Adapting D&D Worlds

[Michael Hopcroft]

bear in mind that i loathe the D&D game system. But some of their worlds have been interesting. Also bear in mind that this question has been probably asked bfore. Anyway, what are the best ways to:

1. translate forly D&D-specific world to work in HERO better than they ever did under D&D.

2. Deal with such things as specilized races and "presitge classes" as package deals.

My basic theory is that once I buy a book I can do anything I like with it, even use it a system that is the polar opposite of the one for which it was designed.

[Captain Obvious]

I think I need specifics to understand exactly what you're after. Converting a game world seems fairly straightforward to me.

As far as prestige classes go, I'd just make it a package deal, with the proviso that certain prerequisites need to be met before picking it up.

[Killer Shrike]

I have several docs up for converting from D&D 3e and AD&D at: www.FantasyHERO.com

Personally, I originally developed the initial work on this subject in 95/96 when I transitioned my Greyhawk campaign into the HERO System. I ran GreyHERO campaigns for many years from the original pass, and it spawned a couple of spin off campaigns by other GM's as well locally.

It's very straightforward to do as long as you don't get totally anal about converting things exactly and directly. Just determine your initial campaign rules, point levels, how to handle Magic & Magic Items, reason from effects for individual abilities, and have fun.


On the otherhand if you are determined to make Magic Missile precisely as effective as it is in D&D while still being the same cost as other equivalent Spells, mapping the exact hit die of XYZ creature for ABC supplement, and mirroring the artificial level nonsense of D&D then you'll have a hard time of it. I still occasionally get eMails from people that want to argue exact conversions; pretty much universally none of them actually run games -- too busy trying stat everything just so.

[Killer Shrike]

As far as prestige classes go, I'd just make it a package deal, with the proviso that certain prerequisites need to be met before picking it up.
Eh. I drop the prereqs idea. Its an artificial concept anyway. In the HERO System the cost of the abilities gained in such packages will be sufficient impediment. Any organizational requirements in-game are better handled via roleplaying.

[Captain Obvious]

Well, maybe you're right. I didn't have any specific D&D examples in mind, so much as a basic idea of what a prestige class is, and the idea that has been used several times in Hero of a basic package deal and an advanced package deal that can only be taken after taking the proper basic one.

[Lord Liaden]

Killer Shrike has the best D&D-related conversion system around IMHO.

For a specific D&D game world, I recommend Will "Yamo" Mistretta's Forgotten Realms HERO (http://www.yamoslair.com/frhero.html) webpage.

[tkdguy]

I've seen Grey HERO and Forgotten Realms HERO. There's some good stuff there. Someone also came up with Dungeon HERO a while back. I haven't seen any HERO adaptations for other D&D worlds (Dark Sun, Dragonlance, Mystara, Ravenloft, etc.).

[Killer Shrike]

I've seen Grey HERO and Forgotten Realms HERO. There's some good stuff there. Someone also came up with Dungeon HERO a while back. I haven't seen any HERO adaptations for other D&D worlds (Dark Sun, Dragonlance, Mystara, Ravenloft, etc.).
GreyHERO the website is run by Heirax on these boards. He waxes and wanes on the subject as his RL dictates, but if you dropped him a line he's always a good sport and fun to bounce ideas off of.

[Lord Liaden]

There used to be a website devoted to adapting the Birthright world setting to HERO, but it disappeared a few months ago. :(

[levi]

There used to be a website devoted to adapting the Birthright world setting to HERO, but it disappeared a few months ago. :(

I tried to run a Birthright campaign for a dozen buddies a few years back and decided it would make a better Board Game than RPG. At least from the aspect of each player running a country they were bloodbound too.

[paigeoliver]

Ok, if you want to translate one of the major AD&D campaign worlds, then FORGET 3rd edition. Forgotten Realms, Greyhawk, Dragonlance, Mystara, ETC all have far more material available for pre-d20 D&D. I especially recommend this because all that pre d20 stuff is available cheaply as PDF or on ebay. No need to pay the premium for 3.5 stats if you aren't using 3.5.

Second off "prestige classes". I mean WTF are you talking about. That would be converting the SYSTEM not the campaign world. You might as well say "but how do you convert armor class". Granted I haven't played D20 D&D, but I doubt the prestige classes are really part of the campaign world, as the 2nd edition kits played almost zero part in the campaign world, with almost NO published NPCs using a kit.

Really the campaign worlds themselves need little or no converting, the npcs could use some conversions but that is about it.

Anyway, if you want to convert some D&D package deals, I suggest looking at the various "kits" in the complete handbooks. Convert all the kits from the complete handbooks and you will have more package deals than you will ever need.

[tkdguy]

Thanks, KS. I may just do that. Is Yamo still around? I'd like to talk to him too.

I wouldn't use most of the 3E stuff. I do have the 2E Forgotten Realms, which I would use, though.

[Korvar]

Ok, if you want to translate one of the major AD&D campaign worlds, then FORGET 3rd edition. Forgotten Realms, Greyhawk, Dragonlance, Mystara, ETC all have far more material available for pre-d20 D&D. I especially recommend this because all that pre d20 stuff is available cheaply as PDF or on ebay. No need to pay the premium for 3.5 stats if you aren't using 3.5.



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Almost the entire Dark Sun back-catalog is available at
SVGames (http://www.svgames.com/downloads-wotc-adnddksun.html). For much cheapness!

< /plug >

[CourtFool]

The best way to translate the feel of the supplements is to ignore all the numbers and crunch. Use the broader, general description of the class/item/race/spell and work from there.

Lets use the Extreme Explorer prestige class (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/eb/20040204a) as an example.


The ancient depths of Sharn, the tangled jungles of Q'barra, the howling crags of the Demon Wastes, and the cyclopean ruins of Xen'drik are like home to the extreme explorer. Whether motivated by a thirst for knowledge about Eberron's most ancient civilizations, a hunger for the long-lost secrets of tremendous arcane power, or simply a lust for gold, extreme explorers subject themselves to tremendous danger to achieve their goal--and somehow manage to escape in one piece, often by the skin of their teeth. The extreme explorer is the iconic action hero of Eberron: courageous, resourceful, determined, and just plain lucky.
I am thinking...
AK (Sharn, Q'barra, Demon Wastes or Xen'drik)
Psych Lim (Thirst for Knowledge, Hunger for long-lost secrets of tremendous arcane power or Lust for gold) (Common, Moderate)
Resourceful +3 INT and/or Inventor
Determined +3 EGO
Just Plain Lucky Luck or Overall Skill Levels
Often Escapes by the Skin of Their Teeth Combat Luck


Requirements

To qualify to become an extreme explorer, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.


Base Attack Bonus: +4.


Skills: Knowledge (dungeoneering) 4 ranks, Survival 4 ranks.


Feats: Action Boost.



+2 with weapon of choice

KS (Dungeoneering)

Survival (Mountain or Dungeon)






Class Skills


The extreme explorer's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Decipher Script (Int), Disable Device (Int), Escape Artist (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Knowledge (dungeoneering) (Int), Knowledge (history) (Int), Listen (Wis), Open Lock (Dex), Ride (Dex), Search (Int), Speak Language, Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), Use Magic Device (Cha), and Use Rope (Dex).



Chose X of the following:

+1 with DEX rolls, Climbing, Cryptography, Security Systems, Contortionist (weak but...), Leap +2", KS (Arcana), KS (History), +2 Hearing PER, Lockpicking, Riding, +2 Sight PER, Language, Survival, Swimming +2", Acrobatics






Weapon and Armor Proficiency:

Additional Action Points:

Trap Sense (Ex):

Dodge Bonus (Ex):

Evasion (Ex):

Extreme Hustle (Ex):

Bonus Feats:

Extreme Action (Ex):



Combat Sense

Lightning Reflexes

+2" Run

Evasive (Fantasy Hero)





...and of course flavor all of this to taste.

[Fireg0lem]

Well, maybe you're right. I didn't have any specific D&D examples in mind, so much as a basic idea of what a prestige class is, and the idea that has been used several times in Hero of a basic package deal and an advanced package deal that can only be taken after taking the proper basic one.

In that case, if you want to do that, I'd recommend constructing PrCs as "add-on" packages.

For example, if you construct a "basic cleric" package that all priests must have, at minimum - say, a VPP with set limitations and KS: My Religion - then have a few optional add-ons, for example:

Cleric Package:
VPP
KS: My Religion
Devout
Total Cost: X points.

Warpriest Add-On
WF: All Common Melee and Ranged (+4)
Tactics
+1 with Combat
Social Limitation: Violent(Total Cost: +Y points)

(These are just random examples).

Personally, I would only go to these lengths if you have players coming straight from D&D who just don't seem to "get it." Myself, I wouldn't even have package deals at all except for races, and I'd just give a few examples of archetypal characters to the players know what the norm is.

[tetsujin28]

There used to be a website devoted to adapting the Birthright world setting to HERO, but it disappeared a few months ago. :(Both Mike Harris and Jaime Matthew (the authors of the document) bailed on running it as Hero right after 3e came out. I'm surprised the site was up for as long as it was.

[tetsujin28]

Granted I haven't played D20 D&D, but I doubt the prestige classes are really part of the campaign world, as the 2nd edition kits played almost zero part in the campaign world, with almost NO published NPCs using a kit.They're supposed to be. Whether or not they are is up to the individual writer in question.

[Lezentauw]

I am working on the Kingdoms of Kalamar for my D20 world conversion. I like everything about the campaign, and I definately see it fitting better into Hero than D20. I got the impression from the campaign sourcebook that it is more of a 'low magic' or 'sword & sorcery' world than the usual 'high fantasy' D20 world. Which, is something that D20 does not do well. This has been sort of a work in progress for me. At some point, I am hoping to put up a web page with the necessary info for the players.

I am not really that big of a person for classes of any form. I think that they are a great aid for a player that has not played Hero much, but otherwise are pretty limiting. IMO, they force a linear world, where everyone starts to look the same. I like how you do not need to follow any mold for Hero, and just purchase things that are appropriate for your character's background. Now you can always use the classes as basis if you want...

If you are going to use classes, and convert the prestige classes. I would drop the prereq requirements. That is just a fiatt of the d20 level system anyways. There is no reason if a player wanted to be a knight, that he cannot start out as a knight right from the beginning of the campaign. Being a knight is a matter of nobility. As long as you purchase the correct perks, you should be able to start as one, and not wait to 5th level or some nonsense like that...

[Killer Shrike]

I am working on the Kingdoms of Kalamar for my D20 world conversion. I like everything about the campaign, and I definately see it fitting better into Hero than D20. I got the impression from the campaign sourcebook that it is more of a 'low magic' or 'sword & sorcery' world than the usual 'high fantasy' D20 world. Which, is something that D20 does not do well. This has been sort of a work in progress for me. At some point, I am hoping to put up a web page with the necessary info for the players.

I am not really that big of a person for classes of any form. I think that they are a great aid for a player that has not played Hero much, but otherwise are pretty limiting. IMO, they force a linear world, where everyone starts to look the same. I like how you do not need to follow any mold for Hero, and just purchase things that are appropriate for your character's background. Now you can always use the classes as basis if you want...

If you are going to use classes, and convert the prestige classes. I would drop the prereq requirements. That is just a fiatt of the d20 level system anyways. There is no reason if a player wanted to be a knight, that he cannot start out as a knight right from the beginning of the campaign. Being a knight is a matter of nobility. As long as you purchase the correct perks, you should be able to start as one, and not wait to 5th level or some nonsense like that...
Exactly and well said.

Package Deals are only useful when they either a) help a Player or GM tailor a concept or b) establish parameters for campaign specific formal organizations that impose certain requirements in game.

Prestige Classes specifically, while a good idea for a hide bound class & level system like D&D, are absolutely meaningless in a buy whatever you can afford point system like HERO.

Just take the abilities you like, unless the GM wants certain abilities to be exclusive to certain in game groups/organizations.

Package Deals are cool and useful right up to the point that they step over the line and become constricting and stifleing.

[John Desmarais]

I am working on the Kingdoms of Kalamar for my D20 world conversion. I like everything about the campaign, and I definately see it fitting better into Hero than D20. I got the impression from the campaign sourcebook that it is more of a 'low magic' or 'sword & sorcery' world than the usual 'high fantasy' D20 world. Which, is something that D20 does not do well. This has been sort of a work in progress for me. At some point, I am hoping to put up a web page with the necessary info for the players.

I am not really that big of a person for classes of any form. I think that they are a great aid for a player that has not played Hero much, but otherwise are pretty limiting. IMO, they force a linear world, where everyone starts to look the same. I like how you do not need to follow any mold for Hero, and just purchase things that are appropriate for your character's background. Now you can always use the classes as basis if you want...

If you are going to use classes, and convert the prestige classes. I would drop the prereq requirements. That is just a fiatt of the d20 level system anyways. There is no reason if a player wanted to be a knight, that he cannot start out as a knight right from the beginning of the campaign. Being a knight is a matter of nobility. As long as you purchase the correct perks, you should be able to start as one, and not wait to 5th level or some nonsense like that...

If you've done any formal notes for this effort I would love to read them. I'm a big fan of the Kalamar setting and had started gearing up for a Fantasy Hero game using - but changed my mind at the last minute regarding the setting (went for a setting based on M. Lackey's Valdemar novels instead).

[MisterD]

Rolemaster had a campaign world that had Fantasy Hero/Rolemaster rules.

Anyone remeber it?

I got rid of them years ago cause I had not group to play with and needed some quick cash.

[Captain Obvious]

Shadow World? I remember it. I was never very interested in it, though. It just seemed a little weird to me.

[Lezentauw]

If you've done any formal notes for this effort I would love to read them. I'm a big fan of the Kalamar setting and had started gearing up for a Fantasy Hero game using - but changed my mind at the last minute regarding the setting (went for a setting based on M. Lackey's Valdemar novels instead).

I don't have much that I would call done in a finished format. I have made some progress with areas that Kalamar did not address, notably the non-humans. I have also made certain changes so that things better fit my vision of the world, but there are still quite a few things that are very Kalamar. With that being said, I have to be carefull with the information that I release in a public format.

[Michael Hopcroft]

I don't know about Eberron as a setting for any game other than D&D. Admittedly I don't own the book, but it looks like it was a setting designed as an excuse to sell the d20 core rules.

And there have been some d20 setting that seem just plain weird. An Everquest d20 game? That had to have been one of the strangest RPGs I'd ever seen.

[Markdoc]

I don't know about Eberron as a setting for any game other than D&D. Admittedly I don't own the book, but it looks like it was a setting designed as an excuse to sell the d20 core rules.

And there have been some d20 setting that seem just plain weird. An Everquest d20 game? That had to have been one of the strangest RPGs I'd ever seen.

Is it set in a country you run right across in a couple of hours? :D

cheers, Mark

[Titan59]

Is it set in a country you run right across in a couple of hours?

You mean Andorra? :)

Actually I like Eberron. Have been doing some work on converting it to Hero recently. Some of the new races become a little unbalanced when you convert. Warforged ended up with 36 points of life support.

[ChaosDrgn]

I"m wanting the new Blackmoor d20 book to convert over :sneaky:

[tkdguy]

You mean Andorra? :)

No, Vatican City! :D