TK/PK question

[Thirdbase]

Here are parts of two characters (assume all other characteristics, skills, powers are the same).


DEX 20 30 pts OCV/DCV 7
EGO 10 0 pts ECV 3
SPD 4 10 pts
Telekinesis 40 STR 60 pts

Total pts 100


DEX 10 0 pts OCV/DCV 3
EGO 20 20 pts ECV 7
SPD 4 20 pts
Psychokinesis 13 STR +1 BoECV, +1 Does Body 60 pts (see pg 162 FREd)
[Psychokinesis 15 STR +3/4 BoECV, +1 Does Body 60 pts (see pg 162 FREd)]

Total pts 100[100]

In both cases the defender uses his DCV (pg 147 FREd)
The second Psychokinetic has range penalties lim on Telekinesis

This means that your 60 Active Point character can do either 2.5d6 or 3d6 or 4d6 as an EB

Those two characters have the same chances to hit, but the second would have trouble hurting anyone.

What is wrong or right with this?

[Steve Long]

Since this isn't exactly a rules question, and I'm at my sister's wedding and don't have time to analyze it in full as it deserves, I'm transferring it to "HERO System Discussion" in the hopes Herodom Assembled can help me out. ;)

[Captain Obvious]

Everything that follows is my opinion, based on my experience with Hero from 3rd Edition on. Don't go building official characters with anything posted here....

Typically, the advantage of Based on ECV comes in from three sources. First, most people have no Mental Defense, second, EGO (the targeting characteristic) costs less than DEX, and third, most people have lower EGO than DEX, resulting in a lower DECV. The description of the psychokinesis power in the FREd (p147) says that the target still uses DEX based DCV to avoid being hit, thus eliminating source number 3.

Common sense implies that being hit by a thrown object (no matter whether that object is thrown by hand, by magnetic beams (a SFX of standard TK), or by the power of the mind (psychokinesis)) will hurt a brick less than a physically frail mentalist, ie PD applies, not Mental Defense. Advantage source number 1 is out.

Based on the fact that the only real advantage involved in this case is that fact that the character targets the TK with the relatively cheaper EGO rather than DEX, I'd only charge the character a +1/2 multiplier instead of the standard +1.

Like I said, I doubt this would float in any sort of official setting, but in my personal games, I'm not out to screw my players.

[Monolith]

Your 40 STR TK does 28/8 on an average roll. This character will hit most opponents on an 11- roll. As an attack, the average damage taken will be 8 STUN and 0 BODY. The character needs to use STR to escape the TK.

Your 13 STR TK, BoECV, Does BODY does 8/2 on an average roll. This character will hit most opponents on an 15- roll. As an attack, the average damage taken will be 8 STUN and 2 BODY. The character needs to use EGO to escape the TK.

The difference between the two is, that while the BoECV version is easier to break out of, it is substantially easier to hit with, and on top of that will do BODY damage to the person being held by it. The standard TK, on the other hand, only has an average chance to hit. It does the same amount of damage, but does no BODY. It is also harder to escape.

Against a foe with Mental DEF, version 2 will suck. Against a brick, version 1 will suck. Ideally I consider them to be about equal, and would give the edge to the BoECV version due to the greater chance to hit and the additional BODY damage being done.

[JmOz]

I like the examinatino above, but I contend that Ego is not cheaper than Dex, if you factor in the effects Dex has on Speed. If you hold to this contention, then upon review you will note that there is very little advantage to ego instead of dex, thus I consider the following +0 advantage in my game uses OECV. This also includes the ability to use the power as a mental power (namely the ability to let Ego decide when you act). Note that this does NOT permit the power to be used against DECV, something that most certainly would require an advantage (see above for reasons)

[Thirdbase]

I'm just moving this back up to the top to get more replies.:)

[cubist]

Well, I have one question: why did you put Does Body on the design? Even the PK example in the book doesn't make you pay for that. Also, even if your tk bolt didn't do Body, that manhole cover your pyschokinetic just drilled the thug in the head with would.

[schir1964]

Hero 5th Edition - Page 162, BASED ON EGO COMBAT VALUE, Third Paragraph:

"All BOECV attacks should do STUN damage only unless the character also pays for the Does BODY Advantage (see below) or has special permission from the GM."

[Thirdbase]

Originally posted by schir1964
Hero 5th Edition - Page 162, BASED ON EGO COMBAT VALUE, Third Paragraph:

"All BOECV attacks should do STUN damage only unless the character also pays for the Does BODY Advantage (see below) or has special permission from the GM."

That's why I listed the page references.

[cubist]

Yes, but Psychokinesis example power, page 147, sidebar is an actual description of the power that does not contain thisd advantage, so i would guess that in this case, Steve felt it was not necessary.