Cities that need heroes

[Hermit]

While thinking with mild amusement that 90% of all Marvel's universe was in New York City (Which only makes sense, that's where the company is), and eagerly awaiting the arrival of Millenium City; I began to consider filling out a few NPC hero teams in other parts of my own universe. Also, looking at where a new PC group might start up once this campaign in MC died (I'm such an optimist*S*)

Population came to mind chiefly (though not solely) as an indicator of which cities might more logically have them. So I did a quick and sloppy search on the net to find the ten most populated cities in the United States.
While the top three were no surprise, the others after didn't seem to be used much in games at all.

The list is :
1) New York City, NY
2) Los Angles, CA
3) Chicago, IL
4) Houston, TX
5) Philedelphia, PA
6) Phoenix, AZ
7) San Diego, CA
8) Dallas, TX
9) San Antonio, TX
10) Detroit, MI (Which, in 5th CU is gone, MC on it's place.. so let's bring in the runner up)
11) San Jose, CA

It looks like Texas alone could handle 3 or 4 more teams in it. :)

Has anyone used any on this list besides the top 3 for their campaign settings?
For that matter, I fully recognize population isn't everything. What would be your list of top ten super heroic cities in the U.S, and why? (IF you feel so inclined, this isn't a quiz*S*)

I left out the cities outside the United States, no insult intended there.

[MilkmanDan]

Well, DC's an obvious choice for multiple regions. While not top-ten, it's got a large population plus is an attractive target for all sorts of symbolic reasons.

Plus I live there, so, ya know, it's even more attractive as a setting for me. "You blew up the 7-11. No, you know, the one at the corner of Cedar at Route 29. Yeah, the one that always has the sour raspberry Slurpees."

[Law Dog]

Some A$$hole down at Marvel decided that at least for the southwest, the villains would be "themed". Anybody remember the abominations that were Cactus, Gila, Sunstroke and Butte (the Butte of all jokes). I'd like to plant my foot in this idiots groin. If they designed New York villains according to this nonsense, we'd find Taxi-Cab Hack, the Mugger and Smells-like-Urine Subway Dweller as part of the villains that Spidey and Daredevil would be facing.

[Supreme]

A friend of mine maintained that a city can only "support" one hero per million population. Though super-heroes can come from such an un-urban setting as Kansas, they are drawn to large cities to combat crime and other evils. If a city has too many heroes some of the heroes will get bored having no crime left to beat and move on to another city. Going by that math, most of California has no supers for most of the 20th Century.

[BNakagawa]

Although it doesn't appear on the list, SF is probably a prime candidate.

More important than the simple population of a city, you should consider the greater sprawl. Taken as a whole, the bay area ranks pretty high on that list. Broken into individual cities, only San Jose makes the list and even then, only because Detroit has been obliterated.

$0.02

[Hermit]

Actually, that's the interesting thing... San Fran is one of the "3 most active cities" mentioned in the 5th CU book (Right along with NYC and Chicago). Likely for the reasons you mentioned.

I guess a good deal of it is how glamourous/exciting a city seems as portrayed in most medias. Since most media is based (correct me if I'm wrong) in NYC or California, those are the cities we'll see folks using for superheroes.
I imagine New Orleans and Las Vegas might also be prime spots for the 'glamour' effect.

[Uncle Shecky]

Originally posted by Hermit
Actually, that's the interesting thing... San Fran is one of the "3 most active cities" mentioned in the 5th CU book (Right along with NYC and Chicago). Likely for the reasons you mentioned.

Or maybe because Darren Watts lives in San Fran. He's handing out super powers like candy!

[Hermit]

Originally posted by Uncle Shecky
Or maybe because Darren Watts lives in San Fran. He's handing out super powers like candy!
Yeah, but wouldn't Greensboro NC have a lot more super heroes then as well? Or is Steve just not as generous? :)

Hmm, though it WOULD explain why Ben works for peanuts... much like Green Lantern, he must recharge himself and Darren is the living battery for much of the DoJ. I mean, we THOUGHT Watts was just Darren's last name, but what if it's a clue to the secret power source?

:D

[winterhawk]

In a stroke of ultimate geekiness, I researched the 2000 Census and calculated the number of heroes in the largest population centers in the U.S. of at least a population of 500K I think I based on one hero per half million people, rounded up.

City #/Heroes
New York 21
L.A. 16
Chicago 9
Baltimore/DC 8
San Fran 7
Boston 7
Philly 6
Detroit 5
Dallas 5
Houston 5
Miami 4
Atlanta 4
Seattle 4
Phoenix 3
San Diego 3
Denver 3
Minneapolis 3
St. Louis 3
Cleveland 3
Sacramento 2
Orlando 2
Tampa 2
Indianapolis 2
Kansas City 2
Las Vegas 2
Cincinnati 2
Columbus 2
Pittsburgh 2
San Juan, PR 2
San Antonio 2
Norfolk 2
Portland 2
Milwaukee 2
Birmingham 1
Mobile 1
Little Rock 1
Tucson 1
Bakersfield 1
Fresno 1
Stockton 1
CO Springs 1
Hartford 1
Jacksonville 1
Palm Beach 1
Sarasota 1
Honolulu 1
Ft. Wayne 1
Wichita 1
Louisville 1
Baton Rouge 1
New Orleans 1
Springfield 1
Grand Rapids 1
Greensboro 1
Raliegh-Durham 1
Omaha 1
Albuquerque 1
Albany 1
Buffalo 1
Rochester 1
Syracuse 1
Dayton 1
Toledo 1
Youngstown 1
OKC 1
Tulsa 1
Allentown 1
Harrisburg 1
Scranton 1
Providence 1
Charleston 1
Charlotte 1
Columbia 1
Greenville 1
Knoxville 1
Memphis 1
Nashville 1
Austin 1
El Paso 1
McAllen 1
SLC, Utah 1
Richmond 1

[Mayday]

I'd think Seattle a good place for a game with Microsoft right there. I was in a WoD game set just north of here and so researched the area a bit. Its nice.

Also, Silicon Valley/California. They have useful resources and good climate, plus Hollywood is just over there for hiring staff to memorialize your epic takeover of the world. With a good movie or two, you might even become popular in the process. Wouldn't the heroes just hate that.....

[Trebuchet]

El Paso is bigger than Minneapolis and St. Paul combined with it's 570,000 people. So we should have at least 2, and you gave Minneapolis 3. If you count El Paso's sister city of Juarez which is as close to El Paso as St. Paul is to Minneapolis (Right across a small river you can literally wade across), Mexico, with a population of between 1,500,000 and 2,000,000 then this area should rate at least 4 if not 5 supers.

Viva El Paso! :D

[Hermit]

Poor Captain Knoxville... all alone. *Sniffs*

:) Nice list. Very useful your geekiness.

[Captain Super]

I've always set my campaigns in the nearest major city, Detroit or in college days, Indy. Although the glamor of NYC and LA might be intriging for some, there is nothing better than a fight in a major metropolitan area where all of the players have seen the locale with their own eyes.

(For those of you who have visited the very limited joys of Downtown Detroit . . .What a blast when the Spirit of Detroit Statue came to life and destroyed the people mover and the Joe Louis fist, and moved to destroy Joe Louis Arena before its destruction)

[winterhawk]

Originally posted by Hermit
Poor Captain Knoxville... all alone. *Sniffs*

:) Nice list. Very useful your geekiness.

Thanks...Now if I could only convince my gf of that :P

[ZootSoot]

Miami just seems a great city for supers. You got sun, sea and sleaze all together there. Its got urban gloss, redneck charm, racial unrest, decadence and cocaine. It's a great package.

[TheEmerged]

Looks like Boll Weevil and I have Cincinnati covered :D

[DrSavant]

Every once in awhile a GM will set up a game in his own home city, or at least a nearby one.
I had a hero group stationed in New Jersey, and one in Philadelphia. I then tried other states and cities, the last one I had was in Jacksonville ILLINOIS.

[Wormhole]

Tulsa can only have one?:confused:
I guess me and Cybernaut will have to do alittle rock-paper-scissors to see who can stay.:eek:

[Crusader108]

Grand Rapids 1

Alright!!!!! G.R. made the list! Now all we need is a Crusader. :D

[Thirdbase]

Originally posted by winterhawk
In a stroke of ultimate geekiness, I researched the 2000 Census and calculated the number of heroes in the largest population centers in the U.S. of at least a population of 500K I think I based on one hero per half million people, rounded up.

I think that is 1/million rounding the population to the nearest million. Using this method the state of Wyoming doesn't even rate a single Hero. Pop 493,782.

[altamaros]

Originally posted by Hermit
For that matter, I fully recognize population isn't everything. What would be your list of top ten super heroic cities in the U.S, and why?

Sunnydale,CA ?

[death tribble]

In campaigning, the large cities would have more heroes because of the transport links as well.

So for example London, Paris and Rome would be bases for Superteams while Oudenarde (in Belgium) would not.

You also have to consider that cities like Miami, Boston, New York, Chicago and San Francisco are gateway cities into the US. And New York also has the United Nations organization.
So population is part of the concern but should not be the only factor.

DC would attract more attention because it is the capital.

[Thirdbase]

Nome Alaska needs a Hero. Any volunteers?

[Law Dog]

Originally posted by Thirdbase
I think that is 1/million rounding the population to the nearest million. Using this method the state of Wyoming doesn't even rate a single Hero. Pop 493,782.

However, Mesa, AZ is estimated to hit the 500,000 mark before 2010. I guess we'll get our hero thereabouts. It's a dirty job, but what the hell, I'll do it.

[Space Cadet]

Originally posted by TheEmerged
Looks like Boll Weevil and I have Cincinnati covered :D

Let's not forget the other Cincinnatians on the list here...
after all, a town can never have too many heroes, right?

Space Cadet :cool:

[Hermit]

Originally posted by Space Cadet
Let's not forget the other Cincinnatians on the list here...
after all, a town can never have too many heroes, right?

Space Cadet :cool:
Clearly, the ancient snake mounds of Ohio have enfused its population with great power.


Then again, I've always wanted to run a Tick Ish campaign where the center of all cosmic import (and weirdness) was... Iowa. I want to have some hero actually be able to say
"You don't understand! So goes Des Moines, so goes the world!!!" :)

[Mutant for Hire]

Going by straight population distribution is a bad idea. It's predicated on two assumptions that when closely examined a case can easily be made that neither one is true.

1. The distribution of metahuman origins precisely matches the general population distribution.
2. Metahumans after having their origins will remain in their community.

Let's take each of them in turn. First off, origins tend to happen in the presence of violence or weird phenomena, or require some sort of technological, magical or martial arts background. These phenomena tend to favor some areas over others.

Take Florida as an example. Due to the drug trade, one expects the rate of origins to be considerably higher there than many much more populated states that don't have the crime problem that Flordia has. You are likely to see a lot of powers woken in a near-death experience or the grim avengers type as a result.

Likewise, areas with a low population but a lot of high tech or mystic phenomena are likely to have a much higher rate of origins as well. Sliicon Valley is likely to have a fairly high incidence of technology-based heroes simply because of all the technology there. As for mystic areas, look at Buffy the Vampire Slayer and the Hellmouth for inspiration.

Now of course this depends a lot on the origin story for powers in the world, but I tend to think in most cases the origins are going to have an uneven distribution, centering on problem spots of various sorts.

Now there are exceptions of course, but that gets us to the second point. Assume for a second there is a town where statistics indicate there will be two supers. Assume for argument's sake one is a superhero and the other one is a supervillain.

Now the question is, will the supervillain remain in town? Compare the money to be made in one of those population million towns with the money to be made in the much larger cities. Likely as not, as soon as the villain has mastered their powers and practiced a bit on the local population honing their skills (assuming they are smart) they're going to head off for where the real money is to be made. If they're not so smart, they'll head off direct.

So what is our superhero to do? Even assuming he's not the fame and fortune type, will the superhero really feel needed in a town with no supervillain crime? Their powers are to some extent going to be wasted there. Their powers are best used combatting supervillains. Which means when the supervillain leaves town, so does the superhero. And of course superheroes wanting to be famous are going to go where the action is.

Again, the areas of Florida that see a lot of the drug trade are really going to see a rise in supervillains as everyone hires superpowered muscle to deal with rivals and with all the superheroes that are going to be attracted to the area.

These two forces more or less feed into each other. Supervillains and by reaction superheroes are going to tend to drift to certain areas and as a result those places are going to have higher-than-normal origin rates.

In my next post, I'm going to look at the counterforce acting on the two forces mentioned here.

[Mutant for Hire]

I'm not a biologist, so take this with a grain of salt. But my basic view of superheroes and supervillains is that of two species of predator. The non-super population can be viewed as a strictly prey species.

The supervillain community exists feeding off of the prey species. As I observed in a last post, this species will migrate to where the feeding is best. The superhero community is a predator species that preys strictly on the supervillain predator species. As a result, the superhero population migrates to match the supervillain population distribution.

Now there isn't an infinite prey population for the supervillain community to feed on. The more supervillains in an area, the less there is to go around. As a result, there is going to be pressure against supervillain migration to attractive areas by the supervillain population already in place, which has nothing to gain and much to lose by the inclusion of additional supervillains.

As a result, there is going to be a weeding effect among the established supervillain population in the attractive areas. There are tactics to counter this, such as the formation of supervillain teams or the additions of superpowered minions for a powerful supervillain. Some supervillains may take hit and run tactics, hoping to get in and out before the local supervillain population notices they've been through there.

But on average there is not just going to be a supervillain population distribution showing the attractiveness of the areas to supervillains but there will also be a supervillain power distribution that also echoes the attractiveness of an area. Places like Miami are on average going to have more powerful villains than less attractive places.

Incidentally this power spike can work against the population distribution. The more powerful the individual elements are, the more they are going to want to grab and the larger their 'territory' is likely to be. Think of it as the attractiveness of a region forming a sort of character point pool to be divded up among all the supervillains of the region and their minions. The fewer the villains the more powerful they are and the larger the turf they will claim so the more money comes in to them.

Now what about our superhero population? The most powerful superheroes will migrate to the areas with the most powerful villains, and they are going to exert pressure on the less powerful heroes to keep out of town as a result. Those that don't may well end up getting themselves annihilated by a supervillain team they end up crossing by accident.

The natural place for them to migrate to are the areas where all the weaker supervillains were shoved out to, who are more on their own level. In the end, the superhero population migrates to match the distribution of the supervillain population.

Now a lot of supervillains may adopt a nomadic strategy rather than a stationary strategy. That is, find a town where there are no superheroes (or at least known ones) and hit it for all its worth and then move on. This is a strategy favored by low power types that can't even make minion grade for a more established supervillain team. I'm not exactly sure how the superhero community will evolve to deal with this phenomena but someone will come up with something to deal with transient supervillains.

In my last post, I'm going to put everything together for a discussion of results.

[Mutant for Hire]

In the end, you have to look at the hot spots that will attract supervillain types. Money, political power, technology to loot, mystic power are the basic ones. There may be others but offhand I can't think of any.

The most powerful spots of these types will attract the most powerful supervillains and supervillain teams, who will then weed the weaker villains out until they can't drive anyone else out, not without risking being hit by a third party. The population roster will be stable until a stronger outside supervillain or team can muscle in and displace a weaker one.

The local population will bring in superheroes until they have enough power to deal with the local supervillain problem, and have superhero teams that are capable of taking on these local threats and coming out alive. Weaker superheroes will be strongly discouraged from coming to the city, for their own survival. Given that the cities the weaker villains driven out of these cities will be in demand of heroes, those heroes are more likely to go to those places instead.

The type of supervillain that you find in a region depends heavily on what there is to attract a supervillain to that place in the first place. New York has Wall Street and the NYSE. Washington DC has our nation's capital. Miami has drugs/drug money flowing through it. Silicon Valley has technology. And of course there are whatever areas you deem to have mystic significance. LA will get those supervillains who want to see their names and faces in the media more than anything. Naturally, you tend to get superheroes of a matching type as well in these places.

Incidentally, the presence of high tech teams in a high tech region only adds to the high tech attraction factor of the place. Ditto for magic. The more mystic heroes and villains and the artifacts/spellbooks they bring, the more mystic attraction a place tends to have. For that matter, if you're playing the mutant card in your universe, the larger the mutant community in an area, the more attractive it is for mutant superheroes and supervillains. Mutant supervillains can find a civilian mutant population to blend into and the mutant superhero population has greater support from the mutant community. The social factor also affects high tech and mystic heroes and villains, who will find it easier to work together and socialize with each other in their off hours.

So to address Hermit's last point in my last point: what the heck are supervillain teams doing down in Texas? What's the attraction down there for them?

So to answer Hermit's original question, a GM has to map out where the greatest amount of money, legal or illegal is flowing around, where are the high tech centers that attract the tech types, and where are the mystic sites of power that will attract those interested in the occult. As well as oddball places like LA/Hollywood and sites where civilian mutant communities will form.

Not that the straight population distribution is totally useless. People tend to go where the money is and move away from financially impovrished areas. It's a good starting point but in the end you have to start looking at all the other factors to really come up with a good idea of where heroes and villains are going to be found.

And in some ways I see the thing being a more granular echo of the baseball system. There are the major leagues and the minor leagues. There are the cities where the heavy hitters live and protect (or loot) and there are the small fry that either work for the heavy hitters or decide to be big fish in small ponds. And due to feedback effect you're going to find a non-even distribution of origin types.

So let me posit a question Hermit: what are three or four supervillain teams going to be finding it worth going after in Texas to bring down three or four superhero teams to go after them?

[Hermit]

Excellent posts Mutant for Hire... though in defense of myself, I remind you I said from the start population was only ONE Thing to take into account.

As for Texas... well, I'd ask a Texan, but going by some guess work and your own theories...

Texas is a gateway between the United States in Mexico. The fact that some of the passage might be illegal (unlawful immigration, drugs, whatever) would only enhance villain hero interaction, akin to Miami for Florida.

Texas is still rich in oil/mineral wealth...

as for the supernatural side of things... I don't know the Amerind tribes of Old Texas well enough to say, but I think there would be potiential for shamanistic sort of mysticism. On the flip side, the monestaries etc established before Texas gained its indepence could be used by a clever GM ... perhaps there were Infernal forces that needed to be fought.. and might yet rise again.

For some specific cities...
Dallas has become one of the Southwest's leading business and cultural centers. The city houses the main offices of major Oil companies. I believe it's one of the nation's main fashion centers, and been involved in the production of comercials and short films. Ft. Worth, nearby, is less fashionable and sophisticated perhaps, but has things like a Muesuem Complex within a four square block area.
(Besides, Six Flags Over Texas is pretty close, and Amusement park superbattles can be a hoot)

Houston is not only extremely populated, it is intricately tied to the space program. How's that for 'Tech'? :) Houston, as of 1996, was ranked 1st in the nation when it comes to manufacturing and distrubution of Petrolium equipment. It is a port city. The Texas Medical Center, near downtown, is a world renowned medical facility.

San Antonio, home of the Alamo, is the third largest city in Texas, and while it may not have some of the same super draws as Dallas/Ft. Worth or Houston, it does have history.

Really, natives of said state could tell you more.

Over all, I think Texas meets all your criteria... the only down side is it doesn't have as glamourous as rep as L.A., NYC or San Fran... but any Super Villain doing his homework would see it as a choice plum waiting to be plucked.

I like the sports analogy btw, and have had similar thoughts myself. Then again, the Texans I've met are almost obnoxiously (Sorry guys) into Sports teams. I imagine they'd embrace super hero teams with equal fervor.

[Law Dog]

An home to heroes like Derrick - The human oil well.

bwahaha

[Hermit]

What a "Crude" pun... ;)

[Law Dog]

I thought it was pretty "slick". Alas, oils well that ends well.


Somebody hit me.

[Hermit]

Originally posted by Law Dog



Somebody hit me.
*POW*

We're here for you man. :)

(Rats, I continue to derail the thread... stupid instincts)

[Mutant for Hire]

Originally posted by Hermit
Excellent posts Mutant for Hire... though in defense of myself, I remind you I said from the start population was only ONE Thing to take into account.

My apologies. I was just trying to counter the focus on population in some fo the other posts.


As for Texas... well, I'd ask a Texan, but going by some guess work and your own theories...

Texas is a gateway between the United States in Mexico. The fact that some of the passage might be illegal (unlawful immigration, drugs, whatever) would only enhance villain hero interaction, akin to Miami for Florida.

Not sure about the unlawful immigration stance. Not a huge amount of money there, I'd think. Drugs certainly. It would also be the corridor for Central/South American supervillains heading into the United States illegally or working the drug trade.


Texas is still rich in oil/mineral wealth...

Yes, but you can't quite rob an oil well or a mine the way you would a bank. :)


as for the supernatural side of things... I don't know the Amerind tribes of Old Texas well enough to say, but I think there would be potiential for shamanistic sort of mysticism. On the flip side, the monestaries etc established before Texas gained its indepence could be used by a clever GM ... perhaps there were Infernal forces that needed to be fought.. and might yet rise again.

This is better, though we end up getting dangerously close to the stereotyping thread elsewhere. But yes, a lot of non-Native American magicians can enter this area as well seeking to exploit the resources here or deal with older powers buried here accidentally unearthed by developers.


For some specific cities...
Dallas has become one of the Southwest's leading business and cultural centers. The city houses the main offices of major Oil companies. I believe it's one of the nation's main fashion centers, and been involved in the production of comercials and short films. Ft. Worth, nearby, is less fashionable and sophisticated perhaps, but has things like a Muesuem Complex within a four square block area.
(Besides, Six Flags Over Texas is pretty close, and Amusement park superbattles can be a hoot)

I would say that gives it a fairly cosmopolitan superhero/supervillain community. It probably needs a range of types to deal with mystic threats and technological threats as well as those just looking for the money or raiding the museum.


Houston is not only extremely populated, it is intricately tied to the space program. How's that for 'Tech'? :) Houston, as of 1996, was ranked 1st in the nation when it comes to manufacturing and distrubution of Petrolium equipment. It is a port city. The Texas Medical Center, near downtown, is a world renowned medical facility.

So Houston naturally becomes the place to find heroes and villains with scientific origins, especially ones concerning space. If you have alien supers, they might even tend to congregate here and by the network effect it becomes the place for aliens to live on Earth or at least in North America. And given the more advanced technology you find, the space program in this world probably gives Houston a lot more to do as well. As the coordinating center for American Earth to orbit traffic that makes it a target to hit, especially by those who have ambitious plans for space. I can see Houston actually getting more activity than Dallas.


Over all, I think Texas meets all your criteria... the only down side is it doesn't have as glamourous as rep as L.A., NYC or San Fran... but any Super Villain doing his homework would see it as a choice plum waiting to be plucked.

At first it is, until you hit the equilibrium point. Then you have a steady stream of heroes and villains coming to Texas expecting to find easy pickings and all of a sudden discovering the entrenched superhero and supervillain community does not consider Texas a ripe plum for picking.

As a result, in the superhero/villain community, at least those with any time in it, Texas is likely to develop a reputation as the major focus for major league supers activity in the south. In the public eye, it is viewed as minor league and view the Texans claim to major league status as just typical Texan boasting. PRIMUS and those in the know, know that Texas is major league and warn any superheroes going into the area to clear things first with a local team before they get a nasty surprise.


I like the sports analogy btw, and have had similar thoughts myself. Then again, the Texans I've met are almost obnoxiously (Sorry guys) into Sports teams. I imagine they'd embrace super hero teams with equal fervor.
I keep wondering when cities looking to increase their budgets start sponsoring friendly 'superhero showdowns' between different cities. :)

[Hermit]

Originally posted by Mutant for Hire
My apologies. I was just trying to counter the focus on population in some fo the other posts.
Not a problem. :)



Not sure about the unlawful immigration stance. Not a huge amount of money there, I'd think. Drugs certainly. It would also be the corridor for Central/South American supervillains heading into the United States illegally or working the drug trade.

Actually, I saw a show where some unsavory sorts made quite a lot smuggling immigrants in, and contracting the poor guys out like slaves for a time. It may not have been accurate, but I can see some stories cropping up from it.



Yes, but you can't quite rob an oil well or a mine the way you would a bank. :)

*L* I doubt very much most Texan cities are lacking banks to rob. Good point though.
However, Oil reserves can be threatened. If a villain threatened to destroy or burn such... a hero team might have a very weird situation where black gold was held hostage.



This is better, though we end up getting dangerously close to the stereotyping thread elsewhere. But yes, a lot of non-Native American magicians can enter this area as well seeking to exploit the resources here or deal with older powers buried here accidentally unearthed by developers.


Yeah, some research would help flesh that out.



I would say that gives it a fairly cosmopolitan superhero/supervillain community. It probably needs a range of types to deal with mystic threats and technological threats as well as those just looking for the money or raiding the museum.

And if you want to make a criminal mastermind , you could use JR.Ewing as a role-model. :)



So Houston naturally becomes the place to find heroes and villains with scientific origins, especially ones concerning space. If you have alien supers, they might even tend to congregate here and by the network effect it becomes the place for aliens to live on Earth or at least in North America. And given the more advanced technology you find, the space program in this world probably gives Houston a lot more to do as well. As the coordinating center for American Earth to orbit traffic that makes it a target to hit, especially by those who have ambitious plans for space. I can see Houston actually getting more activity than Dallas.


I am inclined to agree with you. If I were keeping METE for 5th, I might be tempted to put it in Houston.

Also, I wouldn't be surprised if Houston and Dallas/Ft Worth had something of a super rivalry develop.



At first it is, until you hit the equilibrium point. Then you have a steady stream of heroes and villains coming to Texas expecting to find easy pickings and all of a sudden discovering the entrenched superhero and supervillain community does not consider Texas a ripe plum for picking.

True, but the actions of that might help add a bit of glamour and rep on a more national scale eventually.



As a result, in the superhero/villain community, at least those with any time in it, Texas is likely to develop a reputation as the major focus for major league supers activity in the south. In the public eye, it is viewed as minor league and view the Texans claim to major league status as just typical Texan boasting. PRIMUS and those in the know, know that Texas is major league and warn any superheroes going into the area to clear things first with a local team before they get a nasty surprise.

Mmm, a bunch of arrogant yankee supers come down South to what they think is the boondocks, only to get their butts trounced. For some reason, this appeals to my Southern Sensabilities. ;)


I keep wondering when cities looking to increase their budgets start sponsoring friendly 'superhero showdowns' between different cities. :)

Ack. Get out of my head. I was actually working on a possible submission to DH regarding this very sort of thing. :)

[Mutant for Hire]

Originally posted by Hermit

Actually, I saw a show where some unsavory sorts made quite a lot smuggling immigrants in, and contracting the poor guys out like slaves for a time. It may not have been accurate, but I can see some stories cropping up from it.

I just came up with another reason supervillains get involved here: guess where a lot of supervillains get their experimental lab subjects from? I expect to see a lot of origins stories, heroic and villanous here.

No doubt those who are willing to become superheroes have an easier time getting their green cards. I don't exactly see the US trying to deport superpowered immigrants who are willing to work for the side of law and order. They might not be put on border patrol due to sympathies but they would probably be put to dealing with supervillains who deal in illegal immigrants in a bad way.

[Mutant for Hire]

Okay, let me go over a few places that don't tend to make everyone's top ten lists but probably should be. Hermit has done a magnificent job with Texas, so let me cover a few other places:

Las Vegas:
Minor league in name and perception only. Technically most supers who've been there or study the place conclude that it is major league in terms of threat level to any super passing through. The place is a very attractive target due to all the gambling money there. The casino owners know it and so have hired the very best mercenary supers that money can get (sometimes from Miami) and then back them up with a squadron of lawyers that are very good at getting 'excessive force' charges dropped. Supervillains who try to knock over a casino have a very high fatality rate and most of the rest end up crippled for life.

Of course this is done with a view towards minimizing the violence in the eyes of the tourists, so as not to scare them. That is the major reason the casino owners object to outside superheroes in Las Vegas. They are too soft on criminals and often do more property dmaage and scare tourists more. Unsactioned superhero activity in Vegas tends to be strongly discouraged, though usually its more through restraining orders than force.

Oh yes, supervillains who think their telepathy, clairvoyance, precogntion or cyber/telekinesis will win them a fortune in Vegas are in for a very bad surprise. Whether its magical, technological, psionic or whatever, most government agencies consider the Vegas casinos to be some of the most secure areas on the planet. In general, supers are not allowed to gamble at those places unless they have been cleaeed with the owners and in general only famous or rich (or preferably both) supers are allowed in to do that, as tourist draws.

Atlantic City and most other famous gambling centers around the planet more or less operate along similar principles. These places are in some ways not good places to set up campaigns but they are great places to send heros through, if only to give them a taste of going up against a high power, highly trained squad of supers that can scare the crap out of all but the most powerful teams elsewhere.

Universities:
Univerisities are breeding grounds for supers. They also tend to have a lot of resources that are very attractive to various sorts of supers on both sides of the law. The more prestigious universities probably have standing superhero teams, and not composed of undergraduates but rather a regular roster that sticks around and is paid out of university funds to deal with supervillain attacks and any disruptive origins.

Of course these days universities all have college superhero teams composed of undergraduates with complicated eligbility rules. Being a high school metahuman, brilliant inventor or mystic type, is a good way to get a college scholarship these days. These teams usually act as backup to the standing superhero teams, working crowd control, making sure that a disruptive event in one spot isn't a distraction for the main team. These teams also compete against other college superhero teams as well. In fact increasingly a lot of the professional superhero teams (or the cities that back them) are paying a lot of attention to would be superheroes on the college circuit. A few supervillains as well.

Universities tend to be very annoyed about outside supers coming in uninvited. It isn't too difficult to get clearance to go in to one of these places, especially if its just a scientific consultation, though due to obvious potential complications superheroes have to clear things through the appropriate office first and have their need evaluated against potential liability. Not too many universities are willing to examine a Doctor Destroyer creation.

Obviously, university sports are getting increasingly good at detecting genetic/chemical alterations, cybernetic enhancements, and mystic power. Certain advanced forms of 'chi' training are currently being debated on the college and professional level. The results could have a profound impact on college and professional sports.

Universities would be a great place to base a superhero team, especially the college team. Origins all over the place, but what brings them together? Their scholarship money. Or they can be the anti-team that didn't make the official team and has to use secret IDs because they're operating in violation of university regulations,

[winterhawk]

Mutant, I really like your explanation for Vegas. I did something really similar in my last campaign. Each Casino had a very public hero, based on their theme (Ceasar's had the Centurion, Luxor had the Pharoh, etc.) that were very 'tourist friendly' and handled the minor crimes etc. Then there was a holdover from the 'Rat Pack' days called Wildcard, who used to work for the Mob, but now plyed his trade for Steve Wynn and Jack Binnion (?). He was one of those "we're not going to kill you, they're just not gonna find you" guys. I also did the "no heroes...unless they're whales" rule you mentioned.

[ZootSoot]

Originally posted by Mutant for Hire
<SNIP>Now a lot of supervillains may adopt a nomadic strategy rather than a stationary strategy. That is, find a town where there are no superheroes (or at least known ones) and hit it for all its worth and then move on. This is a strategy favored by low power types that can't even make minion grade for a more established supervillain team. I'm not exactly sure how the superhero community will evolve to deal with this phenomena but someone will come up with something to deal with transient supervillains.<SNIP>

Why nothing less than the latest in Police technology, the extremely adaptable, modular Turtle(tm) powered armor!

Anyone else remember that?

[Hermit]

Originally posted by ZootSoot
Why nothing less than the latest in Police technology, the extremely adaptable, modular Turtle(tm) powered armor!

Anyone else remember that?

I remember that. My players had a hard time taking it seriously :)

[SleepyDrug]

This is one of the best threads i've seen in awhile. I thought i'd toss out my thoughts. I also play vampire a lot and i found an article that suggested population density should be as important a factor as population. I think this holds for HERO because high density areas are also high crime areas.

My favorite digital hero article (now lost to the ravages of time) suggested adding other factors to that. My best attempt to reconstuct the list of modifiers gives us:

Population (base number)
Population Density (modifier)
Technological Center (modifier)
Research Center (modifier)
Toxic/Radioactive Storage or Source (modifier)
Academic Center (modifier)
Martial Arts tradition (modifier)
Mystic tradition (modifier)
Wealthy (modifier)
Impovershed (modifier)

Villains will relocate to where the money is and most super-villains will probably be nomadic. Heroes will base out of the large cities that are crime centers and have the resources they need.

[lemming]

Originally posted by ZootSoot
Why nothing less than the latest in Police technology, the extremely adaptable, modular Turtle(tm) powered armor!

Anyone else remember that?
Ah yes, the Turtle armor. I might incorporate them into my game, but mostly off screen.

The Vegas ideas are great. The mentalist portion isn't applicable as much, but I think most of it's very useful.

[Mutant for Hire]

Originally posted by SleepyDrug

Population (base number)
Population Density (modifier)
Technological Center (modifer)
Research Center (modifier)
Martial Arts tradition (modifier)
Mystic tradition (modifier)
Impovershed (modifier)

I abstracted/generalized a few. I took Academia and made it into Information Resource, to cover things like any place that has valuable databases, like the nation's capital. Universities on average are both research centers and information resources. And of course there's more to a superhero world than toxic waste or radioactive waste, so I generalized that as well. As for Monetary Foucs instead of wealthy? I wanted to cover places like Las Vegas, banking areas, and Wall Street which could be called wealthy but that's not the best word to use.

Information Resource (modifier)
Exotic/Mutagenic Resource (modifier)
Monetary Focus (modifier)

And here are some new ones:

Gateway/Port City (modifier)
Cultural/Media Center (modifier)
Political Center (modifier)
Military/Law Enforcement Center (modifier)
Crime Center (modifier)
Exotic Population (modifier)

Let me explain the last one. It was something I talked about in a couple of other posts. Houston, for example, could get a bunch of aliens living there because in a superhero universe it turns into a space port. The fact of the matter is that aliens crashing anywhere else could migrate to Houston because that's where other aliens live. A powerful mutant might establish a civilian mutant community somewhere, where mutants could live and work and have their own lives. That place will start accumilating mutants simply because other mutants are living there and often people feel more comfortable among their own kind.

Crime center is those places that see a lot of crime. Usually, its the effect of some other cause. Miami is a port city and so a lot of drug traffic flows through there, for example. But if a city develops an organized crime problem, it can magnify matters considerably.

And again, I would not get too hung up on base population. In fact I would prefer to ignore it. In general, I just go down the list and ask myself "what are the top cities for category X" and assume that by virtue of that they'll attract attention from certain types. New York, Los Angeles and Washington DC all hit the list more than once.


Villains will relocate to where the money is and most super-villains will probably be nomadic. Heroes will base out of the large cities that are crime centers and have the resources they need.
Few villains are truly nomadic. At best they might have a wide rangeof operations, but few villains don't want/need a base they can rest and relax and prepare for the next mission from. Few supervillain teams will want to travel especially far unless they have a global range teleporter available. Even then there are advantages to working a set area.

[SleepyDrug]

Excellent points.

I had worked it out from a national stand point. But you could do it on a city by city stand point.

What I was thinking of with the nomadic comment is that a villain will gladly relocate if prospects are poor in his hometown. For example, in Marvel both Pyro and Boomerang left Australia for the US because work is better in the states.

Moving on: this now gives us:

Population (base number) adjusted for Population Density
< 1 million = 1 per million
1-2 million = 1 per 750,000
2-3 million = 1 per 500,000
3-5 million = 1 per 100,000
5 million + = 1 per 50,000

Crime Center (modifier) +5%
Cultural/Media Center (modifier) +5%
Exotic Population (modifier) +5%
Exotic/Mutagenic Resource (modifier) +10%
Gateway/Port City (modifier) +5%
Information Resource (modifier) +10%
Martial Arts tradition (modifier) +15%
Military/Law Enforcement Center (modifier) +5%
Monetary Focus (modifier) +5%
Mystic tradition (modifier) +10%
Political Center (modifier) +5%
Technological Center (modifer) +15%

Do these figures work? and are we missing any important modifier catagories?

Lets experiment: New York City

18 million including metropolitan area = 360 Supers

Crime Center, Cultural Center, Exotic Population, Gateway City, Information Resource, Monetary Focus, Political Center, Tech Center = +55% total modifier

Total Super Population = 558

About right if we're in the Marvel Universe. The Density figures could be adjusted depending on what sort of universe you desire. Thoughts?

[Mutant for Hire]

Well, remember what I said in a previous post about counterforces. The question is whether there's enough loot in the city to support ~279 supervillains (assuming a 50/50 split and that's actually conservative). Most likely there are going to be wars of sort weeding out the weaker supervillains.

I'd use 558x<average point base for supervillain> as the base character point 'pool' for the superhero population of the city, and then I'd divide it by the hard cap of supers per capita period to give the mean point base for characters in the city. I'm not sure what power curve scale I'd draw around it.

What that means is that past a certain point, percentage boosts do not increase the numbers of supers in a city, they just increase the average power level of the supers in the city.

Actually there's some feedback effect because the more powerful the villain, the more greater the chunk of the city they're going to want to themselves. A supervillain X times as powerful as the average is going to want X times the take of an average supervillain.

It's really even more complicated when you factor in minions and supervillain teams. But the short of it is that there might well be fewer superheroes than you might expect on average in New York City but when you look at the gross power level, it's where its predicted by your formulae.

[MarkusDark]

This is one of those discussions on an idea that I often feel are thought about too much. As witnessed by the WB's Smallville - even a very rural farm community could need even more than one superhero depending upon the situation.

In my game, I created the "Big Five" because I wanted to have a "top five crime cities". I chose NY, Dallas, Miami, Chicago and LA just because those are the ones that first came to mind from media and entertainment. Whether or not it was true, I just said, "In my world, they are," and went from there. My game takes place in Philly, about an hour outside of NY so they get the 'spillage'.

I have played in other games where geographic regions have been broken down by super teams. I don't bother to do that as I rarely have my heroes or villians operating outside of the area of the game. I figure it is extra work that I could put into other stuff.

Just my 2 cents.

[Hermit]

Originally posted by MarkusDark
This is one of those discussions on an idea that I often feel are thought about too much. As witnessed by the WB's Smallville - even a very rural farm community could need even more than one superhero depending upon the situation.

Well, there is that... green rocks from space, or Energy X dropped by an alien ship etc will be a big factor. If the GM wants , the super creating incidnet will occur in an unlikely spot and radiate out from there.

Works well for 'Unified origins' settings.

[lemming]

Originally posted by Mutant for Hire I'd use 558x<average point base for supervillain> as the base character point 'pool' for the superhero population of the city, and then I'd divide it by the hard cap of supers per capita period to give the mean point base for characters in the city. I'm not sure what power curve scale I'd draw around it.

That reminds me of the Sam Bell Protector's. He used the premise that there were a set number of points per world, so on a pararell Earth where there were only 12 supers... :eek:

Somehow we sort of held our own and managed to get a seat on the council of worlds. Though we shared it with one of the villian teams that we'd had fights with over the years.

[Ranxerox]

Originally posted by Mutant for Hire
Going by straight population distribution is a bad idea. It's predicated on two assumptions that when closely examined a case can easily be made that neither one is true.

<snip>
2. Metahumans after having their origins will remain in their community.

<snip>


Bakersfield's hometown hero Roughneck has to remain in the community. His parole officer will not let him leave.

It is a long story involving a lot of beer. :D

[SleepyDrug]

Wait a moment and consider the power level question. If we have 279 villains, most of them will be on the lower end of the power structure. Important next question?

So what would be the breakdown of power levels?

Omega-class (1000+ point world threatening villains) 1% or 3 supers. Examples: Count Nefaria or Ultron

Alpha-class (300 to 1000 point first string) 24% or 67 supers. Examples: Diablo, Dr Octopus, Hobgoblin, Absorbing Man, Titania, Wrecker, Speed Demon

Beta-class (200 to 300 point second stringers) 35% or 98 supers. Examples: Shocker, Trapster, Constrictor

Gamma-class (150 to 200 point third stringers) 20% or 56 supers. Examples: Discus, Stiletto

Delta-class (100 to 150 point super lackeys) 20% or 56 supers. Examples: Split Second Squad.

If we are talking about a Marvel Universe NYC, i think these numbers are accurate. If we're in a more DC style place, we need to reduce them slightly because DC has a weak villain population. But adjusting the Population Density figure solves this problem nicely. Also, spillage is likely to be global in many cases, especially the higher point value villains. Most Omega's are worldwide villains. Consider, Dr Doom, Magneto, Mandarin in Marvel or Mordru, Obsidian, Injustice Gang in DC.

[Thirdbase]

I'm going to steal all this and use to get a PHD in comic book population distribution.

Seriously, sort of, I wouldn't use the Marvel Universe or DC as an example. Marvel has problems in that virtually all "Heroes" are either in NY or LA. Name one Chicago based hero and villain. And the DC Universe has multiple NYs under different names and is only slightly based in the real world.

[Mutant for Hire]

Originally posted by Thirdbase
I'm going to steal all this and use to get a PHD in comic book population distribution.

Seriously, sort of, I wouldn't use the Marvel Universe or DC as an example. Marvel has problems in that virtually all "Heroes" are either in NY or LA. Name one Chicago based hero and villain. And the DC Universe has multiple NYs under different names and is only slightly based in the real world.

On the flip side, we've been coming up with some fairly compelling arguments as to why NY and LA are the primary foci for superhero activity. Of course yes, Chicago, Dallas and Miami would also be places of significance and Marvel does tend to neglect those places. On the flip flip side, there's nothing that says that those cities don't get a lot of activity off-camera, so to speak.

[SleepyDrug]

Now it depends on what sort of universe you want to run.

A Marvel-style campaign centers on cities with 10 million + people.

A DC style city focues on major cities under fictional names. Flash is in St. Louis, if you think about it. Wonder Woman in DC, Martian Manhunter in Denver..

Champions universe centers in a fictional mega city.


Question is, is my logic flawed? or just not suited to your universe?

[Thirdbase]

Originally posted by Mutant for Hire
On the flip side, we've been coming up with some fairly compelling arguments as to why NY and LA are the primary foci for superhero activity. Of course yes, Chicago, Dallas and Miami would also be places of significance and Marvel does tend to neglect those places. On the flip flip side, there's nothing that says that those cities don't get a lot of activity off-camera, so to speak.

I remember an Avengers issue from the early 90's I think where an earth shattering event occurs in Chicago, and there is a panel with two Chicago Cops looking at both Avenger teams and several other heros lamenting that all those heroes and not one in Chicago.

[Hermit]

I remember a few comics with Thor living in Chicago, but I believe it was very brief.

Sometimes I think Marvel really misses out in not taking advantage of a few more cities outside of the big apple.

[Lord Liaden]

Originally posted by Hermit
I remember a few comics with Thor living in Chicago, but I believe it was very brief.

Sometimes I think Marvel really misses out in not taking advantage of a few more cities outside of the big apple.

I suppose it might still be an issue of reference availability: since the Marvel editorial offices have always been in New York, any detail of real continuity that you want to use, you can verify with little more than looking out the window. Admittedly, that's less of a factor nowadays with the Internet, but you'd still have to do more research.

You can always set a book in another city if one of its principle creators is based in or intimately familiar with that city, but what happens when that creator leaves the book?

[Hermit]

True, but sometimes fan support is amazing, and as you said, the internet is exceptional. If a comic editor were to tell the fans of the super hero who's mag he was running "We could use some information on...(fill in city)" I bet he'd get a response... enough responses to cut his work lord down a lot.

I guess we need bigger comic book companies in other parts of the country.

:)

[wcw43921]

Another thing to to consider are the suburbs and smaller cities close to the bigger city. St. Louis, for example, has not only the suburbs of Bridgeton, St. Charles, Maryland Heights, etc. but across the Mississippi, the cities of East St. Louis, Cahokia, Granite City, and others--including Edwardsville, which has a campus for Southern Illinois University.

The same for New York--in addition to the five boroughs you have nearby Newark, Jersey City, and Bayonne to the west, and Mt. Vernon and New Rochelle to the northeast. Across the Delaware from Philadelphia is Camden, NJ, and up the river is Trenton, the state capital.

Just looking at any metropolitan area map will give you an idea of the possibilities for superhero challenges--and the opportunities for supervillains. Better make sure your heroes have plenty of movement capabilities.

[bubba smith]

how about a super in orlando fla?[i live in nearby titusville]

[BNakagawa]

There are any number of cities in Iraq that desperately need a superhero. Unfortunately if there was a SuperSunni, he'd probably spend all his time battling Super Shiite.

sigh.

[gmurie]

Madison, WI has a MASSIVE university, a large research hospital, biotech all over the place, and is generally a nice place to live while being relatively close to Milwaukee and Chicago. I could easily envision UW-Madison as a location for a College of Superhuman Research. For the VERY fast superhero it's relatively close to Minneapolis/St. Paul.

[Mindscape]

How about Mephis or Nashville. Never see any teams based in Tennessee, course the most important thing we have is the country music capital of the world so that might have something to do with it.

[GloryFox]

posted by BNakagawa
There are any number of cities in Iraq that desperately need a superhero. Unfortunately if there was a SuperSunni, he'd probably spend all his time battling Super Shiite.

sigh.

Funny you say this. For Halloween last year some kids at my sons school showed up for super HERO dress up day dressed as suicide bombers. When the teacher asked about it the kids said in the Middle east nations "suicide bombers" are HERO's. Funny how some super villains can be some people super HERO's and shows how screwed up the value of life is over there.


You know San Francisco needs HERO's badly, but the City Council Government would just outlaw them.

[assault]

How about Mephis or Nashville. Never see any teams based in Tennessee, course the most important thing we have is the country music capital of the world so that might have something to do with it.

So the question is not whether you would be attacked by supervillains, but when.

Such attacks would be quite common too. After all, we know how many aliens visit Graceland every year.

Fighting Space-Elvises would be a full time occupation.

[Corven_Ren]

how about a super in orlando fla?[i live in nearby titusville]

Dude I used to live in Titusville. My old GM and some friends ran supers who had a base undernasth the wild game presevere out near Cape Canaveral.

[AnotherSkip]

As for Texas... well, I'd ask a Texan, but going by some guess work and your own theories...

Texas is a gateway between the United States in Mexico. The fact that some of the passage might be illegal (unlawful immigration, drugs, whatever) would only enhance villain hero interaction, akin to Miami for Florida.

Texas is still rich in oil/mineral wealth...

as for the supernatural side of things... I don't know the Amerind tribes of Old Texas well enough to say, but I think there would be potiential for shamanistic sort of mysticism. On the flip side, the monestaries etc established before Texas gained its indepence could be used by a clever GM ... perhaps there were Infernal forces that needed to be fought.. and might yet rise again.

For some specific cities...
Dallas has become one of the Southwest's leading business and cultural centers. The city houses the main offices of major Oil companies. I believe it's one of the nation's main fashion centers, and been involved in the production of comercials and short films. Ft. Worth, nearby, is less fashionable and sophisticated perhaps, but has things like a Muesuem Complex within a four square block area.
(Besides, Six Flags Over Texas is pretty close, and Amusement park superbattles can be a hoot)

Houston is not only extremely populated, it is intricately tied to the space program. How's that for 'Tech'? :) Houston, as of 1996, was ranked 1st in the nation when it comes to manufacturing and distrubution of Petrolium equipment. It is a port city. The Texas Medical Center, near downtown, is a world renowned medical facility.

San Antonio, home of the Alamo, is the third largest city in Texas, and while it may not have some of the same super draws as Dallas/Ft. Worth or Houston, it does have history.

Really, natives of said state could tell you more.

Over all, I think Texas meets all your criteria... the only down side is it doesn't have as glamourous as rep as L.A., NYC or San Fran... but any Super Villain doing his homework would see it as a choice plum waiting to be plucked.

I like the sports analogy btw, and have had similar thoughts myself. Then again, the Texans I've met are almost obnoxiously (Sorry guys) into Sports teams. I imagine they'd embrace super hero teams with equal fervor.

Not obnoxiously in to sports teams says the texan who built such wonders a Dallasite and a few others. Now then....
DFW area: lots of museums, and universities and actually they train alot of the medical staff for the rest of the country, you want avant guard medical stuff go to Dallas. Six Flags over Arlington is practically between the two and With DFW Airport you have a major airline hub that can bring in the visiting Eurotrash Villians :)
Also this was where the mob lived in the 70's (especially jewish ones) so there could be a second generation effect going on there.

I35 goes though DFW and that is the major drug trade route up from Mexico which ends in Oklahoma City and gets spread out from there (according to my gang bustin cop buddy out there). so OKC could be a draw for anti Drug heroes.

uranium mines are in Texas, Nuff said on the weird background there.

Denver Has a Huge impact on the financial world because of in part the Denver Mint as well as a fairly large finanical district (according to my wife the banker of 10 years). It isn't too far away from the now abandoned NORAD (okies so not that important) And DIA has the Eurotrash draw :) however it is a gateway city to the gambling casinos in Black Hawk that while not the size of say Vegas, definately somewhere for the mid grade of Super villians of say the Spidey/batman Caliber/power to operate.

Word has it that new mobsters are hanging out in Trinidad of all places which was once a big place to go to get a sex change operation done. And that could be a cover for illegal super surgeries...

Why do i know all of this? cuz i have lived in both places AND set 5 campaigns in Dallas and 3 In Denver as well as both of the comic strips for my daughters (one in Dallas, one in Denver).

Oh yeah in response to the Name a hero In Chicago from Marvel?
the Great Lakes Avengers (appearing in some issues of various Avengers books Hawkeye found them and dealt with them for a while) Got 5 Answers to THAT question and a bonus cuz it is a team (Flatman, if you must have one name).

however Dallas definately needs more Supers in Marvel after all the Fall of the Mutants occured there and no one has gone back to close the gate door on the Adversary yet....

[AnotherSkip]

Well, remember what I said in a previous post about counterforces. The question is whether there's enough loot in the city to support ~279 supervillains (assuming a 50/50 split and that's actually conservative). Most likely there are going to be wars of sort weeding out the weaker supervillains.

I'd use 558x<average point base for supervillain> as the base character point 'pool' for the superhero population of the city, and then I'd divide it by the hard cap of supers per capita period to give the mean point base for characters in the city. I'm not sure what power curve scale I'd draw around it.

What that means is that past a certain point, percentage boosts do not increase the numbers of supers in a city, they just increase the average power level of the supers in the city.

Actually there's some feedback effect because the more powerful the villain, the more greater the chunk of the city they're going to want to themselves. A supervillain X times as powerful as the average is going to want X times the take of an average supervillain.

It's really even more complicated when you factor in minions and supervillain teams. But the short of it is that there might well be fewer superheroes than you might expect on average in New York City but when you look at the gross power level, it's where its predicted by your formulae.


Actually it should run about 10-to-1 on Villians to Heroes ratio most of your comic book heroes run at that level.

[gmurie]

Madison, WI has a MASSIVE university, a large research hospital, biotech all over the place, and is generally a nice place to live while being relatively close to Milwaukee and Chicago. I could easily envision UW-Madison as a location for a College of Superhuman Research. For the VERY fast superhero it's relatively close to Minneapolis/St. Paul.

Oh right, I forgot about the Badger (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Badger_%28comics%29), but that's out of print a long time now.

[bubba smith]

Dude I used to live in Titusville. My old GM and some friends ran supers who had a base undernasth the wild game presevere out near Cape Canaveral.
i'm new to these boards may i ask who they were?