[Magic System] Piedregamas

[Killer Shrike]

Expanded the Piedragamas variant of <a href="http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/GreyHEROContent/PackageDeals/totemicPackages.shtml" target="_blank">Totemic Shamanism</a> into its own seperate document.

Will add some more Package Deals and get it crosslinked w/ other pages later, but here is the current version.

Added 50 more powers to the system in the last 24 hours, and a method of making (temporary) Magic Items.


<iframe src="http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/GreyHEROContent/PackageDeals/piedragemasPackages.shtml" height=500 width=100%></iframe><ilayer src="http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/GreyHEROContent/PackageDeals/piedragemasPackages.shtml" height=500 width=100%></ilayer>

[Killer Shrike]

Any thoughts?

[tgaptte]

Very cool ideas. As always your efforts and your willingness to share with us is MOST appreciated!

Keep up the good work.

Tim

[Killer Shrike]

Very cool ideas. As always your efforts and your willingness to share with us is MOST appreciated!

Keep up the good work.

Tim
Thanx. The Familiarity Based systems are pretty out there in terms of effect, and Im a little concerned/interested in others perceptions on whether these Styles (Piedregamas and Totemic Shamanism) are too powerful or not. They seem to compare favorably to my other Magic Systems on "eyeball" comparisons, though obviously balancing differently at higher and lower point scales.

Both styles seem to be most potent at lower points due to its heavy discounting, and weakest at higher points due to its low AP curve. However, it really shines as an augmentitive or "dabbler-friendly" set, since practitioners can have points left over for other things.

Unfortunately, the practitioners of these styles that I worked into my setting exist on the eastern fringe of the campaign setting, so I havent yet managed to work one into play to see firsthand how effective they are

[Bazza]

Thanx. The Familiarity Based systems are pretty out there in terms of effect, and Im a little concerned/interested in others perceptions on whether these Styles (Piedregamas and Totemic Shamanism) are too powerful or not. They seem to compare favorably to my other Magic Systems on "eyeball" comparisons, though obviously balancing differently at higher and lower point scales.

Both styles seem to be most potent at lower points due to its heavy discounting, and weakest at higher points due to its low AP curve. However, it really shines as an augmentitive or "dabbler-friendly" set, since practitioners can have points left over for other things.KS, I breifly read/skimmed the system. :thumbup: on the detail. I wouldn't be too concerned about the system fizzing out at higher levels compared to the lower levels.

Example: I played in a D&D game that used the RQ spell system converted to D&D. This system, battlemagic (spirit based magic), was great at lower "class levels" but when my mage gained 10+ levels the trad D&D magic become more powerful than battlemagic. battlemagic was still greatly beneficial, as the RQness added options that D&D didn't have (and still doesn't have).

If you do use Piedregamas, I'm sure magic users who "specialize" in another magic system will take a few spells in this system to get a boost in the early parts of their career. When the bell curve is reached and Piedregamas evens out, the magic users who have "specialized" in another system, will feel rewarded for their dedication and can now use their higher powered spells. Piedragemasi can take other Gemstone "specialties" and get the bous +2 (eg Ruby Magic, Amber Magic)

Gemstone magic is cool.

[Blue Jogger]

Ok, I'm stumped. I'm not sure why Piedregamas have the restriction on END Reserves.

It appears that there is an inherent limitation in Gem magic that it can only amplify the internal energies of the caster to produce a spell effect. But, it doesn't explain why a Gem mage would have less internal energies than say a typical mage or sorcerer (that is allowed an END reserve).

You also said that Piedregamas can not take the Focus Limitation, and then did all the spells with OIF. I'm guessing it's actually the -1/2 ERe (Easily Restrainable).

Overall, good job, I just love to nitpick.

[Killer Shrike]

Ok, I'm stumped. I'm not sure why Piedregamas have the restriction on END Reserves.

It appears that there is an inherent limitation in Gem magic that it can only amplify the internal energies of the caster to produce a spell effect. But, it doesn't explain why a Gem mage would have less internal energies than say a typical mage or sorcerer (that is allowed an END reserve).

OK, complicated question. My favorite kind :D

Here we go (and it's going to run on a bit):

For starters within the confines of my various Magic Systems, Mages are on a Spell Skill system, and do use END Reserves. They must pay for each Spell as a Skill, which is all detailed here:

http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/GreyHEROContent/PackageDeals/magicianPackages.shtml

Sorcerors on the other hand are on a overlapping Multipower system, and its all Charge based:

http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/GreyHEROContent/PackageDeals/sorcererPackages.shtml

Wizards are on a VPP System, also Charge based. There is also a major variant of Wizardry called Arcanis Magnicus, practitioners of which are called Magni that is also Charge Based on a mechanic I call a "Spell Level Gestalt":

http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/GreyHEROContent/PackageDeals/wizardPackages.shtml

Sortiligists and Elementalists are more of flavor variants, and can be used with any one of the above three mechanics interchangeably (Sorcery, Wizardry, Arcanis Magnicus), though I favor Sorcery for both.

http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/GreyHEROContent/PackageDeals/sortilegePackages.shtml
http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/GreyHEROContent/PackageDeals/elementalPackages.shtml

Adepts use a Cosmic VPP, and are END based. They may have an END Reserve. This system also has some mandatory LTE penalties for using the high end of their VPP on a graded scale.

http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/GreyHEROContent/PackageDeals/adeptPackages.shtml

Aeldenaren are EC based, and may have an END Reserve.

http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/GreyHEROContent/PackageDeals/aeldenarenPackages.shtml

Finally Spellweavers are another form of Skill based Magic Users; in that system you buy a Skill with a Base Power like Energy Blast or Force Field, and it functions like a mini-VPP only for Powers of that type. Its a powerful sort of Magic, but has a complicated model of penaltys to keep it in check. Spellweavers also may not use END Reserves.

http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/GreyHEROContent/PackageDeals/spellweaverPackages.shtml

Ok, so on to the meat of it. Both Charges and END costs are forms of Volume and Frequency Controls, meaning both serve to limit how often and how many Spells (or other effect) a Magic User can use.

Charges have Hi Frequency, but Low Volume in general -- you can blow thru as many Charages as you have, but you will run out soon.

END is Low Frequency, but High Volume -- you will run out of END, but with rest you get more and can go again.

END via a Reserve is usually Med Frequency and Medium Volume -- you'll have more starting END, but it recovers slower than personal END since you cant "take a Recovery" to speed it up.

LTE costs is another way to approach this as well, which imposes a threshold, diminishing returns, or "overheat" type cap on the back end of END based systems -- you can burn thru your END and Recover it back, but the more LTE you accrue, the lower your capacity until you give it time to seep off.

Basically Spell Systems that are END based have an advantage over Charge based Systems in that END can be Recovered quickly in the HERO System. Further, END Reserves are cheap; a 100 END/1 REC Reserve costs 11 points and only takes 20 minutes to refill; in most situations 100 END would be plenty to cover an altercation, and the Reserve will likely be full again by the next altercation.

So Systems that are END Based can allow practitioners to cast all day long. Systems that are Charge based have other advantages, being "fire & forget", but a practitioner of a Charge based System must conserve.



There are other types of Control Factors involved as well. So when I look at individual Magic Systems, since I want them to all be usable together if desired (though some will excel at different point strata, or be better in certain situations), I'm trying to balance them against each other. This generally consists of gauging their strengths and weaknesses, and applying Control Factors until a form of parity is reached.

In the case of Piedragemas, it doesnt have many Control Factors on it because its a set list system with low Active Points. As it says under GMs Notes: "This system is primarily restricted by Acquisistion, Applicability, and Point Cap Controls. Required Personal END costs also impose Frequency Control."

So:
having to take the powers in a certain order (must take Basic to get Advanced, must have 2 of each to get to Signature) is a light form of Acquisition Control
a set list of powers is a hard form of Acquisition Control
since the style as currently given doesnt cover a lot of ground, it has a light form of Applicability Control -- none of the Gemstone sets currently allow Flight or EDM for example
more significantly since the System is limited to a max of 45 Active Points, it cant acheive the same kind of raw power of a system like Wizardry, which scales up to 150 AP or beyond at the GM's discretion; this is a hard form of a Point Cap control


So where does that leave us? You've still got a very inexpensive Magic System, where a person could drop 20 points and get 4 30 AP Powers and 2 45 AP Powers right off the bat. Thats a lot of Powers very cheap. None of the other non-Familiarity based Systems can match that right off the bat. So a Piedragemasi can have a lot of Powers at low point levels. If they can use them a lot it makes them pretty powerful; more powerful than intended. They need another type of Control Factor. Since the main concern is using their many powers frequently, a Volume & Frequency Control seems to be recommended.

I could have imposed an LTE limit, but the AP's being tossed around are so small the END costs are very low, lessening the impact of LTE. And really, I dont think it would be overwhelming for a Piedragemas to, say, shoot 20 Ruby Blasts a day -- I just think it would be strong if they could do it 20 times in a row. So really what I want for them is a Low Frequency, High Volume set up. Thus, Personal END only.

A GM wanting them to be more powerful could certainly allow them an END Reserve, but my judgement call indicates that Med Frequency, Med Volume is a little on the strong side for them considering the overall cost of their abilities and relatively mild Control Factors the system functions under overall.


Hope that made sense. Short answer: Its a form of Control limiting the Magic Systems use in an attempt to balance it against other Magic Systems that might also be in play.





You also said that Piedregamas can not take the Focus Limitation, and then did all the spells with OIF. I'm guessing it's actually the -1/2 ERe (Easily Restrainable).

Oops! A Cut and Paste error. Totemic Shaman cant use FOCI for their Powers; and I typed over that document to make this one (originally Piedragemas was presented in the Totemic Shaman document as an example variant).

Ill change that line to MUST use FOCI.


Overall, good job, I just love to nitpick.

Want to be my editor? No money in it, but I can offer the same "undying gratitude" DoJ offers playtesters, and a prominent mention on the website :D