Help Newbie with Power

[Cardinal]

I am back to Hero/Champions after more than a decade away.

I am trying to build a power and would appreciate the help of the great minds on the board.

The concept is a character that is an energy absorbing demi-brick. He can absorb any type of energy (including kinetic energy (physical)), but can only absorb so much before “Bad Things Happen.”(*) The catch is that the limit to the amount of energy that he can absorb covers all of the energy he absorbs.

Let’s assume that I want our stalwart hero (SH) to be able to absorb 50 points worth of attacks. I want that number to work to cover 50 Energy/ 0 Physical, 10E/40P, 25E/25P, etc. Also, I want SH to be able to absorb both E and P at any given time. For example, assume that SH has gotten in a fight with Pulsar and Ogre in an attempt to protect Truth, Justice and the American Way. In Phase 12, the cowardly duo each attack and hit SH, doing 12 body. SH rolls 18 on his absorption. He absorbs 12 from Pulsar’s blast (the first to hit) and 6 of 12 from Ogre’s punch. He has now absorbed 18/50 of the total energy he can absorb.

I have come up with two ways to model this. I would appreciate your feedback.

First, SH could buy two absorptions of equal size with equal total absorption numbers, one physical and one energy. The problem is that these pools would be independent of each other. As such, in our example above, assuming the same roll for each pool, he would have absorbed 12 pts from Pulsar (and have 6 left for any other energy attack), and 12 from Ogre (with 6 left for any physical. In addition, each pool would be at 12/50 of its max.

An alternative to the model above would be to put a limitation on each of the pools to indicate that it could not absorb more than the roll total in a turn and the total max counting all energy absorbed by both powers. What value would you give this limitation? -1/2? -1?

Second, SH could buy one absorption pool with the advantage Varying Effect (+1) on it. Unfortunately, this provides that SH could absorb from either P or E, but not both at the same time. In our example above this would mean that either of Pulsar’s or Ogre’s attack would not have been absorbed and the total pool would now be at 12/50 of max.

Are there any other ways to model this? Does anyone have any other suggestions on how to handle this concept?

Thank you for your help.

(*) Note: While not pertinent to the thread, I have taken care of the Bad Things Happen through a combination of a side effect and disadvantages.

[CraterMaker]

I would keep it simple, and buy one absorption power with a +1 Advantage: "Can absorb both physical and energy at the same time".

It's slightly more expensive than buying two absorptions (assuming you bought one of them with the Limitation "Linked"), but it seems more elegantly constructed to me. If you have an active point cap in your game it won't be powerful enough to be abusive- 60 point cap means a 6d6 absorption.

Now it is true that it's slightly more powerful than buying Absorption with the +1 advantage "Varying Effect"... But I'd posit to the GM that the idea is conceptually sound, colorful, and unique - all things I like MY players to strive for when creating powers.

-CraterMaker

[levi]

I agree with CraterMaker...especially since you have built in limitations in the form of *bad things. As a GM, I would definitely allow it in my campaign.

[ghost-angel]

Another method is to place the two in an EC, since they are the "same power" and the whole thing gets a -1/2 "Only 50 points Total" Limitation:
(I'm using 48 since 50 doesn't go into 6 evenly, 1D6*8 = 48 max pts)

"I Can Take It"
Elemental Control: 24 points, All Slots: -1/2 "Only a Total of 48 pts can be Absorbed" [48 Active Point Powers, 16 EC RP Cost]
1) 8D6 Absorb, Physical, -1/2 "Only a Total of 48 pts can be Absorbed" [48 AP, 16 RP Cost]
2) 8D6 Absorb, Energy, -1/1 "Only a Total of 48 pts can be Absorbed" [48 AP, 16 RP Cost]
Total Cost = 48 Points.

This way both are on and both can get to the maximum, but they require a seperate roll each for the different types of attacks coming in. The Limitation indicates that they share the same Maximum Total since they are really "one" power.

There's a catch though ... technically under 5E things that don't normally ocst END can't be placed in an EC w/o GM Permission, so this one definitely requires GM Permission. But it's an idea.

[Hugh Neilson]

As a GM, I'd be inclined to just handwave the pools for maximum absorption and let the character have one aggregate pool to absorb to. Maybe make it a +1/4 advantage, since pooling the max' will be advantageous in some cases.

Charging a character double for the ability to absorb both physical and energy seems unreasonable when they could have both Absorbs for the same cost, and potentially absorb twice as much per phase.

On the other hand, I wouldn't allow a Linked limitation since there's no reason either power would ever be "off".

[WhammeWhamme]

Thought: Isn't total points gain capped for ALL Adjustment powers affecting a stat as the max of the highest one?

In that case, two Absorbtion powers wouldn't overlap.

[Cardinal]

Thanks to everyone for the feedback.

In response to Hugh, do you mean the 1/4 advantage would go on each absorption and then you would aggregate the totals from the two together (i.e. 4D6 E + 4D6 P = 48 pts Total), or would it be to allow both absorptions to feed into the same total (which in the case above would be 24)?

Would you give any value to the limitation that only X is absorbed per phase despite having two separate absorptions that presumably would allow a larger number normally?

WhammeWhamme, 5E (p.73) indicates that "if two different characters use separate versions of one of these powers on the same character's Characteristic or Power , the maximum number of points they can add to that character equals the largest maximum for any of the powers used." I can see how this would be interpreted to limit the total that can be absorbed in this case even though it is being done by one character with two different powers.

What does this mean in terms of how you buy it. Do you need to buy up the max to be the same for both powers in this circumstances? For example, if the power was 4D6 E Aborption + 16 max - 40 total (28AP) plus 4d6 P absorption (20 AP), would you judge that Energy and phsycial could be any combination up to 40 or that E could be absorbed up to 40 pts, but the character would max out on P at 24 pts?

Does it change the analysis if the power is bought with the 1/4 variable adv? Per the FAQ, in this case there would be a sep. max for each characteristic (i.e. a 4d6 absorption with the 1/4 adv. could be used to absorb up to 24 pts to each of the designated related group of abilities of characteristics - assuming 4 target stats, this would be effectively 96 total pts absorbed).

How much of a limitation would it be that the aggregate pts. contributed to all characteristics is limited to X?

Any additional thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

[Hugh Neilson]

Thanks to everyone for the feedback.

In response to Hugh, do you mean the 1/4 advantage would go on each absorption and then you would aggregate the totals from the two together (i.e. 4D6 E + 4D6 P = 48 pts Total), or would it be to allow both absorptions to feed into the same total (which in the case above would be 24)?

Remembering that this is all off the cuff and I haven't thought it through. I did have a 4e character who had Phys and En Absorb, plus Transfer, and we agreed he would have one pool, but lower than to total of the three, for no point variance. That's as far as my "experiment" has gone.

If you had 4d6 Energy and 4d6 Physical, I would charge the +1/4 advantage on each, so you have a 30 point cost for each, 60 points in aggregate. Each absorption would work separately, so you could gain 4d6 CP from energy and 4d6 from physical. The maximum total absorbed at any one time would be 48 CP in agregate (24 + 24).

I don't see this as a huge benefit - the only bonus you get is that, if you're fighting Grond, you can potentially get to 48 CP instead of 24, so there's some advantage. With a mixed bag of opponents, you'll likely hit max even without the advantage.

BTW, when you have Physical absorption, Move By and Move Through are your friend!


Would you give any value to the limitation that only X is absorbed per phase despite having two separate absorptions that presumably would allow a larger number normally?

Seems to me that's limiting, so I would apply a limitation. How much would depend on how high the limit was. Continuing with 4d6 each, assume a cap of 4d6 total for the phase. To me, you should pay more than the cost of 4d6 absorption for that, since you can absorb physical AND energy, but less than the cost of 2 4d6 Absorb's, since those could get 48 in total. My gut feel would be -1/2 if you had two equal Absorbs and they were limited to the dice one could normally absorb. I'd probably shorthand it in game and have you just roll 4d6, and that's the total you can absorb from both physical and energy that phase.


WhammeWhamme, 5E (p.73) indicates that "if two different characters use separate versions of one of these powers on the same character's Characteristic or Power , the maximum number of points they can add to that character equals the largest maximum for any of the powers used." I can see how this would be interpreted to limit the total that can be absorbed in this case even though it is being done by one character with two different powers.


Q: Suppose a character has a Multipower with two Fixed Slots: Transfer SPD 5d6 and Drain SPD 5d6. Could he use both powers on the same target at full effect (30 + 30 = 60 points removed from the target) — or, because they’re both Adjustment Powers and fairly similar, would he only be able to achieve a maximum of 30 points removed from the target?

A: They’re two seperate powers, so the character could remove a total of 60 points’ worth of SPD from a single target.

Assuming a close relation between the powers in terms of special effects and such, it would be reasonable to apply a -1/2 Limitation to both powers so you can only use one of them on a given target.

Of course, there's actually no cap on drain, but there you go. IDHTBIFOM, but I think the rule you refer to is for Healing, and maybe Aid. I don't believe it applies to Absorpton, or Phys and En absorb would be a basically useless combo.


What does this mean in terms of how you buy it. Do you need to buy up the max to be the same for both powers in this circumstances? For example, if the power was 4D6 E Aborption + 16 max - 40 total (28AP) plus 4d6 P absorption (20 AP), would you judge that Energy and phsycial could be any combination up to 40 or that E could be absorbed up to 40 pts, but the character would max out on P at 24 pts?

I'm inclined to say no. I don't see why you couldn't have a max of 40 with one power and 20 with the other, for a 60 point grand total pool. If each one pays +1/4 (if that's the settled advantage), there's no reason to require each to have the same maximum.


Does it change the analysis if the power is bought with the 1/4 variable adv? Per the FAQ, in this case there would be a sep. max for each characteristic (i.e. a 4d6 absorption with the 1/4 adv. could be used to absorb up to 24 pts to each of the designated related group of abilities of characteristics - assuming 4 target stats, this would be effectively 96 total pts absorbed).

Doesn't change my analysis. I might look closer at the power as a GM, but that's the way the variable effect works - you get a separate pool for each item affected.


How much of a limitation would it be that the aggregate pts. contributed to all characteristics is limited to X?

Depends how that limit compares to the total which could otherwise be added. I would consider this a partially limited power, such that the limitation only reduces the cost of the variable effect advantage, and not of the underlying power, but I'd probably give a fairly high limitation if the maximum effect significantly reduces the number of characteristcs that can be maxed out.

This is all stuff to discuss with your GM - my numbers may not be what he would use, or vice versa. Bet on a wide array of opinions if this were looked at by a lot of board members (I'm surprised no one's critcized my suggestions yet!).