Rules for Summoning vehicles = LOCO!

[Yamo]

Okay, so according to Ultimate Vehicle, you calculate the cost of a vehicle Summon based on the total points in the vehicle, not the total points divided by five. And the +1 Amicable Advantage is mandatory.

Huh?

Using that method, it costs well over 100 points to summon a freakin' Ford Taurus!

Does this seem a little silly to anyone else?

Or does anyone seriously contend that the ability to wave your hand and make a mid-sized sedan appear is as useful as a 20+d6 Energy Blast, a 7 or 8d6 KA, a small Cosmic VPP, an "anything to anything" Transform, etc?

Is this some kind of misguided attempt to prevent players from Summoning Star HERO warships, or something? Well, since even that would cost something like 1100 points with this method, they've arguably gone too far there, too!

Where's the balance here exactly? It's silly! A Ford assembly line would have a higher Active Point cost than a nuclear missile launcher.

[Monolith]

You are forgetting that Summon has a built-in division by 5 already. What TUV is saying is that you do not divide by 5 twice (once for the vehicle rules, and once for the Summon rules). A two-door automobile in TUV is 56 points. To Summon it costs you 12 points (60/5=12; I believe you consider the cost to be 60, not 56, because it is over 55) and then add a +1 Amicable Advantage. That makes the cost of the power 24 points. 24 point is quite reasonable to summon a Taurus. :)

[Yamo]

You are forgetting that Summon has a built-in division by 5 already. What TUV is saying is that you do not divide by 5 twice (once for the vehicle rules, and once for the Summon rules).

D'oh! :eek:

I thought the rule was saying "no division at all" and thus the Taurus Summon would be 112 AP. Oops!

Disregard this thread, I guess.

[BNakagawa]

Buy this power and you'll be the team brick's bestest buddy.

[keithcurtis]

Summoning a Ford Taurus mght be very useful, especially if you could summon it directly over someone's head.

Keith "Incoming!" Curtis

[BobGreenwade]

Originally posted by Monolith
To Summon it costs you 12 points (60/5=12; I believe you consider the cost to be 60, not 56, because it is over 55) and then add a +1 Amicable Advantage. No, to Summon it costs 11 points (before the Advantage). You don't round up for Summon, but to the nearest 5.

[BobGreenwade]

Originally posted by keithcurtis
Summoning a Ford Taurus mght be very useful, especially if you could summon it directly over someone's head. That would be a Linked AOE Energy Blast. :)

[Monolith]

Originally posted by BobGreenwade
No, to Summon it costs 11 points (before the Advantage). You don't round up for Summon, but to the nearest 5.
I wasn't sure without looking in the book (Summon just does not come up much). I did not know if you rounded it like everything else, or if it was different. Thanks! :)

[Talon]

I don't think that's right -- Summon isn't rounding, it's "1 point for 5 Summon points". If you want less than 5 points, you still have to pay the one point.

(Hero Designer has a 56 point summon as costing 12 points, and it tends to be right about these things.)

[BobGreenwade]

Originally posted by Geoff Speare
I don't think that's right -- Summon isn't rounding, it's "1 point for 5 Summon points". If you want less than 5 points, you still have to pay the one point.

(Hero Designer has a 56 point summon as costing 12 points, and it tends to be right about these things.) Okay, you're right about that much -- though it's still capable of being wrong. I still expect to see the "round at every step along the way" rule, and the only exception I remember being explicitly named is SPD. Maybe a clarification from Steve is in order here.

[Talon]

I think the difference is that the text for Summon doesn't say "take the points of the creature you want to Summon and divide by 5." It says "1 point for 5 points". Thus, no rounding should be involved.

Should. :)

[JohnTaber]

Hi Guys,

I actually have a situation like this in my campaign and I don't have the ultimate vehicle book. Can I clarify something with everyone? I want to make sure I understand this...I also want to get the opinions from other Hero folks. Let me know what you think...

A PC in my game is named Smith. He can magically "summon" anything he has touched and analyzed in the past. It is bought with a VPP. Now...for guns and such it is easy...I have questions about vehicles...

1) Does this mean the VPP point cost of said Ford Taurus is 60 points (i.e. 60 points from the VPP are used) OR does it mean the character only has to use 24 points of his VPP?

2) What about the max VPP cost? Does the PC need a 60 point threshhold in his VPP to summon a Taurus OR is 24 points enough?

This is hard to explain...

[Grymlynn]

I believe:

Your VPP has to have at least 60 points in it to cover the active cost, but only 24 points of the pool will be held by the Summon power, until they don't need the car anymore. Then, the character can move those 24 points into something else. I guess the special efect would be the car owner showing up and yelling "Dood, where's my car!"

[BobGreenwade]

Originally posted by JohnTaber
Hi Guys,

I actually have a situation like this in my campaign and I don't have the ultimate vehicle book. Can I clarify something with everyone? I want to make sure I understand this...I also want to get the opinions from other Hero folks. Let me know what you think...

A PC in my game is named Smith. He can magically "summon" anything he has touched and analyzed in the past. It is bought with a VPP. Now...for guns and such it is easy...I have questions about vehicles...

1) Does this mean the VPP point cost of said Ford Taurus is 60 points (i.e. 60 points from the VPP are used) OR does it mean the character only has to use 24 points of his VPP?

2) What about the max VPP cost? Does the PC need a 60 point threshhold in his VPP to summon a Taurus OR is 24 points enough?

This is hard to explain... If he's using Summon for this power, then it starts at 12 base points (or 11, depending on how you round); the Amicable Advantage boosts it to 24 (or 22). Further Advantages can increase the cost, but that's the basics.

(Under some Special Effects, I'd allow a Vehicle to be bought in a VPP directly, using the Vehicle's base points as Active Points and its actual cost as the Cost. Thus, the Taurus would be 56 Active Points and 11 Real Points. This is not one of those Special Effects. I'd also insist in most cases that the Only Change At Base Garage Limitation be taken.)

[tesuji]

Just as an aside...

Do you really think the ability to summon a normal car is worth 24cp for a superheroic game?

For the same cost i could get a blaster rifle with 4 clips of 4 charges doing 12d6.

For 20 points i could go invisible.

Do you think the taurus' will prove anywhere near as useful as these?

[Gary]

Originally posted by tesuji
Just as an aside...

Do you really think the ability to summon a normal car is worth 24cp for a superheroic game?

For the same cost i could get a blaster rifle with 4 clips of 4 charges doing 12d6.

For 20 points i could go invisible.

Do you think the taurus' will prove anywhere near as useful as these?

If you put the same limitations on the summon Taurus as the blaster rifle, OAF 4 clips 4 charges, it will cost 10 pts. You're not comparing apples to apples. And for 10 pts, you get lots of 0 End running, a few pts of protection, a radio, and a possible area effect hex attack. Not too bad.

[Monolith]

Originally posted by tesuji
Do you think the taurus' will prove anywhere near as useful as these?
It will if you have no movement powers and need to get to the other side of Millennium City in a hurry. :)

Also keep in mind that the Taurus was Yamo's example. He could have used used M1 Abrams. :)

[JohnTaber]

Originally posted by Grymlynn
I believe:

Your VPP has to have at least 60 points in it to cover the active cost, but only 24 points of the pool will be held by the Summon power, until they don't need the car anymore. Then, the character can move those 24 points into something else. I guess the special efect would be the car owner showing up and yelling "Dood, where's my car!"

FYI. This is how I am currently playing it. The only part that is weird is the VPP having to have at least 60 points to cover the active cost. In fact, the player bought a 100 pt VPP for this reason. Since the player is fantastic I don't have to worry about abuse issues...it just seemed like a funny ruling...

[BobGreenwade]

Originally posted by tesuji
Just as an aside...

Do you really think the ability to summon a normal car is worth 24cp for a superheroic game?

For the same cost i could get a blaster rifle with 4 clips of 4 charges doing 12d6.

For 20 points i could go invisible.

Do you think the taurus' will prove anywhere near as useful as these? How much for a Taurus with a mounted blaster rifle and an invisibility device?

[JmOz]

About 30 points,