Limited Advantage on a MP

[JeffreyWKramer]

I'm vexed in regard to how to do a specific power construct with Hero Builder. I'm building a character with a Multipower (a bunch of attack powers) that has Indirect (any direction/any location, +3/4) as an Advantage on the MP. However, there are some circumstances in which the base attack functions, but in which Indirect does not (special effect - little robots that can fly around and attack from the sides/behind, any angle, but they still can't get inside something like a sealed Force Wall) - thus, I want to put a Limitation on the Indirect (not through completely sealed/encompassing barriers) but not on the whole Multipower (the robots can attack the barrier, they just can't get to the guy behind it unless they break the barrier first). There are also some other Limitations on the MP that apply to the MP base and slots - thus including the Indirect.

So, how can I build this into the MP base itself, rather than doing something clunky like defining a separate, Limited Naked Advantage and explaining it in the notes? Am I missing something here?

[rjcurrie]

I think you have to go the limited Naked Advantage route.

[Silbeg]

I think you have to go the limited Naked Advantage route.
That would probably be the better way, anyways. While advantages on MPs are permissable, they are not usually the best construct.
Perhaps better would be to place the advantage on each slot that makes sense, and perhaps add a custom limitation to show that it must have a way around obstacles (probably a +0 lim, but maybe -1/4, depending on your campaign).
I was suggested that this would be the be better way to handle things by Steve Long a while back, and I would agree.
The additional advantage to this would be that non-attack powers could be added, or just powers that don't make sense to have the indirect advantage.

[JeffreyWKramer]

That would probably be the better way, anyways. While advantages on MPs are permissable, they are not usually the best construct.
Perhaps better would be to place the advantage on each slot that makes sense, and perhaps add a custom limitation to show that it must have a way around obstacles (probably a +0 lim, but maybe -1/4, depending on your campaign).
I was suggested that this would be the be better way to handle things by Steve Long a while back, and I would agree.
The additional advantage to this would be that non-attack powers could be added, or just powers that don't make sense to have the indirect advantage.

The thing is, this is a case where that specific Advantage makes perfect sense for all of the slots. The slots are variants on the same theme - little robot attack drones that can attack from any angle. Some do KAs, some NND, some Drains, some explode, but all would be capable of Indirect attack. Some of the individual slots will have Advantages and Limitations of their own, but they all share the same basic special effect.

I personally find the idea of having to do a Naked Advantage for something like this rather clunky, but I haven't figured out any other way to do a Limited Advantage for the MP. Given that the rules specifically state that one can apply the Partially Limited Powers concept to Power Frameworks, any chance of seeing a fix that provides for a less clunky way to do this?

EDIT: And, doing it as a Limited Naked Advantage is even clunkier than I'd thought would be the case, as the printout gives the Advantage an END cost, even though that won't apply at all to some of the individual MP slots, which are being bought as 0 END or with Charges.

This really is a significant flaw in the program, IMHO. Sure, I suppose I can buy each individual MP slot as a Compound Power, and include the Limited Naked Advantage as one of the Powers, but that bothers me on a lot of grounds - the primary one being that this jacks up the cost of each slot, and thus of the MP base, and the rules explicitly allow one to apply Advantages to the Multipower Reserve - and thus *not* have to buy them on individual slots - when this fits character conception/special effects. If that doesn't apply in a "unified special effect" MP like this one, I don't know when it would apply.

[Simon]

Partially Limited Power Frameworks are explicitly verboten -- per Steve Long.

You need to do a Naked Advantage. Which costs END, per the Rules -- unless you purchase Reduced END for it.

There is no flaw in the program....there is a flaw in your understanding of the rules of the system.

[JeffreyWKramer]

Partially Limited Power Frameworks are explicitly verboten -- per Steve Long.

You need to do a Naked Advantage. Which costs END, per the Rules -- unless you purchase Reduced END for it.

There is no flaw in the program....there is a flaw in your understanding of the rules of the system.

FRED, p. 180, second column, in discussing Partially Limited Powers. The paragraph after the example using Pulsar says "You can also apply this effect to Advantages, Power Frameworks and parts of a Power."

This is not listed among the book's errata - or at least not the FRED errata at this site. Could you cite Steve's statement to the contrary?

I understand the rules pretty well, thank you. I can also read just fine, thank you.

[Simon]

Do a search on the boards. It's come up before and Steve was very clear on it. It is poorly worded in 5E (not errata).

Partially Limited Power Frameworks are not legal.

End of story.

That is why HD was coded the way it is.