Costume Design Forum III

[Acroyear]

Ok, kind of hot on the heels of the last one, here's Design Forum III

Again, keep in mind these are just the barest of bare bones doodles. Feel free to offer comments & mix and match (example: suit of #2 with the shoulders of #1, etc). Please vote even if you don't have any comments. The poll leader will get the most attention to revision work.

I expect this one should take a little longer... our description is very vague and gives us lots of possibilities!

Description:
How about a large man with a black and red costume with a lion motif? He is Hercules a villainous usurper to the name.

<img src="http://herogame.dans.cust.servlets.net/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=26155">

[Agent Escafarc]

I'm afraid that none of these do anything for me:(

[KawangaKid]

Howabout Number#3 with a funky

Hood
Cape
Toga effect

made of the lion to complete the deal?

[Blue]

Actually, I like all of them except #3, which looks simple but only by comaprison to the others. The lion idea is very clever. It looks better on #1, where both shoulders are balanced out. But as much as I like the shoulder thing, #2 is my favorite of these. The "kilt" works well with the pattern on the chest in that one.

So, #2. But of the others, #1. (The studs on #4 make him seem really... um... well, the words is a pseudonym for "happy"). Not that there's anything wrong with that if he is!... :p

[winterhawk]

I'm thinking #2 with the Head of #4...Herc should have a beard.

[Acroyear]

Originally posted by Agent Escafarc
I'm afraid that none of these do anything for me:(

Nothing wrong there :)

Any ideas based on the description given?

I tried a range of hercules/biker/strongman themes staying short of actually dressing him up like a lion.

[Agent Escafarc]

Originally posted by Acroyear
Nothing wrong there :)

Any ideas based on the description given?

I tried a range of hercules/biker/strongman themes staying short of actually dressing him up like a lion.

Maybe somthing less biker, more flowing like a toga. Something more hedonist in feeling. If he is as smart as he is strong maybe go more armani with lion cufflinks or monogram

[Kevin Scrivner]

Originally posted by winterhawk
I'm thinking #2 with the Head of #4...Herc should have a beard.

I have to agree. Of the four costumes, No. 2 says "Nemean Lion" best. Old illustrations I've seen show a guy bearded like Bad Herc No. 4 with the lion's impenatrable skin draped around him like a kilt. He also carried a club.

Do you merely want a lion motif? If he's really an evil, PETA-offending guy would he wear an actual lion pelt, preferably acquired by illegal poachers?

[Acroyear]

Originally posted by Kevin Scrivner
Do you merely want a lion motif? If he's really an evil, PETA-offending guy would he wear an actual lion pelt, preferably acquired by illegal poachers?

All I have is the description in the thread opener :)

[Hermit]

Okay, when you say Usurper, it makes me think somehow this guy TOOK the name in more than one sense. Maybe he trapped or tricked the real Herc out of his power.

I like the looks of #1 best (And yes, he needs a beard), but I like the right arm guard of #4 (No need for the other studs)and just one lionhead on a shoulder... because I think this 'usurper' might in part be getting his power from the Numerian (sp) Lion of legend. If you really feel it needs balance, why not have a paw or something on the other shoulder?

[Lord Liaden]

Geez, I've barely had time to catch my breath from the last one! ;)

I actually find the design of #2 quite striking - good use of the lion motif. Numbers 1 and 4 are quite clever in concept in that regard, but in practice look a little bulky and gaudy. I agree with switching the blond head on #2 for the dark-haired, bearded one from #1; that would just look more villainous. (Nothing against dark-haired bearded people, mind you.)

The design does need more red, though. I'm intrigued by the suggestions for capes or togas. How about, instead of the shoulder pads on #2, you add a thick, flowing red cape, starting from the top of the lion's head like a mane? Kind of "Superman meets Kraven the Hunter". A red headband a la #2 might look keen, too.

[Space Cadet]

Of the four choices, I like #1 the best. If you're not adverse to
a suggestion on my part, though, try adding a "lionskin" cape to
the design.

Space Cadet :)

[MisterVimes]

#2 with #4's head and a cloak/hood made of a lion (like Herc himself)

[Lord Liaden]

Another thought that occurred to me would be to use the lion head shoulder pad as a mask, covering the head and half of the face.

[Acroyear]

Originally posted by Lord Liaden
Another thought that occurred to me would be to use the lion head shoulder pad as a mask, covering the head and half of the face.

I had that idea, as well (so did our very own Mister Vimes). I thought it might look too hokey (lol). I'll put one together and add it to the next batch of revisions (which is focusing on one aspect, mostly... might have to backtrack from it - especially as Design #1 is putting up a fight!).

I knew this one would be the biggest battle after the last one seemed so easy... :D

Space Cadet... how could I be adverse to suggestions? That's what we're here for! :)

These revisions are fast as I'm just cutting and pasting sections, mostly. I played with possible capes, mostly... twin capes, half a cape, whole cape... etc.

[winterhawk]

#1 with the cape from #5...and the lion mask is not a good idea for this character.

[Acroyear]

Here's one for our Bleck people who are tied for second place...

[Agent X]

#3 with a little more shoulder pad and #1's head.

[Lord Liaden]

Okay, I think we're getting somewhere now. :)

The bearded head looks good in these revisions (I'm referring to the first batch of revisions), although I'd be curious to see how he looked with black hair rather than brown. The cape definitely adds something. I think I favor the full cape with shoulder pads in #3. I really like the arm bracers in #1, but I believe they'd look better if the rest of the arm was bare up to the shoulder pad.

The lion head mask and lion skin cape could work, but probably better with one of the other outfits - they have a barbaric feel that doesn't really mesh with the modern sleekness of this design.

[Lord Liaden]

Originally posted by Acroyear
Here's one for our Bleck people who are tied for second place...

If you're going to use the whole lionskin in any of the designs, I think that this is the proper way to drape it.

But on top of the faux Armani suit? I'm sorry, but I burst out laughing when I saw this. In other words: errr... no. :D

[Hermit]

Out of the second set of choices, I like Number one... but ... well, with that lion drape in the parody picture. :)
Similar to what Liaden said (Gives credit where due)


(Actually, part of me thinks the lion costume design on the chest is too COOL for a villain, Kraven like or not)

[Rage]

Originally posted by Acroyear
Ok, kind of hot on the heels of the last one, here's Design Forum III

Again, keep in mind these are just the barest of bare bones doodles. Feel free to offer comments & mix and match (example: suit of #2 with the shoulders of #1, etc). Please vote even if you don't have any comments. The poll leader will get the most attention to revision work.

I expect this one should take a little longer... our description is very vague and gives us lots of possibilities!

Description:
How about a large man with a black and red costume with a lion motif? He is Hercules a villainous usurper to the name.

<img src="http://herogame.dans.cust.servlets.net/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=26155">

I really like 4 except perhaps a sort of dirty bronze, untreated iron as opposed to the red.

[majorvictory]

If this guy is a nutjob who thinks he's Herc, or even the real one gone bad (and, mythologically, that wouldn't be too much of a leap), these designs are far too modern. He should revel in his history, IMHO. The lion is a good start. I don't envy you this design. We've been indoctrinated by Marvel for years about how Herc should look. Even DC's version, Kamandi era, looked similar sans beard. :D

[Lord Liaden]

Originally posted by Hermit
(Actually, part of me thinks the lion costume design on the chest is too COOL for a villain, Kraven like or not)

I think Hermit is on to something here. My thought when I saw costume #3 was that this looked like a hero rather than a villain - bold, strong and stylish. This evil Herc needs something to harshen the image: studs on the hem of the kilt, spikes on the shoulder pads, fangs from the lion's mouth... something to give him a fiercer, more brutal appearance.

Heck, maybe a nasty, spikey club.

[Acroyear]

Originally posted by majorvictory
If this guy is a nutjob who thinks he's Herc, or even the real one gone bad (and, mythologically, that wouldn't be too much of a leap), these designs are far too modern.

That's a good point. I have been envisioning the brief description as just a modern strongman using the name... we don't know if he actually has the power of Hercules or if he's just Bulldozer trying to get some better PR. ;)

Anywho... here's some more hastily put together revisions.

for future comments, please specify revision group. This is group 2

[Acroyear]

No more revisions until tomorrow night at the earliest. Let's give these some time to soak in and see what people think.

Meanwhile, I'm already in the design stages for Forum IV ;)

[Blue]

And I thought the one with the business suit was funny! The boxers are great :D

But among the "legitimate" contenders, I'm having a hard time deciding.

[Hermit]

For Rev group 2, modern or not, I think I like #2. I think with that detailing you do in final stages, it will really come out nicely.

Bah, let others catch up? You just want to sleep or something. Sleep is for the Weak!
or is that week (Sometimes I feel like I could use 7 days)? I forget :)

[urbwar]

Originally posted by Acroyear
That's a good point. I have been envisioning the brief description as just a modern strongman using the name... we don't know if he actually has the power of Hercules or if he's just Bulldozer trying to get some better PR. ;)

Anywho... here's some more hastily put together revisions.

for future comments, please specify revision group. This is group 2

I like #1 myself, but #3 in this group is also cool. Not digging the barechested #4 though. Maybe because I have this image of Hercules having a hairy chest.

[urbwar]

Originally posted by Acroyear
Ok, kind of hot on the heels of the last one, here's Design Forum III

Again, keep in mind these are just the barest of bare bones doodles. Feel free to offer comments & mix and match (example: suit of #2 with the shoulders of #1, etc). Please vote even if you don't have any comments. The poll leader will get the most attention to revision work.

I expect this one should take a little longer... our description is very vague and gives us lots of possibilities!

Description:
How about a large man with a black and red costume with a lion motif? He is Hercules a villainous usurper to the name.

<img src="http://herogame.dans.cust.servlets.net/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=26155">

Of the original designs, I like #3. Maybe you could use it for a villain, possibly a foe/rival of the Herc you are designing?

#1 reminds me of Wolf from The Pack (Gargoyles cartoon). I liked that team! Even better when he became a mutate...

[Lord Liaden]

Originally posted by Acroyear
Meanwhile, I'm already in the design stages for Forum IV ;)

Riding a creative surge, are we? :) Well, go for it says I! We'll try to keep up.

Regarding Revision 2: I didn't think I'd like combining lion motifs like this, but the lionskin is really working for me, roughening up Hercules's visuals. Number 2 is starting to look good: I like the asymmetry of the two arms, and the bands and bracer on the right arm combined with the lionskin gives the character more of a mythic period feel, like majorvictory suggested. I think you could go further in that direction by leaving the legs bare between the boots and the kilt - maybe try switching those boots with the ones on #4. BTW, the black hair is definitely more villainous than brown.

I refuse to dignify #5 with a response. :p

[Enforcer84]

Originally posted by Acroyear
Ok, kind of hot on the heels of the last one, here's Design Forum III

Again, keep in mind these are just the barest of bare bones doodles. Feel free to offer comments & mix and match (example: suit of #2 with the shoulders of #1, etc). Please vote even if you don't have any comments. The poll leader will get the most attention to revision work.

I expect this one should take a little longer... our description is very vague and gives us lots of possibilities!

Description:
How about a large man with a black and red costume with a lion motif? He is Hercules a villainous usurper to the name.

<img src="http://herogame.dans.cust.servlets.net/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=26155">

Well he is an usurper of the name. An evil dopplegangar of the original who wreaks havoc on earth till the true herc returns.
I like them all. As amatter of fact one and four look very similar to the designs I had in my head. I like 3 with perhaps the lion shoulderpads in monochrome; all gold. He needs the beard too. I like #4's beard the best.
I was surprised the discussion has gone so far so quickly.

[winterhawk]

The second from Rev2. That's the one.

[death tribble]

I voted with design 1 but think you should use Design 2's lion bit on the chest. So that you have three lion heads.

And even though I am British you will not be stricken by the 3 Lions song in deference to the Scots who post here in particular.

[Space Cadet]

OK, I just got through scoping out Revisions Group #1, and I'd
have to say that #5's cape would definitely look good on #1.
In fact, the only change that I would make would be to move
the lionshead up on Evil Herc's noggin so that the bottom edge
of the upper jaw is sitting just above his eyes (this would be
in keeping with the way that the mythological Hercules wore
the pelt of the Nemean Lion after he managed to kill it).

Space Cadet:cool:

[Acroyear]

Originally posted by Hermit
Bah, let others catch up? You just want to sleep or something. Sleep is for the Weak!
or is that week (Sometimes I feel like I could use 7 days)? I forget :)

No, sleep is for the people who have to wake up very early and then go manage an office for an 11hour long day.

And, look... the poll has taken a major turn since I left...

Voters of original #1 - anything about that design you might want to comment on... what bits you liked, etc?

What about #1 with the full pelt (from revisions) and the big spikey arm guard from #4? Or the red dart on the chest as a toned down lionhead from #2?

[MisterVimes]

Looking at the latest revisions, I have to go with #1. I like the belting on the arm. #3 is a close second.

[death tribble]

Tone down lion head ? Good lord No !
Emphasie the Lionhead Design 2 and have the two big lion motifs on the shoulders as per design 1.

And if we have a spikey arm guard on one arm, then a spikey arm guard for the other as well.

[Acroyear]

Originally posted by death tribble
And if we have a spikey arm guard on one arm, then a spikey arm guard for the other as well.

I had a sort of gladiator idea there. One arm for blockin' and the other for poundin' (or puttin' around the ladieeez) ;)

[SuperPheemy]

I like the body styling on #1 (big, broad chest) and the costume of #4. Keep the beard. Lose the suspenders and add the stylized chest from #2.

Set to frappe' and mix for 90 seconds.

[Hermit]

Lather, rinse, repeat ...
;)

[Lord Liaden]

Originally posted by Acroyear
I had a sort of gladiator idea there. One arm for blockin' and the other for poundin' (or puttin' around the ladieeez) ;)

If we go with the lion pelt with the head on one shoulder only, then I think that that would make sense.

But my goodness, opinions have grown diverse, haven't they? Maybe it doesn't pay to draw too fast. ;) I stand by my earlier suggestions, but it seems folks want more options.

Still, I get the impression that some people are commenting without having looked at the subsequent revisions. Folks, I suggest you read back over the thread; there are links to two revisions Acroyear has done since he posted the first batch of designs, and you might want to consider those too. (Acroyear, perhaps you could put the links to Rev. 1 and 2 into a single post, so people could conveniently check them?)

[Supreme]

My vote was for #2, but ditch the blond hair. He needs a darker look to be more menacing. #3 looks good too, but the lion motif isn't developed enough in that one. I definitely prefer the lion motif of #2. Of course the straps and studs of #4 also look good (oh, go ahead and make your comments...).

[Hermit]

Originally posted by Acroyear
I had a sort of gladiator idea there. One arm for blockin' and the other for poundin' (or puttin' around the ladieeez) ;)

That's what I figured, I thought it looked pretty good. I forget what that part of a gladiator's armor is called, but it fits.

[JmOz]

Have not read the thread yet, voted for 3, but would prefer to see #2 breastplate and #1 head on it

[Acroyear]

Originally posted by JmOz
Have not read the thread yet, voted for 3, but would prefer to see #2 breastplate and #1 head on it

Cool beans.

Yeah, just because we run with one angle initially doesn't mean we're locked. That's what erasers are for... er, the delete key. You get the idea :)

One of the main variants was different style "capes." With a new leader in the poll (and staying strong), I might work on some variants of initial design #1

(and if you think this one is madness... wait until you see the crazy stuff coming in CDF IV)

[Kevin Scrivner]

I like Revision 2, No. 2 best, although the off-the-shoulder cape design from Revision 1, No. 3 was nifty. The skin cape idea was interesting, but that lion mask ... eek! I'd be "lion" if I said otherwise. Maybe just the mane encircling his head would work, like a fur-lined parka.

While Hercules might wear the Armani suit when off-duty, especially when entertaining the ladies, I can't see it as his battling duds. If you go with the boxer shorts design, ol' Herc BETTER be one bad boy! What about a lion-skin loincloth? If so, hair on the chest is a must.

[Dynamo]

OK, here goes...

Costume from rev1 grp2;
Hair/beard style & color from original #1, but keep the headband from rev1 grp2;
Boots from rev4 grp2

I like the draped lionskin in grp2 (all but #1), but it feels redundant with the lion theme on the torso.

[Acroyear]

Here are a couple revisions based on designs #1 & #4 (original) our current poll leaders...

[winterhawk]

#4 of latest revision...Almost has a Jack Kirby feel to it. Very nice work.

[urbwar]

Originally posted by Acroyear
Here are a couple revisions based on designs #1 & #4 (original) our current poll leaders...

I like #1 best, with #3 coming in a close second

[Enforcer84]

Originally posted by Acroyear
Here are a couple revisions based on designs #1 & #4 (original) our current poll leaders...

I like 1 & 3 the best of these.

[Lord Liaden]

Something about these revision 3 designs is more "villainous" than the last batch; harsher somehow. I think you're on the right track.

These have a gladiator feel (and I still like the bracer on one arm) but with a modern esthetic. I favor #1 and #3: the lion head epaulets seem to work with this design, unlike the earlier ones. It's a close call between these two, but I'd vote for #1 - all the solid black areas look grimmer, and the detail on the wristband and greaves stands out better.

I do think that the lion heads are so much brighter than the rest that they really draw all the attention. Perhaps you could use that bright red for the "H" on the belt, and maybe change the belt color to match the tan of the lion skin. Another possibility would be to darken the mane and skin of the heads to the shades on the belt. That would definitely make the whole ensemble more somber.

[Hermit]

Originally posted by Acroyear
Here are a couple revisions based on designs #1 & #4 (original) our current poll leaders...
Out of Rev #3, I like 4.
Black and Red just look more 'evil' to me than Gray and Red.
:)

[Lord Liaden]

...why the draped lionskin isn't working for me with rev. 3 as it did in rev. 2. I think it needs the pad on the left shoulder from rev. 2 to balance the bulk of the lion's head on the right side.

[Acroyear]

Doh

The gray areas are supposed to be black. I was using a dark gray so as not to lose my lines.

I'll work on a final proposal

[Acroyear]

How's this?

[urbwar]

Originally posted by Acroyear
How's this?

I like it. I missed that the left arm bracer no longer has the studs on it. I would have liked to see the left arm have studs as well, but I think this one works well. Are you going to stick with grey, or finalize his costume with black?

[Lord Liaden]

Originally posted by Acroyear
How's this?

Overall, pretty sweet. Is this the "final final" version, or are you still soliciting suggestions?

And why do people keep mentioning grey? I don't see any grey on the image that I downloaded - only black. Do I have a problem?

[Acroyear]

Depends on your monitor settings, LL. I am using a very dark gray instead of black to represent black (darker than the earlier proposals). If your monitor is set with more brightness, it'll be more obvious. If it's set real bright, it'll look much more gray than it should.

I wanted to use the dark gray so that I could still get some shading in there in the final. Otherwise, I'd have to switch to highlights which, accordig to the style, is limited to glossy leathers, metals and the like. My main concern is the legs, especially in the crotch region. I didn't want it to look too blobby. I also see him as more dull than shiny, overall (even the guard thingies are a matte finish).

Oh, and I chipped one of the lion teeth ;) Ditched the fingerless single glove and colored the shoe portions to match the shin guards. Added studs to the shins, too. Seemed cool at the moment.

This isn't final-final, but it's a big foot in the final door.

[Acroyear]

...and I'm probably going to use the draped lion skin idea in another design in the future. heh heh

[Kevin Scrivner]

The "final" version is attractive, although I have a soft spot for that unconventional lion toga look from your earlier revisions. Your final product works but is more of a standard supervillain suit.

I have it! Evil Herc has Instant Change (or Shapeshifting, or whatever power they're using for it this edition) with the -2 limit No Conscious Control. You get to use all your designs since he gets a different look each time he transforms into his villainous ID. :)

[Acroyear]

Originally posted by Kevin Scrivner
I have it! Evil Herc has Instant Change (or Shapeshifting, or whatever power they're using for it this edition) with the -2 limit No Conscious Control. You get to use all your designs since he gets a different look each time he transforms into his villainous ID. :)

Heh heh.

Well, if anyone wants to work up more polished versions of any of the designs (including other CDF's) please feel free. This is all for funsies. As the submitters are informed... the price? You get what the consensus seems to be in the end. ;)

[Enforcer84]

I like it alot. Very good job indeed.
Thanks

[Lord Liaden]

This is a cool design, but I would still like to see the belt in the colors of the lions' heads - they seem to stand out a bit excessively. The studs on the greaves may be a little much, but I understand why you added them, and they're certainly not killing me.

I actually would have liked to continue the evolution of the other costume design, but as you say, majority rules. Considering that board traffic is lighter on the weekend, though, maybe it would pay to leave this last version alone for a couple of days, to give more folks a chance to express their views. :)

[Lord Liaden]

Originally posted by Enforcer84
I like it alot. Very good job indeed.
Thanks

Well, this is the man who made the initial submission, so if he's happy, who am I to nitpick?

[Acroyear]

Originally posted by Lord Liaden
Well, this is the man who made the initial submission, so if he's happy, who am I to nitpick?

It's the price of admission, so to speak, to bow to the group design ;)

I'll try the belt in the lion head color. Gimme a minute or two (assuming I'm not too Dr. Funk to keep a steady enough hand right now...wheee)

[Acroyear]

I went a little more of a dull color since it's leather-ish and not fur.

[Enforcer84]

Allright, I had my fun. Whose next???

[Acroyear]

Originally posted by Enforcer84
Allright, I had my fun. Whose next???

The next one is almost guaranteed to draw the most "blargh!" votes... heh heh.

It's actually ready to go, too. I just wanted to finish one before I kicked off the next one.

[Enforcer84]

Here is the character himself!

hmm lets try that again...

[Lord Liaden]

Originally posted by Acroyear
I went a little more of a dull color since it's leather-ish and not fur.

That's what I'm talking about! That was the missing piece to balance all the elements in the composition.

FWIW, I'm now a happy camper. Fine work, Acroyear.

On to #4!

[death tribble]

The lion heads are the shoulders give a real menacing look. Glad you restored that.

[Supreme]

Originally posted by Acroyear
Here are a couple revisions based on designs #1 & #4 (original) our current poll leaders...
Quite cool. Though personally, I'd try to go with only one lion head, as there was only one Nemean Lion, but that's me. A Nit-Picker Supreme.