Now that I've seen Reality Storm

[Michael Hopcroft]

Now that I have a copy of Reality Storm, i was intrigued by the idea of a medled Millanium City/Empire City Universe.

One villain that comes to mind as someone who would be very interesting to pit agianst some Champions characters is Janus. janus is just plain creepy -- a sadistic serial killer who "hunts masks" -- seeks out supers or other crimefighters and tries to destroy them in mind and body. Without any superpowers at all, he almost brought down the Sentinel, has evaded capture for twenty years with innumerable murders of his head, and is in general the sort of villain who worms his way into your brain and stays there. The sort of villain that even heroes with a CAK might want to see dead, dead, dead.

Mister Matthews is another villain who might fit well opposing Champions characters, with his obsessive hatred of all things superhuman and his incredible skills with genetic engineering.

Then there's Bloody Mary. Not only could she give the Champions a run for their money, but she can creep out just about any group of PCs she encounters no matter what their power level, and her unholy interest in children makes her the sort of villain players would take pleasure in thwarting. What could be more rewarding than rescusing a hundred children?

On the CU side, there are a ton of villains who might pose problems for the Guard. Menton, who is so devastatingly powerful I'm surprised he isn't controlling every mind on Earth already, would be a potent adversary for the Guard, whose lack of a mentalist could prove lethal. I don;t know if the SAS Mid Control attribute GOES that high. Masquerade may be one of the deadliest villains in any superhero RPG, simply because it can appear to be ANYBODY. And how horrifying would it be for Mother Raven to have to face the Crowns of Krim.

[death tribble]

Any idea when it is supposed to hit the shops ?

I have seen nothing about release in Britain yet.

[JJR]

Any idea when it is supposed to hit the shops ?

I have seen nothing about release in Britain yet.
I cannot speak for Britain but I have had a copy since last Friday, so it is out there.

[Lord Liaden]

Any idea when it is supposed to hit the shops ?

I have seen nothing about release in Britain yet.

Since Michael claims to have a copy, it would seem that it's already in Oregon. (*%#! US west coast always gets the cool stuff first. :mad: ) So, spill the beans, Mr. H... what's your impression of the adventure? How does the translation matrix work?

As for the impact of the book, I'm frankly hoping that it'll be a shot in the arm for SAS, which has been kind of languishing in terms of new product and fan interest. If the trans matrix is top-notch, this could open up our copious Champions support products to SAS players; good for HERO sales, obviously, but SAS is a fine game with a lot of potential use for Champs players, and more interest could stimulate more product from GOO.

Personally I have several characters from the world of Empire City that I look forward to plundering. In particular, my campaign world could use a good Superman riff like Sentinel. :)

[death tribble]

I like Alice, Bloody Mary and Phoenix

[JJR]

SAS does not have many villains for its game yet. There are only about 40 villains published in 3 roll calls and 1 criminal intent book. There are not a great deal of choices for a champions game. The villains from the SAS book are the most interesting characters in the SAS world. Kreuzritter, Janus, Iron Duke, Bloody Mary, and Jade Naga are the characters I would uses from SAS.

[Hermit]

Oooo... the waiting is torture, but it will be over soon, yes... soon. Mwhahahaha!

[Agent X]

Since Michael claims to have a copy, it would seem that it's already in Oregon. (*%#! US west coast always gets the cool stuff first. :mad: ) So, spill the beans, Mr. H... what's your impression of the adventure? How does the translation matrix work?

As for the impact of the book, I'm frankly hoping that it'll be a shot in the arm for SAS, which has been kind of languishing in terms of new product and fan interest. If the trans matrix is top-notch, this could open up our copious Champions support products to SAS players; good for HERO sales, obviously, but SAS is a fine game with a lot of potential use for Champs players, and more interest could stimulate more product from GOO.

Personally I have several characters from the world of Empire City that I look forward to plundering. In particular, my campaign world could use a good Superman riff like Sentinel. :)I think they need to "clean up" their format. I don't like it. The only thing I've bought is the Cheapskate Edition but, looking through their other stuff, it's not a format that works for me. Some of their stuff looks good but they need to be more selective or throw more content down in their books.

[Just A Guy Name]

SAS does not have many villains for its game yet. There are only about 40 villains published in 3 roll calls and 1 criminal intent book. There are not a great deal of choices for a champions game. The villains from the SAS book are the most interesting characters in the SAS world. Kreuzritter, Janus, Iron Duke, Bloody Mary, and Jade Naga are the characters I would uses from SAS.Don't forget the roughly two dozen write-ups from Emergency Response and Matthews GenTech. Many of the critters from that latter are just monsters, and most of the rest are Sidekicks (more or less), though some are quite powerful. The enhanced version of Monty is a good surprise villain to spring on players. And if the generally poorer artwork (and lack of tie-ins and throwaways present in the SAS corebook and, to a lesser extent, CI and SoJ) diminishes the appeal of the characters from the Roll Calls somewhat; still, a lot of them have good potential as NPCs, with just a bit of polish;) Scream Queen (from RC1) and Bullet Time (RC2) are just two of my favourites.

[Enforcer84]

Will they be selling Reality Storm at the Hero Store?

[Steve Long]

Will they be selling Reality Storm at the Hero Store?

We will be after the usual one-month delay.

[Metaphysician]

I used to be big on SAS, but frankly, the Champions Universe setting is far better. The only thing SAS has going for it is better iconic heroes, and thats only applicable because Champions doesn't yet really *have* any iconic heroes statted and bioed.

[Blue]

I can only give the typical preliminary thumbs up (as I'm entrenched in the Ultimate Brick right now), but I like what I've seen in Reality Storm. Darren seems to have done a great job. I was worried because following the initial hype it got so quiet.

All plot and background aside, it's worth it just to have the SAS villains statted out in the back for Hero.

[Lord Liaden]

I used to be big on SAS, but frankly, the Champions Universe setting is far better. The only thing SAS has going for it is better iconic heroes, and thats only applicable because Champions doesn't yet really *have* any iconic heroes statted and bioed.

Agreed. Except now, thanks to Reality Storm... we have theirs. :nya:

Although, in the pages of Digital Hero, we have been getting more "iconic" heroes, such as the rosters of the Sentinels and the Fabulous Five. I suspect we'll see most of those characters collected in Champions sourcebooks one day. :)

[Hermit]

I'm sure I've asked this before, but assuming plot and rationalization permit, is anyone else considering making crossover between "alternate game worlds" more common in their campaigns? Not casual like a commute to work, but still... :)

[Sketchpad]

I have had a few for years :) Back in the mid 80s, a friend and I would have a yearly crossover event. We were running 5 superhero games at the time: Champions, V&V, DC Heroes, MSH & Heroes Unlimited. Within each campaign, the players formed a group that had the same name in each dimension. So, we would have the characters meet the alternate universe teams to battle a threat to all of their universe.
To do this, we would pick a system and convert the characters over, usually it was a fast system because we were dealing with over 20 characters. Each player controlled one of their own characters when they split into smaller, mixed teams and battled elements of the big bad guy. It kind of worked out like "JSA/JLA team-up meets the Crisis meets Cosmic Odessey meets Secret Wars". At the end of one, two PCs died and a few members from another dimension's team replaced them ... it was always quite fun :)

[Just A Guy Name]

I used to be big on SAS, but frankly, the Champions Universe setting is far better. The only thing SAS has going for it is better iconic heroes, and thats only applicable because Champions doesn't yet really *have* any iconic heroes statted and bioed.DGNED I disagree wholeheartedly with the sentiment in your first sentence. Though I like both systems, the Empire City setting is more approachable (from a player standpoint) and relevant (from a character standpoint) (partly due to it's similarity to RW Earth), than the Champions Universe. The CU, esp. in the current edition, suffers in comparison due to the "crowded" feeling it imparts: Kinda like the Pre-Crisis DCU, where the setting is top-heavy with big playas. JMHO
OTOH, you're right about the iconic heroes. To me, this comes back to the setting: Because extra care was devoted to integrating the characters from the SAS corebook into the EC background, they just have more of a "3-D" feel to them.
Heh, I'll probably return to this later..but my mailman just dropped off a VERY important package {Woo-Hoo! Reality Storm at last!:) )

[Metaphysician]

Agreed. Except now, thanks to Reality Storm... we have theirs. :nya:

Although, in the pages of Digital Hero, we have been getting more "iconic" heroes, such as the rosters of the Sentinels and the Fabulous Five. I suspect we'll see most of those characters collected in Champions sourcebooks one day. :)

With decent point totals this time, I hope. *grumble*grumble*

Actually, if I were to import heroes, I'd rather import the Freedom League from Freedom City. While the Guard are good iconic heroes, several of them have ties to either historical events or other characters that would be difficult to either sever or transfer ( and I don't *want* to bring over any of the corebook villains, or at least any of the White Rooks ).

[Metaphysician]

DGNED I disagree wholeheartedly with the sentiment in your first sentence. Though I like both systems, the Empire City setting is more approachable (from a player standpoint) and relevant (from a character standpoint) (partly due to it's similarity to RW Earth), than the Champions Universe. The CU, esp. in the current edition, suffers in comparison due to the "crowded" feeling it imparts: Kinda like the Pre-Crisis DCU, where the setting is top-heavy with big playas. JMHO
OTOH, you're right about the iconic heroes. To me, this comes back to the setting: Because extra care was devoted to integrating the characters from the SAS corebook into the EC background, they just have more of a "3-D" feel to them.
Heh, I'll probably return to this later..but my mailman just dropped off a VERY important package {Woo-Hoo! Reality Storm at last!:) )

Crowded?? How??

They've barely statted out any heroes at all, at not a one of the iconic ones ( unless Quasar counts ).

[Metaphysician]

OTOH, I *do* very much like the idea of having, say, SAS, Freedom City, and Champions as "parallel earths" with the possibility of crossover.

[death tribble]

Metaphysician,

You don't want any of the White Rooks ?
I do particularly Alice who you can drop in almost anywhere.

[JJR]

Crowded?? How??

They've barely statted out any heroes at all, at not a one of the iconic ones ( unless Quasar counts ).
I believe he means crowded in the sense that there are so many listed heroes in the champions universe. It seems like there are over 150 listed in the pdf. Millenium city alone has 22 listed heroes in it, not including the ravenswood cadets.

It does seem like hero games goes out of its way to not give us hero write ups. Even the mystic world has no mystic superhero write ups in it. You would think they would have included one or two. IMO, we really need more concrete information on the universe and its heroes.

[Just A Guy Name]

Crowded?? How??

They've barely statted out any heroes at all, at not a one of the iconic ones ( unless Quasar counts ).I was referring to the large number of high point value villains in the Champions Universe. I feel their presence tends to overshadow the efforts of standard level heroes. But your comment brings another comparison to mind that favours the Empire City setting, in my view: There is a greater balance between published heroes and villains for the ECU. This helps alleviate the dissimilitude (if that's the right word) created by having the PCs being the only heroes opposing all those villains. Just having stats for them (the NPC heroes) gives credence to the promise of backup or support, and creates an air of authenticity ("Hey! Why is every other super in the world besides us, a villain?!") that I approve of. JMHO

[JJR]

I was referring to the large number of high point value villains in the Champions Universe. I feel their presence tends to overshadow the efforts of standard level heroes.
There really are not that many high point villains in champions. I believe there are only 7 published villains over 1,000 points. The other 120+ are all in the 350-800 point range. With heroes starting at 350 points a 500 point villain is really not much of a challenge for 2-3 heroes in combat. I don't really see the overshadowing you speak of.

[Lord Liaden]

I'm sure I've asked this before, but assuming plot and rationalization permit, is anyone else considering making crossover between "alternate game worlds" more common in their campaigns? Not casual like a commute to work, but still... :)

My group has been discussing it. With readily-available HERO System stats for characters from Marvel, DC, M&M's Freedom City and now SAS, there are lots of possibilities to choose from. :)

The concensus seems to be to keep such events rare, though; overdoing them kind of waters down the impact of what should be an extraordinary event. Maybe something roughly annual, like the old JLA/JSA cross-world teamups, but unpredictable as to whose universe's characters will show up. ;) In any case, my players want to take the time to become more established in our world before mucking about in anyone else's.

[Wildcat]

OK I just skimmed over the Reality Storm, paying most of the attention to the write ups for the SAS chars in Hero. Now I'll preface this with I've never played SAS or the Tri-Stat system, so I'm just coming at this from a Herophile POV.

Looking at the characters I see an odd mish-mosh of power levels on the Guard. While Caliburn is interesting, he is extremely poorly built for a 400+pt char, and the same goes for SlipStream & Mother Raven. It seems rather odd to have these characters on the same team w/Sentinel & Red Phoenix (900 & 600pts respectively) Not to mention the Villains. I mean How can Slimstream even HOPE to survive a battle that is going to be challenging to Sentinel? He’s got an 11 PD/ED, and the only way he could effectively deal some Damage would be to Move By/Through on someone. And with his PD I wouldn’t recommend the Move through. Not to mention that his full movement cost him 9 End, a Strike 2 End, for a total of 11 & with a 9 SPD that’s 99 End a Turn (or lots of Recoveries @ reduced DCV Not that his DCV is any good for a Speedster anyway)… he’s only got 36 End. Then to be the Team Speedster and only have a 20 DEX (24 w/LR) he’s slower than Red Phx, & Sentinel too (not counting the LR). It would seem that Red Phx & Sentinel do all the heavy lifting in this team, while the others hope the villains don’t notice them.

Anyway I think you get my point… and I’m not even getting into Kreutzitter. The only thing I can think of to pin this on is the Conversion. I think that the SAS chars in Hero stats are def getting the short end of the stick here. Has anyone else noticed this?

Maybe someone familiar with the SAS system can shed some light on this for me.

[Metaphysician]

Metaphysician,

You don't want any of the White Rooks ?
I do particularly Alice who you can drop in almost anywhere.

Alice is not bad; super-mercs are easy to integrate. However, the rest are rather blah, or have serious issues. Certainly, I'd rather use Teleios than Matthews any day.

[Metaphysician]

I believe he means crowded in the sense that there are so many listed heroes in the champions universe. It seems like there are over 150 listed in the pdf. Millenium city alone has 22 listed heroes in it, not including the ravenswood cadets.

It does seem like hero games goes out of its way to not give us hero write ups. Even the mystic world has no mystic superhero write ups in it. You would think they would have included one or two. IMO, we really need more concrete information on the universe and its heroes.

I don't really count those people, since no information is provided. They can be used as anything you want, with no real effect outside the small handful for each city that are "local big names."

I agree, though, we could use much more hero writeups. Especially for the Sentinels and Justice Squadron.

( no, the hideously underpowered Digital Hero writeups don't count )

[Metaphysician]

There really are not that many high point villains in champions. I believe there are only 7 published villains over 1,000 points. The other 120+ are all in the 350-800 point range. With heroes starting at 350 points a 500 point villain is really not much of a challenge for 2-3 heroes in combat. I don't really see the overshadowing you speak of.

Yeah, but the setting is in desperate need of some higher point heroes to account for why all those 1000+ villains haven't conquered the world yet.

( 1000+ = Dr Destroyer, Takofanes, Gravitar, Warlord, Mechanon, Menton, Supreme Serpent, Viperia. Istvatha and Teleios are in the same effective power range or higher, despite their lower point total. Probably about another half dozen in the same range yet to be statted, like Dr Yin Wu )

[Metaphysician]

OK I just skimmed over the Reality Storm, paying most of the attention to the write ups for the SAS chars in Hero. Now I'll preface this with I've never played SAS or the Tri-Stat system, so I'm just coming at this from a Herophile POV.

Looking at the characters I see an odd mish-mosh of power levels on the Guard. While Caliburn is interesting, he is extremely poorly built for a 400+pt char, and the same goes for SlipStream & Mother Raven. It seems rather odd to have these characters on the same team w/Sentinel & Red Phoenix (900 & 600pts respectively) Not to mention the Villains. I mean How can Slimstream even HOPE to survive a battle that is going to be challenging to Sentinel? He’s got an 11 PD/ED, and the only way he could effectively deal some Damage would be to Move By/Through on someone. And with his PD I wouldn’t recommend the Move through. Not to mention that his full movement cost him 9 End, a Strike 2 End, for a total of 11 & with a 9 SPD that’s 99 End a Turn (or lots of Recoveries @ reduced DCV Not that his DCV is any good for a Speedster anyway)… he’s only got 36 End. Then to be the Team Speedster and only have a 20 DEX (24 w/LR) he’s slower than Red Phx, & Sentinel too (not counting the LR). It would seem that Red Phx & Sentinel do all the heavy lifting in this team, while the others hope the villains don’t notice them.

Anyway I think you get my point… and I’m not even getting into Kreutzitter. The only thing I can think of to pin this on is the Conversion. I think that the SAS chars in Hero stats are def getting the short end of the stick here. Has anyone else noticed this?

Maybe someone familiar with the SAS system can shed some light on this for me.

. . .ouch. I have SAS, and I can't explain all of that.

[JJR]

Looking at the characters I see an odd mish-mosh of power levels on the Guard. While Caliburn is interesting, he is extremely poorly built for a 400+pt char, and the same goes for SlipStream & Mother Raven. It seems rather odd to have these characters on the same team w/Sentinel & Red Phoenix (900 & 600pts respectively) Not to mention the Villains. I mean How can Slimstream even HOPE to survive a battle that is going to be challenging to Sentinel?
The guard are designed to represent the justice league of their universe. How does Batman survive something designed to be fought by Superman or Green Lantern? The same concept applies here. Most of the games I have played in have had different power levels for all the heroes. Crane does 8d6, Valhalla does 22d6. The game works for us without anyone feeling under or over powered.

The genre itself dictates that all characters have dramatically different power levels. It's really only in champions games that everyone needs to be equal for some reason.

[JJR]

Yeah, but the setting is in desperate need of some higher point heroes to account for why all those 1000+ villains haven't conquered the world yet.
I agree superhero write ups are very much needed for the game. Strike Force and To Serve And Protect are two very fondly remembered books because of the superhero write ups in them.

I don't really agree that you need mega-heroes to stand up to 1,000 point villains. The Champions can go against Mechanon and have a reasonable chance at success. The same goes for Warlord and Supreme Serpent. Point totals are not always an indicator of power.

[Trebuchet]

I don't really agree that you need mega-heroes to stand up to 1,000 point villains. The Champions can go against Mechanon and have a reasonable chance at success. The same goes for Warlord and Supreme Serpent. Point totals are not always an indicator of power.Our team MidGuard took on TWO Mechanon knockoffs simultaneously and won, and we're all under 400 points even with experience.

[Wildcat]

The guard are designed to represent the justice league of their universe. How does Batman survive something designed to be fought by Superman or Green Lantern? The same concept applies here. Most of the games I have played in have had different power levels for all the heroes. Crane does 8d6, Valhalla does 22d6. The game works for us without anyone feeling under or over powered.

The genre itself dictates that all characters have dramatically different power levels. It's really only in champions games that everyone needs to be equal for some reason.

Well in a Comic Book a mix of Powerlevels can work just fine, but in an RPG it's not that easy. If you have someone in the team that can dish 22d6 then there should be a villian that can take that hit. If so then the 8d6 guy is totaly ineffective most of the time... granted special powers can come into play at anytime.
How does Batman hang w/GL & Supes... Because he's the smartest one there.. he's got a ZILLION points too... vehicles, Gadgets TONS of skills, Combat skill levels and so on... But my point wasn't weather or not the Guard were in genre but why some of them came out so totaly bad when converted... Are those characters really that outclased by the others in the Guard? Or was it a matter of Mechanics that got lost in the conversion. And remember my example was of Slipstream (a Flash like char) who couldn't stand up to Impulse (Kid Flash now) let alone the Flash.
I guess what I'm getting at is that without knowing the SAS system, it looks like the other chars in the Guard are just non-combat support for Red Phx & Sentinel.

[Agent X]

Our team MidGuard took on TWO Mechanon knockoffs simultaneously and won, and we're all under 400 points even with experience.Our team, the Regulators (I didn't pick the name) were all under 400 points and took on multiple Mechanons, at least eight or nine, and defeated them. We used what we had and took advantage of SKILLS! and somewhat CLEVER USES of POWERS! to destroy the Mechanon Factory.

[JJR]

And remember my example was of Slipstream (a Flash like char) who couldn't stand up to Impulse (Kid Flash now) let alone the Flash.
I guess what I'm getting at is that without knowing the SAS system, it looks like the other chars in the Guard are just non-combat support for Red Phx & Sentinel.
The characters are combat support. Maybe Slipstream can't fight Iron Duke but he can fight Alice or Janus or other people within in the conflict. Mother Raven is not too powerful but she does have a 30 ego and her mental illusions will almost always go first. I would also hate to be caught by her sun's kiss. Slipstream can dish out 8d6 of damage but he does have a 9 speed.

You can't really compare everyone to Sentinel. He is like Superman. Red Phoenix only dishes out 12d6 of damage. It is not like she will be using her major killing attack on every thug that wanders into her path. The power levels are diverse but with the exception of Sentinel most of the guard are in the 8d6 to 12d6 range.

I personally find groups like the Champions boring. What is the point of diversity when everyone does the same damage and has the same defense level? In combat they all become interchangeable.

[Michael Hopcroft]

I haven't gone oiver the Guard's Champions writups in fine detail but iN SAS terms their point levels really do vary that wildly. Sentinel is 300 points in SAS. caliburn is only 125 points -- yet, in his envirronment, he kicks ass and takes names. he is a superb tactician, the epitome of training that a human can achieve without resorting to mutagens, and has a neary indomitable force of will (something Champions, by linking EGO to mental powers, doesn;t always model very well). In many respects he IS the batman of the ECU, and he can do a lot of things that he doesn;t neccesarily even have to pay points for.

In Champs tersm, Claiburn has a +4 modifier of ALL combat. combine that with his good 9if not overwhelming) GAdget Pool and you have a street-level super who can survive in a four-color world. Most of the time he WILL hit you. Most of the time you can't hit him. And he;s smart and craftyy, knwoing better than to hit something he knows he can;t hurt unless he has some other reason. If any villain in a universe Caliburn is in has a Susepticlity of Vulenrability, Caliburn will know, and exploit it ruthlessly. And part os his job on the Guard is to teach the rest of the team hbow to fight smart and effectively with everything at their disposal.

This guy is as seriously badass as Nighthawk, if not more so.

[Wildcat]

The characters are combat support. Maybe Slipstream can't fight Iron Duke but he can fight Alice or Janus or other people within in the conflict. Mother Raven is not too powerful but she does have a 30 ego and her mental illusions will almost always go first. I would also hate to be caught by her sun's kiss. Slipstream can dish out 8d6 of damage but he does have a 9 speed.
Yeah 8d6 with an average Stun of 28 per hit, and let's say he's fighting someone with the average Def like in the Champions (20) that's 8 stun per hit. OK 9 Hits in a Turn and we're looking at 72 Stun... not bad. Except that Slipstream cant dish that out 9 times... he can only do this in 4 times (12, 2, 3, 4) before he's out of End and at best he's only got either a 9 OCV or a 9 DCV or some combo adding up to that. So not very un-hittable. If he takes a hit (Very Likely) from the once again Average Champions attack (12d6) that's 42 Stun, and 31 past his def... he's KOed in 1 hit. Sounds very Combat Ineffective. Oh and Alice would THUMP Slipstream.



You can't really compare everyone to Sentinel. He is like Superman. Red Phoenix only dishes out 12d6 of damage. It is not like she will be using her major killing attack on every thug that wanders into her path. The power levels are diverse but with the exception of Sentinel most of the guard are in the 8d6 to 12d6 range.
Sorry didn't mean to compare him only to Sentinel, I thought I said Flash. But I will say this again. In a Comic where the writer controls everything... having that varied a power level is fine, only when the writer wants it that way, do opponents of the 2 ends of the spectrum face each other... and then it still ends up the way the writer wants it.
In a RPG however the GM, while having a large amount of control, doesn't have absolute control, and in most instances you will wind up with the powerful ones SLAUGHTERING the lower powered characters.


I personally find groups like the Champions boring. What is the point of diversity when everyone does the same damage and has the same defense level? In combat they all become interchangeable.
I think that it's not the # of d6 you throw or your total PD/ED that defines the character, or distinguishes him/her from the other PCs. It's HOW you do it... isn't this Hero?? Isn't this the Game where SFX rules Supreme. So if Blastar does 6d6 NND, and so does Thrash does that make them the same chars? Boring Chars? I say not... Blastar's is described as a Bio-blast disrupting the victim’s nervous system... Thrash's is the classic Brick Trick: Finger Thump... Thumping an unarmored sap in the melon to knock them into oblivion.

Anyway I think we've gotten off on a tangent here. I wasn't faulting the characters or their concepts. I was trying to figure out how these 'Iconic' Characters, whom I suppose are quite powerful in the ECU can be so wimpy in the CU. I suspect it's the Conversion system, but I have no way of knowing because I don't play SAS (Tri-Stat). And if it was the conversion system… I would like to think that some care would be taken to represent the characters as accurately as possible. (Although I can see why that couldn’t be done, it would invalidate the Conversion system if it wasn’t used 100% on the characters in the book.)
So is there anyone out there that could tell me if these chars from SAS are getting yanked by the short hairs, or is this really how they are?

[JJR]

So is there anyone out there that could tell me if these chars from SAS are getting yanked by the short hairs, or is this really how they are?
I don't believe the characters are getting yanked. Your point about Slipstream's endurance is valid but SAS does not use endurance in any viable way. Endurance is an optional rule in SAS so the endurance usage by characters is an oversight.

Having played SAS before coming back to champions I think they are fairly accurate representations. I think there is room for color adjustments with the characters after the straight conversions. In the SAS universe Sentinel is supposed to be around a 900 point character and Slipstream is supposed to be around a 300 point character within the SAS universe.

[JJR]

Isn't this the Game where SFX rules Supreme. So if Blastar does 6d6 NND, and so does Thrash does that make them the same chars? Boring Chars? I say not... Blastar's is described as a Bio-blast disrupting the victim’s nervous system... Thrash's is the classic Brick Trick: Finger Thump... Thumping an unarmored sap in the melon to knock them into oblivion.
I agree somewhat, but when every single character in your group has the same speed, does the same damage, has the same defenses, and has the same movement inches to maintain 'balance' then I think something is flawed. Special effects are nice and interesting but if you can remove Sapphire and replace her with Meteorman and no one notices a difference than something is slightly wrong.

[Hermit]

I agree somewhat, but when every single character in your group has the same speed, does the same damage, has the same defenses, and has the same movement inches to maintain 'balance' then I think something is flawed. Special effects are nice and interesting but if you can remove Sapphire and replace her with Meteorman and no one notices a difference than something is slightly wrong.

I'd say the something wrong in that case would be you don't have enough Roleplaying to go with your combat. I mean, sheesh, that's a change the other PCs should notice don't you think? :)

"So, Sapphire, is it my imagination, or did you change your costume again?"

[JJR]

I'd say the something wrong in that case would be you don't have enough Roleplaying to go with your combat. I mean, sheesh, that's a change the other PCs should notice don't you think? :)
For roleplaying there is a difference. From power level most champions starting characters are interchangeable.

It should also be pointed out that the Guard are an npc team, not the player's team. I have a feeling that the Sentinels from the cu also have varying power levels. But from a roleplaying stand point not everyone needs to be the same power levels. The roleplaying is even better when you have such diversity in a group as the Guard has.

[Metaphysician]

The guard are designed to represent the justice league of their universe. How does Batman survive something designed to be fought by Superman or Green Lantern? The same concept applies here. Most of the games I have played in have had different power levels for all the heroes. Crane does 8d6, Valhalla does 22d6. The game works for us without anyone feeling under or over powered.

The genre itself dictates that all characters have dramatically different power levels. It's really only in champions games that everyone needs to be equal for some reason.

Except that Batman makes up for his lack of offensive power through a massive and versatile skill set. Caliburn, as written, isn't all that good a street level fighter, doesn't have that great a skill or equipment set, and is in general way too weak.

[Metaphysician]

I agree superhero write ups are very much needed for the game. Strike Force and To Serve And Protect are two very fondly remembered books because of the superhero write ups in them.

I don't really agree that you need mega-heroes to stand up to 1,000 point villains. The Champions can go against Mechanon and have a reasonable chance at success. The same goes for Warlord and Supreme Serpent. Point totals are not always an indicator of power.

No, but they are a good indicator. And I don't know how you run campaigns, but just looking at the stats, I don't see the Champions winning against Mechanon without a lot of backup. . .

[Wildcat]

No, but they are a good indicator. And I don't know how you run campaigns, but just looking at the stats, I don't see the Champions winning against Mechanon without a lot of backup. . .

I'll Second that!!! :cheers:

[JJR]

No, but they are a good indicator. And I don't know how you run campaigns, but just looking at the stats, I don't see the Champions winning against Mechanon without a lot of backup. . .
I think you've already seen a couple of examples from people in this thread who say their 350-400 point groups are taking down 2 or more Mechanon's in a battle. It's really not that uncommon for that to happen. Run some test combats yourself. You might be surpised how easy Mechanon is to defeat.

[Hermit]

I think you've already seen a couple of examples from people in this thread who say their 350-400 point groups are taking down 2 or more Mechanon's in a battle. It's really not that uncommon for that to happen. Run some test combats yourself. You might be surpised how easy Mechanon is to defeat.


Never underestimate a PC's ability to get on a hot streak. I had maximum damage done to Mechanon by the same Player's character TWICE in a combat. The others came close to matching that luck. This, combined with some good tactics, proved lethal for Mechanon. This was a 350 pt group.

[Lord Liaden]

I don't think it's a coincidence that Mechanon is included as the example team-threatening opponent in the Champions genre book. I've begun to suspect that he was designed for a team of Standard Superheroes to be able to beat, albeit usually after a tough fight. His defenses are low compared to the size of his attacks, and his offensive Multipowers are not built as efficiently as they easily could be.

OTOH the version of Mechanon that you'll see in Galactic Champions is a VERY different story. ;)

As far as the Guard goes, if their translation into HERO terms compares fairly to their SAS stats, that's really all that we could ask of the translation matrix. It sounds as though they wouldn't be that hard or expensive to modify to be more effective in combat. Slipstream, for example, would seem to just need some more DEX and/or CSLs, and higher Defense to let him perform Move Throughs. The basic concept and design parameters of a character are the hard parts to come up with, and that's been done for us with the Guard; the rest is mostly a matter of tweaking to taste.

I'll probably be picking Reality Storm up this weekend, though, so I'll see for myself. As I said before, I've been looking for a good character to fill the Superman role in my campaign world, and a 900 pt. Sentinel sounds promising. :)

[Lord Mhoram]

3 roll calls

I wasn't aware the third one had come out... Another book to order next week.

Alice is likely my favorite villian in SAS followed by Kruezritter. I've already used both of them in my Champs game (I've been doing seat of the pants re-imaginings of SAS characters since I first got the SAS book).

[Just A Guy Name]

There really are not that many high point villains in champions. I believe there are only 7 published villains over 1,000 points. The other 120+ are all in the 350-800 point range. With heroes starting at 350 points a 500 point villain is really not much of a challenge for 2-3 heroes in combat. I don't really see the overshadowing you speak of.I guess it is hard to see the forest sometimes with the trees getting in the way;) The average point total for all those villains is well over 350, and some of them bring a lot more to the table than just themselves (Warlord with a mere army of 4000 is one of the lesser examples). How many of these villains are your 350 pt PCs stopping by themselves?

[Just A Guy Name]

Alice is not bad; super-mercs are easy to integrate. However, the rest are rather blah, or have serious issues. Certainly, I'd rather use Teleios than Matthews any day.Ah, well...tastes differ:/ I feel the opposite way: Teleios is kinda boring to me (in the way that 'perfect' people often are to those less blessed;) )..MM didn't do much for me either, until Matthews GenTech came out, revealing facets of his character (depraved ones, mostly) I had not realized existed.

[Just A Guy Name]

Yeah, but the setting is in desperate need of some higher point heroes to account for why all those 1000+ villains haven't conquered the world yet.

( 1000+ = Dr Destroyer, Takofanes, Gravitar, Warlord, Mechanon, Menton, Supreme Serpent, Viperia. Istvatha and Teleios are in the same effective power range or higher, despite their lower point total. Probably about another half dozen in the same range yet to be statted, like Dr Yin Wu )Indeed..and to say nothing of the various evil organizations which are generally the equivalent of a very high powered super, each.

[Just A Guy Name]

Except that Batman makes up for his lack of offensive power through a massive and versatile skill set. Caliburn, as written, isn't all that good a street level fighter, doesn't have that great a skill or equipment set, and is in general way too weak.And yet..he manages to get by, often fighting against opponents who appear to be more of a match for RP or Sentinel.. He probably uses mirrors:)

[Metaphysician]

Again, his stats don't reflect that.

Re: Mechanon vs Champions- Okay, let me specify that in a *fair* fight, I can't see them winning. Mechanon is just too fast, has too much firepower, and most importantly, has enough OCV that the only time he *won't* hit far more often than he misses is if somebody dodges, expending an action.

Emphasis on "fair" fight; I *can* see one using situation to gain an advantage. If nothing else, gaining surprise could allow a teamwork attack for Stun, with appropriate followup.

As for the case examples given by others, I can't assess them, given I don't have the characters. I can ask one thing, though: how many 150 point drone robot minions did he have at the time, and if he had few or none, why??

[Agent X]

Again, his stats don't reflect that.

Re: Mechanon vs Champions- Okay, let me specify that in a *fair* fight, I can't see them winning. Mechanon is just too fast, has too much firepower, and most importantly, has enough OCV that the only time he *won't* hit far more often than he misses is if somebody dodges, expending an action.

Emphasis on "fair" fight; I *can* see one using situation to gain an advantage. If nothing else, gaining surprise could allow a teamwork attack for Stun, with appropriate followup.

As for the case examples given by others, I can't assess them, given I don't have the characters. I can ask one thing, though: how many 150 point drone robot minions did he have at the time, and if he had few or none, why??They were attacking the city at the time.

[Hermit]

Well, it's made it's way to my state. I picked it, and the Ultimate Brick, up tonight.Too soon to go into my own thoughts, but so far, I'm loving it. :)

[Hermit]

(I posted this on the showdown site as well despite the fact i don't think anyone goes there anymore, but you never know)

I plan to flip through it a few more times, but I must say after the first initial look over, I'm very pleased. Given the limited space (it has both the story AND conversion rules) they had to work with, the adventure seems sound, and while I don't know the Tri Stat rules well enough to say how the Champions translated, the Guard write ups look good to me.

It's not perfect mind you. Red Phoenix is shown as a blonde in the artwork, yet mentioned as a redhead in one of her disadvantages. However, that nitpickery is really the only thing that jumped out at me on first reading.

The script for the villains are well done, taking their personality quirks into account well I thought. Cosmic beings and realms are touched upon, and it really does manage to capture the feel of some of those cross over events you see in comics. The plot tree does not try to force a specific ending even in victory, leaving lots of options that respect the fact it's the individual GM's worlds now to play with as they wish.

The art, while grayscale within, is very well done and continues to evoke the homage to comic crossovers (In fact, 'comic cover' style artwork is laced through out).

I need to look over the conversion rules more carefully, but I think it's safe to say Tri Stat products are now going to be seen as potential buys for my champion campaigns. I think the reverse will be true for SAS players.

I give it a hearty thumbs up.

[Lord Liaden]

(I posted this on the showdown site as well despite the fact i don't think anyone goes there anymore, but you never know)



You'll probably have more luck on GOO's Silver Age Sentinels discussion boards (http://www.iguardians.net/boards/forumdisplay.php?f=12). Several Reality Storm-related threads have already popped up there. :)

[Hermit]

Thanks LL

[Lord Liaden]

This thread (http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?threadid=127711) on RPGnet would probably benefit from input by people who have read Reality Storm.

[death tribble]

I bought it and I am a little surprised about the powers of some of the people when converted.
But I can now convert others thanks to the conversion table.
I love the comic book covers that are shown.

The latest Roll Call is called Country Matters and features women that the evil Janus has discarded. there are some nice ideas here.

[Redmenace]

I haven't seen it yet. Surprised, how?

[Just A Guy Name]

I've got it (finally!), but I'm curious as well..What was it that you found surprising?

[Hermit]

This thread (http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?threadid=127711) on RPGnet would probably benefit from input by people who have read Reality Storm.
It might, but given the small but vocal crowd of rabid posters at RPG net who attack anything with the word HERO on it, I am reluctant to do so. :( Unless that situation has improved, in which case I apologize.

[death tribble]

Slipstream's Dex at 20 and Alice being below 20 Dex as well. That surprised me.

[Just A Guy Name]

Yeah, SAS stats don't necessarily reflect character concept in the same way that Hero's characteristics do. Slipstream's dexterity (ie, his SAS dexterity, as represented by his Body Stat) is high, but within normal human range. Unlike Hero speedsters, who use high DEX to offset the cost of Speed, as well as guarantee a high initiative, SAS runners buy those qualities apart from their stats.

[JJR]

Yeah, SAS stats don't necessarily reflect character concept in the same way that Hero's characteristics do. Slipstream's dexterity (ie, his SAS dexterity, as represented by his Body Stat) is high, but within normal human range. Unlike Hero speedsters, who use high DEX to offset the cost of Speed, as well as guarantee a high initiative, SAS runners buy those qualities apart from their stats.
Slipstream does have lightning reflexes so he is not quite so slow. With those Kinetik is only 2 points of dexterity quicker.

[Just A Guy Name]

Slipstream does have lightning reflexes so he is not quite so slow. With those Kinetik is only 2 points of dexterity quicker.Right. That was where I was going, but I guess I hit the brakes too soon;)

[Enforcer84]

Conversions can do wacky things.
:)

I still fondly remember the DC Heroes to Hero and V&V to Hero Conversions I found.
I still have the vast majority of the DC Heroes 2nd & 3rd Edition Characters converted to hero, and A good chunk of the V&V universe as well, but it was on MetaCreator and I forgot to Convert them to HD I simply erased the VIllains...:(

[Allensh]

Just got the book. I have not yet delved into the conversion system but I have read the stats and scanned the adventure. It looks like an excellent book to me and I am proud to FINALLY be able to add it to my collection :)

Now we need to start lobbying for Reality Storm 2: Crisis in Freedom City <g>.

Allen

[Hugh Neilson]

Just got the book. I have not yet delved into the conversion system but I have read the stats and scanned the adventure. It looks like an excellent book to me and I am proud to FINALLY be able to add it to my collection :)

Now we need to start lobbying for Reality Storm 2: Crisis in Freedom City <g>.

Allen

With Hero managing the project, please. I've come to like on-time shipping...

[Hermit]

I must say, the relatively low defenses of Caliburn, Mother Raven, and Slipstream surprised me. I realize the Guard has more combat levels than the Champions on average to balance it out, but yikes!

Now, on the flip side, Red Phoenix and Sentinel have no such problem.

[Metaphysician]

( speaking about the SAS side )

Mother Raven has her intangibility in SAS as her defense. Thing is, IIRC, SAS allows usage of non-physical powers while intangible without extra cost.

OTOH, there might be low defences because SAS uses a quasi-abstract health component, that incorporates stuff like willpower and intelligent evasion. It'd be best to give both Caliburn and Slipstream combat luck.

( actually, it'd be best to not even bother trying to keep Caliburn within his official SAS writeup limits, and build him to be as powerful as he *ought* to be, plotwise. . . )

[Allensh]

With Hero managing the project, please. I've come to like on-time shipping...

Well, Green Ronin is somewhat better about that than GoO appears to be. although that hasn't held true for the M&M Annual #1, but there may have been other issues with that. Still, I agree that Hero would be the best choice to head up such a project.

Allen

[JJR]

( actually, it'd be best to not even bother trying to keep Caliburn within his official SAS writeup limits, and build him to be as powerful as he *ought* to be, plotwise. . . )
Caliburn is built as a low-powered hero in SAS. When you consider his character point totals I was shocked that he came out as powerful as he did in the hero conversion. Caliburn is a 125 point SAS character. He is not supposed to be Batman-like in power.

[JJR]

I must say, the relatively low defenses of Caliburn, Mother Raven, and Slipstream surprised me. I realize the Guard has more combat levels than the Champions on average to balance it out, but yikes!
Caliburn with his 10 DEF and Slipstream with his 11 DEF are really not that far off from characters like Shugoshen 13/11 and Kinetik 15/14. Caliburn is really more of a dark champions level character in SAS.

[JJR]

Well, Green Ronin is somewhat better about that than GoO appears to be. although that hasn't held true for the M&M Annual #1, but there may have been other issues with that. Still, I agree that Hero would be the best choice to head up such a project.
I have nothing against Green Ronin but so far freedom city, the nocturnals, and the annual have all been months late. With the annual not out yet there is a good bet that foes of freedom will also be 1-2 months late as well. If this project did come about, and I would not expect it to due to the ogl/d20 issues, I would still rather see Green Ronin do it just so I could see some champions material in color! I know it would be months like just as reality storm was but I would still love to see any champions thing in color.

[Hermit]

( speaking about the SAS side )

Mother Raven has her intangibility in SAS as her defense. Thing is, IIRC, SAS allows usage of non-physical powers while intangible without extra cost.

Hmm, Mental Illusions with the Affects Real world Limitation would indeed be more formidible.



OTOH, there might be low defences because SAS uses a quasi-abstract health component, that incorporates stuff like willpower and intelligent evasion. It'd be best to give both Caliburn and Slipstream combat luck.

( actually, it'd be best to not even bother trying to keep Caliburn within his official SAS writeup limits, and build him to be as powerful as he *ought* to be, plotwise. . . )

Well, I see MR already has some, but I might take your advice and give her a wee bit more. Dark champion style aside (as someone else pointed out) I think I am going to give some Combat Luck or resistant defenses to Caliburn. His ability to ambush is surely handy and makes up for that lack somewhat, but, personal preference, I'd hate to see a killing attack just tear through him completely.

JJR- Yeah, not too far off (but more resistant)then again, I think the Champions defenses need to be about 3 higher on average as well. I maybe letting my preference for 4th ed champs defense levels bias me.

[Doug McCrae]

It's not perfect mind you. Red Phoenix is shown as a blonde in the artwork, yet mentioned as a redhead in one of her disadvantages. That's a feature, not a bug. The full-colour hardback SAS has two rather different looking pictures of Red Phoenix. One has red hair and is kind of tough looking (the one on the cover), the other has blonde hair and looks a bit more Silver Age apart from her 90s style bare midriff. I think they're Silver Age/Iron Age versions or maybe pre-Crisis/post-Crisis or something like that.

[Hermit]

That's a feature, not a bug.
:lol:



The full-colour hardback SAS has two rather different looking pictures of Red Phoenix. One has red hair and is kind of tough looking (the one on the cover), the other has blonde hair and looks a bit more Silver Age apart from her 90s style bare midriff. I think they're Silver Age/Iron Age versions or maybe pre-Crisis/post-Crisis or something like that.
Okay, that explains a lot. Thanks. :)

[Lord Liaden]

I must say, the relatively low defenses of Caliburn, Mother Raven, and Slipstream surprised me. I realize the Guard has more combat levels than the Champions on average to balance it out, but yikes!

Now, on the flip side, Red Phoenix and Sentinel have no such problem.

I was a little surprised at how low the Constitutions of the SAS characters came out in the conversion, especially the major powerhouses. Kreuzritter is the highest at 30, and Iron Duke has only 15! I realize that most of the SAS characters don't burn energy using their powers the way Champions characters burn END, eliminating one major use for CON. Certainly the strongest characters have fairly high defenses, but they also have some honkin' huge attacks, so CON-Stunning would be a real concern. A fight between Sentinel and Iron Duke would probably be decided by the first solid blow one of them landed on the other. I would definitely consider bumping up Constitutions for Sentinel, Iron Duke, Red Phoenix and maybe Kreuzritter, or add some Damage Reduction.

The adventure itself is solid, and I like how it works in major characters from each universe without having them take over from the PCs. The Crystal Palace is an intriguing location with definite potential long-term use.

I haven't studied the translation matrix closely enough to pass judgement, especially since I'm not too familiar with Tri-Stat, but it certainly looks comprehensive. :)

[Hermit]

The adventure itself is solid, and I like how it works in major characters from each universe without having them take over from the PCs. The Crystal Palace is an intriguing location with definite potential long-term use.

Total agreement. I also find myself hoping that other beings similar to Entropus, the Trickster, etc will get mention in some upcoming products. It makes me nostalgic for early Dr. Strange, Adam Warlock, and Silver Surfer stuff.
One wonders who the Multiverse equivilent of Eternity, Death, and the Inbetweener might be. Let alone the Living Tribunal :)

[Lord Liaden]

Total agreement. I also find myself hoping that other beings similar to Entropus, the Trickster, etc will get mention in some upcoming products. It makes me nostalgic for early Dr. Strange, Adam Warlock, and Silver Surfer stuff.
One wonders who the Multiverse equivilent of Eternity, Death, and the Inbetweener might be. Let alone the Living Tribunal :)

Seek out those tomes of hidden lore called The Mystic World and Galactic Champions, and many of your questions shall be answered, my son. :angel:

[Hermit]

Seek out those tomes of hidden lore called The Mystic World and Galactic Champions, and many of your questions shall be answered, my son. :angel:

Thank you wise lord of the Northern Realm :hail:

;)

[TheQuestionMan]

Conversions can do wacky things. :)

I still fondly remember the DC Heroes to Hero and V&V to Hero Conversions I found. I still have the vast majority of the DC Heroes 2nd & 3rd Edition Characters converted to hero, and A good chunk of the V&V universe as well, but it was on MetaCreator and I forgot to Convert them to HD I simply erased the VIllains...:(

I can't believe you did that either. I wish we could send the RCMP in to recover you hard drive.

[Metaphysician]

Caliburn is built as a low-powered hero in SAS. When you consider his character point totals I was shocked that he came out as powerful as he did in the hero conversion. Caliburn is a 125 point SAS character. He is not supposed to be Batman-like in power.

Yeah, he's built like that, but he's not *backgrounded* like that.

[Just A Guy Name]

With Hero managing the project, please. I've come to like on-time shipping...Meow!;)

[Just A Guy Name]

I must say, the relatively low defenses of Caliburn, Mother Raven, and Slipstream surprised me. I realize the Guard has more combat levels than the Champions on average to balance it out, but yikes!

Now, on the flip side, Red Phoenix and Sentinel have no such problem.Could be more a flaw of the conversion process than a reflection of the characters in their home system..but SAS characters often get by without buying Armour and/or FF. A high level of HP probably should translate to Hero as some extra (non-resistant) defenses.

[Just A Guy Name]

Mother Raven has her intangibility in SAS as her defense. Thing is, IIRC, SAS allows usage of non-physical powers while intangible without extra cost.Dunno if that's actually true, the rules are silent on that point, though AFAIK, most people play that anything which would require an Ability to affect an incorporeal character also requires one to be used by an incorporeal character.


( actually, it'd be best to not even bother trying to keep Caliburn within his official SAS writeup limits, and build him to be as powerful as he *ought* to be, plotwise. . . )'Course you're free to do so, but he is already exactly as powerful as the designers intended him to be.

[Metaphysician]

Yes, and the designers contradicted themselves on it. If you are going to write a less-than-normal-starting-level character, don't give him a decades-long backstory career.

[Just A Guy Name]

I was a little surprised at how low the Constitutions of the SAS characters came out in the conversion, especially the major powerhouses. Kreuzritter is the highest at 30, and Iron Duke has only 15! I realize that most of the SAS characters don't burn energy using their powers the way Champions characters burn END, eliminating one major use for CON. Certainly the strongest characters have fairly high defenses, but they also have some honkin' huge attacks, so CON-Stunning would be a real concern. A fight between Sentinel and Iron Duke would probably be decided by the first solid blow one of them landed on the other. I would definitely consider bumping up Constitutions for Sentinel, Iron Duke, Red Phoenix and maybe Kreuzritter, or add some Damage Reduction.Yeah..there is no real analogue to CON-Stunning in SAS, so straight conversions of Body to CON may not reflect the resistance to that effect that SAS characters should have. Maybe they should get a percentage of Body converted to extra CON (Only to resist Stunning)

[Just A Guy Name]

Yes, and the designers contradicted themselves on it. If you are going to write a less-than-normal-starting-level character, don't give him a decades-long backstory career.Feel free to change him to suit your campaign's needs. Just saying that you think the presented version is too weak, probably won't get GoO to change the write-up for you.

[Hugh Neilson]

Feel free to change him to suit your campaign's needs. Just saying that you think the presented version is too weak, probably won't get GoO to change the write-up for you.

Most system to system conversions have anomalous results in some areas, just because the mechanics of the systems vary. I've found it more effective to get an understanding of the character's powers, backdrop and power level from the narrative, and write it up myself as I think it's best reflected. A conversion system provides a speed advantage, but often produces less than satisfactory results.

[Armitage]

So I'm looking at Red Phoenix's Champions write-up, and I suddenly think "That can't be right."
So I look at her SAS write-up, and I have to ask...
...exactly what good is a personal force field with Affects Desolid.
Oooh, a Desolid character can't go through you, they actually have to take the time to go around you instead.
The only thing I can think of is a defense against some sort of spectral attack that's NND or AVLD against defenses that Affect Desolid.

[Hermit]

Could be more a flaw of the conversion process than a reflection of the characters in their home system..but SAS characters often get by without buying Armour and/or FF. A high level of HP probably should translate to Hero as some extra (non-resistant) defenses.

Okay, thanks. As I don't know Tri Stat, comparing systems is hard. Now that I have RS:WWC though, I will be keeping an eye out for SAS materials as well as Champs.

Heck, I might even use the 'merged world' option mentioned.

[Lord Liaden]

Most system to system conversions have anomalous results in some areas, just because the mechanics of the systems vary. I've found it more effective to get an understanding of the character's powers, backdrop and power level from the narrative, and write it up myself as I think it's best reflected. A conversion system provides a speed advantage, but often produces less than satisfactory results.

I agree that differences between the systems will produce incongruities in straight conversions, but I for one appreciate that "speed advantage." Looking at the SAS characters in HERO in Reality Storm, I get a very good idea of the type and magnitude of their abilities, and can easily tweak their writeups to suit my preferences. I usually do that with published characters anyway. ;)

[Hermit]

What LL said, heck, I tweak most characters in HERO products a bit, so I'm not surprised that I'm going to tweak converted ones :)

[Lord Liaden]

So I'm looking at Red Phoenix's Champions write-up, and I suddenly think "That can't be right."
So I look at her SAS write-up, and I have to ask...
...exactly what good is a personal force field with Affects Desolid.
Oooh, a Desolid character can't go through you, they actually have to take the time to go around you instead.
The only thing I can think of is a defense against some sort of spectral attack that's NND or AVLD against defenses that Affect Desolid.

Hmm... I wonder: if someone with such a Force Field attempted to Grab a Desolid character, would the Desolid dude be unable to escape? I don't think I'd allow Strength damage to be done, but I might allow the Grabber to immobilize his or her target.

[Hermit]

Hmm... I wonder: if someone with such a Force Field attempted to Grab a Desolid character, would the Desolid dude be unable to escape? I don't think I'd allow Strength damage to be done, but I might allow the Grabber to immobilize his or her target.

One also might allow it to work as hardened against certain indirect or penetrating attacks of a particular FX ("My phase ray bypasses such fields with ease.... What the beam is blocked?! impossible!" )

[Lord Liaden]

One feature of the SAS bricks that's unusual for Champions writeups is their martial training/Martial Arts Skills. Iron Duke and Sentinel already have awesome raw STR, but their Martial Maneuvers allow them to dish out devastating damage, as well as add HTH versatility.

That, and the number and variety of his Skill Levels, are among the things I really like about Sentinel. He's not just raw power like so many high-point characters, and I think this reflects someone who really has been at this superhero business for decades. It's as if Superman had been active continuously, in continuity, ever since his Golden Age debut. :)

[Just A Guy Name]

So I'm looking at Red Phoenix's Champions write-up, and I suddenly think "That can't be right."
So I look at her SAS write-up, and I have to ask...
...exactly what good is a personal force field with Affects Desolid.
Oooh, a Desolid character can't go through you, they actually have to take the time to go around you instead.
The only thing I can think of is a defense against some sort of spectral attack that's NND or AVLD against defenses that Affect Desolid.Heh, well I don't suppose it is something that would prove useful all that often in the ECU. Probably is meant for attacks such as Vision's "Disruption Touch", or to keep nasty ghostses and demons from possessing you, etc.

[Just A Guy Name]

One feature of the SAS bricks that's unusual for Champions writeups is their martial training/Martial Arts Skills. Iron Duke and Sentinel already have awesome raw STR, but their Martial Maneuvers allow them to dish out devastating damage, as well as add HTH versatility.

That, and the number and variety of his Skill Levels, are among the things I really like about Sentinel. He's not just raw power like so many high-point characters, and I think this reflects someone who really has been at this superhero business for decades. It's as if Superman had been active continuously, in continuity, ever since his Golden Age debut. :)For Sentinel, it is a nice homage to his years of experience; but for both him and ID the MA Packages look a little out of place. IMO, Sentinel would look better with a more basic set of maneuvers, perhaps making up for the loss of flexibility by adding another CSL. Duke, I think, probably should not have any MA at all (though the Brawling set is not a big stretch for him). I think maybe a level or two of HA, plus a couple of Accuracy CSLs, might be a better model for him.

[Metaphysician]

So I'm looking at Red Phoenix's Champions write-up, and I suddenly think "That can't be right."
So I look at her SAS write-up, and I have to ask...
...exactly what good is a personal force field with Affects Desolid.
Oooh, a Desolid character can't go through you, they actually have to take the time to go around you instead.
The only thing I can think of is a defense against some sort of spectral attack that's NND or AVLD against defenses that Affect Desolid.

In SAS, force fields can be completely bypassed by phasors. Probably an artifact. Now if it were written as a personal force *wall*. . .

[Hugh Neilson]

I agree that differences between the systems will produce incongruities in straight conversions, but I for one appreciate that "speed advantage." Looking at the SAS characters in HERO in Reality Storm, I get a very good idea of the type and magnitude of their abilities, and can easily tweak their writeups to suit my preferences. I usually do that with published characters anyway. ;)

No question that a conversion system can at least help get the character in the ballpark fairly quickly. And I rarely use a published character as written either, so I end also up making changes (minor tweak to full rewrite) in any case.

[Armitage]

In SAS, force fields can be completely bypassed by phasors. Probably an artifact. Now if it were written as a personal force *wall*. . .

That was my first thought, since the SAS write-up lists her force field as Area 2. But then I rechecked the rules and that's 1m, the minimum the power needs to completely enclose the person generating it.

[Doug McCrae]

It's as if Superman had been active continuously, in continuity, ever since his Golden Age debut. :)If he earned 2 XP a week that'd give him 3432 XP. Plus 250 starting CP makes him a 3682 point character. Seems about right, maybe a bit too much when you take his limitations into account.

[Metaphysician]

OTOH, maybe alot of those points got spent on stuff that fills up the FoS and little else.

As for Force Walls, you can have a force wall that only protects one character.