No Origins Nomination? [Archive] - HERO Games Discussion Boards

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Blue

Mar 28th, '03, 10:47 AM

Hero System 5th edition has been mugged.

Just had to voice my disgust.

SuperPheemy

Mar 28th, '03, 10:52 AM

I'd been hearing that the last couple of years the Origins Awards have really started going downhill. This proves it.

SuperPheemy

Mar 28th, '03, 11:30 AM

You know, I'm so peeved about this that I can't even come up with a decent CLOWN lampoon to illustrate the absurdity.

Aroooo

Mar 28th, '03, 11:38 AM

I have not been to Origins in years, mainly because I never have the time - but I see I haven't missed much. Steve has a note in today's news about a write in campaign. I'm all for it!

Aroooo

TheEmerged

Mar 28th, '03, 12:28 PM

Gang, correct me if I'm wrong about this: but wasn't Origins one of the conventions Wizards effecitvely bought a few years back?

Aroooo

Mar 28th, '03, 12:30 PM

Originally posted by TheEmerged
Gang, correct me if I'm wrong about this: but wasn't Origins one of the conventions Wizards effecitvely bought a few years back?

Yup, I believe so.

Aroooo

Darren Watts

Mar 28th, '03, 01:16 PM

Origins is actually run by GAMA, the Game Manufacturers Association., and the Origins awards by the Academy of Adventure Games Arts and Design (AAGAD.) WOTC is not involved with either. dw

TheEmerged

Mar 28th, '03, 01:40 PM

Okay, thanks for the clarification.

Yamo

Mar 28th, '03, 02:35 PM

Besides, you don't need a conspiracy theory when Occam's Razor would seem to indicate a more down-to-earth explaination: The people making these nominations can't tell a good game from a hole in the ground.

Oh, well.

TheEmerged

Mar 28th, '03, 02:43 PM

Me? A conspiracy theory? Perish the thought :rolleyes:

Actually, I just wanted to know. Honest.

Catacomb

Mar 28th, '03, 07:28 PM

I really hate Wizards...I mean really hate. I'm very glad that they lost the rights to L5R, too bad they still own the FR's.

Steve Long

Mar 28th, '03, 07:56 PM

Believe me, I'm as outraged as you guys!

That's why we're going to mount a write-in campaign and win some Origins Awards this year anyway.

There's a thread discussing this, briefly, over in "Company Questions." Once the online ballot is available (I'm waiting for the official announcement of this on the Academy mailing list), I'll post a document describing what happened and outlining our strategy for the write-in campaign.

So, please -- prepare to channel your disgust into effective action! Get ready to vote for us, and to get your gaming group, friends, family, co-workers, and idle acquaintances to do so as well. ;)

On the "who owns the con" question, Origins is most definitely owned by the Game Manufacturer's Association, not WOTC. If WOTC "owned" things, I suspect they'd win a lot more Awards, but I think if one looked back over recent years one would find that WOTC has lost more than it's won -- and in at least one instance, last year's Award for Chainmail, was given an Award sort of as a slap in the face.

TheEmerged

Mar 28th, '03, 08:22 PM

Thanks again, Steve. Like I said, I was asking -- not accusing.

ShadowRaptor

Mar 28th, '03, 11:43 PM

I'm all for it, just tell me where I sign up. I have all my millions of pens and pencils ready.

I don't hate WotC, I don't like them either. I do bet that most of the awards at the Origins Con went to d20 products though, is there any way to find out? I am curious. I hate d20.

I am actually glad to like a game system where the author reads these message boards as often as he possibly can and replies and talks with us. I don't know very many others that do that also.

If I could I would nominate Steve Long game designer of the year for Hero 5, and the rest of the company also. Way to go for a great product.

Lisa Nadazdy

Mar 29th, '03, 01:15 AM

I'm glad that WotC didn't get the rights to Dune so they could do a d20 hackjob. Now if only a liscence like that could fall it the hands of HERO....:)

Steve Long

Mar 29th, '03, 05:14 AM

IIRC, quite a few Origins Awards last year went to d20 products, but not all of them by any means. Game Of The Year went to Hackmaster, for example (which in and of itself could be regarded as a problem, but that's another topic). IIRC, Adventure, from White Wolf, won Best New RPG.

If there were a "d20 lock" on the Awards, I'd have a statuette on my mantle for the Wheel Of Time RPG, which was on the ballot last year. But I don't. ;) If there are lots of d20 products nominated, I think it's mainly because d20 is dominating the industry right now, not because of WOTC's influence or the like.

The way to stop this, of course, is to channel your energy into the write-in campaign when it gets going. ;)

Steve Long

Mar 29th, '03, 05:17 AM

I'm glad that WotC didn't get the rights to Dune so they could do a d20 hackjob.

WOTC did have the RPG rights to Dune for a while, which it obtained by buying Last Unicorn Games. While Owen Seyler, god-emperor of Dune gaming, worked on the d20 core rulebook for it, Ross Isaacs, Matt Colville, and myself wrote a kick-ass epic campaign taking place in the shadows and interstices of the events of the novel Dune itself. If I do say so, it would've been great, and it's a shame it was never published. We (the former LUG crew) have all sorts of cool Dune gaming stuff that we wrote but which was never published.

Hero's not likely to get the Dune license, unfortunately, for a whole bunch of reasons. But I suspect we'll see a Dune RPG of some sort soon enough.

Arthur

Mar 29th, '03, 12:34 PM

In my mind, this gives the Origins Awards the same level of credibility as the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. To wit - none. Holy finodh - they never even inducted Black Sabbath! A travesty.

Yamo

Mar 29th, '03, 12:49 PM

Game Of The Year went to Hackmaster, for example (which in and of itself could be regarded as a problem, but that's another topic).

*golf clap* :D

Blue

Mar 29th, '03, 02:32 PM

It was a snaffu: Black Sabbath is up for Best Supplement, while Hero 5e is being inducted a the R&RHoF. I think Rob Zombie is presenting your induction.

Steve Long

Mar 29th, '03, 03:55 PM

Geez, Rob Zombie? Can't we have, like, Steely Dan, or James Taylor, or the Eagles, or Billy Joel, or someone else whose music I actually know? :)

Derek Hiemforth

Mar 29th, '03, 04:19 PM

Originally posted by Steve Long
Geez, Rob Zombie? Can't we have, like, Steely Dan, or James Taylor, or the Eagles, or Billy Joel, or someone else whose music I actually know? :) I'd say you're getting old, Steve, except that I'd have to say we're getting old, and I don' wanna say that. ;)

Blue

Mar 29th, '03, 04:29 PM

Originally posted by Steve Long
Geez, Rob Zombie? Can't we have, like, Steely Dan, or James Taylor, or the Eagles, or Billy Joel, or someone else whose music I actually know? :)

It's all part of the travesty that is the R&RHoF. They always have some flavor of the week present for someone who will be remembered for the ages. I hope you guys play Elemental Control (that's my favorite) and follow it up with a dice solo.

Lisa Nadazdy

Mar 29th, '03, 04:30 PM

Lisa looks around with paranoia.

Who's callin' who old, here?

Killer Shrike

Mar 30th, '03, 12:56 PM

Originally posted by Steve Long
Geez, Rob Zombie? Can't we have, like, Steely Dan, or James Taylor, or the Eagles, or Billy Joel, or someone else whose music I actually know? :)

Wow. How old are you anyway? :D

Steve Long

Mar 31st, '03, 03:11 AM

Old enough to know the difference between quality music and the crap they play on the radio today, sonnie. ;)

tesuji

Mar 31st, '03, 05:44 AM

Is there actually a category for "Best Rehash of 1980's rules" at Origins?

Lisa Nadazdy

Mar 31st, '03, 05:49 AM

Originally posted by tesuji
Is there actually a category for "Best Rehash of 1980's rules" at Origins?

Sorry, tesuji... Origins doesn't give out awards for "Most Obnoxious Troll".

misterdeath

Mar 31st, '03, 07:18 AM

Originally posted by tesuji
Is there actually a category for "Best Rehash of 1980's rules" at Origins?

Must be, Hackmaster won didn't it?

D

Steve Long

Mar 31st, '03, 08:34 AM

At present there's no distinct category for "new editions of existing games," though several Academy members (including myself) have argued for the creation of such a category. As it stands, new editions of existing systems qualify for the "Best New RPG" category.

mikelbarnz

Mar 31st, '03, 11:54 AM

Now now, Steve, don't blame the crap they play on the radio on modern music, blame it on the modern music INDUSTRY, and the modern radio INDUSTRY.
Just like in gaming, where you have to look outside the mainstream (d20), to find the quality (Hero), you have to do the same in music.
But I do have to say, if Billy Joel, James Taylor, and the Eagles are what you're listening to around the house, I need to send you some discs...

Steve Long

Mar 31st, '03, 02:24 PM

Well, they're not the only thing, but they're certainly part of it. ;)

I wasn't necessarily blaming modern artists; you're probably right that the music and radio industries share a substantial portion of the blame.

For example, one of the many things I miss is Top 40 radio. I miss the days when there were stations playing a mix of all of the best stuff from different genres of music. Today it's all too segmented to specific interest groups, so that I end up listening to three or four radio stations over the course of the day to keep from hearing the same stuff over and over again.

Feh. Enough curmudgeonliness and thread-hijacking. ;)

Kevin Scrivner

Mar 31st, '03, 02:53 PM

After reading Steve's explanation of the awards, I have to risk roaring flames and suggest that maybe we wasn't robbed. Hero 5th is an excellent game, and the recent revisions are helpful, but the rewrite isn't so extensive as to qualify it as a "new" game. Which in a way is a good thing; it's familiar yet with improvements.

Now, if Hero's new and totally rewritten products -- such as Star Hero or Champions -- aren't nominated for something, I'd be concerned.

Killer Shrike

Mar 31st, '03, 03:28 PM

Originally posted by Kevin Scrivner
After reading Steve's explanation of the awards, I have to risk roaring flames and suggest that maybe we wasn't robbed. Hero 5th is an excellent game, and the recent revisions are helpful, but the rewrite isn't so extensive as to qualify it as a "new" game. Which in a way is a good thing; it's familiar yet with improvements.

Im not sure what the criteria is, but Im sure that Steve is intelligent enough to understand the criteria, and obviously he thinks FREd qualified for the award. Im inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt.

FREd is more than just a face lift to 4th edition. Yes, its probably like 90% the same game under the hood, but the presentation, and that key 9% (I'm not counting Damage Shield as an improvement :D ) new\altered material is significant. DOJ rescued a grand old system going down the tubes due to poor management or whatever and then proceeded to personally churn out massive new material that far exceeds in volume and quality anything turned out by the previous ownership in any equivalent period of time (by a stretch!), and did this in the face of a near-total d20 market lockdown.

There are those who would have called such a plan crazy before it happened, but look at HERO Games now.

Maybe they should create a new award category: The Pheonix Award given out, not necessarily every year but only when a suitable recipient exists, to the game system which best recreates it self on the verge of implosion and springs forth again renewed.

HEROs would definitely have gotten that one. :D

RE: Steve's Music: I only ask your age because, well, Rob Zombie has been around for <ahem> a decade or so, and is in fact now regarded as a venerable veteran of the industry by the pubescent nuMetal groups on the radios these days.:p

I mean, I thought I was getting old, but then you go and bust out Steely Dan, and Im like 'What? My DAD listened to Steely Dan, and he's pushing 60!' :)

misterdeath

Mar 31st, '03, 05:29 PM

Steve Long

Mar 31st, '03, 05:32 PM

I assure you that, under the rules, 5E is eligible for Best New RPG. If it weren't, it would not have been allowed on the nominations ballot in the first place.

Al_Beddow

Mar 31st, '03, 05:38 PM

Originally posted by ShadowRaptor
I am actually glad to like a game system where the author reads these message boards as often as he possibly can and replies and talks with us. I don't know very many others that do that also.

Then you would love the KenzerCo boards. Y'know the makers of HackMaster, Origins "Game of the Year" last year.

Al_Beddow

Mar 31st, '03, 05:41 PM

Originally posted by Steve Long
Game Of The Year went to Hackmaster, for example (which in and of itself could be regarded as a problem, but that's another topic).

Steve, why would HackMaster wining GotY be reguarded as a problem?

Al_Beddow

Mar 31st, '03, 05:45 PM

Originally posted by Killer Shrike
Hence, my comments about Hackmaster. It's basically 1st edition D&D, with 2nd edition Bards and Rangers (and a bunch of complexity) grafted on.

It's not a New Game either, yet it won.

This I find amusing. While I'm not going to assume anything, it has been my experiance that the person making such comments truly hasn't given HM more than a quick glance or "once over."

But, since this isn't a HM discussion board, I'll end the thread hijacking here.

ShadowRaptor

Mar 31st, '03, 07:04 PM

Originally posted by Steve Long
WOTC did have the RPG rights to Dune for a while, which it obtained by buying Last Unicorn Games. While Owen Seyler, god-emperor of Dune gaming, worked on the d20 core rulebook for it, Ross Isaacs, Matt Colville, and myself wrote a kick-ass epic campaign taking place in the shadows and interstices of the events of the novel Dune itself. If I do say so, it would've been great, and it's a shame it was never published. We (the former LUG crew) have all sorts of cool Dune gaming stuff that we wrote but which was never published.

Hero's not likely to get the Dune license, unfortunately, for a whole bunch of reasons. But I suspect we'll see a Dune RPG of some sort soon enough.

YOU were LUG? I did not know that...I have been waiting for a really good DUNE rpg for a long time, its a shame that you can't publish it now. Sorry for the highjack but I did not know that you all had Dune and couldn't put it out. WotC sucks even more now to me.

Killer Shrike

Mar 31st, '03, 07:44 PM

Steve Long

Apr 1st, '03, 02:38 AM

Steve, why would HackMaster wining GotY be reguarded as a problem?

I find it somewhat troubling that a game created as a joke (whether it's playable or not) and which is really just a warmed-over version of 1st Edition AD&D counts as the "Best Game" that was created in 2001. I think it's indicative of some problems with the Awards process. That's all I meant.

YOU were LUG? I did not know that...I have been waiting for a really good DUNE rpg for a long time, its a shame that you can't publish it now. Sorry for the highjack but I did not know that you all had Dune and couldn't put it out. WotC sucks even more now to me.

Yup, I was with LUG until it was bought by WOTC, first as a pool writer, later as DS9 RPG Line Developer.

WOTC did, BTW, publish the Dune RPG. But it only printed 3,000 copies, which were quickly snapped up. Your best bet to find it these days is eBay, I suppose, and I've heard of it going for upwards of $150. I myself only have one copy.

misterdeath

Apr 1st, '03, 05:50 AM

Originally posted by Al_Beddow
This I find amusing. While I'm not going to assume anything, it has been my experiance that the person making such comments truly hasn't given HM more than a quick glance or "once over."

But, since this isn't a HM discussion board, I'll end the thread hijacking here.

FWIW, I own all the hackmaster books, and have created a few characters. 1st edition, with a bunch of complexity added on. (flaws, powers, training, new ways of doing skills)

It's a change, and in a lot of ways an improvement. But, it's still 1st edition at it's core.

Which is logical, since the game is based off the comic, which based it's game off of D&D.

D