Mac OSX: Houston, We Have A Problem

[Simon]

OK...just wanted to give folks an update on where the OSX installer is at:

I've got the installer created and it does work, but there are some issues with the 1.4.1 release of Java for OSX. Several things don't work the way they should.

Some are reasonably minor....some are pretty bad.

Things that I've seen so far:

1. The launcher does not work. The app still has to be manually launched.....which kinda defeats the purpose of a Mac OSX installer.

2. Mac's Java seems to have periodic problems with repainting the screen. If you start up the app and then create a new character, the screen won't be repainted until you resize the app (forcing a redraw of the screen's components). I believe that this is likely a problem with the way Java is double buffering the onscreen components....or rather, a problem in the way Apple implemented this double buffering process.

3. The preview functionality does not work on some of the systems tested, as it defaults to Mozilla for a browser, which many do not have.

4. Mac's Java does not like redirecting the standard output (and standard error), which prevents the trace.log file from being populated (everything is just sent to the console).

There were a few other minor issues noted....but these are the major ones.

I'll be continuing to work on the code to see if I can find a workaround for some/all of these....but it's going to be slow, since I don't have an OSX box of my own to play with.

[Jade]

what might you need for a box? Where are you?

[Simon]

I'm in Chicago. I'm working with a few people for testing now, so we will (hopefully) be able to get the issues worked out soon.

[Jade]

OK,

If you were closer to me,I was going to see if I could come up with an old iMac for ya to use for awhile...

Thanks for keeping us posted.

[DocMan]

Thanks for the update.

I'm guessing you're going to want to work out most of the bugs with the installer before talking to us about how the program will be distributed?

Doc

[Simon]

Yup....especially since the distribution of the program is going to be up to Hero Games (not me) ;)

I'll keep you posted as we make progress....

[Catseye]

Dan,

I'm an apple developer anmd so have their ear on bugs. I have already subm,itted a bug on the initial redraw problem. I pointed them at HeroDesigner as an example and pointed them at your post at the top, suggesting that they see abotu contcting you if they'd like to debug using your program.

Let me know if theres any other way you'ld like me to kick them :)

Catseye

[BenKimball]

I've also noticed that under 1.4.1, Powers windows will occasionally fail to close. For example, I select Energy Blast, then select Add Modifier, then Reduced Endurance, then click OK in the Power window. The Power is added to my character but the Power window stays open and cannot be closed. It remains frontmost, so I have to drag it off of the screen to be able to continue working on the character. It closes without complaint when I quit the app, and does not reopen when I relaunch.

The other day I had a good half-dozen windows dragged off of the screen at one point.

Anyone else seen this? Mac OS 10.2.4, Java 1.4.1, HD update.jar v1.22.

Cheers.
Ben

[Simon]

Yup...Until Apple fixes their Java distro, there's not too much that I can do.

The folks that are competent enough to deal with the issues that Apple's Java has are also more than capable enough of using the instructions on this forum for installing to Mac with the existing installers.....Creating Mac installers will just frustrate folks at this point.

[DocMan]

Originally posted by dsimon
Yup...Until Apple fixes their Java distro, there's not too much that I can do.

The folks that are competent enough to deal with the issues that Apple's Java has are also more than capable enough of using the instructions on this forum for installing to Mac with the existing installers.....Creating Mac installers will just frustrate folks at this point.

In other words, if you've been waiting for a Mac OS X version to come out before buying HD. Stop waiting, it's not going to happen. But you can figure out how to install the Java yourself. Is that about right?

Doc

[Simon]

Originally posted by DocMan
In other words, if you've been waiting for a Mac OS X version to come out before buying HD. Stop waiting, it's not going to happen. But you can figure out how to install the Java yourself. Is that about right?

Doc

Not quite. A Mac installer will happen eventually, but I have no way of knowing how long it's going to be. It probably won't be anytime in the next month, but after that is anybody's guess.

[BlackCobra]

If you need any extra help with testing -- let me know. I have a variety of macs to test on. And you may remember me from the beta test of HD.

(Email jbsander@skidmore.edu)

[Ben Seeman]

Originally posted by DocMan
Thanks for the update.

I'm guessing you're going to want to work out most of the bugs with the installer before talking to us about how the program will be distributed?

Doc

The MAC installer, once available, will be sold like any of the other installers. You will either buy it as a download or buy the CD which will contain the WIN, Solaris, Linux and MAC installers.

[DocMan]

Originally posted by Ben Seeman
The MAC installer, once available, will be sold like any of the other installers. You will either buy it as a download or buy the CD which will contain the WIN, Solaris, Linux and MAC installers.

THAT's what I've been trying to get someone to say. My primary computer is a Mac. While I'd like to get my hands on HD, I don't want to buy it twice for the privilege. So I cannot buy the CD until the Mac installer becomes a reality.

Doc

[Simon]

Originally posted by DocMan
THAT's what I've been trying to get someone to say. My primary computer is a Mac. While I'd like to get my hands on HD, I don't want to buy it twice for the privilege. So I cannot buy the CD until the Mac installer becomes a reality.

Doc

It's not going to happen for some time. I'm stuck until Apple fixes their Java distro, which, judging by the time it took them to release Java2 1.4.1, will not happen quickly.

Your best bet is either to run it under VirtualPC, or to follow the directions contained in the other threads on this forum to transfer a windows installation over to a Mac. A warning on the latter is that there will still be some display issues when you do this....

[BenKimball]

Keep in mind that once Apple has fixed their Java implementation and Dan has his installer ready, then you'll be able to use the version you buy today on your Mac without the problems we're currently experiencing (which are mostly cosmetic display issues and haven't prevented me from using the software at all).

In short, I don't see any reason why you'd need to buy HD twice. So why wait?

Cheers!
Ben

[AlbertDeschesne]

Originally posted by BenKimball
Keep in mind that once Apple has fixed their Java implementation and Dan has his installer ready, then you'll be able to use the version you buy today on your Mac without the problems we're currently experiencing (which are mostly cosmetic display issues and haven't prevented me from using the software at all).

In short, I don't see any reason why you'd need to buy HD twice. So why wait?

Cheers!
Ben

If you do have access to a Windows machine to install it on (Don't use VPC unless you own it, it sucks and is too expensive), you can easily transfer it to your OSX machine (I just realized calling it a Mac is like calling a windows machine a Dell, we're mostly talking OSes here). And Ben or even I can help you with the minor troubleshooting that may crop up. Buy it now and get the MAC installer later when 2.0 comes out, that's what I intend to do.

[DocMan]

Guys... Ben Just said that the only way to get the Mac Installer (when it is finally written) is to buy HD in either download form, or CD.

So if I buy the CD once to use on a PC or under VPC, I have to buy it a second time if I want to use the Mac Installer.

If I buy the CD now, there is no way for me to get the Mac Installer later without paying for HD all over again.

No one is going to give me the Mac Installer for free if I go ahead and buy the CD now.

Doc

[BenKimball]

My point is simply that you don't need the Mac installer, neither now nor later, so long as you can extract the download (that is, have a PC or emulator to run the Windows .exe, or StuffIt Expander for the Linux version, presumably).

Cheers!
Ben

[keithcurtis]

Originally posted by BenKimball
My point is simply that you don't need the Mac installer, neither now nor later, so long as you can extract the download (that is, have a PC or emulator to run the Windows .exe, or StuffIt Expander for the Linux version, presumably).

Cheers!
Ben

Not everybody has the understanding or expertise to transfer files like that. Some can only point, click and pray.

Keith "There's another platform besides Mac?!?" Curtis

[Derek Hiemforth]

Originally posted by keithcurtis
Not everybody has the understanding or expertise to transfer files like that. Some can only point, click and pray. I think what Ben and Albert have been saying is that they'll show folks exactly what they need to do. You don't need the expertise yourself... they'll lend you their expertise in the form of directions to follow. :)