Foci

[Colossus]

Can an OAF not in use can become an IIF for free when not in use? I say yes. If my pistol is an OAF, I can hid it in my coat.

Suppose you have a multi-power where each slot is an OAF. Can the whole MP be purchased as an OAF? I say yes. Example: Say I’ve got a PC who uses a brace of 4 specialized pistols. They are purchaced as a 60 multi-Power with each gun being a 60 fixed slot. Technically each gun is an OAF, but taking one gun away still leaves the PC three. I’d allow it because I think it is balanced, otherwise the PC is spending a huge amount of points on a series of foci. Perhaps this should be a –3/4 rather than a – 1 limitation, what do you thing?

[zornwil]

As to the OAF => IIF, within reason, yes, and concealing a weapon such as a gun is a good example. Mainly the "OA" ought to be true in combat in my opinion. However, as with any Focus, it ought not be license to stretch to get around the lmitation, so there ought to be plenty of times it wouldn't be on the person (such as showering,etc.).

As to the MP, I'm pretty sure you can set the OAF on the MP cost and inherit the cost immediately to all slots, though I don't have the rulebook handy. I believe it's GM permission, though.

[JmOz]

To be super technical if you want (and the gm allows & YOU HAVE A FREAKING GOOD REASON) you could define the gun not in use as NO LIMIT. An example is Robocop from the movies, when his gun is not in use it is in an internal holster that no one can get to. Note that if he looses the gun the holster is empty and he is not able to have another one, this is an importent point, a mage might be able to summon Nightfang a enchanted sword to fight with, however if he looses it he can't summon it back to him (Assuming it is bought OAF). However most foci become OIF or IIF, it's all about the F/X baby

Okay second one, to my understanding the correct way to build what you want is to buy the MP as an OIF, each slot as OAF. If you take OAF on the MP as a whole it would represent having a gun like Judge Dredd that can shoot various different types of ammo, etc... You loose it you loose the whole thing however

[JmOz]

BTW: to expand, by definition a foci suffers the limitation when the power is in use. So for an attack power it is in combat, etc...

[Warp9]

Can an OAF not in use can become an IIF for free when not in use? I say yes. If my pistol is an OAF, I can hid it in my coat.

Suppose you have a multi-power where each slot is an OAF. Can the whole MP be purchased as an OAF? I say yes. Example: Say I’ve got a PC who uses a brace of 4 specialized pistols. They are purchaced as a 60 multi-Power with each gun being a 60 fixed slot. Technically each gun is an OAF, but taking one gun away still leaves the PC three. I’d allow it because I think it is balanced, otherwise the PC is spending a huge amount of points on a series of foci. Perhaps this should be a –3/4 rather than a – 1 limitation, what do you thing?




Okay second one, to my understanding the correct way to build what you want is to buy the MP as an OIF, each slot as OAF. If you take OAF on the MP as a whole it would represent having a gun like Judge Dredd that can shoot various different types of ammo, etc... You loose it you loose the whole thing however

JmOz is correct.

The answer to your question is covered in the main book. Look at the section under "Power Modifiers on Multipowers," and specifically the sub-heading "Varying Limitations."

[JeffreyWKramer]

JmOz is correct.

The answer to your question is covered in the main book. Look at the section under "Power Modifiers on Multipowers," and specifically the sub-heading "Varying Limitations."


There is one exception to this rule, however. The +5 rule for duplicate equipment allows a character to purchase duplicates of equipment, +5 for the first duplicate, +5 to have two more (ie, 10 pts = 4 of the Focus). If you did this with a Multipower, you could essentially have two identical Multipowers, each based in an OAF.

Some GMs dislike this rule, however, and I think a GM is certainly within his or her rights to drop the value of the Limitation to OIF (but still have each individual item behave as an OAF, if that is the case in the first place), particularly when it gets to the character having several of the same focus.

A similar concept is when a character has charges of something, each in their own Focus. For example, imagine someone with 6 throwing knives, which can be used in either HTH or thrown (and then be recoverable charges). While each individual knife behaves as an OAF while being used (it can be grabbed, entangle-restrained, etc.) , I would not give this construct an OAF Limitation unless it was posible for all the knives to be taken away by a single Grab (a loose bandollier of knives, perhaps).

[Warp9]

There is one exception to this rule, however. The +5 rule for duplicate equipment allows a character to purchase duplicates of equipment, +5 for the first duplicate, +5 to have two more (ie, 10 pts = 4 of the Focus). If you did this with a Multipower, you could essentially have two identical Multipowers, each based in an OAF.

You may be correct here. But I am not familiar with the rule.

I understand that you could X2 per 5 points with followers and stuff like that, but I never knew that it applied to personal powers (even personal powers with a "focus" limitation).

Could you give me a specific cite from 5th Main Rule Book?

[JmOz]

You may be correct here. But I am not familiar with the rule.

I understand that you could X2 per 5 points with followers and stuff like that, but I never knew that it applied to personal powers (even personal powers with a "focus" limitation).

Could you give me a specific cite from 5th Main Rule Book?

It's there, but it is very open to abuse, as such MANY GM's disallow it (Or else the Avengers all start using IM armor and Thor's hammer, and Cap's shield, and Hawkeye's bow and quiver, each one only had to pay an extra 10 points, and loan them out...)

[JeffreyWKramer]

You may be correct here. But I am not familiar with the rule.

I understand that you could X2 per 5 points with followers and stuff like that, but I never knew that it applied to personal powers (even personal powers with a "focus" limitation).

Could you give me a specific cite from 5th Main Rule Book?

I'm at work, so I can't site page #s, but it is toward the back, in the discussion of equipment.

[JeffreyWKramer]

It's there, but it is very open to abuse, as such MANY GM's disallow it (Or else the Avengers all start using IM armor and Thor's hammer, and Cap's shield, and Hawkeye's bow and quiver, each one only had to pay an extra 10 points, and loan them out...)

Well, none of the other Avengers except maybe Cap could even *lift* Thor's hammer, so I'm not worried there. Few (if any, barring Cap) of the non-superhuman ones can even draw Hawkeye's bow, and of those who can, none of them are going to hit with a damn with it. Iron Man's armor would be useful to most, but then, IM is one of those guys probably built more than OIHID than Focus, anyhow, so it wouldn't apply. :)

Me personally, I don't have a problem with characters having extras immediately on hand for things small enough to easily carry a couple (guns or knives or such), and assuming the item in question is not unique (Mjolnir is pretty unique, though there are Thunderstrike's weapon and Beta Ray Bill's). Extra set of armor are back at the HQ or whatever, though.

[JeffreyWKramer]

Could you give me a specific cite from 5th Main Rule Book?

Also, this isn't main-rule book, but there are character references in the official books who have foci bought this way. Nightwind's pistols leap to mind, and I think (but am not certain) Shugoshin purchased his swords that way.

On the other hand, there are examples of characters in the books - Dr. Destroyer's mechas (Black Talon, or whatever those are called) have two identical weapons arrays, each purchased full value.

[Warp9]

I'm at work, so I can't site page #s, but it is toward the back, in the discussion of equipment.
OK, I found it.

[Warp9]

BTW, thanks for the info :)

[SleepyDrug]

Well, none of the other Avengers except maybe Cap could even *lift* Thor's hammer, so I'm not worried there. Few (if any, barring Cap) of the non-superhuman ones can even draw Hawkeye's bow, and of those who can, none of them are going to hit with a damn with it. Iron Man's armor would be useful to most, but then, IM is one of those guys probably built more than OIHID than Focus, anyhow, so it wouldn't apply. :)

Me personally, I don't have a problem with characters having extras immediately on hand for things small enough to easily carry a couple (guns or knives or such), and assuming the item in question is not unique (Mjolnir is pretty unique, though there are Thunderstrike's weapon and Beta Ray Bill's). Extra set of armor are back at the HQ or whatever, though.

Thor's hammer is not universal; yet Cap, Beta Ray, and Thunderstrike all could use it.

We've seen Quicksilver use Hawkeye's bow.

At least 8 people have used Iron Man's armor over time besides tony. Really early on it was nearly stolen by spies who made use of parts.

Numerous people have used Cap's shield defensively.

[CrosshairCollie]

As far as the possible abuses of the multiple foci for +5 points thing, that's one of those deals that gets filed under 'things GMs should watch for'. It would be nice to hope that Foci that are unique, like specialized weapons or armor like these, would be things that no player would buy multiples of and loan out, and that your players would be genre-conscious enough not to do so. It's one of those 'spirit of the rules' things. Now, scooping up said focus for your use if the person who it belongs to is hopelessly unconscious, that I don't have a problem with.

On the other hand, one character having several duplicate foci is different. Many pistol-packers use double-pistol style, for instance, and two-sword style is almost as popular. Nightwing uses double escrima sticks, as does (did?) Night Thrasher. Shatterstar used two swords. Cable's sidekick Domino often used two guns at once, et cetera. Cable, himself, had a good half-dozen backup guns on his person at any time.

[JmOz]

Another reason I consider this rule open for abuse:

Soul sword:

45 2d6 HKA, NND, Does Body, OAF

05 x2Soul swords
---50

4d6 HKA NND Does body=50?

[CrosshairCollie]

Another reason I consider this rule open for abuse:

Soul sword:

45 2d6 HKA, NND, Does Body, OAF

05 x2Soul swords
---50

4d6 HKA NND Does body=50?

The 2x Equipment rule isn't the problem. It's allowing an NND Does Body. Besides, he still has to hit with both attacks to deal that much damage.

[Gary]

Another reason I consider this rule open for abuse:

Soul sword:

45 2d6 HKA, NND, Does Body, OAF

05 x2Soul swords
---50

4d6 HKA NND Does body=50?


The reason I consider this rule open for abuse is:

53 Multipower 80 pt reserve OIF
5 Attack power
5 Defense power
5 Movement power
5 Utility power

10 X4 Multipowers

Now you keep one focus always in attack, one always in defense, one always in movement, and one always in the utility power.

If you're worried about one or more of them being damaged, you can spend +5 pts to have 4 spares. Or simply declare that all the foci are unbreakable.

[Hugh Neilson]

If you're worried about one or more of them being damaged, you can spend +5 pts to have 4 spares. Or simply declare that all the foci are unbreakable.

Go with the spares - that way, stealing them isn't effective either, and you've bought off much of the Focus disadvantage for only 5 points, in addition to buying off the Multipower drawbacks for 10 points. And if you aren't moving or attacking, getting your force field four times seems a pretty fair exchange, doesn't it?

I like +5 for spares that you can sub in if the "primary" is broken/disabled. I don't like +5 to double your access to the powers when a non-focus character can't do the sime thing.

The idea that Centipedeman can buy a 12d6 EB, OAF BlasterGun (30 points), then pay 30 points for 64 such pistols, and fire them all as an MPA (he walks on the other 36 limbs, that's why :) ) doesn't bother me as much as the fact that he would have to pay 1,920 points (32 times as much) to get the same effect if he had an EB 3x END, Restrainable instead. Focus is intended to be a limitation, not an opening to vastly discounted additional firepower.

[zornwil]

I think the +5 thing has to be seen solely in the context of a heroic-level game and/or simulation of stuff where multiplicity is not much of a bonus and doesn't offset for foci, which is primarily in a base or vehicle setting. That rule could stand a little more text but then again I do think this is one area GMs understand very quickly and it's not presented in the context of powers (I don't think, or, if it is, I'm fairly sure it's relegated to a small bit). I'm less concerned about this than more insidious or less obvious potential abuse areas.

[Gary]

Go with the spares - that way, stealing them isn't effective either, and you've bought off much of the Focus disadvantage for only 5 points, in addition to buying off the Multipower drawbacks for 10 points. And if you aren't moving or attacking, getting your force field four times seems a pretty fair exchange, doesn't it?

I like +5 for spares that you can sub in if the "primary" is broken/disabled. I don't like +5 to double your access to the powers when a non-focus character can't do the sime thing.

The idea that Centipedeman can buy a 12d6 EB, OAF BlasterGun (30 points), then pay 30 points for 64 such pistols, and fire them all as an MPA (he walks on the other 36 limbs, that's why :) ) doesn't bother me as much as the fact that he would have to pay 1,920 points (32 times as much) to get the same effect if he had an EB 3x END, Restrainable instead. Focus is intended to be a limitation, not an opening to vastly discounted additional firepower.

How about paying the +5 pts for spares, AND declaring all the foci to be unbreakable? :D

[JeffreyWKramer]

How about paying the +5 pts for spares, AND declaring all the foci to be unbreakable? :D

I'd say the decision as to whether or not a focus is unbreakable should be up to the GM, and that it is going to be extremely rare that unbreakable foci will exist in duplicate forms. There aren't multiple copies of Excalibur, Captain America's shield and Mjolnir out there (though in Mjolnir's case, the Marvel Universe contains a handfull of weapons of essentially equal power - but not complete duplicates in every way). There's one sword more or less equal to Stormblade (I can't recall the name right now), but it has its own identity and is thus not a true duplicate either (so if someone wanted both, they'd have to pay the points for both).

[Hugh Neilson]

How about paying the +5 pts for spares, AND declaring all the foci to be unbreakable? :D

I agree - if you're gonna do it, do it RIGHT! There's no point being just a little greedy, now is there?

[zornwil]

I agree - if you're gonna do it, do it RIGHT! There's no point being just a little greedy, now is there?
Don't forget to assign them to a completely loyal follower whom you Summon - then you get them at 1/5 cost, too... (enough to afford UBO if your GM is being a real jerkwad and not allowing the foci to be lent out!)

[Hugh Neilson]

Don't forget to assign them to a completely loyal follower whom you Summon - then you get them at 1/5 cost, too... (enough to afford UBO if your GM is being a real jerkwad and not allowing the foci to be lent out!)

What about having them belong to someone Summoned by a completely loyal follower, so we get down to 1/25 at the bottom of the chain (unless I make the follower a part of my base...) :)

We should be able to get the cost down below 0.5 points so rounding works in our favur eventually.

[zornwil]

What about having them belong to someone Summoned by a completely loyal follower, so we get down to 1/25 at the bottom of the chain (unless I make the follower a part of my base...) :)

We should be able to get the cost down below 0.5 points so rounding works in our favur eventually.
Sounds great! And we could have the Follower actually be multiple Followers with multiple Foci and characteristics all set to 0, it should be easy to outfit entire civilian populations!

Ooh, wait, can we Megascale the Followers? :D