The Wheel of Time

[NuSoardGraphite]

With the new book out, and Hero 5th out, and all the new (and old skool) Hero converts lurking around these days, I figure its time to resurrect this old topic...

Too bad we don't have access to the old message board. There was a TON of great stuff in there for WoT based games. I still have to finish the Blademaster Arts! (I was about 3/4 done with it) and now its lost....ALL LOST!:(

[Nolgroth]

I didn't save the discussion as late as your Blademaster stuff, but I do have the HTML file of most of the discussion prior to that. E-mail me an address I can send it to, if you should want it.

[Edit] Oops, didn't add an e-mail for you to send to. nolgroth@netscape.net

[NuSoardGraphite]

Ooh, Ooh!

You saved some?

My Hero!

I'll be e-mailing you about it this weekend.

I'm not really worried about the Blademaster stuff. I can always do that again (I really should put it into my own computer) and I want to adjust it to the 5th edition anyway, so starting from scratch is okay.

[ShadowRaptor]

Wheel of Time is cool. I have the d20 book for it but I think it would be sweeter to play it using HERO than d20. If any of you remember, what kinds of things did you come up with for WoT?

[NuSoardGraphite]

Oh man. We had a sweet thread going!

We had rules for The One Power, Ogier, Angreal, Ter'angreal and Sa'angreal, Channelling and Burnout, cutting one off from the Source, Linking and Circles, the Blademaster Arts...basically The Whole Enchilada.

Practically the only thing we lacked were stats for specific characters and creatures.

Man, that was one kick ass thread. And now its GONE.

:(

Thats why I'm starting this thread here. I'm hoping the people who contributed to the thread on the last board will help in upgrading to the 5th edition...

[Nolgroth]

Originally posted to the Cybergames Wheel of Time discussion thread by Ghostnight. Please note that Ghostnight quoted Corvus to start the thread.


I think the "rolling end" thing works fairly well. It was the best way we could think of to simulate the weaves without things getting weird, while still trying to maintain balance.

For the wolf dream thing, my roommate and I came up with an Area of Effect mind link with wolves, which had the red. by range lim. To simulate an ability to contact any wolf(who was willing) in a specific area(the AA was to offset the "must have LoS" rule for Mindlink. The red. by range was added to simulate a distance related "signal degradation" which we sorta saw in the books.

We did Aiel with Martial arts. Warders had a small amount of regen. and a mindlink with their AesSedie. They also got a cloak with images 1 hex to simulate the color shifting cloak.(grants bonuses to stealth and concealment) Warders could buy combat levels or martial arts which ever they wanted. Exa. being a heron mark swordmaster was martial arts, being an archer or axe-weilder would be done with C. Levels.

Out of curiousity how do you do Ogier's singing abilities? We've set them up as powers you can buy (as per normal Fantasy Hero spells). We use extra time and incantations but not RSR. Seems to work well and gamewise the two "magic systems" are different enough to be distinct.

My roommates campaign is set just before the most recent book, so the one power is...(if you read the book you know, if you havent i dont want to spoil it).

Noone in the campaign is Aiel or a Warder. We've got 3 Aes'Sedia(sp?)(Green and Blue from the tower in exhile and Yellow from the Tower not in exhile), an Ogier and an Ashaman(me, and boy have I had fun going insane so far, none of the characters trusts my grasp on the world! But they need me for my traveling abilities, it's great!)

GN

And the original Corvus quote....


well... what we did was to have the Power using types buy each individual thread, for an increasing cost. We tend to seperate the magic using types from others by having them spend points on magesight, or somesuch. So, staying with that premise, we decided to charge it rather like perks: 2 pts for Spirit, then 3pts for the next, and on up until they spent 6 pts for the fourth. It got spendy, but we thought it did show how hard it was to have real ability in all for threads, as we thought the book was showing. Later books kind of blew that out, 'cause it seems everyone can toss off weaves like going to the bathroom, but we were playing early in the series. We also decided that the Perrin type guys, who were going into the Wolf Dream had to spend the 2 pts on Spirit, to denote that ability...

Now, I think your way might be better, having weaves that cost multiples of END if the caster had little ability in the element in question...

I'll try to post a message or two a day from the old thread so you can see what we did with the whole discussion.

[Nolgroth]

Originally posted by Corvus in the Cybergames Wheel of Time thread.


The game hasn't survived to this point. We didn't even have to worry about Ogier abilities. Maybe we'll go back when Jordan finishes the series...
Just before or just after the most recent? The change in environment is pretty dramatic, there. Hey, how did your guy get away from the Black Tower in the first place?

[Nolgroth]

Originally posted by Nu Soard Graphite in the Cybergames Wheel of Time thread.


've considered running a fantasy game based on WoT series. In any case, I'll probably use the magic system from WoT in any Fantasy Hero game I run (VPP with various skills based on the "weaves")
I was thinking that the amount of one power a person can draw in is the same no matter what (Nynaeve, being considered one of the most powerful Aes Sedai in history, might have a VPP of 90 points!) but it is their SKILL with a particular type of weave that determines what they can do with the power. This method takes a LOT of GM interpretation. The base skill roll should be figured up as follows. Strong skill ([Int/5]+11) Weak skill ([Int/5]+6) Spirit ([Int/5]+9) Thus, an average Int Male would have Earth(13-) Fire(13-) Water(8-) Wind(8-) Spirit(11-) and a female would have Earth(8-) Fire(8-) Water(13-) Wind(13-) and Spirit(11-). Each skill would cost 2pts per +1 to the roll and 5pts skill levels to "Power Weaves" must be distributed among the various skills as needed during a phase.
The actual weaves require skill rolls as outlined in the HSR/BBB under Variable Power Pools. The fact that the skill for the power pool is split between 5 different skills is a (-1) limitation. This counters the +1 advantage of 0phase activation. (it doesn't usualy seem to take much time for most weaves in WoT...although extra time can be taken for a bonus)

When one is weaving the OnePower (making a skill roll) the GM determines which skill is the base skill needed. Example: Rand is faced with two Trollocks and a Fade! He lost his sword some time back, so he decides to form a blade of pure flame, using the One Power. The GM determines that the base skill is Fire with Air being the secondary skill.
Secondary skills are rolled, complimentary to the Base skill. Use whatever method you have developed for dealing with Complimentary skills, however, for play balance reasons, I suggest you use the following method: Successful Complimentary skill gives +1 to base skill roll. Critical Success on Complimentary roll gives +2 to base skill roll. (critical success is rolling half or less of what you needed to succeed). A failure gives a -1 to base skill roll and a critical failure gives -2 to base skill roll. With this method, it allows someone with a high secondary skill to give them a better chance with a poor base skill, but not give them TOO much of a bonus.
Continue example: Rand has a Power Pool of 90 points. He wants to configure 60points of it into a 2D6HKA Ap/+1stunx (60act). His skill with Fire is 18- his skill with air is 14-. He makes his air roll (14 minus 6 is 8 or less) and rolls a 7, succeeding, giving him a +1 to his skill with Fire (19-) He makes his second roll with fire (19 minus 6 for 13-) and gets a 10. He succeeds in creating the fireblade and proceeds to chop his opponents to cinders!
Concievably, one could have multiple secondary skills to 1 base skill. (Healing a disease may require Base:water with secondary Air and Secondary: Fire (to control the fever). This is completely up to the GM, which can give the GM a headache, if his characters learn to rely on the One Power (a dangerous propisition for an Ashaman) but an imaginative and fast-thinking Gm should have no problem with this particular system.

[Nolgroth]

Please note that I'm only going to post the original messages as they relate to using the Hero system. The incidental messages I'll leave out.

Originally posted by Nu Soard Graphite in the Cybergames Wheel of Time thread.


Angreal, Ter'angreal and Sa'angreal.

Ter'angreal are just various magic weapons and items in the campaign. Some require the One Power to activate, some don't. depends on the items purpose (ancient weapons that use the One Power don't normaly require the One Power to use, though some really ancient weapons may have been built for use by the Gifted example: Callandor)

Angreal add points to the users VPP. Not as an Aid...just give the Angreal a point rating and this adds directly to the VPP of of the mage using it. Example, Rands "Little Fat Man" Angreal has a rating of 20pts and thus adds 20pts to Rands already impressive 90pt VPP, thus giving rand access to a power pool of 110 pts! The Angreal do not, however, give the user additional skill with the Power. Better have some skill levels! (Rand had this problem with Callandor..a VERY powerful Sa'angreal. He did not have the skill to use the amount of power that Callandor gave him and he was almost consumed by it) In general, Angreal should be limited to 10-30pts.

Sa'angreal: These are very powerful Angreal. They can significantly increase the level of power that a mage can wield and can often allow a single user of the Power to overcome even a circle of 6 or more. Sa'angreal should give bonuses to VPP of greater than 30pts. (a very powerful Sa'angreal like Callandor would give a bonus of 50-60pts to their VPP!)

does anyone know if Angreal and Sa'angreal can stack bonuses. I don't remember if that has ever been done, but I know that one can use an Angreal and then join into a circle. Thats some serious Power being thrown around!

Also, how would you guys simulate a "Circle"? I have a method worked out, but I'm curious to see what you guys come up with.

[Nolgroth]

Originally posted by Nolgroth in the Cybergames Wheel of Time thread


NSG,

You have some pretty interesting ideas for WoT-style magic. I myself made up a mechanic where each of the five elements had a rating from 1 to 10. Each point of rating would limit you to 10 AP of power in an effect. I also pre-defined what kind of powers fell under which element.

I ran the Power Pool as a combination Multipower/Variable Pool. With powers that you paid the slot for, the Skill Roll was made with no penalty. For instances where a person experimented with the Power, a Skill Roll was made with the normal penalty for the number of active points used.

For Circles, each person had to take an Aid to Channeling pool. With the proper power modifiers, the person in charge of the Circle received an aid from each member of the Circle to the Pool slot. For actual powers within the Aided Pool, I was somewhat lenient. If somebody had a slot for Fireball (for instance), I allowed them to increase the power of the slot by the same ratio that the pool increased. The AID became a Continuous Power. Essentially the initial Aid roll was maintained by the members of the
Circle by paying END each Turn. I also had the END cost of the powers used split among the Circle members.

I also allowed the artificial ratings for the five elements to be raised by two for the first additional member of the Circle and one for every member after that.

Keep in mind that I am very lenient with points if the effect is gained. I also tend to flex the rules a little. The system I used worked out really well at simulating the WoT channeling system. Let me know what you think.

[Nolgroth]

Originally posted by Nu Soard Graphite in the Cybergames Wheel of Time thread.


Not bad at all, Nogroth. It does simulate the way Jordan seems to have lain out his structure of Magic in the WoT. With women being weak in Earth and Fire, are limited to low points (rating 1-3) in those but unlimited in the others. Vice, versa with Males. Good system!

The way I was planning on dealing with a circle, is the most powerful is usualy chosen as leader of the circle (i.e. the other members of the circle, feed her their portion of the One Power) or the one with the most Skill with the necesary weaves. The Leader uses her full VPP. The other members of a circle must roll their skill with spirit (with a penalty based on how much of the One Power they intend to lend to the circle) to join the circle. The others in the circle add the amount of their VPP they wish to add to the circle together then divide by 5. Thus, a circle of 13 average full Aes Sedai (average VPP of 30pts) can combine to a total VPP of 102pts! ([12x30]/5+30) which means a circle of 13 average Aes Sedai barely exceeds Rands level of power by himself (VPP:90) which goes in line with about the power level represented in the books. (a circle of 11 exactly matches Rands VPP of 90)
The End is shared between all members of the circle evenly. Thus, because the End is so inexpensive, the increased End limitation is often applied to weaves created in a circle to use less of the One Power so that some Power is left in case the circle needs emergency defenses or counter magick. Example: a circle of 11 Aes Sedai (total VPP:90) are attempting to fight Lanfear (VPP:75) and have decided to erase her from reality and create Balefire. They configure their VPP to 1D6RKA(15) AVLD/body(+2.5) Autofire-5(+1/2) Transdimensional(+1/2) AE-1hex(+1/2) Continuous(+1) For a total of 90 active points: [note: the transdimensional is through time. The AVLD is vs Force Field]
Limitations they put on the Balefire blast is X2end(-1/2) no kb(-1/4) for a real cost of 51pts. Which leaves the circle with 39 points to configure into a defense if necesary. Lanfear dodges the initial blast of Balefire and recognizing it for what it is, decides enough is enough and uses all of her ability with the one power to psychicaly assualt the leader of the circle (70active points of Ego Blast!) One of the circle recognizes the weaves that Lanfear is creating and lets their leader know she is preparing a mind assualt using spirit. The leader decides to configure the 39 points of VPP left into 40pts of Mental Defens, AE-Radius Selective (to cover all the circle) which is 90 active, but with the limitations of Cost End(-1/2) and X4End(-1.5) for 30 real points (which leaves 9 pts of the pool free). Lanfear attacks with her 7D6 Ego blast, causing 28 pts of stun damage, but the Spirit shield weaved by the circle deflects it easily. The circle has spent 90 end on the Balefire and 36 end for the Mental Defense for a total of 126 end divided by 11 equals 11.4 end each (round down to 11, what the hell). The leader takes any fractions so she takes 15 end. Lanfear decides it not worth the trouble its going to take to fight a circle that large, so she travells 25km to the north and escapes.

The leader may pass control of a circle to someone else. She must make a Spirit skill roll in order to do so (-1/10pts in the pool) but may take extra time to do so, in order to gain a bonus. The person recieving the pool must also make a Spirit skill roll to gain control of the pool, but at a +1 bonus provided the previous leader succeeds in her Spirit skill roll (or +2 if her roll was a critical success) if either fail their skill roll, control fails to shift. If either criticaly fails their skill roll, bad, bad things happen (the circle crumbles, and must once again be established, and each memeber of the circle takes a 1D6 End drain per 10pts in the VPP!)
After a circle ends, each member of the circle must make an Ego check with a penalty equal to how much of the power they put into the circle (-1/10 as usual) if they fail this, they take a 1D6 end drain per 10pts of their pool that they put into the circle. Entering a circle can be tiring, but is necesary sometimes!

Remember, members of the same sex cannot make a circle that exceeds 13 members. in order to have more than 13 members, there must be at least one person of the opposite sex present to stand in as a link to the other half of the Source. This goes for every multiple of 13 achieved. With mixed, male/female circles, some truely impressive feats of the One Power can be achieved...though because of the animosity between Ashaman and Aes Sedai, this will almost never happen (however, the Forsaken, Black Ajah and Dark Friends don't have this predjudice!).

Just to scare the Bejeezus outta you, a mixed circle of 39 average users of the One Power can generate a VPP of 258 pts!!! ([30X38]/5+30).

Hmm...thats a bit much...do you think its too high?

Lets try this: First 13 is ([VppX12]/5+VPP)
The Second 13 are ([VppX13]/10)
The Third 13 are ([VppX13]/20)
and so on.
using that method, the aforementioned circle of 39 average users of the Power would achieve a VPP of 160.5pts. Thats a bit better.

Which method do you think is more representative of the Power increase of a Circle?

[Nolgroth]

Originally posted by Nu Soard Graphite in the Cybergames Wheel of Time thread.


Stilling:

Stilling would be a Transform (Major) that strips one of their ability to use the one power (I.e. Removes the Variable Power Pool!)

Reversing Stilling: This would also be a transform. However, at current, any Female trying to reverse the stilling of another Female can only return Half the Power pool. (note someone with a VPP of 30 before, will only have a VPP of 15 after being HEALED by a female) and the same is true for a Male attempting to reverse a Male that has been stilled. When one of the opposite Sex reverses the stilling, the VPP returns at full strength.

[Nolgroth]

Originally posted by Nu Soard Graphite in the Cybergames Wheel of Time thread.


The Lure of the One Power:

The One Power, like the Darkside of the Force, can be seductive, luring you to take in more and more of the Power...more Power than you can safely handle. If a person absorbs more of the One Power than they can handle, they can Still themsevles, harm themselves or even kill themselves! It can be handled in several ways.

When one first opens themself to the One Power in a day, make an Ego roll. Remember, the more powerful the person is (the Higher the Power Pool) the more powerful is the Lure of the One Power. No matter how much of their Power Pool they are attempting to use, the penalty to the Ego is based on their full Pool. The Penalty is -1/20 Act points in the pool. The Talent, Resistance gives a bonus to Ego rolls for this.
If the character fails their Ego roll, they pull in more of the power than they can handle and hurt themselves. They take a 1D6 stun drain for every 10pts in their pool PLUS 1D6 for every point they fail the roll by. On a critical failure(17) that translates to physical Damage (roll as Normal damage, but NND) On a critical failure(18) that translates to Dice of Transform in an effort to still the character!!! in anycase, on a roll of 18, the character is instantly knocked out, and will not be able to Channel for 3D6 days.

If this seems harsh to you, remember that Novices are not allowed to Channel for the first Year or so of their training without a teacher present. This is so that the teacher can be handy to cut the Novice off from the One Power if she pulls in too much and cannot stop herself. It has been mentioned that many Novices train themselves in secret, but just about as many end up stilling themselves or causing some form of permanent damage. Thus, Novices are not allowed to Channel on their own until such a time as they have learned proper control under the guidance of a full Aes Sedai (i.e. have gained a few levels of Resistance to aid in their struggle with the One Power) It is to be assumed that one must have a minimum of 5 levels of resistance before one can be raised to the level of Accepted, and be allowed to channel/train on ones own. This struggle also applies when attempting to take control of a Circle, thus only the most skilled, Strongwilled of Aes Sedai are allowed to lead a circle.

A Channeler can attempt to pull in more of the One Power than they can normaly handle (i.e. "Push" their Power Pool) but this is a risky proposition at best. After opening themselves up to the One Power, they must make an Ego roll, at the normal penalty. If they succeed, they gain +10 to the Pool +2pts per pt the Ego roll was made by. If they fail, treat as if they rolled a 17 (dice in physical Damage, no defense) if a 17 or 18 is rolled, they are automaticaly stilled. No passing GO, no collecting $200. (and up to the GM, Knocked into a Coma as well)

If you want to use more of the One Power, get an Angreal!!!

oh, and for Gm's that want to keep players on their toes. Make them roll for the Control during times of stress...the middle of a battle and they see a comrade hurt or killed. During a particularly disturbing revelation. If they are sick and attempting to Channel. If they are attempting to Channel for no good reason. This can be used as a GM control collar for those who find the proposition of giving PC's a VPP daunting.

[Nolgroth]

Originally posted by Nolgroth in the Cybergames Wheel of Time thread.


he Lure of the One Power:

I have to agree with you again on most points. I might not do an automatic Stilling when drawing in too much of the power, but I would at least treat it as a double strength transform.

[Nolgroth]

Originally posted by Ghostnight in the Cybergames Wheel of Time thread.


Sorry for the delay in posting...

In my roommates campaign(which takes place before the last book), Rand had made an arrangement with some of the borderlands forts to provide assistance in "holding back the blight". As a result Taim has sent my character to Fal Dara. The campaign just started but there was a recent shadowspawn attack where an ancient mirror was stolen. The mirror turned out to be an Angreal which the castle's lord hadnt known about, now the group is running through the Ways(trying to avoind the blackwind) following the mydryall(sp?) who stole the mirror.

Nu Soard, we simulated angreal, sa'angreal, and circle as aids to all powers in the power pool. With angreal and sa'angreal we used 0end, cont. and a focus (if i remeber right, I'm at work right now) and for circles everyone in the circle places a similar aid in their pool and aids the leader of the circle. The aid has limitations like only X number of men vs women, must be in circle, etc...

I dont remember how stilling was down, but the transform seems right... For shielding we opted to break the rules a little and made a drain vs the control cost of the power pool. Not exactly kosher by the rules but it works quite well without making it too easy or too hard.

We had thought about using different skill rolls for each weave but since most of our players are new to the Hero system we opted for just a "rolling end" type of setup. This way we can generate a base weave, and then the players can scale it to the power level they want. Exa. a Fireball weave would be written up 1d6exp. is 8act pts/3 real pts and 1 end male, 2 end female. If you had a 30pt pool(average for the camp.) you could do upto 4d6exp. for approx 30act pts, and 15 real with it costing 3 end male/6 female.

But i'll tell you Balefire was a tough one without having todo a huge amount of killing damage. We did X-D Move UvO, AA line, Trans Dim.(to kill them in the past). Where did we send them? Out of the pattern! My roommate, who is new to the system looked at me REALLY funny when I suggested this...

GN

[Nolgroth]

Well, that's enough for today. I'll finish posting the messages tomorrow sometime. Not all is lost NuSoard.

[ShadowRaptor]

keep posting them, we need them (they gave me something good to read)...

[Nolgroth]

Originally posted by Malhanon in the Cybergames Wheel of Time thread.


NSG great system ideas. My freinds and myself have been tossing around ideas on how to make this work.

My only two comments, 1) I think the skill rolls shouold not be complimentary to each other when channeling multiple elements. You should have to make multiple skill rolls, fail one, fail the whole thing.
2) I am wondering if the power scale is correct, after reading what Rand can do, I don't think 90 pts is enough. He did create an entire mountain over his head in a past life.

Any ideas on how powerful the Two giant statue sa'angreals are (ie how much of + to vpp)?

[Nolgroth]

Originally posted by Nu Soard Graphite in the Cybergames Wheel of Time thread.


That was just a number I threw out as I was typing. I think it should be close to 90, but no more than 120. (120 is a LOT)

I thought about the necesity to roll multiple skills depending on what you want to accomplish, but I figured for most tasks, there would be a controlling skill, and the others could be complimentary if necesary. This is to cut down on the number of rolls. If a player WANTS to roll a complimentary roll, then they can, but if they are handling small amounts of power, it probably wouldn't be necesary.

The Giant Statues? I don't even want to attempt a guess! I'm currently reading Winter's Heart...so when I'm done, I should be able to tell you. Right now..I don't really know. Maybe +120? (Gack!) Do they require a Circle to control them, or can a single person control them? I haven't gotten that far in the book yet.

[Nolgroth]

Originally posted by Nu Soard Graphite in the Cybergames Wheel of Time thread.


Ghostnight:

I like your idea about draining the control cost for cutting someone off from the source. It seems to be pretty easy to cut someone off from the source, provided they are about the same or lower power level than you are. The points are about right. (actualy, the Supress power simulates that better than Drain does, because Suppress is automaticaly a continuing power, as long as one pays end to keep a power suppressed, which is in line whith how the WoT deals with cutting Channelers off from the Source)

An average Channeler (VPP 30) can generate a 6D6 suppress (average roll is 21) which can easily suppress the VPP of another average channeler (Control cost 15) but absolutely cannot suppress the VPP of someone of Rands level of power (Control cost 45) which means that a circle is required to cut Rand off from the source!

Now, in the WoT novels, it seemed that someone who was cut off from the source can "Fight" to try to reach the source. The text mentions several instances of those who have been cut off, poking at the sheild that is cutting them off, looking for a way through to the Source. To simulate that, use this system.

Roll a number of Dice equal to the Control cost/5 (Rand would roll 9D6) and roll a contest vs the Suppress, count the body (exactly like a contest of Str), if the person being sheilded looses, they remain cut off from the source, if they win, however, they have broken through the sheild, and can touch the source.

[Nolgroth]

Originally posted by Ghostnight in the Cybergames Wheel of Time thread. In the original message, Ghostnight quoted portions of Nu Soard Graphite's previous post. Quotes left out for brevity.


Doh, my bad. I looked at the campaign material when I got home. We did use something similar to surpress... Dispel it's all or nothing, then we just made it continous. This let someone keep the shield up and shielding was all or nothing... Of course this gives a 5d6 continous dispel for your avg 30pt pool, which can easily shield another 30pt pool (avg. on 5d6 17, control cost of 30pt pool 15pts.) If your quick enough.


RE: Fighting to regain the source.


My roommate and I thought about this and figured(since we are already breaking the rules, why not break some more ) you could push your pool control cost, if your push suceeded in putting your pool pts over the dispel...you were free, otherwise you "up a creek without a paddle".

[Nolgroth]

Originally posted by Corvus in the Cybergames Wheel of Time thread.


When Rand escaped his shielding in that chest (I forget which book), he was looking for what was described as "hardpoints", which represented the actual individuals holding the shield. When he crushed a couple of them escaping, he found that he'd stilled the Aes Sedai in question. When Nynaeve was roped into teaching the WindRunners (or whatever they're called), and the one girl had her shielded, she also found a hardpoint, but, not knowing what it was, she bypassed it. It sounds like there is some direct conflict to keeping someone shielded, they just haven't fully discovered it, yet, except for Rand. Also, how would you block the shielding attempt, a la Nynaeve and Moghedien in Tanchico?

[Nolgroth]

Originally posted by Nolgroth in the Cybergames Wheel of Time thread. In the original message, I quoted Corvus. Quote left out for brevity.


Sounds like you could simulate that with Find Weakness (as a power) vs. Shielding, with the Limitation Extra Time. If you make the Find Weakness roll, the person Shielding you only has half the points available. How else would you do it?

I imagine the battle between Nyneave and Moghedien would be Suppress (Shielding) versus Power Defense (blocking the Shield) with the Limitations Concentrate 1/2 DCV and Costs END. Any other ideas?

[Nolgroth]

Originally posted by Nu Soard Graphite in the Cybergames Wheel of Time thread.


GhostNight:

Dispell works also, but you'd have to put continuous on it (making it cost 6pts per D6) so that they stay cut off from the source. Suppress already has continuous built in (as long as the End is paid) thats why I suggested Suppress...just put a small limitation on it, to make it all or nothing (either the suppress exceeds the control cost, and cuts them from the source, or it doesn't)

Corvus:

Thats exactly what I was trying to represent when I suggested the Control cost Vs Suppress "contest" of body.
The whole stilling thing? Have whoever is sheilding the person who escaped make a "Control" roll as defined in my post about drawing in too much of the one power. On a critical failure, roll the Stilling dice!

Nolgroth:
I agree about blocking an attempt at shielding. Configure some of the Power Pool to Power Defense.

[Nolgroth]

Originally posted by CosmoEmeritus in the Cybergames Wheel of Time thread.


If I may, the description Jordan gives to such conflicts, i.e. Nynaeve vs. Moghedien, seems more like that of a martial arts match. Perhaps this is more accurately prototyped with some kind of ECV vs. ECV combat? Mystic Masters has some examples of this kind of combat I believe.

[Nolgroth]

Originally posted by Nolgroth in the Cybergames Wheel of Time thread.


CosmosEmeritus,

Perhaps, you are correct, but after thinking on the scene more, it was a straight Suppress vs VPP against Suppress vs VPP. Both were trying to cut the other off from the Source.

On a different note, I imagine the Channeling Clause that states "Thirteen dark brothers, thirteen dark sisters, and thirteen myrdraal can turn a channeler from the Light to the Shadow" is represented by a Major Transform. The modifier Requires a Circle of 13 Males,13 Females,and 13 Fades would be appropriate. The question I have is ; Would you require a PC channeler to become an NPC if he/she was changed to the Shadow?

[Nolgroth]

Originally posted by Nolgroth in the Cybergames Wheel of Time thread.


On a different note, I would like to see a complete martial art based on the Blademaster maneuvers described in the books. I imagine some of the maneuvers would fall into the Powers category described by Nu Soard Graphite in another thread.

I only wish Robert Jordan was more explicit in his descriptions of the maneuvers. The poetic names of the maneuvers are quite cool though.

Similarly, there must be a martial art based upon Mat's ashandarei. Of course, naginata-jutsu could easily be substituted. I think the UMA has that art.

Perrin, I think, just has a whole lot of skill levels with the axe.

Off Topic: Do you think Rand or Lan is a better Blademaster (not counting Rand using the Source in the battle)?

[Nolgroth]

Originally posted by Nu Soard Graphite in the Cybergames Wheel of Time thread.


Good idea Nolgroth. I was thinking the exact same thing myself.

Yeah, I would probably base Mat's martial abilities on Naginata-jutsu from the UMA. It would cover his weapon quite nicely. he also has quite a few skill levels and probably some extra DC with the weapon (to represent his memories)

Rand VS Lan? I dunno. Rand has more raw talent, but Lan is WAY more experienced. I would give Rand a higher Dex, but Lan would have more skill levels and probably more maneuvers. Rand is no slouch though, he did beat that Seanchan blademaster without using the source...so his skill has grown considerably.

I agree with the names of the maneuvers. Thats why I'm sure that Rober Jordan adopted Kenjutsu maneuvers to his world setting, because many Kenjutsu styles have equaly poetic names (I've seen manuevers named: Full moon cut or Moonlight cut, Flying Swallow slash, 4 ways cutting, Soaring Lark etc. These are actual Kenjutsu Kumitachi) and evidenced by "Sheathing the Sword" which is the WoT equivalent to Japanese Seppuku.

Even the names of the Kenjutsu styles are elegant. Shinkage Ryu (Heart Reflection style, or God Shadow style) Shinto Seishin Ryu (Tranquil Heart style) Niten Ichi Ryu (Two Hearts as One style). See what I mean?

Perhaps, some time I will design what I think is a good representation of the sword styles found in the Wheel of Time. Right now, I am concentrating on detailing various Kenjutsu styles so I can send it to Bruce to put in Digital Hero....when he finds time to update the webpage, that is...

[Nolgroth]

There was a couple of messages that were off-topic and dealing with kenjutsu maneuvers. The following message picked back up on the topic.

Originally posted by Nolgroth in the Cybergames Wheel of Time thread.


have a question/topic for this thread. How would you all do warders? More specifically, how would you
a) Do the effects of the warder bond.
b) Structure the bond to be an actual power.
c) Buy the warder abilities themselves.

Would you make either the Aes Sedai or the warder candidate pay for the new abilities with exp?

I have some ideas myself, but I want to hear your opinions. I'll post mine in another message.

[Nolgroth]

Originally posted by Nolgroth in the Cybergames Wheel of Time thread.


Okay now that I have posted the question, here are my answers. Please feel free to bash them to bits, especially the rules aspects. If you have a better way, I would like to hear it.

For the first question, the bond would be simulated by a Mind Link bought as a defined group (Aes Sedai to Warder(s)). That way an Aes Sedai could have multiple warders. The books never specify if multiple warders feel each others conditions, location, etc through the bond.

I would tack on a couple of modifiers such as 0 End, Persistent, Always On, Only to determine location, general state of health, emotional state (-1/2) and Aes Sedai can block bond temporarily (+1/4)

In addition, I would make the Aes Sedai and Warder take either a Susceptability or Physical Limitation so that if one were killed, the other would take an immediate Ego attack through the bond.

Warders would also have a Psychological Limitation: Loses interest in living if Aes Sedai is killed, and a Vulnerability x2 effect from Aes Sedai Compulsion (mind control).

On to the next question. This is a pretty straighforward Major Transformation. The trick is to have enough power to complete the bond instantly. The problem with that is with the warder candidate's (presumably) high Body attribute. Would you allow willing candidates to use just their Body rating when determing the effects of the Transform?

Another way would be the "special effect" transformation. It just happens and the special effect is that the Aes Sedai channels a wee bit and voila' instant warder. Now what about unwilling recipients? I'm sure that Alanna should have had a bitch of a time bonding Rand. Even if he was surprised by the bond. Thoughts?

The warder abilities themselves would be easy. They would gain Sense Shadowspawn, 360'. A boost to End, Stun and Recovery. I don't think Regeneration would be appropriate to represent the accelerated healing. It just didn't seem that fast. Besides, with Healing it wouldn't be entirely necessary. Am I missing anything?

As far as where the points come from, this is entirely dependant on the individual GM. I would say that the points from the Disadadvantages would be used to offset the cost of the Bond to both parties. If any excess points were available, then they would be lost. If you wanted to be a rules stickler, then you might make the two parties save up the exp. Finally, you could just say that the Transformation power (bond) grants them the abilities and disadvantages at 0 cost. I personally don't like the last because it sets a bad precedent for future games.

As always, these are just ideas roaming in my head and I would like to hear yours. I have not playtested these ideas, so YMMV.

[Nolgroth]

Originally posted by Nu Soard Graphite in the Cybergames Wheel of Time thread.


Not too shabby Nolgroth. There's only a few things I would do differently.

First of all, Mind link cannot be used to track. (of course, if thats how you want to handle mind-link, then go right ahead) thats what Mind Scan is for....but Mind scan isn't quite right to simulate the Warders ability to find his Aes Sedai. I'd make that into a Detect Bonded/Sense/360^/no range penalty (22pts)

Link it to the Mindlink so that if the mindlink is suppressed or dispelled the detect turns off as well.

I agree about giving Warders extra Stun/End/Rec. (maybe 10pts of each for +10stun/+20End/+5Rec) this, however does not go away if the Bond is disturbed, but will go away if the bond is destroyed (i.e. Transformed off)

The Aes Sedia can purposfully attempt to suppress the Link (just Suppress the Mind Link and the tracking ability goes with it) so that her Warder cannot find her. (this is done in Winters Heart)

I agree that the Psychological and Vulnerability disadvantages can be used to justify/offset the cost of the new abilities.

I would also use Transform to simulate generating the mind link, however, I would use Ego rather than Body for determining when the bond sets in. Cumulative Transform is recommended. I would consider this a Minor transform, since this does not considerably change the target, merely augment it. The effect that will turn it off is the Death of the Aes Sedai that the target is bonded to.

Here's how it breaks down:

Aes Sedai gains:

Mind Link with Warder(s) [10pts]
When an Aes Sedai bonds with a new warder she has to pay an additional 5pts to cover additional minds (2 warders is +5pts. 4 warders for another +5 pts 8 warders for another +5pts etc)

Psychological disadvantage: Attatched to Warder (10pts)

Cost to Aes Sedai (0pts)

Warder Gains:

Mind Link w/Aes Sedai: 5pts.

+10Stun (10pts)
+20End (10pts)
+5Rec (10pts)

Sense Shadowspawn: Detect/Sense/360^ [15pts]

Sense Aes Sedai (Direction and distance) Detect/Sense/360^/No range mod: 22pts

72pts

Psychological Disad: Must protect Aes Sedai (total/Common) [25pts]

DNPC: Aes Sedai (as powerful/14-) [10pts]

Watched: By White Tower (More powerful/NCI/11-) [12pts]

Psychological Disad: Must obey Aes Sedai's orders (Very common/Strong) [20pts]

Reputation: 8- (Warders are known badasses, also they are known to travel with Aes Sedai. This is only 8- because if they are by themselves, they usualy are mistaken for normal warrior or mercenary) [5pts]

Total points 72.

Cost to Warder: 0pts!

Of course, this is up to interpretation by individual GM's as usual.

[Nolgroth]

Originally posted by Nolgroth in the Cybergames Wheel of Time thread.


Nu Soard Graphite,
Well done. I was not thinking of the additional disadvantages that go along with being a Warder (Watched, Reputation, etc).
After re-reading Mind Link (which I should have done before the last post) I think that it is sufficient to do the job without the Sense. I would tack on a limitation for the Warder; Cannot Block Link.

Basically it would look like this

Aes Sedai
Mind Link with Warder (additional points for additional Warders). Any distance (+5). Only to sense general state of health, emotional state and general direction (-1/4).
Base Cost: 10+ After Modifiers: 8

Warder
Mind Link with Aes Sedai. Any Distance (+5). Only to sense general state of health, emotional state and general direction (-1/4), Warder cannot block link (-1/4).
Base Cost: 10 After Modifiers: 7

That is my take on the matter. I would still say that the Warder is Vulnerable to Aes Sedai Compulsion as well. Since mental attacks through the Mind Link are at 0 ECV (for the Warder), that may be enough to simulate that Vulnerability.

[Nolgroth]

Originally posted by Nolgroth in the Cybergames Wheel of Time thread.


On a similar note, what other Disadvantages would you apply to Aes Sedai themselves? Some examples are:

-Distinctive Features: Ageless Appearance (Easily Concealable, Causes Major Reaction or Prejudice)

-Reputation 11- (Tar Valon Witch, Extreme)

(Whether they are respected or hated, they always seem to cause a great fuss).

-Watched by White Tower (11-, More Pow, NCI)

-Physical Limitations: Cannot Lie, Cannot use the One Power as a weapon except against Shadowspawn and in defense of herself, other Aes Sedai, or her Warder, and Cannot make weapons with the One Power.

(Since the Three Oaths cannot be disobeyed after the Aes Sedai swears upon the Oath Rod, I thought they should be Physical Limitations).

As an alternative to the Watched being 11-, you can simulate the progression of trust from Novice to Sister pretty easily. Novice 14-, Accepted 11-, and Aes Sedai 8-. As an interesting aside, a Sitter of the Hall, Keeper of the Chronicles and/or Amrylin Seat would probably be watched as closely as a Novice or Accepted. The downside to political influence.

Any thoughts on the matter?

[Nolgroth]

Originally posted by Nu Soard Graphite in the Cybergames Wheel of Time thread.


Great breakdown on the Disads of an Aes Sedai!

Here's some additional disads that are typical of women of specific Ajah...

Red: Psychological Disad: Hates men who channel (uncommon/strong)[10pts]

Blue: Psychological Disad: Curiosity (Common/Moderate) [10pts]

Green: Psychological Disad: Permiscuous (Common/moderate) [10pts]

Yellow: Psychological Disad: Cannot ignore wounded (uncommon/strong) [10pts]

Brown: Psychological Disad: Distracted (common/moderate) [10pts] note-this means that Brown's generaly are contemplating some acedemic puzzle and often miss things that are obvious to others. They should make perception rolls to notice things that would normaly be obvious...

White: Psychological Disad: Self Important (common/moderate) [10pts] note-this means that Whites normaly see themselves as having a higer purpose (studying the prophecies etc) than those of others.

Grey: Psychological Disad: Aloof (common/Moderate) [10pts] note-this disad means that the Grey will oftentimes not involve themselves in matters just to not be seen taking a side. This is only a Moderate level, so if it is something truely important, they will choose a side based on the information they posses.

Note, that these aren't set in stone, but merely the "stereotype" assosciated with each particular Ajah. Certain personality types generaly pick the Ajah that most suits them (Such as Nynaeve's decision to pick Yellow because of her background as a Wisdom) but by no means does this mean every member of a particular Ajah acts in the said manner (Elayne picked the Green, simply because she felt that it would be less unsusual because she planned to have multiple Warders, after bonding Birgitte)

For those who are interested, a great WOT site that I have found is located at:

http://64.128.72.85/~ewot/

Check it out. Its like a MASSIVE encyclopedia. Its a very well done site.

[Nolgroth]

Originally posted by Nolgroth in the Cybergames Wheel of Time thread.


Okay, I've been pretty busy coming up with questions. Thanks for answering NuSoard Graphite. I do have another one (for now).

What about Ogier and Ogier abilities and restrictions?

Other than massive size and strength, Loial seemed to be a Singer (or more precisely Treesinger). The only time we actually got to "see" him perform this ability is when Rand, the thief-taker (be darned if I could remember his name) and Loial were in the alternate world where they met Selene (Lanfear). There, he sung a staff out of a tree.

There are numerous other references to Sung Wood. The inn that Moiraine, Lan, Perrin, and Loial stayed at had a Sung Wood bed. (They were chasing Rand. This was where Perrin freed Gaul and met Faile). Loial has made several references to Singers along the way.

So my question is; How do you define a Treesinger's abilities?

My answer is a Minor Transformation. Sung Wood can take many forms, apparently, and also may have properties that differentiate it from normal wood, but it is still basically just changing the shape of wood.

I see no problem with using Treesinging to create staves or axe handles. At best, I would give them 1 DEF higher than normal hard wood. It just doesn't strike me as something that can be abused if the GM is on his toes. There is only so much wood that a tree can give up and survive.

In EotW, Loial sang to the sapling created after the Green Man passed on. He indicated that it would remain pure even when the Blight overtook the rest of the area around it. To me this is a special effect, as it would not have any lasting mechanical effect in the game. It might prove to be one of those legendary acts that the next age refers to, but other than that I see no long-term effects to worry about.

The other ability is to Sense or Detect Sung Wood. Either Detect or Sense seems appropriate and I do not remember the dialogue enough to remember if Loial immediately knew his bed was Sung Wood or if he had to examine it. Given Mr. Jordan's tendency to make detection of abnormal abilities more like a Sense, that is the way I would define it.

Now, the dependance of stedding for the Ogier is a lot harder to define. If it is defined as anything more than a special effect, the point value from a Dependancy or Susceptability would be 0. Perhaps a low point Physical Limitation. Personally I would simply let all players running Ogier know that they had to return to the stedding after 'x' number of game months.

On to a cultural examination. Ogier are true to a given promise, even to the point of placing themselves in great physical danger. The Ogier of Illian left without completing their work, which leaves some doubt as to the absoluteness of that statement. Perhaps Loial, being young and not so pessimistic as an older Ogier, might have tried to live up to the reputation of stalwart loyalty. Maybe there is an escape clause somewhere, such as non-payment of fees, that allowed the Illian Ogier to remove themselves from the city.

Anyway, here are my rules interpretations.

Treesinging
2D6 Minor Transformation: Living Tree to Sung Wood item of any shape. [Cumulative (+1/2), Limited Class of Objects (+1/4), Concentrate 1/2 DVC (-1/4), Incantations 1/4), Extra Time: 1 minute (-1 1/2)]
Active Points: 17 Real Cost: 6

Sense Sung Wood
Detect (as Sense)
Active Points: 5 Real Cost: 5

I have not defined Loial's actions in the Blight, as it seemed more of a special effect than a truly useful power.

As a final note, as a GM I would add +1 DEF to whatever type of wood was being Sung. It is a minor enough bonus that it shouldn't have a great deal of effect.

As part of the Ogier culture, I would encourage or require the two Psychological Limitations below.

Protective of Trees. Will not intentionally harm a tree by any means unless there is grave need (Common, Strong)

Always Keeps Word. Will risk injury or death to keep his oath. Will only break oath if he is betrayed by the person he is sworn to. (Very Common, Total).

That about sums it up. I would really like to hear your thoughts on the matter. Sorry about the epic length posts recently.

[Nolgroth]

Originally posted by Nolgroth in the Cybergames Wheel of Time thread.


Here's yet another one. I really need to get a life.

To further differentiate between male and female channelers, I would base the male Channeling skill on Ego and the females' on Presence.

How would you simulate the ability to "tie off" a weave? Change the pool so the power has the Uncontrolled and Continuous Advantages? This is especially important when someone is Shielded for long periods of time.

I would define a Weave that has been tied off as so:

<Power> (Continuous, Uncontrolled, Reduced END; 0 END, Persistent) The power would still count towards the points in the Channeling pool and/or the maximum number of different Weaves (powers) the character can have active (usually INT/5)

[Nolgroth]

Well folks, that's the extent of what I had saved. After the last message I had, there were probably between five to ten more posts (mostly from Nu Soard Graphite) concerning Blademastery as a martial art. I wish that I had saved them, but I never got around to saving the page again. Sorry NuSoard.

Now that the old stuff is there (and I've had a chance to read it again) I will probably have some revisions to my older ideas and maybe even some new ideas to boot. Hope you all enjoyed the little glimpse into the past.

[Mavnn]

Damn! It's a pity you don't have NuSoard's blademaster posts - they were a great example of using HERO's martial arts system, giving lots of forms with a small number of martial maneuvers. I kept on meaning to save them to use as flavour text in games.

"Your opponent starts the flowing arcs of the 'Dragonfly's Beating Wings' Defense." - GM
"That's a Defensive Block with skill levels in DCV normally followed by a counter strike, right?" - Player
"Make an Analysis Skill roll and hope you beat his feint..." -GM

Michael

[NuSoardGraphite]

You da man, Nolgroth!

Now that (most of) the old messages are posted here, any opinions? Gripes? Additions?

I'll be thinking of some more to add in the days ahead (and of course will be updating the Blademaster arts to the 5th edition)

Thanks again Nolgroth.

[Nolgroth]

Mavnn,
I too wish that I had foresight enough to save those messages before the old message boards crashed. It sounds as if the 5th edition has changed some of the martial arts stuff, but at least it would have given NuSoardGraphite some prototypes to work from.


NuSoardGraphite,
It was my pleasure to post those messages. We had a really good thread going back then. Usually, I try to save the threads that get me interested. I lost a couple of them with a data crash, but this one I managed to back up to CD-ROM before the loss. I'm glad you appreciate it.

[ShadowRaptor]

I am glad you had the forsigith to save the thread. Thanks a lot.

[Xandarr]

Hey NSG... I didn't keep the whole thread, but I did keep all the maneuvers list that you had posted, which went up to L the last time I was able to read the old boards. I'll post them here. Keep in mind these are from a .txt file, but I did try to add respectable formatting, but if you want to copy and clean them up, then repost, they're all yours.

Of course, they always were. I was just hanging onto them for you. :)


Apple Blossoms in the Wind:
((Attack)):
Maneuver: Offensive Strike(-2/+1/+2)
Hit Location: 1D6+3(-4)
Skill Levels: Split OCV/DC
Note: An attempt at chopping the head/neck, though a glancing blow will usualy hit the shoulder (should treat a roll of 8 as shoulder)

((Defense)):
Maneuver: Martial Block(+2/+2/-)
Hit Location: N/A
Skill Levels: All to OCV
Note: Active defense vs Multiple attackers

Arc of the Moon
((Attack)):
Maneuver: Sacrifice Strike(+1/-2/+2)
Hit Location: 2D6+4(-1)
Skill Levels: To OCV/DC
Note: Intention is to sever Stomach/vitals or Chest. Also, good VS mounted opponents (attack arcs upward from kneeled to standing position)

((Defense)):
Maneuver: Defensive block(+1/+3/-)
Hit Location: N/A
Skill Levels: Split between OCV/DCV
Note: wide swing of blade, meant to keep opponent at bay more than an actual parry (but can be used to parry) Skill levels should be placed in DCV first, then OCV if swordsman posses enough levels.

Black Pebbles on Snow
((Attack)):
Maneuver: Martial Strike(+0/+2/+1)
Hit Location: 11 (-3)
Skill Levels: Split between OCV/DCV
Note: A tuck and roll into a mid-level slash. Requires an acrobatics roll. Acrobatics bonus should be put to DCV.

((Defense)):
Maneuver: Martial Dodge(+0/+5/-) Or Defensive block(+1/+3/-)
Hit Location: N/A
Skill Levels: DCV of course
Note: Used vs multiple opponents. The tuck and roll can be used to dodge. The block version can be used against multiple opponents, also to set up a counter-attack against one of the opponents next phase (the counter-attack is usualy a kick technique)

Boar Rushes Downhill
((Attack)):
Maneuver: Offensive Strike(-2/+1/+2)
Hit Location: 2D6+1(-2)
Skill Levels: to OCV
Note: A vertical slash. See also Boar rushes down the Mountain.

((Defense)):
Maneuver: Martial Block(+2/+2/-)
Hit Location: N/A
Skill Levels: OCV
Note: Pretty standard. Normaly used to counter an upswinging blade.

Boar Rushes Down the Mountain
((Attack))
Maneuver: Sacrifice Strike(+1/-2/+2)
Hit Location: 2D6+1(-2)
Skill Levels: to DC. Odd levels to OCV.
Note: This is the "all out attack" version of Boar Rushes Downhill. It will leave one open to counter attack, so use wisely. If the technique connects, it should cleave one's opponent in two, however.

((Defense)):
Maneuver: Martial Block(+2/+2/-)
Hit Location: N/A
Skill Levels: To OCV
Note: Same as Boar Rushes Downhill. GM's might want to apply weapon damage on a successful block with this mighty blow.

Bundling Straw
((Attack)):
Maneuver: Fast Strike(+2/+0/+1)
Hit Location: 1D6+3(-4)
Skill Levels: to OCV
Note: A swordsman with enough skill levels should just go ahead and aim for location-3(head) or 4(face)

((Defense)):
Maneuver: Fast Strike(+2/+0/+1)
Hit Location: 1D6+3(-4)
Skill Levels: to OCV
Note: Used "defensively" this starts with a "Feint" attack. If the opponent falls for the Feint (use sleight of hand) punch them in the face with the pommel of the sword. (Str+2D6 damage) Feint maneuvers are good for forcing opponents to do things they might not ordinarily do. A successful feint may cause an opponent to block rather than attack. (use a perception roll to see if they fall for the feint maneuver)

Cat Crossing the Courtyard
This is more a posture/movement technique than an attack or defense maneuver. If someone is using Cat Crossing the Courtyard, they alert and ready to attack/defend at any moment...thus, Skill levels should be split between OCV and DCV when using Cat Crossing the Courtyard in anticipation of combat. This also denotes someone moving with Combat speed rather than Non-combat speed. DCV is full and they should gain a +1 Perception bonus to check for suprise (they are ALERT)

Cat Dances on the Wall
((Attack)):
Maneuver: Fast Strike(+2/+0/+1)
Hit Location: 2D6+1(-2)
Skill Levels: split OCV/DCV
Note: A complicated spinning move.

((Defense)):
Maneuver: Martial Dodge(+0/+5/-)
Hit Location: N/A
Skill Levels: to DCV
Note: Used to keep opponent at bay. Next phase, use feint maneuver to fake attack on current opponent and switch opponents last minute. Great suprise move.

Cat on Hotstand
((Attack)):
Maneuver: Martial Strike(+0/+2/+1)
Hit Location: 2D6+4(-1)
Skill Levels: Split OCV/DCV
Note: Often follows Apple Blossoms in the Wind.

((Defense)):
Maneuver: Half phase move(n/a)
Hit Location: N/A
Skill Levels: ? (depends)
Note: this is a half phase move to get into position to your opponents flank. Be advised that this move opens you up for an attack for a moment, however, after the move is finished, one may launch an attack at the opponents flank (note with this move, one gives initiative to their opponent, but after opponent has acted, they gain the bonus for attacking the opponent from behind)

Courtier Taps his Fan
((Attack)):
Maneuver: Fast Strike(+2/+0/+1)
Hit Location: 1D6+3(-4)
Skill Levels: Split OCV/DC
Note: Use a Feint maneuver first...this simulates knocking your opponents blade to the side. Basicaly a more complicated version of Bundling Straw

((Defense)):
Maneuver: Martial Block(+2/+2/-)
Hit Location: N/A
Skill Levels: OCV
Note: Use the block to knock an opponents attack aside. Follow up next phase with Bundling Straw.

Creeper Embraces the Oak
((Attack)):
Maneuver: Defensive Strike(+1/+3/+0)
Hit Location: 2D6+4(-1)
Skill Levels: to DCV
Note: Use a half phase move to circle opponent. A series of short thrusts to keep opponent at bay. (usualy only one or two will connect)

((Defense)):
Maneuver: Defensive Block(+1/+3/-)
Hit Location: N/A
Skill Levels: to DCV
Note: Half move to circle opponent. Keep moving blade from high to low gaurd to keep opponent guessing. Opponent should be confused on how to attack (thus the high DCV)

Cutting the Clouds
((Attack)):
Maneuver: Fast Strike(+2/+0/+1)
Hit Location: 6(-6)
Skill Levels: to OCV
Note: This move is used if the blades are locked (during a Weapon Bind). If the attacker initiated the bind, he may use this technique anytime thereafter, as long as his opponent does not break the bind before. If one is the defender in a weapon bind, one may use this technique immediately after breaking the bind. This may make a great suprise move. Give opponent a perception roll to see if they notice...if they fail give the attacker +1 to OCV/2pts they fail by (this goes toward cancelling some of that high OCV penalty to hit the wrist) Basicaly, twisting the blades so that one hits the opponents wrists. Ouch! (Vader used this on Luke in Empire)

((Defense)):
Maneuver: Martial Block(+2/+2/-)
Hit Location: N/A
Skill Levels: Split OCV/DCV
Note: normally used to defend against an opponent who is on higher ground (possibly mounted)

Thats all for now. (Much) more later!


And here's another....



Actually, its not as expensive as you might think. Basically, each Sword Form is open to someone provided they know the required maneuvers and skills.
Example would be, if a Swordsman had the Offensive Strike maneuver with their sword, they would be able to use:

Apple Blossoms in the Wind
Boar Rushes Downhill

Someone with the Fast Strike maneuver would be able to use:
Bundling Straw
Cat Dances on the Wall
Courtier Taps his Fan
Cutting the Clouds

Someone with Martial Block could use:
Apple Blossoms in the Wind
Boar Rushes Downhill
Boar Rushes Down the Mountain
Courtier Taps his Fan
Cutting the Clouds.

Of course, to be able to use a specific Sword Form, one must have both the Offensive maneuver and Defensive maneuver required to completely know the Form.

All a Form does is decide how the Skill levels are to be spent and the type of Hit Location modifier that is to be used (if any).

Also, with this specific system in use, an Analyze Style skill roll will go a long way toward giving a character a good idea of what attack or defense to use against their opponent.

Player: "I've made my Analyze Style roll by 3pts"
GM: "Okay. It looks like your opponent is preparing to use Arc of the Moon That means it is going to come toward your midsection and has a High OCV and potentially high damage."
Player: "Okay. I'll use Boar Rushes Downhill to block"
GM: "Good! That move is a good counter to Arc of the Moon so I'll give you a bonus of +1 to your OCV to block because you anticipated his action well"
Player: "Kick ass!"

See what I mean?

It also provides a pretty good aid (since you know what the Form looks like when being preformed) to help visualize the combat.

If anyone has anything they feel they can add to it, please post!


And one more....



Here is the 2cnd part of my list of Sword Forms from The Wheel of Time translated to Hero System terms.


Dandelion in the Wind
((Attack)):
Maneuver: Counterstrike (+2/+2/+1)
Hit Location: 5 (-8)
Skill Levels: All to OCV
Notes: This Form must follow a successful block. Automatically aims for the throat (-8!) for X2 body and X5 stun multiplier. The hit penalty may seem severe, but remember, the +2OCV bonus from the Counterstrike maneuver (down to -6) and a well balanced blade will have a +1 OCV (longswords, Katana etc) now we're down to -5. A few skill levels will bring this down to something reasonable. Use this against scrubbs, not experienced opponents.

((Defense)):
Maneuver: Martial Dodge (+0/+5/-)
Hit Location: N/A
Skill Levels: To DCV
Notes: Lean back to avoid an attack.

The Falcon Stoops
((Attack)):
Maneuver: Basic Strike (+1/+0/+1)
Hit Location: 2D6+1 (-2)
Skill Levels: split OCV/DCV
Notes: Reverse-grip diagonal slash from High to low.

((Defense)):
Maneuver: Flying Dodge (+0/+4/-)
Hit Location: N/A
Skill Levels: DCV
Notes: Used when faced with 2 attackers. This requires a skill vs skill contest. Sleight of hand vs Perception. If the PC using this maneuver beats the opponents perception, they fool them into thinking they are going to be engaged, and makes them commit to movement in the wrong direction. The PC will then move to face the other opponent, singling them out. (If this is succesful the "fooled" opponent looses the chance to attack this phase and must use enough movement to re-engage next phase)

The Falling Leaf
((Attack)):
Maneuver: Offensive Strike (-2/+1/+2)
Hit Location: 2D6+1 (-2)
Skill Levels: +1DC(2) Rest to OCV
Notes: A "double" slash attack. Passes across the body twice.

((Defense)):
Maneuver: Martial Dodge (+0/+5/-)
Hit Location: N/A
Skill Levels: DCV
Notes: A crouching Dodge. Avoids high attacks.

Folding the Fan
A sword sheathing technique. Requires a Fast Draw roll at -2 to perform correctly. On a critical failure a character will impale themself. Do basic weapon damage to location 12 (ouch!) On a critical success it adds 2D6 to Presence attacks to impress. If this is successful, it is a 0-phase action to sheath the weapon (which usualy takes a half phase to do safely).

The Grapevine Twines
((Attack)):
Maneuver: Sacrifice Disarm (+2/-2/+10STR)
Hit Location: N/A
Skill Levels: OCV
Notes: Used to disarm an opponent after a weapon bind is initiated.

((Defense)):
Maneuver: Martial Disarm (-1/+1/+10STR)
Hit Loction: N/A
Skill Levels: Split OCV/DCV (DCV priority)
Notes: This is the defensive version. This is used if one is the defender in a weapon bind. Once the bind is broken, use this to disarm your opponent, but remain defensive in case the disarm is unsuccessful.

Heron Spreads its Wings
((Attack)):
Maneuver: Sacrifice Strike (+1/-2/+2)
Hit Location: 2D6+1 (-2)
Skill Levels: split OCV/DC (Priority, DC)
Notes: Leaves attacker open to attack. Be careful. Powerful attack however.

((Defense)):
Maneuver: Defensive Block (+1/+3/-)
Hit Location: N/A
Skill Levels: split OCV/DCV (priority, DCV)
Notes: Used vs 2 or more opponents. Block 1 opponent, dodge the others (high dcv)

Heron Wading in the Rushes
((Attack)):
Maneuver: Sacrifice Strike (+1/-2/+2)
Hit Location: 2D6+1 (-2)
Skill Levels: all to DCV
Notes: Attacker gives initiative to the opponent. Push Strength to maximize damage. Considered suicide in a fight against skilled opponents. The advantage of this maneuver is if your opponent is dedicated to attacking (has already moved) they can mount no defense...neither parry or dodge is an option, and must take this blow as it is delivered. Skilled opponents can do considerable damage with this maneuver, provided their opponents attack does not kill them outright before they can deliver the fatal blow.

((Defense)):
Maneuver: Martial Dodge (+0/+5/-)
Hit Location: N/A
Skill Levels: DCV
Notes: Keeping opponent at sword range...use half move to move away from opponent.

Hummingbird Kisses the Honeyrose
((Attack)):
Maneuver: Basic Strike (+1/+0/+1)
Hit Location: 10 (-3)
Skill Levels: OCV/DCV
Notes: A quick thrust to the opponents chest. A balanced maneuver. A true Blademaster may want to turn this maneuver into an Autofire attack to simulate the ability to do quick, multiple thrusts in succession.

((Defense)):
Maneuver: Martial Dodge (+0/+5/-)
Hit Location: N/A
Skill Levels: DCV
Notes: Dodge by pivoting and stepping into your opponents guard.

Kingfisher Takes a Silverback
((Attack))
Maneuver: Ballestra (+2/-2/+2)
Hit Location: 1D6+3 (-4)
Skill Levels: Split OCV/DCV (priority, OCV)
Notes: Half move required. Drop to one knee and high-thrust, follow through and past opponent, and pivot to guard stance.

((Defense)):
Maneuver: Defensive Block (+1/+3/-)
Hit Location: N/A
Skill Levels: +1OCV rest to DCV
Note: Requires an Acrobatics roll. Acrobatic bonus is used for DCV. Tuck and roll past opponent. Blade is then used to block an overhead strike (if forthcomming)

Kissing the Adder
((Attack)):
Maneuver: Basic Strike (+1/+0/+1)
Hit Location: 10 (-3)
Skill Levels: +1 to OCV. Rest to DC
Notes: An attempt to stab the heart (thus the reason for skill levels to DC) On a Disabling wound, it can be assumed that the Heart is pierced and death is iminent.

((Defense)):
Maneuver: Flying Dodge (+0/+4/-)
Hit Location: N/A
Skill Levels: DCV
Notes: Requires an acrobatics roll. Add acrobatics bonus to DCV. Full move away from opponents to gain distance.

Leopard in High Grass
An improved version of Cat Crosses the Courtyard. A walking stance used when enemies are on all side. Requires Combat Sense (used to negate suprise attacks from the rear). DCV is full (as with Cat)
and the Swordsman has +2 to Perception to detect attackers. (this counts toward Combat sense also)
Requires: Combat Sense. Defense Maneuver. Minimum 4 skill levels with their Sword Arts.

More to come.....


Yes, there is still quite a few manuevers left to write up....we're only down to "M". It goes to "W"

NSG



There you go... that's all that I had.

Enjoy,
Steve

[Mavnn]

Good man!

[Nolgroth]

I think Xandarr's post just about sums up the "meat" of the old thread. Glad somebody saved that stuff. Well done.

[Mavnn]

... brain ticking over slowly ...

I seem to remember a few posts after this once Fred was out, detailing ideas for using multiple manuever sweeps to perform some of the forms. (ie. for the ones that suggest AF, reserving that for a real master and letting everyone else perform it as a sweep - and maybe letting real masters sweep the AF attack, although that's more Exalted than Wheel of Time).

Michael

[NuSoardGraphite]

feints

Well...looks like the whole thread is back. Now its just up to us to continue it...

[Nolgroth]

What I have been wanting to do is consolidating all the ideas in those previous posts into one (lengthy) document and seeing how it looks. I know that I have changed my opinion, somewhat, on how Channeling should work.

I really need to look over the rules constructs, as written, and see if and how they could be improved in the 5th Edition.

Does anybody here know of a source, online or in print, that defines which of the Five powers are involved in particular Weaves?

[NuSoardGraphite]

I'll look around in the next few days. There is one page in particular by a rabid WoT fan that is quite large and informative. I'll look there first. If I find anything, I'll post a link.

[Nolgroth]

Thanks. I've been looking around for something myself, but have had no luck to date.

[t-bear]

I'm currently adapting WoT to the Hero system for a game with my friend and I. Mostly I'm doing it to learn the Hero system better.

I'll post more info on what I come up with when I've got more done and such, but I was wondering if a more experienced hero system guru and WoT fan out there would be interested in posting their idea of a Trolloc build? With the idea in mind of PC's built in about 175 total points?

Thanks =)

[NuSoardGraphite]

Thats one thing we absolutely need in here;

Stats for Trollocks and Fades!

Post away my friend.

Unfortunately, I'm unable to get on the internet regularly, or I'd be finishing my list of Sword Maneuvers and adapting them to FREd...

[James Gillen]

I should see if Gary Ciaramella can contribute to this. He's giving me his WoT novels to read (I just finished Path of Daggers) and he also has the D20 game.

JG

[NuSoardGraphite]

I've been reading the latest book, which has given up quite a bit of information on the Warder/Aes Sedai bond. Apparently if the person Bonded can also channel, they can feel each other channelling through the bond, though they can't actually see anything or tell whats going on, they know their channelling.

Interesting, no?

Lets keep this thread going folks. Hopefully I'll be able to get back to the Blademaster arts very soon.

[Sociotard]

While I think Robert Jordan's writing style leaves a lot to be desired, the magic system in his world is one of my favorites. I also have the D20 book. I have been trying to convert some of the weaves etc. into hero system with mixed results. So far, I have all of the Cloud Dancing ones more or less done. Several of them had to be done with little tweaks in the rules. Dang! the librarian just turned off the lights to get me to leave, so I'll post some more tomorrow. I had it set up so characters bought 5 different VPP's of different strengths, and bought skills for different 'talents', such as "Cloud dancing"
They draw from their vpp's to supply the cost of the power and make a skill roll for the right talent. For example: Summon lightning uses Air and Fire. Characters can draw from both pools (though no more than 4/5 of the necessary real point cost can come from an individual pool) Assuming they have sufficient points, they make a skill roll. Summon lightning falls under Cloud dancing, so they roll for that skill.

Oh yeah, Characters also make an ego roll to connect with the source. As long as they hold it they are considered concentrating. They don't have to make additional ego rolls as long as they don't release the source. To simulate how tiring the source is, they cannot take recovery while holding onto the source

[Muldegian]

I have a buch of d20 stuff for the WoT on my website...Call of the Horn (http://www.mabinogin.com/Old%20Web/Callmain.htm).

There are some adventures and other stuff even if it is only the ideas and reseach that turns out to be useful.

Randy ~Eosin the Red ~Muldegian\


PS - I broke my template when I chaged hosts a few days ago so the navigation may be bad in spots.
Sorry.

[NuSoardGraphite]

I was sitting at work, doing doughnuts with my forklift because I was bored and there was nothing to do when it came to me:

You can represent Talent with a particular aspect of The One Power with Penalty Skill Levles!!!!!

My mind started going into overdrive then, thinking of other things as well.

One thing I would like to do though is develop a list of Talents that we've seen in the books so far. Here's what I remember off-hand:

Healing
Dreaming
Fortelling
Delving
Enchanting (I forget the term they use when one is creating an Angreal or Ter'angreal)


Can anyone think of any more Talents (or categories of using the One Power) and possibly what kind of weaves are used in them (I know Earth figures heavily in creating Angreal etc)

[NuSoardGraphite]

Bumping the thread for Eosin...

[Eosin]

I think I am gonna run with the 5 Skills and VPP on the write-ups that I am doing. One of the big honkers with the One Power is predefining the power of the One Power.

Rand is the most powerful channeler in the world BAR NONE.
Ishi is next in the scale
....
...
...
Alvia
Nyn
Taim
Logain
Egwene
....
...
Suiane
Moiroine

The scale is just to give you guys an idea of what I am talking about. SO my question would be what is the absolute limit on the One Power VPP. Remember that this limits your active costs also.

IMO - Rand is busting down a 150-180 point VPP
By the time we get to the Suiane/Moir levels we are already down to the 90-100 point level and your average sister is a 60 pt VPP with weak sisters coming in with 45 pt VPP. Less than weak means they were turned away aftewr some training.

One other comment on the Angraels. Most of them should have a built in buffer - the little fat man should give +4 to all One Power Rolls. Some of the Sa' Angraels do not seem to offer as much protection - perhaps they only have +1 per 20 AP and Callandor stacks 90 Points onto the VPP and adds no Skill - this would mean it was unbuffered and prone to burning out users.


Is that a good representation?

Check out the thread where I am writing some of the Wheel characters up. Feel free to pick at them and let me know where I have gone wrong.

[nightbringer256]

wow this thread is really interesting.
just trying to revie (sp) the thread

[James Gillen]

The scale is just to give you guys an idea of what I am talking about. SO my question would be what is the absolute limit on the One Power VPP. Remember that this limits your active costs also.

Whatever it takes to use Balefire, which not only kills the target but erases his history retroactively, as when Rand used it against a Forsaken, thus inadvertently saving the Aiel the villain had just killed.

JG

[Mutant for Hire]

You really should ask Steve Long. I mean he did the WoT RPG book. I'm sure he'd love to help out with more WoT stuff. :D

[Lord Liaden]

For interested parties, we have other great WoT HERO stuff on the boards:

Character writeups:
http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12881

Magic system writeups:
http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24376

[Nolgroth]

So, Nu Soard Graphite, you said that you were about 3/4 done with the Blademaster martial arts stuff. Have you "officially" completed them yet? :)

If I were to throw together a Wheel of Time for HERO website, would you mind if I used the blademaster rules? I've been debating the idea for a while and I think that I might have enough mental energy to actually build and maintain a project like that.

(And bump to keep the thread alive.)

[NuSoardGraphite]

No, I have been unable to complete that project due to some other considerations (computer problems and whatnot. I'm not using my own computer at this time)

Feel free to use them as much as you wish. Its why I posted them.

In a month or so, I should be able to get back to them. There aren't really that many to finish writing (I just hope the pages I was referrencing still exist!) so it shouldn't take too long once I get back to it.

In fact, I may competely revise them, so they are better implemented, as what I posted here was my first draft....

[Ndreare]

You really should ask Steve Long. I mean he did the WoT RPG book. I'm sure he'd love to help out with more WoT stuff. :D

Noy likely, When doing Fantasy HERO he implied he did not like Wheel of Time. It was right after he finished Wheel of Time the Role Playing Game, so mabey he was fed up with it? I remeber his asking though for Suggested Reading from board members and it was one book he mentioned in a negative light. (I would put a link here but am unable to find anything older than Feb 2003 in the search)

(Also I am sure there would be copy right concerns with him owning the company to work on another companies licenced material.)

[Nolgroth]

I can definately relate to the "other considerations" issue. For the last couple of years, work has been sucking all of my mental energy. Now things have settled down a little bit and I'm starting to feel the urge to create and expand what we've done with WoT (and other stuff too).

Well, if you are planning to re-create the system, I'm open to waiting around for it. I have a lot of stuff to do myself. At least the basic web page layout is prepared so all I have to do is create content. Of course, that is the hard part.

Good luck.

[Nolgroth]

Noy likely, When doing Fantasy HERO he implied he did not like Wheel of Time.

I remember the thread. Mr. Long was highly disinclined towards WoT. Sounded like he just didn't like the series at all. I've noticed that WoT has the love/hate reaction among those who read it.

[Nolgroth]

Back to a relatively "on-topic" question. What time period do you think would be the best to run a campaign in. As far as I see it you have several choices.

Age of Legends
Sounds very much like our own modern world with the exception of being much more of a Utopia than we have. Ter-Angrael seemed to provide the basis for clean energy and a technology that is at least what we are used to, if not higher. In Nynaeve's first battle with Moghedian, there was a mention of travelling to other planets.
I think a campaign in the Era would have to be after the Dark One's prison was breeched. The War of Power/Shadow would make a great campaign backdrop, though I have the feeling it may end up being like Military Fantasy.

The Breaking
Obviously a dangerous time for everybody. This would very much be a post-apoc type of setting. I can't imagine any sort of stable base for any communities.
We got to see what the Aiel went through with Rand's visit to Rhuidean, but what about the other people that eventually settled the remaining part of the world. Could be fun to play in, but I think a campaign would include a great deal of small conflicts.

The Covenent of Ten Nations
The world is starting to settle down and order is restored. The Ogier have just completed Tar Valon. Plenty of action and intrigue to be had.

Trolloc Wars
Another ideal time to role-play in. What more could you ask for? Massive amounts of Trollocs, Myrdraal and other Shadowspawn crunchiness. Of course, most things would tend to be large scale. Afterall, Manetheran was destroyed and Aridhol became Shadar Logoth during this time period.

Hawkwing's Empire
Another timeframe where intrigue and action can take a very important part. As another option, the journey of Luthair Pendraeg to Seancean might be a fun campaign to play with.

Between Hawkwing and Rand
A huge space of time that could encompass a lot of different styles of adventures. While there were many documented cases of momentous events, there is still enough leeway to do some pretty interesting stuff.

Interlude:
With the exception of the Age of Legends, you are going to have problems with having any male channelers. They are going to go insane, rot to death, and/or be hunted down and stilled or executed. While this would certainly be a feasible character concept, it might make for some mighty uncomfortable role-playing. These time periods are definately a call for non-channeling males.

The Dragon Reborn
This is the most likely time period to play in. Most details of the world setting are known. Male channelers may be able to hold off the effects of the Taint until Rand cleanses it.
Many new and old things are coming into their own in this time. Wolfbrothers and the Hornbound are being reborn. The old rules and expectations are breaking down. Almost anything can happen in a world nearing apocalyps.
The downside to this era would be running the campaign without crossing paths with the majority of the named characters. Also, Tarmon Gai'don would certainly be a campaign pauser, if not stopper.

The Fourth Age
Supposedly the world will be Broken again by the Dragon Reborn. What happens after that is open to speculation. There are a few references to scholarly work completed during the Fourth Age, but very little of the world condition has been revealed.
In some ways, this is an ideal setting to play in. There are no boundaries or expectations to live up to. The male half of the Source is clean and ready to use. You can do almost anything with the setting....
....Almost like creating a new setting unto itself. Moving into the Fourth Age would almost like not being in the WoT universe at all. Of course, references to the Third Age and the Dragon Reborn and the Second Breaking could be intertwined readily into the setting.

So there it is. Any thoughts?

[Nolgroth]

Just a link to study the chronology of the WoT setting.

http://www.sevenspokes.com/index.html

[Eosin]

I think the trolloc wars era is best for a huge number of reasons - I started to detail the setting under d20 but never finished.

Check out this thread (http://www.callofthehorn.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3) on the relevant info for the era.

[Nolgroth]

Fantastic resource Eosin. I really like the way that each nation was encapsulated into a single message with all the functional details required. I also like the conditions summary at the bottom about the state of the Ways and such. Those little bullet comments are very useful.

My one and only objection to running in any pre-Cleansing of the Taint timeframe would be that male channelers are really not viable, long-term characters. I would also think that if a PC running a male channeler decided to declare himself the Dragon Reborn, their could be problems.

Of couse, that's what Portal Stone Worlds are all about. :)

By the by, how much useful information (meaning non d20 specific) can be found in the role-playing books? I keep my distance from d20 material so I was just wondering if it would be a reference worth shelling out the cash for.

[Eosin]

The WOT d20 RPG can be fairly useful but the overwhelming majority of it is rules - funny enough that is where I got most of my use. Knowing the different weaves, overchanneling, Initiate vrs Wilder type stuff helped me with my Hero version of WOT. If you can find it in a used section, I would consider picking it up. However, my site basically has everything one could ever need to play the game in any system but d20. It also has 100 or so roll laying Wheel of Time geeks who are great company and love to dig in on any project.

[Eosin]

Fantastic resource Eosin. I really like the way that each nation was encapsulated into a single message with all the functional details required. I also like the conditions summary at the bottom about the state of the Ways and such. Those little bullet comments are very useful.

Thanks. There is a bucketload of research in that post fest.




My one and only objection to running in any pre-Cleansing of the Taint timeframe would be that male channelers are really not viable, long-term characters. I would also think that if a PC running a male channeler decided to declare himself the Dragon Reborn, their could be problems.

True, but there is evidence of male channalers being wearily welcomed during the trolloc wars even by the Aes Sedai. They will eventually go insane but once you start a game in WOT you are automatically playing in a Mirror World so why not leave the players guessing as part of the suspense of the game? Just don't tell anyone if the taint will be cleansed or the dragon will be reborn in your game until it happens or doesn't happen.

[Ndreare]

Back to a relatively "on-topic" question. What time period do you think would be the best to run a campaign in. As far as I see it you have several choices.

Age of Legends
Sounds very much like our own modern world with the exception of being much more of a Utopia than we have. Ter-Angrael seemed to provide the basis for clean energy and a technology that is at least what we are used to, if not higher. In Nynaeve's first battle with Moghedian, there was a mention of travelling to other planets.
I think a campaign in the Era would have to be after the Dark One's prison was breeched. The War of Power/Shadow would make a great campaign backdrop, though I have the feeling it may end up being like Military Fantasy.

The Breaking
Obviously a dangerous time for everybody. This would very much be a post-apoc type of setting. I can't imagine any sort of stable base for any communities.
We got to see what the Aiel went through with Rand's visit to Rhuidean, but what about the other people that eventually settled the remaining part of the world. Could be fun to play in, but I think a campaign would include a great deal of small conflicts.

The Covenent of Ten Nations
The world is starting to settle down and order is restored. The Ogier have just completed Tar Valon. Plenty of action and intrigue to be had.

Trolloc Wars
Another ideal time to role-play in. What more could you ask for? Massive amounts of Trollocs, Myrdraal and other Shadowspawn crunchiness. Of course, most things would tend to be large scale. Afterall, Manetheran was destroyed and Aridhol became Shadar Logoth during this time period.

Hawkwing's Empire
Another timeframe where intrigue and action can take a very important part. As another option, the journey of Luthair Pendraeg to Seancean might be a fun campaign to play with.

Between Hawkwing and Rand
A huge space of time that could encompass a lot of different styles of adventures. While there were many documented cases of momentous events, there is still enough leeway to do some pretty interesting stuff.

Interlude:
With the exception of the Age of Legends, you are going to have problems with having any male channelers. They are going to go insane, rot to death, and/or be hunted down and stilled or executed. While this would certainly be a feasible character concept, it might make for some mighty uncomfortable role-playing. These time periods are definately a call for non-channeling males.

The Dragon Reborn
This is the most likely time period to play in. Most details of the world setting are known. Male channelers may be able to hold off the effects of the Taint until Rand cleanses it.
Many new and old things are coming into their own in this time. Wolfbrothers and the Hornbound are being reborn. The old rules and expectations are breaking down. Almost anything can happen in a world nearing apocalyps.
The downside to this era would be running the campaign without crossing paths with the majority of the named characters. Also, Tarmon Gai'don would certainly be a campaign pauser, if not stopper.

The Fourth Age
Supposedly the world will be Broken again by the Dragon Reborn. What happens after that is open to speculation. There are a few references to scholarly work completed during the Fourth Age, but very little of the world condition has been revealed.
In some ways, this is an ideal setting to play in. There are no boundaries or expectations to live up to. The male half of the Source is clean and ready to use. You can do almost anything with the setting....
....Almost like creating a new setting unto itself. Moving into the Fourth Age would almost like not being in the WoT universe at all. Of course, references to the Third Age and the Dragon Reborn and the Second Breaking could be intertwined readily into the setting.

So there it is. Any thoughts?


It would have to be the "Fourth Age" (as called by some :) ) I also like the idea of playing in the anciant past. But I think things would not be as utopian as they make it out to be. Remember it was "An Age of Legends" and legends often founded on fact are never really fact. But it would be cool to have all that magic controlled and used against the players.... Uh I mean for the good of mankind.

[Nolgroth]

It would have to be the "Fourth Age" (as called by some :) ) I also like the idea of playing in the anciant past. But I think things would not be as utopian as they make it out to be. Remember it was "An Age of Legends" and legends often founded on fact are never really fact. But it would be cool to have all that magic controlled and used against the players.... Uh I mean for the good of mankind.

I would agree with you about the not-so-Utopia of the Age of Legends except that Mr. Jordan claimed that it was in The World of the Wheel of Time. He said that the concept of war was forgotten, there were no great diseases, blah blah blah. Now once the Bore was created, things would be a whole lot different. You have the Forsaken going over to the Shadow, Friends of the Dark thinking they can get in on the spoils and soon after, Trollocs and other Shadowspawn. The War of Power (Shadow) would be the best time in the Age of Legends to play. At least in my opinion. As Eosin pointed out, the campaign could be a Mirror World and the Age of Legends could have been different.

Now the Fourth Age would be one of the easiest to run in. I think that I would prefer that to the Third Age or Age of Legends. The absolute hardest part would be to build connections, in the players' minds, with the Wheel of Time setting. The best thing I can think of is to liberally tell tales, from a Gleeman's point of view perhaps, of the happenings during Tar'mon Gai'don and before. The trick would then be to start the exaggeration that occurs over time. Rand could be seven feet tall and wield a sword of Light. Perrin Goldeneyes could transform into a wolf and kill Trollocs by the thousands. Mat could never lose a battle and laughed in the face of Aes Sedai. Even the wondergirls could have their own tall tales, though the truth of their accomplishments will mostly be relegated to Tower lore.

So, the next question is whether or not the Asha'men join with the Aes Sedai and form a unified society of channelers. Do the whitecloaks still exist? What is the state of the nations. Does Andor still exist? Cairhein? Where are the Seanchan? Have they integrated with the remainder of the nations? Do they still seek conquest?

Obviously one or more of these questions may well be answered by the conclusion of the Wheel of Time setting. But who's going to wait six to eight years before running a WoT game? :)

My, but I can be long-winded. Now back to your regularly scheduled Board Discussion Forum.

[Nolgroth]

Thanks. There is a bucketload of research in that post fest.

How much of the information is research versus ad-lib? The details are awesome, but I don't remember quite that much breadth of knowledge being passed on through the books. An incredible depth on the topics covered, but not that much breadth.



True, but there is evidence of male channalers being wearily welcomed during the trolloc wars even by the Aes Sedai. They will eventually go insane but once you start a game in WOT you are automatically playing in a Mirror World so why not leave the players guessing as part of the suspense of the game? Just don't tell anyone if the taint will be cleansed or the dragon will be reborn in your game until it happens or doesn't happen.

Again true. I think that would likely be my second favorite time period to play in. I still think the Fourth Age offers many opportunities, without the worry of the Taint. If the effects of the Taint are something that you and your players want to explore, then the Trolloc Wars sounds like a really cool period to play in.

Hmmmn. How would one model the affects of the Taint in HERO terms? I have to think about that.

[Ndreare]

Obviously one or more of these questions may well be answered by the conclusion of the Wheel of Time setting. But who's going to wait six to eight years before running a WoT game? :)

My, but I can be long-winded. Now back to your regularly scheduled Board Discussion Forum.

Or even more likely is that Robert Jordan will never finish the books, and we will have his children or some fan come along and tell us what was meant to happen. He is an odler man and retirement and/or death often comes with age.

[Nolgroth]

Or even more likely is that Robert Jordan will never finish the books, and we will have his children or some fan come along and tell us what was meant to happen. He is an odler man and retirement and/or death often comes with age.

I'd rather not entertain that notion myself. We do have at least one more book due to come out in October. Knife of Dreams is something I have been looking forward to. When Path of Daggers came out, Mr. Jordan stated that he needed three more books to finish the series. Maybe he will stretch it out long enough to finish Wot.

[Primal]

I'd rather not entertain that notion myself. We do have at least one more book due to come out in October. Knife of Dreams is something I have been looking forward to. When Path of Daggers came out, Mr. Jordan stated that he needed three more books to finish the series. Maybe he will stretch it out long enough to finish Wot.
I recall Jordan also saying that he intends to 'keep writing until they put him in the grave', or something like that. I think he means keep writing in the WoT series... He may "need" three more books to finish the series, but I suspect he'll probably put out 6 or 7 more and then die without finishing it.. :p

Certainly a rich setting, though.. possibly a bit too rich for my gaming tastes. I would always be afraid that someone would have read (or imagined) some story or interview that they'd use to try to rules-lawyer/genre-lawyer things to death.. either that, or some players would have no clue at all about the setting, and all your clever schemes, homages, etc. fall flat because you're forgetting that they haven't read a single one of the ~10,000 pages of narrative out there.. ("Jeez Bill.. ok.. We'll let it go this week, but you better have read at least up until Rand cleanses the Taint by next week's game, or you'll be seeing flecks in front of your eyes!")

Congrats and my envy to those of you who can get a great game going in this setting!

[Ndreare]

Certainly a rich setting, though.. possibly a bit too rich for my gaming tastes. I would always be afraid that someone would have read (or imagined) some story or interview that they'd use to try to rules-lawyer/genre-lawyer things to death.. either that, or some players would have no clue at all about the setting, and all your clever schemes, homages, etc. fall flat because you're forgetting that they haven't read a single one of the ~10,000 pages of narrative out there.. ("Jeez Bill.. ok.. We'll let it go this week, but you better have read at least up until Rand cleanses the Taint by next week's game, or you'll be seeing flecks in front of your eyes!")

Congrats and my envy to those of you who can get a great game going in this setting!


Been there, I once wrote up over 40 pages of rules for my Wheel of Time Game only to have it fall flat when two players had read the series and the other four could care less. The game was fun for every one except those of us familiar with the setting. No one even cared what the titles incured. "You see a small band of Aeil, the look concerned over something and a couple are walking with their hands over their vails ready to pull them to face at any moment."
Player, "Aeil cowerds I bet whatever they are afraid of is just a ogrier or something"
Other players, "Crap!"

[Nolgroth]

I recall Jordan also saying that he intends to 'keep writing until they put him in the grave', or something like that. I think he means keep writing in the WoT series... He may "need" three more books to finish the series, but I suspect he'll probably put out 6 or 7 more and then die without finishing it.. :p

Yeah, but he also explicitly stated that he wants to punch out a new series immediately following this one. The only bits that I've read about it are that a sailor is marooned on a beach in some sort of Seanchan like society. He didn't give much more details and I'll be Lightblinded if I can even recall where I read it at.



Certainly a rich setting, though.. possibly a bit too rich for my gaming tastes. I would always be afraid that someone would have read (or imagined) some story or interview that they'd use to try to rules-lawyer/genre-lawyer things to death.. either that, or some players would have no clue at all about the setting, and all your clever schemes, homages, etc. fall flat because you're forgetting that they haven't read a single one of the ~10,000 pages of narrative out there.. ("Jeez Bill.. ok.. We'll let it go this week, but you better have read at least up until Rand cleanses the Taint by next week's game, or you'll be seeing flecks in front of your eyes!")

Congrats and my envy to those of you who can get a great game going in this setting!

I can totally understand your concerns there. My counter is that any game setting that a player doesn't know about has the same potential affect. This includes most homebrew game settings as well. I guess that I always took it upon myself to educate the players as we go. In many ways, my GMing style is much like EotW. The first characters to start out in the setting are ignorant and are "educated" by coincidental lore from those in the know. As the players become more familiar with the setting, so too do their alter-egos in the setting.

On the flip side, if the players have absolutely no drive to learn the new setting then it is destined for failure. Going into that subject is one that I have seen covered time and time again on the boards. I couldn't tell you how to keep every player motivated. I only know that it is the attempt to run an enjoyable game and have fun that matters. The dead weights will either fall into the fold or gradually stop attending.

As for rules/genre lawyers, well I suffer fools about as lightly as lead. I won't say that I rule the game with an iron fist, but I make sure that they all understand that the final arbiter is me. So far, I haven't had any players walk out because they thought me unfair. 'Course the glory days of my gaming career are a decade in the past. I really need to find a decent group to game with. :straight:

[Eosin]

How much of the information is research versus ad-lib?

The sections - research, course of the war, raw history, and various facts are all lifted strait from the text of various books. The kingdom write-ups use that information but also fill in as needed.

[Eosin]

Jordan has said "At least three more books" for the last 6 books but after COT he said "no more than 3 books." A subtle change but one that give me hope. :o

[James Gillen]

I recall Jordan also saying that he intends to 'keep writing until they put him in the grave', or something like that. I think he means keep writing in the WoT series...

That's actually in his "about the author" bio in the back of the books. I think the text is "he intends to keep writing until they nail shut his coffin." :D

JG

[Nolgroth]

Eosin,
Would you mind me using your Fade write-up on another website? For the most part I really like the write-up as is, but I just noticed that it doesn't have a Detect Channeling ability. I would have to add that onto the sheet.

Reference: http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27155

[Eosin]

Feel free, let me know where he gets posted. COTH (My website) has a very open policy about others using our stuff. We all draw from the same well so it seems rather bullish to get all whacked about someone else borrowing something. :rolleyes:

BTW - his mage sight is a lazy attempt at det channeling. Just rename it to "Det Channeling." I hate it when I get caught being lazy.

:drink:

[Nolgroth]

Feel free, let me know where he gets posted. COTH (My website) has a very open policy about others using our stuff. We all draw from the same well so it seems rather bullish to get all whacked about someone else borrowing something.

Thanks. I'm still working on getting the page to the point where it would be useful (as opposed to a bunch of empty space and a couple of links). Speaking of which, do you mind if I throw a link to Call of the Horn on my site?


BTW - his mage sight is a lazy attempt at det channeling. Just rename it to "Det Channeling." I hate it when I get caught being lazy.

Mage Sight is from Fantasy HERO? I believe that would work. I assume it is Detect Magic bought as a Sense. I think I would attune it to touch, since one of the fades in TDR referenced to an itch when the three girls were captured. I think I'll read up on Enhanced Senses a little before tweaking anything.

The ability seems to have a pretty wide range, but then the rules and limits to channeling were never spelled out in any concrete way. More's the frustration for that.

Well, thanks again. I'll keep posting as I get some progress done.

[Eosin]

Mage sight is basically a det magic at range - active rather than passive.

As to the links - feel free. You should also check out the stickied thread in the CotH forum for a pretty massive list of RPG links.

[Nolgroth]

Okay, I have been trying to put together different packages. This is what I have so far for Wolfbrother. I'm thinking that I may have to put some sort of bonus to PER roll with all senses, but I haven't convinced myself yet.

<table border="0" cellpadding="0"><tr><td align="right"><b>Cost </b></td><td><b>Power</b></td><td align="right"><b>END</b></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">10 </td><td><b><i>Keen Nose: </i></b>Tracking with Smell/Taste Group </td><td valign="top" align="right">0</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">3 </td><td><b><i>Wolf Ears: </i></b>Ultrasonic Perception (Hearing Group) </td><td valign="top" align="right">0</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">5 </td><td><b><i>Wolf Sight: </i></b>Nightvision </td><td valign="top" align="right">0</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">16 </td><td><b><i>Wolf Speech: </i></b>Mind Link , Specific Group of Minds - Wolves, No LOS Needed, Number of Minds (x4), Megascale (1" = 1 km; +1/4), Invisible Power Effects (Fully Invisible; +1/2) (52 Active Points); Feedback STUN Only (-1), Concentration, Must Concentrate throughout use of Constant Power (1/2 DCV; -1/2), Normal Range (-1/4), Reduced By Range (-1/4), Does Not Provide Mental Awareness (-1/4) </td><td valign="top" align="right">0</td></tr></table><b>Powers Cost:</b> 34

I want to add a potential berserk disadvantage to simulate when Perrin has to fight off the wolf-aspect when he talks to the wolves. I don't know, it may be better off as a Psych Lim, since an EGO roll seems more appropriate than a generic roll.

Also, I haven't worked up exactly how I want to do the Wolf Dream/Dreaming powers. Obviously a lot can happen in the Dream, including precognition, reality warping and moving across distances at high rates of speed. Also, what happens in the dream happens to the physical body. Hurm. Will have to think on that one and read up on some of the rules to boot.

Anyway, it is a beginning. :)

[Eosin]

I was gonna comment on the dream aspect but see that you got to that outside of the package.

Might I suggest that you consider using the "Astral Form" spell. That kinda fixes everything in one fell swoop. You don't need to buy a ton of powers since those are all bundled into the "Astral Form" or in this case Tel'rhiod. Then you can tack on a fairly cheap precog power and be done with it.

[Nolgroth]

I was gonna comment on the dream aspect but see that you got to that outside of the package.

Might I suggest that you consider using the "Astral Form" spell. That kinda fixes everything in one fell swoop. You don't need to buy a ton of powers since those are all bundled into the "Astral Form" or in this case Tel'rhiod. Then you can tack on a fairly cheap precog power and be done with it.


Astral Form? Will have to look through my stuff. Is it one of the sidebar powers or from one of the Fantasy HERO grimoires?

[Eosin]

Actually I think it is in Ultimate Mystic and The Mystic World. Professor Ka also has it in Vibora Bay and IIRC one of the first characters in Arcane Adversaries also has it..... It is sort of a standard, in as much as Hero has standards. There is a fairly detailed discussion of it in one of the books but I will have to look for it.

[Nolgroth]

Ah. I think I have the Ultimate Mystic around here somewhere. I remember buying it and reading it. It was the one HERO sourcebook that I actually felt was somehow less than it could have been. I haven't seen it in a month or more. I will look and if the Astral Form write-up isn't in there, I have a mechanic in mind.

Thanks for the heads up.

P.S. Found it. Page 54 of the Ultimate Mystic. Hmmmn. As the basic mechanic for getting to T'A'R, that works perfectly. For the more advanced things like Precog and the even the Dreamer abilities, it would require a little more, but the basic Astral Form works well.

Now I just have to do the deed and finish the Wolfbrother package. Thanks again.

[Nolgroth]

Well here is a little bit of a revision to the above. I added what I thought were reasonable powers to reflect the Wolf Dream. As Eosin suggested, I tried to stay within the bounds of Astral Form. I used the Alternative One with some minor modifications to fit the scale I am designing to (125/75).

I don't think that Perrin (the only Wolf Brother we have seen in the Dream) exhibited any powers beyond this. I am also going to use this as the base for a Dreamer package. Hypothetically, a Wolf Brother could learn more abilities, since many of them are not tied to the One Power.

Any feedback would be really appreciated. I will be posting additional material as I get it completed. I may have the Dreamer package up Real Soon Now (tm).

EDIT: Refer to post below for complete package.

[Eosin]

I would add a "No conscious control" to the precognition.

This is a really good work up. You might add a section on suggested purchases.

A. Increased Running
B. Stamina (+2 to CON checks or additional CON/END)
C. Beserk (FH talent)
D. Pack Fighting (Teamwork or CSL when fighting with Wolves)
E. DF: Yellowed Eyes
F. DF: Wilderness Man
G: Psysical Lim: Lost to the Wolf


I am sure there are more but that is a list of things that some of the Wolf Brothers might posses (but not all of them so it shouldn't go in the package proper).

Now a return favor - do you mind if I post this up on my website :celebrate

[Daermon]

Actually, the yellow eyes is indicative of all Wolf Brothers. Don't forget Elyas, nor the feral one they met once they left Emond's Field.

Also, the Bersek should be a part of the package as well. Elyas has his brush-ins with that part of his nature, although he seems to embrace it at times whereas Perrin fights it every step of the way.

Just my two cents. ;)

[Nolgroth]

I would add a "No conscious control" to the precognition.
Good suggestion. I was torn between adding that or not. I kind of settled on the "vague and unclear" until I could test the waters here.


This is a really good work up. You might add a section on suggested purchases.
A. Increased Running
B. Stamina (+2 to CON checks or additional CON/END)
C. Beserk (FH talent)
D. Pack Fighting (Teamwork or CSL when fighting with Wolves)
E. DF: Yellowed Eyes
F. DF: Wilderness Man
G: Psysical Lim: Lost to the Wolf

I haven't gotten into the Disadvantages yet, but at the very least I was going to do at least the Yellow Eyes and I would call the other DF "Feral." Not so much as outward appearance, but more as a subliminal sense of presence. Lost to the Wolf implies that the character would all but be an NPC in my mind, but I could see it simulated in short term with either Berserk or a Psych Lim. Berserk seems more appropriate, having a "Go" and "Recover" roll, but it seemed to be a matter of Willpower to keep hold of humanity. Sounds like a Psych Lim to me. The Pack Fighting is a very cool idea. I seem to remember Perrin using an almost Wolf "style" of fighting when he took that Fade down in the beginning of Dragon Reborn. Hmmnn. The Stamina ability is hard to tell. Both Perrin and Elyas were fit and healthy men before the change into a Wolf Brother.



I am sure there are more but that is a list of things that some of the Wolf Brothers might posses (but not all of them so it shouldn't go in the package proper).
I could create a section entitled "Optional Abilities" and tack it to the end of the list. One of the things I'm concerned about is having too large a package. I am designing for a 200pt total game, and the package as it stands still takes up about half that. Keeping that in mind, another "Optional Ability" would be an increased PRE to reflect that Feral Aura I was talking about above. :)


Now a return favor - do you mind if I post this up on my website :celebrate
Of course you may post and that is a blanket statement for anything I do post here. Now, keep in mind that, when I get enough solid material to create a website, I am going to have some sort of "official" version. I will even post the HERO Designer files at that point.

[Nolgroth]

Okay. I think this just about does it. Eosin's suggestions (thank you) were good ones and I incorporated what I thought would be appropriate to the package. I'm sure there are still some minor tweaks to be done, but you should be able to build from here to customize the character.

Enjoy


Wolfbrother Package
COST..POWERS
..10..Keen Nose: Tracking with Smell/Taste Group
...3..Wolf Ears: Ultrasonic Perception (Hearing Group)
...5..Wolf Sight: Nightvision
..16..Wolf Speech: Mind Link, Specific Group of Minds - Wolves, No LOS Needed, Number of Minds (x4), Megascale (1" = 1 km; +1/4), Invisible Power Effects (Fully Invisible; +1/2) (52 Active Points); Feedback STUN Only (-1), Concentration, Must Concentrate throughout use of Constant Power (1/2 DCV; -1/2), Normal Range (-1/4), Reduced By Range (-1/4), Does Not Provide Mental Awareness (-1/4)
..31..Wolf Dream Form: Duplication (creates 200-point form), Altered Duplicates (100%; +1) (80 Active Points); Extra Time (20 Minutes, Only to Activate, Character must fall asleep in order to enter Wolf Dream; -1 1/4), Feedback (All Duplicates Take Damage When Struck; -1), Original character is Incapacitated and Helpless while Duplicate exists (-1), Both Duplicates die if they do not recombine within 24 hours (-1/2), Costs Endurance (Only Costs END to Activate; -1/4) plus Entering the Wolf Dream: Extra-Dimensional Movement (Single Dimension, Any Location corresponding to current physical location) (22 Active Points); Linked (Wolf Dream Form; -1/2)

Dream Form Abilities
These abilites can only be used in the Wolf Dream by the Duplicate form.

..10..Long Stride: Multipower, 20-point reserve, (20 Active Points); all slots Only in Wolf Dream (-1)
..2m..Teleportation 5", x8 Noncombat (20 Active Points); Only in Wolf Dream (-1), Must Pass Through Intervening Space (-1/4)
..2m..Teleportation 5", MegaScale (1" = 100 km; +3/4), Can Be Scaled Down 1" = 1km (+1/4) (20 Active Points); Only in Wolf Dream (-1), Must Pass Through Intervening Space (-1/4)

...7..Windows of Foresight: Precognitive Clairsentience (Sight Group) (40 Active Points); No Conscious Control (-2), Precognition/Retrocognition Only (-1), Only in Wolf Dream (-1), Vague and Unclear (-1/2)

Optional Abilities
..14..Berserk Fury Aid Strength 2d6 (20 Active Points); Only when Enraged (-1/2), Self Only (-1/2) plus Physical Damage Reduction, 25% (10 Active Points); STUN Only (-1/2), Only when Enraged (-1/2), Linked (Aid; -1/2)
...5..Feral Aura: +5 PRE (Modifiers affect Base Characteristic)
..10..Wolf Fighting Tactics: +2 with HTH Combat

COST..CHARACTER DISADVANTAGES
..10..Distinctive Features: Reflective Yellow Eyes (Concealable; Noticed and Recognizable; Detectable By Commonly-Used Senses)
..15..Distinctive Features: Feral aura (Not Concealable; Noticed and Recognizable; Detectable By Commonly-Used Senses)
..15..Enraged: When fighting Shadowspawn (Uncommon), go 11-, recover 11-
..10..Psychological Limitation: Fighting the Wolf. When using Wolf Speech, it is easy to lose one's sense of self to the pack mindset. Losing it for too long could mean becoming "Lost to the Wolf." (Common, Moderate)
..10..Social Limitation: Wolf Brothers are misunderstood by society in general. Aes Sedai try to study them, many people shun them, Whitecloaks consider them Shadowspawn. (Frequently, Major, Not Limiting In Some Cultures)

[Nolgroth]

Here are a couple of items. I'm trying to think of other ter'angreal to write-up. I considered the three ring testing ter'angreal in the White Tower, but that seems more of a plot item than anything.

I may write up the doors to the Aelfinn and Elfinn realms. Also seems more of a prop item, but what the heck.

I'll be adding items as inspiration strikes me. Enjoy.

Horn of Valere
Created in an Age before the Age of Legends, the Horn of Valere calls Heroes from all Ages to fight for the person who sounds the Horn. The exact number of Heroes varies. Time and the Wheel spin them out to re-live their lives, leaving the remainder bound to the Horn.

COST..POWER
......Horn of Valere: Summon 128 300-point Hero, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Slavishly Devoted (+1) (237 Active Points); Independent (-2), OAF (The Horn is bound to the person who sounds it. To any other person, the Horn is nothing more than an instrument. Once the Hornsounder dies, then the horn can be bound to another sounder.; -1), Extra Time (1 Turn (Post-Segment 12), Only to Activate, Character May Take No Other Actions, -3/4), Gestures (-1/4)


Twisted Ring
Given to Egwene al'Vere by Verin Sedai, the twisted ring allows a person to enter Tel'aran'rhiod. It does not provide any special protection or abilities once the person gets to Tel'aran'rhiod

COST..POWER
......Dream Form: Duplication (creates 200-point form), Altered Duplicates (100%; +1) (80 Active Points); Independent (-2), Extra Time (20 Minutes, Only to Activate, Character must fall asleep in order to enter Tel'aran'rhiod; -1 1/4), Feedback (All Duplicates Take Damage When Struck; -1), Original character is Incapacitated and Helpless while Duplicate exists (-1), Both Duplicates die if they do not recombine within 24 hours (-1/2), OIF (-1/2) plus Entering Tel'aran'rhiod: Extra-Dimensional Movement (Single Dimension, Any Location corresponding to current physical location), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (33 Active Points); Independent (-2), Linked (Dream Form; -1/2), OIF (-1/2)

[Nolgroth]

I have finished a rough draft of the Dreamer Package. With the Wolfbrother Package opening up Tel'aran'rhiod, it seemed only natural to follow up with a true Dreamer. This package could be tacked on to any existing character to create a Dreamer, even a Wise One of the Aiel. It is an expensive package, especially as it has no Disadvantages associated with it.

EDIT: Added optional Enter Tel'aran'rhiod in the Flesh power.

As always, differing views and concepts are most welcome.

Dreamer Package
COST..SKILL
...3..Dream Mastery (Ego-based)

COST..TALENT
...4..Eidetic Memory (5 Active Points); Dreams Only (-1/4)

COST..POWER
..31..Dream Form:Duplication (creates 200-point form), Altered Duplicates (100%; +1) (80 Active Points); Extra Time (20 Minutes, Only to Activate, Character must fall asleep in order to enter Wolf Dream; -1 1/4), Feedback (All Duplicates Take Damage When Struck; -1), Original character is Incapacitated and Helpless while Duplicate exists (-1), Both Duplicates die if they do not recombine within 24 hours (-1/2), Costs Endurance (Only Costs END to Activate; -1/4) plus Entering Tel'aran'rhiod: Extra-Dimensional Movement (Single Dimension, Any Location corresponding to current physical location) (22 Active Points); Linked (Dream Form; -1/2)

Dream Form Abilities [Notes: These are abilities that are bought by the Dreamer when in Tel'aran'rhiod. These abilites can only be used in Tel'aran'rhiod by the Duplicate form.]

..12..Dream Mastery:60 Point VPP [Notes: Each point in the Dream Mastery talent gives the character the equivelent of a 5 Point Variable Power Pool. The individual powers in the pool must be designed and a list of abilities kept by either the GM or the player. If the player wishes to invent a new power, they design the power, including all Power Modifiers. After that, the character may learn the power in 5 Active Point increments. Each increment takes 1 week to perfect. When the 5 point increments add up to the full Active Cost of the power, it is learned and the power can then be used normally from then on out The character must have a Dream Mastery skill as well. This Power is Based on a Talent. Inspiration for Dream Mastery comes from "The Gift" (page 265 of the Fantasy HERO sourcebook).]
..10..Long Stride:Multipower, 20-point reserve, (20 Active Points); all slots Only in Tel'aran'rhiod (-1)
..2m..1) Teleportation 5", x8 Noncombat (20 Active Points); Only in Tel'aran'rhiod (-1), Must Pass Through Intervening Space (-1/4)
..2m..2) Teleportation 5", MegaScale (1" = 100 km; +3/4), Can Be Scaled Down 1" = 1km (+1/4) (20 Active Points); Only in Tel'aran'rhiod (-1), Must Pass Through Intervening Space (-1/4)
...9..Locate by Need:Detect A Large Class Of Things 11- (Unusual Group), Increased Arc Of Perception (360 Degrees), Range, MegaScale (1" = 100 km; +3/4), Can Be Scaled Down 1" = 1km (+1/4) (40 Active Points); No Conscious Control (Only Effects cannot be controlled; -1), Only in Tel'aran'rhiod (-1), Concentration (0 DCV; -1/2), Lockout (-1/2), Linked (???; When the character "Detects" the object needed, they teleport towards the location of the object. May take multiple jumps to reach the iterm.; -1/2)
...7..Precognitive Dreams:Precognitive Clairsentience (Sight Group) (40 Active Points); No Conscious Control (-2), Precognition/Retrocognition Only (-1), Only in Tel'aran'rhiod (-1), Vague and Unclear (-1/2)
Optional Ability
...7..Entering Tel'aran'rhiod In the Flesh:Extra-Dimensional Movement (Single Dimension) (20 Active Points); Side Effects, Side Effect occurs automatically whenever Power is used (2d6 Transform Character loses a part of what makes them human. Short-term effects could be an animosity from other Dreamers or Wolves. Long-term, the character may become an NPC under the GM's control.; -1), Requires a Dream Mastery Skill Roll (Active Point penalty to Skill Roll is -1 per 5 Active Points; -1)
Powers Cost: 80

Total Character Cost: 87

[Eosin]

<td align="right" valign="top"> </td><td><b>Dream Form Abilities</b> [<i>Notes:</i> These are abilities that are bought by the Wolf Brother when in the Wolf Dream. These abilites can only be used in the Wolf Dream by the Duplicate form.] </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">20 </td><td><b><i>Long Stride: </i></b>Multipower, 20-point reserve </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">3m </td><td>1) Teleportation 5", x8 Noncombat (20 Active Points); Must Pass Through Intervening Space (-1/4) </td><td valign="top" align="right">2</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">2u </td><td>2) Teleportation 5", MegaScale (1" = 100 km; +3/4), Can Be Scaled Down 1" = 1km (+1/4) (20 Active Points); Must Pass Through Intervening Space (-1/4) </td><td valign="top" align="right">2</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">9 </td><td><b><i>Windows of Foresight: </i></b>Precognitive Clairsentience (Sight Group) (40 Active Points); No Conscious Control (-2), Precognition/Retrocognition Only (-1), Vague and Unclear (-1/2) </td><td valign="top" align="right">4</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top"> </td><td> </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top"> </td>

Should these abilities have the "Only in Tel' (-1)" limitation?

[Nolgroth]

Should these abilities have the "Only in Tel' (-1)" limitation?

Maybe. At least, perhaps, I could give them a value equal to Linked (to Dream Form) (-1/2) for Only in Tel'aran'rhiod. It seems that a lot could happen in TAR and those abilities don't seem like they would be that restricted by the TAR only usage.

Thanks for the feedback. Now I have to post updates. :angst:

:)

EDIT: Updates now posted. Thanks again Eosin.

[Eosin]

FWIW - per the Ult Mentalist (4th ED) "Precog, Only while dreaming" is a -1 LIM and what I based my suggestion on - it is a standard limitation for a dreaming precog.

:whistle:

[Nolgroth]

FWIW - per the Ult Mentalist (4th ED) "Precog, Only while dreaming" is a -1 LIM and what I based my suggestion on - it is a standard limitation for a dreaming precog.

I wonder though, if the Ultimate Mentalist (4th ED) had a solid campaign idea about a place that almost all of the main characters could access in one way or another. Not saying that the "case law" is wrong, but it seems a little bit much. Mind you, for the few powers that it would effect, the costs wouldn't drop by that much. I would have no real heartache about making the Limitation value -1.

[James Gillen]

I wonder though, if the Ultimate Mentalist (4th ED) had a solid campaign idea about a place that almost all of the main characters could access in one way or another. Not saying that the "case law" is wrong, but it seems a little bit much. Mind you, for the few powers that it would effect, the costs wouldn't drop by that much. I would have no real heartache about making the Limitation value -1.

There's also the fact that in most cases, superpowers are the result of one special effect, the One Power. Dreaming abilities are an exception, and operate on their own rules. You can use the Power in the dream world, but it's also possible for a few people (like Wolfbrothers) to have lucid dreams and operate there, so one is not a subset of the other. But given that the dream world is effectively another dimension, however frequently it's accessed, the -1 Limitation is about right.

JG

[Nolgroth]

There's also the fact that in most cases, superpowers are the result of one special effect, the One Power. Dreaming abilities are an exception, and operate on their own rules. You can use the Power in the dream world, but it's also possible for a few people (like Wolfbrothers) to have lucid dreams and operate there, so one is not a subset of the other. But given that the dream world is effectively another dimension, however frequently it's accessed, the -1 Limitation is about right.

JG

Well, thank you for the input. I am not unreasonable with the whole Limitation value. To me, it is better to start with conservative values, test the waters and then change them as the situation warrants. And while I still argue (at least mildly) that Tel'aran'rhiod is just another sub-setting that will likely take part in many adventures and therefore less rare, I also realize that these packages are mucho expensive and a few points here and there are not going to destroy any game balance. Specifically, the Precognition is a story driven power and I'm all about driving the story. I also realize that many potential GMs may well not use TAR that much, so that increases the argument for a greater Limitation value.

Now, off to change them......

And thanks again.

EDIT: Not much of a heartache there. Saved three points or so off the Wolfbrother package and five points off the Dreamer package.

[Nolgroth]

Foxhead Medallion
Option 1: Suppress 67d6 (standard effect: 201 points), all [Channeling] powers simultaneously (+2), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2) (1340 Active Points); Independent (-2), OAF (-1), No Range (-1/2), Self Only (-1/2)
This is my attempt at the Foxhead medallion and a base for the Gholams' Power neutralizing ability. I figure that 200 AP is about the most powerful Channeler that exists. Beyond that, the bearer of the Foxhead medallion is going to be in for a surprise. Of course, the way I am building things, that would take Rand, channeling Fire, with an Angrael/Sa'Angrael to effect him.

This thing is really expensive. Good thing Mat picked it up after he started the campaign. :) Since absolute effects are so difficult to do in HERO, the only way to simulate is to spend godawful points in things. I was real tempted to do some blatant rules raping and make it a Desolid versus all Channeling Powers. That just doesn't seem right somehow.

Anyway. There it is for your enjoyment.

EDIT: Doh! I just read the Desolidification rules from HERO 5th Edition. I suppose I should have done that first. May be able to work with that....

Okay, here is an alternate that is much cheaper. I have tried to keep it within the bounds of reason and use the Second Meta-Rule of HERO (Every attack or power that can be used offensively should should have some defense or way to avoid its effects; and the defense should be considerably cheaper. Page #559: HERO 5th Edition Revised). Even with that, I think it would be very easy to abuse Option 2.

Option 2: Desolidification (affected by all attacks other than channeling), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2), Affects all Channeling Based Powers (+2), Remains Physical (character does not need to purchase STR or other attacks with Affects Physical World advantage; +2) (240 Active Points); Independent (-2), Only To Protect Against Channeling (-1), OAF (-1)

With Option 2, absolutely no channeling will affect the character. Not that any character with this ability will likely have to pay for it, but it is a nice reference and may also serve as the basis for the gholam power that does the same thing. Besides, if some Aes Sedai ter'angrael maker was so inclined to dump a bunch of points into making something with this power, nice to know how many she would need. :)

Anyway, thanks for taking a look. Please let me know what ya think.

Edit II: Due to recent changes in Board Policy, replaced table with COPY+PASTE directly from HERO Designer.

[James Gillen]

Good ideas on the medallion. Except:
1. Desolid is the best absolute defense, but it doesn't allow you to attack unless everything you have (namely STR) is bought with +2 Affects Solid World Advantage. Buying it on the power itself is something of a cheat... but it may simplify things.
2. It's unclear whether the suppression effect works both ways, that is whether wearing this medallion would stop a channeler from using her powers. Since it was intended to be used by a non-channeler, this may be redundant.
3. Mat also gets a certain chill from the metal of the medallion when channeling is used around him, whether it targets him or not. This would be a Detect with Sense.

JG

[Nolgroth]

Good ideas on the medallion. Except:
1. Desolid is the best absolute defense, but it doesn't allow you to attack unless everything you have (namely STR) is bought with +2 Affects Solid World Advantage. Buying it on the power itself is something of a cheat... but it may simplify things.

HERO Fifth specifically makes Affects Physical World on Strength and other attacks a GM option when using Desolid to represent a defense against a specific kind of attack. I figure using the +2 Advantage is a nice compromise. That's why I also added the +2 Advantage to cover all Channeling abilities. I was also thinking that it may well be a cheat, but there are only two instances where this effect has been seen. One is the Foxhead medallion and the other is from the Gholam. In either case, I do not think a character will have to pay for it with their own points (except for the aforementioned channeler who creates one and I certainly wouldn't spend that many points on something that could be used against me. :) ).


2. It's unclear whether the suppression effect works both ways, that is whether wearing this medallion would stop a channeler from using her powers. Since it was intended to be used by a non-channeler, this may be redundant.

Just my personal opinion, but I think the Medallion would work both ways. I'm not married to the concept, but it just seems to make sense to me.


3. Mat also gets a certain chill from the metal of the medallion when channeling is used around him, whether it targets him or not. This would be a Detect with Sense.

Doh! I knew I was forgetting something. It's minor, but still a part of what the medallion does. I'm getting ready for bed, but I'll post an update tomorrow.

Thanks for all the input. I say that whenever somebody responds, but I mean it every time. Even if I don't necessarily agree with you on a point, it gives me a valid counterargument to think about. You and Eosin have been a great help to me.

Tomorrow I may have the courage to throw up my channeling rules. Those are sure to elicit more than a few raised eyebrows. :)

[James Gillen]

HERO Fifth specifically makes Affects Physical World on Strength and other attacks a GM option when using Desolid to represent a defense against a specific kind of attack. I figure using the +2 Advantage is a nice compromise. That's why I also added the +2 Advantage to cover all Channeling abilities.

Based on the model for Adjustment Powers, I figure that would be about right.




Thanks for all the input. I say that whenever somebody responds, but I mean it every time. Even if I don't necessarily agree with you on a point, it gives me a valid counterargument to think about. You and Eosin have been a great help to me.

Thank you for saying so. I'm not as big into Wheel of Time as my friend Gary, but he has let me read his books.

JG

[Eosin]

I like the desolid form myself - easy and absolute. Just like the medallion.

I look forward to seeing your channeling rules .... Like the rules for the Force we will all come at it a bit differently and IMO The One Power is even harder to model than the Force. It has to be able to accomodate Balefire and that is just flat out broken in terms of points using Hero System.

Before I wrote my One Power Rules I took a long look at Nusoard's Rules which contain a ton of good ideas. Ultimately I went a little different route but don't neglect those threads since they cover a number of issues that might slip by you.

[Nolgroth]

I like the desolid form myself - easy and absolute. Just like the medallion.
I do too, but I constantly concern myself with the question; Can this be used a cheat?. That's why I built the uber-suppress first. If I hadn't of stumbled across the specific example about using Desolid to represent a defense, I probably would have left it at that.

I look forward to seeing your channeling rules .... Like the rules for the Force we will all come at it a bit differently and IMO The One Power is even harder to model than the Force. It has to be able to accomodate Balefire and that is just flat out broken in terms of points using Hero System.
Balefire is a righteous pain in the arse to model in any non-arbitrary rules system. Since I never looked at d20 stuff, I don't even know how they model it there. I think that is a good thing, because a structure is starting to take place within the stuff I'm creating. Hmmmn. Before I post my channeling rules, I may want to look at Balefire and see how it fits.

As an aside, the rules I do have are in a highly prototypical form right now. I was more concerned with how to do Linking, Angreal, and Shielding than I was Balefire. Come to think on it....

Before I wrote my One Power Rules I took a long look at Nusoard's Rules which contain a ton of good ideas. Ultimately I went a little different route but don't neglect those threads since they cover a number of issues that might slip by you.
Those days were the proverbial good ol' days. We had a lot of discussion going on back then. Too bad so many of those people haven't been on the boards in a year or more. Nu Soard Graphite is a genius when it comes to using the HERO system. I've always thought that he has a lot of great ideas. I will take your advice with all the weight it carries...

[Nolgroth]

(Refer to Page 11 of this thread for the latest revision of the Channeling Rules.)

[James Gillen]

Very interesting. Especially the variant costs for male and female talent and the "kludge" on Balefire. That is effectively the way to do it (i.e. Time Travel).

JG

[Nolgroth]

Very interesting. Especially the variant costs for male and female talent and the "kludge" on Balefire. That is effectively the way to do it (i.e. Time Travel).

JG
Well, I suppose I could have made it one common use VPP with a bunch of different skill rolls, but dice rolling and I don't get along real well. I like my dice rolling to be sparse and to the point. :) The variant costs represent the differing strengths and weaknesses between the genders. I thought it was an effective way.

The whole Balefire construct is a kludge, but sometimes kludges are required in roleplaying games. HERO (thankfully) does not have an instant zap-death power, therefore you have to buy enough of an attack to do the deed, without sending the Active Points into the "Yeah, I can buy this power if I start a character today, play him every day for the next decade and have a REAL generous GM." range.

I wonder though, if I could apply the All or Nothing modifier from Transform onto the RKA. Sounds a bit munchkinish, but Balefire kills you if it hits you. If there is not enough Body done to kill somebody, then the Balefire should have logically missed the target. Hmmmnnn.

Naw, because that would mean that everybody would by their Body characteristic up in the off chance somebody uses Balefire against them. Tricky.

[Nolgroth]

Charging right along, I offer you a basic Aes Sedai package. It doesn't include any Ajah specific information, but it does include options for Warders and Foretelling. Of course the obligatory invitation to critique is extended.

AES SEDAI Package
COST SKILL
...5 Analyze Channeling Powers (INT)
...3 Bureaucratics (INT)
..15 Channeling (Power) (EGO) + 6
...9 Fast Channeling (EGO) + 3...
...3 High Society (PRE)
...3 KS: One Power (INT)
...3 KS: Tower Law and Customs (INT)
...3 KS: Identifying and Combating Shadowspawn (INT)
..10 Choose from the following: Combat Skill Levels (for Channeling), Conversation, Deduction, Disguise, Forgery, Knowledge Skill, Language, Oratory, Paramedic, Persuasion, Professional, Science, Skill Levels, or Trading
..54 Total Skills Cost


COST PERK
...3 Access - White Tower...
...3 Membership: Aes Sedai Ajah
..25 (Optional) Bound Warder- One 125/75 pt Follower
..10 Choose from the following list: Anonymity, Contacts, Deep Cover, False Identity, Favors, Wealth, Nobility..
..41 Total Perks Cost


COST TALENT
...0 Affinity: Air (Average)
...0 Affinity: Earth (Lesser)
...0 Affinity: Fire (Lesser)
...0 Affinity: Spirit (Average)
...0 Affinity: Water (Average)
...0 Total Talents Cost

A more detailed explanation of how Channeling works can be found at [insert URL here].

COST POWER
...1 Slow Aging (Life Support: Longevity 200 Years)
...5 +5 INT
..10 +5 EGO
...5 +5 PRE
..30 Source Pool: Endurance Reserve (15 END, 30 REC) Usable By Other (+1/4) (31 Active Points); Costs END (See Channeling Rules for explanation.; -1/2), Requires An EGO Roll (No Active Point penalty to Skill Roll; -1/4)
...6 +3 PER with all Sense Groups (9 Active Points); Only when Embracing the Source (-1/2)
..57 Total Powers Cost

...4 (Optional) Warder Bond (Mind Link with Warder. Can sense general direction, emotional state, and physical condition of Warder. Psychic Bond. 10 Active Points.) Feedback STUN Only (-1), Only to determine emotional and physical status (-1/2), Does not provide Mental Awareness(-1/4)
...7(Optional) Warder Bond (1d6 Transfer END to END 15 Active Points.) Only from Bonded Warder (-1).
..11 Total Optional Powers Cost

127 Total Character Cost (163 with Options)

COST DISADVANTAGE
..10 Distinctive Features: Ageless Features (Easily Concealed; Always Noticed and Causes Major Reaction; Detectable By Commonly-Used Senses)
..10 Hunted: White Tower 8- (Mo Pow, NCI, Watching)
..15 Physical Limitation: Cannot use the One Power as a weapon except in defense or herself, her warder or against Shadowspawn, Cannot use One Power to create weapons, Cannot Lie (Frequently, Greatly Impairing)
..10 Psychological Limitation: Lure of the One Power (Common, Moderate)
..15 Reputation: Tar Valon Witch, 11- (Extreme)
..15 Social Limitation: Subject to White Tower law and orders that may place Aes Sedai in possibly lethal situations (Occasionally, Severe)
..75 Total Disadvantages Cost

Notes: Once again, I've updated the Aes Sedai package to reflect a change in the Channeling Rules. I think the newer rules may be more fluid and easier to understand. There should be more consistency and fewer exceptions to how things are done.

[Eyendasky80]

B
alefire: 1D6RKA(15) AVLD/body(+2.5) Autofire-5(+1/2) Transdimensional(+1/2) AE-1hex(+1/2) Continuous(+1) For a total of 90 active points: [note: the transdimensional is through time. The AVLD is vs Force Field]

I would have built as a major transform, alive and well to erased from continuity with side-effects. I think side effects would be good because the more active points you put in a power, the worse it gets. So the more balefire, the more stuff falls apart.

edit: Also, I'm pretty sure someone of the forsaken has said that balefire can cut through shields.

[Nolgroth]

B
I would have built as a major transform, alive and well to erased from continuity with side-effects. I think side effects would be good because the more active points you put in a power, the worse it gets. So the more balefire, the more stuff falls apart.
A killing attack and major transform both cost 15 Active Points per die. Boils down to six of one, half-dozen of the other. You still have to account for all the changes that happen when the person's thread is burnt out. I suppose a large enough Transform, Area of Effect might do the trick, but that seems even more kludgy to me than the way I did it.

Side effects, such as some sort of collateral damage is a good idea. Now the question becomes what exactly are the nature of the side effects and do they change?


edit: Also, I'm pretty sure someone of the forsaken has said that balefire can cut through shields.
I seem to remember that Rand blocked balefire at the end of Dragon Reborn. Now it could have been some other "white bar of energy" Weave, but it seemed to be balefire from the description. Mind you, Rand was holding Callandor at that time so the massive influx of One Power energy may have been the only thing that saved him.

Besides, as I stated earlier, the role-playing aspects have to be slightly different than the novel ones. There have to be some kludges to make sure that there is a semblance of game balance.

Thanks for the input. Have to look at the Side Effect options to see if there is anything I want to add. Keep in mind, that these are just my ideas. If you use them as a springboard for your own interpretations, then so much the better. I'm just rather excited that I've actually had the mental energy to create the stuff that I have done so far and I still feel an urge to do more. :)

[Nolgroth]

Well, you cannot have an Aes Sedai without having a Warder (well, not counting Reds and those just raised to the shawl. :) ). This should provide a pretty good template to start out with.

Warder Package
COST..SKILL
...3..Analyze Combat (Int)
...3..Fast Draw (Dex)
...3..Riding (Dex)
...3..Shadowing (Dex)
...3..Stealth (Dex)
...5..WF: Common Melee Weapons, Common Missile Weapons, Off Hand
...9..+3 with Martial Maneuvers
..29..Total Skills Cost

Martial Maneuvers (Blademastery - Default Weapon Element: Blades)
COST..MANEUVER
...5..Defensive Strike (1/2 Phs, +1 OCV/+3 DCV, Weapon +2 DCV Strike)
...4..Martial Block (1/2 Phs, +2 OCV/+2 DCV, Block Abort)
...4..Martial Disarm (1/2 Phs, -1 OCV/ +1 DCV, Disarm +20 Str)
...4..Martial Strike (1/2 Phs, +0 OVC/+2 DCV, Weapon +4 DC)
...5..Offensive Strike (1/2 Phs, -2 OCV/+1 DCV, Weapon +6 DC Strike)
...4..Weapon Bind (1/2 Phs, +1 OCV/ +0 DCV, Bind +20 Str)
...8..+2 DC (Bonuses already figured in to maneuvers)
..34..Total Martial Arts Cost

Notes
This is a very basic list of skills that a Warder might possess. Most Warders would have many other skills to represent both their training and background. Combat skills, as allowed by the GM, are excellent choices.

COST..PERK
...0..Standard Quality Sword and Fancloth Cloak
...5..Masterwork Quality Sword and Fancloth Cloak
..10..Heron Mark Sword and Fancloth Cloak
..20..Power Wrought Sword and Fancloth Cloak

Notes
Warders are gifted with a sword and a fancloth cloak (the color-changing cloaks often described in the books). At its most basic level, this Perk costs no points and gives the Warder a sword of standard quality. Spending more points increases the quality of the sword's craftsmanship. The swords' are detailed in the Equipment section below.


COST..TALENT
...5..Rapid Healing (Fantasy HERO page 107)

Notes
Just about any Combat related Talent is appropriate for a Warder character. In particular, Combat Luck, Combat Sense, Deadly Blow, Fearless, Follow Through Attack, Lightsleep, and Mounted Warrior are appropriate Talents.


COST..POWER
...2..+2 Str
..10..+5 Rec
..10..+20 End
..10..+10 Stun
...6..Heightened Awareness (+2 PER with all Sense Groups)
..20..Sense Shadowspawn Detect 14- (Unusual Group), Increased Arc Of Per. (360 Degrees), Range, Sense
...5..Warder Bond Mind Link , with Aes Sedai, Can sense general location of, or direction to, bonded Aes Sedai., Psychic Bond (15 Active Points); Feedback STUN and BODY (-2), Does Not Provide Mental Awareness (-1/4)
..63..Total Powers Cost

.131..Total Character Cost (Does not include Sword quality Perk)


COST..CHARACTER DISADVANTAGES
..25..Enraged: Upon Bonded Aes Sedai's Death (Uncommon), go 14-, recover 8-, Rare Circumstance, Cannot Recover unless substantial effort is made to help Warder overcome the feeling of despair associated with losing his Aes Sedai.
...5..Must protect Aes Sedai: Aes Sedai 14- (As powerful as the PC; Useful Noncombat Position or Skills)
..15..Physical Limitation: Subject to Aes Sedai's orders (Compulsion through bond) (Infrequently, Fully Impairing)
...5..Reputation: Thrall of the White Tower/Aes Sedai, 8-
..15..Social Limitation: Subject to Tower Law and to orders which may lead to lethal situations (Occasionally, Severe)
..15..Watched: White Tower 8- (Mo Pow, NCI, PC has a Public ID or is otherwise very easy to find, Watching)
..75..Total Disadvantages (80, but max. disadvantages = 75)

Equipment
Fancloth Cloak Multipower, 20-point reserve, (20 Active Points); all slots OIF (-1/2)
(ultra) Invisibility to Sight Group (20 Active Points); Independent (-2), Chameleon (-1/2), OIF (-1/2)
(ultra) +5 with Shadowing and Stealth (15 Active Points); OIF (-1/2)


Standard Sword Killing Attack - Hand-To-Hand 1 1/2d6 (25 Active Points); Independent (-2), OAF (-1), STR Minimum 12 (-1/2), Real Weapon (-1/4), Required Hands One-And-A-Half-Handed (-1/4)

Masterwork Sword (+1 OCV) Killing Attack - Hand-To-Hand 2d6-1 (30 Active Points); Independent (-2), OAF (-1), STR Minimum 12 (-1/2), Real Weapon (-1/4), Required Hands One-And-A-Half-Handed (-1/4)

Heron Mark Sword (+3 OCV) Killing Attack - Hand-To-Hand 2d6+1 (50 Active Points); Independent (-2), OAF (-1), STR Minimum 12 (-1/2), Real Weapon (-1/4), Required Hands One-And-A-Half-Handed (-1/4)

Power Wrought Blade (+3 OCV) Killing Attack - Hand-To-Hand 2d6+1, Armor Piercing (+1/2) (67 Active Points); Independent (-2), OAF Unbreakable (-1), STR Minimum 10 (-1/2), Required Hands One-And-A-Half-Handed (-1/4), Real Weapon (-1/4)

Notes
This version of the Warder Archetype (package seems rather inappropriate due to the large amount of points pre-spent) has been updated with more skills, martial arts maneuvers and powers. Some of the write-ups have been altered since the original write-up was posted..

[Eosin]

Foretelling: Precognitive Clairsentience (Mystic Group), +5 to PER Roll (45 Active Points); No Conscious Control (-2), Precognition Only (-1), Vague and Unclear (-1/2)

I would take this out of the AS abilities and move it into a new category called One Power Talents - that section would cover things that not every AS can do like Foretelling, Healing, Sense Residue (Weave Sight with the ability to see it through time), Increased Senses, Weave Inversion, Balefire, and others.

The reasoning behind this is that no matter what your strength in the five powers, not everyone can Heal (or any of the other listed talents). It isn't that they don't have the power or can't see the weaves --- They just can't master certain facets of the One Power.


Channeling 12-
I assume this is a POWER roll? If so, what stat is it based off? I would suggest EGO.


Aes Sedai Perks

I agree with the vague rankings but I would provide a solid ranking in the White Tower hierarchy.

1 pt Novice
2 pt Accepted
3 pt Raised to the Shawl
4 pt Powerful Sister
5 pt Sitter
8 pt Ajah Head
9 pt Keeper
10 pt Amarylin

Something like that.


Susceptibility: Warder's Death, 3d6 damage Instant (Uncommon; Losing a Warder is rare)

I would do this a little differently. Lose the will to live: EGO drain, REC per month.

I will pull out the handy dandy FH book and look over the GIFT to see where you are going since this give me an idea but is still murkily defined.

[Eosin]

SAMPLE WEAVES

You are on the right trail but the Weaves need some more definition.

EXAMPLE: Healing is gradual effect over the duration of a day or so and has a side effect of prostigious hunger - if recipient goes more than 3 hours without a large meal they suffer 3d6 END drain (21 total END loss). This has a continuing duration of 1-5 days depending on the power of the Healing Weave.

Here is how I did Arms of Air

Arms of Air


Cost Power END
75 Aes Sedai Arms of Air: Multipower, 75-point reserve, all slots BOECV (Standard DEF applies; +1 1/4) (169 Active Points); all slots Requires A One Power Affinity Roll (RSR Skill is subject to Skill vs. Skill contests; -3/4), Spell (-1/2)
2u 1) Strength of Air: Telekinesis (20 STR), Fine Manipulation (40 Active Points); Requires A One Power Affinity Roll (RSR Skill is subject to Skill vs. Skill contests; -3/4), Spell (-1/2) 4
1u 2) Hammer of Air: EB 7d6 (35 Active Points); Requires A One Power Affinity Roll (RSR Skill is subject to Skill vs. Skill contests; -3/4), Spell (-1/2) 3
2u 3) Harden Air: Entangle 3d6, 5 DEF, Takes No Damage From Attacks All Attacks (+1/2) (60 Active Points); Requires A One Power Affinity Roll (RSR Skill is subject to Skill vs. Skill contests; -3/4), Spell (-1/2), Cannot Form Barriers (-1/4) 6
2u 4) Hurl: Telekinesis (50 STR) (75 Active Points); Only to throw (Only to throw opponent; -1), Requires A One Power Affinity Roll (RSR Skill is subject to Skill vs. Skill contests; -3/4), Spell (-1/2), Affects Whole Object (-1/4) 7
1u 5) Shield of Air: Missile Deflection (Any Ranged Attack), Full Range (+1) (40 Active Points); Requires A One Power Affinity Roll (RSR Skill is subject to Skill vs. Skill contests; -3/4), Costs Endurance (-1/2), Limited Coverage [61-180] Degrees (-1/2), Spell (-1/2)

Interestingly, I only have a minor quibble about your Balefire. Hero System lists 8d6 Killing as an Absolute Effect - don't roll the dice, if it hits they are dead (I always try to stick with an established canon rule if possible). The second quibble is AP - what might they hit that is hardened? Overall, I would just change it to 8d6 and drop the AP which is unnecessary in WOT.

The final thought is on the scope of Balefire and why doing things like a Transform doesn't work with it. Balefire should either be bought as Indirect or AE: Line since it totally destroys anything in its path (something that Transform cannot do). If you go with indirect then what you are saying is "Game effect wise it just burns a hole in anything out to its maximum range." But that really doesn't capture the effect we have seen in some of the books (disagree with this one particular scene or not) - Sammael and Rand sweep their Balefire archs across a field at each other leaning me towards AE: Line. As a game mechanic I prefer Indirect but similuationist wise it seems that line is more in line with the books.

[Eosin]

I seem to remember that Rand blocked balefire at the end of Dragon Reborn. Now it could have been some other "white bar of energy" Weave, but it seemed to be balefire from the description. Mind you, Rand was holding Callandor at that time so the massive influx of One Power energy may have been the only thing that saved him.

Callandor did indeed block Balefire BUT that is the only thing to have done so - I would chalk that up to the item and not a shield since the white hot bar seperated upon meeting callandor.

[James Gillen]

I believe both Aes Sedai and to a lesser extent their Warders get retarded aging, which makes an AS also eligible for a Distinctive Feature, "the ageless look." It was notable enough that Siuan (sp?), the former Amyrilin Seat, wasn't much recognized after being stilled.

JG

[Eosin]

I just looked over the Gift from FH. Not a bad way to simulate things. The hard part is going to be the nuiances - things like Healing (I suck as a channeler but I am the Bomb Healer or invert that). You might try a twist on that to be "STRONG XX" which is 1 character point for bump of 10 active pts towards your lowest strength pool.

EXAMPLE - Cordilla is a Yellow sister known for her healing talent but she was never ranked among the powerful sisters. It took her 10 years to gain the Shawl. She has ---

6 pts Affinity: Air (30 AP)
8 pts Affinity: Water (40 AP)
2 pts Affinity: Fire (5 AP) - Male
4 pts Affinity: Earth (10 AP) - Male
9 pts Affinity: Spirit (45 AP)

Healing weaves normally use all five affinities. In Cordillias case that means she can master, at best, 5 AP of healing. Luckily she bought the talent --- STRONG HEALER and spent 10 points. This means using a Healing weave she can max out at 105 AP (5 AP for Fire and 100 AP for Healing) but only for healing weaves.


Obviously you can alter to fit your own tastes. I will look at a list of Talents versus Universal Aes Sedai powers and try to post them for you tonight.

EDIT: You can also invert that ----- WEAK HEALER (5 Points) would lower your AP for Healing only.

[Nolgroth]

I would take this out of the AS abilities and move it into a new category called One Power Talents - that section would cover things that not every AS can do like Foretelling, Healing, Sense Residue (Weave Sight with the ability to see it through time), Increased Senses, Weave Inversion, Balefire, and others.

The reasoning behind this is that no matter what your strength in the five powers, not everyone can Heal (or any of the other listed talents). It isn't that they don't have the power or can't see the weaves --- They just can't master certain facets of the One Power.
Hurm. First of all, THANKS FOR THE FEEDBACK! :) I have read all of your responses and some of the ideas were ones that I just couldn't figure out. I wanted to get something out on the table so we could hack a channeling system together.

Talents versus taught Weaves. How do you define the difference? Almost any Aes Sedai has shown the ability to Heal, but some just seem to be able to do so better. I'm currently re-reading the books and haven't gotten to the point where I can reference and index the different abilities. Balefire does seem to be a Weave that can be taught/learned, though we don't know how Moiraine learned it. It could also very well be a Talent. Also, I think a lot of our perceptions about how channeling works comes from Rand's POV. He is almost certainly not a "typical" case. With LTT in his head, how much of Rand's channeling is spontaneous and how much of it is shared memory? Rand has specifically stated a few times "That was from Lews Therinn."


I assume this is a POWER roll? If so, what stat is it based off? I would suggest EGO.
Yes it is as a matter of fact, and based on EGO. One of the things I think HERO Designer could do MUCH better is add the ability to create package deals. As it is, I create a prefab, create a character, load prefab into character, export character to TXT file using HERO boards template, copy portion that I want to post. I could almost do it faster by straight text if I had the rules memorized. When I was younger, gamed more, and used rules more frequently in games, I actually could memorize the rules and even which page they were on. I don't know if it is the lack of a solid gaming group or age that has diminished this ability. Anyway, a very long answer to a simple question.



I agree with the vague rankings but I would provide a solid ranking in the White Tower hierarchy.
Hadn't really gotten into the ranking system yet. Most, if not all of what I've posted here was created on the fly.



I would do this a little differently. Lose the will to live: EGO drain, REC per month.
Not so much with the Aes Sedai, though that's a real handy one with the Warders. Maybe a lesser EGO drain or a quicker REC.


I will pull out the handy dandy FH book and look over the GIFT to see where you are going since this give me an idea but is still murkily defined.
Yes it is murkily defined. Best way to test an idea is to put it into the hands of somebody that a)Comes at the whole concept from a different view and b) Can break it. That fits the HERO boards users quite well. :)

[Nolgroth]

You are on the right trail but the Weaves need some more definition.

EXAMPLE: Healing is gradual effect over the duration of a day or so and has a side effect of prostigious hunger - if recipient goes more than 3 hours without a large meal they suffer 3d6 END drain (21 total END loss). This has a continuing duration of 1-5 days depending on the power of the Healing Weave.
And here is where we run into some issues with inconsistency. In some cases (Tam's and Mat's) we see it take time and they have to eat like pigs (well we assume so in Tam's case). In others, the wounds just seem to disappear and the characters feel immediately exhausted/hungry. So do you make up two different abilities for that?


Here is how I did Arms of Air
I have always liked the way you did that. Just don't want to violate too many rules by placing a Multipower into an already discounted VPP. :)


Interestingly, I only have a minor quibble about your Balefire. Hero System lists 8d6 Killing as an Absolute Effect - don't roll the dice, if it hits they are dead (I always try to stick with an established canon rule if possible). The second quibble is AP - what might they hit that is hardened? Overall, I would just change it to 8d6 and drop the AP which is unnecessary in WOT.
Again, I don't have all the rules memorized yet. If I'd have known that, I would have stuck to the canon rules. AP was added because they may hit an armored foe and it's specifically because it halves defenses, unless they are hardened. Now, with this 8d6k attack defined as an "instant kill, that seems less than necessary. Do you have a Book and Page reference?



The final thought is on the scope of Balefire and why doing things like a Transform doesn't work with it. Balefire should either be bought as Indirect or AE: Line since it totally destroys anything in its path (something that Transform cannot do). If you go with indirect then what you are saying is "Game effect wise it just burns a hole in anything out to its maximum range." But that really doesn't capture the effect we have seen in some of the books (disagree with this one particular scene or not) - Sammael and Rand sweep their Balefire archs across a field at each other leaning me towards AE: Line. As a game mechanic I prefer Indirect but similuationist wise it seems that line is more in line with the books.
Perhaps AOE Line and Continuous? That would burn a helluva lot of END. Almost would have to buy half-end just to be able to use it. Ouch.

[Eosin]

Talents versus taught Weaves. How do you define the difference?

There are some really through folks on the net who have compiled lists of various things. Balefire is the only one really in question among those I listed as being able to be learned by anyone. Cadsuianne can't heal to save her butt even though she is as powerful as Moirane and Suiane - which would put her Lowest Affinity at about 60-90 points depending on how you want to define them. Obviously something needs to modify access to weaves beyond just the ability to learn them in special cases like Healing or Earth Delving.

I will see what I can do about finding my great big list of what can't be learned - meaning it is a talent of the One Power given to only a small subset of channelers.

PS - The more I think about basing this off "The Gift" the more I like it. I am even considering chaning how I do it in my home game. Kudos to you - I was just talking about how my own system is already fully realized and participation in your thread was something like a scavenger hunt for little gems. Never expected to feel the desire to convert my own system :hex:

There is an up side to that - when I finish building characters they will be grossly compatible with your system.

:bmk:

[Nolgroth]

Callandor did indeed block Balefire BUT that is the only thing to have done so - I would chalk that up to the item and not a shield since the white hot bar seperated upon meeting callandor.
I don't disagree with the sheer book interpretation. Mind you, Callandor and cuendillar are the only two substances in the novels that seem to resist Balefire. Could you imagine how abusive an attack power without a defense would be though? If there are no defenses to Balefire for the "average" person, then this should be controlled with an iron fist by the GM.

Of course, if you could Dispel/Suppress Balefire before it strikes you....

A tricky problem.

[Eosin]

Do you have a Book and Page reference?

Absolute Rules: 251 of FH --- not sure where it is in the revised Edition.

On the healing, lesser healing doesn't seem to be near as taxing. Recall that healing in WOT uses the wounded persons reserves, hence those who are near death (no reserves) tend to have much more need for ready sources of energy (food). Minor healing (less than 2d6) rarely seems to do much more than make the person hungry for a day.

[Nolgroth]

I believe both Aes Sedai and to a lesser extent their Warders get retarded aging, which makes an AS also eligible for a Distinctive Feature, "the ageless look." It was notable enough that Siuan (sp?), the former Amyrilin Seat, wasn't much recognized after being stilled.

JG
Yeah, did the expanded lifespan and ageless features for the Aes Sedai. I don't think that the Warders live as long, but maybe a lower expanded lifespan for the Warder. Thanks.

[Nolgroth]

]PS - The more I think about basing this off "The Gift" the more I like it. I am even considering chaning how I do it in my home game. Kudos to you - I was just talking about how my own system is already fully realized and participation in your thread was something like a scavenger hunt for little gems. Never expected to feel the desire to convert my own system :hex:

There is an up side to that - when I finish building characters they will be grossly compatible with your system.

My ultimate goal is to create a HERO to Wheel of Time resource. I truly am glad that you like where this is going. I know there are some rough spots to smooth over as we go along. I just think that we could build a pretty complete and playable "genre" book for Wheel of Time. And gross compatibility is a good thing. :)

Now, the Gift was only the base idea. I have modified the system to be a multiple of EGO, instead of a straight pool. I figured that would make Linking, angreal and Shielding easier by having them Aid or Suppress EGO. I differed the costs for males and females as well. Well, you saw the above outline. Are you working on the same premis or using the Gift wholecloth?

[Nolgroth]

Eosin,
Just had a couple of brainstorms. Your comments on Talents being irrelevant to the strength of the channeler sparked a couple of ideas.

Idea 1. Based very much on how I saw your channeling system, have each Weave built on different strengths. I imagine that the Weave itself is taught the same and the only difference between them is how much strength the individual "brings to the table." The channeler chooses at which strength to attempt the Weave based on how large their Pool is for that element.

Idea 2. If Talents are not necessarily related to the strength of the channeler, then buy them as separate powers. The Turakian Age magic system and a few of the sample ones from Fantasy HERO have set the precedent in giving spells a discounted price of Real Cost divided by 3 or 5. Since most channelers have just a couple of Talents, that shouldn't be too much of problem or expense.

Idea 3. Weaves can duplicate Talents, but are dictated by the strength of the channeler and are designed at the levels.

That's about it at the moment, but I think we are getting closer.

So how do you knot Weaves without a major game imbalance? Some situations, especially with Shielding, were knotted for extremely long periods of time, such as when Lanfear shielded Asmodean so he could teach Rand or when Moghedian shielded Liandrin with a knot so convoluted that it would take some time for Liandrin to figure it out.

[Nolgroth]

Just to keep things rolling while I consider the whole Channeling issues. Sniffing, a la Hurin the Thief-Catcher from Sheinar.

Sniffing: Clairsentience Retrocognitive Smells the residue of violence done. (Smell/Taste And Perceive into a related Groups), Discriminatory, Tracking, Inherent (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2) (135 Active Points); Retrocognition Only (-1), Time Modifiers (-1/2), Always On (-1/2), Only for detecting areas where violence was done. (-1/2). Real Cost:38

EDIT: Per discussion below, added additional Power Limitation and changed Real Cost.

EDIT II: Due to the recent change in board policies, replaced table with a direct Copy+Paste from HERO Designer.

[Eyendasky80]

Just to keep things rolling while I consider the whole Channeling issues. Sniffing, a la Hurin the Thief-Catcher from Sheinar.

<table border="0" cellpadding="0"><tr><td align="right"><b>Cost </b></td><td><b>Power</b></td><td align="right"><b>END</b></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">45 </td><td><b><i>Sniffing: </i></b>Retrocognitive Smells the residue of violence done. Discriminatory, Tracking, Inherent (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2) (135 Active Points); Retrocognition Only (-1), Time Modifiers (-1/2), Always On (-1/2) </td><td valign="top" align="right">0</td></tr></table><b>Powers Cost:</b> 45

Only to detect violence should be worth some points as a modifier.

[Nolgroth]

Only to detect violence should be worth some points as a modifier.
You're probably right. What do think, a (-1/2)?

[James Gillen]

You're probably right. What do think, a (-1/2)?

It's usually measured by utility, and in an RPG combat situations oughtta occur at least a third of the time- so -1/2 would be right for that.

JG

[Nolgroth]

It's usually measured by utility, and in an RPG combat situations oughtta occur at least a third of the time- so -1/2 would be right for that.

JG
Thanks for the suggestion. Original post has been edited. I really appreciate when people help me get things together. I can really be a stingy bastiche when dealing with Power Modifiers. :)

[Nolgroth]

Absolute Rules: 251 of FH --- not sure where it is in the revised Edition.
Ouch! Not just 8d6 Killing, but 8d6 Killing NND (appropriate, but very expensive). And you'd have to buy the Does Body Advantage too. Lessee....That's (8*15) * 3 = 360 Active Points.

Okay. Time to ponder solutions.

[Nolgroth]

I just looked over the Gift from FH. Not a bad way to simulate things. The hard part is going to be the nuiances - things like Healing (I suck as a channeler but I am the Bomb Healer or invert that). You might try a twist on that to be "STRONG XX" which is 1 character point for bump of 10 active pts towards your lowest strength pool.

EXAMPLE - Cordilla is a Yellow sister known for her healing talent but she was never ranked among the powerful sisters. It took her 10 years to gain the Shawl. She has ---

6 pts Affinity: Air (30 AP)
8 pts Affinity: Water (40 AP)
2 pts Affinity: Fire (5 AP) - Male
4 pts Affinity: Earth (10 AP) - Male
9 pts Affinity: Spirit (45 AP)

Healing weaves normally use all five affinities. In Cordillias case that means she can master, at best, 5 AP of healing. Luckily she bought the talent --- STRONG HEALER and spent 10 points. This means using a Healing weave she can max out at 105 AP (5 AP for Fire and 100 AP for Healing) but only for healing weaves.



EDIT: You can also invert that ----- WEAK HEALER (5 Points) would lower your AP for Healing only.

Whoa, I must've scrolled right past some of that or was too tired for it to register. Here I was thinking, especially with the cost of Balefire and Healing that the Gift rules wouldn't work.

Not really a quibble, but standard Healing uses Air, Water, and Spirit. It was only after Nyneave started demonstrating the more advanced techniques that the Healing became a mix of the five powers. Now to make them unique, the more advanced Healing would not have the same Side Effects that the standard does.

(I do like the idea of calling the Five Powers affinities. Consider the name stolen. :) )

Now the idea of buying Talents as "bonuses" to AP limits for a specific effect is nothing short of brilliant. Balefire is still one of those extra tough things to stimulate. With the NND and Does Body Power Advantages, the Active Points comes to a whopping 410 pts (with EDM power). Well, Balefire isn't something I would want too much of in my games so making it expensive isn't too bad of an idea. (Ick. Just looked at the -41 Skill Roll modifier (yeah right) and the 41 END Cost.)

Ah ha! I was trying to figure out how to represent the ability to Shield. I almost like your Entangle method, but I based my original thought on multiples of EGO for the Five Power Affinities. This was solely for the purpose of simulating how Lanfear partially/mostly shielded Asmodean, but left a small trickle so he could teach Rand. I think I have an idea now. Instead of basing the FPAs on EGO, do it just like the Gift (with the extra cost for cross-gender abilities) and have the channelers buy a END Reserve with Difficult to Dispel at least one or twice on it. That way, the END Reserve can be Suppressed, but still leave a little hole for the exact simulation as above. Makes Linking much easier too. AID split between END Reserve and all One Power abilities.

Hurm. Much to look at and tweak. This was a great post to reply to. Got the creative juices flowing. Thanks.

[Eosin]

Surpress versus the END reserve is a great way of doing it. I think that may be the best avenue - the only campaign rule you need to lay down is the all weaves must draw their strength from the One Power END reserve. Where the mental entangle shines is that it does not automatically succeed or fail - the special effects of this can be percieved as
A) Failing to hit ECV = slicing the weave
B) Breaking out of the entangle = finding the hard knot or the opponent isn't strong enough to hold you.
C) Linking adds dramatically to the strength of the Entangle

Where you need to go now with the supress is to figure out how another channeler blocks or "slices" it and how one can manage to break out of it.

One the healing issue - yeap, reading New Spring brought to mind the fact that standard healing uses 3 affinities not all five. Whooops. :winkgrin:

I am glad you like the talent proposal. It seems to be simple and clean. I am thinking that the best way to represent Balefire is still out there somewhere and we still haven't found it. My own version of Balefire is 840 AP way, way, too costly to fit into anything. I may re-look at the suggested Transform with enviromental side effects.

I don't think there is a whole lot of the skeleton of channeling to hammer out - once that is done it would be nice to collate the rules and put some meat on their bones.

[James Gillen]

Surpress versus the END reserve is a great way of doing it. I think that may be the best avenue - the only campaign rule you need to lay down is the all weaves must draw their strength from the One Power END reserve.

Would that mean that someone with a 'booster' (like a ter'an'greal) would be able to partially bypass the Shielding?

JG

[Enforcer84]

oooh the wheel of the time keeps on churnin'
don't know if he'll ever wrap up.
The wheel of the time keeps on turnin'
how long can he keep this crap up.


sung to the tune of 'Wheel in the Sky'
:D

[James Gillen]

Haw!

[Nolgroth]

Surpress versus the END reserve is a great way of doing it. I think that may be the best avenue - the only campaign rule you need to lay down is the all weaves must draw their strength from the One Power END reserve. Where the mental entangle shines is that it does not automatically succeed or fail - the special effects of this can be percieved as
A) Failing to hit ECV = slicing the weave
B) Breaking out of the entangle = finding the hard knot or the opponent isn't strong enough to hold you.
C) Linking adds dramatically to the strength of the Entangle

Where you need to go now with the supress is to figure out how another channeler blocks or "slices" it and how one can manage to break out of it.
Very good points. It seemed to me that slicing the Weaves was a whole different ability. I could be wrong, but that actually seemed to be using one Weave to cut another one. Shielding seemed to be creating a Weave and stuffing it between the channeler and the Source.

As to the other, we can make the Suppress BoECV and add the Physical Manifestation Limitation to it. That way it has a DEF and BODY that the Shielded could use EGO to try and break. Find Weakness would be a Talent (?) that a Channeler could buy that allowed them to find the "hard" knots and break through them.

EDIT: For that matter, there could even be a Shieldbreaking Talent that allows the character to buy extra EGO, Only for the purpose of breaking a Shield (-1). It isn't explicity described in the novels, but it makes sense for the system we are working with.

How's that?



One the healing issue - yeap, reading New Spring brought to mind the fact that standard healing uses 3 affinities not all five. Whooops. :winkgrin:
My only issue with Healing, is that if we follow the novels, Healing should cover getting rid of Diseases and Toxins, as well as BODY. Very expensive in HERO terms. One thing I was thinking is that Delving would tell you what was wrong and the Healing could be "tuned" to the precise problem. That would cut the cost dramatically.


I am glad you like the talent proposal. It seems to be simple and clean. I am thinking that the best way to represent Balefire is still out there somewhere and we still haven't found it. My own version of Balefire is 840 AP way, way, too costly to fit into anything. I may re-look at the suggested Transform with enviromental side effects.
My New and Improved version of Balefire has a total Active cost of 460, a Real Cost of 204 and an END Cost of 36. That does cover the Absolute Effect with the EDM added on. I think that's about all we need to make it a workable solution. With the Talent rules as you presented them, it is still very doable, but only for those that want to spend a small fortune in points.


I don't think there is a whole lot of the skeleton of channeling to hammer out - once that is done it would be nice to collate the rules and put some meat on their bones.
Getting very close.

[Nolgroth]

Would that mean that someone with a 'booster' (like a ter'an'greal) would be able to partially bypass the Shielding?

JG
Not to quibble, just to clarify for your benefit, the ter'angreal are more like "magic items" in just about any other role-playing setting. Angreal and sa'angreal are what you are referring to. Since the Shielding is Suppressed, somebody who is using one of those would be much hard to shield and could batter back the attempt easier.

The way I look at it, angreal and sa'angreal AID both the Weaves and the END reserve. The degree is based on what exactly you are using and the individual item. Should probably start thinking of some definitional guidelines to the angreal and (much) more powerful sa'angreal.

[Eosin]

Would that mean that someone with a 'booster' (like a ter'an'greal) would be able to partially bypass the Shielding?

JG

It should be just about impossible to shield anyone with an Angrael or Sa'angrael.

[Eosin]

Very good points. It seemed to me that slicing the Weaves was a whole different ability. I could be wrong, but that actually seemed to be using one Weave to cut another one. Shielding seemed to be creating a Weave and stuffing it between the channeler and the Source.

As to the other, we can make the Suppress BoECV and add the Physical Manifestation Limitation to it. That way it has a DEF and BODY that the Shielded could use EGO to try and break. Find Weakness would be a Talent (?) that a Channeler could buy that allowed them to find the "hard" knots and break through them.

EDIT: For that matter, there could even be a Shieldbreaking Talent that allows the character to buy extra EGO, Only for the purpose of breaking a Shield (-1). It isn't explicity described in the novels, but it makes sense for the system we are working with.

How's that?

I need to think about this a little and review Supress to see what is what.

[James Gillen]

It should be just about impossible to shield anyone with an Angrael or Sa'angrael.

That would mean that the effect could be given a Limitation for "all or nothing."

JG

[Nolgroth]

That would mean that the effect could be given a Limitation for "all or nothing."

JG
It's kind of a touchy thing with that. Eosin's Entangle could just as easily represent an All or Nothing ability. In the narrative, there are at least two instances; one where a Shield is placed with a small "gap" to allow a trickle of energy through (Lanfear to Asmodean in The Dragon Reborn) and one where Nyneave was fighting Moghedian (Fires of Heaven). Both were trying to Shield the other and it was described as a gradual lessening in available power when one gained any slight advantage. The two were just so evenly matched that neither could gain the upper hand until Nyneave distracted Moghedian. On a similar vein, when Verin and Alanna tried to Shield Rand, it was described as a sluice gate coming down, which he pulled enough of the One Power through to throw back open the gate and then Shield them. (The sluice gate analogy was also used when Rand was successfully Shielded in Lord of Chaos).

Now the reason angreal/sa'angreal make so much of a difference is that they boost the power of the person that has one. Unless their was a massive amount of disparity between the channelers to begin with (for instance if Nyneave ws trying to shield Suane after she was stilled and restored), then the angreal/sa'angreal would definitely provide the edge that would just allow the possessor to overwhelm another channeler's attempt to Shield. So the statement Eosin made (if I am interpreting it correctly) is that the person with the edge (the angreal) is strong enough to just counter any attempts made by one who doesn't.

Just as an interesting aside, I wonder how a Circle (many Linked channelers) would fare against a single channeler with a sa'angreal.

[Eosin]

It's kind of a touchy thing with that. Eosin's Entangle could just as easily represent an All or Nothing ability. In the narrative, there are at least two instances; one where a Shield is placed with a small "gap" to allow a trickle of energy through (Lanfear to Asmodean in The Dragon Reborn) and one where Nyneave was fighting Moghedian (Fires of Heaven). Both were trying to Shield the other and it was described as a gradual lessening in available power when one gained any slight advantage. The two were just so evenly matched that neither could gain the upper hand until Nyneave distracted Moghedian. On a similar vein, when Verin and Alanna tried to Shield Rand, it was described as a sluice gate coming down, which he pulled enough of the One Power through to throw back open the gate and then Shield them. (The sluice gate analogy was also used when Rand was successfully Shielded in Lord of Chaos).

Now the reason angreal/sa'angreal make so much of a difference is that they boost the power of the person that has one. Unless their was a massive amount of disparity between the channelers to begin with (for instance if Nyneave ws trying to shield Suane after she was stilled and restored), then the angreal/sa'angreal would definitely provide the edge that would just allow the possessor to overwhelm another channeler's attempt to Shield. So the statement Eosin made (if I am interpreting it correctly) is that the person with the edge (the angreal) is strong enough to just counter any attempts made by one who doesn't.

Strange - we read the same stuff but see it differnetly :snicker: I always viewed Shielding as an all or nothing event barring the Asmodean issue which had him Shielded and then later Lanfear tied and inverted a shiled like weave around him. The text, to me, always seemed to be excititory rather and descriptive of how close the Shield got to cutting them off, as opposed to how their power dimmed as they were assaulted by the Shield. In much the same way that a boxing commentator might describe each blow in terms of how close it came to knocking someone out but in reality the only punch that matters is the KO.


Just as an interesting aside, I wonder how a Circle (many Linked channelers) would fare against a single channeler with a sa'angreal.

A circle of 13 could likely get anyone short of Callandor or the Chodan kal - However, I think that it would take 5-8 strong and efficient channelers to get Rand if he was ready and holding the little fat man (thinking that 4-5 are needed to get him (while holding the source) normally). That is just my opinion though and I could easily be over or underestimating it.

[Nolgroth]

Strange - we read the same stuff but see it differnetly :snicker: I always viewed Shielding as an all or nothing event barring the Asmodean issue which had him Shielded and then later Lanfear tied and inverted a shiled like weave around him. The text, to me, always seemed to be excititory rather and descriptive of how close the Shield got to cutting them off, as opposed to how their power dimmed as they were assaulted by the Shield. In much the same way that a boxing commentator might describe each blow in terms of how close it came to knocking someone out but in reality the only punch that matters is the KO.
Well, with the one exception of Asmodean, you are correct. In every other example, the Shield gets placed and that's about it. We do have multiple examples of people being strong enough to break out with or without it being knotted off. I suppose a single Weave to Shield and then another to keep a person all but Shielded. Maybe. Another of those little bumps in the road I suppose.

[Eosin]

I don't worry about the Lanfear only weave - getting shielding right all by itself it a headache :angel:

PS - here is an open invatation to swing by Call of the Horn and participate in another WOT project. We are gonna work on putting together a little project on my forums. Right now, I think it will be a well developed Borderland Fortress town but I am gonna give it a few more days (Poll on COTH (http://www.callofthehorn.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5308#post5308)). Whatever we end up doing should be useable in Hero as well as d20, since I play in Hero.

[Nolgroth]

I don't worry about the Lanfear only weave - getting shielding right all by itself it a headache :angel:
Well I'm willing to say that the Entangle is a usable solution and leave it at. Although, I'm also about choice, so I may just try to write up the Suppress with Physical manifestation idea too. Then again, conistency is the key so maybe...WHAT!?! I'm not being flaky. Okay, well maybe a little... :)


PS - here is an open invatation to swing by Call of the Horn and participate in another WOT project. We are gonna work on putting together a little project on my forums. Right now, I think it will be a well developed Borderland Fortress town but I am gonna give it a few more days (Poll on COTH (http://www.callofthehorn.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5308#post5308)). Whatever we end up doing should be useable in Hero as well as d20, since I play in Hero.
Sounds like a fun concept. I'll drop by and take a look. See if there is anything positive that I can add

[Nolgroth]

Oh crud. The new board policies make it impossible to display the stuff I posted earlier as anything but gobblegook. I wonder if it is possible to make a HERO Designer export template that uses the native discussion board formatting tags....

[James Gillen]

Oh crud. The new board policies make it impossible to display the stuff I posted earlier as anything but gobblegook. I wonder if it is possible to make a HERO Designer export template that uses the native discussion board formatting tags....

I think there's someone in the board staff who could help you...

JG

[Nolgroth]

I think there's someone in the board staff who could help you...

JG

I don't think the vBulletin software supports tables. There is a thread in the HERO Designer forum that suggested some ideas. They are really good ones too and, as long as you "white out" the little periods, it doesn't look too much like ASCII text either. :)

I'm in the process of cleaning up the packages and power write-ups. It takes a lot more time to do it manually, but I will get it done.

[Nolgroth]

Just edited the Warder Package/Archetype for readability and added some updates to it. Still have a couple of posts to update (namely the Wolfbrother, Dreamer and Sample Artifacts stats) for readability. Once I get to the point where those are updated, I'm going to tackle the Channeling subject once more and try to pound out some sort of semi-final draft rules for those.

Short term future goals are to create some pre-fabbed Weaves/Talents and write up some of the Talents that have to be separate powers (Foretelling, Inverting Weaves, etc.).

Thanks for reading.

[Nolgroth]

Finished updating the Dreamer, Wolfbrother and artifacts posts. There is a proto-type Wolfbrother package that I am not going to edit. Now onto the channeling rules.....

[Nolgroth]

PS - here is an open invatation to swing by Call of the Horn and participate in another WOT project.

I clicked on the link, but I'm not seeing any real progress there. Am I missing something?

Type at you soon.

[Nolgroth]

Eosin,
You are a genius, whether you realize it or not. I was taking a look at the Channeling rules and trying to make Linking a little more intuitive than how I had written it up. Let me just say that all my arguments against using an END Reserve are now gone. Not only does it provide a massive cool way to do Shielding, it also provides an exceptional way to do Linking.

Basically, Linking can (with your END Reserve idea) allow for a member of a Circle to "share" his END Reserve (Usable By Other-Simultaneously) and allows for his VPPs to be used as an AID to all Channeling powers (since he has to pay END to AID the circle leader's channeling abilities, I had to make the END Reserve a Simultaneous Usably By Other). Using the Succor and Standard Effect rules, it should be very easy to determine how much each member of the Circle can add to the leader's pool.

I think that settles a lot of the "nuts 'n' bolts" issues I was trying to resolve with the channeling rules. I also found a pretty comprehensive list of references to the One Power Weaves and Talents from the Wheel of Time Encyclopedia.

Prepare for disaster. :)

[Nolgroth]

CHANNELING
In Robert Jordan's “Wheel of Time” novels, magic is called Channeling. Those who have the ability to channel take threads of Air, Earth, Fire, Spirit and Water and weave those threads into complex patterns to create magical effects.

Gender has a great deal of impact on how magic works. Male and female channelers have different strengths and weaknesses. Males are stronger in Earth and Fire, while females have greater strength with Air and Water. Both are equally powerful with Spirit. There are other differences, but those are mostly for flavor and have little impact on how channeling works within the HERO System rules.

Channelers can enhance their abilities by using special artifacts known as Angreal or Sa'Angreal. They can also Link their abilities together to form Circles with much more power than a single channeler.

A channeler may also block another channeler from accessing the One Power. This is known as Shielding. A less often used ability has many names; Gentling, Severing, or Stilling, but whatever the name, it is used to permanently destroy a channeler's ability to sense and access the One Power.

The One Power is seductive. When a channeler embraces the Source, he seems more alive. The temptation to draw more and more of the One Power is always there. Those who fail to control the temptation may draw too much of the power and burn themselves out which destroys the channeler's ability as surely as Stilling. In some cases, they may kill themselves.


RULES
This magic system uses a lot of pre-generated spells known as Weaves. All Weaves have the Requires a Channeling Skill Roll and the Noisy Limitations. Other channelers of the same gender can detect when you are channeling and can even determine what Weaves your character is using by making an Analyze Weave skill roll. Male channelers can vaguely sense when a female channels, but the same is not true of a female. They require a complex Weave to do that.

To channel, a character needs to have a Channeling Skill, based on EGO, an END Reserve for powering the Weaves and Talents, and an Affinity for each of the Five Powers (Air, Earth, Fire, Spirit, and Water).


The Channeling Skill
The Channeling skill is EGO based and costs 3/2. It is used by almost all Channeling abilities. Many of the channeling abilities have significant penalties based on their Active Points, so it is recommended that the Channeling skill be upgraded with at least seven or eight skill levels.


Five Power Affinities
Threads of the Five Powers are woven together to create complex Weaves. Every channeler has a varying degree of strength within these Five Powers. Referred to as Affinities, the Five Powers are represented by three differing strengths; Lesser, Average, and Greater.

The channeler's gender plays a large part in the default Affinities for a character and the cost of improving the strength of a given Affinity. Woman are strongest in Air and Water and weakest in Earth and Fire. Males are the opposite. Both genders have roughly the same strength in Spirit.

Female channelers start out with Average ratings in Air, Spirit and Water. It costs them 10 points each to raise one of those Affinities to a Greater strength. They start out with Lesser rating in Earth and Fire. It costs 10 points each to raise these two Affinities from Lesser to Average and another 15 points to raise each of them to Greater.

Male channelers have an opposite allocation of Affinities. They start out with Average ratings in Earth, Fire and Spirit. It costs them 10 points each to raise these Affinities to Greater rating. They start out with Lesser rating in Air and Water. It costs 10 points each to raise them to Average and 15 points each to improve them to Greater.

It is possible for a channeler to be weaker than other members of the same gender in a specific Affinity. A Physical Limitation: Lesser Affinity (Affinity) is purchased at the Frequently, Slightly level (10 points) to simulate this weakness. Only those affinities that the character gets at the Average level (Air and Water for females; Earth and Fire for males; Spirit for either), for free, may be limited in this way.


The Source Reserve
A channeler must purchase an END Reserve to power his Weaves. The size of the Reserve is entirely up to the player, but the Recovery must be purchased just as large as the END Reserve times the character's Speed. The Recovery is pro-rated, basically meaning that the character Recovers enough points to completely fill the Reserve on each of his phases. The END Reserve is also an integral part of Linking and must be purchased with the Usable By Others. Also, it is physically tiring to use the END Reserve, so Costs END must be applied, to the Recovery,as well. This may seem confusing, but it basically allows a channeler to use the One Power without having to wait for it to Recover, the One Power can be Shielded (see below) and the character will eventually tire from using the One Power. All Weaves and Talents draw power from the END Reserve.

Embracing the Source
Before a channeler can form even a single Weave, they must embrace the Source. This requires an EGO roll and a ½ Phase action. While embracing the Source, the character is more aware of his surroundings and everything seems more real to him. To reflect this, the character should buy bonuses to PER with all senses, with the Power Limitation: Only while embracing the Source (-½).


Note: According to the HERO System Fifth Edition Frequently Asked Questions document (http://www.herogames.com/SupportFAQs/revisedrules/POWERS.htm (http://../SupportFAQs/revisedrules/POWERS.htm)), it is technically illegal to add Costs End to an END Reserve. However, to simulate both that all the One Power abilities are fueled by the END Reserve (which can be shielded) and that channeling is a physically demanding task, I am making a deliberate decision to break that rule.


Tip! Depending on how many concurrent abilties you want your channeler to be able to maintain and whether or not he has an expensive Talent (like Traveling or Balefire) a good rule of thumb is to purchase an END Reserve of about 15 - 25, higher for more powerful Talents.

Example:
Steffan the Asha'man has a Source (END) Reserve of 25 with a Recovery of 75 (Speed 3) (total 77 Active Points). He purchases Usable By Other at (+¼) for a Final Active Cost of 98. He must then apply the Requires an EGO Roll(-¼) and Costs END (-½) Power Limitations to the Recovery. The final cost of his pool is 54 Real Cost. This is a pretty powerful reserve, allowing Steffan to channel up to 250 Active Points. If he wanted to save points, he could purchase a smaller Source Reserve, say 15 with a REC of 45 ( 58 Active with Advantages, 34 Real Cost ). That would still give him a respectable sized Source Reserve.


Channeling
Channeling Checklist
Embrace the Source. Roll an EGO Check at -1 per 10 Active Points in the END Reserve. Just holding onto the Source is not very draining, it costs 1 END per Phase to hold. The amount of the END Reserve used to power Weaves dictates how much personal END is spent when the Source is actually being used to do something.
Roll a Channeling Skill Roll for the Weave being Channeled. Calculate by how much the skill roll is made.
Compare which of the Five Powers are used in the Weave.
The Skill Roll Penalty assumes an Average strength Affinity. If the channeler has a Lesser strength in the appropriate Affinity, double the Skill Roll Penalty. If the character has a Greater strength, halve the Skill Roll Penalty.

Multiply the value of the lowest applicable affinity that the character has by how much the skill roll was made by, after the Skill Roll Penalty (in other words, the Skill Roll Penalty is just a shorthand method of saying that the player rolled well enough to produce the Active Points necessary for a minimal effect).


Multiply Lesser Affinities by Five x Number Skill Roll made by.

Multiply Average Affinities by Ten x Number Skill Roll made by.

Multiply Greater Affinities by Twenty x Number Skill Roll made by.
The final product from above is the amount of Active Points added to the Weave. Each Weave has a notation about how many Active Points are required for each increment of effect. Unless noted in the Weave description or approved by the GM, there are no "half-increment" effects. If the player cannot generate enough Active Points to equal a full increment, then the last full increment, even if it is only the base success level, is used.

If the Channeling skill roll is made by enough of a margin to push the Active Points high enough that the END cost would exceed the size of the Source Pool (END reserve), then the channeler has one of two options;
Use only enough Active Points to keep the END cost within the amount of the Source Pool or,
Use all of the Active Points. All END cost that exceeds the Source Pool is multiplied by two and subtracted from the personal END of the channeler. The channeler risks Burn Out (see below) if he channels more of the One Power than he has END in his Source pool.
Determine the final affect(s) of whatever Weave was channeled.
[Optional] Roll for Lure of the One Power Psychological Limitations.
[Optional] Roll for Taint.
Record the personal END cost from using the Source END Reserve.
Detecting Channeling
Channeling can easily be detected by other channelers of the same gender. Those with an Analyze Channeling roll can see what Affinities are used in a Weave and possibly what the effects are or will be.

Male channelers have an advantage over female channelers, in this regard. A male channeler can detect when a female is channeling He cannot see her Weaves, and thuscannot determine what she is doing. Females do not have any way of knowing if a male is channeling other than by observing the obvious effects of channeling.

The chance of Detecting channeling is based on normal Perception rules with a +1 bonus added per 10 Active Points being channeled.

Linking and Circles
Multiple channeler's may Link together to form a Circle. Female channelers may do this with other female channelers or with male channelers. Males require a female to Link. Up to thirteen females may Link without the presence of a male channeler. With a male channeler, the circle may add up to another thirteen females and so on. When two or more channelers are going to Link, one member is selected (usually the strongest in the One Power) and the others surrender their power to him (or her) allowing that person to draw on their strength to aid him.

In rules terms, every Source Pool is bought with Usable By Others Power Advantage. In addition, each member of the circle adds EGO/5 to the leader's Channeling Skill roll

Using Angreal/Sa'Angreal
Angreal and Sa'Angreal work in a similar fashion. They provide a Succor to END Reserve and a bonus to the Channeling Skill roll. Keep in mind that Angreal and Sa'Angreal are both items and bought with the 0 END Power Advantage. That makes these items extremely powerful. In the Wheel of Time novels, they were rare. They should also be so in your games.
Both Linking and Angreal/Sa'Angreal prevent the chance of Burn Out (see below) by acting as a buffer between the channeler and the Source.

Shielding
Shielding is the act of one channeler temporarily depriving another channelers access to the One Power by placing a shield between the channeler and the Source. A Shield is bought as an Entangle with the following Power Modifiers:

Stops A Given Sense Group - Magical Group (+10 points), Takes No Damage From Attacks (+¼), BOECV (+1), Invisible to Sight Group, Hide effects of Power (+1); Set Effect – entangles the END Reserve (-1), Stops Working if Shielding Channeler Is Stunned (-½), Requires A Channeling Skill Roll (-½), Cannot Form Barriers (-¼), Concentration (½ DCV; -¼), Costs END To Maintain (Half END Cost; -¼), Subject To Range Modifier (-¼)

A Shielded channeler may attempt to break free of the Shield with an EGO /5 + the strength of their Spirit Affinity /5 roll. For purposes of breaking free of a Shield, the rating is the amount of Active Points that the rating gives for each point rolled beyond success (5, 10, and 20 respectively).

Stilling
If Shielding is something that any Channeler may find unpleasant, Stilling (also called Gentling or Severing) is a much worse fate. A character who has been Stilled is permanently cut off from the Source and may never channel again. Stilling is purchased as a Major Transformation: Channeler to Non-Channeler with the All or Nothing (-½) Power Limitation. Often, it requires several Linked channelers to successfully Still somebody.

In the Wheel of Time novels, a way to Heal Stilling was developed. Depending on when the campaign is set, this method may (eventually) be available for a Stilled character. This is entirely up to the Game Master and may even be unavailable after the method was developed, depending on circumstances that occur during play.


Designing Weaves and Talents
Weaves are designed as powers. Typically, a Weave is built with few Active Points, just enough to create a very minimal effect. Additional Active Points are gained by having a high margin of success with Channeling skill rolls. Some Weaves have a set number of Active Points built into them to either best simulate the power under HERO rules or because the particular HERO power only requires that much.

The cost of a Weave is Real Cost / 5.

Each Weave will have a notation describing how many Active Points are required to raise the increment of effect. For example, if a power costs 15 Active Points at base, then it will typically cost 15 points per each successive increment.

A channeler may attempt to create a Weave spontaneously by taking a Full Phase and making a Channeling skill roll at -4, plus the penalty for the Active Points in the Weave. If the roll succeeds, then the channeler may use the spontaneous Weave once. He may also add it to his list of known Weaves, but must spend Experience Points to do so. At the GM's option, the player may buy part of the Weave at first, and then “pay off” the remainder of cost later. The full cost must still be paid in order to actually use the Weave without the -4 penalty.

Channeling Talents
Most channelers have Talents; similar to Weaves, but more powerful. A Talent is purchased as additional Skill Levels, only for the purpose of increasing the Active Points of a particular Weave. Some particularly powerful Weaves, such as Balefire, Healing, or Traveling are built on so many Active Points that they almost require the extra Skill Levels to generate enough Active Points to use. Remember that the END Cost for these mighty powers are limited by the Source Pool, so not every channeler will be able to use them.

Augmentative Talents
Some Talents are bought as Powers rather than by adding points to the Affinities. These talents are usually based on either a Detect or the Naked Power Advantage power. Some examples include Inverting the Weave (Naked Advantage: Invisible Power Effects – Channeling Sense), recognizing Ta'avern (Detect (Sense) Ta'avern) and Knotting Weaves (Naked Advantage: Uncontrolled with Duration Advantages). When purchasing a Talent that has its cost dictated by the power of a Weave or other Talent, it should be purchased to affect the highest Active Point cost. Like Weaves, Augmentative Talents cost Real Points / 5.


Dangers of the One Power
The Lure of the One Power
The One Power is a valuable asset, but it comes with its own sets of danger. The most often encountered is the seductiveness of the One Power. While embracing the One Power, the world seems more alive and more vibrant than without the Source. This lure often leads to those of weak will to draw more of the One Power than they can safely handle, often leading to Burn-Out or even death.

This is a difficult situation to role-play. Most players would not want to spend the time creating a channeler, only to to have that character transformed into something else by the whim of a dice roll. Therefore, the Lure of the One Power is an Optional Psychological Limitation that can be taken at any Intensity (see HERO Fifth Edition rules page 219 or HERO System Fifth Edition: Revised rules page 336-337 for more details on Psychological Limitations). If the EGO roll fails, the character deliberately draws in more of the One Power than is safe. For each point that the roll failed, the character draws in 10 Active Points more of the One Power than he can safely handle. The total Active Points are then used to determine if the channeler Burns Out (see below).

Burn Out
Channeling more of the One Power than is safe, whether intentional or not, can lead to Burn Out, or losing the ability to channel forever. Whenever the END cost of a Weave or even multiple Weaves exceeds the amount of the Source Pool, a Major Transformation is rolled at a number of Active Points equal to the Active Cost of the Source Pool plus the amount that exceeded the END in the Source pool (for every END that exceeds the END in the Source Pool, add 10 Active Points).

If the final result on the dice is equal to 2x the channeler's BODY characteristic, then he loses the ability to channel. This effect is all or nothing, so any result less than 2x Body is ignored.

Forced Conversion
A very rare ability among the Shadowspawn and Darkfriends is the ability to forcibly convert a channeler to the Shadow. This requires thirteen Linked channelers and thirteen Myrdraal. One way to simulate this is to purchase a Major Transformation with the Ritual Power Limitation (Fantasy HERO Page 125). This is not recommended as a staple of any Wheel of Time game, as it can potentially cause disconnect and disruption with a player who doesn't want to play a villain.

If used against a player character, it should really be at the player's request or with his agreement. In this way, it becomes a plot hook to help further the overall campaign story and should have some “cure” built into the storyline. An even better way to use Forced Conversion is against an NPC. In that case, the affects are automatic and depend entirely on plotting.

The Taint on Saidin
Male channelers, in some Ages, face the constant threat of death or corruption by the Dark One's Taint. If your campaign takes place between the Strike at Shayul Ghul and the events of Winter's Heart, then male channelers without the benefit of the Dark One's protection will eventually go mad or die from a disease that rots them from the inside out.

While the following rules are optional, you may wish to implement them in a campaign based in an era that the Taint exists. Every attempt has been made to make the Taint rules playable and keep control of the character in the hands of his player.

The Taint is defined as a gradual Major Transformation from sane to insane. This is purchased as a Minor Side Effect added to the Source Reserve which occurs whenever the Source Reserve is used (-½). Every time the male channels, the Active Cost of the entire Source Reserve is used to calculate the number of dice used in the Transformation (remember that the minimum cost for the Minor Side Effect is 15 Active Points or ¼ the Active Cost of the Source Reserve, whichever is higher). The Body accumulated on the Transform dice does heal at the standard Recovery (personal, not Source) per month, with one exception. Each full month of channeling incurs one permanent point of Body towards the transformation. A “full month of channeling” is defined as channeling at least once per day for at least two-thirds of the month.

The exact effects of the Taint are up to the individual GM to decide. Almost in all cases, the Transformation should add some sort of Psychological Limitation or perhaps even Enraged or Berserk. The character need not necessarily be removed from play. An insane character can certainly be a challenge to play, but as long as he is not outright destructive, the player should be allowed to keep the character.

Another affect of the Taint is the dreaded rotting disease brought on by the corruption of the Dark One's touch on Saidin. This is a much harsher side effect of the Taint and one that is even more difficult to put into play. Essentially, the rotting disease is also bought as a Major Transformation that permanently drains one point of BODY and CON per doubling of Body on the dice. It runs concurrent to the insanity transformation and the amount of Transform Body is calculated separately. It often described in the Wheel of Time books as a race to see whether a male channeler would go insane or rot from the inside out first. Incidentally, as the character's Body characteristic lowers, the rot speeds up.

As mentioned previously, the rules for Taint are entirely optional and should be used with some level of discretion to avoid characters that become instantly unplayable or a character that becomes a burden to play over time.

Resist Taint
While there is no defense for the Taint, a talent called Resist Taint may be purchased. Resist Taint is bought as +10 Body, only for resisting the affects of the Taint (-1) for 10 points. This will make it more difficult for the Taint to affect the character in the short term, and add a significant amount of time to resist the long-term affects of the Taint.

[Nolgroth]

Anybody know which of the Five Powers are used in Skimming and Traveling? I'm working on a compilation of Weaves and Talents. I have a pretty good resource for many of them, but Skimming and Traveling are not listed. I tried to Google, but all I've found are comparisons between the two.

[TheQuestionMan]

Shadow Hero - Role Master's Shadow World Campaign Setting and Conversion
http://www.hierax.com/hero/shadow/

HERO Characteristic Conversion (Str)
http://www.hierax.com/hero/house/cha.html

Spell Law?
http://herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16817&highlight=Spell+Law

Shadow World - Master Atlas
http://www.icewebring.com/ICE_Products/SW/SW_6000_Master_Atlas.shtml

Spell Law Hero
http://herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?p=433566&highlight=Spell+Law+Hero#post433566

More Later

QM

[James Gillen]

Anybody know which of the Five Powers are used in Skimming and Traveling? I'm working on a compilation of Weaves and Talents. I have a pretty good resource for many of them, but Skimming and Traveling are not listed. I tried to Google, but all I've found are comparisons between the two.

The closest "canon" source would be the D20 corebook for WoT. But I don't have it.

JG

[Nolgroth]

Shadow Hero - Role Master's Shadow World Campaign Setting and Conversion
QM

Well I really liked the Shadow World stuff, but it didn't quite answer my question. :)

Thanks for the links though.

[TheQuestionMan]

Well I really liked the Shadow World stuff, but it didn't quite answer my question. :)

Thanks for the links though.

IIRC, I do believe however that he does discuss the mechanics and conversion to Hero. If not I think I will hunt down the one that did.

2.3.08: What is the difference between Skimming and Traveling?
http://www.arkane-systems.net/faqs/WOTFAQ/2_nondark/2.3_one-power/2.3.08_travel-skim.html


GURPS Wheel of Time - Magic
http://www.ajs.com/~ajs/WoT/Magic.html

Let me know and I will continue the Hunt.

QM

[Nolgroth]

IIRC, I do believe however that he does discuss the mechanics and conversion to Hero. If not I think I will hunt down the one that did.

2.3.08: What is the difference between Skimming and Traveling?
http://www.arkane-systems.net/faqs/WOTFAQ/2_nondark/2.3_one-power/2.3.08_travel-skim.html (http://www.arkane-systems.net/faqs/WOTFAQ/2_nondark/2.3_one-power/2.3.08_travel-skim.html)


I've read this one. Could summary of what the differences are, but still lacks information on which of the Five Powers (Air, Earth, Fire, Spirit, and Water) are used in the Traveling Weave.



GURPS Wheel of Time - Magic
http://www.ajs.com/~ajs/WoT/Magic.html (http://www.ajs.com/%7Eajs/WoT/Magic.html)

Let me know and I will continue the Hunt.

QM

Has some good examples but Traveling seems to be left out. I think that Mr. Jordan never stated exactly which of the Five Powers are used in Traveling, so that presents a unique problem when it comes to developing a role-playing construct.

Thanks a bunch for the information. I'll also continue the hunt. Maybe it's out there somewhere.

[Nolgroth]

Well I've found one site http://www.angelfire.com/grrl/yellow_ajah/Weaves.html that seems to think Traveling is based on Earth and Spirit. Doesn't sound right to me, but I think Air and Earth make a certain amount of sense. Will continue the search, though I may enter the int'er'net too fully and place my life in jeopardy.

[Nolgroth]

Channeling Weaves and Talents



Note: To avoid confusion, Talent (capital T) refers to an ability connected with channeling in some way. The word talent (lowercase t) refers to the HERO system talents.

Weaves and Channeling Talents

Aligning the Matrix (Earth)
Used to make metals stronger.
Aligning the Matrix: Minor Transform 1d6 (Makes metals stronger. Add +1 DEF to metal objects for each doubling of the objects Body rolled on the dice.) (10 Active Points); Requires A Channeling Skill Roll (-1/2), Visible (Noisy; -1/4)
Active Cost: 10 Real Cost: 6 Base END Cost: 1 Skill Roll: -1 Phase: 0
Cost per Increment: 10 Active Points adds 1d6 Transformation. Each additional die increases END cost by 1.
Balefire (Fire and Spirit)
Balefire is one of the most powerful and feared abilities of those who can channel. With it, one can burn the thread of a victim out of the Pattern. Balefire was used extensively during the War of Shadow, destroying entire cities, until it was discovered that the entire Pattern was threatened.
Balefire: (Total: 450 Active Cost, 213 Real Cost) Killing Attack - Ranged 8d6, Indirect (Same origin, always fired away from attacker; +1/4), No Normal Defense ([Standard]; +1), Does BODY (+1) (390 Active Points); Spell (-1/2), Requires A Channeling Skill Roll (Active Point penalty to Skill Roll is -1 per 10 Active Points; -1/4), Noisy (-1/4) (Real Cost: 195) plus Extra-Dimensional Movement (Channeler moves to a “Dimension” where everything is identical, except that the target of the Balefire no longer exists and everything that target did for the last Combat Turn is undone.), Channeler may push the time further down the Time Chart. For each +2 he makes the Channeling Skill roll, he may elect to move the time interval down one spot on the Time Chart., Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2) (60 Active Points); no Noncombat movement (-1/4), Noisy (-1/4) (Real Cost: 40)
Active Cost: 450 Real Cost: 213 END Cost: 39 Skill Roll: -39 Phase: 1/2
Cost per Increment: Not Applicable. Set effect. Considered an Absolute Effect per Fantasy HERO page 251.
Call Lightning (Air and Fire)
This is a just one variant of a Weave used to cause lightning to fall upon enemies. It doesn't require a pre-existing storm, but it does have to be used outside.
Call Lightning: Killing Attack - Ranged 1d6, Indirect (Always comes from the sky; +1/4), Explosion (+1/2) (26 Active Points); Requires A Channeling Skill Roll (-1/2), Spell (-1/2), Noisy (-1/4), Can only be used outside (-1/4)
Active Cost: 26 Real Cost: 10 Base END Cost: 3 Skill Roll: -3 Phase: 1/2
Cost per Increment: 26 Active Points adds 1d6 Ranged Killing Attack. Each incremental die of damage adds 3 END cost.
Compulsion (Spirit)
One of the Forbidden Talents among Aes Sedai, Compulsion allows one to dominate another's will, making them do what they would not otherwise.
Compulsion: Mind Control 1d6 (5 Active Points); Requires A Channeling Skill Roll (-1/2), Does Not Provide Mental Awareness (-1/4), Noisy (-1/4)
Active Cost: 5 Real Cost: 2 END Cost: 1 Skill Roll: -1 Phase: 1/2
Cost per Increment: 5 Active Points adds 1d6 Mind Control. The first increment adds no additional END Cost. Every two increments from there adds 1 to END Cost.
Delving (Air, Spirit, and Water)
Delving allows the channeler to detect exactly what is wrong with a subject's health.
Delving: Detect General Health and Condition of Target 13- (Unusual Group), Discriminatory, Analyze (15 Active Points); Requires A Channeling Skill Roll (-1/2), Noisy (-1/4)
Active Cost: 15 Real Cost: 8 END Cost: 1 Skill Roll: -1 Phase: 0
Cost per Increment: Not Applicable - Set Effect
Eavesdropping (Air and Fire)
A common Weave among Wilders and often learned even before any official training, Eavesdropping allows a channeler to hear things from a distance. Most require a stone or gem to make it work.
Eavesdropping: Clairsentience (Hearing Group) (20 Active Points); Requires A Channeling Roll (-1/2), IAF (Any stone; -1/2), Noisy (-1/4)
Active Cost: 20 Real Cost: 9 END Cost: 2 Skill Roll: -2 Phase: 0
Cost per Increment: 2 Active Points per +1 PER with Hearing Group. For every +5 PER, END Cost is increased by 1 END.
Folded Light (Air and Fire)
Folded Light allows for a channeler to bend light around himself, making himself invisible.
Folded Light: Invisibility to Sight Group (20 Active Points); Requires A Channeling Skill Roll (-1/2), Noisy (-1/4)
Active Cost: 20 Real Cost: 11 End Cost: 2 Skill Roll: -2 Phase: 0
Cost per Increment: Not Applicable - Set Effect
Globe of Light (Air and Fire)
Creates a small ball of light.
Globe of Light: Sight Group Images 1" radius (10 Active Points); Only To Create Light (-1), Requires A Channeling Roll (-1/2), Noisy (-1/4)
Active Cost: 10 Real Cost: 4 End Cost: 1 Skill Roll: -1 Phase: 0
Cost per Increment: 3 Active Points to Increase Sight Group PER Rolls in AOE or; 3 Active Points to double radius. For every +3 to PER or every 3 doublings of size, END cost is increased by 1.
Healing (see below)
Healing comes in two forms. The lesser form heals and cures anything, but uses much of the Healed person's reserves and leaves the subject weakened, exhausted and hungry. The greater form uses all of the Five Powers and does require anything from the subject.
Healing, Greater (Air, Earth, Fire, Spirit and Water): (Total: 29 Active Cost, 15 Real Cost) Healing BODY 1d6 (10 Active Points); Others Only (-1/2), Requires A Channeling Skill Roll (-1/2), Noisy (-1/4) (Real Cost: 4) plus Dispel Poisons and Toxins 3d6 (9 Active Points); Linked (Healing; -1/2), Noisy (-1/4) (Real Cost: 5) plus Minor Transform 1d6 (Diseased person into Healthy person) (10 Active Points); Linked (Healing; -1/2), Noisy (-1/4) (Real Cost: 6)
Active Cost: 29 Real Cost: 15 Base END Cost: 3 Skill Roll: -3
Cost per Increment: 30 Active Points to increase Healing by1d6, Dispel by 3d6, and Transform by 1d6. At the second and fifth Increments, one additional Dispel die is added (for a total of 7d6 and 17d6). Each increment increases the END cost by 3 points. End cost is increased by +3 for every Increment.


Healing, Lesser (Air, Spirit and Water): (Total: 29 Active Cost, 14 Real Cost) Healing BODY 1d6 (10 Active Points); Side Effects, Side Effect occurs automatically whenever Power is used (Side Effect only affects the recipient of the benefits of the Power, Side Effect occurs unless the character eats and rests for a number of hours equal to the Body Healed.; 4d6 END Drain and 2d6 STR Drain (Gradual Effect 6 Hours); -1), Others Only (-1/2), Requires A Channeling Skill Roll (-1/2), Noisy (-1/4) (Real Cost: 3) plus Dispel Poisons and Toxins 3d6 (9 Active Points); Linked (Healing; -1/2), Noisy (-1/4) (Real Cost: 5) plus Minor Transform 3d6 (Diseased person into Healthy person) (10 Active Points); Linked (Healing; -1/2), Noisy (-1/4) (Real Cost: 6)
Active Cost: 29 Real Cost: 14 END Cost: 3 Skill Roll: -3
Cost per Increment: As Greater Healing. At seventh increment, add 1d6 END Drain. At eighth increment, add 1d6 END Drain. At ninth increment, add 1d6 STR Drain. Continue with above pattern of adding additional Side Effect dice for every 10 Active Points added to Healing portion of the power. The Healing channeler can choose how much power they want to place into the Healing, so as not to draw too much of the target's own strength from them. It is possible to kill a person with Healing, especially if they are already near death. End cost is increased by +3 for every Increment. Heal Stilling (Fire and Spirit)
Probably the greatest fear of any channeler is to be cut off from the Source permanently. In the late Third Age, a method of Healing those that have been stilled or severed has been developed. From initial observations, it appears that Healing the opposite gender is more effective than Healing one of the same gender. It may also be that different Affinities are used on the different genders and that has an affect on how well the person is Healed.
Heal Stilling: Major Transform 8d6 (Stilled Channeler into Unstilled Channeler) (120 Active Points); Extra Time (Extra Phase, -3/4), Requires A Channeling Skill Roll (-1/2), Not as effective when Healing the same gender. The Healed channler has only half the Source END Reserve as they had previously. Members of the opposite gender are Healed to full strength. (-1/2), Noisy (-1/4), Concentration (1/2 DCV; -1/4)
Active Cost: 120 Real Cost: 37 End Cost: 12 Skill Roll: -12
Cost per Increment: Not Applicable - Set Effect. Considered an Absolute Effect per Fantasy HERO page 251.
Linking (All)
Linking is covered under the Channeling rules now.

Mask of Mirrors (Air and Fire)
The Mask of Mirrors allows a channeler to assume the outward appearance of somebody else. This can be a simply change in appearance or an attempt to duplicate somebody elses appearance. A Disguise Skill roll is required to imitate somebody else's appearance.
Mask of Mirrors: Shape Shift (any humanoid shape) (Sight and Hearing Groups, limited group of shapes), Imitation (Requires Disguise Skill), Costs END Only To Change Shape (+1/4) (41 Active Points); Requires A Channeling Skill Roll (-1/2), Noisy (-1/4)
Active Cost: 41 Real Cost: 23 END Cost: 4 Skill Roll: -4
Cost per Increment: Not Applicable - Set Effect.
Mirror of Mists (Air and Fire)
The Mirror of Mists is used to create an illusion that the channeler becomes very large. The affect can be very unsettling for those unused to encountering it.
Mirror of Mists: (Total: 50 Active Cost, 24 Real Cost) +20 PRE (20 Active Points); Only to cause fear (-1), Linked (Images; -1/2), Noisy (-1/4) (Real Cost: 7) plus Sight and Hearing Groups Images Increased Size (2" radius; +1/4), +/-3 to PER Rolls (30 Active Points); Requires A Channeling Skill Roll (-1/2), Noisy (-1/4) (Real Cost: 17)
Active Cost: 50 Real Cost: 24 END Cost: 5 Skill Roll: -5
Cost per Increment: Not Applicable - Set Effect.
Shielding (Spirit)
Shielding creates a barrier between another channeler and the Source, preventing the target from channeling.
Shielding: Entangle 2d6, 4 DEF (Stops A Given Sense Channeling Sense), Works Against EGO, Not STR (+1/4), Takes No Damage From Attacks All Attacks (+1/2), Based On EGO Combat Value (Mental Defense applies; +1), Invisible to Sight Group, Hide effects of Power (+1) (131 Active Points); Does Not Prevent The Use Of Accessible Foci (-1), Set Effect Entangles END Reserve (-1), Requires A Channeling Skill Roll (-1/2), Stops Working If Mentalist Is Stunned (-1/2), Cannot Form Barriers (-1/4), Costs END To Maintain (Half END Cost; -1/4), Nonresistant DEF (-1/4), Subject To Range Modifier (-1/4)
Active Cost: 56 Real Cost: 11 END Cost: 6 Skill Roll: -6
Cost per Increment: 56 Active Points to add 1d6 Body and 1 Def. 28 Active Points to add either 1d6 Body or 1 DEF. END Cost is increased by +6 per increment.
Skimming (Fire and Spirit)*
Skimming is one of the Lost Talents from the Age of Legends. With it, a channeler opens a hole into some other dimension and creates a platform that carries him and other passengers through the dimension. At the end of the journey, the channeler opens another hole to leave the alternate dimension. The channeler must know the location he is Skimming to (fixed or floating fixed location).
Skimming: Teleportation 8", x64 Increased Mass, Area Of Effect (17" Radius; +1), MegaScale (1" = 1,000 km; +1), Usable Simultaneously (up to 64 people at once; +1 3/4) (218 Active Points); Extra Time (20 Minutes, Character May Take No Other Actions, -2 3/4), Concentration, Must Concentrate throughout use of Constant Power (1/2 DCV; -1/2), Can Only Teleport To Floating Fixed Locations (-1/2), Requires A Channeling Skill Roll (Active Point penalty to Skill Roll is -1 per 10 Active Points; -1/2), Noisy (-1/4), Physical Manifestation (-1/4)
Active Cost: 218 Real Cost: 40 END Cost: 22 Skill Roll: -22
Cost per Increment: Not Applicable - Set Effect
Traveling (Fire and Spirit)*
Traveling is a Talent allowing the channeler to open a gate to a distant place and step through. The theory behind Traveling works differently for men and women. Men bore a hole through the Pattern and step through. Women attempt to make the destination synchronize with the origin and then open a gate that way.
Traveling: Teleportation 6", x1,048,576 Noncombat, x16 Increased Mass, Usable Simultaneously (up to 4 people at once; +3/4), Continuous (+1) (381 Active Points); Requires 6 hours for channeler to study and familiarize himself with the area if Traveling long distances. (-3), Gate (-1/2), Concentration, Must Concentrate throughout use of Constant Power (1/2 DCV; -1/2), Noisy (-1/4), Requires A Channeling Skill Roll (Active Point penalty to Skill Roll is -1 per 10 Active Points; -1/2)
Active Cost: 381 Real Cost: 66 END Cost: 35 Skill Roll: -35
Cost per Increment: Not Applicable - Set Effect.

Meta-Channeling Talents
Knotting Weaves
This powerful Talent allows a channeler to "tie off" a constant Weave so that he no longer has to maintain the END cost on it.
Knotting Weaves: Naked Modifier: Uncontrolled (+1/2), Continuous (+1) for up to 10 Active Points, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (22 Active Points); Extra Time (Extra Phase, Only to Activate, -1/2), Requires A Channeling Skill Roll (-1/2), Concentration (1/2 DCV; -1/4), Noisy (-1/4), The amount of time that the Weave lasts depends on how well the Channeler makes his skill roll. For every two points that the channeler makes his skill roll by, the duration is moved one step down the Time Chart. (-1/4)
Active Cost: 22 Real Cost: 8 End Cost: 0 Skill Roll: -2
Cost per Increment: 22 Active Points to add 10 Active Points to the amount that can be knotted.
Weave Inversion
This Talent is a method of weaving that makes the Weave invisible to the ability to sense channeling. The initial size of the Weave is up to 10 Active Points.
Weave Inversion: Naked Modifier: Invisible to Single Sense- Channeling Sense (+1/4) for up to 10 Active Points, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (112 Active Points); Concentration (1/2 DCV; -1/4), Requires A Channeling Skill Roll (Active Point penalty to Skill Roll is -1 per 10 Active Points; -1/2)
Active Cost: 3 Real Cost: 2 END Cost: 0 Skill Roll: 0
Cost per Increment
Non-Channeling Talents
Dreamwalking
Refer to this message (http://www.herogames.com/forums/showpost.php?p=741582&postcount=100) for a complete description of Dreamwalking.

Foretelling
A rather rare Talent, Foretelling is linked to Dreaming. The prophecies that are voiced while using the Foretelling Talent are always true, but difficult to interpret until after the fact.
Foretelling: Precognitive Clairsentience (Mystic Group), +5 to PER Roll, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (67 Active Points); No Conscious Control (-2), Precognition Only (-1), Concentration (0 DCV; Character is totally unaware of nearby events; -3/4), Vague and Unclear (-1/2)
Active Cost: 67 Real Cost: 8 END Cost: 0
Reading Residues
All channelers can look at residues left very recently. Some, however, can sense the residue of channeling that is hours and sometimes even days past.
Reading Residues: Retrocognitive Clairsentience (Mystic Group), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (60 Active Points); Only to allow for an Analyze Channeling skill roll. (-1), Time Modifiers (-1/2), Concentration (1/2 DCV; -1/4)
Active Cost: 40 Real Cost: 14 End Cost: 0 Skill Roll: n/a
Seeing Ta'avern
Some channelers and see ta'avern. They see a bright aura surrounding a ta'avern.
Seeing Ta'avern: Detect A Single Thing 16- (Unusual Group), Range, Sense
Active Cost: 15 Real Cost: 15 END Cost: 0 Skill Roll: n/a
* UPDATE: In reading knife of Dreams, I finally found a "canon" reference. (Just a note on Traveling: It was cheaper to create one power construct that handled the ability to traverse a roughly earth sized planet, than it was to create a short range and megascaled teleport as separate powers. I couldn't get the Active or Real Cost to match up the way I wanted either.)

[Nolgroth]

Just posting a minor update for the day. I made some fairly extensive modifications to the Channeling (http://www.herogames.com/forums/showpost.php?p=767180&postcount=161) rules and updated the Aes Sedai (http://www.herogames.com/forums/showpost.php?p=743613&postcount=116)template to reflect those changes.

Hurm, I think the Channeling rules themselves are just about as done as I can get them without some sort of playtest.

Now my goal is to move on to detailing the Shadowspawn: Trolloc, Myrddraal, Gholam, and Dragkhar. I want to put something in about Ogier as well, but I must admit a little vexation on what to do with their Treesinging abilities.

[Nolgroth]

Aginor created the Trollocs (trahl-awks) during the War of Power as soldiers for the Shadow. He believed that by mixing human and animal characteristics, he could create the perfect soldier. Unfortunately, the Trollocs proved to be too stupid, lazy and cowardly to be good soldiers. The subsequent and unexpected creation of the Myrddraal changed that. The Myrddraal, genetic throwbacks that are almost human in shape, but with far differnt powers, turned out to be excellent commanders for the unmotivated, if savage Trollocs. Since then, Trollocs have become the mainstay of the Dark One's armies.

Trollocs are huge, maybe eight feet tall. They have the body of a man and the head and feet of an animal such as a bear, bird, wolf or goat. Trollocs see well in the dark, but bright light blinds them. Some can track by scent or sound, but they are lazy and easily give up.

Trollocs are savage and bloodthirsty. They kill for the pleasure of killing and cannot be trusted.

Notes:
Trollocs are mindless cannon fodder. I didn't worry too much about expanding their skills base. Feel free to add whatever you feel is necessary to fit them to your own style of play.
Not all Trollocs are linked with a Myrddraal. That ability and the subsequent Vulnerability are optional additions.
Not all Trollocs have Tracking Scent. Another optional ability.
Trolloc -

VAL CHA Cost Total Roll Notes
25 STR 20 25 14- HTH Damage 5d6 END [2]
12 DEX 6 12 11- OCV 4 DCV 4
18 CON 16 18 13-
20 BODY 20 20 13-
5 INT -5 5 10- PER Roll 10-/12-
10 EGO 0 10 11- ECV: 3
20 PRE 10 20 13- PRE Attack: 4d6
-5 COM -2 -5 8-
10 PD 7 10/14 10/14 PD (0/4 rPD)
10 ED 8 10 10 ED (0 rED)
3 SPD 8 3 Phases: 4, 8, 12
12 REC 10 12
50 END 7 50
50 STUN 8 50
11 RUN 12 11" END [2]
0 SWIM -2 0" END [0]
3 LEAP -2 3" 3" forward, 1 1/2" upward

CHA Cost: 121

Cost POWERS
4 +2 PER with Hearing Group - END=0
4 Heavy: Knockback Resistance -2" - END=0
9 Reach: Stretching 1", Inherent (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2) (11 Active Points); no Noncombat Stretching (-1/4) - END=0
3 Myrddraal Link: Mind Link , One Specific Mind, Any distance (10 Active Points); Feedback STUN and BODY (-2), Does Not Provide Mental Awareness (-1/4) - END=0
5 Nightvision - END=0
6 Tough Hide: Armor (4 PD/0 ED) - END=0
10 Tracking Scent (optional) Tracking with Smell Group - END=0
9 various weapons: Killing Attack - Hand-To-Hand 3d6 (45 Active Points); Independent (-2), OAF (-1), STR Minimum 15-17 (-3/4), Real Weapon (-1/4) - END=4

POWERS Cost: 50


Cost SKILLS
10 +2 with HTH Combat
3 WF: Common Melee Weapons, Javelins and Thrown Spears, Thrown Rocks

SKILLS Cost: 13


Cost TALENTS
16 Berserk Fury

TALENTS Cost: 16

Value DISADVANTAGES
0 Normal Characteristic Maxima
25 Distinctive Features: (Not Concealable; Extreme Reaction; Detectable By Commonly-Used Senses)
25 Hunted: Nations of Men 14- (As Pow, PC has a Public ID or is otherwise very easy to find, Harshly Punish)
5 Physical Limitation: -2 to Sight PER in bright light (Infrequently, Slightly Impairing)
0 Social Limitation: Subject to orders of Myrddraal and Forsaken (Very Frequently, Severe, Custom Adder - Point Balance)
10 Vulnerability: 2 x BODY Feedback from Bound Myrddraal's Death (Uncommon)
10 Vulnerability: 2 x Effect Light Flashes (Uncommon)

DISADVANTAGES Points: 75

Base Pts: 125
Exp Required: 0
Total Exp Available: 0
Exp Unspent: 0
Total Character Cost: 200


References:

Trollocs - Wheel of Time series of novels, Encyclopedia Wheel of Time, and Wheel of Time FAQ.
Berserk Fury - Fantasy HERO Page 104

[Nolgroth]

Aginor created six gholam during the War of Power. Three were male and three were female. They were created with the express purpose of hunting down and slaying channelers working against the Shadow during the war.

The Gholam are virtually indestructible. The only thing that has been seen to affect them is the Silver Foxhead Medallion that Mat got from the Elfinn. Other than that nothing that has been tried, including the One Power, had a visible effect. The Gholam, though they look human, have a different internal structure that allows them to squeeze under doors and through narrow cracks. They are terribly strong, being able to literally rip a humans' limbs from his torso.

Gholam can sense when somebody is channeling, just as somebody with the ability to channel. The difference, is that the Gholam can sense if either gender is channeling.

This is a very dangerous enemy to send at the player characters. Gholam were designed to hunt down and kill without fear of getting destroyed in the process. Almost anything that the characters throw at a Gholam will be futile. Game Masters should consider what alternate methods the characters may use to destroy one, before incorporating a Gholam as a direct adversary.


Gholam -

VAL CHA Cost Total Roll Notes
20 STR 10 20 13- HTH Damage 4d6 END [2]
20 DEX 30 20 13- OCV 7 DCV 7
10 CON 0 10 11-
10 BODY 0 10 11-
10 INT 0 10 11- PER Roll 11-
10 EGO 20 10 11- ECV: 3
10 PRE 0 10 11- PRE Attack: 2d6
10 COM 0 10 11-
4 PD 0 4 4 PD (0 rPD)
2 ED 0 2 2 ED (0 rED)
4 SPD 10 4 Phases: 3, 6, 9, 12
6 REC 0 6
20 END 0 20
25 STUN 0 25
6 RUN 0 6" END [1]
2 SWIM 0 2" END [1]
4 LEAP 0 4" 4" forward, 2" upward

CHA Cost: 70

Cost POWERS
15 Does Not Bleed - END=0
10 No Hit Locations - END=0
60 Invulnerability: Desolidification (affected by Foxhead Medallion and see notes.), Inherent (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2) (90 Active Points); Cannot Pass Through Solid Objects (-1/2) [Notes: The Gholam that Mat fought reacted to the Foxhead medallion. It's skin burned and blistered. A couple of possibilities are some sort of chemical reaction between the silver in the medallion or a sort of "feedback" caused by two Source cancelling powers. Further speculation includes the use of fire or acid to damage the Gholam. It is highly doubtful that any purely physical force would damage the Gholam significantly. All Channeling powers that have been used against the Gholam have dissolved before touching the creature. It is unknown if Balefire, a Weave that partially exists outside of the Pattern would affect a Gholam.] - END=0
40 Affects Physical World (+2) for up to 20 Active Points of Strength (40 Active Points) - END=4
40 Mental Defense (42 points total) - END=0
40 Power Defense (40 points) - END=0
40 Damage Resistance (40 Mental Def./40 Power Def.) - END=0

POWERS Cost: 245


Cost SKILLS
3 Acrobatics 13-
3 Breakfall 13-
3 Climbing 13-
3 Concealment 11-
3 Contortionist 13-
10 Defense Maneuver I-IV
3 Shadowing 11-
3 Stealth 13-
0 WF: Unarmed Combat
15 +3 with HTH Combat

SKILLS Cost: 46


Cost TALENTS
14 Deadly Blow: +2d6 ([limited circumstances] only with unarmed combat)
17 Detect Channeling, Discriminatory, Sense, Tracking
5 Lightning Reflexes: +3 DEX to act first with All Actions
5 Rapid Healing

TALENTS Cost: 41
Value DISADVANTAGES
15 Physical Limitation: Subject to orders of the Forsaken (Infrequently, Fully Impairing)

DISADVANTAGES Points: 15

Base Pts: 125
Exp Required: 262
Total Exp Available: 262
Exp Unspent: 0
Total Character Cost: 402

[Nolgroth]

Another of the Shadowspawn created by Aginor. They act in a supporting role to that of the Myrddraal and Trollocs.

Very little is known of Dragkhar, other than its ability to drain the life from a victim with a kiss and its crooning song that suppresses the will of its victim and allows the Dragkhar to get close enough to administer its deadly kiss.

A Shadowspawn and thus an agent of the Dark One. Dragkhar are used as scouts and assassins.

A Dragkhar appears as a large man with bat wings and enlarged eyes. The lips are also overly large.


Dragkhar

VAL CHA Cost Total Roll Notes
10 STR 0 10 11- HTH Damage 2d6 END [1]
12 DEX 6 12 11- OCV 4 DCV 4
10 CON 0 10 11-
10 BODY 0 10 11-
10 INT 0 10 11- PER Roll 11-
10 EGO 0 10 11- ECV: 3
20 PRE 10 20 13- PRE Attack: 4d6
0 COM -5 0 9-
2 PD 0 2 2 PD (0 rPD)
2 ED 0 2 2 ED (0 rED)
3 SPD 8 3 Phases: 4, 8, 12
5 REC 2 5
21 END 1 21
20 STUN 0 20
6 RUN 0 6" END [1]
2 SWIM 0 2" END [1]
2 LEAP 0 2" 2" forward, 1" upward

CHA Cost: 22

Cost POWERS
29 Bat wings: Flight 12", x8 Noncombat, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (51 Active Points); Restrainable (-1/2), Physical Manifestation (-1/4) - END=0
56 Crooning Song: Mind Control 15d6, Explosion (+1/2) (112 Active Points); Set Effect (Don't resist and come here; -1/2), Incantations (Requires Incantations throughout; -1/2) - END=11
280 Death Kiss: Killing Attack - Hand-To-Hand (Absolute Effect) 8d6, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), No Normal Defense ([Standard]; +1), Does BODY (+1) (420 Active Points); No STR Bonus (-1/2) - END=0

POWERS Cost: 365


Cost SKILLS
6 +3 with Death Kiss
3 Mimicry 11-
3 Stealth 11-
3 Ventriloquism 11-

SKILLS Cost: 15


Value DISADVANTAGES
0 Normal Characteristic Maxima
25 Distinctive Features: (Not Concealable; Extreme Reaction; Detectable By Commonly-Used Senses)
15 Hunted: Aiel, Borderlanders and others who know of Shadowspawn 11- (As Pow, Harshly Punish)
15 Physical Limitation: Cannot disobey one of the Forsaken (Infrequently, Fully Impairing)

DISADVANTAGES Points: 55

Base Pts: 125
Exp Required: 222
Total Exp Available: 222
Exp Unspent: 0
Total Character Cost: 402

[Nolgroth]

Copied over from the Conversions thread in General Gaming discussion.


If I got this right, this is how you could do it:

Treesing: Minor Tranform (small plant into large plant), Improved Result Group (any wood product), Incantations (singing)

The stone shaping power is created in more or less the same way.
That's the very basic idea. The ability would be more like;

Treesinging: Minor Transformation (large tree into any wood product), Improved Result Group, Extra-Time, Incantations. There would probably be a Limitation about the size of the item that is being sung out of a tree.

In the Great Hunt (Book 2) Loial the Ogier sings a Staff built for his size out of a middlin sized tree. After he is done, he explains that a tree can only give up so much wood without damaging itself.

Now the Treesinging ability seems to be able to make any plant stronger and healthier, but I am not sure how that would be represented. Hmmmn, I wonder if the treesinging ability could be used to alter plants or if it only works at enhancing their natural attributes. Still in would be pretty interesting if an Ogier could sing to some brambles and cause some nasty thorns to grow or more precisely, existing thorns to grow to exaggerated lengths.

Trivia: In the Age of Legends, Ogier used to be able to combine their song with that of the Nym (an Ent-like race) and the Aiel to do some pretty wondrous things with crops and other plants. It is the Song that the Aiel sand that the "modern" Tinkers keep searching for.

The stoneworking ability is less magical than it is just sheer skill and patience. At least I never took the descriptions as being outright magical. Even the Ogier consider stoneworking a pale shadow in comparison to getting things to grow.

Hmmmmn. This has definitely given me food for thought.

[Nolgroth]

Here are the HERO Designer files that I have so far. Enjoy.

[Nolgroth]

With the recent release of Knife of Dreams, I have gotten a little wind back in my Wheel of Time sails. The book finally reveals which of the Five Powers are used in Traveling (and presumably Skimming), so I updated the appropriate sections above.

Also, skimming (no pun intended) over my channeling rules, I found some areas that could use some clarification and outright fixin'. The most important of those have already been done, but I'm going to go back over the whole document and try to make it read easier. Also, since most of the write-ups and stuff are spread out over the thread, I'm thinking of creating an "index" page with links to the individual posts.

There were many new weaves displayed in Knife of Dreams, but I am torn as to whether I should write those up immediately or wait a while so I don't post anything potentially spoiling.

Oh, and if you are a Wheel of Time fan, get the darn book. Finally some real movement in regards to the plot.

-nolgroth

[Eosin]

Thanks for the HD files.

[Nolgroth]

Thanks for the HD files.

My pleasure.

[Andrew Byers]

There were many new weaves displayed in Knife of Dreams, but I am torn as to whether I should write those up immediately or wait a while so I don't post anything potentially spoiling.

Oh, and if you are a Wheel of Time fan, get the darn book. Finally some real movement in regards to the plot.

-nolgroth


Hey, please feel free to write up the new weaves. I'd say just post them with a spoiler warning and you'd be fine.

I haven't picked up the new book yet, but I plan on getting it this Thursday at a Robert Jordan book signing.

In a related question, would there be any interest in compiling all the Wheel of Time Hero conversion material into a PDF or Word document to get it all in one place and enable better sharing of the information? I think having it all in one place would help us see where the gaps are as well. I'd be more than happy to help compile the material (going back through this thread and others) if there is any interest.

[Nolgroth]

Hey, please feel free to write up the new weaves. I'd say just post them with a spoiler warning and you'd be fine.

I haven't picked up the new book yet, but I plan on getting it this Thursday at a Robert Jordan book signing.

In a related question, would there be any interest in compiling all the Wheel of Time Hero conversion material into a PDF or Word document to get it all in one place and enable better sharing of the information? I think having it all in one place would help us see where the gaps are as well. I'd be more than happy to help compile the material (going back through this thread and others) if there is any interest.
The end result of everything that I do for the WoT Conversion will be in a PDF document or something of the sort. I'm far from completely done, but it is starting to shape up nicely. As to your question about help compiling the stuff, heck yeah. I only have one caveat and that is Eosin and I have both created independent channeling rules that are quite different in function. Some of the stuff that I have used (such as Shielding) comes right out of Eosin's system, but overall they are different. To make matters even more complicated, I had another system based roughly on The Gift from Fantasy HERO.

Keep in mind that Eosin and Nu Soard Graphite in particular have done some amazing work on converting WoT. I just hope Nu Soard Graphite gets around to updating his sword forms. One of the coolest things ever. (Speaking of Eosin's work, can I add a modified version of your Arms of Air variant to the Weaves list? Can we post your Myyrdraal write-up here?)

So yeah, as long as you give credit where due, I have no problem with you doing the PDF thing. Probably going to have to create versions for it if you start now, cuz I ain't done yet. Still have to figure out exactly how I am going to stat out those pesky Ogier.....

[Eosin]

(Speaking of Eosin's work, can I add a modified version of your Arms of Air variant to the Weaves list? Can we post your Myyrdraal write-up here?)

Thanks for asking. You can hack, slice, incorporate, repost, or use anything that I have written --- if that wasn't the intention it would not have been posted. You can consider this blanket permission from me.

:p

[Nolgroth]

Thanks for asking. You can hack, slice, incorporate, repost, or use anything that I have written --- if that wasn't the intention it would not have been posted. You can consider this blanket permission from me.

:p
Why thank you very much, kind sir.

[Andrew Byers]

The end result of everything that I do for the WoT Conversion will be in a PDF document or something of the sort. I'm far from completely done, but it is starting to shape up nicely. As to your question about help compiling the stuff, heck yeah. I only have one caveat and that is Eosin and I have both created independent channeling rules that are quite different in function. Some of the stuff that I have used (such as Shielding) comes right out of Eosin's system, but overall they are different. To make matters even more complicated, I had another system based roughly on The Gift from Fantasy HERO.

Keep in mind that Eosin and Nu Soard Graphite in particular have done some amazing work on converting WoT. I just hope Nu Soard Graphite gets around to updating his sword forms. One of the coolest things ever. (Speaking of Eosin's work, can I add a modified version of your Arms of Air variant to the Weaves list? Can we post your Myyrdraal write-up here?)

So yeah, as long as you give credit where due, I have no problem with you doing the PDF thing. Probably going to have to create versions for it if you start now, cuz I ain't done yet. Still have to figure out exactly how I am going to stat out those pesky Ogier.....

Sounds great. I think I might wait a bit (a week or two) before getting started to compile what we have so far. I'll work with you and everyone else to ensure that everyone is credited properly. You're right, the various channeling systems are probably going to be the toughest to compile, since I've seen various partial systems posted. Not sure that any one channeling system covers all the possibilities in the books, but I'm sure that will come together over time.

[Andrew Byers]

Just wanted to give everyone a quick update on first draft the WoT to Hero System conversion PDF project. I have grabbed all the substantive material from this thread, along with two others I found (see below) and pasted it into a Word document. It's extremely ugly at this point and needs to be cleaned up a great deal. I have been extremely careful to make sure that all the authors of the individual pieces have been maintained (right now I have it all color-coded in the document). Some of the material is going to be very easy to extract, while much of the rest (especially Channeling rules) is going to take a while. I will also make sure that the variant Channeling systems (e.g., Nolgroth's and Eosin's) are all presented separately as optional systems.

Here are the links to the threads I've drawn from so far. If anyone has other threads I should grab material from, please let me know.

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2338

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12881

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24376


P.S. I picked up Knife of Dreams last night at a book signing with Robert Jordan. No word on when the final book is coming out (he confirmed that there will be only one more in the main WoT series). He has ideas for two additional short prequel novels; those are confirmed. He has an idea that would fill up 2-3 additional WoT books outside the main series, which he calls "outrigger novels" because they don't deal directly with the main story arc. He is going to sit on those books for a year or two while he decides if the basic concept is strong enough to support 2-3 books being written. If not, he won't write them. After the next WoT book he will write a new fantasy trilogy (different universe altogether) that he has a contract for. So basically we get one more WoT book then we'll have to wait a while for any more development of the setting/characters.

[Eosin]

I have all my stuff in word... care for the DOC?


Eosin

PS - once you get it all together if I can find a spare moment, I might try to gussy it up in InDesign. I have a few spare graphics laying about.

[Andrew Byers]

I have all my stuff in word... care for the DOC?


Eosin

PS - once you get it all together if I can find a spare moment, I might try to gussy it up in InDesign. I have a few spare graphics laying about.


That would be great, thanks!

My email address is andrew.byers(at)gmail dot com (hopefully the spambots won't recognize that as an email address.....) :)

[Nolgroth]

It's really heartening to see this thread coming alive again. I was hoping for this kind of thing to happen when Knife of Dreams came out. Good to see that there is still some interest.

The news about a single main sequence WoT book is also good news, sort of. It will be good to see the story wrapped up, but it also means that I won't get to play in Randland for very much longer. It will be interesting to see Mr. Jordan tackle a new setting.

So, back to the topic of conversion,
I have been thinking about Cultural Packages for the different human factions. Some of these seem almost like "racial" abilities (like the Aiel ability to withstand tremendous amounts of pain), while others are clearly cultural. Has anybody else had any thoughts on this?


[SPOILER ALERT]




Did it seem that the Ogier are going to disappear at the end of the Third Age? The text in the early part of KoD about the Book of Translation and even a few words shared between Elder Haman and Loial implied that the Ogier will withdraw from the world for a while, until they are spun out by the Pattern again. (I'll look at the section again later to get the exact wording.) If so, that could make part of the conversion easier. Creating stats to the Ogier that stayed true to the books, yet made them unique to play has been the hurdle lately. Since I tentatively wanted to use the Fourth Age as a setting, that may make things much easier.

On a separate note, the bonding of Ashamen and Aes Sedai has the smell of future tradition to it. I've had some thoughts on how that might relate in a later Age. Interesting how so much of what I am thinking about can be changed with just a few passages in the next (last) book. :)

Anyway, haven't forgotten the conversion or anything, but inertia has me fully in its grip at the moment. I really need a gaming group to playtest things.....

[Lord Liaden]

A while back Eosin posted a writeup for a Myrrdraal to the boards; it was in HTML format, but after the HTML feature on these boards was disabled the template became just scrambled code. With Eosin's permission I reconstructed it, and have attached it as a DOC file to its original thread. I don't know if it's among the Documents that Eosin has, but in case it isn't, here's where you can find it:
http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?p=766492

[Andrew Byers]

The news about a single main sequence WoT book is also good news, sort of. It will be good to see the story wrapped up, but it also means that I won't get to play in Randland for very much longer. It will be interesting to see Mr. Jordan tackle a new setting.

Forgot one other thing he said at the book signing. His first project after the next/final main sequence WoT book is the Wheel of Time Encyclopedia. He has someone helping him put this together and as soon as he finishes the series he'll be directing all his attention to the encyclopedia. I suspect this is going to be a very good resource for gamers.

[Andrew Byers]

A while back Eosin posted a writeup for a Myrrdraal to the boards; it was in HTML format, but after the HTML feature on these boards was disabled the template became just scrambled code. With Eosin's permission I reconstructed it, and have attached it as a DOC file to its original thread. I don't know if it's among the Documents that Eosin has, but in case it isn't, here's where you can find it:
http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?p=766492

Thank you very much for cleaning that up and putting it into Word! I've grabbed it from the other thread and put it with the other shadowspan write-ups that Nolgroth wrote (trolloc, dragkhar, and gholam).

[Nolgroth]

Forgot one other thing he said at the book signing. His first project after the next/final main sequence WoT book is the Wheel of Time Encyclopedia. He has someone helping him put this together and as soon as he finishes the series he'll be directing all his attention to the encyclopedia. I suspect this is going to be a very good resource for gamers.

Damn! Too bad I already repped you. Fantastic news. I can't wait to get a hold of that. Hopefully it will have some sort of resource about Channeling Weaves and which of the Five Powers are used in each. That would be an excellent resource.

[Andrew Byers]

Hopefully it will have some sort of resource about Channeling Weaves and which of the Five Powers are used in each. That would be an excellent resource.

I think it will. He mentioned channeling briefly when he was talking about the encyclopedia, which makes me suspect he's probably going to list/describe all known weaves. I can only assume he'll include which powers are used in each. I remember someone asking specifically about more detailed maps as well, and Jordan said that he thought the encyclopedia would have a series of new, detailed maps as part of the package.