Roleplaying 2028 - a look a quarter century forward. [Archive]

allen

Apr 4th, '03, 10:36 PM

Originally posted by Law Dog
Okay amateur futurists, time to put on your Caps of Thinking.

1st Question: It's 2028, do you still see yourself roleplaying (God willing, you're still alive at this time)? If I'm here, I'll be 60/61

Funny... this is kind of a recent joke in ye ol' gaming group... gamers hitting the retirement homes in 30 or so years...

It's going to be great. No work, no kids to disrupt the gaming schedule. None of this once a month gaming hogwash... gaming every day; four, six, heck maybe even eight hours a day... epic campaigns with a scope only dreamed about now... It's going to be like summer vacation back before we all had licenses and could drive, except it's not just three months -- it's for the rest of our lives. Cannot freakin' wait.

MarkusDark

Apr 4th, '03, 11:00 PM

I believe that in 2028, the table top game will probably be replaced by more interactive online items. I am not sure what or how, but the old paper and pen will probably go by the wayside.

Then again, if we suddenly to a reversal and actually become a social society again, I could be wrong.

TheEmerged

Apr 4th, '03, 11:02 PM

Originally posted by Law Dog
1st Question: It's 2028, do you still see yourself roleplaying (God willing, you're still alive at this time)? If I'm here, I'll be 60/61

I'll be 58. Frankly, RPGing comes almost as naturally to me as breathing; the only way I won't be gaming in 2028 is if I'm dead or elsewhere.

2nd Question: Which of the following games are still being produced? D&D, HERO, GURPS, World of Darkness, d20 (listed separately because maybe D&D & d20 could split off from each other. Any others you forsee still around? Or will the whole hobby bite it?

D&D will probably still be around, but probably in a very different form. It's the "name" property, which means it's the most vulnerable to being snatched up by an outside agency and changed to become "more hip" to the point of becoming unrecognizeable. Take a look at all the various permutations of Flash Gordon and Buck Rogers since their creation to see what I mean.

GURPS is almost certainly going to be a trivia question by then. Maybe my local area colors my opinion, but I know a lot of people that bought it and almost nobody that played it in more than a campaign or two.

WoD is a coin toss. You already see a lot of "that's so... last decade" happening with this system/world; it has not aged well and that's being nice. I personally suspect the Goths are going to be looked at in hindsight the way people look at hippies now -- "You're not so bad, in a what-the-bleep-is-wrong-with-you kind of way..." Having said that, nostalgia has been known to follow 20-30 year cycles -- it's just possible WoD will be the Brady Bunch of the future :eek: :eek:

d20? That's an interesting question. My money says no; the system is too prone to wild fluctuations when you actually play it. Not to insult the company behind it (as I play d20 almost as much as I play HERO these days -- a 3 HERO to 2 DnD session ratio), but sometimes I can't help but wonder just how much this game actually got tested by actual players with an actual GM in an actual campaign, and what the testing parameters were.

Having said that, there are an awful lot of people on the bandwagon right now -- but I live in Cincinnati, I know all about bandwagons. A lot can happen in fewer years than you might expect. My own personal experience is that the more people try to shoehorn d20 into other genres the weaker it looks.

HERO? That depends. DOJ is doing a good job with the system, and most of the people that use it are borderline rabid about it. A disturbing comparison I can't get out of my mind, though, is Star Trek. Not as well known or as popular/mainstream as other products, with a reputation for a lot of schlok that nonetheless works a lot better than the "trendy" stuff and often ends up being a lot more timeless (TOS has aged a lot better than TNG). The problem starts when it starts getting popular, and gets shoehorned into "mainstream" sensibilities instead of being itself. In the end it has its moment in the sun, but slowly kills itself with its own fame.

*shivers* Not the fate I'd wish for it, to be sure.

3rd Question: Gaming is still basically the same as when I started in 1977, will the gaming of 2028 be recognizable to us today?

As long as children play house and solider, Gaming won't change that much. Online RPG's haven't worked nearly as well as some people expected, and it hasn't been the technical side that has caused the problems. Any MMORPG veteran/refugee will tell you it's the other people that are screwing them up. I'm not going to say the problems are insurmountable, but they'll require far more resources (especially on the service side of the equation) than companies are currently willing to dish out.

Uncle Shecky

Apr 5th, '03, 08:19 AM

Originally posted by allen
Funny... this is kind of a recent joke in ye ol' gaming group... gamers hitting the retirement homes in 30 or so years...

It's going to be great. No work, no kids to disrupt the gaming schedule. None of this once a month gaming hogwash... gaming every day; four, six, heck maybe even eight hours a day... epic campaigns with a scope only dreamed about now... It's going to be like summer vacation back before we all had licenses and could drive, except it's not just three months -- it's for the rest of our lives. Cannot freakin' wait.

Amen to that. They have retirement communities built around golf courses now. Not my cup of tea, but a good idea to steal. I can see the brochure now: "The DOJ Home for Old Heroes, in lovely North Carolina ..."

In 2028, I suspect gamers will be using small, cheap, and instantly networkable computers to game face-to-face and online. I'd guess you'll see completely paperless gaming that has the feel of traditional RPGs, not video games. Imagine Herosphere in 25 years: you'll never roll dice again (except out of nostalgia).

Heck, I wouldn't be surprised to see all that in less than 10 years. By 2028 I want a little holographic combat simulator like the one Chewie and R2D2 played in Star Wars.

That and a jet pack.

Monolith

Apr 5th, '03, 08:49 AM

Originally posted by Law Dog
1st Question: It's 2028, do you still see yourself roleplaying (God willing, you're still alive at this time)? If I'm here, I'll be 60/61
Yes, gaming is a big part of my life. By 2028, my second hobby, jogging, will probably not be part of my life. I'll be into my 60s and will probably have arthritis in my knees from all the running on hard roads over the years. :)

2nd Question: Which of the following games are still being produced? D&D, HERO, GURPS, World of Darkness, d20 (listed separately because maybe D&D & d20 could split off from each other. Any others you forsee still around? Or will the whole hobby bite it?
D&D is owned by a corporation. Unless Hasbro folds shop, D&D will always be around in one form or another.

Hero has a come and go history. My guess is that as Steve and Darren's lives become more complicated with spouses and children they will want to remove themselves from the rat-race, and as such will sell Hero Games to one of us, who will inturn completely screw it up, and thus it will be gone. :)

GURPS will fall by the wayside as Steve Jackson gets out of the industry. Like Gary Gygax, Steve Jackson will eventually lose everything due to poor accounting.

White Wolf will be the major gaming company of the future. Goth material will become more popular over time, and White Wolf already seems to have the corner on the market.

3rd Question: Gaming is still basically the same as when I started in 1977, will the gaming of 2028 be recognizable to us today?
I think gaming will be more computerized. We will all have "gaming tables" like those we saw in Star Wars, where we see the hologram characters moving around the battlefield and doing the actions we dictate. We will not have to be together to do the gaming, each person can stay at home and look at everyone else around the "gaming table," without having to actually be in the same room with them. Thus Play-By-Cyber games rather than table top games will be the norm.

Peregrine

Apr 5th, '03, 09:42 AM

Originally posted by Monolith
GURPS will fall by the wayside as Steve Jackson gets out of the industry. Like Gary Gygax, Steve Jackson will eventually lose everything due to poor accounting.

This almost happened - the 'failing due to bad accounting' part. SJG had a bit of a rough run here within the last 18 months due to their previous CFO basically not doing their job properly. They didn't know how much money they were or were not making. The effort required to reconcile the books and get things back under control caused them to slow their release schedule. Some observers might say that they still haven't completely recovered, as they continue to have uncharacteristic (for them) schedule slippage.

Thirdbase

Apr 5th, '03, 10:01 AM

Originally posted by Uncle Shecky
Amen to that. They have retirement communities built around golf courses now. Not my cup of tea, but a good idea to steal. I can see the brochure now: "The DOJ Home for Old Heroes, in lovely North Carolina ..."

In 2028, I suspect gamers will be using small, cheap, and instantly networkable computers to game face-to-face and online. I'd guess you'll see completely paperless gaming that has the feel of traditional RPGs, not video games. Imagine Herosphere in 25 years: you'll never roll dice again (except out of nostalgia).

Heck, I wouldn't be surprised to see all that in less than 10 years. By 2028 I want a little holographic combat simulator like the one Chewie and R2D2 played in Star Wars.

That and a jet pack.

Where's my flying car, we were promised flying cars.

Imagine networked computers with excellent real time video and audio feeds, plus super high res graphics of what your character is doing. Then there will be us sitting around a table still using dice and paper.

Monolith

Apr 5th, '03, 10:07 AM

Originally posted by Thirdbase
Where's my flying car, we were promised flying cars.
People can barely seem to drive in a two-dimensional enviroment without having constant accidents. I would not even want to think about how many accidents there would be if people had to think in a three-dimensional enviroment. :)

Mark Taylor

Apr 5th, '03, 10:41 AM

1. I'll be 56, and I'll still be playing

2. GURPS has a huge user base already and HERO looks like taking off big time; neither of them have to rely an any particular genre or background, so they have the potential 'roll with the punches' as long as they keep releasing supplements that keep ahead of what's popular at the time.

World of Darkness could survive as long as it continues to develop and move with the times. I think if it stagnates it will die.

The survival of d20 and D&D may depend on the survival of WotC. Hasbro don't care about roleplaying one way or the other. If WotC go down, they may hang onto those properties, license them, sell them, forget about them and leave them to rot... who can tell?

Having said that, the appeal of dungeons and monster-bashing is timeless, so there will always be something around to fill that niche.

3. I agree that small handheld computers will probably revolutionise table-top gaming. After all we could basically do all that now, with the current crop of PDAs, if the technology was just a little cheaper, and the software available. It's only a matter of time before it'll be not only feasible, but profitable to do this. I like rolling dice though - little electronic 'dice mats' that we roll our dice on, networked to our PDAs so they can automatically log our dice rolls would be extremely cool.

Mutant for Hire

Apr 5th, '03, 11:09 AM

As with so many others, I think that computers are going to play an important part, though in two different areas. There are going to be the descendants of Neverwinter Nights (NWN), where GMs create virtual worlds for their players, accepting various limitations in return for a more visual experience. The main limitation is that most GMs aren't great artists and there's a lot of work in creating specific areas. Even so, I expect this is going to be the dominant form of RPGs for a lot of people.

And then there's going to be the minority crowd that prefers to use words and imagination instead. Even so, I see computers taking over much of the bookkeeping and handling of number crunching for the GM. The first tools are strictly going to be GM tools only, but in time there will be client programs that allow players to access the GM 'server'. To prevent cheating, odds are that all numbers will be stored and modified on the GM's server and players will just feed requests for information and action to it. This software will have two modes. Face to face, with players optionally getting to roll dice, and chatroom style.

There's going to be a longer term impact on game mechanics as well, that's really going to benefit the more complex systems such as HERO. Things like defining players in terms of what they can do and then letting programs grind out the numbers on the back-end. Players can simply say what their character can be like and the programs will work out a play-balanced member, even start analyzing characters for strengths and weaknesses. That's going to be a godsend for GMs grinding out NPCs.

In the beginning, these programs will be proprietary, but I see open source making its inroads here. Sooner or later someone is going to come up with an open source program where the characteristics and game mechanics are encoded in some high level scripting langauge, allowing for easy modification of the house rules, not to mention allowing just about any system to be enscripted and so automated.

That's going to have a huge impact on the RPG industry. In the end, selling rulebooks is going to become impossible due to the copies of mechanics floating around the Net. Gaming companies will adapt and survive by a "give away the razors, sell the blades" sort of deal. The basic mechanics will be given away free and ala Digial Hero, sourcebooks are going to be sold over the Net based on those mechanics.

Gaming companies will survive because a lot of players would rather let someone else create source material for them to tweak, and do things like historical research. They can also sell documentation on how to create characters and run games, things that the more "freeware" mechanics systems won't tend to do. Subscriptions to Net-based zines may form a significant chunk of revenue.

Captain Obvious

Apr 5th, '03, 07:41 PM

Originally posted by Uncle Shecky
"The DOJ Home for Old Heroes, in lovely North Carolina ..."
.

Sign me up!

Personally, I think pen and paper games will be around for a long long time. It's just a lot easier to scratch little notes in the margin of your character sheet than it is to maintain a notes.txt file. People seem to like shuffling pages around too. And don't forget the sheer number of complaints on the old boards about the ebook format...

Cosmic Man

Apr 5th, '03, 11:36 PM

Somehow, no matter how good the online game, and no matter how fast people can type, nothing will ever beat sitting around a table, bouncing dice, and keeping track on papers covered with pencil-marks.

At least, that's my opinion.

Sign me up for the old gamers home!

You say to your grandchild, "If that home is d20 instead of Hero, I'm going to have a fit!"
Your grandchild says to you, "Don't worry Grandpa, it's Hero. Steve Long himself is there."

Jhamin

Apr 6th, '03, 01:56 AM

Originally posted by Cosmic Man
Somehow, no matter how good the online game, and no matter how fast people can type, nothing will ever beat sitting around a table, bouncing dice, and keeping track on papers covered with pencil-marks.

At least, that's my opinion.

And Mine.

Computers will become more convenient and easier, but they will still be computers. Remember the paperless office? Or the end of books?

At the end of the day, the screen in front of us does not substitue for actual human experience. If it did nobody would ever want to meet their online friends in person.

Computers will play a roll, but in 2028 people will still gather and roll dice with their friends.

jtelson

Apr 6th, '03, 04:33 AM

I've been playing for 23 years and I expect to be playign for the next 25 so in 2028 I still expect to be at it.

As to game systems - GURPS and WoD have remained the least changed from a systmes point of view since their creation - both systems are playable and have their own appeal and so I think they will be the least changed in 25 years.
D&D will still be around but not likely in the d20 format.
The d20 system itself when divorced from D&D has a lot going for it - When designing D&D there were a lot of design decisions made intentionally to appease older players at the expence of creatign the best system they could. You can see the improvements in d20 Modern. Assuming they continue to refine the system I can see it still around in 25 years.
The Hero system has changed considerably since it's initial release - Each change for the better (IMO) and closer to the potential that I think we all saw when we first picked up a copy of Champions way back when. The system has also become more cumbersome with every iteration. The learning curve for play is steep and that's putting it mildly - Computerization will be Hero's best friend - we already see it with character design software - It has he ability to turn one of Hero's biggest flaws into an asset. It's complicated but there's software to make it easy and it ties to this software for combat and so on and so forth. So assuming that pencil and paper gaming trends towards keyboard and monitor gaming or maybe pda to pda gaming, I can easily see Hero around in 25 years. Failing that I think we might find ourselves saying to our children -"When I was a Kid I only had paper and a calculator and it took me 5 hours to build a character - and about 6 monthes for a fight sequence"

The Mad GM

Apr 6th, '03, 07:44 AM

I agree that sitting around a table with friends will probably not be replaced in my lifetime, unless threats of virulent plagues keeps everyone locked in their own duct-taped home. Only truly immersive VR could come close, and it is at least decades away. If a computer can somehow read our facial expressions and map them onto a CG elf in real time while similarly manipulating our speech, then MMORPG might stand a chance of replacing tabletop as an actual roleplaying experience. But until then, reality has much better graphics, and no lag.

However,even sitting around a tabletop, the tools will almost certainly change. The table may become a sculptable plasma screen or something similar - or we will have stereoscopic viewers in our contact lenses that allow us to see a CG diorama of our characters from a god-like perspective. I think dice will be optional, or only used for roleplaying (Does my character recognize the king's steward behind that fake mustache?). Dice are more of a fetish now, as it is.

At that point, the computer is playing a combat simulator, and we are doing the roleplaying around it. Roleplaying may even be divorced from combat in it's general audience, though that may be from a completely different direction - interactive improv community theater, or some such. Sort of like LARPing, without the leather. The main problem with LARPs seem to be that to do it well, you need a big group, but a big group always factionalizes, and ultimately breaks apart. Technology could bridge that gap - my group around it's table might interact with another group around another table on a common virtual gaming area. Some of my friends do this with home networks while on Asheron's Call, for instance. But even so, they are all staring at different screens in the same room, not each other.

Would specific companies or systems be around? Only if they can provide meaningful structure and content for whatever the future of gaming holds.

I'll be 62, and I probably won't be retiring for another twenty years because social security went banckrupt around 2018. I will definately be wanting to kill something, so for my sake, RPGs better still be around.

TheEmerged

Apr 6th, '03, 09:29 PM

Just a question, not an attack.

I'm curious: those of you that believe technology is going to have a major impact on gaming -- have you actually played one of the MMORPG's like EverQuest, or done a multiplayer adventure in NWN? Because my experience with them is one of the reasons I'm so dubious thereof.

Again, not an attack, I'm just curious.

Law Dog

Apr 6th, '03, 10:12 PM

Mutant for Hire

Apr 7th, '03, 05:54 AM

Originally posted by Law Dog

I was curious when I created this topic what the general consensus would be on the effect of furture technology on RPG's. I'm thinking next to none. Look at how little of an impact technology has directly effected our games. Sure, it's made it easier for the GM to make up handouts and such, but it still basically the same scene it was in the 70's.

The technology isn't quite there yet. Give it time. We need a lot more invasive and casual computing to really make it happen.

As for the person who used MMORPG as the baseline, there is a huge difference between that sort of game and a private session where it is strictly invite only with people you know. And I deliberately separated 'text-based' RPG experiences (delivered orally by a GM) from the NWN experience. I deliberately separated those cases from the experience that the rest of us have.

MUDs are moving along in the right direction. They lack certain elements that make them work however. And a lot of people want the F2F experience as well. That requires cheap portable wireless computing to really make it work. As I said, the technology isn't there yet.

BlackSword

Apr 7th, '03, 07:02 AM

I enjoy playing NWN nights at times, but I have recently become burnt out on the game. It was enjoyable to play and meet people, but it did lack the role-playing experience most of the time. When conversations are scripted its difficult to fluster the inn-keeper with questions when you can only ask GM approved questions. I played Ultima Online for a while and quit because I got sick of spending hours on end trying to raise my strength by one point or learn how to make a horse-shoe.

I am interested in the 'hero' aspect of games, not the mundane blacksmith aspect of games in a fantasy setting. Maybe that makes me a bad role-player, but my idea of role-playing is to go beyond something I can do in real life and be something that requires more imagination. When was the last time in a role-playing game the GM asked what your action was and you said you sat a desk for eight hours staring at a document with more typoes then words. Instead your driving a car down a freeway trying to run a bad guy off the road (which I hope most people don't do in real life).

I don't believe that the computer will replace the social interaction. Its more fun to be in a room full of people you enjoy being with as opposed to staring at a CRT or LCD for 10 hours straight (we tend to have long gaming sessions). Granted networked games solve two problems, the smelly gamer and if the game drags you can just put a photo of yourself up in front of the camera and catch a few quick Z's.

Perhaps computers will allow more rules-instensive combat. I agree with the previous post that most combat mechanics will taken care of by a computer, while the role-playing takes place by the gamers. My brother was describing a rules intensive system and said he was planning on writing a spreadsheet which would enable him to simplify the calculations. I joked he could write the entire adventure into a macro. Picture this: A gm sits at the table, opens up his laptop and lets it boot up. A few quick keystrokes he looks up and says, "Bill, Jim, Jill, you all died. Bob, Beth you survived the fight with the evil overload and get 2500 xp. Good game all, same time next week?"

I think computers will aid in visualazation and the ability to organize complex campaigns. Instead of having several hundred sheets of paper describing the campaign world/universe, it will all be on a CD-ROM.

--
Dan Berg

Mark Taylor

Apr 7th, '03, 09:47 AM

Originally posted by TheEmerged
Just a question, not an attack.

I'm curious: those of you that believe technology is going to have a major impact on gaming -- have you actually played one of the MMORPG's like EverQuest, or done a multiplayer adventure in NWN? Because my experience with them is one of the reasons I'm so dubious thereof.

Again, not an attack, I'm just curious.

I've played multiplayer NWN online, but since it was a private session and the players consited mostly of my tabletop gaming group, we were able to run things pretty much how we liked... although as BlackSword commented the scripted nature of conversations with NPC means that it just doesn't come close to 'real' roleplaying, where players' interaction with NPCs have a real impact on the game and can even send it in wholly unexpected directions for both the players and the GM.

I don't think that MMORPGs are gonna replace tabletop gaming at all, just that PDAs or similar technology can replace stuff like character sheets and big fat rulebooks. If I'm GMing a session at home, I don't mind needing a dozen Big Fat Books and a folder stuffed full of chracter sheets, maps and notes; but if I go to my local gaming club to run a session it would be nice for my setup to be a bit more portable - and there is nothing my dozen Big Fat Books and stuffed folder can do that a decent PDA can't. If my players have PDAs too, wirelessly networked to mine with compatible 'game management' software, it's really going to take the gruntwork out of stuff like combat resolution and inventory management.

The only thing I would lack is my figures... and I have around 400+ cardboard figures which if I store them in collapsed form, I can fit around 350 into a rather small plastic sandwitch box. What I'm saying I guess is that I'd rather carry around one PDA and one small plastic box than the standard assortment of books, folders and figures... roll on portable gaming!

zornwil

Apr 7th, '03, 02:01 PM

Originally posted by Law Dog
Okay amateur futurists, time to put on your Caps of Thinking.

1st Question: It's 2028, do you still see yourself roleplaying (God willing, you're still alive at this time)? If I'm here, I'll be 60/61

2nd Question: Which of the following games are still being produced? D&D, HERO, GURPS, World of Darkness, d20 (listed separately because maybe D&D & d20 could split off from each other. Any others you forsee still around? Or will the whole hobby bite it?

3rd Question: Gaming is still basically the same as when I started in 1977, will the gaming of 2028 be recognizable to us today?

1, 2028, at 65, I would like to still be gaming.

2, I suspect HERO, GURPS, and World of Darkness won't be actively produced beyond a hobbyist/amateur basis, maybe with online PDFs and such, sort of like how HERO threatened to be before DOJ pickedit up, but D&D certainly will be. d20 seems a toss-up to me, probably yes as a brand but maybe none of the games we see today.

3, I tihnk it'll start to show some differences by 2028 but I think not dramatic yet. You'll see the first workable real roleplaying computer net interfaces, not just Everquest type games but interfaces that actually work for social play. But I think it will be somehow different than I expect (that's how tech goes) and whether popular or not it'll be in a first generation. Just my guess. I think the technology to do much more will be readily available, just not all adapted to role-playing.

Cosmic Man

Apr 7th, '03, 02:17 PM

Celtic Cowboy

Apr 7th, '03, 02:59 PM

1st Question: It's 2028, do you still see yourself roleplaying (God willing, you're still alive at this time)?

WIll be 65 in 2028, assuming I'm still around I'm sure I'll be gaming on some level.

2nd Question: Which of the following games are still being produced? D&D, HERO, GURPS, World of Darkness, d20

The big boys like D&D will still be around, probably not d20, but something else and probably owned by someone else.

If HERO is still around maybe by then I'll convince my group to give it a try. LOL

Koshka

Apr 7th, '03, 08:11 PM

I'll be 66 in 2028. One of my great-grandmothers made it past 100, so I think I've got a reasonable chance to still be around, and if I am I'll probably be gaming.

I'm not so sure about computers replacing paper and pencil, though. I will bow to the expertise of someone who actually owns a PDA if this is wrong, but those seem like dinky little screens. Unless someone can come up with a way to enlarge it, we senior citizen gamers are going to have eyestrain trying to read our character sheets*. Maybe the younger gamers will put everything on their PDAs, but paper will still be simpler.

( *Says the person who's gamed with a vision-impaired person -- all the handouts had to be reprinted in larger font for her.)

Super Squirrel

Apr 7th, '03, 09:13 PM

I have already pre-ordered my copy of Cyborg: the Assimilation which is coming out in 2029.

Law Dog

Apr 8th, '03, 12:11 AM

Originally posted by Super Squirrel
I have already pre-ordered my copy of Cyborg: the Assimilation which is coming out in 2029.

I heard that got bad reviews. Personally, I'll be running Gamma World, 9th edition. You know, that kitsch factor will be kicking in (Probably not too far from really happening considering, what is that? 6th edition? Coming out this summer.).

Lets see
B/W 1st
Red 2nd
Colored Charts 3rd
Pink book 4th
Alternity version 5th

Did I miss any?

Thirdbase

Apr 8th, '03, 01:46 AM

Originally posted by Super Squirrel
I have already pre-ordered my copy of Cyborg: the Assimilation which is coming out in 2029.

Jan 3, 2028 I will be starting a new Twilight 2000 campaign, all are invited.

ShadowRaptor

Apr 8th, '03, 11:23 PM

I dunno, I think it really depends on if we will be here at all. I mean, if we end up all dead, then there won't be any gaming, but that would just bite cuz we need gaming, so we therefore will have to live past any wars...

so, if we are still around, hmmm...I would be 52 yrs old, balding, married, and still gaming... who cares what kind of technology we will have, as long as we have gaming that's all that matters, right?

I also will be playing in Gamma World 9th edition, and also HERO 7 or 8th editions.

SuperPheemy

Apr 9th, '03, 09:26 AM

In 2028, I'll still be playing with my grandkids. GrandpaPheemy will break out his well-worn and loved old books then, down in the basement he'll sit down with his gandchildren and lead them into an imaginary world full of adventure...

"Now Sally, you know that you can't run an Elemental control through your primary characteristics. Billy! I'm shocked! You put back Uncle Darren's Heroman mask this instant, we're not LARPing this evening. I'm sorry Stevie, but you're just going to have to wait until Phase 9 to act, I warned you about taking a SPD 3 character in a superhero game. It's called a miniature, Pumpkin. That's how we used to keep track of our characters before Holoimaging Tables. Why that little fig is older than your Mom."

Aaah, the thoughts of lazy summer evenings...

buzz

Apr 11th, '03, 02:59 PM

Originally posted by TheEmerged d20? That's an interesting question. My money says no; the system is too prone to wild fluctuations when you actually play it. Not to insult the company behind it (as I play d20 almost as much as I play HERO these days -- a 3 HERO to 2 DnD session ratio), but sometimes I can't help but wonder just how much this game actually got tested by actual players with an actual GM in an actual campaign, and what the testing parameters were.

I find this an interesting comment considering that D&D3e/d20 is probably one of the most extensively play-tested RPGs, prior to its initial release, in the history of the hobby. Not to mention getting hammered on day-to-day by more players than any other RPG in existence.

Hey, I'm a d20 fanboy; sue me. :)

Anyway, I think that d20's existence in 2028 is pretty probable, if simply for the fact that d20 is open-source and free. WotC can't "take it back". Even if D&D was to vanish as a brand (not likely), d20 can still be used by anyone as a basis for an RPG. And if present "network externalities" continue, there's a lot of incentive for companies to continue to use it. Of all the games mentioned, D&D/d20 is my vote for most likely to still be around; it's an obvious choice.

As for the other systems... I'd think it would depend on popularity, in some way. WW is the next-biggest fish in the RPG pond, so I thnk its odds are good. The smaller systems should hopefully survive, assuming their owners continue to respond to the needs of their markets and put out innovative products.

For this reason alone, I feel the continued existence of GURPS is doubtful. The (yet another) faux GURPS 4e blurb they ran on April Fool's Day... it's jut not funny anymore.

Anyway, I also generally agree about the increased role of computers in future RPGs. I could see an RPG being developed that, instead of using a dice-based resolution mechanic, used some software-based mechanism. I.e., some method complicated enough that doing it by hand would be tedious, but could be accomplished in nanoseconds by a PC.

Big Willy

Apr 24th, '03, 10:43 AM

Hmm...

1) I hardly get to roleplay now, and I'm trying to steer my creative juices in more profitable directions, so with any luck by 2028 I'll be comfortably esconsed in comics (providing they still exist), fine art, prose fiction or screenwriting. But if I have the spare time and ideas, and people to play with, I'll probably still be up for it, so sign me up for the retirement home round about 2040.

2) The D&D brand will almost certainly survive in some form, and will likely remain the non-gamer's generic term for the hobby. White Wolf have successfully diversified into fantasy publishing, so the company will probably still be around, but I think the World of Darkness meta-campaign will have come to a natural end and been rebooted by about 2020. Most of the other games I foresee having troubled times, commercially: I don't doubt there will continue to be stuff produced for them as a labour of love, or that they'll continue to thrive on the Web, but they're not going to be cash cows and the publishers will inevitably be squeezed out of the picture unless they can find some other source of revenue.

3) I think gaming in 2048 will be basically recognisable. Use of computers and multimedia will increase, but plenty of GMs already run their games from laptops rather than A4 writing pads. Online gaming and virtual reality will become ever more sophisticated, but better graphics and interaction won't change the essential character of it. What may happen is that the technology will filter down as it becomes obsolete, so that while the big MMORPGS evolve into full-immersion VR, small groups and individuals will be able to run their own custom campaigns through a 2003-vintage EverQuest engine served out of someone's back bedroom. But even at that, there'll always be a minority of old farts sitting around their coffee tables rolling dice and looking at bits of paper, just as there will still be Napoleonic miniature wargames and Monopoly.

TheEmerged

Apr 24th, '03, 02:41 PM

Originally posted by buzz
I find this an interesting comment considering that D&D3e/d20 is probably one of the most extensively play-tested RPGs, prior to its initial release, in the history of the hobby. Not to mention getting hammered on day-to-day by more players than any other RPG in existence.

Hey, I'm a d20 fanboy; sue me. :)

Don't get me wrong, as I said I play it quite a bit. But I have to say the more I play it the more I wonder about the playtesting. I've seen some particularly wildly-off-based comments by the people (at the risk of naming names, Bruce Cordell and Mark Jindra in particular have made some whoppers, especially in relation to the psionic rules) that lead me to consider three conclusions:

1> TSR/WotC/Hasbro/Whatever is lying out their butts about the quantity of stress testing, or the degree to which they creditted it,
2> TSR/yada yada did perform quantity testing, but had horrible testing methods, specifically in the area of starting a character at low level and running that same character through an extended campaign, and/or
3> TSR/yada yada engages in borderline Thought Police policies in relation to what the people working for them can say publicly (applies more to Mark than Bruce).

I'd like to believe it's #2 with a leavening of #3 (again, especially in Mark Jindra's case), but sometimes I can't help but wonder about #1. I've seen way too many class balance arguments that bring up duels (a pointless model that has no bearing on the way DnD is actually played), for example.

It's a fun system to play, again please don't take me wrong. But I can't ignore the flaws, and it's my nature to wonder whenever flaws aren't being dealt with.

buzz

Apr 24th, '03, 02:54 PM

Originally posted by TheEmerged
It's a fun system to play, again please don't take me wrong. But I can't ignore the flaws, and it's my nature to wonder whenever flaws aren't being dealt with.

I'm curious what you felt the flaws were, but I don't want to derail the thread. As for me, I can be perfectly objective, but the simple fact is I don't see anything egregious with d20. It's not perfect (though better than most), but what system is?

And it still has a much better chance of being around in 2028 than just about any other RPG, HERO included.

Intrope

Apr 24th, '03, 03:45 PM

On the subject of the ultimate gaming table: it's probably possible to build it now, it'd just cost several grand. You'd need three main things:

A largish projection TV (you'd lay it on it's back)
A whiteboard digitizer that attaches to normal whiteboards (in other words, one that is not a giant Wacom tablet)
A computer that has a TV out.

You'd also probably want to cover the TV screen with a hard, clear sheet of something (glass, plexiglass, acrylic, whatever).

The software wouldn't need to be very complex.

It'd be pretty crude, but it should be doable. I expect that huge flat panels with integrated digitizers (like Tablet PCs, but much bigger) will probably start materializing for business conferencing about 5 years from now (Flat Panel tech is finally taking off).

TheEmerged

Apr 24th, '03, 04:52 PM

buzz -- can we take a raincheck on that until 3.5 comes out? It's my understanding they address at least some of my concerns (multiclassing viability in particular) on the non-psionic end -- that means that i could fairly only talk about the psionic end, and that would be a major tangent :D

buzz

Apr 24th, '03, 08:55 PM

Originally posted by TheEmerged
buzz -- can we take a raincheck on that until 3.5 comes out? It's my understanding they address at least some of my concerns (multiclassing viability in particular) on the non-psionic end -- that means that i could fairly only talk about the psionic end, and that would be a major tangent :D

No problemo. And if a good portion of your dissatisfaction with d20 comes from Psionics, I have more sympathy. I have a feeling they'll get a big overhaul as well.

Mark Taylor

Apr 25th, '03, 12:00 PM

Originally posted by TheEmerged
2> TSR/yada yada did perform quantity testing, but had horrible testing methods, specifically in the area of starting a character at low level and running that same character through an extended campaign, and/or

The playtesters weren't allowed to test the whole system all at once, only parts of it. Different playtest groups were given different parts to look at. The developers didn't want anybody (including playtesters) too see the whole system prior to it's release. Yes, I would call this call this a horrible testing method.

buzz

Apr 25th, '03, 12:13 PM

Originally posted by Realms of Chaos
The playtesters weren't allowed to test the whole system all at once, only parts of it. Different playtest groups were given different parts to look at. The developers didn't want anybody (including playtesters) too see the whole system prior to it's release. Yes, I would call this call this a horrible testing method.

Did you hear this from a playtester? Just curious.

Mark Taylor

Apr 25th, '03, 12:22 PM

Originally posted by buzz
Did you hear this from a playtester? Just curious.

Yup.

buzz

Apr 25th, '03, 01:44 PM

Originally posted by Realms of Chaos
Yup.

FWIW, I asked about this over at ENWorld. The few posts so far contradict you, but we'll see how it develops.

Topic at ENWorld (http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=859098#post859098)

Mark Taylor

Apr 25th, '03, 02:56 PM

Originally posted by buzz
FWIW, I asked about this over at ENWorld. The few posts so far contradict you, but we'll see how it develops.

I admit it's possible I was misinformed, as the playtester in question is not somebody I know well enough to actually vouch for. Still, since he is a d20 fan, I didn't see any reason he would want to make it up.

buzz

Apr 25th, '03, 05:13 PM

Originally posted by Realms of Chaos
I admit it's possible I was misinformed, as the playtester in question is not somebody I know well enough to actually vouch for. Still, since he is a d20 fan, I didn't see any reason he would want to make it up.

Understood. I'm not trying to call anyone a liar; I just tend to be suspicious of "friend of a friend" info I hear... especially when it appears on messageboards. :)

TheEmerged

Apr 25th, '03, 07:52 PM

I've heard it both ways myself. Maybe they only allowed certain playtesters access to the whole system?

buzz

Apr 26th, '03, 07:43 AM

Originally posted by TheEmerged
I've heard it both ways myself. Maybe they only allowed certain playtesters access to the whole system?

I could see that. Or that the process changed over the course of the playtesting.

Smeazel

May 7th, '03, 12:45 AM

Heh... I have a novel I'm working on entitled Only a Game (and by "working on" I mean I have a draft finished but it needs some fairly extensive rewrites in places, and I haven't managed to bring myself to do the rewrites yet) that has a role-playing game of the future as a central plot element. The role-playing game in the story (called "Iau") is essentially a MMORPG, but fully VR; you for all practical purposes experience the game as if you are your character. Of course, the novel is set quite a bit farther in the future than 2028... ;) (Also, there's no mention in the novel of Iau having replaced ordinary pencil-and-paper role-playing. I don't think it would, though, because (a) unlike Iau, pencil-and-paper games are free (well, yeah, the sourcebooks and supplies cost money, but once you've got them you don't have to pay for the game itself), and (b) Iau is limited to a single setting and overarching campaign, whereas with pencil-and-paper gaming you could easily have a quick one-shot in whatever setting you like.)

I've really got to get around to finishing the rewrites on that novel and trying to get it published...