How would you take out BATMAN?

[Col. Orange]

Okay, we're playing in a, hmm, ugly Champions game. By ugly I mean a dark, Vertigo or MAX rather than DC or Marvel comic.

My guy, Martin Lockheed, is a fun loving cross between the Punisher and the Crow with a pair of Desert Eagles (AP rounds in one, Plastic rounds (EB rather than RKA) in the other). 350pts and 20 something Hero Bonus.

Another player is a slightly occult Batman: Hates guns, won't kill, utility belt, access to government/police computers etc. 350pts and shed loads of experience.

Of course, the two haven't gotten on.
My "war on crime"/crusade against those who murdered me has seen me in jail but a hot shot lawyer got me off. Now Occult-Batman wants me destroyed (I'm already dead, so this is not murder). He's tried twice but being dead, I'm pretty hard to kill - but it's just a matter of time.

He's hunting me, I have no real way of finding him. So guy's, how DO you take out Batman?

[Trebuchet]

Are you sure you're not really the Joker? :D

I would wire an abandoned warehouse with lots of explosives, broadcast a fake sighting report on the police radio, wait until occult-batman arrives to search said warehouse, and blow it.

[death tribble]

Take Batman out ?

Perhaps a dinner date or a trip to the cinema...

Oh, sorry ! You meant Take Out.
My bad.

[Blue]

I'd suggest a nice death trap, followed by minutes of taunting, giving him the details of your plan, and then leaving before you actually see him dead. That's a surefire formula!

[Klytus]

Take full advantage of your own "unkillability". Simply carry a bomb of some kind with lots of shrapanel (an Armor Piercing Explosion RKA) at all time. When "Batman" comes after you again, give him a big bear-hug and detonate the bomb. You'll live... er... survive, and if he doesn't die, he should be weak enough for finishing the job to be cake. And if he b[i]is[/b] tough enough to walk away from that kind of punishment, add some posion to the shrapnel or something.

[Amnesia]

How to Kill the Batman...

You know this is the question that all of DC's villan's (esp. that Bat's) repeatedly ask themselves and anyone crazy enough to be listening.

My solution requires a Major Leage Telepath (Think Psylocke - but with out the over fondness for admiring ones own handy-work). Then zap the bat with the voodoo you kin do.

Form what I understand of Batman he doesn't have any natural psionic defenses, but can create a gadget to help him in that aspect (if he hasn't done so already). So what you will need to do is apply your telepath subtly and slowly. Find out who the Bat is (secret id), there are people that know, enter your telepath to root out said info. Once info is at hand, ie you know the Bats secret id, insuante Telepath into secret id's life, and slowly apply the pressure by disrupting the Bats secret id life (nice little distraction) and then whne he's really sufferring strain, Telepath hits him with every thing they got hopefully causing enough cerebral damage to kill or vegetate the Bat in secret id self, and whats more there will be no cause for alarm. Cause he just had a stroke whilst under all that pressure, he could cope, and thats what the coroner will say, willingly or unwilling (enter Telepath again).

However this does require a few months work, and the key is slow and steady with the Telepath, insiduous attacks work best when they remain so.

Well thats my 2 pence worth... say do I get change ?

[lemming]

Squash him with a Giant Penny

[jtelson]

The real danger of dealing with Batman is that he plans. He would likely be prepared for an exploding warehouse or a chest bomb (Although with a Batman knockoff that one's probably a good way to go). So you need to operate outside the box.
Assume he knows how your character thinks - so don't do take what you consider your best course of action - take number 2 or 3 down on the list.
Use what you've done in the past as a blueprint for how not to behave.
Watch a few old episodes of Mission Impossible - realize that Batman is the IM team all rolled into one with batarangs and a blackbelt. Consider how you would defend against them.
Find out his secret ID! Those toys cost money. The car's parked somewhere. Take apart his life - break the man and the hero will falter.
Get some goons - set them up - watch how he interacts with them - study his methods - learn his weaknesses.
Destroy his reputation - Anyone can wear a cowl - a little tarnish and others in the city might do the job for you or at least be willing to help you do it. Even if this has no other effect it will draw him out.
Finally - put your worldly or otherworldly affairs in order - If he's really Batman you're likely to lose - This guy can take out Superman if he gets mad enough.

[Hermit]

Given a choice between Batman or the Punisher to root for, I'll go with Batman. Sorry

[Amnesia]

LOL
I do like the Lemming's approach, it has a certain dircetness one can savour.
So how do we squash the Bat with a giant penny?

I have just envisioned it, picture this if you will...
Our insitgator is someone who can enlarge items (turning a simple small penny into a 20' diameter Disk of Squishing.
Commite a minor crime to get the Bat's attention (preferably in a large open area). Wait for the Bat to eventually arrive. The Bat will normaly talk to you first, especially if you dont act violent-like (so don't act violent-like, if you can take the disadvante of pacefist do so). The Bats will probably ask for your surrender. You then respond by saying, that you can't quite make up your mind whether to go quietly or to put up some form of a struggle, but if the bat would be willing to toss a coin for you it would speed things up. The Bat is probably now very dubious (being a person of a suspicious mind), but before he does anything flip your penny over to the Bat, and say, heads I go queitly into the night, Tails you beat me up before I go quietly into the night. And generally encourage the bat to toss the coin up into the air. When he does, because you did ask him so nicley, you enlarge the little penny into the Disk of Squishing on its way down, and with your free hand you dive for cover.

Result one squished Bat. Return peny to normal size to leave coroner with a real conundrum. And walk away, with your hands in your pockets, whistling a little old ditty, you didn't see a thing.

(sigh)

Nice one Lemming.

[MarkusDark]

High powered rifle, nice scope, click click BANG.

"Look... I got a gun... in my room. I'll go up, get it, POW, it's done. We can make it a father and son thing..."

[Supreme]

If you really wanted to eliminate Batman, you'd just switch DC's marketing reports to reflect a sharp decline in sales.
;)

[Rage]

Originally posted by Supreme
If you really wanted to eliminate Batman, you'd just switch DC's marketing reports to reflect a sharp decline in sales.
;)
I've got some from the 90's!! just switch the name from Marvel to D.C they'll assume Spider is a typo...

[zornwil]

Originally posted by Amnesia
LOL
I do like the Lemming's approach, it has a certain dircetness one can savour.
So how do we squash the Bat with a giant penny?

I have just envisioned it, picture this if you will...
Our insitgator is someone who can enlarge items (turning a simple small penny into a 20' diameter Disk of Squishing.
Commite a minor crime to get the Bat's attention (preferably in a large open area). Wait for the Bat to eventually arrive. The Bat will normaly talk to you first, especially if you dont act violent-like (so don't act violent-like, if you can take the disadvante of pacefist do so). The Bats will probably ask for your surrender. You then respond by saying, that you can't quite make up your mind whether to go quietly or to put up some form of a struggle, but if the bat would be willing to toss a coin for you it would speed things up. The Bat is probably now very dubious (being a person of a suspicious mind), but before he does anything flip your penny over to the Bat, and say, heads I go queitly into the night, Tails you beat me up before I go quietly into the night. And generally encourage the bat to toss the coin up into the air. When he does, because you did ask him so nicley, you enlarge the little penny into the Disk of Squishing on its way down, and with your free hand you dive for cover.

Result one squished Bat. Return peny to normal size to leave coroner with a real conundrum. And walk away, with your hands in your pockets, whistling a little old ditty, you didn't see a thing.

(sigh)

Nice one Lemming.

Lemming was referring, I'm sure, to the attempt by Two-Face, or at least one, I think Two-Face did this 2 or 3 times but I'm familiar with just the Silver Age attempt. Two-Face flipped it, counting on the weight of Batman and Robin to make it land person-side down. Batman used a magnet if I recall to make the coin flip the "wrong" way, or he did some mojo with string tension, I can't quite recall now.

Whatever you do to go after Bats, go for brutal wide indirect (don't allow for pesky cover) area effects and skip the fancy NNDs (he always has life support against whatever-it-is).

[Rage]

Slowly kill all his "family members" and "loved ones" then for his oldest companion or whatever chain them up to a wall in a giant goth club with thousands of Crow wanna bes.
Let them have turns at beating him or cuttting him or what ever. Bat Man comes in. and is busy rescueing side kick whoever you come up behind him and take a o dcv AP shot to his head.

Problems: My way involves being evil
Upside: Its a great fall to evil piece that would make a comic run sell like hotcakes.

Mmmmmmm jhonny Cakes

[SuperPheemy]

Go through Bane's plan during "Knightfall". But instead of simply "breaking" the Bat, take your steroid-enhanced arms, and twist his head until it comes off.

Furthermore, instead of leaving the sidekicks around as "messages", insert a high velocity projectile into their frontal lobes, and incinerate the bodies.

[DocMan]

To kill a Batman...

First, he is clever. So you have to be simple.

Second, he sees the obvious, so you have to be clever.

Third, he learns as he fights someone, so you must make him fight someone else.

Ok. You'll need a couple other supervillans. Possibly supervillian teams. You hire them to aggrivate Batman in their own particular style. You can let them know that the goal is to kill him, but NEVER let them know who you are. You sit back and watch. Notice how he goes after them. Observe every detail.

Then, when he's firmly focused on them, and not you, you set up your flunkies for him to be taken down at the place of your choice. Watch carefully as he takes all of them down. Then shoot him THROUGH THE OPEN PART OF THE COWL with a high powered rifle. Don't go for the body shot.

Why does no one do this? Because they all want to bask in the glory of being the so-and-so that killed Batman. They don't bother to get on with the job. Batman is tough, but he can be surprised like anyone else. You just need to teach him what to expect, then hit him with the unexpected.

Doc

[Champsguy]

Okay. We haven't seen any character sheets, so I'm gonna have to be a little vague (don't know what your character's capabilities are).

The first answer, of course, is to talk to the other player. This Batman is a PC, so you can tell the other player "Hey, don't kill my character! Why don't we live in peace!" But if the guy is a first-class ass-face, that might not work.

-If you've got detective abilities, find out who he really is (or other information about him). Don't act on it yourself. Leak it to the criminal underground (not only will this take care of your Bat-problem, it'll weaken the crime syndicates, too).
-Fool him into thinking that he's already killed you. If your "dead", you should be able to fake it pretty easily. Once he thinks you're not active anymore, he'll leave you alone. That's when it's time for you to switch your costume and change your name.
-Attack his moral center. Find some questionable young punk (Lenny the Thug), trick him into thinking that some other thug has betrayed him to the cops, and get him to dress up like you as he goes to mete out his vengeance. ("Hey, Lenny. I heard that Mean Billy Joe ratted you out. You gonna take that? You should dress up like that Crow dude, and go shoot him! That way the cops won't be able to trace it back to you!") When Bat-dude shows up and offs Lenny (thinking it's you), it'll be murder. Not only will this play havok with his morals, it'll get the cops after him.
-Start a new superhero ID. Go to the papers and declare that you're Bat-dude's gay lover, and that he molested you as a child. This'll at least turn public opinion against him, and really piss off the other guy playing the character.

Combat strategies? Well, those are harder, since I don't know a lot about either characters' abilities. The first thing you need to make sure of is to see that the GM will allow you to kill another PC. Some won't (or at least will give the other PC every single benefit of the doubt in order to escape death).

If you've got decent defenses (better than Bat-dude), I'd suggest a constant, low-intensity attack. In other words, fight him in a burning building. If you lure him into a warehouse, make sure there's kerosene spilled all over the floor. Large barrels of flammable material help too. The plan works like this: Bat-dude follows you into the warehouse. During the fight, the kerosene is lit on fire. The smoke from that will provide some cover for you, and he may have trouble breathing (I'm assuming you have life support since you're undead). This will at least make him allocate his Utility Belt Multipower towards his gas-mask. That could keep him from using his Batarangs, if he built the Multipower on the cheap (has to keep the points in Life Support). The fire itself will be about 2D6 or so (until the building really starts burning good). If you can force him into the fire, all the better. You want to keep him in the building (and keep yourself conscious) long enough for the barrels to explode. That'll be a big attack, which should render you both unconscious (if not dying) and cause the building to collapse. Hopefully, the warehouse will be on the docks. That way, you'll both sink into the ocean. Undead don't drown, but Bat-dude does. You might even want to hire a couple of guys to pump shotgun shells into Bat's body after the explosion goes off.

Whenever we had trouble taking out a super-martial-artist, we cheated. Versus one guy, well, we found out his secret ID. Then we followed him to a coffee shop. Then we... sort of... slipped some Ex-Lax into his drink when he wasn't looking. Fifteen minutes later, he was in the bathroom. That's when we kicked in the stall door and blasted him (he was at 0 DCV). Another time, we hijacked a log-truck and drove it through the guy's house, in an attempt to hit him with a larger-than-room-sized area effect attack. We jumped off the truck immediately before impact, and ran into the wreckage to beat on his bleeding body. We were quite embarrassed to find that he wasn't home at the time.

I recommend large, environmental, area effect attacks. Things like propane tanks and fuel trucks blow up good, and better yet, the don't cost points. :D

[TheEmerged]

Batman has proven to have significant willpower, so I doubt a mental attack is the way to go.

/humor on

Batman has three weaknesses.

First and in my opinion most useful of these is his paranoia. While difficult, the Thesues Principle dictates that an enemy's greatest strength is also his greatest weakness. You must find a way to turn his tendency to (over)prepare for eventualities against him. Only thing that comes to mind right now is the fact that the cure for most nerve agents are almost as dangerous as the agents themselves...

Another example of the Thesues Principle in action involves his senses. Batman has senses that border on superheroic -- meaning he may overdepend on them. This has been used against him before (Anarky during his limited series did this to great effect). Further, it's important to remember that while Batman's sense are accurate they are not any faster than a normal human's; in my not-so-humble opinion, outside of comic-book-logic Batman wouldn't stand a chance against Superman or The Flash because of this factor. A Superman or Flash that was commited to taking Batman out would be able to do so with little problem.

The third weakness is more subtle, but nonetheless a factor. Given his instability, Batman may be more vulnerable to *emotional* attacks. In particular, I've always how effective a pleasure-based attack would be against him if used by a committed enemy; remember, you only need to delay him for a second or two so that you can follow the attack up with a bullet.

[Patriot]

Easy, you dont, he is a hero, and if hes coming after you you must have Jacked something up in a major way!

[Gary]

How much collateral damage are you willing to accept to get rid of Batman?

[Stormraven]

"Nuke the entire city from orbit. It's the only way to be sure."

[dbsousa]

Don't kill him, humiliate him...
Agree to meet with him "to finish this once and for all" in an abandoned warehouse of his choice. Arrive with Geraldo Rivera, a camera crew and an audience. Introduce him to America, tell him that you are considered a living being by the courts, and that SOB (Slightly Occult Batman) would be committing a capital crime by killing him. However, If you can't convince him that you don't deserve to die, you won't stand in his way. Provided, of course, that he do it on live television.

If he leaves, conduct your smear campaign on live TV. tell America that it is now clear to you that SOB meant to kill you secretly, and that "Evil dies in the light of exposure".

If he tries to kill you then and there, try to fight to a stalemate until the cops show up, and then fall down "dead" Let him be the hunted hero for a change.

If he tries to debate you, let him have it. Make your moral case in front of America. I don't know the specifics of your case, but argue it on SOB's terms, not your own moral justification. At the end of the speech, as the cops are showing up, let him make his decision. If he decides to kill you, fall down "dead" at the first blow. Simulate death until you get to the morgue, and slip off into the night.

What? You can't simulate death? then just shoot him in the head...

[RevHooligan]

A better plan is to burn your costume, sew yourself a new one, buy some different gadgets and fight crime under a new name. "Martin who? I'm the Dark Ferret!"

It'll save the embarassment of another Bat-beating.

[Vondy]

I'd buy DC.

[Thirdbase]

Originally posted by Stormraven
"Nuke the entire city from orbit. It's the only way to be sure."

I have to agree, but first make sure Bats is in the city, and second make sure that you are not. Then let the GLOW begin.

[Super Squirrel]

Originally posted by Col. Orange
Another player is a slightly occult Batman: Hates guns, won't kill, utility belt, access to government/police computers etc. 350pts and shed loads of experience.
First, you need to outline his weeknesses to get you what you want. He is hunting you. That means you have an advantage (yes an advantage). He has that utility belt which if lost cuts him off. He also depends on his access quite a bit.

Second, you need to take advantage of the player's weaknesses. Batman makes giant leaps of conclusion and can piece together the most complex connections like he was Sherlock Holmes. I doubt the player can do that.

The first thing I would do is get him guessing. Threaten some of his contacts, get people to spread false sightings. Get him chasing lots of red herrings. If possible, try and figure out where his base is while this is happening. Try to figure out what other advantages do you have over him. Are you faster than him? Are you stronger than him? etc.

I mean, if you have more BODY and defenses than him, why not just get a nice bomb set up and pray that it does enough to kill him but not you. Hire someone to come in after it goes off and then save you or finish off him. You just need to make sure you know what you are better at than he is.

[Tugun Master]

All (most of) you guys can agree upon are bullets?

Sheez... where's the diabolical plans? At least the Giant penny crushing trick had the Batman style to it.

Batman, or any decent clone thereof, deserves something special to see them off.

Here's a good way that will require quite a lot of resources/GM greasing, but is possibly the most complex and yet effective methods of taking out the Bat. Technically you won't even have to even think about doing him harm...

1/Find out who he is.
2/Look into what must have caused him to become who he is today.
3/Find/Build/Commission a Time Machine.
4/Use said Time Machine to go back to the fateful night that made the "Wayne" family a "Wayne Singular" and park up where the family are due to go to get mugged.
5/Stop them from dying. Assign bodyguard types to watch over them. To keep them alive and well, thus preventing the events that transform young "Wayne" into the badass crime fighter he is today. That way he grows up to be some foppish playboy millionaire and not the brooding vigilante that's out to get you.

The irony? By protecting your present day enemy in the future, you're Killing as you know him in the present. And all without so much as laying a violent finger on him or his loved ones.

MuhuHAHAHA...!!!

[Rage]

Originally posted by Champsguy
Okay. We haven't seen any character sheets, so I'm gonna have to be a little vague (don't know what your character's capabilities are).

The first answer, of course, is to talk to the other player. This Batman is a PC, so you can tell the other player "Hey, don't kill my character! Why don't we live in peace!" But if the guy is a first-class ass-face, that might not work.

-If you've got detective abilities, find out who he really is (or other information about him). Don't act on it yourself. Leak it to the criminal underground (not only will this take care of your Bat-problem, it'll weaken the crime syndicates, too).
-Fool him into thinking that he's already killed you. If your "dead", you should be able to fake it pretty easily. Once he thinks you're not active anymore, he'll leave you alone. That's when it's time for you to switch your costume and change your name.
-Attack his moral center. Find some questionable young punk (Lenny the Thug), trick him into thinking that some other thug has betrayed him to the cops, and get him to dress up like you as he goes to mete out his vengeance. ("Hey, Lenny. I heard that Mean Billy Joe ratted you out. You gonna take that? You should dress up like that Crow dude, and go shoot him! That way the cops won't be able to trace it back to you!") When Bat-dude shows up and offs Lenny (thinking it's you), it'll be murder. Not only will this play havok with his morals, it'll get the cops after him.
-Start a new superhero ID. Go to the papers and declare that you're Bat-dude's gay lover, and that he molested you as a child. This'll at least turn public opinion against him, and really piss off the other guy playing the character.

Combat strategies? Well, those are harder, since I don't know a lot about either characters' abilities. The first thing you need to make sure of is to see that the GM will allow you to kill another PC. Some won't (or at least will give the other PC every single benefit of the doubt in order to escape death).

If you've got decent defenses (better than Bat-dude), I'd suggest a constant, low-intensity attack. In other words, fight him in a burning building. If you lure him into a warehouse, make sure there's kerosene spilled all over the floor. Large barrels of flammable material help too. The plan works like this: Bat-dude follows you into the warehouse. During the fight, the kerosene is lit on fire. The smoke from that will provide some cover for you, and he may have trouble breathing (I'm assuming you have life support since you're undead). This will at least make him allocate his Utility Belt Multipower towards his gas-mask. That could keep him from using his Batarangs, if he built the Multipower on the cheap (has to keep the points in Life Support). The fire itself will be about 2D6 or so (until the building really starts burning good). If you can force him into the fire, all the better. You want to keep him in the building (and keep yourself conscious) long enough for the barrels to explode. That'll be a big attack, which should render you both unconscious (if not dying) and cause the building to collapse. Hopefully, the warehouse will be on the docks. That way, you'll both sink into the ocean. Undead don't drown, but Bat-dude does. You might even want to hire a couple of guys to pump shotgun shells into Bat's body after the explosion goes off.

Whenever we had trouble taking out a super-martial-artist, we cheated. Versus one guy, well, we found out his secret ID. Then we followed him to a coffee shop. Then we... sort of... slipped some Ex-Lax into his drink when he wasn't looking. Fifteen minutes later, he was in the bathroom. That's when we kicked in the stall door and blasted him (he was at 0 DCV). Another time, we hijacked a log-truck and drove it through the guy's house, in an attempt to hit him with a larger-than-room-sized area effect attack. We jumped off the truck immediately before impact, and ran into the wreckage to beat on his bleeding body. We were quite embarrassed to find that he wasn't home at the time.

I recommend large, environmental, area effect attacks. Things like propane tanks and fuel trucks blow up good, and better yet, the don't cost points. :D

Man thats almost perfect.
Almost but there is a flaw: Kero needs a wick to light so floor covering wouldn't work. I suggest petrol (but the vapors burn to fast. if its not a prob just use that.) or perhaps Turpentine but there is the tell tale smell. So you go and get pure stuff from an oil refinery with out the tainting "warning" smell.

The way I usually beat MA's: Area affect KA followed by a brick (either an actual brick or the building utensil) to the face repeatedly.

[Col. Orange]

STATS?

Martin 25 STR, 23 DEX, 23 CON, 18 BOD
S.O.B. 20? STR, 20 DEX, 20 CON, 14? BOD

A lot of Martin’s equipment has been confiscated. Down to a pair of Desert Eagles (AP in one, Plastic in other), a Billy Club, Shades (~5 Flash DEF).
S.O.B. has used Bolas (5 DEF, 4?BOD), Flash grenades, Explosives (for Tunnelling), razor disks (1?D6 RKA AF3), Discus (10?D6 EB vs. PD)

Martin has 10/10 Combat Luck, S.O.B. has about the same with Armour (14- activation)

Martin has basic Combat Training, S.O.B. has fair amount o’ Martial.

Martin has 4 levels w/Pistols, S.O.B. has 3+ Overall levels an’ a coupla die o’ Luck.

Martin has very basic detective skills (used to be a cop), S.O.B. has more than the F.B.I. and can spot a tail at a hundred yards (he’s very good).


A LITTLE HISTORY (for those curious as to the morals involved)

Martin’s brother Patrick pays him a visit. He’s worried. Martin takes him to a bar and the two catch up – but brother sill won’t say what’s on his mind. Several hours later the pair stagger out to get a cab home. BOOM. Some blonde teeny bopper shoots first Patrick then Martin. She’s a sixteen, slim built girl using Desert Eagles without any discernable effort.
Shadowlands. Patrick’s spirit quickly succumbs to Oblivion – complete cessation of existence. Martin is found buy someone recently killed. This anonymous fella tells him the people who killed him are going after this superhero team. Martin makes a pact with his Shadow (think of it as all the negative aspects of your personality made manifest). Martin gets to inhabit his old body, his Shadow gets Patrick’s.
Martin informs team, follows them around, helps them with some detective work. Girl turns out to be called Dauntain, and she’s going around killing Supernaturals (Vampires, Daemons, Ghosts, Magi, Elementals, Fae spirits… she’s a regular Buffy). Lot of Supernaturals on the team.
Martin gets info on her by intimidating the owner of an occult book shop (turns out she’s also a contact of S.O.B.). Shop owner rings, tells Martin that Dauntain is there. Martin goes and it’s a trap. Dauntain takes out Martin’s spirit guide (his Crow) and plugs Martin in chest again. S.O.B. turns up and entangles stunned Martin, giving Dauntain the phase she needs to get out of line of sight (she’s got a pesky Batman style Stealth-escape Teleport). S.O.B. beats holy crap outta Martin despite Martin’s request he check his gun. S.O.B. checks after Martin unconscious – plastic rounds.
Martin wakes. He’s on top of team’s building and ultra good mystic there and her senses say soulless undead. She and S.O.B. go to kill, Martin calls down storm o’ crows (a la Crow 2). She and S.O.B. escape.
Martin goes to campaign villain (NCI/behind the scenes type, no evidence of evildoing) and asks if he knows where S.O.B. lives. No luck.
Somewhere along the way a young mutant informs Martin of a crack house supplying to the local area. Martin, a little angry at this point, goes in guns blazing, goes out house ablaze. By chance, team find out about the attack and find out that Martin had been told of it’s location prior (chasing leads from a different case).
Martin arrested (no struggle). Martin goes to jail. Martin’s lawyer wins appeal a while later.
Martin goes back to occult store to retrieve his bike – knows it could be a trap but wants to draw Dauntain out. Martin walks along with bike. Bike explodes. S.O.B. lays into unconscious dead body, then takes it to same ultra good mystic to make sure he’s dead. Martin’s eyes snap open, “Of COURSE I’m dead.”
Cue beatings. Martin wakes up. Asks why he’s about to be killed. Intimidation, murder… vigilantism… um.
“So ultra good CvK girl up for this?” I ask GM.
“She’s hunted vampires. She can destroy undead.”
“Vampires have no choice but to kill. Destroying them is protecting life. Martin can choose not to kill so she can’t really justify destroying him, and he’s already faced regular justice for his crimes.”
Uninvolved player chimes in, “So, she’ll kill people who kill because they absolutely have to, but will leave people alone who kill because they want to?”
“If you and me killed it’d be because we were insane or we chose to – with Code vs. Killing someone couldn’t kill either of us though. Someone who can only survive off the death of others though, can’t be rehabilitated. She’s fought people on the street who walk around with Uzis and not destroyed them. Why? Because they can choose not to kill.”
After mystic removes S.O.B.s bugs from Martin, he leaves.


My plans? Ignore S.O.B. for the moment. I can’t risk Dauntain getting away with everything because Martin gets himself perished in a war with S.O.B., though tactics for one may work against the other.
Basically, I think I’ve got to give them an opportunity to hunt me. Put word on the street that I’m gonna hit a certain mob enforcer/destroy another crack house/obtain new weaponry from X/find some occult way of dealing with her from Y then have that location rigged (either with plastique or Villians or Heroes).
If Dauntain is contained (read: pumped for information and disposed of) I’ll switch to S.O.B. I do have a problem with PC death though. If plan panned out I might just break his legs and a couple of ribs – but it’s a damn big IF (player knows what he’s doing).

(Shrugs)

[Mayday]

I had to take down Batman once. Failed once. Draw the second. Fighting Bats, how cool a plotline it is....!

I like complicated plots and so all I can think to do is come up with the hugest, most complex plot ever designed to keep him always on the move. Wear him out with fatigue, you're undead. Have you considered the benefits of a citywide riot?

Start dismantling his contacts, his allies (if any). Fake HIS death and let the other supervillains add to the chaos by coming out to play. Hire a hot hacker to dream up more trouble.

Have multiple goals so that there IS no one thing for him to figure out. Make a chart with 100 slots full of random things you can do. Its random, you're going to need that.

Good luck. Seriously. If hes a well played Batman, you're going to lose.

[mrswing]

How to take out Batman?

Have the Flash vibrate through him at maximum speed - forget preparation, before anything could possibly go off the Flash has probably crossed the globe three or four times.
Result : Batman explodes, being microwaved to death in less than the blink of an eye.
Preparation Shmeparation : anyone of the DC big guns would squish Batman to a pulp if it ever came to a REAL confrontation.

[death tribble]

It would be very expensive and technically I am the wrong sort of sex to interest Bruce Wayne. Although setting things up as a business dinner to discuss matters should work.....

Oh you meant, how would you beat Batman ?

Ok. Nothing to see here, move along.

[Talon]

Originally posted by MarkusDark
"Look... I got a gun... in my room. I'll go up, get it, POW, it's done. We can make it a father and son thing..."

Sshh!

This does sound like there are player vs. player overtones to the conflict...if there are, resolve them out of game rather than attacking his PC. If not, read on...

Being the patient, serve it cold sort, I would start by giving them absolutely no reason to dislike or oppose you. Stop doing the things they don't like -- be a pinnacle of society, act selfless, etc. Don't suck up to them, just act in a way they would approve of. If you talk to them, say something about having seen the error of your ways; if your actions caused that much conflict between people who should be fighting together, then clearly your actions were wrong.

Then, once they trust you, it should be no problem at all to catch the SOB out of combat and drop a cap or two in him. :)

[TheTemplar]

Well, if he's REALLY being played as a Batman dupe, fake the death of an innocent bystander and make Bats think he did it. That should set off enough of a Psych Lim bomb that he wouldn't be able to do a blessed thing for at least a turn or so. More than enough time for the Giant Penny attack to be put in play. ;)


-T

[TaxiMan]

So PC takes on PC. Lots of interpersonal stuff here, but I'll ignore that. (talk to the player is good advice.)

Probably the nuke is your best bet, but what GM is going to let you have it? And the unstoppable solution isn't any fun - you're dead already, so just wait about 100 years & he'll be gone. Besides, you've got things to do, and they need doing now! (you're a tortured soul, anyone tell you that?)

Here's the plan. Set yourself up to look like the bad guy. Shouldn't be hard! Say a bunch of demons announce they'll attack an orphanage, and you are there seen going in with them. The pre-announcement gives enough time for the news media to film the whole thing, and S.O.B. gets there too. Just, a little after you. He beats you up again and stops the demons - what a hero! There were even internal video cameras catching the action! Too bad a couple of orphans died, but most were saved!

Later review of the internal video tapes show you were fighting the demons. You personally saved a dozen. You were effectively dealing with the demons, until S.O.B. showed up and wrecked the whole thing. While he was pounding on you, the demons had free rein and killed the kids.

Of course, you prearranged all this with the demons. You picked the site, knew the cameras were working, choreographed the entire thing. You knew how to stop the demons, or they all take dives for your attacks. They are instructed to be scary - until S.O.B. shows up. THEN, they kill everyone they can.

Assuming your culpability never is exposed, the media and S.O.B.'s guilt will take care of the rest.

[Talon]

The problem with all these "set Batman up" plans is that this Batman has better skills (and apparently contacts) than the PC in question. Batman is very likely to see through the plan or even find out about it before it can be pulled off.

To truly get the character, you need to neutralize his skills as well as his powers. This probably means the PC is on his own -- any attempt to use outside agencies risks detection by Batman's contacts and/or skills.

[Tamashii2000]

Simple: Small Tatical Nuke.

[Tech]

The question seems of how you would take Batman out seems muddy in it's presentation. Do you mean the GM? In that case, Batman will lose because as GM, you can think of dozens of ways to bump him off. You'll be playing him as GM anyways.
Bump him off as a player? Batman doesn't come across as looking for fights with other heroes, in my opinion. Still, it could happen, in which case you better be ready for a jail cell after he leaves you looking stupid in front of the police, or at least with bruises after he wins (if Batman has been correctly built point-wise.) I don't see how to answer the question as put forth here.

[DocMan]

Tech, apparently you haven't been reading the thread. Allow me to 'splain. No, there is to much. Allow me to sum up.

Person asking question is a player who has a PC who happens to be an Undead Hero. "Batman" target in question is another PC playing a Batman clone who has decided (in character) that Undead are inherently evil. So "Batman" has taken it upon himself to destroy Undead Hero, despite the fact they are both hero PC's and "Batman" has a code against killing (living people). There have been two fights so far. At best, it came out as a draw. Undead Hero is looking for an edge.

Perhaps making "Batman" undead so he'll feel compelled to kill himself?

Doc

[Tech]

DocMan, thanks! You clarified it very easily. I was reading the thread here and there, I admit and got confused.

[BlackSword]

Hope that he slips on the puddle that just formed at your feet when he does his appear out of the night stunt?

The best bet is to get him out of 'Gotham' where he knows the area and has at least a modicum of support from the police and trust from the people. Lay clues to some other city get him off his home turf and surprise someplace where he doesn't have the home field advantage.

The problem with the excuse 'the law said I killing those drug dealers was okay so Batman has to leave me alone' is the wrong mentaility. Batman expects heroes to act to a much stricter code then non-superheroes. At the very least Batman would want any vigilante who kills out of his city, since destroying undead isn't against his code of conduct I don't imagine he would mind the world a better place without an undead killer.

On the other hand there are examples of Batman taking not so good heroes into his fold and trying to reform them (Azrael after letting someone die as Az-bat, Huntress). The other PC should be reminded of this and the undead PC should make some way of trying to reform (ie stop torching drug adicts). In addition if psuedo-Bats has the same aversion to guns as real-Bats then there is that little hurdle to jump over. This is assuming that you are supposed to form some super-team at some point.

I believe someone has already metioned Bane, and he is the only villain to beat Batman. He fatigued Batman until he could hardly walk, Batman is only human, by releasing villains and then confronted Batman at the very end. The problem is that only real way to defeat Batman is to be a villain.

Reading through the backstory I think the Batman PC is playing him a little too much to the hilt, but really never breaks with what Batman would do. If someone is shooting guns he would beat them to unconciousness then ask questions like, are the bullets plastic. 'Hero' burns down a crack house and kills people, its time to put the smack down.

[Champsguy]

Originally posted by BlackSword
Hope that he slips on the puddle that just formed at your feet when he does his appear out of the night stunt?

The best bet is to get him out of 'Gotham' where he knows the area and has at least a modicum of support from the police and trust from the people. Lay clues to some other city get him off his home turf and surprise someplace where he doesn't have the home field advantage.

The problem with the excuse 'the law said I killing those drug dealers was okay so Batman has to leave me alone' is the wrong mentaility. Batman expects heroes to act to a much stricter code then non-superheroes. At the very least Batman would want any vigilante who kills out of his city, since destroying undead isn't against his code of conduct I don't imagine he would mind the world a better place without an undead killer.

On the other hand there are examples of Batman taking not so good heroes into his fold and trying to reform them (Azrael after letting someone die as Az-bat, Huntress). The other PC should be reminded of this and the undead PC should make some way of trying to reform (ie stop torching drug adicts). In addition if psuedo-Bats has the same aversion to guns as real-Bats then there is that little hurdle to jump over. This is assuming that you are supposed to form some super-team at some point.

I believe someone has already metioned Bane, and he is the only villain to beat Batman. He fatigued Batman until he could hardly walk, Batman is only human, by releasing villains and then confronted Batman at the very end. The problem is that only real way to defeat Batman is to be a villain.

Reading through the backstory I think the Batman PC is playing him a little too much to the hilt, but really never breaks with what Batman would do. If someone is shooting guns he would beat them to unconciousness then ask questions like, are the bullets plastic. 'Hero' burns down a crack house and kills people, its time to put the smack down.

NO!!!

Guys, listen closely.

It's not Batman.
It's not Batman.
It's not Batman.
It's not Batman.
It's not Batman.
It's not Batman.
It's not Batman.
It's not Batman.
It's not Batman.
It's not Batman.
It's not Batman.
It's not Batman.
It's not Batman.
It's not Batman.
It's not Batman.
It's not Batman.
It's not Batman.
It's not Batman.
It's not Batman.
It's not Batman.
It's not Batman.
It's not Batman.
It's not Batman.
It's not Batman.
It's not Batman.
It's not Batman.
It's not Batman.
It's not Batman.
It's not Batman.
It's not Batman.
It's not Batman.
It's not Batman.
It's not Batman.
It's not Batman.
It's not Batman.
It's not Batman.
It's not Batman.
It's not Batman.
It's not Batman.
It's not Batman.
It's not Batman.
It's not Batman.
It's not Batman.
It's not Batman.
It's not Batman.

It's a Batman clone. The guy has a different character who's patterned himself after Batman. These suggestions like "anally rape Alfred" just don't work because IT'S NOT BATMAN.

Hope that helps. :)

[BoloOfEarth]

So I guess "Kidnap Robin" is completely out of the question?

[BoloOfEarth]

Originally posted by DocMan
Allow me to 'splain. No, there is to much. Allow me to sum up.



Accuse him of killing your father, and tell him to prepare to die.

[Argus]

1. Remove his ability to see.
Spotlights, Flares, Fog Machine.
2. Remove his ability to move.
Tar, Ice floors, Water, Bubble-gum.
3. Make him use up his gadgets.
Lots of Thugs, Lot’s of minor traps. Saving a group of people.
4. Hit him with Area of Affect weapons.
Bombs, Rockets, Vat of Acid.
5. Never get into Hand to Hand Combat with him.
Stinger Missiles, Time delayed bombs, Lots of explosions.
6. Team up with others that don’t like him.
He has hunters. He has enemies.

As a Last chance,

Blast off and Nuke him from Space.
It’s the only way to be sure.


A.

[assault]

Well, because it's a player versus player thing, you should, of course, try to sort it out between you, preferably in front of the GM.

Failing that:
1: Find out his secret ID.
2: Expose it.

Alternatively:
1: Find out his secret ID.
2: Shoot him in the head when he isn't in costume. Presumably, this means he isn't wearing armour...

Incidentally, if you are choosing the second option, ensure that you leave evidence proving that the "hero" you are at war with is, in fact, the person that you just shot. That way, if he survives, his trouble is only just beginning.

Of course, if your GM is nasty, you may have just shot some innocent...

Well, that's your problem.

Alan

[Spectrum]

To take take him out, go with snipers on every rooftop, you can never have enough snipers. If that fails, nuke the city (I know it's been said already but c'mon, it has potential) And if by some miracle he lives, well you could always cut the breakline on his car (assuming he has one).

[gewing]

JUst reading this...
WHy did a buffy kill 2 apparently normal men, one a cop or ex-cop????

WHy is the SOB assisting her?




Originally posted by Col. Orange
[BSNIP
A LITTLE HISTORY (for those curious as to the morals involved)

Martin’s brother Patrick pays him a visit. He’s worried. Martin takes him to a bar and the two catch up – but brother sill won’t say what’s on his mind. Several hours later the pair stagger out to get a cab home. BOOM. Some blonde teeny ber shoots first Patrick then Martin.
(Shrugs) [/B]

[Pattern Ghost]

Hmm... I've been reading along, and it seems more like player to player animosity than character driven. Then again, this group might enjoy a more adversarial approach, which can be fun every now and then.

[Hermit]

I'm reminded of a quote from A Knight's Tale
"How would you beat him?"
"me? With a stick, while he slept...."
:D

[RevHooligan]

A Knight's Tale? You quoted A Knight's Tale? Seriously, I'll send you a Blockbuster Gift Card If you promise to rent a David Lean film or something. Knight's Tale! Meh.

[Col. Orange]

Originally posted by gewing
JUst reading this...
WHy did a buffy kill 2 apparently normal men, one a cop or ex-cop????

WHy is the SOB assisting her?

Clarification 1: Dauntain isn't Buffy. The Buffy label is just a good way of explaining her power level (25-30 STR, 26 DEX) and goal (destroy the supernatural). She doesn't have Buffy's problem with using guns (two Desert Eagles) or with killing (though that could be eggs 'n' omlettes). On the surface she's doing a good thing - killing vampires and zombies etc. - it might just be that her aim's a little blurry.
Why she killed Patrick (a marine) and Martin (a cop) is still a mystery (which, truth be told, is why I was going after her with plastic bullets and club rather than AP rounds and knives). The fact that Patrick seemed on edge when he turned up leads Martin to believe Patrick had either done something or knew something he shouldn't.
Martin may have been killed just to make sure she'd killed the right twin.

Clarification 2: SoB wasn't assisting Dauntain, he was trying to get both of us. He went for Martin first because Martin had leant on someone who was (unbeknownst to me at the time) a contact of SoB.

Clarification 3: SoB has a problem with Martin, SoB's player does not have a problem with me. Known the guy since I was 16 - good chap, smart, great forward planner (though tries to manipulate GMs).

Clarification 4: Martin's never killed anyone but those who've profited from the drug trade. People who've ruined the lives of not only the people they sell to, but the lives of the addicts families and friends too.
He's not a psychopath AND WOULD NEVER NUKE THE CITY! :D


Game's been paused for a while, though I've been told Martin never made it out of that basement.


State of play:
Martin tied to a chair with 5 DEF, Transparent Bolas. NO weapons of any kind.
Dryad (high DEX fem. Mystic) now against Martin's destruction stands next to him.
SoB (long time ally of Dryad (Read: VERY aware of her disads)) stands in front of the only exit.
Bobba Fett stands next to SoB (NOTE: there is no bounty on Martin and though Fett and SoB have co-operated in the past, there is an atmosphere between them).

[Stargazer]

do like bane...hes the only one that actualy brought batman down for good...and for a long time...


otherwise....u just cant beat bats....hes the greatest

[Rage]

Originally posted by Stargazer
do like bane...hes the only one that actualy brought batman down for good...and for a long time...


otherwise....u just cant beat bats....hes the greatest

To use a quote (No not FREAKING KNIGHTS TALE what the freaks wrong with you?)

"NO!!!

Guys, listen closely.

It's not Batman.
It's not Batman.
It's not Batman.
It's not Batman.
It's not Batman.
It's not Batman.
It's not Batman.
It's not Batman.
It's not Batman.
It's not Batman.
It's not Batman.
It's not Batman.
It's not Batman.
It's not Batman.
It's not Batman.
It's not Batman.
It's not Batman.
It's not Batman.
It's not Batman.
It's not Batman.
It's not Batman.
It's not Batman.
It's not Batman.
It's not Batman.
It's not Batman.
It's not Batman.
It's not Batman.
It's not Batman.
It's not Batman.
It's not Batman.
It's not Batman.
It's not Batman.
It's not Batman.
It's not Batman.
It's not Batman.
It's not Batman.
It's not Batman.
It's not Batman.
It's not Batman.
It's not Batman.
It's not Batman.
It's not Batman.
It's not Batman.
It's not Batman.
It's not Batman."

[Hermit]

Originally posted by RevHooligan
A Knight's Tale? You quoted A Knight's Tale? Seriously, I'll send you a Blockbuster Gift Card If you promise to rent a David Lean film or something. Knight's Tale! Meh.

Fortunately, my heritage as an American means I don't have to get sarcasm unless I want to. :p


Originally posted by Rage
To use a quote (No not FREAKING KNIGHTS TALE what the freaks wrong with you?)


More than you can ever imagine.
:)

So... you're saying it's not Batman?


*Heads for the hills*

[gewing]

Do you mean we're not talking about the Val Kilmer version?

RUN!!!


Originally posted by Hermit
Fortunately, my heritage as an American means I don't have to get sarcasm unless I want to. :p



More than you can ever imagine.
:)

So... you're saying it's not Batman?


*Heads for the hills*

[Spectrum]

Originally posted by gewing
Do you mean we're not talking about the Val Kilmer version?

RUN!!!

Maybe it's the George Clooney one.

Uh-oh...... HEY WAIT FOR ME!!
*leaves a dust cloud in my likeness*