End drain?

[paigeoliver]

Do you guys think an END drain as a characters ONLY attack power is a viable concept? And if so, which would be more fun?

You're all tired out dude!
6d6 End drain.

Or

Something is wrong, very wrong
2D6 end drain (average of 14 END per hit) ranged, area effect one hex, fully invisible power effects.

The first one is obviously massively effective in taking down any END based character without power defense. While the second one is a different approach, being a one hex invisible power it is for all practical purposes an always hit power, and the targets will have no idea what is happening except that they seem to be running out of steam far too quickly.

Or, what would be a great complimentary attack power to have in addition to this one? Keeping with the whole odd but effective attack power idea of course?

[Spectre]

building an adjuster? I love adjusters. Nothing is more frustrating for the bad guys(or good guys) than a guy who just messes up all their powers.

Other nasties that you can add to this list are speed drains, END transfers, INT and EGO drains, DEF drains, ect...

Add some Aid powers in there to to jack up your compadre's at the same time you are draining your enemies.

SPD aid - cumulative, AoE radius is one of my all around favs
DEX aid - works well for bricks
STR aid - makes a martial artist really dangerous
END aid - keep those blasters, blasting away
and so forth and so on.

[paigeoliver]

Hmmm, a 6d6 Int drain would take out most characters in one hit.

Anything in the rules about negative INT?

a 4d6 Presence transfer could also prove equally lethal.

[OddHat]

As an attack power, END drain can be fun, if the GM is keeping track of the bad guys END usage and the combat lasts long enough for it to matter. For an NPC villain it's more effective, afain assuming combats take a while. The current default Champions set up seems to be three hits and you're down, which works out to combats lasting one or two turns at most between evenly matched teams.

Assuming that 6d6 End Drain Guy is managing to zap 42 end per hit, most targets with be at 0 End in 1 or 2 hits, taking some Stun every time they use their powers. That sounds cool, but it really won't do all that much Stun, unless the GM allows the END drain to switch over to doing Stun after the the target's End hits 0.

One effective variation on this power; 8d6 Supress versus Stun and End at the same time. The target will on average lose 56 END and 28 Stun from the first hit, making any Stun they take from using their own powers count far more. One of the best deals out their for 60 points. Throw it in a MP with other adjustment attacks, or spend 120 points outside of any framework on that plus a 4d6 Stun to End transfer and make multiple Power attacks; foes without Power Def will often go down in 1 hit.

Then the GM wil send armies of Automatons and high Power Def foes at you.

[OddHat]

Hmmm, a 6d6 Int drain would take out most characters in one hit.

Anything in the rules about negative INT?

a 4d6 Presence transfer could also prove equally lethal.

At 0 and lower Int, the target will continue to mindlessly repeat whatever action he or she was taking before hitting 0. It's not all that useful.

Pre Suppress and Transfer are useful, if the GM allows you to make PRE attacks after combat begins. After the first time you scare the main bad guy into retreating, many GMs won't.

Edit: Also, unless you can get them to 0 Pre in 1 shot, you really need to go for Pre and Ego at the same time; Pre Attacks are applied against the higher of the two.

[paigeoliver]

Well I am the GM, and this is for a villian.

I am thinking this concept now.

Make the villian roughly a heroic level martial artist. Speed 3, characteristics generally within normal maxima.

But he had a radiation accident, so he gained a few powers.

Specifically a little bit of overall hardiness.
10 PD
10 ED
10 Mental Defense
10 Power Defense
10 Flash Defense

Then his other powers?

The 2d6 END drain, ranged, area effect one hex, totally invisible power effects.

+3 speed, extra speed only to use drains. -1

Invisibility vs. sight. No fringe.

I think this would make a highly effective villain against certain character types. Against the right characters he could drain them completely dry of end, and then attack with conventional martial arts. His foes would be stuck using stun for END constantly since he would still be doing 3 drains per turn anyway, which would effectively void any recovery attempts.

This is the kind of character who could basically take out many solo heroes before they even realized what was happening, and he would also be super effective in a group of mixed villians (his foes might never realize he is even there). Although he would be terribly ineffective trying to fight a group of hero's solo.

[OddHat]

Personally I don't like Extra Spd, only to use X, but that's a judgement call.

Remember that Hide Effects of Powers doubles the final cost of IPE, so you're talking +2 if you don't wnat the players to know that they're losing End near this guy, +1 if they just can't be sure that the guy is actually doing it.

It is a nasty and effective power set (Deux Ex Machina Man). If I were you, I'd make sure that at least one PC had the right power set to detect and deal with this guy; snipers are cool, but there's a risk of serious player frustration with an invisible sniper.

[paigeoliver]

Well, I was thinking along the lines of him and his partner (another villian, unsure of type yet, probably a flying brick as they are pretty versatile) totally winning the first fight, then the heroes figuring out how to beat them and coming back and beating them.

When you combine the invisible power effects with the invisible character then the characters don't even know that there IS a sniper!

And of course it is almost impossible to keep an invisible villian with end drain in police custody, so I imagine he would escape fairly easily and often.

I also normally don't like the extra speed only for X approach, but in this case I lowered his base speed to compensate, so it isn't nearly as imbalanced as it would be if he had normal speed for the campaign and THEN added that on.

[TheEmerged]

How useful is an END drain?

Depends -- how common are methods of getting around END costs in your campaign? That is, how common are the 0 END advantage, END reserves, and Charges?

Speaking for my current campaign, END reserves are quite common (it's in keeping with the "quantum pool" of novas, an aspect borrowed from Aberrant(tm) ). So this would be something a character might have as an "intended MPA" power -- something bought with the intention of always being used with the TRUE attack power.

[Kristopher]

And people wonder why I try to get some justifiable Power Def on all my PCs...

[Killer Shrike]

Personally I don't like Extra Spd, only to use X, but that's a judgement call. Same. Ive allowed it a few times in limited circumstances and it's always been more trouble than it's worth.

[Killer Shrike]

END Drain is brutally effective vs many characters, especially if combined with a REC Drain to.

I usually model sleep Powers on END Drain. Unless a character has massive amounts of STUN, trying to take actions with negative END will knock them out fast, even if they detect that you are putting the Sleep mojo on them.


However, fair warning, this type of villain is not fun to play against at all. If they bushwack you it's difficult to overcome, and even if you overcome them instead then or later, its very anticlimatic because they are typically pretty frail for purposes of direct conflict and go down easy.

A question that I usually ask myself when designing a villain is "would I want a player to have these Powers?" and if the answer is "No" then I reconsider. I might do it anyway, but Ill do so knowing that if I dont curb it somehow Im basically playing by a double standard, which is not fair or fun.

[Killer Shrike]

Also, if you are going to do it, consider a 2d6 Ranged Drain vs CON and all CON based Secondaries simultaneously, Penetrating, Continuous, Uncontrolled, Fully IPE; Standard Effect.

This will get most characters....eventually.

It will take 3 CON, 3 ED, 3 REC, 12 END, 6 STUN per click, undetectibly. Even if the character has PowerDefense it will get 1/3 thru.

[Killer Shrike]

And people wonder why I try to get some justifiable Power Def on all my PCs...
I dont require justification for Power Defense or Mental Defense. As far as Im concerned they should be figureds. PowDef would be based on BODY, Mental Defense obviously is figured from EGO.

I dont think it requires any justification to be somewhat resistant to various forms of attack. Its not like it's an absolute effect -- its simply a Defense. If a player wants to pay points for it, weighing the likelyhood of needing it vs the benefits of having it if they do need it, then good on them. The point cost is sufficient deterent.

I try to get a at least a little mental and power defense on all of my own PC's. Even 5 Pow D/ 5 MD can take the edge off.