Nonlethal Alternatives

[bblackmoor]

Zanthis and I were discussing, in an unrelated and sadly flame-burdened thread, the problem of characters who do not have a useful alternative when they need to be able to deal with a threat that can't be removed with brute force. That isn't actually how Zanthis phrased it, but I think that's the underlying problem.

So I'm posting what he said, and what I said, and maybe people will have something interesting to add to it. Here we go...


I am certainly not trying to claim Normal vs Killing Attacks against equally powerered characters are more or less lethal. All I generally care about in terms of lethality is against innocent bystanders. When all of a Hero's powers would outright kill any normal person that is accidentally hit, I get concerned. Most players forget that they are just as often protecting normal people as death-matching bad guys in their secret lair in the middle of nowhere. That means one wrong shot and they just killed someone. Not good for a Superhero.

A few lethal (to normals) attacks are fine. But I've had people come up with 6 out of 6 attack powers that would outright kill any 2 PD 10 BODY (4E rules) character they hit. And this is what the normal Munchkin player forgets. The goal is not just "Defeat my enemy" but frequently includes "and don't kill innocent people doing it". I'd rather let the player know about the problem during character creation than after the game started. Because my villians will use human shields, hostages, mind controlled children and wire wheelchair-bound elderly with nuclear weapons. If you've only got acid bullets, you'll find a lot of combat you just can't do anything at all because all you can do it kill, and there's nothing you want to kill!

Ben Seeman: The web site was having siezures when I started this thread. Remove the duplicate topic, please? And while you are at it, it occurs to me that I probably should have put this in the Genres->Champions category. The original topic was in the Hero Games->Hero System Discussion category, and I didn't pay close enough attention when I created this one. Sorry about that. :(

[KA.]

Zanthis and I were discussing, in an unrelated and sadly flame-burdened thread, the problem of characters who do not have a useful alternative when they need to be able to deal with a thread that can't be removed with brute force. That isn't actually how Zanthis phrased it, but I think that's the underlying problem.

So I'm posting what he said, and what I said, and maybe people will have something interesting to add to it. Here we go...

Without trying to stir anything up, may I ask what the other thread was about?
I have some comments on this topic, but I don't want to post anything that would pull this thread in the wrong direction.

KA.

[bblackmoor]

When all of a Hero's powers would outright kill any normal person that is accidentally hit, I get concerned.

1) Any large attack will kill "any normal person".

2) Any attack, unless it has taken a Limitation to the contrary, can be used at reduced power.

I am curious what you would suggest to the players as alternatives. Should everyone have a "Stun only" attack?

[bblackmoor]

Without trying to stir anything up, may I ask what the other thread was about? I have some comments on this topic, but I don't want to post anything that would pull this thread in the wrong direction.

Don't sweat it: the other thread was completely unrelated. Something about how power defense is too cheap, and adjustment powers are too effective, or something.

[Zanthis]

1) Any large attack will kill "any normal person".

2) Any attack, unless it has taken a Limitation to the contrary, can be used at reduced power.

I am curious what you would suggest to the players as alternatives. Should everyone have a "Stun only" attack?Unfortunately I lost my post to the forum hiccup :( . But in effect, I feel every character should have at least one non-lethal solution. I ask every single player the same question: Your character's girlfriend--who's pregnant by the way--has been mindcontrolled, had a Trans-Dimensional Disruptor grafted to her hand (not even a Focus anymore) and told to go nuts at Children's Hospital. What do you do?

If your character cannot do anything beyond what a normal person could do, you need to tweak him. Why? Because I don't allow Achilles Players*. It's no fair to the other players.

For example, many players build a Gun Multipower at some point. Often, each slot is a different type of ammo or setting. Many of these guns cannot be used at a reduced power setting (reduced power from a bullet?!). I'll get something that looks like this: 1) Silver Bullets: RKA Armor Piercing; 2) Fire Bullets: Area Effect One Hex; 3) Acid Bullets: RKA Continous, Uncontrolled; 4) Ice Bullets: BODY Drain; 5) Phased Bullets: RKA Affects Desolid; 6) Hyper Bullets: RKA Autofire. Sucks to be this hero's girlfriend! And if that's all the "Superpowers" you have besides +CSL and other combat skills, you're character is sitting out while the rest of the team stops your rampaging GF.

Add a Rubber bullets option. Add an Entangling bullets option. Better yet, add both! But you need to be able to incapacitate or you will not be happy in any of my campaigns, because odds are about 50-50 that you'll need to avoid killing someone you're attacking in a given session. Your campaign may vary (YCMV?), but in mine I want to players to enjoy their characters, and no one enjoys not getting to participate in half the action.

* Achilles Player: A player who creates a character with such a huge flaw that you can never use it because it will literal result in nearly instantaneous death (3d6 dmg/segement from sunlight, dependence on darkness, 3d6 dmg/segment, x2 BODY+STUN from Light Attacks, all defenses bought as "Not against light SFX" and major attributes (STR, DEX, BODY, SPD, STUN) bought "Only in Darkness"...Hey, I'm a Vampire.). The player's theory is, you won't subject him to his weakness because you don't want to intentionally kill him. That means he never has to deal with it. He might need to avoid it, but all too often the team ends up having to bend over backwords to accommodate his strange weakness.

Also works for less common things like say Acid SFX. The character can be bought with such a weakness that he knows you can never use acid against him. If you do and he's hit, he'll die. He takes no blame for it, you put him in the impossible situation. Not having a non-lethal attacks is the same. He cannot save his girlfriend, so if you ever put him in such a situation, he doesn't need to worry about it because his character cannot possibly do anything. Therefore, you cannot do such a thing to him. I flat out do not tolerate such crap, having had a campaign (not run by me) completely ruined by such a player.

[Dust Raven]

I would disagree that every character needs a non-lethal attack (that is, an attack that doesn't do BODY or has much chance of killing a normal human). Sure it's useful, but sometimes the existance of such powers would ruin the plot.

Say I wanted to run a wonderful, family oriented advanture featuring Takofanes, and how he zombifies a small town and has it attacking nearby cities. The people aren't dead, just mind controlled. They have no special powers, just greenish skin and a vacant stare. The idea is to pit the heroes against soft, innocent targets. The trick is to find a way to subdue them without harming them and/or break the mind control effect.

But your hero has an EB 6d6 NND versus FF! Ta-Da! You can now single handedly stop each and everyone of them. Just spread by a few dice and you can nail 3 or 4 in one shot. A second shot will have them KOed. Easy. Too easy. But at least now you and the rest of the team can go beat up Takofanes now.

Personally, I'd much rather see the team Brick pull up the roadway to make a corral with the EPers hearding the zombies in and the MAs round about catching stragglers. Or maybe the gadgeteer will make a giant FW to hold them all, temporarily. In any case I'd rather see some creative solution to a creative delima. At least more creative than the solution to a normal delima (I blast him!...well fine, I blast him with by stun ray!).

[Chiba Bob]

If your heros want to play fast and lose around bystanders ....let them. Eventually someone is going to get hurt. Then what are the heros going to do? The consequences of their actions spin great plot threads (bad press, jail, wrongful injury claims, revenge plots) and give roleplaying opportunities. Image to look on the players faces when they find out that they are responsible for the death of Dr. Destroyer's only love (or something of the like).

In one gaming group I was playing in, I had to retire one of my characters (replaced with a new one) because he got in trouble with the law. My own hero team hunted me down and turned me over to the authorities because they (the hero team) wanted to remain on the right side of the law. Even though I fought the law and the law won, we all had a lot of fun roleplaying out this plot thread.

I have played characters who had noting but killing attacks as well as characters with nothing but stun only attacks but it is always been my characterization that has gotten me into real trouble. A character's concern or lack of concern for bystanders is the real danger, not the weapons or powers he uses. A villain is still going to use lethal force whether the heros do or don't. For example, in one game I ran, a hero accidently drew fire from some agents through a crowd of bystanders because of his bad positioning after movement.


. :rockon:

[Magmarock]

What is wrong with:

Entangles
STUN only attacks
Flashes
Drains

Not to mention the entire array of Mental attack options?

There is an abundance of non-damaging attacks available. I submit that it is up to the GM to stress to his/her Players that alternative powers should be included when the PC is created.


Mags

[tesuji]

Well Ok first off lets say i rarely see this as a problem. Why?

1. Most of the players generating characters i have seen are doing versatility in offenses already. its not uncommon for, when the sfx fits, them to have a main attack Eb or RKA with additional multipower slots for an entangle, a flash, an NND and so forth. From experience, most of my players are not wanting to be the one power pony and expect to need more tactical options than dusting the bad guy.

2. Most of the pCs i have seen can fire attacks at lower power.

3. The exceptions to 1 and 2 are deliberately taken due to character concept. They are accepting "only one attack and its a doozey" as a tactical flaw in the character. So, the issues of "watch out for misses" are the specific issues they want their character playing thru. hence, its not a problem when those dilemmas come up for them in play.

Even for them, the option of using power skill for tricks can help to find an alternative.

So, all in all, i haven't seen this as a problem.

The best friendly fire episode anecdote i can recall was way back when... the team had one of their members ambushed and crippled and went ballistic. They tracked the villains to a van moving thru rush hour traffic. being clever, the energy guy rushed ahead and did a "shut down engie" things on the cars and stopped all the traffic to a halt, trapping the villains. The bad guys came out shooting and when the heroes' gunslinger tossed a gas round in, they realized how they had just hosed themselves. They had just trapped hundreds of cars full of innocents right smack dab in the middle of their firefight. Every miss was practically guaranteed to hit a car occupied by someone and any area attack immediately created "people in trouble" distractions. heck, when the villains started picking up cars to use as projectiles, they vehicles were occupied!! Now the heroes' gunslinger guy did not worry and just gleefully blasted away including more gas rounds which just caused more trouble for everyone else.

The team spent years trying to live down and make amends for that bloodbath.

[Magmarock]

The best friendly fire episode anecdote i can recall was way back when... the team had one of their members ambushed and crippled and went ballistic. They tracked the villains to a van moving thru rush hour traffic. being clever, the energy guy rushed ahead and did a "shut down engie" things on the cars and stopped all the traffic to a halt, trapping the villains. The bad guys came out shooting and when the heroes' gunslinger tossed a gas round in, they realized how they had just hosed themselves. They had just trapped hundreds of cars full of innocents right smack dab in the middle of their firefight. Every miss was practically guaranteed to hit a car occupied by someone and any area attack immediately created "people in trouble" distractions. heck, when the villains started picking up cars to use as projectiles, they vehicles were occupied!! Now the heroes' gunslinger guy did not worry and just gleefully blasted away including more gas rounds which just caused more trouble for everyone else.

The team spent years trying to live down and make amends for that bloodbath.

[Cringe] Yeesh! :ugly:

Mags

[Ghost Archer]

Ghost Archer:
From the very beginning I have always be aware of the fragility of those not blessed with wonderous powers, hell even of those blessed with said powers, and so have made provisions. A Stun only attack. An NND attack. Flash attack. Entangle. A darkness attack. I might be capable of taking out a tank but I will only use that power in a dire situation. Even with a sword I will use the 'flat of the blade' to avoid killing.

Nat 'Goliath' Ryan:
Some of us aren't as taleneted as Archer. I only have my strength and I'm not all that great controlling it. I don't hit people unless I absolutely must.

Ghost Archer:
Too many paranormals fall under the assumption that the most important thing in the world is taking down the bad guy. Even those with codes against killing have lethal attacks. This puzzles the hell out of me. Why worry about who you kill if that's what can happen every time you relaese your power?
Personally, I will opt to save a bystander every time even if given a clear shot at the worst killer on the planet. I don't want to be the one explaining to some kid why I let his mommie die.
I think many people are trapped by the competative urge. The need to WIN at any cost. It places blinders on people with power and becomes 'hit 'em hard, hit 'em fast and shoot 'em when they're down, they might be faking'. I can't tell you how many people I have know that think that way. I believe this is why a mentalist is so rare. They can't kill outright, or NORMALLY can't. Who wants to have to think up a creative way to neutralize Grond without endangering civilians when you can blast him with a Megabolt III and have the satisfaction of knocking him through a couple walls and a car or two?

RPG:
I try very hard to lead my players to a more diverse set of attacks but most cannot see the beauty in a subtle power. Too many DBZ cartoons.

[Hugh Neilson]

But your hero has an EB 6d6 NND versus FF! Ta-Da! You can now single handedly stop each and everyone of them. Just spread by a few dice and you can nail 3 or 4 in one shot. A second shot will have them KOed. Easy. Too easy. But at least now you and the rest of the team can go beat up Takofanes now.

Personally, I'd much rather see the team Brick pull up the roadway to make a corral with the EPers hearding the zombies in and the MAs round about catching stragglers. Or maybe the gadgeteer will make a giant FW to hold them all, temporarily. In any case I'd rather see some creative solution to a creative delima. At least more creative than the solution to a normal delima (I blast him!...well fine, I blast him with by stun ray!).

We once had a player with gas arrows. The gas filled a hex and lasted a turn. Well and good. Until he started routinely dropping it in the hex of anyone KO'd, on the theory "it can't really hurt and it makes sure he's down."

Until a minor villain developed lung disease from excessive exposure to this gas...Juts gbecause it's non-lethal doesn't mean it's 100% safe and aproved for unlimited use on humans...

[bblackmoor]

The team spent years trying to live down and make amends for that bloodbath.

"Robin, call the Bat-lawyer. We're going to need help with this one."
"Holy personal injury!" (smacks fist into palm)

[Vorsch]

So all characters must have some kind of NND/mental attack power.

Just because its easy to build MPs dosent mean that everone has to have one

What "safe" powers does Superman have or Thor, remember there fighting at the 20dc range, they arnt going to throw 6d6 attacks... what would be the point.

What about Knockback, that could kill a normal if your supers hits him ( after taking KB )..... supers would just stay at home.

what safe attacks can fire sfx really generate. ( nnd heat wave, that would charbroil someone )

no i dont see a need or justification for requiring some safe power.

[cutsleeve]

Super stregth as in the case of superman is a very versatile skill. Superman has learned to limit his actions and takes precautions to limit how much strength he uses. Superman is also Near Invulnerable and often times takes a hit he could have avoided so that others aren't injured by the Bad Guys fire.

I dont see a need for safe powers either. Why should someone have EB's, Entangles, Flashes, ect. If they arent in line with the characters concept.

However on the flip side of that arguement it is foolish for a character to make someone who is so limited in their capabilities that they are hampered in situations where they cannot, will not, or should not take lives.

If a character wants to make himself that vulnerable then fine thats ok. But dont expect me not to be evil, vicious, and cruel. Thats part of the Gm's job to give the characters ordeals to overcome. Otherwise its basically just like a bad comercialized saturday morning cartoon where the main characters are never challenged beyond their means to easy overcome said challenge.

[Dust Raven]

We once had a player with gas arrows. The gas filled a hex and lasted a turn. Well and good. Until he started routinely dropping it in the hex of anyone KO'd, on the theory "it can't really hurt and it makes sure he's down."

Until a minor villain developed lung disease from excessive exposure to this gas...Juts gbecause it's non-lethal doesn't mean it's 100% safe and aproved for unlimited use on humans...
That's one way of handling it. I just might take that route with one of my players. He has a MP pistol with a normal EB and RKA, plus an NND slot and a SPD & DEX Drain slot. He likes to use the NND and Drain a lot. Perhaps some Side Effects (-0) are in order.

[Zanthis]

I did say Your Campaign May Vary. I meant it. I run campaigns that have a high number of new players (mainly new to role-playing period). These people are not used to creatively solving problems like handling mind-controlled innocents. The question I ask them starts them thinking. "What would I do?" Then, they typically add something to handle that. But it's really only a crutch for their first character or two. With experience they will no longer need that, because they will be able to handle such situations creatively and understand the difficulties they will face if they cannot do something in such a case.

Dust Raven pointed out all kinds of ways of dealing with innocents despite not having "non-lethal" powers. Guess what? Those are all valid answers to my question. No need to have a special Kiddie Power if you know how to use your existing powers to handle the situation. All my more experienced players know the score and I don't need to double check them for that kinda stuff.

But if you'd ever run a game and gotten a player new to role-playing into a fairly simple (to most experienced gamers) situation and had them completely freeze up, unable to think of any possible solution. And Watched them get frustrated with them game to the point of not wanting to player again. Then you'd understand why I'm preventing that from happening. I make sure no matter what that my newer players will be able to "do something" without a lot of gamer-creativity. Then with each encounter I push them a little more, helping them to develope their creativity.

But the question I ask has a second purpose too. It is a reminder that you are creating a Superhero, not a Killing Machine. More dense players sometimes require a revised questions that goes something like this: "This is a Superhero game, not Tekken Tag Team".

So I'm glad your players are experienced enough to handle such situations. Great if you've never brought new people into the world of role-playing. Especially women coming into a male-dominated group that are already very uncomfortable and unsure of themselves. Again, YCMV and almost certainly will.

[bblackmoor]

I do think this is a worthwhile concern, which is why I moved the topic to its own thread. So here's a question: how do your own attack-heavy characters handle situations where brute force is insufficient to solve the problem? I am interested in hearing anecdotes. I learn a lot by hearing how people solve their game problems in the real-world (so to speak).

[Hugh Neilson]

What "safe" powers does Superman have or Thor, remember there fighting at the 20dc range, they arnt going to throw 6d6 attacks... what would be the point.

That comes down to some of the comments above about tearing up the roadway to pen in the innocents. A Grab can also work quite well for a high STR individual - there's no need to Squeeze or Throw. The target is fairly helpless against a teammate's non-lethal alternative. Or one can squeeze for 3d6, and pull their punch, slowly squeezing the target into unconsciousness.

But I do agree with your overall comment - a nonlethal attack is only appropriate if it's in character. Consideration as to what the hero might do if he needed to deal with a target he doesn';t want to injure might certainlyu be in order, but buying Thor a "solid lightning entangle" is not the correct answer.

[Either Thor or Supes might have a brick trick entangle using nearby objects though - the old wrap the firder around him trick.]

[Metaphysician]

In the case of major bricks, one non-lethal option is simply grabbing the other person and disarming them. If you are sufficiently strong and durable, you can simply hold and manipulate normals without any opposition.

As for Thor, well, thats what weather tricks like wind and rain are for. . .

In general, though, I agree with most of the comments. Unless its a specific plot point for your character, you probably should have some "safe" attack. OTOH, just because you have a safe attack doesn't mean you can instantly deal with, say, the "mind controlled town" scenario mentioned earlier with it. Player has an applicable NND blast?? Just make sure its a big enough town that even with spreading, he's going to either tire himself out first, or be too slow to keep them from doing whatever it is they are doing.

[BNakagawa]

I do not think it is required for every PC to have a non-lethal power for dealing with soft targets, but it is important (depending on genre) for players to adjust their tactics depending on the situation.

For me, it would be supremely boring to have a cosmic VPP with no limitations, because you'd just pick a power that would solve the problem and then use it.

I'm much more interested in having a limited power set and then trying to come up with inventive ways of using them. Characters who can do everything at the highest level the campaign will allow are not only boring to play, they're boring to be around.

Why do I need to bring in my character when that guy's character does everything mine does and more?

Oh sure, there's roleplaying stuff, but it's just a lot better to enforce some degree of niche protection to let every PC have their share of the spotlight once the dice start hitting the table...

$0.02

[bblackmoor]

For me, it would be supremely boring to have a cosmic VPP with no limitations, because you'd just pick a power that would solve the problem and then use it.

Tangent:

I can't speak for other people's character's, but my own power pool based characters either have very focused special effects or are a good 10 to 20 active points weaker (per power) than the "specialist" characters. I am currently working on a re-write of an old character of mine whom I will be playing again this weekend. She's a Dr. Strange clone, with a virtually un-Limited power pool, but it's far less powerful than the campaign max. She will (if I can scrape up the points for it) have an additional 15 to 20 points of "oomph" that will be usable only with the base pool, but will have sundry additional Limitations, such as Extra Time. (I got that idea from someone here on the Hero Boards, by the way, so don't let anyone tell you that time spent here is necessarily wasted. How productively you spend your time is up to you.)

[Dust Raven]

So I'm glad your players are experienced enough to handle such situations. Great if you've never brought new people into the world of role-playing. Especially women coming into a male-dominated group that are already very uncomfortable and unsure of themselves. Again, YCMV and almost certainly will.
???

Are you still addressing me with this statement?

[Dust Raven]

I do think this is a worthwhile concern, which is why I moved the topic to its own thread. So here's a question: how do your own attack-heavy characters handle situations where brute force is insufficient to solve the problem? I am interested in hearing anecdotes. I learn a lot by hearing how people solve their game problems in the real-world (so to speak).
I had a character once, named Carnelian. He has energy expulsion powers and was a stereotypical beamer type. EC with EB, FF and Flight. I tossed in a Flash because his powers were light based. According to concept, he should have had an RKA instead of an EB (laser type), but no-go with the GM. He also had CVK.

In almost every fight, he'd shoot at a target's equipment or blind them. He absolutely refused to use his EB at greater than half power on somone not obviously 'super'. Combined with a team of heroes, he worked great as a support character, because would blind or disable while everyone else was albe to do the KO. As a solo, this character probably would have been toast rather quickly.

It was kinda funny fighting robots for first time though. Carnelian just blasts away full power (no spreading by 2d6 to hit a weapon either).

[Metaphysician]

Tangent:

I can't speak for other people's character's, but my own power pool based characters either have very focused special effects or are a good 10 to 20 active points weaker (per power) than the "specialist" characters. I am currently working on a re-write of an old character of mine whom I will be playing again this weekend. She's a Dr. Strange clone, with a virtually un-Limited power pool, but it's far less powerful than the campaign max. She will (if I can scrape up the points for it) have an additional 15 to 20 points of "oomph" that will be usable only with the base pool, but will have sundry additional Limitations, such as Extra Time. (I got that idea from someone here on the Hero Boards, by the way, so don't let anyone tell you that time spent here is necessarily wasted. How productively you spend your time is up to you.)

Your welcome. I try to help.

[Trebuchet]

The Hero system itself has maneuvers to do things like this (Pulling a Punch). And there's no law that says a 60 STR brick or energy projector needs to hit for all 12 dice in the first place; casual STR will take out most normals or agents and a disarm or grab will disarm them. PRE attacks by many supers will stop most normals in their tracks. (In a recent adventure our team MidGuard was attacked by a HIND attack helicopter; their greatest concern was how to avoid killing the helicopter's crew. They ended up poking a hole through the engine block with a Penetrating RKA while the brick caught the vehicle to prevent it from crashing when the engine died.)

Indeed, I consider it a role-playing challenge to avoid seriously injuring agents and to protect normals. I think every character having an attack which is guaranteed not to cause injury is just as detrimental to good role-playing as having an overwhelming attack that always flattens the villain in one shot. Part of good Champions role-playing IMHO is overcoming obstacles without using excessive force. Any moron can use the equivalent of a tactical nuke to kill the bad guys. Getting the hostages out takes a bit more finesse.

[Zanthis]

Are you still addressing me with this statement?Not specifically. More of a general comment to those who don't like my requirement of non-lethal possibilities on characters. My campaigns contain a different mix of player experience than most here seem to. As such, I have chosen the method that works best for my players and helps them learn the system, and grow to become better role-players at a nice pace that doesn't burn them out or frustrate them. My more experienced players take on the "job" of helping the new players stretch their creativity and learn the boundaries of the game.

Originally, my comments in the other thread were in regard to munchkin characters who frequently have no non-lethal power (although creativity as shown by many in this thread would still allow them to handle many situations safely). Why don't they have a non-lethal power? Is it because it isn't in concept for their character? No, they don't have a character concept at all. What they have is a way of stacking powers and advantages with limitations that hardly ever limit to create abusive characters. Why do they make characters like this (besides that it can be fun)? Because they have misunderstood the purpose of the game. They are playing a Superhero game, not a Killing Machine Death-Match Arena game (at least based on the comments of the game's GM in the other thread).

Since the poster in the other thread was concerned about his players making munchkin characters, and it sounded like they were somewhat new, at least to 5E, I suggested reminding them of the difference between a Superhero and a Killing Machine.

[bblackmoor]

Since the poster in the other thread was concerned about his players making munchkin characters, and it sounded like they were somewhat new, at least to 5E, I suggested reminding them of the difference between a Superhero and a Killing Machine.

I agree that it's probably a good idea to get new players to think about the less-obvious uses of their characters' powers. One of the great advantages of Champions is that you can create anything. Awakening a player to that fact can sometimes take a while.

[Dust Raven]

Not specifically. More of a general comment to those who don't like my requirement of non-lethal possibilities on characters. My campaigns contain a different mix of player experience than most here seem to. As such, I have chosen the method that works best for my players and helps them learn the system, and grow to become better role-players at a nice pace that doesn't burn them out or frustrate them. My more experienced players take on the "job" of helping the new players stretch their creativity and learn the boundaries of the game.

Originally, my comments in the other thread were in regard to munchkin characters who frequently have no non-lethal power (although creativity as shown by many in this thread would still allow them to handle many situations safely). Why don't they have a non-lethal power? Is it because it isn't in concept for their character? No, they don't have a character concept at all. What they have is a way of stacking powers and advantages with limitations that hardly ever limit to create abusive characters. Why do they make characters like this (besides that it can be fun)? Because they have misunderstood the purpose of the game. They are playing a Superhero game, not a Killing Machine Death-Match Arena game (at least based on the comments of the game's GM in the other thread).

Since the poster in the other thread was concerned about his players making munchkin characters, and it sounded like they were somewhat new, at least to 5E, I suggested reminding them of the difference between a Superhero and a Killing Machine.
I see where you're coming from now. Yeah, in a group of newbies non-lethal alternatives might be a good idea. Experienced role-players should know if their character/concept should have such an ability and shouldn't be required to have one though.