Potential tag problem; questions

[Trailblazer]

Dan,

I hope you had a great vacation!

Here are some hopefully quick questions:

The container LEAPING_SECONDARY_NONCOMBAT_NUMBER seems to be outputing incorrect values in some cases, particularly when a character has secondary STR. As an example, check out Defender from Champions. If you need more specifics, let me know.
Martial Arts maneuvers with NND damage don't show a secondary damage value when a character has secondary STR; all others do. Is this expected?
With Normal Characteristic Maxima turned on, the maximum value for Running should normally be 10". The double cost is enforced if Running is bought from the Characteristics tab but not if bought from the Powers tab. Is this the correct behavior?
Thanks!
Daryl

[Simon]

1. I need more specifics....it seems to be working fine when I try it.


2. That is correct. Check the UMA for rules on NND maneuvers.


3. Powers are unaffected by Normal Characteristic Maxima.

[Trailblazer]

1. I need more specifics....it seems to be working fine when I try it.
I've attached a set of files that illustrate and reproduce what I'm seeing. In this case, LEAPING_SECONDARY_NONCOMBAT_NUMBER is outputting the same number as LEAPING_PRIMARY_NONCOMBAT_NUMBER, though they should be different. I've also seen cases where the two are different; it's inconsistent. But I haven't yet seen a case where the secondary number is correct according to my calculations.

The key on the character sheet is the first line for Leaping in the Character Notes section on the left, which is just the normal leaping numbers converted into meters. They display fine in the Movement section with the original containers, so the problem seems to be with the new secondary _NUMBER container.



2. That is correct. Check the UMA for rules on NND maneuvers.
3. Powers are unaffected by Normal Characteristic Maxima.
Good enough. At the risk of stating the obvious, then, #3 has implications when creating Heroic non-human races -- one can purchase Characteristics, including Running, Leaping, and Swimming, as Powers if one wants to give the race a higher NCM base-level than normal races have without manually modifying the template files. The corollary is that one shouldn't buy them as Powers unless that is specifically what one wants to do. That's interesting to note.

Thanks!
Daryl

[Simon]

I've attached a set of files that illustrate and reproduce what I'm seeing. In this case, LEAPING_SECONDARY_NONCOMBAT_NUMBER is outputting the same number as LEAPING_PRIMARY_NONCOMBAT_NUMBER, though they should be different. I've also seen cases where the two are different; it's inconsistent. But I haven't yet seen a case where the secondary number is correct according to my calculations.

The key on the character sheet is the first line for Leaping in the Character Notes section on the left, which is just the normal leaping numbers converted into meters. They display fine in the Movement section with the original containers, so the problem seems to be with the new secondary _NUMBER container. Ah....now I see what you're looking at.

Leaping is extremely screwed up, just going by the rules alone.....it's not like the other movement Powers (you can have 1/2 inches of Leaping, you have different values for upwards or forwards and can purchase each individually, etc.).

Do not use the movement tags for Leaping. Use the characteristic tags. This will give you the primary and secondary number.

In the current interim build, I've inserted LEAPING_PRIMARY_NUMBER and LEAPING_SECONDARY_NUMBER for your convenience. These will give you integer values for the primary and secondary forward leap.



Good enough. At the risk of stating the obvious, then, #3 has implications when creating Heroic non-human races -- one can purchase Characteristics, including Running, Leaping, and Swimming, as Powers if one wants to give the race a higher NCM base-level than normal races have without manually modifying the template files. The corollary is that one shouldn't buy them as Powers unless that is specifically what one wants to do. That's interesting to note.

Thanks!
Daryl That's the way the rules are meant to work, according to Steve. Characteristic Powers are <i>not</i> Characteristics (as I keep saying). They operate under different rules and are not affected by NCM.

[Trailblazer]

In the current interim build, I've inserted LEAPING_PRIMARY_NUMBER and LEAPING_SECONDARY_NUMBER for your convenience. These will give you integer values for the primary and secondary forward leap.
I've changed my export template to use these containers. However, the secondary is still showing the same as the primary. Also, these were already listed previously in the export tags document. Were they duplicated, were they replaced, or have they always been the same? :) I've attached the (slightly) modified template so you can see if I changed it correctly.



That's the way the rules are meant to work, according to Steve. Characteristic Powers are not Characteristics (as I keep saying). They operate under different rules and are not affected by NCM.
Absolutely, it's perfectly fine with me (and I did hear you before :)). It's just that I just caught on to the implications of adding Running, Leaping, and Swimming as Characteristics versus adding them as Powers; for some reason, that never clicked before.