Social Limitations Help

[Worldmaker]

I'm trying to add the following to the Master List of Social Limitations, but to tell you the truth I am so burned out coming up with these things that my brain has turned to tapioca. So I'm asking for help.

I need descriptions and point values for the following limitations. Any help anyone could give me would be greatly appreciated. These will be posted as entries in the Master List of Social Limitations.

Easy to Read
Mundane Background
Nerd
Object of a Stereotype

Again, any help anyone can give will be greatly appreciated.


Jack Butler

[JmOz]

Easy to read:

Verry Common, Major (20)

Stereotype (Incledes Nerd): Common, Mild-Major (10-15)

Don't understand what you mean by the other one

[Worldmaker]

Originally posted by JmOz
Easy to read:

Verry Common, Major (20)

Stereotype (Incledes Nerd): Common, Mild-Major (10-15)

Don't understand what you mean by the other one

That's good, but I also need a paragraph or two of description regarding the effects of the Limitations. I made Nerd separate for the same reasons I made Code vs. Killing separate from "Code of Conduct" in the Psych List: its too well-known an option.

Mundane Background would be someone who was born and raised in mundania. No big city lights, no fancy schmancy anything.

[Wormhole]

While we're on on the subject of Social Limitations, how about this as an addition to the list:

Kidnap Prone (Frequently, Major) 11- 15 pts

The definative disadvantage of damsels in distress (and DNPCs in general), this represents some factor that makes the character an especially attractive target for kidnappers. Anytime a senerio involves a villain's plot to kidnap someone, this character will likely be the intended target or will get taken in addition to the intended victim just because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time. This disadvantage is generally intended for NPCs, a PC should not take it unless the player has been advised of the potential consequences and is willing to roleplay it for all it's worth.

If anyone wishes to add to the above, feel free.

[TheEmerged]

Good example of Mundane would be my cousin Kelly* (name changed). She's a great woman, really, but she lives in a world were she can believe what she reads in the newspapers and all those weird things happen to other families and other people. For comparison purposes I've seen a UFO (no probe jokes, please), been near-missed by lightning, and am fully aware of some of the "family skeletons" on her side (my mother) of the family. One of my fondest memories is the look on her face when she heard my mom telling one of them at a family reunion -- priceless :D

[CrosshairCollie]

This might not be the right place, but I have to admit, 'Social LImitation' is something I don't quite ... grasp. Especially looking at the Master List page. Just on the first page (the As and Bs), I see things I'd call other kinds of Disads:

Always Angry And Hostile: Psych Lim
Amnesia: Phys or Psych Lim (depending on if it's due to injury or hysteria).
Atavism: Distinctive Features
Bigmouth/Braggart: Psych Lim
Bounty: Hunted (the party is still responsible for hindering/harming the PC, even if it's through a third party).

I've read the book, but I still don't get just what a social limitation is. It seems more like a responsiblity you accept, like it or not (Secret ID/Public ID, joining the military to become Subject To Orders). But I'm not sure where the 'line' is ...

[TheEmerged]

Try and think of it like this.

A physical limitation has to do with your body (IMO absurd "Unfamiliar with Earth culture" examples set aside as a rant for another day).

A physchology limitation has to do with your mind/thought processes, or your beliefs.

A social limitation has to do with how you react to and are treated by other people. Unlike the other two, it's more similar to Reputation in that it's "external".

For example, Code Versus Killing is a psychological disadvantage. Pacifist (especially in a warlike culture) is a social disadvantage, because it means people treat you differently.

Taking myself as an example, I'm noticeably eccentric. This is a social limitation, because for the most part the only problems it creates for me are social ones.

[CrosshairCollie]

The theoretical problem with assigning a disad to 'how other people treat you' is that's kind of forcing other people's actions on them. Distinctive Features are just 'there'. The Thing has 20 or 25, and people do tend to be very afraid of him because he's big and scary looking. Would he get a social limitation for it also? Besides, not everybody would react the same way, even ignoring blind people. :) Wouldn't that depend more on the Psych Lims/personality of the people around the character?

Rather than body/mind, I usually use the 4th Edition variant for Physical/Psychological LImitations:
Physical is something you *can't* do.
Psychological is something you *won't* do.
So Social is ... something people do to you?

[BlackCobra]

Originally posted by CrosshairCollie
The theoretical problem with assigning a disad to 'how other people treat you' is that's kind of forcing other people's actions on them. Distinctive Features are just 'there'. The Thing has 20 or 25, and people do tend to be very afraid of him because he's big and scary looking. Would he get a social limitation for it also? Besides, not everybody would react the same way, even ignoring blind people. :) Wouldn't that depend more on the Psych Lims/personality of the people around the character?

Rather than body/mind, I usually use the 4th Edition variant for Physical/Psychological LImitations:
Physical is something you *can't* do.
Psychological is something you *won't* do.
So Social is ... something people do to you?


I'd agree with this structure, since I think it more accurately reflects the nicely generic nature of these disads.

Social disadvantages are ones that are entirely based on how other people, in general, treat you. Or will treat you.

From FReD, page 221: "This Disadvantage means the character's ability to interact with other people is somehow limited, restricted, more difficult than usual, or dangerous to him."

Based on that, you have to view these as externally imposed limitations, not internally as psychological limits would be.

For instance, if the character has "Obeys Orders" the Psyche limit, it means he will (generally) always follow orders. If, on the other hand, he is "Subject to Orders" the Social limit, than he's part of some group (the military) that expects him to follow them. He doesn't have to, but then there'll be consequences. Much like if the Social limit was "Secret". Doesn't do much sitting there, but once someone learns it -- watch out!

I think Worldmaker is also using Social to do things we used to (in 4th) used Distinctive Features for, like "Constant Prankster". Using Social limit for that is probably more appropriate in 5th.

[jtelson]

Social Limitations are tricky because they are as open ended as Psychological or Physical Limits without the same clear context.

Psych Limits reflect how your character will choose to behave. 'I choose not to kill people'
Physical Limits reflect how your character can behave. 'I am incapable either through action or inaction to allow the death of a sentient being'
Social limits reflect how the predominant campaign culture will react to your character or a group your character belongs to. 'Pacifier is a member of Save our Sentients, he won't kill you'

What I don't understand is why reputation wasn't included under Social Limits.

[Worldmaker]

Originally posted by Wormhole
While we're on on the subject of Social Limitations, how about this as an addition to the list:

Kidnap Prone (Frequently, Major) 11- 15 pts

.

Consider it added, thanks.

[Zaratustra]

Phys Lim is something you can't do.
Psych Lim is something you won't do.
Soc Lim is something they won't let you do.

There :)

[Hitchhiker]

Has Mundane Background been added yet?

If not, I'll give it a try:

Social Limitation
Mundane Background (Common, Major, 10 - 15 Pts)
Character easily believes things he never heard about, and/or has problems getting along with the modern world. Either he has been living under "unmodern" circumstances for most of his life, or he hasn't been in the "real" world for a long time (imagine someone waking up from a cryogenetic freezer a thousand years after he's been put to sleep).

[Wormhole]

Originally posted by Hitchhiker
Has Mundane Background been added yet?

If not, I'll give it a try:

Social Limitation
Mundane Background (Common, Major, 10 - 15 Pts)
Character easily believes things he never heard about, and/or has problems getting along with the modern world. Either he has been living under "unmodern" circumstances for most of his life, or he hasn't been in the "real" world for a long time (imagine someone waking up from a cryogenetic freezer a thousand years after he's been put to sleep).
Sounds like a good discription of "Out Of Touch With The Times" but I'm not sure it works for "Mundane Background" as Worldmaker is asking for. I'll dig out my GURPS books and get back to you guys on this one alittle later.

[TheEmerged]

It's in "Compendium 1", Wormhole.

[Wormhole]

Thanks Emerged, I got it:

Mundane Background (Frequently, Minor) 11- 10 pts

This disadvantage is only allowed in campaigns where wondrous powers and occurences are the norm. Real-life people are, sadly, quite "mundane," and get no points for it.

This Social Limitation reflects a total lack of experience with the occult, the weird, and the alien. The character probably grew up in the middle of an Iowa cornfield, was not visited by aliens during his teen years, believes magic is something done by David Copperfield, and the lastest model of Fords epitomize cutting-edge technology.

Naturally, PCs with this disadvantage cannot start the campaign with anything other than normal, mundane skills or equipment appropriate to their general level of technology. Skills like KS: Conspiracy Theories and KS: Occultism are forbidden- the character might read the astrology column in the newspaper, but that's about it.

The character may have (hidden) powers but cannot use them as he lacks the skill and experience. He has no idea that he possesses talents beyond the norm, except maybe for the odd dream now and then.

This disadvantage must to be bought off or traded in the moment the character becomes "enlightened."

[Worldmaker]

Thanks guys. I appreciate all the help, believe me. If you have any more you want to throw my way, please do.

[WillS]

The 'mundane' person's idea of a wild night is mixing a teaspoon of real coffee in with the decaf.

(I stole that from Calvin and Hobbes :D )

[Wormhole]

Unregistered "Meta" (Frequently, Major) 11- 15 pts

This Social Limitation is only appropriate in campaign worlds where individuals with paranormal abilities are required by law to register with the government. It reflects the fact that the character, for what ever reason, is in violation of said laws. The character may or may not officially be a Wanted Criminal, but any conspicuous use of his abilities will very likely get him in trouble- especially if the media or police are there to witness the "disturbance."

[Worldmaker]

Nice one, Wormhole. Thanks.

[Worldmaker]

I'm still needing help with Easy to Read, Nerd, and Object of a Stereotype.

[DigitalGolem]

Originally posted by Worldmaker
Thanks guys. I appreciate all the help, believe me. If you have any more you want to throw my way, please do.

Okay, here's one; I just wrote up a character who happens to be an MD. (No, I didn't use hippocratic oath as a disad.) He's often "on call", so he has to go to work on extremely short notice, or at inconvenient times. I'd generalize this to a sub-class of social limitation called "Professional Obligations", or maybe just "Day Job". I think in most cases, this would be limited to "minor restrictions", as the worst thing that could happen to the character would be getting fired. (If you can call that 'minor'!);)

DGv3.0

[Wormhole]

Excommunicated
Frequently, Minor: 10 pts|Frequently, Major: 15 pts
This Social Limitation reflects the fact that the leadership of the character's religion have declared him an "infidal," making him a pariah among others who practice that faith. At Minor level, the religion in question is merely a societal or political power issue (like most religions in real life). At Major level, the religion possesses some real supernatural power or enough influence in society as a whole to make the character's life difficult.

I'll be back with more soon.

:cool:

[steriaca]

Hear is proably one most people don't think about when we say Social Limatation.

Homosexual (Infrenquently, Major) 10 points.

The above is for thoes who acualy want to keep there sexual idenities secret. The above can also repersent (with a littel renaming) thoes who are closeted pedophiles or closeted necrophiles.

As for the atraction to kids or corpses, that is a psycological limatation. I do not recomend a psychological limatation for Homosexual, since there are lots of funcunal homosexuals out there who do not have sex with eveyone of the same gender thay meet.

[Wormhole]

Easy to Read
Frequently, Minor: 10 pts|Very Frequently, Minor: 15 pts

This Social Limitation is for a character who has difficultly hiding his emotions and intentions from others. It is possible he lacks the ability to control his body language and facal expressions as well as most people or he generates some sort of "vibe" that others pick up on easily. He also suffers a penalty of -1 to -3 with Interaction Skills in appropriate circumstances. At the Frequent level, the character can ocasionally hide his thoughts and feelings with an INT roll at -3. At the Very Frequent level, the character is an open book 24/7.

[Wormhole]

(Supernatural Being) Masquarading As A Human
Frequently, Major: 15 pts
This Social Limitation is intended for modern fantasy campaign worlds where beings of myth and legend are walking among present day humans (such as portrayed in Buffy The Vampire Slayer and In Nomine). It functions similar to Secret Identity in superheroic campaigns. Examples include:

Vampire Masquarading As A Human
Elf Masquarading As A Human
Demon Masquarading As A Human
Angel Masquarading As A Human
Werewolf Masquarading As A Human

[Worldmaker]

Originally posted by Wormhole
(Supernatural Being) Masquarading As A Human
Frequently, Major: 15 pts
This Social Limitation is intended for modern fantasy campaign worlds where beings of myth and legend are walking among present day humans (such as portrayed in Buffy The Vampire Slayer and In Nomine). It functions similar to Secret Identity in superheroic campaigns. Examples include:

Vampire Masquarading As A Human
Elf Masquarading As A Human
Demon Masquarading As A Human
Angel Masquarading As A Human
Werewolf Masquarading As A Human


Now that is rather clever.

[Wormhole]

Thanks.:)

[TheEmerged]

I'll take a crack out one of the others. It's based on my opinion, YMMV and all that.

NERD: Social Limitation
Frequency and Severity vary: Infrequent/Minor for most adults, Very Common/Major for minors

This social limitation is generally more severe for minors that are still in school, or adults in situations of constant, mandatory socialization (careers such as sales or teaching), than for the majority of adults.

Nerds are generally peer-identified by their "unpopular" tastes -- however, on closer examination one quickly realizes a "chicken/egg" phenomenon is occuring. Things can quickly go from popular to otherwise if the "nerd" segment of the population is seen as interested (also known as the "Sneetches" effect, from the Dr. Seuss short).

In practice, nerds desire social contact/affirmation far out of proportion to their social capability. They want to belong, but for whatever reason (often, good reasons) do not do what is "needed" to belong. This is distinct from the Geek, which often actively seeks to repel or work against the urge to "belong".

[Wormhole]

Originally posted by TheEmerged
I'll take a crack out one of the others. It's based on my opinion, YMMV and all that.

NERD: Social Limitation
Frequency and Severity vary: Infrequent/Minor for most adults, Very Common/Major for minors

This social limitation is generally more severe for minors that are still in school, or adults in situations of constant, mandatory socialization (careers such as sales or teaching), than for the majority of adults.

Nerds are generally peer-identified by their "unpopular" tastes -- however, on closer examination one quickly realizes a "chicken/egg" phenomenon is occuring. Things can quickly go from popular to otherwise if the "nerd" segment of the population is seen as interested (also known as the "Sneetches" effect, from the Dr. Seuss short).

In practice, nerds desire social contact/affirmation far out of proportion to their social capability. They want to belong, but for whatever reason (often, good reasons) do not do what is "needed" to belong. This is distinct from the Geek, which often actively seeks to repel or work against the urge to "belong".
I dof my cap to you, I had one for this in the works and you beat me to the punch. :o
Kudos to you Emerged. ;)

[Space Cadet]

Just out of curiousity, Worldmaker, has anyone come up with
a point value yet for the "Known Sex Offender" SL that was
posted to the boards prior to their trashing? I'm asking you
this because I've been trying to come up with a reasonable
point cost for this disad ever since I suggested it on the old
boards.

Space Cadet :confused:

[TheEmerged]

Thanks, I just hope this conversation doesn't devolve into an argument of the definition/dividing line between geek and nerd :D

[Worldmaker]

Originally posted by Space Cadet
Just out of curiousity, Worldmaker, has anyone come up with
a point value yet for the "Known Sex Offender" SL that was
posted to the boards prior to their trashing? I'm asking you
this because I've been trying to come up with a reasonable
point cost for this disad ever since I suggested it on the old
boards.

Space Cadet :confused:

Frequently, Major (15 Points) seems to work in most situations.

[Cybernaut]

Parole/Probation Restrictions
Infrequently, Major 8- (10 pts)
A character with this Social Limitation is either on a conditional release from prison or is a first time offender who was sentienced to probation instead of jail time. Either way, the character has had certain restrictions placed on his freedoms. He must regularly check in with his parole/probation officer, cannot associate with known felons, may not be allowed to leave the city, and may be restricted from legally owning a firearm or similar weapons (where appropriate) for the duration of his sentience. If he is caught violating any of the these conditions, he will likely be arrested and sent to prison. The character may or may not have Watched By Local Law Enforcement in addition to this- as a rule, the police only monitor parolees that closely if they believe there's good cause to do so.

[Worldmaker]

Nice work!

You know, considering that I don't have the time needed to devote to completing the Master Lists, maybe I should start just posting the ones I'm missing and let you guys do the rest. :D

Seriously, though, I do appreciate the help.


Jack Butler

[Wormhole]

I found this little gem in the old board archives:
http://www.herogames.com/oldForum/Rules/001113.html

If you just ignore R Jubal's attempt at an insult, some of this stuff is gold.:D

[Worldmaker]

Originally posted by Wormhole
I found this little gem in the old board archives:
http://www.herogames.com/oldForum/Rules/001113.html

If you just ignore R Jubal's attempt at an insult, some of this stuff is gold.:D

Thanks, that helps.

[2gunkid]

I was making up some NPCs for a Champions Game last night, and was fooling around with their disadvantages. Normally, I don't sweat the details too much, relying on the infamous "Villain Bonus" to plug any holes, but I try to get close with real disadvantages.

Anyway, I was making a Veloci-raptor. Just for yucks I gave him Distinctive Feature: Veloci-raptor (not concealable, major reaction) and (just to amuse myself) Social Limitation: Dinosaur. I laughed.

My girlfriend's reading over my shoulder and asks what that means. I said, "It means he has trouble relating to people in normal society because he's a big freakin' lizard. I'm not sure I'd actually let a PC take it."

"Why not?" she asks.

And I can't come up with a good reason. It seems like double-dipping to take a big Distinctive Feature that causes an extreme reaction and a Social Lim for the same thing. What do y'all think?


:)
James.