Naked Advantage Cheese Factor

[Myrmidon]

Okay I just wanted to get the intial reactions on cheesy this naked advantage is.

Base Power is: 60 Telekinesis (40 Strength)

Naked Advantage: 30 Variable Advantage (+1; Up to +1/2 Worth of Advantages); Requires a Skill Roll (Power Skill TK based on Int) -1/2, Requires Concentration Throughout (-1/2; 1/2 DCV)

Cheers, David

[Vondy]

I don't see it as problematic.

[DRThrush]

Why was this done as a naked advantage?

Usually naked is used to enhance the use of a wider group of "powers". The example given in 5th edition is buying a naked advantage to enhance a characters ability with all firearms by adding the Autofire advantage to any gun he picks up.

As written, that naked advantage would be used on 1 power, and the only reason I could see it being written that way is to avoid an Active Point cap set by the GM. That would be cheese as it's Limburger smelliest; laughed at, frowned upon, and disallowed in my game.

Just my opinion, based on what I understand of the situation. :p

Warm regards,
Dave

[Andrew Cermak]

Why was this done as a naked advantage?


Because the Advantage has a Limitation. Naked Advantages are considered Powers and can be modified. Regular Advantages can't be modified.

EDIT: I also don't see a problem with the power construct, but as a GM I would take the two in tandem when looking at Active Point limits.

[JeffreyWKramer]

Why was this done as a naked advantage?

Usually naked is used to enhance the use of a wider group of "powers". The example given in 5th edition is buying a naked advantage to enhance a characters ability with all firearms by adding the Autofire advantage to any gun he picks up.

As written, that naked advantage would be used on 1 power, and the only reason I could see it being written that way is to avoid an Active Point cap set by the GM. That would be cheese as it's Limburger smelliest; laughed at, frowned upon, and disallowed in my game.

Just my opinion, based on what I understand of the situation. :p

Warm regards,
Dave

You might check the various examples of Naked Advantage in the books. If you did, you'd see Naked Advantage is used for lots of different things, and some not that different than this case.

Also, as Andrew noted, it's about the only way to do a Limited Advantage.

I don't personally see a problem with this particular construct. It could be powerful, as possible +1/2 Advantages include things like Area 1 Hex and Armor Piercing, but isn't likely to be game-breaking.

[Metaphysician]

In addition, it allows for the character to use his Telekinesis *without* using the advantages.

As for active point limits, *technically*, this hits 120 AP, but given that it has fairly hefty limitations on it, I don't see any reason not to allow it if the AP cap is ~90.

[ghost-angel]

I agree, you'd have to count both for AP Limits, if any, for the game.

But as a construct, it's not cheese really. It's a way of saying "I have TK, but if I work at it I have TK With Stuff"

[Killer Shrike]

It isnt cheesy at all. The character is paying a premium (via extra END cost) for greater flexibility in the use of their Powers. Its an excellent way for the TK based character to differentiate themselves from other TK based characters. It says (assuming the base TK doesnt require a SR) brute force I can pull off no problem, and with a little finesse (SR), concentration (obvious), and effort (extra END) I can add a little English to it too.

Works for me.

[Vondy]

Why was this done as a naked advantage?


I can think of a simple reason: he can use the power normally without concentrating or making a skill roll, but if he wants to modify the power in any way (the gooey goodness of the variable advantage) he has to make a skill roll and concentrate. Its logical and an easy construct. I have a pretty accute cheese sense and this didn't set it off.

[DRThrush]

Ah, good point! If that's the case then I agree that it isn't cheese. :)

-Dave

[kloster]

Okay I just wanted to get the intial reactions on cheesy this naked advantage is.

Base Power is: 60 Telekinesis (40 Strength)

Naked Advantage: 30 Variable Advantage (+1; Up to +1/2 Worth of Advantages); Requires a Skill Roll (Power Skill TK based on Int) -1/2, Requires Concentration Throughout (-1/2; 1/2 DCV)

Cheers, David

Not cheesy at all, if you take in account the AP at 90 AP.
The idea is a very good one, to simulate either an easy, basic TK, or a more difficult one that can do marvels.

Bye,

Kloster

[Blue Jogger]

Here's a nice cheesy one with extra sour cream for comparison.

Naked Advantage: 0 END on any magic spell (up to 80 active points), 40 Active points, 1 Fuel Charge lasts 5 minutes (-1, IIRC), IIF - Powerstone (-1/4)

Ok, for 16 real points, all spells (up to 80 active points) cost no END for up to 25 turns worth of time or 25*(number of phases/turn) castings. The fuel charge is what makes it super cheesy else I would had to buy Continuous and Reduced END, but instead I get a -1 out of the deal (maybe it's 3/4). Realize it only modifies one spell at a time, so might need to spend 5 points and get a spare.

:jawdrop:

[OddHat]

I just don't allow Fuel charges for most constructs. It's a meaningless limit too often. Also, were I your GM, I'd rule that the "1 charge" means that the reduced END can only be applied to 1 spell per day, but then I'm just mean. ;)

[JMHammer]

Myrmidon said:

Okay I just wanted to get the intial reactions on cheesy this naked advantage is.

Base Power is: 60 Telekinesis (40 Strength)

Naked Advantage: 30 Variable Advantage (+1; Up to +1/2 Worth of Advantages); Requires a Skill Roll (Power Skill TK based on Int) -1/2, Requires Concentration Throughout (-1/2; 1/2 DCV)

Cheers, David
David, I think this is a great way of representing what you want. To join the nearly-unanimous chorus: No cheese here on this 120 Active Point power.

Metaphysician said:

In addition, it allows for the character to use his Telekinesis *without* using the advantages.
Frankly, if a character has a power with Variable Advantage I allow him to use the power without applying any advantages if he wants to do so, and without paying Endurance for the active points he isn't using. Variable Advantage is pretty expensive for what it lets you do compared to a Variable Power Pool and what it lets you do. I like to give my players good reasons to avoid using VPPs which otherwise start to become very attractive in cases like this.

I'd rather have a player use David's construct than something like this:
76 Variable Power Pool: 76 Real Points
14 Variable Power Pool: 38 Control Cost, Requires a Skill Roll to Change Powers (-1/2), Limited Class of Powers Available (only Telekinesis with any Advantages and Limitations, -1), If any Advantages are applied to Telekinesis the entire power must take Requires Concentration Throughout (-1/2 Limitation on the constructed power) (-1/4 Limitation applied to the VPP Control Cost)
Total Cost: 90

Yeah, yeah, the VPP requires a full phase to apply an Advantage or otherwise change the power, but the -1 for the Limited Class of Powers Available is probably too small. And certainly there are other differences, such as a 76 active point cap on a power from the VPP compared to a 90 active point cap on a power built with David's construct. But the majority of players I know who would want a power like this would look at these two options and take the VPP. Allowing the relatively minor advantage of not having to apply the +1/2 of Advantages when using the power with the Variable Advantage (+1) would push quite a few of them in the other direction.

John H