Freedom City

[Monolith]

Just wanted to drop a note to let fans of the superhero genre know that Freedom City for M&M is out, and it's a pretty darn good book. Someone on the M&M boards said something to the effect that Freedom City has out Astro Citied San Angelo, and I think that is a pretty fair assessment. If anyone liked San Angelo they will probably love Freedom City. The formatting is similar to San Angelo (with NPC blurbs in the book, for example) but takes the comic book feel, especially the Astro City feel, another step or two further.

I have not counted them, but I am guessing the book has around 80 character writeups (heroes and villains), and while the stats are in M&M format the backgrounds are basically in HERO System format. So even if you know nothing about M&M it is very easy to take the material offered and quickly writeup Champions version of the characters. I did not have any problems "converting" Factor Four from the free sample pdf a few months ago, and I do not think I will have any problem doing the same for all the other characters I plan on using from this book as villains.

The book is beautiful, the art is wonderful, the city is interesting. I still prefer Millennium City for my gaming, and Freedom City has not even slightly tempted me to change game systems, but Freedom City is a great book if you are looking for inspirations, and well worth the $21.00 I paid for it. :)

[Monolith]

I forgot to add that the book is full of Easter Eggs. Streets, companies, and people are named after comic book characters. There is even a "Champions" restaurant in the Super Museum. :)

[Hermit]

Originally posted by Monolith
I forgot to add that the book is full of Easter Eggs. Streets, companies, and people are named after comic book characters. There is even a "Champions" restaurant in the Super Museum. :)
*L*
Okay, not sure if that's a tip of the hat to our own beloved Hero game, or Marvel's old group but it's nice nevertheless.

Sadly, I'll have to catch Freedom City on E-Bay or Used if I catch it at all. My cash is going towards Millenium City.

[Monolith]

Originally posted by Hermit
Okay, not sure if that's a tip of the hat to our own beloved Hero game, or Marvel's old group but it's nice nevertheless.
Well, Steve Kenson is the only writer I know who has written for each of the current "Big 3" superhero games, so I'll just take it as he is referencing our beloved Champions. :)


Sadly, I'll have to catch Freedom City on E-Bay or Used if I catch it at all. My cash is going towards Millenium City.
MC is well worth the wait. While MC will not be full color, it's a great book full of fun stuff. I have 6 copies on order for my gaming group as we speak. :)

[Thag13]

Sounds like agreat book, but I must echo Hermits opinion of finding it used or on sale before I can get it.

Just too much Hero Goodies coming out for me to keep up with at my low pay rate.

[Monolith]

Originally posted by Thag13
Just too much Hero Goodies coming out for me to keep up with at my low pay rate.
Support your hobby; get a second job! :)

[Monolith]

There is a 3 page preview pdf available if anyone is interested:

www.greenronin.com/mutants_masterminds/files/FreedomCityPreview.pdf

[Lord Mhoram]

Originally posted by Monolith
Support your hobby; get a second job! :)

I did, working at a game/comic shop, so I get all the nifty stuff at cost. I am the RPG guy at the store, so I do the ordering... Power!!! Mwa ha ha. :-)

Millinium City hit Alliance this morning and I will have it monday. Freedom city hadn't hit thier warehouses yet, so it will be a week or two yet. I do have Roll call and Emergency Responce coming.

Man it is a good time to be into superhero gaming. :-)

[JohnTaber]

Hi Lord M...I second that motion...it is a GREAT time to be superhero gaming...the quality of the books that were released in the last year is just fantastic...

[Hermit]

Originally posted by Monolith
There is a 3 page preview pdf available if anyone is interested:

www.greenronin.com/mutants_masterminds/files/FreedomCityPreview.pdf
Okay, I admit it, I like Seven. I might adapt her to Champions ... man her costume is very much like one of my Players' characters though :)

[Jeff T.]

I'll probably be picking it up next week. It looks awesome from what I hear on the GR boards. I'm especially interested in the Next-Gen group at the Claremont (get it?) Academy. I love the drawing of Bowman.

[Monolith]

Originally posted by Starlord
I'll probably be picking it up next week. It looks awesome from what I hear on the GR boards. I'm especially interested in the Next-Gen group at the Claremont (get it?) Academy. I love the drawing of Bowman.
The art is quite nice. Never let it be said that full-color products are not wonderful. :)

I use a hero group called Gen-Z in New York (because CU states there is a fourth, un-named hero group in New York, so I figured why not a mutant group). They are part of the Charles Zachery Institute. They are more like the X-men than the New Mutants though. Millennium City already has the Ravenswood Academy and its New Mutant-like cadets.

[Tclynch]

Just finished reading it...AWESOME! Lots of good info for any GM to use for a setting. Gotta love that color art!

[TechnoViking]

Originally posted by Hermit
*L*
Okay, not sure if that's a tip of the hat to our own beloved Hero game, or Marvel's old group but it's nice nevertheless.

Sadly, I'll have to catch Freedom City on E-Bay or Used if I catch it at all. My cash is going towards Millenium City.
There is also a group of spies called Danger International, which I do think is a tip of the hat to the Hero System.

Mike

[TechnoViking]

The have a downloadable map of Freedom City at
http://www.greenronin.com/mutants_masterminds/files/FreedomCityMap.pdf

Nice if there was a downloadable map for Millenium City (hint hint ;) ).

Mike

[Static UK]

I've just printed the map out in 'poster' mode spread over four pages. It does look quite good. When MC finally reaches the UK I think I'll have to scan the main map, and print it out over multiple pages to give to the players as a 'fold up guide-map'. I currently use San Angelo as one of the main super hero cities when the players characters are in Amaerica (usually they are in London, UK), so I'll have to see what MC and FC look like when they come out, but I've no doubts that I'll be buying MC.

[Nato]

OK, I have to say that I think the Millennium City map is much better designed than the Freedom City one, even though it's in black & white. Oh, and it would be nice to have the MC map as a PDF.

I also have to say that I think the MC cover is better than FC too. Don't take this as a bash, as I like FC too. But a lot of people keep saying that the art, layout, and design, of Hero stuff isn't as good as MnM or SAS. I think the MC cover speaks for itself. The map is great and the layout works well in MC. The art is probablly the best of any of the Hero products go, as far as quality and consistancy.

[Monolith]

Originally posted by Nato
I also have to say that I think the MC cover is better than FC too. Don't take this as a bash, as I like FC too. But a lot of people keep saying that the art, layout, and design, of Hero stuff isn't as good as MnM or SAS. I think the MC cover speaks for itself. The map is great and the layout works well in MC. The art is probablly the best of any of the Hero products go, as far as quality and consistancy.
I completely agree with you about the covers. Millennium City's cover is many times better than Freedom City's. I will slightly disagree about the MC interior work though. My personal opinion is that there are too many conflicting art styles in Millennium City. I do not get a consistent feel for the characters or the city because of that. One page it is line art, the next it is grayscale, the next it is converted grayscale, the next it is anime style, etc. That just does not work for me. I personally feel that only one or two artists should be assigned per book. That way you get a consistent feel for the product being described.

I have zero intention of ever playing M&M, but I will buy their products just because of the production value. M&M products look and feel like a comic book should. Even if the artwork were not in color its general consistency still gives you a good overall feel for the characters in Freedom City. I do not get that feeling from Millennium City, which is a little disappointing as it was my favorite manuscript I have read to date. I do think that Freedom City could have used more area shots though. Most of the artwork is dedicated to characters.

Hopefully by the time Vibora Bay goes into production DOJ will make some slight alterations in their art policies. Vibora Bay, even more so than Millennium City, has a specific ambiance (Swamp Thing-esque), and I do not think it will carry over well with 10 different art styles within the book. That is not to speak bad about any of the artists. I like all the pictures, but I do not think all the styles mix and match well in one book.

[Nato]

The mixed styles didn't bother me, but I can understand how that might not appeal to everyone. I think that the character portraits are best left to line art, but have no problems with a variety of styles for the content pics. But then again, I pick up books just to look at art and look at different peoples' approaches.

[Nato]

Actually, MnM has a large number of difference artists, with different styles as well. Some are very realistic artist and there are others that have an almost manga aproach. I think it is simply the full-color common denominator that ties them all together and gives them consistency. Maybe if all the artwork in Hero books were either all greyscale or all line-art you'd feel more of a sense of consistency. But like I posted above, I rather like the different approaches of all the artists. It didn't detract from my enjoyment of the setting one bit.

[Jeff T.]

Originally posted by Nato
I also have to say that I think the MC cover is better than FC too. Don't take this as a bash, as I like FC too. But a lot of people keep saying that the art, layout, and design, of Hero stuff isn't as good as MnM or SAS. I think the MC cover speaks for itself. The map is great and the layout works well in MC. The art is probablly the best of any of the Hero products go, as far as quality and consistancy.

We are agreed on the covers. I have mentioned the same about production of the supplements. Basically, I think its a wash between the three. However, the full-color thing (hint, hint...harp,harp...pester, pester) simply puts HERO to shame.

Short review:

Now that I've read most of FC, I think its the best setting book in Supers RPG's to date. It is flat-out perfect for me. True Silver-Agey, four-color comicdom just the way I like it. Its quite obvious Mr. Kenson and I really have similar comic tastes. The cool 'easter eggs' throughout the book were also a great addition, such as the Kirby Art Museum, the Champions Restaurant, and the Claremont Academy.

Absolutely love heroes like the Next-Gen, The Atom Family, Foreshadow, as well as almost all the villains. The Freedom League is a bit TOO JLA/JSA for me, I lean more toward the Avengers-style. They are still great though, particularly Raven (take THAT Nighthawk! :D ) and Dr. Metropolis. Ramon Perez, who apparently did most of the artwork in the book (full color, mind you...pester, hint, harp), is truly top-notch.

Now...I must get to work converting those dozens of FC characters over to HERO System! :)

[James Gillen]

As I said on RPG.net: I picked up Millenium City last Monday and thought it was awesome. I picked up Freedom City on Tuesday, and if I say it blows MC out of the water, THAT's how good Freedom City is.

The comparison isn't entirely fair because the M&M books are full-color hardbacks on high-quality paper; OTOH they also cost at least half again as much as the Hero sourcebooks, so I consider the Hero books to be more value overall.

I also consider MC to be a better presentation of both a real city (based on Detroit) and a city based on what would happen if super-tech were incorporated into everyday life. Nevertheless, FC does a better job of getting that "old" comic feel, especially with the use of familiar seeming archetypes, and place names like Ditko Street. It manages to update the material to the modern day while being totally unironic about it- sort of like the Bruce Timm Batman cartoons.

Plus, nothing says you can't use background source material for your own favorite system (i.e. HERO). :)

[Mutant for Hire]

Millenium City is Bronze Age.

Freedom City is Silver Age.

In my opinion, that's pretty much the core difference between the two of them. Millenium City tries to be more consistant and realistic while Freedom City's doesn't let itself be fettered at all by reality. It doesn't mean that either one is necessarily better, it's a stylistic choice really.

[The Raven]

"My personal opinion is that there are too many conflicting art styles in Millennium City. I do not get a consistent feel for the characters or the city because of that. One page it is line art, the next it is grayscale, the next it is converted grayscale, the next it is anime style, etc. That just does not work for me."

WOW! Is this as close to something negative said about Hero by Monolith? And something concerning the art in the books non-the-less.

[Monolith]

Originally posted by The Raven
WOW! Is this as close to something negative said about Hero by Monolith? And something concerning the art in the books non-the-less.
I say lots of things on these boards about the game I do not always agree with. You must not have been paying attention. Check out my posts in the "Steve is wrong" forum. :)

I enjoy art in books. It is not the main reason I buy the books, but it does give you a feel that the words alone cannot always convey. I just felt that the art for MC was too all over the place. I did not get a consistent feel for the city (each artist drew the city differently) or for the characters (Dr. Silverback, for example, is drawn in many different styles). The fact that in places the same character is drawn differently by different artists just bugged me a little.

MC is still my favorite Champions book so far. I just wish the art had a more unified approach when trying to show us what the city and its citizens were about. I feel that Freedom City did a better job in conveying that, color not withstanding.

[Nato]

Your Dr. Silverback example isn't accurate. Of the four different illustrations (two were repeated) containing our favorite genius gorilla scientist/hero, Chris Stevens drew three and I drew one. Chris' style is the same in each pic, although he was drawn once in battle armor, and twice in lab clothes. I wouldn't say that Dr. Silverback was drawn in many different styles.

Admittedly, my portrayal of the fine doctor is pretty sucky compared to Chris'.

I guess I just don't feel the same way about the rest of your points as you do. Well, other than MC being my favorite Champs book so far too. :)

[Monolith]

Originally posted by Nato
I guess I just don't feel the same way about the rest of your points as you do. Well, other than MC being my favorite Champs book so far too. :)
I understand that, but you are one of the artists, so of course you are not going to agree with me. :)

And as a point of reference, when I say style I am not just discussing the artistic style of a particular artist, but also the texture of the pic. So I am also discussing line art, grayscale, converted grayscale, manga-style, the "Marvel" style, ect. So when I say Dr. Silverback has many different styles, I'm also referring to the fact that he is done in line art, in a broad grayscale, and the main picture which appears to be nearly a pencil grayscale.

[Nato]

That's not neccisarily why I disagree with you Monolith. I've thought that the art was all over the place on other books just the same as you do about this one. I just didn't feel like this one was. That's just my thoughts. I didn't even think that it was that way until it was brought up in this forum. I guess what I mean is I can see why you would feel that way, I just don't feel that way.

I do think you may agree with me that the quality of art, overall, has definitely been increasing with each book (regardless of how you feel about many different styles). Personally, I work on just getting better with each project. Then I see the other artists, feel a tinge of envy, and then work to get better. That's prolly why I like having several artists in a book.

[James Gillen]

Thing is, the M&M core book had a lot more inconsistent artwork IMO. It altered between Ale Garza (whom I don't like) and Ramon Perez (whom I do). Freedom City had a lot more Perez art, and it was of vastly higher quality than the M&M book.

And again, the fact that the M&M books are in color makes a certain difference.

[Steve Kenson]

For folks who might be interested, I've uploaded some Hero System stats that were written for an early (very early) draft of what became Freedom City. You can find out more at:

http://members.aol.com/talonstudio/freedomcity/fchero.html

Enjoy!

[Nato]

Steve, this is just AWESOME. I'm sure a lot of folks here are going to be totally psyched.

[death tribble]

I have both books. Like the colour art in the Freedom City and it does have the Astro City feel.

[Monolith]

Originally posted by Steve Kenson
For folks who might be interested, I've uploaded some Hero System stats that were written for an early (very early) draft of what became Freedom City. You can find out more at:
That is very nice of you Steve! I am sure that Hero fans across the world thank you from the bottom of their hearts!

[Lord Liaden]

This is very generous of you, Mr. Kenson, many thanks! Of course, it may not have occured to you that this will increase the likelihood of HERO gamers buying Freedom City...;)

Certainly seems that the creators of the main superhero games on the market are leading the industry in cross-system pollination.

[Nato]

I plan on using both Millennium City and Freedom City in my campaign world now. Maybe will do the same thing when the DOJ/GOO crossover comes out, since it will have SAS characters statted out in HERO. Sweeeet.

[Lord Liaden]

Steve, would you be willing to pass on the link to your Freedom City HERO System stats to Hero Games's webmaster, Ben Seeman ( benseeman@herogames.com ), or allow one of us to do so? This link might eventually get lost on the discussion boards, but if it was placed with the other official Champions links on the website, more people are likely to see it.

[Steve Kenson]

By all means, feel free to pass the link on to anyone who might be interested.

[Cardinal]

Did anyone happen to download these conversions that Steve posted? If so, would you be willing to email them to me?

The link appears to be dead.

A big ole heaping helping of rep stick for anyone who can help me.

While I'm at it, has anyone done their own conversion of the Freedom City characters? I would like to see how people did them.

Thanks

[Lord Liaden]

You can still download the Freedom City HERO (Fourth Edition) document from the link at the bottom of this webpage (http://web.archive.org/web/20060214012301/http://members.aol.com/talonstudio/freedomcity/fchero.html).

[dressup24h]

I forgot to add that the book is full of Easter Eggs