question about normal damage

[steph]

when i make a normal attack damage (a punch and we use the hit location table) for the stun it ok i subtract the pd and rpd and multiplied the score with the section...but for the body damage if the target have a armor ( cuir bouillie) 3rpd.....let se i roll 6 body damage i subtract just the rpd or the pd also
stef the french canadian
excuse my english again

[Gunrunner]

Hello Steph :D

I believe that you subtract the person's rPD and PD from the body damage done. THEN you would use any BODY multipiers from the hit location table. If you want to check it out, the answer to your question is also on page 273 of the Fifth edition Hero book.

[joen00b]

Here is the way it should work:

A normal attack (non-killing, non-AVLD, non-penetrating, etc, etc) would only use the PD of the target against the damage. Damage would be multiplied after the attack. rPD has nothing to do with Normal attacks, it is a resistant defense against Killing Attacks anf the like, it does not add to the defense at all, only enhances it.

So, a normal person with a PD of 3 and the attack is to a X2 area and does 2 body. No body gets through. If the attack did 4 body, it would be 2 body total damage received ((4-3)*2=total damage).

I hope that clears it up.

[steph]

what you said to me it :i punch a guy with a metal helmet( head,7rpd) and a 5pd and i substract only 5 before i multiplied by 5 by damage and i dont count the 7 rpd or the pd of this guy is 12 for the head......
stef the french canadian
excuse my english

[PoorWandering 1]

odd i thought pd 5 with 7 points of rpd armor would have 12 pd vs normal attacks. Then whatever got through would get the hit location effects. Have i been doing this wrong all these years?

[Old Man]

Here is the way it should work:

A normal attack (non-killing, non-AVLD, non-penetrating, etc, etc) would only use the PD of the target against the damage. Damage would be multiplied after the attack. rPD has nothing to do with Normal attacks, it is a resistant defense against Killing Attacks anf the like, it does not add to the defense at all, only enhances it.

So, a normal person with a PD of 3 and the attack is to a X2 area and does 2 body. No body gets through. If the attack did 4 body, it would be 2 body total damage received ((4-3)*2=total damage).

I hope that clears it up.

I think joen00b isn't understanding your question.

You subtract your armor (rPD) PLUS your natural PD from Normal Damage attacks.

You subtract only your armor (rPD) from BODY damage from Killing Attacks.

You subtract your armor (rPD) PLUS your natural PD from STUN damage from Killing Attacks.

.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Shadowpup has it correctly.

Only Resistant Defenses protect from the body damage of killing attacks.

Both Resistant and Normal Defenses protect from the Body damage of Normal attacks.

Both Resistant and Normal Defenses apply to the Stun damage of both Normal and Killing attacks. Exception!: If a character has no resistant defenses then he cannot apply his normal defenses against the Stun damage of killing attacks. Many ignore this particular rule because it does tend to make killing attacks more powerful than they already are.

See page 273 in the 5E rulesbook. Its all explained in great detail there.

[CourtFool]

I think I need a chart. It's just so confusing.

[joen00b]

I think joen00b isn't understanding your question.

You subtract your armor (rPD) PLUS your natural PD from Normal Damage attacks.

You subtract only your armor (rPD) from BODY damage from Killing Attacks.

You subtract your armor (rPD) PLUS your natural PD from STUN damage from Killing Attacks.

.

Yes, SP, I totally misunderstood the question. I was thinking rPD, as in innate rPD to accent the natural PD of the person, not the armor.

DOH!

[steph]

it not you joen00b it my english
stef the french canadian

[joen00b]

Actually, it wasn't your english, I was thinking in Champions terms, not Fantasy Hero terms. Trust me, everyone else understood the question, I totally missed it.

You're english really isn't that bad, much more understandable than many folks I works with.

[Midhir]

For NORMAL damage isn't the Hit Location Modifier (NSTUN) applied before you subtract any defenses?

[garadan]

For normal damage, the Location X is applied before defence. Currently playing a Monk, with the added disadvantage of not being able to use weapons with Martial Arts big factor for me.

G

[mudpyr8]

The combat summary covers this on the first page: http://www.herogames.com/FreeStuff/freedocs/Two-Page%20Combat%20Summary.pdf

KILLING DAMAGE
1. Apply STUN multiplier to BODY damage rolled. This multiplier is either 1d6-1 OR determined by hitlocation.
2. Subtract all resistant DEF from the BODY damage rolled. The result is the amount of BODY taken.
3. If the target has resistant DEF, subtract all resistant and non-resistant DEF from the STUN caused. The result is the amount of STUN taken. NOTE: If the target has no resistant DEF, he takes full STUN... his non-resistant DEF is ignored.

NORMAL DAMAGE
1. Apply NSTUN muliplier based on hit location to the STUN rolled. If not using hit locations, no multiplier is necessary.
2. Subtract all resistant and non-resistant DEF from the BODY damage rolled. The result is the amount of BODY taken.
3. Subtract all resistant and non-resistant DEF from the STUN caused. The result is the amount of STUN taken.

EXAMPLE 1
Target is hit in the head with a 1d6 killing attack vs PD, rolling 4 for damage. Target has no resistant PD on his head but has 6 non-resistant PD. Target takes 20 STUN (hit location STUNx is 5) and 8 BODY (hit location BODYx is 2).

EXAMPLE 2
Target puts on a helmet with rPD of 3 and is hit by the same attack. Target takes 11 STUN (4 x 5 (hit location) - 3 rPD - 6 PD) and 2 BODY ((4 - 3 rPD) x 2 for hit location).

EXAMPLE 3
Target is hit in the head with a 3d6 normal damage club after removing the helmet in triumph, rolling 10 STUN 3 BODY for damage. He has no rPD right now, but that's okay. Target takes 14 STUN (10 x 2 (hit location) - 6 PD) and 0 BODY ((3 - 6 PD) x 2 for hit location).

EXAMPLE 4
Target, having taken 14 STUN, which is greater than his 10 CON, is now stunned. His assailant hits him in the head again.Since he is stunned, he takes x2 STUN. The second blow is the same: 10 STUN 3 BODY. Now Target takes 34 STUN (10 x 2 (location) x 2 (stunned) - 6 PD) and 0 BODY ((3 - 6 PD) x 2 for hit location). Ouch! If he wasn't unconcious before, he should be now.

So, wear your helmet. It keeps you safe. A couple of easy rules to remember:

1. STUN multipliers before defenses, BODY multipliers after.
2. Killing BODY is only stopped by resistant defenses.
3. Killing STUN is stopped by all defenses unless the target has no resistant defense.
4. Normal damage (BODY and STUN) is stopped by all defenses.

[Vondy]

Here:

Calculating Body Damage From Killing Attacks:

Body Damage - rPD = Body Taken

Calculating Body Damage From Normal Attacks:

Body Damage - (rPD + PD) = Body Taken

Calculating Stun Damage From Killing Attacks:

Stun Damage - (rPD + PD) = Stun Taken

Calculating Stun Damage From Normal Attacks:

Stun Damage - (rPD + PD) = Stun Taken

You will note the last two are the same....

[mudpyr8]

With the caveat that STUN vs. Killing is
STUN - (0) if rPD = 0

So they aren't quite the same.

[CrosshairCollie]

For normal damage, the Location X is applied before defence. Currently playing a Monk, with the added disadvantage of not being able to use weapons with Martial Arts big factor for me.

G

Odd ... I had a martial artist villain in one old FH game, and I felt he was more effective with his Normal damage than with Killing.

[Markdoc]

If most people have some resistant defence - as they do in most fantasy games, then they get to add their PD against Stun Damage, so there's not that big a difference between normal and killing damage.

I had a martial artist type PC in my last fantasy game and he was extremely effective at putting down foes (more so than anyone except the player who spent almost all her points on sword combat abilities). But he didn't kill as many people: he simply generated more Stun on average than the sword guys, so he tended to stun and then put down his opponents.

And since he was a "ghost-queller" he was more effective than most of the party against undead types too....

cheers, Mark

[Rapier]

Here is the way it should work:

A normal attack (non-killing, non-AVLD, non-penetrating, etc, etc) would only use the PD of the target against the damage. Damage would be multiplied after the attack. rPD has nothing to do with Normal attacks, it is a resistant defense against Killing Attacks anf the like, it does not add to the defense at all, only enhances it.
Nonono! Resistant defense most certainly do protect against normal attacks. I think you are getting confused because of the way Killing Attacks handle damage. Oh wait. Looking down, I see this has been handled.

Ta!