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Enforcer84

Mar 20th, '03, 09:44 PM

One of the things I like about RPG's over comics, characters grow in RPG's in a steadier, more believable rate. Comics thend to fall back to the status quo after a few months or years, change is rare and often shortlived.
Champiuons creates a living, breathing world that moves on with time.
Now I am asking for a little help with the evolution of a villain team.

The Ultimates are one of my guilty pleasures. I like them. However, I was not as pleased with the "Ultimate Mastermind" vision of the future for binder. Keeping in tune with his current powers what abilities would you give Binder as he gains experience?
Clingning makes sense, perhaps a counter solvent to make escapes easier, some more/better Martial Arts maneuvers, but what else?

Heck what would you do to any of them?

Mutant for Hire

Mar 21st, '03, 04:28 AM

He has an accident with his equipment and becomes a living glue monster.

zen_hydra

Mar 21st, '03, 05:47 AM

I think just expanding out Binder's Glue Gun in a manner like that of Spiderman's web-spinning versatility could go a long way in making Binder a better villain. Also, an array of gadgets (glue themed, or not) would be an improvement.

Acroyear

Mar 21st, '03, 07:16 AM

He ditches the "gun" focus and incorporates the glue gun(s) into his armor so his hands are kept free and he's not as easy to disarm.

I imagine that if he gets access to the tech, he'd do a lot of expansion in enhanced senses for his armor, too... which would help him in his thieving ways, with battlefield tactics, etc. Remember, he's a brainy mastermind guy... he hates surprises. More input means better decisions (also, he builds gizmos for the team... not radios, but cameras, etc, etc... so he can keep track of where everyone is, what they see, etc).

Also, expand on his skills... and keep doing so. He's soaking up scientific knowledge like crazy. The more he knows, the more power he has.

The inclusion of Cyclone was a mistake, imo. Now Binder has a whole additional tech to analyze, etc. There's no reason for him not to duplicate any system he sees a use for and incorporate it into his own battlesuit.

zen_hydra

Mar 21st, '03, 07:25 AM

I like the camera idea. How about camera/radio transmitters that send a constant scrambled feed to him from his teammates as well as any other units he has tactically placed, and this info is displayed through a HUD with possibly an onboard computer for analysis? He could be a master at coordinating attacks (especially with a computer's tactical analysis) Perhaps an array of traps/mines to allow him to control the battlefield even more.

Hermit

Mar 21st, '03, 07:32 AM

I don't have the 5th Edition version of Binder....

but one idea might be a few effects linked to certain entangle effects.

Imagine an NND, much like a ranged choke hold that simulates a wrap around a foe's neck?

an 'acidic' oil on one entangle, not only does it trap you, it starts to burn (Continous RKA linked to Entangle?)

and others...

Enforcer84

Mar 21st, '03, 02:04 PM

Wow. These are great ideas. I like the sensory imput and the attack based entangles! Very cool.

Here is what I have done to him Its about 75 pts of improvement...

Binder

Player:

<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right">Val  </td><td>Char   </td><td>Cost</td></tr><tr><td align="right">15  </td><td>STR</td><td>5</td></tr><tr><td align="right">20  </td><td>DEX</td><td>30</td></tr><tr><td align="right">20  </td><td>CON</td><td>20</td></tr><tr><td align="right">12  </td><td>BODY</td><td>4</td></tr><tr><td align="right">23  </td><td>INT</td><td>13</td></tr><tr><td align="right">14  </td><td>EGO</td><td>8</td></tr><tr><td align="right">20  </td><td>PRE</td><td>10</td></tr><tr><td align="right">4  </td><td>COM</td><td>-3</td></tr><tr><td></td><td> </td><td></td></tr><tr><td align="right">19  </td><td>PD</td><td>5</td></tr><tr><td align="right">19  </td><td>ED</td><td>4</td></tr><tr><td align="right">5  </td><td>SPD</td><td>20</td></tr><tr><td align="right">7  </td><td>REC</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">40  </td><td>END</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">40  </td><td>STUN</td><td>10</td></tr><td></td><td> </td><td></td></tr><tr><td align="right">6"  </td><td>RUN</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">2"  </td><td>SWIM</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">3"  </td><td>LEAP</td><td>0</td></tr></table>Characteristics Cost: 126

<table border="0" cellpadding="0"><tr><td align="right">Cost  </td><td>Power</td><td align="right">END</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">75  </td><td>Glue Guantlets: Multipower, 90-point reserve, all slots: , 32 Charges (+1/4) (112 Active Points); OIF (-1/2) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">6u  </td><td>1) Narrow Glue-Beam: Entangle 6d6, 8 DEF, Entangle And Character Both Take Damage (+1/4) (87 Active Points) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">6u  </td><td>2) Wide Glue-Beam: Entangle 4d6, 4 DEF, Entangle And Character Both Take Damage (+1/4), Area Of Effect (5" Radius; +1) (90 Active Points) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">6u  </td><td>3) Glue-Stream: Entangle 4d6, 4 DEF, Entangle And Character Both Take Damage (+1/4), Area Of Effect (20" Line; +1) (90 Active Points) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">6u  </td><td>4) Glue-Blob: Entangle 5d6, 5 DEF, Entangle And Character Both Take Damage (+1/4), Area Of Effect (One Hex; +1/2) (87 Active Points) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">1u  </td><td>5) Swingline: Swinging 12" (12 Active Points) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">22  </td><td>Armored Costume: Armor (11 PD / 11 ED) (33 Active Points); OIF (-1/2) (added to Primary Value) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">8  </td><td>Adhesive aided climbing: Clinging (20 STR) (12 Active Points); OIF (Armor) (-1/2) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">13  </td><td>Corrosive Glue: Killing Attack - Ranged 1d6 (vs. ED), Uncontrolled (+1/2), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2) (37 Active Points); 4 Charges (-1), OIF (-1/2), Linked (To any slot in Multipower) (-1/4) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">7  </td><td>Polarized Faceplate: Flash Defense (10 points) (Sight Group) (10 Active Points); OIF (-1/2) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">7  </td><td>Helmet Air Supply: Life Support (Self-Contained Breathing) (10 Active Points); OIF (-1/2) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">24  </td><td>Jetboots: Flight 18" (36 Active Points); OIF (-1/2) </td><td valign="top" align="right">4</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">6  </td><td>Helmet Communicator: High Range Radio Perception (12 Active Points); Sense Affected As Sight And Hearing Group As Well As Radio Group (-1/2), OIF (-1/2) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">19  </td><td>Video Relays: Clairsentience (Hearing Group; Additional Sense Group: Hearing Group, Concealed (-2 to PER Roll), x8 Range) (47 Active Points); Only Through The Senses Of Others (-1/2), OIF - Helmet (-1/2), Sense Affected As Sight & Hearing (-1/4), Linked to Scrambled Team Link (-1/4) </td><td valign="top" align="right">5</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">14  </td><td>Scrambled Team Link: Mind Link (Specific Group of Minds; No LOS Needed, Number of Minds (x8)) (35 Active Points); Only With Others Who Have Mind Link (-1), OIF (-1/2) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">3  </td><td>Heat Detection Lenses: Infrared Perception (5 Active Points); OIF (-1/2) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr></table>Powers Cost: 223

<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right">Cost  </td><td>Martial Arts Maneuver</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">  </td><td>Generic Martial Arts </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">4  </td><td>1) Block: 1/2 Phase, +2 OCV, +2 DCV, Block, Abort </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">4  </td><td>2) Dodge: 1/2 Phase, -- OCV, +5 DCV, Dodge, Affects All Attacks, Abort </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">5  </td><td>3) Kick: 1/2 Phase, -2 OCV, +1 DCV, STR +4d6 Strike </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">4  </td><td>4) Punch: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +2 DCV, STR +2d6 Strike </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>5) Throw: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +1 DCV, STR +v/5, Target Falls </td></tr></table>Martial Arts Cost: 20

<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right">Cost  </td><td>Skill</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">12  </td><td>+4 with Glue-Guantlets Multipower </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">  </td><td> </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Bureaucratics 13- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Combat Piloting 13- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Computer Programming 14- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Cryptography 14- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Demolitions 14- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Electronics 14- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Inventor 14- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">1  </td><td>CK: Geneva 8- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">2  </td><td>CK: Millennium City 11- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>KS: Literature (INT-based) 14- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>KS: The Superhuman World (INT-based) 14- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">2  </td><td>KS: UNTIL 11- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">1  </td><td>Language: French: Basic Conversation  </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Persuasion 13- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">2  </td><td>PS: Play Chess 11- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Security Systems 14- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Stealth 13- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Systems Operation 14- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Tactics 14- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Teamwork 13- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>TF: Combat Aircraft, Helicopters, Large Planes, Small Planes </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Scientist </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">4  </td><td>1) SS: Adhesives & Solvents (INT-based) (5 Active Points) 16- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">2  </td><td>2) SS: Biology (INT-based) (3 Active Points) 14- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">2  </td><td>3) SS: Chemical Engineering (INT-based) (3 Active Points) 14- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">2  </td><td>4) SS: Chemistry (INT-based) (3 Active Points) 14- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">2  </td><td>5) SS: Computer Science (INT-based) (3 Active Points) 14- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">2  </td><td>6) SS: Mathematics (INT-based) (3 Active Points) 14- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">2  </td><td>7) SS: Nuclear Physics (INT-based) (3 Active Points) 14- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">2  </td><td>8) SS: Physics (INT-based) (3 Active Points) 14- </td></tr></table>Skills Cost: 89

<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right">Cost  </td><td>Perk</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">15  </td><td>Base: Contribution to Ultimate's base </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">10  </td><td>Vehicle: Contribution to Starbird </td></tr></table>Perks Cost: 25

Total Character Cost: 483

<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right">Val  </td><td>Disadvantages</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">15  </td><td>Distinctive Features: Facial Scarring, Concealable, Always Noticed and Causes Major Reaction, Detectable By Commonly-Used Senses </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">20  </td><td>Hunted: UNTIL, More Powerful, 8- (Occasionally), Harshly Punish, Extensive Non-Combat Influence </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">20  </td><td>Hunted: The Champions, More Powerful, 8- (Occasionally), Harshly Punish, Extensive Non-Combat Influence </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">20  </td><td>Psychological Limitation: Inferiority Complex Tinged With Paranoia, Very Common, Strong </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">10  </td><td>Psychological Limitation: Sensitive About His Looks, Common, Moderate </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">15  </td><td>Reputation: wanted and dangerous supervillain, Frequently (11-), Extreme </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">15  </td><td>Social Limitation: Secret Identity (Earl Whitacker), Frequently (11-), Major </td></tr></table>
Disadvantage Points: 115

Base Points: 200
Experience Required: 168
Total Experience Available: 200
Experience Unspent: 32

TheEmerged

Mar 21st, '03, 02:48 PM

I love theoreticals :D

/* cracks knuckles
/* opens CKC to page 102-104

Operating Assumption: Binder is my character as a PC in a villain campaign.

Dead Horse Notice #1: Bypass discussion about his defenses, since Steve Long and I obviously have very different opinions of what is appropriate.

Dead Horse Notice #2: Look maw, it's a battlesuit character that draws END from the user's biological energy!

Initial Writeup Correction #1: Binder violates the TheEmerged Skill Enhancer rule -- he has 3 KS's but not Scholar. So for the long term, if he's my character he starts with Scholar (no change in points).

Initial Writeup Correction #2: Binder lacks Weaponsmith. Guy has a PS: to play chess, but not one of the skills he needs to make his own equipment... Points for this can be arranged by lessening a few of those science skills to 11- for now, or the Perks.

Initial Writeup Correction #3: PS is inappropriate, should be Scientist if it's anything... Gambling: Board Games is the appropriate skill/specialization for Chess under 5th.

GM Specific Correction: Were I the GM, he'd be required to take TF: Battlesuit as well.

--------------------------------

First Purhcases: buy the science skills or Perks "shorted" to pay for the initial corrections.

--------------------------------

Okay, now to actually get to work on evolving him :D

First and most notable issue: secondary targetting sense. The ability to sense your opponent is simply too important to bypass, IMO. Radar is usually the most appropriate for a battlesuit type, and can be snagged for 10 points (15 active, OIF) without much trickery, 8 points if you throw in "Flashed as "Sight" group as well". If I'm designing him this is a bigger prioirty than Flash Defense, but I've already criticized too much.

Secondly, boy needs a little Mental Defense, even if it's not much. I find it hard to believe someone that fancies themselves a master villain with a "inferiority complex tinged with paranoia" in a super-powered campaign world in which mentalists exist is going to be walking around with 10 Flash Def but no MD, unless the GM has decided that MD is something rare/unobtainable via technology. Given the likelihood that such countermeasures are available (to protect non-super politicians & generals if nothing else), I'd say Binder can swing it.

Third priority is another slot in the multipower: Dispel vs any one power of Mechanical special effect (as GM I'd rule this as a +1/2 advantage because the special effect is so broad). That would leave 60 points under Binder's multipower, enough for a 20d6 Dispel (70 active on average). Effect would be gluing the gears/locking the moving parts.

Dispel is a terribly under-rated power that is especially effective against certain constructs like Continuing/Fuel Charges. This slot would give Binder an edge against many technological opponents, and in my opinion appropriate to the character.

Fourth priority would be the "psi-breaker" entangle slot for his multipower: Opaque to Normal Sight and Mind Scan. 4d6, +4 DEF (8 final), and "Both Take Damage comes in at 87 active, 4 points real as a slot. You could also drop the DEF down to +2 (6 final) to have Opaque to Sight & Mental Groups instead, if you felt it more appropriate.

Priorities after this depend on the opposition he finds himself against, and which Dead Horses you feel the need to beat. One that jumps out screaming at me is the prospect of putting Difficult to Dispel on the Life Support & Flight (dispel flight + altitude = trouble). Another possibility is giving Binder a special defense against entangles -- even something as simple as Martial Escape and some DC's.

Patriot

Mar 21st, '03, 03:19 PM

Killing him would be a good start.

Enforcer84

Mar 21st, '03, 03:54 PM

Originally posted by TheEmerged
I love theoreticals :D

/* cracks knuckles
/* opens CKC to page 102-104

*snipped the critiques of Binder *

--------------------------------

Okay, now to actually get to work on evolving him :D

First and most notable issue: secondary targetting sense. The ability to sense your opponent is simply too important to bypass, IMO. Radar is usually the most appropriate for a battlesuit type, and can be snagged for 10 points (15 active, OIF) without much trickery, 8 points if you throw in "Flashed as "Sight" group as well". If I'm designing him this is a bigger prioirty than Flash Defense, but I've already criticized too much.

Secondly, boy needs a little Mental Defense, even if it's not much. I find it hard to believe someone that fancies themselves a master villain with a "inferiority complex tinged with paranoia" in a super-powered campaign world in which mentalists exist is going to be walking around with 10 Flash Def but no MD, unless the GM has decided that MD is something rare/unobtainable via technology. Given the likelihood that such countermeasures are available (to protect non-super politicians & generals if nothing else), I'd say Binder can swing it.

Third priority is another slot in the multipower: Dispel vs any one power of Mechanical special effect (as GM I'd rule this as a +1/2 advantage because the special effect is so broad). That would leave 60 points under Binder's multipower, enough for a 20d6 Dispel (70 active on average). Effect would be gluing the gears/locking the moving parts.

Dispel is a terribly under-rated power that is especially effective against certain constructs like Continuing/Fuel Charges. This slot would give Binder an edge against many technological opponents, and in my opinion appropriate to the character.

Fourth priority would be the "psi-breaker" entangle slot for his multipower: Opaque to Normal Sight and Mind Scan. 4d6, +4 DEF (8 final), and "Both Take Damage comes in at 87 active, 4 points real as a slot. You could also drop the DEF down to +2 (6 final) to have Opaque to Sight & Mental Groups instead, if you felt it more appropriate.

Priorities after this depend on the opposition he finds himself against, and which Dead Horses you feel the need to beat. One that jumps out screaming at me is the prospect of putting Difficult to Dispel on the Life Support & Flight (dispel flight + altitude = trouble). Another possibility is giving Binder a special defense against entangles -- even something as simple as Martial Escape and some DC's.

I like it! I hadn't thought of gumming up the works! I was thinking about an anti-entangle, hadn't liked any of the ideas I had for it yet...

TheEmerged

Mar 21st, '03, 05:26 PM

Glad to help. And just so you know, I was critiquing the "official" version -- yours wasn't up when I started typing.

Enforcer84

Mar 21st, '03, 05:35 PM

That's what I figured. You hadn't really singled out any of my changes after all...I was just saving some space.