is usually much cheaper than printing in the US or Canada.

But it also takes a lot more time, and there are more opportunities throughout the whole process for something to go wrong or get delayed.

[Blue]

I'm surprised. DC has always made it a point to license their entire product for use with RPGs. I believe this is the first time they've allowed a license for another RPG that isn't a "DC Universe RPG". This kind of signals that they have no immediate intent to publish another DC RPG anytime soon.

[Lord Mhoram]

I'm surprised. DC has always made it a point to license their entire product for use with RPGs. I believe this is the first time they've allowed a license for another RPG that isn't a "DC Universe RPG". This kind of signals that they have no immediate intent to publish another DC RPG anytime soon.

Yes, but the Authority is, thankfully, not part of the DCU*. They are a Wilstrom imprint IIRC. They treat thier owner created / outside the universe imprints differently than the rest.
And there was also a Batman RPG, which was a tweaked version of the then current MEGS version of the DC game.



* Yes, I detest the Authority.

[buzz]

Licenses are silly, and I'm pretty happy that DOJ doesn't seem to be interested in pursuing any.

Why? IMO, there are only a tiny handfull of licenses that are any kind of bankable draw: Star Wars, Trek, DC, Marvel, Buffy/Angel, Harry Potter, and LOTR. You could maybe add the Matrix, too, and all things Cthulhu. Anything beyond that and you're in the genre ghetto, and whatever draw your property has isn't going to be much better than the draw of a non-D&D RPG in general. It can even be *less* of a draw in some cases. E.g., I've bought pretty much every single M&M product... except for Nocturnals; I've never read the comics, so I have no immediate desire to get it, despite the excellent reviews.

Sure, if DOJ were to happen upon a cool license and it was a sweet deal --say, the author of some hip book or TV show happened to be a HERO fan-- then heck, why not? Otherwise, I'm glad to see them concentrate on writing great products and not chasing the elusive "lucrative license".

[buzz]

:Thinks a bit:

Granted, I did buy the Hellboy RPG, even though I don't really play GURPS. I figured it would be a good sourcebook for converting to HERO. :)