The Wheel of Time

[NuSoardGraphite]

With the new book out, and Hero 5th out, and all the new (and old skool) Hero converts lurking around these days, I figure its time to resurrect this old topic...

Too bad we don't have access to the old message board. There was a TON of great stuff in there for WoT based games. I still have to finish the Blademaster Arts! (I was about 3/4 done with it) and now its lost....ALL LOST!:(

[Nolgroth]

I didn't save the discussion as late as your Blademaster stuff, but I do have the HTML file of most of the discussion prior to that. E-mail me an address I can send it to, if you should want it.

[Edit] Oops, didn't add an e-mail for you to send to. nolgroth@netscape.net

[NuSoardGraphite]

Ooh, Ooh!

You saved some?

My Hero!

I'll be e-mailing you about it this weekend.

I'm not really worried about the Blademaster stuff. I can always do that again (I really should put it into my own computer) and I want to adjust it to the 5th edition anyway, so starting from scratch is okay.

[ShadowRaptor]

Wheel of Time is cool. I have the d20 book for it but I think it would be sweeter to play it using HERO than d20. If any of you remember, what kinds of things did you come up with for WoT?

[NuSoardGraphite]

Oh man. We had a sweet thread going!

We had rules for The One Power, Ogier, Angreal, Ter'angreal and Sa'angreal, Channelling and Burnout, cutting one off from the Source, Linking and Circles, the Blademaster Arts...basically The Whole Enchilada.

Practically the only thing we lacked were stats for specific characters and creatures.

Man, that was one kick ass thread. And now its GONE.

:(

Thats why I'm starting this thread here. I'm hoping the people who contributed to the thread on the last board will help in upgrading to the 5th edition...

[Nolgroth]

Originally posted to the Cybergames Wheel of Time discussion thread by Ghostnight. Please note that Ghostnight quoted Corvus to start the thread.

I think the "rolling end" thing works fairly well. It was the best way we could think of to simulate the weaves without things getting weird, while still trying to maintain balance.

For the wolf dream thing, my roommate and I came up with an Area of Effect mind link with wolves, which had the red. by range lim. To simulate an ability to contact any wolf(who was willing) in a specific area(the AA was to offset the "must have LoS" rule for Mindlink. The red. by range was added to simulate a distance related "signal degradation" which we sorta saw in the books.

We did Aiel with Martial arts. Warders had a small amount of regen. and a mindlink with their AesSedie. They also got a cloak with images 1 hex to simulate the color shifting cloak.(grants bonuses to stealth and concealment) Warders could buy combat levels or martial arts which ever they wanted. Exa. being a heron mark swordmaster was martial arts, being an archer or axe-weilder would be done with C. Levels.

Out of curiousity how do you do Ogier's singing abilities? We've set them up as powers you can buy (as per normal Fantasy Hero spells). We use extra time and incantations but not RSR. Seems to work well and gamewise the two "magic systems" are different enough to be distinct.

My roommates campaign is set just before the most recent book, so the one power is...(if you read the book you know, if you havent i dont want to spoil it).

Noone in the campaign is Aiel or a Warder. We've got 3 Aes'Sedia(sp?)(Green and Blue from the tower in exhile and Yellow from the Tower not in exhile), an Ogier and an Ashaman(me, and boy have I had fun going insane so far, none of the characters trusts my grasp on the world! But they need me for my traveling abilities, it's great!)

GN

And the original Corvus quote....

well... what we did was to have the Power using types buy each individual thread, for an increasing cost. We tend to seperate the magic using types from others by having them spend points on magesight, or somesuch. So, staying with that premise, we decided to charge it rather like perks: 2 pts for Spirit, then 3pts for the next, and on up until they spent 6 pts for the fourth. It got spendy, but we thought it did show how hard it was to have real ability in all for threads, as we thought the book was showing. Later books kind of blew that out, 'cause it seems everyone can toss off weaves like going to the bathroom, but we were playing early in the series. We also decided that the Perrin type guys, who were going into the Wolf Dream had to spend the 2 pts on Spirit, to denote that ability...

Now, I think your way might be better, having weaves that cost multiples of END if the caster had little ability in the element in question...

I'll try to post a message or two a day from the old thread so you can see what we did with the whole discussion.

[Nolgroth]

Originally posted by Corvus in the Cybergames Wheel of Time thread.

The game hasn't survived to this point. We didn't even have to worry about Ogier abilities. Maybe we'll go back when Jordan finishes the series...
Just before or just after the most recent? The change in environment is pretty dramatic, there. Hey, how did your guy get away from the Black Tower in the first place?

[Nolgroth]

Originally posted by Nu Soard Graphite in the Cybergames Wheel of Time thread.

've considered running a fantasy game based on WoT series. In any case, I'll probably use the magic system from WoT in any Fantasy Hero game I run (VPP with various skills based on the "weaves")
I was thinking that the amount of one power a person can draw in is the same no matter what (Nynaeve, being considered one of the most powerful Aes Sedai in history, might have a VPP of 90 points!) but it is their SKILL with a particular type of weave that determines what they can do with the power. This method takes a LOT of GM interpretation. The base skill roll should be figured up as follows. Strong skill ([Int/5]+11) Weak skill ([Int/5]+6) Spirit ([Int/5]+9) Thus, an average Int Male would have Earth(13-) Fire(13-) Water(8-) Wind(8-) Spirit(11-) and a female would have Earth(8-) Fire(8-) Water(13-) Wind(13-) and Spirit(11-). Each skill would cost 2pts per +1 to the roll and 5pts skill levels to "Power Weaves" must be distributed among the various skills as needed during a phase.
The actual weaves require skill rolls as outlined in the HSR/BBB under Variable Power Pools. The fact that the skill for the power pool is split between 5 different skills is a (-1) limitation. This counters the +1 advantage of 0phase activation. (it doesn't usualy seem to take much time for most weaves in WoT...although extra time can be taken for a bonus)

When one is weaving the OnePower (making a skill roll) the GM determines which skill is the base skill needed. Example: Rand is faced with two Trollocks and a Fade! He lost his sword some time back, so he decides to form a blade of pure flame, using the One Power. The GM determines that the base skill is Fire with Air being the secondary skill.
Secondary skills are rolled, complimentary to the Base skill. Use whatever method you have developed for dealing with Complimentary skills, however, for play balance reasons, I suggest you use the following method: Successful Complimentary skill gives +1 to base skill roll. Critical Success on Complimentary roll gives +2 to base skill roll. (critical success is rolling half or less of what you needed to succeed). A failure gives a -1 to base skill roll and a critical failure gives -2 to base skill roll. With this method, it allows someone with a high secondary skill to give them a better chance with a poor base skill, but not give them TOO much of a bonus.
Continue example: Rand has a Power Pool of 90 points. He wants to configure 60points of it into a 2D6HKA Ap/+1stunx (60act). His skill with Fire is 18- his skill with air is 14-. He makes his air roll (14 minus 6 is 8 or less) and rolls a 7, succeeding, giving him a +1 to his skill with Fire (19-) He makes his second roll with fire (19 minus 6 for 13-) and gets a 10. He succeeds in creating the fireblade and proceeds to chop his opponents to cinders!
Concievably, one could have multiple secondary skills to 1 base skill. (Healing a disease may require Base:water with secondary Air and Secondary: Fire (to control the fever). This is completely up to the GM, which can give the GM a headache, if his characters learn to rely on the One Power (a dangerous propisition for an Ashaman) but an imaginative and fast-thinking Gm should have no problem with this particular system.

[Nolgroth]

Please note that I'm only going to post the original messages as they relate to using the Hero system. The incidental messages I'll leave out.

Originally posted by Nu Soard Graphite in the Cybergames Wheel of Time thread.

Angreal, Ter'angreal and Sa'angreal.

Ter'angreal are just various magic weapons and items in the campaign. Some require the One Power to activate, some don't. depends on the items purpose (ancient weapons that use the One Power don't normaly require the One Power to use, though some really ancient weapons may have been built for use by the Gifted example: Callandor)

Angreal add points to the users VPP. Not as an Aid...just give the Angreal a point rating and this adds directly to the VPP of of the mage using it. Example, Rands "Little Fat Man" Angreal has a rating of 20pts and thus adds 20pts to Rands already impressive 90pt VPP, thus giving rand access to a power pool of 110 pts! The Angreal do not, however, give the user additional skill with the Power. Better have some skill levels! (Rand had this problem with Callandor..a VERY powerful Sa'angreal. He did not have the skill to use the amount of power that Callandor gave him and he was almost consumed by it) In general, Angreal should be limited to 10-30pts.

Sa'angreal: These are very powerful Angreal. They can significantly increase the level of power that a mage can wield and can often allow a single user of the Power to overcome even a circle of 6 or more. Sa'angreal should give bonuses to VPP of greater than 30pts. (a very powerful Sa'angreal like Callandor would give a bonus of 50-60pts to their VPP!)

does anyone know if Angreal and Sa'angreal can stack bonuses. I don't remember if that has ever been done, but I know that one can use an Angreal and then join into a circle. Thats some serious Power being thrown around!

Also, how would you guys simulate a "Circle"? I have a method worked out, but I'm curious to see what you guys come up with.

[Nolgroth]

Originally posted by Nolgroth in the Cybergames Wheel of Time thread

NSG,

You have some pretty interesting ideas for WoT-style magic. I myself made up a mechanic where each of the five elements had a rating from 1 to 10. Each point of rating would limit you to 10 AP of power in an effect. I also pre-defined what kind of powers fell under which element.

I ran the Power Pool as a combination Multipower/Variable Pool. With powers that you paid the slot for, the Skill Roll was made with no penalty. For instances where a person experimented with the Power, a Skill Roll was made with the normal penalty for the number of active points used.

For Circles, each person had to take an Aid to Channeling pool. With the proper power modifiers, the person in charge of the Circle received an aid from each member of the Circle to the Pool slot. For actual powers within the Aided Pool, I was somewhat lenient. If somebody had a slot for Fireball (for instance), I allowed them to increase the power of the slot by the same ratio that the pool increased. The AID became a Continuous Power. Essentially the initial Aid roll was maintained by the members of the
Circle by paying END each Turn. I also had the END cost of the powers used split among the Circle members.

I also allowed the artificial ratings for the five elements to be raised by two for the first additional member of the Circle and one for every member after that.

Keep in mind that I am very lenient with points if the effect is gained. I also tend to flex the rules a little. The system I used worked out really well at simulating the WoT channeling system. Let me know what you think.

[Nolgroth]

Originally posted by Nu Soard Graphite in the Cybergames Wheel of Time thread.

Not bad at all, Nogroth. It does simulate the way Jordan seems to have lain out his structure of Magic in the WoT. With women being weak in Earth and Fire, are limited to low points (rating 1-3) in those but unlimited in the others. Vice, versa with Males. Good system!

The way I was planning on dealing with a circle, is the most powerful is usualy chosen as leader of the circle (i.e. the other members of the circle, feed her their portion of the One Power) or the one with the most Skill with the necesary weaves. The Leader uses her full VPP. The other members of a circle must roll their skill with spirit (with a penalty based on how much of the One Power they intend to lend to the circle) to join the circle. The others in the circle add the amount of their VPP they wish to add to the circle together then divide by 5. Thus, a circle of 13 average full Aes Sedai (average VPP of 30pts) can combine to a total VPP of 102pts! ([12x30]/5+30) which means a circle of 13 average Aes Sedai barely exceeds Rands level of power by himself (VPP:90) which goes in line with about the power level represented in the books. (a circle of 11 exactly matches Rands VPP of 90)
The End is shared between all members of the circle evenly. Thus, because the End is so inexpensive, the increased End limitation is often applied to weaves created in a circle to use less of the One Power so that some Power is left in case the circle needs emergency defenses or counter magick. Example: a circle of 11 Aes Sedai (total VPP:90) are attempting to fight Lanfear (VPP:75) and have decided to erase her from reality and create Balefire. They configure their VPP to 1D6RKA(15) AVLD/body(+2.5) Autofire-5(+1/2) Transdimensional(+1/2) AE-1hex(+1/2) Continuous(+1) For a total of 90 active points: [note: the transdimensional is through time. The AVLD is vs Force Field]
Limitations they put on the Balefire blast is X2end(-1/2) no kb(-1/4) for a real cost of 51pts. Which leaves the circle with 39 points to configure into a defense if necesary. Lanfear dodges the initial blast of Balefire and recognizing it for what it is, decides enough is enough and uses all of her ability with the one power to psychicaly assualt the leader of the circle (70active points of Ego Blast!) One of the circle recognizes the weaves that Lanfear is creating and lets their leader know she is preparing a mind assualt using spirit. The leader decides to configure the 39 points of VPP left into 40pts of Mental Defens, AE-Radius Selective (to cover all the circle) which is 90 active, but with the limitations of Cost End(-1/2) and X4End(-1.5) for 30 real points (which leaves 9 pts of the pool free). Lanfear attacks with her 7D6 Ego blast, causing 28 pts of stun damage, but the Spirit shield weaved by the circle deflects it easily. The circle has spent 90 end on the Balefire and 36 end for the Mental Defense for a total of 126 end divided by 11 equals 11.4 end each (round down to 11, what the hell). The leader takes any fractions so she takes 15 end. Lanfear decides it not worth the trouble its going to take to fight a circle that large, so she travells 25km to the north and escapes.

The leader may pass control of a circle to someone else. She must make a Spirit skill roll in order to do so (-1/10pts in the pool) but may take extra time to do so, in order to gain a bonus. The person recieving the pool must also make a Spirit skill roll to gain control of the pool, but at a +1 bonus provided the previous leader succeeds in her Spirit skill roll (or +2 if her roll was a critical success) if either fail their skill roll, control fails to shift. If either criticaly fails their skill roll, bad, bad things happen (the circle crumbles, and must once again be established, and each memeber of the circle takes a 1D6 End drain per 10pts in the VPP!)
After a circle ends, each member of the circle must make an Ego check with a penalty equal to how much of the power they put into the circle (-1/10 as usual) if they fail this, they take a 1D6 end drain per 10pts of their pool that they put into the circle. Entering a circle can be tiring, but is necesary sometimes!

Remember, members of the same sex cannot make a circle that exceeds 13 members. in order to have more than 13 members, there must be at least one person of the opposite sex present to stand in as a link to the other half of the Source. This goes for every multiple of 13 achieved. With mixed, male/female circles, some truely impressive feats of the One Power can be achieved...though because of the animosity between Ashaman and Aes Sedai, this will almost never happen (however, the Forsaken, Black Ajah and Dark Friends don't have this predjudice!).

Just to scare the Bejeezus outta you, a mixed circle of 39 average users of the One Power can generate a VPP of 258 pts!!! ([30X38]/5+30).

Hmm...thats a bit much...do you think its too high?

Lets try this: First 13 is ([VppX12]/5+VPP)
The Second 13 are ([VppX13]/10)
The Third 13 are ([VppX13]/20)
and so on.
using that method, the aforementioned circle of 39 average users of the Power would achieve a VPP of 160.5pts. Thats a bit better.

Which method do you think is more representative of the Power increase of a Circle?

[Nolgroth]

Originally posted by Nu Soard Graphite in the Cybergames Wheel of Time thread.

Stilling:

Stilling would be a Transform (Major) that strips one of their ability to use the one power (I.e. Removes the Variable Power Pool!)

Reversing Stilling: This would also be a transform. However, at current, any Female trying to reverse the stilling of another Female can only return Half the Power pool. (note someone with a VPP of 30 before, will only have a VPP of 15 after being HEALED by a female) and the same is true for a Male attempting to reverse a Male that has been stilled. When one of the opposite Sex reverses the stilling, the VPP returns at full strength.

[Nolgroth]

Originally posted by Nu Soard Graphite in the Cybergames Wheel of Time thread.

The Lure of the One Power:

The One Power, like the Darkside of the Force, can be seductive, luring you to take in more and more of the Power...more Power than you can safely handle. If a person absorbs more of the One Power than they can handle, they can Still themsevles, harm themselves or even kill themselves! It can be handled in several ways.

When one first opens themself to the One Power in a day, make an Ego roll. Remember, the more powerful the person is (the Higher the Power Pool) the more powerful is the Lure of the One Power. No matter how much of their Power Pool they are attempting to use, the penalty to the Ego is based on their full Pool. The Penalty is -1/20 Act points in the pool. The Talent, Resistance gives a bonus to Ego rolls for this.
If the character fails their Ego roll, they pull in more of the power than they can handle and hurt themselves. They take a 1D6 stun drain for every 10pts in their pool PLUS 1D6 for every point they fail the roll by. On a critical failure(17) that translates to physical Damage (roll as Normal damage, but NND) On a critical failure(18) that translates to Dice of Transform in an effort to still the character!!! in anycase, on a roll of 18, the character is instantly knocked out, and will not be able to Channel for 3D6 days.

If this seems harsh to you, remember that Novices are not allowed to Channel for the first Year or so of their training without a teacher present. This is so that the teacher can be handy to cut the Novice off from the One Power if she pulls in too much and cannot stop herself. It has been mentioned that many Novices train themselves in secret, but just about as many end up stilling themselves or causing some form of permanent damage. Thus, Novices are not allowed to Channel on their own until such a time as they have learned proper control under the guidance of a full Aes Sedai (i.e. have gained a few levels of Resistance to aid in their struggle with the One Power) It is to be assumed that one must have a minimum of 5 levels of resistance before one can be raised to the level of Accepted, and be allowed to channel/train on ones own. This struggle also applies when attempting to take control of a Circle, thus only the most skilled, Strongwilled of Aes Sedai are allowed to lead a circle.

A Channeler can attempt to pull in more of the One Power than they can normaly handle (i.e. "Push" their Power Pool) but this is a risky proposition at best. After opening themselves up to the One Power, they must make an Ego roll, at the normal penalty. If they succeed, they gain +10 to the Pool +2pts per pt the Ego roll was made by. If they fail, treat as if they rolled a 17 (dice in physical Damage, no defense) if a 17 or 18 is rolled, they are automaticaly stilled. No passing GO, no collecting $200. (and up to the GM, Knocked into a Coma as well)

If you want to use more of the One Power, get an Angreal!!!

oh, and for Gm's that want to keep players on their toes. Make them roll for the Control during times of stress...the middle of a battle and they see a comrade hurt or killed. During a particularly disturbing revelation. If they are sick and attempting to Channel. If they are attempting to Channel for no good reason. This can be used as a GM control collar for those who find the proposition of giving PC's a VPP daunting.

[Nolgroth]

Originally posted by Nolgroth in the Cybergames Wheel of Time thread.

he Lure of the One Power:

I have to agree with you again on most points. I might not do an automatic Stilling when drawing in too much of the power, but I would at least treat it as a double strength transform.

[Nolgroth]

Originally posted by Ghostnight in the Cybergames Wheel of Time thread.

Sorry for the delay in posting...

In my roommates campaign(which takes place before the last book), Rand had made an arrangement with some of the borderlands forts to provide assistance in "holding back the blight". As a result Taim has sent my character to Fal Dara. The campaign just started but there was a recent shadowspawn attack where an ancient mirror was stolen. The mirror turned out to be an Angreal which the castle's lord hadnt known about, now the group is running through the Ways(trying to avoind the blackwind) following the mydryall(sp?) who stole the mirror.

Nu Soard, we simulated angreal, sa'angreal, and circle as aids to all powers in the power pool. With angreal and sa'angreal we used 0end, cont. and a focus (if i remeber right, I'm at work right now) and for circles everyone in the circle places a similar aid in their pool and aids the leader of the circle. The aid has limitations like only X number of men vs women, must be in circle, etc...

I dont remember how stilling was down, but the transform seems right... For shielding we opted to break the rules a little and made a drain vs the control cost of the power pool. Not exactly kosher by the rules but it works quite well without making it too easy or too hard.

We had thought about using different skill rolls for each weave but since most of our players are new to the Hero system we opted for just a "rolling end" type of setup. This way we can generate a base weave, and then the players can scale it to the power level they want. Exa. a Fireball weave would be written up 1d6exp. is 8act pts/3 real pts and 1 end male, 2 end female. If you had a 30pt pool(average for the camp.) you could do upto 4d6exp. for approx 30act pts, and 15 real with it costing 3 end male/6 female.

But i'll tell you Balefire was a tough one without having todo a huge amount of killing damage. We did X-D Move UvO, AA line, Trans Dim.(to kill them in the past). Where did we send them? Out of the pattern! My roommate, who is new to the system looked at me REALLY funny when I suggested this...

GN

[Nolgroth]

Well, that's enough for today. I'll finish posting the messages tomorrow sometime. Not all is lost NuSoard.

[ShadowRaptor]

keep posting them, we need them (they gave me something good to read)...

[Nolgroth]

Originally posted by Malhanon in the Cybergames Wheel of Time thread.

NSG great system ideas. My freinds and myself have been tossing around ideas on how to make this work.

My only two comments, 1) I think the skill rolls shouold not be complimentary to each other when channeling multiple elements. You should have to make multiple skill rolls, fail one, fail the whole thing.
2) I am wondering if the power scale is correct, after reading what Rand can do, I don't think 90 pts is enough. He did create an entire mountain over his head in a past life.

Any ideas on how powerful the Two giant statue sa'angreals are (ie how much of + to vpp)?

[Nolgroth]

Originally posted by Nu Soard Graphite in the Cybergames Wheel of Time thread.

That was just a number I threw out as I was typing. I think it should be close to 90, but no more than 120. (120 is a LOT)

I thought about the necesity to roll multiple skills depending on what you want to accomplish, but I figured for most tasks, there would be a controlling skill, and the others could be complimentary if necesary. This is to cut down on the number of rolls. If a player WANTS to roll a complimentary roll, then they can, but if they are handling small amounts of power, it probably wouldn't be necesary.

The Giant Statues? I don't even want to attempt a guess! I'm currently reading Winter's Heart...so when I'm done, I should be able to tell you. Right now..I don't really know. Maybe +120? (Gack!) Do they require a Circle to control them, or can a single person control them? I haven't gotten that far in the book yet.

[Nolgroth]

Originally posted by Nu Soard Graphite in the Cybergames Wheel of Time thread.

Ghostnight:

I like your idea about draining the control cost for cutting someone off from the source. It seems to be pretty easy to cut someone off from the source, provided they are about the same or lower power level than you are. The points are about right. (actualy, the Supress power simulates that better than Drain does, because Suppress is automaticaly a continuing power, as long as one pays end to keep a power suppressed, which is in line whith how the WoT deals with cutting Channelers off from the Source)

An average Channeler (VPP 30) can generate a 6D6 suppress (average roll is 21) which can easily suppress the VPP of another average channeler (Control cost 15) but absolutely cannot suppress the VPP of someone of Rands level of power (Control cost 45) which means that a circle is required to cut Rand off from the source!

Now, in the WoT novels, it seemed that someone who was cut off from the source can "Fight" to try to reach the source. The text mentions several instances of those who have been cut off, poking at the sheild that is cutting them off, looking for a way through to the Source. To simulate that, use this system.

Roll a number of Dice equal to the Control cost/5 (Rand would roll 9D6) and roll a contest vs the Suppress, count the body (exactly like a contest of Str), if the person being sheilded looses, they remain cut off from the source, if they win, however, they have broken through the sheild, and can touch the source.

[Nolgroth]

Originally posted by Ghostnight in the Cybergames Wheel of Time thread. In the original message, Ghostnight quoted portions of Nu Soard Graphite's previous post. Quotes left out for brevity.

Doh, my bad. I looked at the campaign material when I got home. We did use something similar to surpress... Dispel it's all or nothing, then we just made it continous. This let someone keep the shield up and shielding was all or nothing... Of course this gives a 5d6 continous dispel for your avg 30pt pool, which can easily shield another 30pt pool (avg. on 5d6 17, control cost of 30pt pool 15pts.) If your quick enough.


RE: Fighting to regain the source.

My roommate and I thought about this and figured(since we are already breaking the rules, why not break some more ) you could push your pool control cost, if your push suceeded in putting your pool pts over the dispel...you were free, otherwise you "up a creek without a paddle".

[Nolgroth]

Originally posted by Corvus in the Cybergames Wheel of Time thread.

When Rand escaped his shielding in that chest (I forget which book), he was looking for what was described as "hardpoints", which represented the actual individuals holding the shield. When he crushed a couple of them escaping, he found that he'd stilled the Aes Sedai in question. When Nynaeve was roped into teaching the WindRunners (or whatever they're called), and the one girl had her shielded, she also found a hardpoint, but, not knowing what it was, she bypassed it. It sounds like there is some direct conflict to keeping someone shielded, they just haven't fully discovered it, yet, except for Rand. Also, how would you block the shielding attempt, a la Nynaeve and Moghedien in Tanchico?

[Nolgroth]

Originally posted by Nolgroth in the Cybergames Wheel of Time thread. In the original message, I quoted Corvus. Quote left out for brevity.

Sounds like you could simulate that with Find Weakness (as a power) vs. Shielding, with the Limitation Extra Time. If you make the Find Weakness roll, the person Shielding you only has half the points available. How else would you do it?

I imagine the battle between Nyneave and Moghedien would be Suppress (Shielding) versus Power Defense (blocking the Shield) with the Limitations Concentrate 1/2 DCV and Costs END. Any other ideas?

[Nolgroth]

Originally posted by Nu Soard Graphite in the Cybergames Wheel of Time thread.

GhostNight:

Dispell works also, but you'd have to put continuous on it (making it cost 6pts per D6) so that they stay cut off from the source. Suppress already has continuous built in (as long as the End is paid) thats why I suggested Suppress...just put a small limitation on it, to make it all or nothing (either the suppress exceeds the control cost, and cuts them from the source, or it doesn't)

Corvus:

Thats exactly what I was trying to represent when I suggested the Control cost Vs Suppress "contest" of body.
The whole stilling thing? Have whoever is sheilding the person who escaped make a "Control" roll as defined in my post about drawing in too much of the one power. On a critical failure, roll the Stilling dice!

Nolgroth:
I agree about blocking an attempt at shielding. Configure some of the Power Pool to Power Defense.

[Nolgroth]

Originally posted by CosmoEmeritus in the Cybergames Wheel of Time thread.

If I may, the description Jordan gives to such conflicts, i.e. Nynaeve vs. Moghedien, seems more like that of a martial arts match. Perhaps this is more accurately prototyped with some kind of ECV vs. ECV combat? Mystic Masters has some examples of this kind of combat I believe.

[Nolgroth]

Originally posted by Nolgroth in the Cybergames Wheel of Time thread.

CosmosEmeritus,

Perhaps, you are correct, but after thinking on the scene more, it was a straight Suppress vs VPP against Suppress vs VPP. Both were trying to cut the other off from the Source.

On a different note, I imagine the Channeling Clause that states "Thirteen dark brothers, thirteen dark sisters, and thirteen myrdraal can turn a channeler from the Light to the Shadow" is represented by a Major Transform. The modifier Requires a Circle of 13 Males,13 Females,and 13 Fades would be appropriate. The question I have is ; Would you require a PC channeler to become an NPC if he/she was changed to the Shadow?

[Nolgroth]

Originally posted by Nolgroth in the Cybergames Wheel of Time thread.

On a different note, I would like to see a complete martial art based on the Blademaster maneuvers described in the books. I imagine some of the maneuvers would fall into the Powers category described by Nu Soard Graphite in another thread.

I only wish Robert Jordan was more explicit in his descriptions of the maneuvers. The poetic names of the maneuvers are quite cool though.

Similarly, there must be a martial art based upon Mat's ashandarei. Of course, naginata-jutsu could easily be substituted. I think the UMA has that art.

Perrin, I think, just has a whole lot of skill levels with the axe.

Off Topic: Do you think Rand or Lan is a better Blademaster (not counting Rand using the Source in the battle)?

[Nolgroth]

Originally posted by Nu Soard Graphite in the Cybergames Wheel of Time thread.

Good idea Nolgroth. I was thinking the exact same thing myself.

Yeah, I would probably base Mat's martial abilities on Naginata-jutsu from the UMA. It would cover his weapon quite nicely. he also has quite a few skill levels and probably some extra DC with the weapon (to represent his memories)

Rand VS Lan? I dunno. Rand has more raw talent, but Lan is WAY more experienced. I would give Rand a higher Dex, but Lan would have more skill levels and probably more maneuvers. Rand is no slouch though, he did beat that Seanchan blademaster without using the source...so his skill has grown considerably.

I agree with the names of the maneuvers. Thats why I'm sure that Rober Jordan adopted Kenjutsu maneuvers to his world setting, because many Kenjutsu styles have equaly poetic names (I've seen manuevers named: Full moon cut or Moonlight cut, Flying Swallow slash, 4 ways cutting, Soaring Lark etc. These are actual Kenjutsu Kumitachi) and evidenced by "Sheathing the Sword" which is the WoT equivalent to Japanese Seppuku.

Even the names of the Kenjutsu styles are elegant. Shinkage Ryu (Heart Reflection style, or God Shadow style) Shinto Seishin Ryu (Tranquil Heart style) Niten Ichi Ryu (Two Hearts as One style). See what I mean?

Perhaps, some time I will design what I think is a good representation of the sword styles found in the Wheel of Time. Right now, I am concentrating on detailing various Kenjutsu styles so I can send it to Bruce to put in Digital Hero....when he finds time to update the webpage, that is...

[Nolgroth]

There was a couple of messages that were off-topic and dealing with kenjutsu maneuvers. The following message picked back up on the topic.

Originally posted by Nolgroth in the Cybergames Wheel of Time thread.

have a question/topic for this thread. How would you all do warders? More specifically, how would you
a) Do the effects of the warder bond.
b) Structure the bond to be an actual power.
c) Buy the warder abilities themselves.

Would you make either the Aes Sedai or the warder candidate pay for the new abilities with exp?

I have some ideas myself, but I want to hear your opinions. I'll post mine in another message.

[Nolgroth]

Originally posted by Nolgroth in the Cybergames Wheel of Time thread.

Okay now that I have posted the question, here are my answers. Please feel free to bash them to bits, especially the rules aspects. If you have a better way, I would like to hear it.

For the first question, the bond would be simulated by a Mind Link bought as a defined group (Aes Sedai to Warder(s)). That way an Aes Sedai could have multiple warders. The books never specify if multiple warders feel each others conditions, location, etc through the bond.

I would tack on a couple of modifiers such as 0 End, Persistent, Always On, Only to determine location, general state of health, emotional state (-1/2) and Aes Sedai can block bond temporarily (+1/4)

In addition, I would make the Aes Sedai and Warder take either a Susceptability or Physical Limitation so that if one were killed, the other would take an immediate Ego attack through the bond.

Warders would also have a Psychological Limitation: Loses interest in living if Aes Sedai is killed, and a Vulnerability x2 effect from Aes Sedai Compulsion (mind control).

On to the next question. This is a pretty straighforward Major Transformation. The trick is to have enough power to complete the bond instantly. The problem with that is with the warder candidate's (presumably) high Body attribute. Would you allow willing candidates to use just their Body rating when determing the effects of the Transform?

Another way would be the "special effect" transformation. It just happens and the special effect is that the Aes Sedai channels a wee bit and voila' instant warder. Now what about unwilling recipients? I'm sure that Alanna should have had a bitch of a time bonding Rand. Even if he was surprised by the bond. Thoughts?

The warder abilities themselves would be easy. They would gain Sense Shadowspawn, 360'. A boost to End, Stun and Recovery. I don't think Regeneration would be appropriate to represent the accelerated healing. It just didn't seem that fast. Besides, with Healing it wouldn't be entirely necessary. Am I missing anything?

As far as where the points come from, this is entirely dependant on the individual GM. I would say that the points from the Disadadvantages would be used to offset the cost of the Bond to both parties. If any excess points were available, then they would be lost. If you wanted to be a rules stickler, then you might make the two parties save up the exp. Finally, you could just say that the Transformation power (bond) grants them the abilities and disadvantages at 0 cost. I personally don't like the last because it sets a bad precedent for future games.

As always, these are just ideas roaming in my head and I would like to hear yours. I have not playtested these ideas, so YMMV.

[Nolgroth]

Originally posted by Nu Soard Graphite in the Cybergames Wheel of Time thread.

Not too shabby Nolgroth. There's only a few things I would do differently.

First of all, Mind link cannot be used to track. (of course, if thats how you want to handle mind-link, then go right ahead) thats what Mind Scan is for....but Mind scan isn't quite right to simulate the Warders ability to find his Aes Sedai. I'd make that into a Detect Bonded/Sense/360^/no range penalty (22pts)

Link it to the Mindlink so that if the mindlink is suppressed or dispelled the detect turns off as well.

I agree about giving Warders extra Stun/End/Rec. (maybe 10pts of each for +10stun/+20End/+5Rec) this, however does not go away if the Bond is disturbed, but will go away if the bond is destroyed (i.e. Transformed off)

The Aes Sedia can purposfully attempt to suppress the Link (just Suppress the Mind Link and the tracking ability goes with it) so that her Warder cannot find her. (this is done in Winters Heart)

I agree that the Psychological and Vulnerability disadvantages can be used to justify/offset the cost of the new abilities.

I would also use Transform to simulate generating the mind link, however, I would use Ego rather than Body for determining when the bond sets in. Cumulative Transform is recommended. I would consider this a Minor transform, since this does not considerably change the target, merely augment it. The effect that will turn it off is the Death of the Aes Sedai that the target is bonded to.

Here's how it breaks down:

Aes Sedai gains:

Mind Link with Warder(s) [10pts]
When an Aes Sedai bonds with a new warder she has to pay an additional 5pts to cover additional minds (2 warders is +5pts. 4 warders for another +5 pts 8 warders for another +5pts etc)

Psychological disadvantage: Attatched to Warder (10pts)

Cost to Aes Sedai (0pts)

Warder Gains:

Mind Link w/Aes Sedai: 5pts.

+10Stun (10pts)
+20End (10pts)
+5Rec (10pts)

Sense Shadowspawn: Detect/Sense/360^ [15pts]

Sense Aes Sedai (Direction and distance) Detect/Sense/360^/No range mod: 22pts

72pts

Psychological Disad: Must protect Aes Sedai (total/Common) [25pts]

DNPC: Aes Sedai (as powerful/14-) [10pts]

Watched: By White Tower (More powerful/NCI/11-) [12pts]

Psychological Disad: Must obey Aes Sedai's orders (Very common/Strong) [20pts]

Reputation: 8- (Warders are known badasses, also they are known to travel with Aes Sedai. This is only 8- because if they are by themselves, they usualy are mistaken for normal warrior or mercenary) [5pts]

Total points 72.

Cost to Warder: 0pts!

Of course, this is up to interpretation by individual GM's as usual.

[Nolgroth]

Originally posted by Nolgroth in the Cybergames Wheel of Time thread.

Nu Soard Graphite,
Well done. I was not thinking of the additional disadvantages that go along with being a Warder (Watched, Reputation, etc).
After re-reading Mind Link (which I should have done before the last post) I think that it is sufficient to do the job without the Sense. I would tack on a limitation for the Warder; Cannot Block Link.

Basically it would look like this

Aes Sedai
Mind Link with Warder (additional points for additional Warders). Any distance (+5). Only to sense general state of health, emotional state and general direction (-1/4).
Base Cost: 10+ After Modifiers: 8

Warder
Mind Link with Aes Sedai. Any Distance (+5). Only to sense general state of health, emotional state and general direction (-1/4), Warder cannot block link (-1/4).
Base Cost: 10 After Modifiers: 7

That is my take on the matter. I would still say that the Warder is Vulnerable to Aes Sedai Compulsion as well. Since mental attacks through the Mind Link are at 0 ECV (for the Warder), that may be enough to simulate that Vulnerability.

[Nolgroth]

Originally posted by Nolgroth in the Cybergames Wheel of Time thread.

On a similar note, what other Disadvantages would you apply to Aes Sedai themselves? Some examples are:

-Distinctive Features: Ageless Appearance (Easily Concealable, Causes Major Reaction or Prejudice)

-Reputation 11- (Tar Valon Witch, Extreme)

(Whether they are respected or hated, they always seem to cause a great fuss).

-Watched by White Tower (11-, More Pow, NCI)

-Physical Limitations: Cannot Lie, Cannot use the One Power as a weapon except against Shadowspawn and in defense of herself, other Aes Sedai, or her Warder, and Cannot make weapons with the One Power.

(Since the Three Oaths cannot be disobeyed after the Aes Sedai swears upon the Oath Rod, I thought they should be Physical Limitations).

As an alternative to the Watched being 11-, you can simulate the progression of trust from Novice to Sister pretty easily. Novice 14-, Accepted 11-, and Aes Sedai 8-. As an interesting aside, a Sitter of the Hall, Keeper of the Chronicles and/or Amrylin Seat would probably be watched as closely as a Novice or Accepted. The downside to political influence.

Any thoughts on the matter?

[Nolgroth]

Originally posted by Nu Soard Graphite in the Cybergames Wheel of Time thread.

Great breakdown on the Disads of an Aes Sedai!

Here's some additional disads that are typical of women of specific Ajah...

Red: Psychological Disad: Hates men who channel (uncommon/strong)[10pts]

Blue: Psychological Disad: Curiosity (Common/Moderate) [10pts]

Green: Psychological Disad: Permiscuous (Common/moderate) [10pts]

Yellow: Psychological Disad: Cannot ignore wounded (uncommon/strong) [10pts]

Brown: Psychological Disad: Distracted (common/moderate) [10pts] note-this means that Brown's generaly are contemplating some acedemic puzzle and often miss things that are obvious to others. They should make perception rolls to notice things that would normaly be obvious...

White: Psychological Disad: Self Important (common/moderate) [10pts] note-this means that Whites normaly see themselves as having a higer purpose (studying the prophecies etc) than those of others.

Grey: Psychological Disad: Aloof (common/Moderate) [10pts] note-this disad means that the Grey will oftentimes not involve themselves in matters just to not be seen taking a side. This is only a Moderate level, so if it is something truely important, they will choose a side based on the information they posses.

Note, that these aren't set in stone, but merely the "stereotype" assosciated with each particular Ajah. Certain personality types generaly pick the Ajah that most suits them (Such as Nynaeve's decision to pick Yellow because of her background as a Wisdom) but by no means does this mean every member of a particular Ajah acts in the said manner (Elayne picked the Green, simply because she felt that it would be less unsusual because she planned to have multiple Warders, after bonding Birgitte)

For those who are interested, a great WOT site that I have found is located at:

http://64.128.72.85/~ewot/

Check it out. Its like a MASSIVE encyclopedia. Its a very well done site.

[Nolgroth]

Originally posted by Nolgroth in the Cybergames Wheel of Time thread.

Okay, I've been pretty busy coming up with questions. Thanks for answering NuSoard Graphite. I do have another one (for now).

What about Ogier and Ogier abilities and restrictions?

Other than massive size and strength, Loial seemed to be a Singer (or more precisely Treesinger). The only time we actually got to "see" him perform this ability is when Rand, the thief-taker (be darned if I could remember his name) and Loial were in the alternate world where they met Selene (Lanfear). There, he sung a staff out of a tree.

There are numerous other references to Sung Wood. The inn that Moiraine, Lan, Perrin, and Loial stayed at had a Sung Wood bed. (They were chasing Rand. This was where Perrin freed Gaul and met Faile). Loial has made several references to Singers along the way.

So my question is; How do you define a Treesinger's abilities?

My answer is a Minor Transformation. Sung Wood can take many forms, apparently, and also may have properties that differentiate it from normal wood, but it is still basically just changing the shape of wood.

I see no problem with using Treesinging to create staves or axe handles. At best, I would give them 1 DEF higher than normal hard wood. It just doesn't strike me as something that can be abused if the GM is on his toes. There is only so much wood that a tree can give up and survive.

In EotW, Loial sang to the sapling created after the Green Man passed on. He indicated that it would remain pure even when the Blight overtook the rest of the area around it. To me this is a special effect, as it would not have any lasting mechanical effect in the game. It might prove to be one of those legendary acts that the next age refers to, but other than that I see no long-term effects to worry about.

The other ability is to Sense or Detect Sung Wood. Either Detect or Sense seems appropriate and I do not remember the dialogue enough to remember if Loial immediately knew his bed was Sung Wood or if he had to examine it. Given Mr. Jordan's tendency to make detection of abnormal abilities more like a Sense, that is the way I would define it.

Now, the dependance of stedding for the Ogier is a lot harder to define. If it is defined as anything more than a special effect, the point value from a Dependancy or Susceptability would be 0. Perhaps a low point Physical Limitation. Personally I would simply let all players running Ogier know that they had to return to the stedding after 'x' number of game months.

On to a cultural examination. Ogier are true to a given promise, even to the point of placing themselves in great physical danger. The Ogier of Illian left without completing their work, which leaves some doubt as to the absoluteness of that statement. Perhaps Loial, being young and not so pessimistic as an older Ogier, might have tried to live up to the reputation of stalwart loyalty. Maybe there is an escape clause somewhere, such as non-payment of fees, that allowed the Illian Ogier to remove themselves from the city.

Anyway, here are my rules interpretations.

Treesinging
2D6 Minor Transformation: Living Tree to Sung Wood item of any shape. [Cumulative (+1/2), Limited Class of Objects (+1/4), Concentrate 1/2 DVC (-1/4), Incantations 1/4), Extra Time: 1 minute (-1 1/2)]
Active Points: 17 Real Cost: 6

Sense Sung Wood
Detect (as Sense)
Active Points: 5 Real Cost: 5

I have not defined Loial's actions in the Blight, as it seemed more of a special effect than a truly useful power.

As a final note, as a GM I would add +1 DEF to whatever type of wood was being Sung. It is a minor enough bonus that it shouldn't have a great deal of effect.

As part of the Ogier culture, I would encourage or require the two Psychological Limitations below.

Protective of Trees. Will not intentionally harm a tree by any means unless there is grave need (Common, Strong)

Always Keeps Word. Will risk injury or death to keep his oath. Will only break oath if he is betrayed by the person he is sworn to. (Very Common, Total).

That about sums it up. I would really like to hear your thoughts on the matter. Sorry about the epic length posts recently.

[Nolgroth]

Originally posted by Nolgroth in the Cybergames Wheel of Time thread.

Here's yet another one. I really need to get a life.

To further differentiate between male and female channelers, I would base the male Channeling skill on Ego and the females' on Presence.

How would you simulate the ability to "tie off" a weave? Change the pool so the power has the Uncontrolled and Continuous Advantages? This is especially important when someone is Shielded for long periods of time.

I would define a Weave that has been tied off as so:

<Power> (Continuous, Uncontrolled, Reduced END; 0 END, Persistent) The power would still count towards the points in the Channeling pool and/or the maximum number of different Weaves (powers) the character can have active (usually INT/5)

[Nolgroth]

Well folks, that's the extent of what I had saved. After the last message I had, there were probably between five to ten more posts (mostly from Nu Soard Graphite) concerning Blademastery as a martial art. I wish that I had saved them, but I never got around to saving the page again. Sorry NuSoard.

Now that the old stuff is there (and I've had a chance to read it again) I will probably have some revisions to my older ideas and maybe even some new ideas to boot. Hope you all enjoyed the little glimpse into the past.

[Mavnn]

Damn! It's a pity you don't have NuSoard's blademaster posts - they were a great example of using HERO's martial arts system, giving lots of forms with a small number of martial maneuvers. I kept on meaning to save them to use as flavour text in games.

"Your opponent starts the flowing arcs of the 'Dragonfly's Beating Wings' Defense." - GM
"That's a Defensive Block with skill levels in DCV normally followed by a counter strike, right?" - Player
"Make an Analysis Skill roll and hope you beat his feint..." -GM

Michael

[NuSoardGraphite]

You da man, Nolgroth!

Now that (most of) the old messages are posted here, any opinions? Gripes? Additions?

I'll be thinking of some more to add in the days ahead (and of course will be updating the Blademaster arts to the 5th edition)

Thanks again Nolgroth.

[Nolgroth]

Mavnn,
I too wish that I had foresight enough to save those messages before the old message boards crashed. It sounds as if the 5th edition has changed some of the martial arts stuff, but at least it would have given NuSoardGraphite some prototypes to work from.


NuSoardGraphite,
It was my pleasure to post those messages. We had a really good thread going back then. Usually, I try to save the threads that get me interested. I lost a couple of them with a data crash, but this one I managed to back up to CD-ROM before the loss. I'm glad you appreciate it.

[ShadowRaptor]

I am glad you had the forsigith to save the thread. Thanks a lot.

[Xandarr]

Hey NSG... I didn't keep the whole thread, but I did keep all the maneuvers list that you had posted, which went up to L the last time I was able to read the old boards. I'll post them here. Keep in mind these are from a .txt file, but I did try to add respectable formatting, but if you want to copy and clean them up, then repost, they're all yours.

Of course, they always were. I was just hanging onto them for you. :)

Apple Blossoms in the Wind:
((Attack)):
Maneuver: Offensive Strike(-2/+1/+2)
Hit Location: 1D6+3(-4)
Skill Levels: Split OCV/DC
Note: An attempt at chopping the head/neck, though a glancing blow will usualy hit the shoulder (should treat a roll of 8 as shoulder)

((Defense)):
Maneuver: Martial Block(+2/+2/-)
Hit Location: N/A
Skill Levels: All to OCV
Note: Active defense vs Multiple attackers

Arc of the Moon
((Attack)):
Maneuver: Sacrifice Strike(+1/-2/+2)
Hit Location: 2D6+4(-1)
Skill Levels: To OCV/DC
Note: Intention is to sever Stomach/vitals or Chest. Also, good VS mounted opponents (attack arcs upward from kneeled to standing position)

((Defense)):
Maneuver: Defensive block(+1/+3/-)
Hit Location: N/A
Skill Levels: Split between OCV/DCV
Note: wide swing of blade, meant to keep opponent at bay more than an actual parry (but can be used to parry) Skill levels should be placed in DCV first, then OCV if swordsman posses enough levels.

Black Pebbles on Snow
((Attack)):
Maneuver: Martial Strike(+0/+2/+1)
Hit Location: 11 (-3)
Skill Levels: Split between OCV/DCV
Note: A tuck and roll into a mid-level slash. Requires an acrobatics roll. Acrobatics bonus should be put to DCV.

((Defense)):
Maneuver: Martial Dodge(+0/+5/-) Or Defensive block(+1/+3/-)
Hit Location: N/A
Skill Levels: DCV of course
Note: Used vs multiple opponents. The tuck and roll can be used to dodge. The block version can be used against multiple opponents, also to set up a counter-attack against one of the opponents next phase (the counter-attack is usualy a kick technique)

Boar Rushes Downhill
((Attack)):
Maneuver: Offensive Strike(-2/+1/+2)
Hit Location: 2D6+1(-2)
Skill Levels: to OCV
Note: A vertical slash. See also Boar rushes down the Mountain.

((Defense)):
Maneuver: Martial Block(+2/+2/-)
Hit Location: N/A
Skill Levels: OCV
Note: Pretty standard. Normaly used to counter an upswinging blade.

Boar Rushes Down the Mountain
((Attack))
Maneuver: Sacrifice Strike(+1/-2/+2)
Hit Location: 2D6+1(-2)
Skill Levels: to DC. Odd levels to OCV.
Note: This is the "all out attack" version of Boar Rushes Downhill. It will leave one open to counter attack, so use wisely. If the technique connects, it should cleave one's opponent in two, however.

((Defense)):
Maneuver: Martial Block(+2/+2/-)
Hit Location: N/A
Skill Levels: To OCV
Note: Same as Boar Rushes Downhill. GM's might want to apply weapon damage on a successful block with this mighty blow.

Bundling Straw
((Attack)):
Maneuver: Fast Strike(+2/+0/+1)
Hit Location: 1D6+3(-4)
Skill Levels: to OCV
Note: A swordsman with enough skill levels should just go ahead and aim for location-3(head) or 4(face)

((Defense)):
Maneuver: Fast Strike(+2/+0/+1)
Hit Location: 1D6+3(-4)
Skill Levels: to OCV
Note: Used "defensively" this starts with a "Feint" attack. If the opponent falls for the Feint (use sleight of hand) punch them in the face with the pommel of the sword. (Str+2D6 damage) Feint maneuvers are good for forcing opponents to do things they might not ordinarily do. A successful feint may cause an opponent to block rather than attack. (use a perception roll to see if they fall for the feint maneuver)

Cat Crossing the Courtyard
This is more a posture/movement technique than an attack or defense maneuver. If someone is using Cat Crossing the Courtyard, they alert and ready to attack/defend at any moment...thus, Skill levels should be split between OCV and DCV when using Cat Crossing the Courtyard in anticipation of combat. This also denotes someone moving with Combat speed rather than Non-combat speed. DCV is full and they should gain a +1 Perception bonus to check for suprise (they are ALERT)

Cat Dances on the Wall
((Attack)):
Maneuver: Fast Strike(+2/+0/+1)
Hit Location: 2D6+1(-2)
Skill Levels: split OCV/DCV
Note: A complicated spinning move.

((Defense)):
Maneuver: Martial Dodge(+0/+5/-)
Hit Location: N/A
Skill Levels: to DCV
Note: Used to keep opponent at bay. Next phase, use feint maneuver to fake attack on current opponent and switch opponents last minute. Great suprise move.

Cat on Hotstand
((Attack)):
Maneuver: Martial Strike(+0/+2/+1)
Hit Location: 2D6+4(-1)
Skill Levels: Split OCV/DCV
Note: Often follows Apple Blossoms in the Wind.

((Defense)):
Maneuver: Half phase move(n/a)
Hit Location: N/A
Skill Levels: ? (depends)
Note: this is a half phase move to get into position to your opponents flank. Be advised that this move opens you up for an attack for a moment, however, after the move is finished, one may launch an attack at the opponents flank (note with this move, one gives initiative to their opponent, but after opponent has acted, they gain the bonus for attacking the opponent from behind)

Courtier Taps his Fan
((Attack)):
Maneuver: Fast Strike(+2/+0/+1)
Hit Location: 1D6+3(-4)
Skill Levels: Split OCV/DC
Note: Use a Feint maneuver first...this simulates knocking your opponents blade to the side. Basicaly a more complicated version of Bundling Straw

((Defense)):
Maneuver: Martial Block(+2/+2/-)
Hit Location: N/A
Skill Levels: OCV
Note: Use the block to knock an opponents attack aside. Follow up next phase with Bundling Straw.

Creeper Embraces the Oak
((Attack)):
Maneuver: Defensive Strike(+1/+3/+0)
Hit Location: 2D6+4(-1)
Skill Levels: to DCV
Note: Use a half phase move to circle opponent. A series of short thrusts to keep opponent at bay. (usualy only one or two will connect)

((Defense)):
Maneuver: Defensive Block(+1/+3/-)
Hit Location: N/A
Skill Levels: to DCV
Note: Half move to circle opponent. Keep moving blade from high to low gaurd to keep opponent guessing. Opponent should be confused on how to attack (thus the high DCV)

Cutting the Clouds
((Attack)):
Maneuver: Fast Strike(+2/+0/+1)
Hit Location: 6(-6)
Skill Levels: to OCV
Note: This move is used if the blades are locked (during a Weapon Bind). If the attacker initiated the bind, he may use this technique anytime thereafter, as long as his opponent does not break the bind before. If one is the defender in a weapon bind, one may use this technique immediately after breaking the bind. This may make a great suprise move. Give opponent a perception roll to see if they notice...if they fail give the attacker +1 to OCV/2pts they fail by (this goes toward cancelling some of that high OCV penalty to hit the wrist) Basicaly, twisting the blades so that one hits the opponents wrists. Ouch! (Vader used this on Luke in Empire)

((Defense)):
Maneuver: Martial Block(+2/+2/-)
Hit Location: N/A
Skill Levels: Split OCV/DCV
Note: normally used to defend against an opponent who is on higher ground (possibly mounted)

Thats all for now. (Much) more later!


And here's another....


Actually, its not as expensive as you might think. Basically, each Sword Form is open to someone provided they know the required maneuvers and skills.
Example would be, if a Swordsman had the Offensive Strike maneuver with their sword, they would be able to use:

Apple Blossoms in the Wind
Boar Rushes Downhill

Someone with the Fast Strike maneuver would be able to use:
Bundling Straw
Cat Dances on the Wall
Courtier Taps his Fan
Cutting the Clouds

Someone with Martial Block could use:
Apple Blossoms in the Wind
Boar Rushes Downhill
Boar Rushes Down the Mountain
Courtier Taps his Fan
Cutting the Clouds.

Of course, to be able to use a specific Sword Form, one must have both the Offensive maneuver and Defensive maneuver required to completely know the Form.

All a Form does is decide how the Skill levels are to be spent and the type of Hit Location modifier that is to be used (if any).

Also, with this specific system in use, an Analyze Style skill roll will go a long way toward giving a character a good idea of what attack or defense to use against their opponent.

Player: "I've made my Analyze Style roll by 3pts"
GM: "Okay. It looks like your opponent is preparing to use Arc of the Moon That means it is going to come toward your midsection and has a High OCV and potentially high damage."
Player: "Okay. I'll use Boar Rushes Downhill to block"
GM: "Good! That move is a good counter to Arc of the Moon so I'll give you a bonus of +1 to your OCV to block because you anticipated his action well"
Player: "Kick ass!"

See what I mean?

It also provides a pretty good aid (since you know what the Form looks like when being preformed) to help visualize the combat.

If anyone has anything they feel they can add to it, please post!


And one more....


Here is the 2cnd part of my list of Sword Forms from The Wheel of Time translated to Hero System terms.


Dandelion in the Wind
((Attack)):
Maneuver: Counterstrike (+2/+2/+1)
Hit Location: 5 (-8)
Skill Levels: All to OCV
Notes: This Form must follow a successful block. Automatically aims for the throat (-8!) for X2 body and X5 stun multiplier. The hit penalty may seem severe, but remember, the +2OCV bonus from the Counterstrike maneuver (down to -6) and a well balanced blade will have a +1 OCV (longswords, Katana etc) now we're down to -5. A few skill levels will bring this down to something reasonable. Use this against scrubbs, not experienced opponents.

((Defense)):
Maneuver: Martial Dodge (+0/+5/-)
Hit Location: N/A
Skill Levels: To DCV
Notes: Lean back to avoid an attack.

The Falcon Stoops
((Attack)):
Maneuver: Basic Strike (+1/+0/+1)
Hit Location: 2D6+1 (-2)
Skill Levels: split OCV/DCV
Notes: Reverse-grip diagonal slash from High to low.

((Defense)):
Maneuver: Flying Dodge (+0/+4/-)
Hit Location: N/A
Skill Levels: DCV
Notes: Used when faced with 2 attackers. This requires a skill vs skill contest. Sleight of hand vs Perception. If the PC using this maneuver beats the opponents perception, they fool them into thinking they are going to be engaged, and makes them commit to movement in the wrong direction. The PC will then move to face the other opponent, singling them out. (If this is succesful the "fooled" opponent looses the chance to attack this phase and must use enough movement to re-engage next phase)

The Falling Leaf
((Attack)):
Maneuver: Offensive Strike (-2/+1/+2)
Hit Location: 2D6+1 (-2)
Skill Levels: +1DC(2) Rest to OCV
Notes: A "double" slash attack. Passes across the body twice.

((Defense)):
Maneuver: Martial Dodge (+0/+5/-)
Hit Location: N/A
Skill Levels: DCV
Notes: A crouching Dodge. Avoids high attacks.

Folding the Fan
A sword sheathing technique. Requires a Fast Draw roll at -2 to perform correctly. On a critical failure a character will impale themself. Do basic weapon damage to location 12 (ouch!) On a critical success it adds 2D6 to Presence attacks to impress. If this is successful, it is a 0-phase action to sheath the weapon (which usualy takes a half phase to do safely).

The Grapevine Twines
((Attack)):
Maneuver: Sacrifice Disarm (+2/-2/+10STR)
Hit Location: N/A
Skill Levels: OCV
Notes: Used to disarm an opponent after a weapon bind is initiated.

((Defense)):
Maneuver: Martial Disarm (-1/+1/+10STR)
Hit Loction: N/A
Skill Levels: Split OCV/DCV (DCV priority)
Notes: This is the defensive version. This is used if one is the defender in a weapon bind. Once the bind is broken, use this to disarm your opponent, but remain defensive in case the disarm is unsuccessful.

Heron Spreads its Wings
((Attack)):
Maneuver: Sacrifice Strike (+1/-2/+2)
Hit Location: 2D6+1 (-2)
Skill Levels: split OCV/DC (Priority, DC)
Notes: Leaves attacker open to attack. Be careful. Powerful attack however.

((Defense)):
Maneuver: Defensive Block (+1/+3/-)
Hit Location: N/A
Skill Levels: split OCV/DCV (priority, DCV)
Notes: Used vs 2 or more opponents. Block 1 opponent, dodge the others (high dcv)

Heron Wading in the Rushes
((Attack)):
Maneuver: Sacrifice Strike (+1/-2/+2)
Hit Location: 2D6+1 (-2)
Skill Levels: all to DCV
Notes: Attacker gives initiative to the opponent. Push Strength to maximize damage. Considered suicide in a fight against skilled opponents. The advantage of this maneuver is if your opponent is dedicated to attacking (has already moved) they can mount no defense...neither parry or dodge is an option, and must take this blow as it is delivered. Skilled opponents can do considerable damage with this maneuver, provided their opponents attack does not kill them outright before they can deliver the fatal blow.

((Defense)):
Maneuver: Martial Dodge (+0/+5/-)
Hit Location: N/A
Skill Levels: DCV
Notes: Keeping opponent at sword range...use half move to move away from opponent.

Hummingbird Kisses the Honeyrose
((Attack)):
Maneuver: Basic Strike (+1/+0/+1)
Hit Location: 10 (-3)
Skill Levels: OCV/DCV
Notes: A quick thrust to the opponents chest. A balanced maneuver. A true Blademaster may want to turn this maneuver into an Autofire attack to simulate the ability to do quick, multiple thrusts in succession.

((Defense)):
Maneuver: Martial Dodge (+0/+5/-)
Hit Location: N/A
Skill Levels: DCV
Notes: Dodge by pivoting and stepping into your opponents guard.

Kingfisher Takes a Silverback
((Attack))
Maneuver: Ballestra (+2/-2/+2)
Hit Location: 1D6+3 (-4)
Skill Levels: Split OCV/DCV (priority, OCV)
Notes: Half move required. Drop to one knee and high-thrust, follow through and past opponent, and pivot to guard stance.

((Defense)):
Maneuver: Defensive Block (+1/+3/-)
Hit Location: N/A
Skill Levels: +1OCV rest to DCV
Note: Requires an Acrobatics roll. Acrobatic bonus is used for DCV. Tuck and roll past opponent. Blade is then used to block an overhead strike (if forthcomming)

Kissing the Adder
((Attack)):
Maneuver: Basic Strike (+1/+0/+1)
Hit Location: 10 (-3)
Skill Levels: +1 to OCV. Rest to DC
Notes: An attempt to stab the heart (thus the reason for skill levels to DC) On a Disabling wound, it can be assumed that the Heart is pierced and death is iminent.

((Defense)):
Maneuver: Flying Dodge (+0/+4/-)
Hit Location: N/A
Skill Levels: DCV
Notes: Requires an acrobatics roll. Add acrobatics bonus to DCV. Full move away from opponents to gain distance.

Leopard in High Grass
An improved version of Cat Crosses the Courtyard. A walking stance used when enemies are on all side. Requires Combat Sense (used to negate suprise attacks from the rear). DCV is full (as with Cat)
and the Swordsman has +2 to Perception to detect attackers. (this counts toward Combat sense also)
Requires: Combat Sense. Defense Maneuver. Minimum 4 skill levels with their Sword Arts.

More to come.....


Yes, there is still quite a few manuevers left to write up....we're only down to "M". It goes to "W"

NSG



There you go... that's all that I had.

Enjoy,
Steve

[Mavnn]

Good man!

[Nolgroth]

I think Xandarr's post just about sums up the "meat" of the old thread. Glad somebody saved that stuff. Well done.

[Mavnn]

... brain ticking over slowly ...

I seem to remember a few posts after this once Fred was out, detailing ideas for using multiple manuever sweeps to perform some of the forms. (ie. for the ones that suggest AF, reserving that for a real master and letting everyone else perform it as a sweep - and maybe letting real masters sweep the AF attack, although that's more Exalted than Wheel of Time).

Michael

[NuSoardGraphite]

feints

Well...looks like the whole thread is back. Now its just up to us to continue it...

[Nolgroth]

What I have been wanting to do is consolidating all the ideas in those previous posts into one (lengthy) document and seeing how it looks. I know that I have changed my opinion, somewhat, on how Channeling should work.

I really need to look over the rules constructs, as written, and see if and how they could be improved in the 5th Edition.

Does anybody here know of a source, online or in print, that defines which of the Five powers are involved in particular Weaves?

[NuSoardGraphite]

I'll look around in the next few days. There is one page in particular by a rabid WoT fan that is quite large and informative. I'll look there first. If I find anything, I'll post a link.

[Nolgroth]

Thanks. I've been looking around for something myself, but have had no luck to date.

[t-bear]

I'm currently adapting WoT to the Hero system for a game with my friend and I. Mostly I'm doing it to learn the Hero system better.

I'll post more info on what I come up with when I've got more done and such, but I was wondering if a more experienced hero system guru and WoT fan out there would be interested in posting their idea of a Trolloc build? With the idea in mind of PC's built in about 175 total points?

Thanks =)

[NuSoardGraphite]

Thats one thing we absolutely need in here;

Stats for Trollocks and Fades!

Post away my friend.

Unfortunately, I'm unable to get on the internet regularly, or I'd be finishing my list of Sword Maneuvers and adapting them to FREd...

[James Gillen]

I should see if Gary Ciaramella can contribute to this. He's giving me his WoT novels to read (I just finished Path of Daggers) and he also has the D20 game.

JG

[NuSoardGraphite]

I've been reading the latest book, which has given up quite a bit of information on the Warder/Aes Sedai bond. Apparently if the person Bonded can also channel, they can feel each other channelling through the bond, though they can't actually see anything or tell whats going on, they know their channelling.

Interesting, no?

Lets keep this thread going folks. Hopefully I'll be able to get back to the Blademaster arts very soon.

[Sociotard]

While I think Robert Jordan's writing style leaves a lot to be desired, the magic system in his world is one of my favorites. I also have the D20 book. I have been trying to convert some of the weaves etc. into hero system with mixed results. So far, I have all of the Cloud Dancing ones more or less done. Several of them had to be done with little tweaks in the rules. Dang! the librarian just turned off the lights to get me to leave, so I'll post some more tomorrow. I had it set up so characters bought 5 different VPP's of different strengths, and bought skills for different 'talents', such as "Cloud dancing"
They draw from their vpp's to supply the cost of the power and make a skill roll for the right talent. For example: Summon lightning uses Air and Fire. Characters can draw from both pools (though no more than 4/5 of the necessary real point cost can come from an individual pool) Assuming they have sufficient points, they make a skill roll. Summon lightning falls under Cloud dancing, so they roll for that skill.

Oh yeah, Characters also make an ego roll to connect with the source. As long as they hold it they are considered concentrating. They don't have to make additional ego rolls as long as they don't release the source. To simulate how tiring the source is, they cannot take recovery while holding onto the source

[Muldegian]

I have a buch of d20 stuff for the WoT on my website...Call of the Horn (http://www.mabinogin.com/Old%20Web/Callmain.htm).

There are some adventures and other stuff even if it is only the ideas and reseach that turns out to be useful.

Randy ~Eosin the Red ~Muldegian\


PS - I broke my template when I chaged hosts a few days ago so the navigation may be bad in spots.
Sorry.

[NuSoardGraphite]

I was sitting at work, doing doughnuts with my forklift because I was bored and there was nothing to do when it came to me:

You can represent Talent with a particular aspect of The One Power with Penalty Skill Levles!!!!!

My mind started going into overdrive then, thinking of other things as well.

One thing I would like to do though is develop a list of Talents that we've seen in the books so far. Here's what I remember off-hand:

Healing
Dreaming
Fortelling
Delving
Enchanting (I forget the term they use when one is creating an Angreal or Ter'angreal)


Can anyone think of any more Talents (or categories of using the One Power) and possibly what kind of weaves are used in them (I know Earth figures heavily in creating Angreal etc)

[NuSoardGraphite]

Bumping the thread for Eosin...

[Eosin]

I think I am gonna run with the 5 Skills and VPP on the write-ups that I am doing. One of the big honkers with the One Power is predefining the power of the One Power.

Rand is the most powerful channeler in the world BAR NONE.
Ishi is next in the scale
....
...
...
Alvia
Nyn
Taim
Logain
Egwene
....
...
Suiane
Moiroine

The scale is just to give you guys an idea of what I am talking about. SO my question would be what is the absolute limit on the One Power VPP. Remember that this limits your active costs also.

IMO - Rand is busting down a 150-180 point VPP
By the time we get to the Suiane/Moir levels we are already down to the 90-100 point level and your average sister is a 60 pt VPP with weak sisters coming in with 45 pt VPP. Less than weak means they were turned away aftewr some training.

One other comment on the Angraels. Most of them should have a built in buffer - the little fat man should give +4 to all One Power Rolls. Some of the Sa' Angraels do not seem to offer as much protection - perhaps they only have +1 per 20 AP and Callandor stacks 90 Points onto the VPP and adds no Skill - this would mean it was unbuffered and prone to burning out users.


Is that a good representation?

Check out the thread where I am writing some of the Wheel characters up. Feel free to pick at them and let me know where I have gone wrong.

[nightbringer256]

wow this thread is really interesting.
just trying to revie (sp) the thread

[James Gillen]

The scale is just to give you guys an idea of what I am talking about. SO my question would be what is the absolute limit on the One Power VPP. Remember that this limits your active costs also.

Whatever it takes to use Balefire, which not only kills the target but erases his history retroactively, as when Rand used it against a Forsaken, thus inadvertently saving the Aiel the villain had just killed.

JG

[Mutant for Hire]

You really should ask Steve Long. I mean he did the WoT RPG book. I'm sure he'd love to help out with more WoT stuff. :D

[Lord Liaden]

For interested parties, we have other great WoT HERO stuff on the boards:

Character writeups:
http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12881

Magic system writeups:
http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24376

[Nolgroth]

So, Nu Soard Graphite, you said that you were about 3/4 done with the Blademaster martial arts stuff. Have you "officially" completed them yet? :)

If I were to throw together a Wheel of Time for HERO website, would you mind if I used the blademaster rules? I've been debating the idea for a while and I think that I might have enough mental energy to actually build and maintain a project like that.

(And bump to keep the thread alive.)

[NuSoardGraphite]

No, I have been unable to complete that project due to some other considerations (computer problems and whatnot. I'm not using my own computer at this time)

Feel free to use them as much as you wish. Its why I posted them.

In a month or so, I should be able to get back to them. There aren't really that many to finish writing (I just hope the pages I was referrencing still exist!) so it shouldn't take too long once I get back to it.

In fact, I may competely revise them, so they are better implemented, as what I posted here was my first draft....

[Ndreare]

You really should ask Steve Long. I mean he did the WoT RPG book. I'm sure he'd love to help out with more WoT stuff. :D

Noy likely, When doing Fantasy HERO he implied he did not like Wheel of Time. It was right after he finished Wheel of Time the Role Playing Game, so mabey he was fed up with it? I remeber his asking though for Suggested Reading from board members and it was one book he mentioned in a negative light. (I would put a link here but am unable to find anything older than Feb 2003 in the search)

(Also I am sure there would be copy right concerns with him owning the company to work on another companies licenced material.)

[Nolgroth]

I can definately relate to the "other considerations" issue. For the last couple of years, work has been sucking all of my mental energy. Now things have settled down a little bit and I'm starting to feel the urge to create and expand what we've done with WoT (and other stuff too).

Well, if you are planning to re-create the system, I'm open to waiting around for it. I have a lot of stuff to do myself. At least the basic web page layout is prepared so all I have to do is create content. Of course, that is the hard part.

Good luck.

[Nolgroth]

Noy likely, When doing Fantasy HERO he implied he did not like Wheel of Time.

I remember the thread. Mr. Long was highly disinclined towards WoT. Sounded like he just didn't like the series at all. I've noticed that WoT has the love/hate reaction among those who read it.

[Nolgroth]

Back to a relatively "on-topic" question. What time period do you think would be the best to run a campaign in. As far as I see it you have several choices.

Age of Legends
Sounds very much like our own modern world with the exception of being much more of a Utopia than we have. Ter-Angrael seemed to provide the basis for clean energy and a technology that is at least what we are used to, if not higher. In Nynaeve's first battle with Moghedian, there was a mention of travelling to other planets.
I think a campaign in the Era would have to be after the Dark One's prison was breeched. The War of Power/Shadow would make a great campaign backdrop, though I have the feeling it may end up being like Military Fantasy.

The Breaking
Obviously a dangerous time for everybody. This would very much be a post-apoc type of setting. I can't imagine any sort of stable base for any communities.
We got to see what the Aiel went through with Rand's visit to Rhuidean, but what about the other people that eventually settled the remaining part of the world. Could be fun to play in, but I think a campaign would include a great deal of small conflicts.

The Covenent of Ten Nations
The world is starting to settle down and order is restored. The Ogier have just completed Tar Valon. Plenty of action and intrigue to be had.

Trolloc Wars
Another ideal time to role-play in. What more could you ask for? Massive amounts of Trollocs, Myrdraal and other Shadowspawn crunchiness. Of course, most things would tend to be large scale. Afterall, Manetheran was destroyed and Aridhol became Shadar Logoth during this time period.

Hawkwing's Empire
Another timeframe where intrigue and action can take a very important part. As another option, the journey of Luthair Pendraeg to Seancean might be a fun campaign to play with.

Between Hawkwing and Rand
A huge space of time that could encompass a lot of different styles of adventures. While there were many documented cases of momentous events, there is still enough leeway to do some pretty interesting stuff.

Interlude:
With the exception of the Age of Legends, you are going to have problems with having any male channelers. They are going to go insane, rot to death, and/or be hunted down and stilled or executed. While this would certainly be a feasible character concept, it might make for some mighty uncomfortable role-playing. These time periods are definately a call for non-channeling males.

The Dragon Reborn
This is the most likely time period to play in. Most details of the world setting are known. Male channelers may be able to hold off the effects of the Taint until Rand cleanses it.
Many new and old things are coming into their own in this time. Wolfbrothers and the Hornbound are being reborn. The old rules and expectations are breaking down. Almost anything can happen in a world nearing apocalyps.
The downside to this era would be running the campaign without crossing paths with the majority of the named characters. Also, Tarmon Gai'don would certainly be a campaign pauser, if not stopper.

The Fourth Age
Supposedly the world will be Broken again by the Dragon Reborn. What happens after that is open to speculation. There are a few references to scholarly work completed during the Fourth Age, but very little of the world condition has been revealed.
In some ways, this is an ideal setting to play in. There are no boundaries or expectations to live up to. The male half of the Source is clean and ready to use. You can do almost anything with the setting....
....Almost like creating a new setting unto itself. Moving into the Fourth Age would almost like not being in the WoT universe at all. Of course, references to the Third Age and the Dragon Reborn and the Second Breaking could be intertwined readily into the setting.

So there it is. Any thoughts?

[Nolgroth]

Just a link to study the chronology of the WoT setting.

http://www.sevenspokes.com/index.html

[Eosin]

I think the trolloc wars era is best for a huge number of reasons - I started to detail the setting under d20 but never finished.

Check out this thread (http://www.callofthehorn.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3) on the relevant info for the era.

[Nolgroth]

Fantastic resource Eosin. I really like the way that each nation was encapsulated into a single message with all the functional details required. I also like the conditions summary at the bottom about the state of the Ways and such. Those little bullet comments are very useful.

My one and only objection to running in any pre-Cleansing of the Taint timeframe would be that male channelers are really not viable, long-term characters. I would also think that if a PC running a male channeler decided to declare himself the Dragon Reborn, their could be problems.

Of couse, that's what Portal Stone Worlds are all about. :)

By the by, how much useful information (meaning non d20 specific) can be found in the role-playing books? I keep my distance from d20 material so I was just wondering if it would be a reference worth shelling out the cash for.

[Eosin]

The WOT d20 RPG can be fairly useful but the overwhelming majority of it is rules - funny enough that is where I got most of my use. Knowing the different weaves, overchanneling, Initiate vrs Wilder type stuff helped me with my Hero version of WOT. If you can find it in a used section, I would consider picking it up. However, my site basically has everything one could ever need to play the game in any system but d20. It also has 100 or so roll laying Wheel of Time geeks who are great company and love to dig in on any project.

[Eosin]

Fantastic resource Eosin. I really like the way that each nation was encapsulated into a single message with all the functional details required. I also like the conditions summary at the bottom about the state of the Ways and such. Those little bullet comments are very useful.

Thanks. There is a bucketload of research in that post fest.



My one and only objection to running in any pre-Cleansing of the Taint timeframe would be that male channelers are really not viable, long-term characters. I would also think that if a PC running a male channeler decided to declare himself the Dragon Reborn, their could be problems.

True, but there is evidence of male channalers being wearily welcomed during the trolloc wars even by the Aes Sedai. They will eventually go insane but once you start a game in WOT you are automatically playing in a Mirror World so why not leave the players guessing as part of the suspense of the game? Just don't tell anyone if the taint will be cleansed or the dragon will be reborn in your game until it happens or doesn't happen.

[Ndreare]

Back to a relatively "on-topic" question. What time period do you think would be the best to run a campaign in. As far as I see it you have several choices.

Age of Legends
Sounds very much like our own modern world with the exception of being much more of a Utopia than we have. Ter-Angrael seemed to provide the basis for clean energy and a technology that is at least what we are used to, if not higher. In Nynaeve's first battle with Moghedian, there was a mention of travelling to other planets.
I think a campaign in the Era would have to be after the Dark One's prison was breeched. The War of Power/Shadow would make a great campaign backdrop, though I have the feeling it may end up being like Military Fantasy.

The Breaking
Obviously a dangerous time for everybody. This would very much be a post-apoc type of setting. I can't imagine any sort of stable base for any communities.
We got to see what the Aiel went through with Rand's visit to Rhuidean, but what about the other people that eventually settled the remaining part of the world. Could be fun to play in, but I think a campaign would include a great deal of small conflicts.

The Covenent of Ten Nations
The world is starting to settle down and order is restored. The Ogier have just completed Tar Valon. Plenty of action and intrigue to be had.

Trolloc Wars
Another ideal time to role-play in. What more could you ask for? Massive amounts of Trollocs, Myrdraal and other Shadowspawn crunchiness. Of course, most things would tend to be large scale. Afterall, Manetheran was destroyed and Aridhol became Shadar Logoth during this time period.

Hawkwing's Empire
Another timeframe where intrigue and action can take a very important part. As another option, the journey of Luthair Pendraeg to Seancean might be a fun campaign to play with.

Between Hawkwing and Rand
A huge space of time that could encompass a lot of different styles of adventures. While there were many documented cases of momentous events, there is still enough leeway to do some pretty interesting stuff.

Interlude:
With the exception of the Age of Legends, you are going to have problems with having any male channelers. They are going to go insane, rot to death, and/or be hunted down and stilled or executed. While this would certainly be a feasible character concept, it might make for some mighty uncomfortable role-playing. These time periods are definately a call for non-channeling males.

The Dragon Reborn
This is the most likely time period to play in. Most details of the world setting are known. Male channelers may be able to hold off the effects of the Taint until Rand cleanses it.
Many new and old things are coming into their own in this time. Wolfbrothers and the Hornbound are being reborn. The old rules and expectations are breaking down. Almost anything can happen in a world nearing apocalyps.
The downside to this era would be running the campaign without crossing paths with the majority of the named characters. Also, Tarmon Gai'don would certainly be a campaign pauser, if not stopper.

The Fourth Age
Supposedly the world will be Broken again by the Dragon Reborn. What happens after that is open to speculation. There are a few references to scholarly work completed during the Fourth Age, but very little of the world condition has been revealed.
In some ways, this is an ideal setting to play in. There are no boundaries or expectations to live up to. The male half of the Source is clean and ready to use. You can do almost anything with the setting....
....Almost like creating a new setting unto itself. Moving into the Fourth Age would almost like not being in the WoT universe at all. Of course, references to the Third Age and the Dragon Reborn and the Second Breaking could be intertwined readily into the setting.

So there it is. Any thoughts?


It would have to be the "Fourth Age" (as called by some :) ) I also like the idea of playing in the anciant past. But I think things would not be as utopian as they make it out to be. Remember it was "An Age of Legends" and legends often founded on fact are never really fact. But it would be cool to have all that magic controlled and used against the players.... Uh I mean for the good of mankind.

[Nolgroth]

It would have to be the "Fourth Age" (as called by some :) ) I also like the idea of playing in the anciant past. But I think things would not be as utopian as they make it out to be. Remember it was "An Age of Legends" and legends often founded on fact are never really fact. But it would be cool to have all that magic controlled and used against the players.... Uh I mean for the good of mankind.

I would agree with you about the not-so-Utopia of the Age of Legends except that Mr. Jordan claimed that it was in The World of the Wheel of Time. He said that the concept of war was forgotten, there were no great diseases, blah blah blah. Now once the Bore was created, things would be a whole lot different. You have the Forsaken going over to the Shadow, Friends of the Dark thinking they can get in on the spoils and soon after, Trollocs and other Shadowspawn. The War of Power (Shadow) would be the best time in the Age of Legends to play. At least in my opinion. As Eosin pointed out, the campaign could be a Mirror World and the Age of Legends could have been different.

Now the Fourth Age would be one of the easiest to run in. I think that I would prefer that to the Third Age or Age of Legends. The absolute hardest part would be to build connections, in the players' minds, with the Wheel of Time setting. The best thing I can think of is to liberally tell tales, from a Gleeman's point of view perhaps, of the happenings during Tar'mon Gai'don and before. The trick would then be to start the exaggeration that occurs over time. Rand could be seven feet tall and wield a sword of Light. Perrin Goldeneyes could transform into a wolf and kill Trollocs by the thousands. Mat could never lose a battle and laughed in the face of Aes Sedai. Even the wondergirls could have their own tall tales, though the truth of their accomplishments will mostly be relegated to Tower lore.

So, the next question is whether or not the Asha'men join with the Aes Sedai and form a unified society of channelers. Do the whitecloaks still exist? What is the state of the nations. Does Andor still exist? Cairhein? Where are the Seanchan? Have they integrated with the remainder of the nations? Do they still seek conquest?

Obviously one or more of these questions may well be answered by the conclusion of the Wheel of Time setting. But who's going to wait six to eight years before running a WoT game? :)

My, but I can be long-winded. Now back to your regularly scheduled Board Discussion Forum.

[Nolgroth]

Thanks. There is a bucketload of research in that post fest.

How much of the information is research versus ad-lib? The details are awesome, but I don't remember quite that much breadth of knowledge being passed on through the books. An incredible depth on the topics covered, but not that much breadth.


True, but there is evidence of male channalers being wearily welcomed during the trolloc wars even by the Aes Sedai. They will eventually go insane but once you start a game in WOT you are automatically playing in a Mirror World so why not leave the players guessing as part of the suspense of the game? Just don't tell anyone if the taint will be cleansed or the dragon will be reborn in your game until it happens or doesn't happen.

Again true. I think that would likely be my second favorite time period to play in. I still think the Fourth Age offers many opportunities, without the worry of the Taint. If the effects of the Taint are something that you and your players want to explore, then the Trolloc Wars sounds like a really cool period to play in.

Hmmmn. How would one model the affects of the Taint in HERO terms? I have to think about that.

[Ndreare]

Obviously one or more of these questions may well be answered by the conclusion of the Wheel of Time setting. But who's going to wait six to eight years before running a WoT game? :)

My, but I can be long-winded. Now back to your regularly scheduled Board Discussion Forum.

Or even more likely is that Robert Jordan will never finish the books, and we will have his children or some fan come along and tell us what was meant to happen. He is an odler man and retirement and/or death often comes with age.

[Nolgroth]

Or even more likely is that Robert Jordan will never finish the books, and we will have his children or some fan come along and tell us what was meant to happen. He is an odler man and retirement and/or death often comes with age.

I'd rather not entertain that notion myself. We do have at least one more book due to come out in October. Knife of Dreams is something I have been looking forward to. When Path of Daggers came out, Mr. Jordan stated that he needed three more books to finish the series. Maybe he will stretch it out long enough to finish Wot.

[Primal]

I'd rather not entertain that notion myself. We do have at least one more book due to come out in October. Knife of Dreams is something I have been looking forward to. When Path of Daggers came out, Mr. Jordan stated that he needed three more books to finish the series. Maybe he will stretch it out long enough to finish Wot.
I recall Jordan also saying that he intends to 'keep writing until they put him in the grave', or something like that. I think he means keep writing in the WoT series... He may "need" three more books to finish the series, but I suspect he'll probably put out 6 or 7 more and then die without finishing it.. :p

Certainly a rich setting, though.. possibly a bit too rich for my gaming tastes. I would always be afraid that someone would have read (or imagined) some story or interview that they'd use to try to rules-lawyer/genre-lawyer things to death.. either that, or some players would have no clue at all about the setting, and all your clever schemes, homages, etc. fall flat because you're forgetting that they haven't read a single one of the ~10,000 pages of narrative out there.. ("Jeez Bill.. ok.. We'll let it go this week, but you better have read at least up until Rand cleanses the Taint by next week's game, or you'll be seeing flecks in front of your eyes!")

Congrats and my envy to those of you who can get a great game going in this setting!

[Ndreare]

Certainly a rich setting, though.. possibly a bit too rich for my gaming tastes. I would always be afraid that someone would have read (or imagined) some story or interview that they'd use to try to rules-lawyer/genre-lawyer things to death.. either that, or some players would have no clue at all about the setting, and all your clever schemes, homages, etc. fall flat because you're forgetting that they haven't read a single one of the ~10,000 pages of narrative out there.. ("Jeez Bill.. ok.. We'll let it go this week, but you better have read at least up until Rand cleanses the Taint by next week's game, or you'll be seeing flecks in front of your eyes!")

Congrats and my envy to those of you who can get a great game going in this setting!


Been there, I once wrote up over 40 pages of rules for my Wheel of Time Game only to have it fall flat when two players had read the series and the other four could care less. The game was fun for every one except those of us familiar with the setting. No one even cared what the titles incured. "You see a small band of Aeil, the look concerned over something and a couple are walking with their hands over their vails ready to pull them to face at any moment."
Player, "Aeil cowerds I bet whatever they are afraid of is just a ogrier or something"
Other players, "Crap!"

[Nolgroth]

I recall Jordan also saying that he intends to 'keep writing until they put him in the grave', or something like that. I think he means keep writing in the WoT series... He may "need" three more books to finish the series, but I suspect he'll probably put out 6 or 7 more and then die without finishing it.. :p

Yeah, but he also explicitly stated that he wants to punch out a new series immediately following this one. The only bits that I've read about it are that a sailor is marooned on a beach in some sort of Seanchan like society. He didn't give much more details and I'll be Lightblinded if I can even recall where I read it at.


Certainly a rich setting, though.. possibly a bit too rich for my gaming tastes. I would always be afraid that someone would have read (or imagined) some story or interview that they'd use to try to rules-lawyer/genre-lawyer things to death.. either that, or some players would have no clue at all about the setting, and all your clever schemes, homages, etc. fall flat because you're forgetting that they haven't read a single one of the ~10,000 pages of narrative out there.. ("Jeez Bill.. ok.. We'll let it go this week, but you better have read at least up until Rand cleanses the Taint by next week's game, or you'll be seeing flecks in front of your eyes!")

Congrats and my envy to those of you who can get a great game going in this setting!

I can totally understand your concerns there. My counter is that any game setting that a player doesn't know about has the same potential affect. This includes most homebrew game settings as well. I guess that I always took it upon myself to educate the players as we go. In many ways, my GMing style is much like EotW. The first characters to start out in the setting are ignorant and are "educated" by coincidental lore from those in the know. As the players become more familiar with the setting, so too do their alter-egos in the setting.

On the flip side, if the players have absolutely no drive to learn the new setting then it is destined for failure. Going into that subject is one that I have seen covered time and time again on the boards. I couldn't tell you how to keep every player motivated. I only know that it is the attempt to run an enjoyable game and have fun that matters. The dead weights will either fall into the fold or gradually stop attending.

As for rules/genre lawyers, well I suffer fools about as lightly as lead. I won't say that I rule the game with an iron fist, but I make sure that they all understand that the final arbiter is me. So far, I haven't had any players walk out because they thought me unfair. 'Course the glory days of my gaming career are a decade in the past. I really need to find a decent group to game with. :straight:

[Eosin]

How much of the information is research versus ad-lib?

The sections - research, course of the war, raw history, and various facts are all lifted strait from the text of various books. The kingdom write-ups use that information but also fill in as needed.

[Eosin]

Jordan has said "At least three more books" for the last 6 books but after COT he said "no more than 3 books." A subtle change but one that give me hope. :o

[James Gillen]

I recall Jordan also saying that he intends to 'keep writing until they put him in the grave', or something like that. I think he means keep writing in the WoT series...

That's actually in his "about the author" bio in the back of the books. I think the text is "he intends to keep writing until they nail shut his coffin." :D

JG

[Nolgroth]

Eosin,
Would you mind me using your Fade write-up on another website? For the most part I really like the write-up as is, but I just noticed that it doesn't have a Detect Channeling ability. I would have to add that onto the sheet.

Reference: http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27155

[Eosin]

Feel free, let me know where he gets posted. COTH (My website) has a very open policy about others using our stuff. We all draw from the same well so it seems rather bullish to get all whacked about someone else borrowing something. :rolleyes:

BTW - his mage sight is a lazy attempt at det channeling. Just rename it to "Det Channeling." I hate it when I get caught being lazy.

:drink:

[Nolgroth]

Feel free, let me know where he gets posted. COTH (My website) has a very open policy about others using our stuff. We all draw from the same well so it seems rather bullish to get all whacked about someone else borrowing something.

Thanks. I'm still working on getting the page to the point where it would be useful (as opposed to a bunch of empty space and a couple of links). Speaking of which, do you mind if I throw a link to Call of the Horn on my site?

BTW - his mage sight is a lazy attempt at det channeling. Just rename it to "Det Channeling." I hate it when I get caught being lazy.

Mage Sight is from Fantasy HERO? I believe that would work. I assume it is Detect Magic bought as a Sense. I think I would attune it to touch, since one of the fades in TDR referenced to an itch when the three girls were captured. I think I'll read up on Enhanced Senses a little before tweaking anything.

The ability seems to have a pretty wide range, but then the rules and limits to channeling were never spelled out in any concrete way. More's the frustration for that.

Well, thanks again. I'll keep posting as I get some progress done.

[Eosin]

Mage sight is basically a det magic at range - active rather than passive.

As to the links - feel free. You should also check out the stickied thread in the CotH forum for a pretty massive list of RPG links.

[Nolgroth]

Okay, I have been trying to put together different packages. This is what I have so far for Wolfbrother. I'm thinking that I may have to put some sort of bonus to PER roll with all senses, but I haven't convinced myself yet.

<table border="0" cellpadding="0"><tr><td align="right"><b>Cost </b></td><td><b>Power</b></td><td align="right"><b>END</b></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">10 </td><td><b><i>Keen Nose: </i></b>Tracking with Smell/Taste Group </td><td valign="top" align="right">0</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">3 </td><td><b><i>Wolf Ears: </i></b>Ultrasonic Perception (Hearing Group) </td><td valign="top" align="right">0</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">5 </td><td><b><i>Wolf Sight: </i></b>Nightvision </td><td valign="top" align="right">0</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">16 </td><td><b><i>Wolf Speech: </i></b>Mind Link , Specific Group of Minds - Wolves, No LOS Needed, Number of Minds (x4), Megascale (1" = 1 km; +1/4), Invisible Power Effects (Fully Invisible; +1/2) (52 Active Points); Feedback STUN Only (-1), Concentration, Must Concentrate throughout use of Constant Power (1/2 DCV; -1/2), Normal Range (-1/4), Reduced By Range (-1/4), Does Not Provide Mental Awareness (-1/4) </td><td valign="top" align="right">0</td></tr></table><b>Powers Cost:</b> 34

I want to add a potential berserk disadvantage to simulate when Perrin has to fight off the wolf-aspect when he talks to the wolves. I don't know, it may be better off as a Psych Lim, since an EGO roll seems more appropriate than a generic roll.

Also, I haven't worked up exactly how I want to do the Wolf Dream/Dreaming powers. Obviously a lot can happen in the Dream, including precognition, reality warping and moving across distances at high rates of speed. Also, what happens in the dream happens to the physical body. Hurm. Will have to think on that one and read up on some of the rules to boot.

Anyway, it is a beginning. :)

[Eosin]

I was gonna comment on the dream aspect but see that you got to that outside of the package.

Might I suggest that you consider using the "Astral Form" spell. That kinda fixes everything in one fell swoop. You don't need to buy a ton of powers since those are all bundled into the "Astral Form" or in this case Tel'rhiod. Then you can tack on a fairly cheap precog power and be done with it.

[Nolgroth]

I was gonna comment on the dream aspect but see that you got to that outside of the package.

Might I suggest that you consider using the "Astral Form" spell. That kinda fixes everything in one fell swoop. You don't need to buy a ton of powers since those are all bundled into the "Astral Form" or in this case Tel'rhiod. Then you can tack on a fairly cheap precog power and be done with it.


Astral Form? Will have to look through my stuff. Is it one of the sidebar powers or from one of the Fantasy HERO grimoires?

[Eosin]

Actually I think it is in Ultimate Mystic and The Mystic World. Professor Ka also has it in Vibora Bay and IIRC one of the first characters in Arcane Adversaries also has it..... It is sort of a standard, in as much as Hero has standards. There is a fairly detailed discussion of it in one of the books but I will have to look for it.

[Nolgroth]

Ah. I think I have the Ultimate Mystic around here somewhere. I remember buying it and reading it. It was the one HERO sourcebook that I actually felt was somehow less than it could have been. I haven't seen it in a month or more. I will look and if the Astral Form write-up isn't in there, I have a mechanic in mind.

Thanks for the heads up.

P.S. Found it. Page 54 of the Ultimate Mystic. Hmmmn. As the basic mechanic for getting to T'A'R, that works perfectly. For the more advanced things like Precog and the even the Dreamer abilities, it would require a little more, but the basic Astral Form works well.

Now I just have to do the deed and finish the Wolfbrother package. Thanks again.

[Nolgroth]

Well here is a little bit of a revision to the above. I added what I thought were reasonable powers to reflect the Wolf Dream. As Eosin suggested, I tried to stay within the bounds of Astral Form. I used the Alternative One with some minor modifications to fit the scale I am designing to (125/75).

I don't think that Perrin (the only Wolf Brother we have seen in the Dream) exhibited any powers beyond this. I am also going to use this as the base for a Dreamer package. Hypothetically, a Wolf Brother could learn more abilities, since many of them are not tied to the One Power.

Any feedback would be really appreciated. I will be posting additional material as I get it completed. I may have the Dreamer package up Real Soon Now (tm).

EDIT: Refer to post below for complete package.

[Eosin]

I would add a "No conscious control" to the precognition.

This is a really good work